we react to your most unhinged book opinions - talk lit with us vol 1

welcome to our inaugural talk lit with us episode! this episode we asked you for your controversial opinions, hot takes or just something you needed to get off your chest and boy, did you deliver. in this episode we weigh in on colleen hoover and it ends with us, beyonce, suzanne collins’ new novel, red, white and royal blue, heartstopper, a little life and midnight sun.

spoilers and your hot take time stamps:

1:26 - people changed their tune about it ends with us movie when the trailer dropped
12:03 - colleen hoover is for women who don't read
17:15 - beyonce is overrated?
22:12 - red, white and royal blue is the worst book
25:35 - heartstopper is the second-worst book
29:42 - sunrise on the reaping (the ballad of songbirds and snakes and hunger games spoilers)
33:25 - gone girl is one of the most boring books ever
34:38 - a little life deserves no hype and serves no purpose but trauma
40:18 - midnight sun = best twilight book

articles mentioned:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/jan/09/hanya-yanagihara-to-paradise-interview-a-little-life

https://www.vulture.com/article/hanya-yanagihara-review.html



please note: this episode was recorded prior to the release of the it ends with us movie and the ensuing justin baldoni and blake lively movie promotion discourse. 

if you, or anyone you know are experiencing domestic violence, you can contact 1800 RESPECT

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Transcript

Bridget 0:01

Hello and welcome to a Talk Lit Get Hit bonus chapter. The little book chats in between the big ones. We'll talk about reading, authors, and have discussions with people who, like us, can't shut up about books. We might get sidetracked and talk about literally anything else, but this is a bonus chapter we wrote just for you.

Laura 0:20

Hello and welcome to an extra special Talk Lit Get Hit bonus chapter. You're joined by TalkLit Get Hit hosts Bridget and Laura. Hello, Bridget. Hello Laura. I was like such an idiot doing that. Me too. I wish I'd never got it started. This episode we are talking lit and shit with you. We put a call out on Instagram for your hot takes, unpopular opinions, etc., and the results were truly smoldering. There are some real stinkers in this mix. We were power through.

Bridget 0:53

If we're cancelled, we're cancelled. We have to remember these are not our opinions. I mean they might be our opinions, but originally they were not our opinions. You smelt it, you dealt with it. Some of these opinions are about books, some of them are about other things. But if we're talking about books, if we're talking about movies, whatever we're gonna talk about, we're probably going to spoil. We have put timestamps and content descriptors in the show notes. If there's something you want to avoid, check out the show notes and plan your journey accordingly.

Laura 1:24

We're starting off strong with not one but two Colleen Hoover adjacent hot takes. The people are hungry for Ms. Hoover. They are hungry for our assessments. They're hungry for that. There's violence in the air. Okay, onward, let's go. Um I have only read one. I've read Verity, and I did not know it was a Colleen Hoover book when I read it. Sure. Um you shut your mouth. You just have the big letters on the front of the book. Maybe I didn't know who Colleen Hoover was. I feel like I read it slightly pre-my involvement in book talk, so I just didn't know the woman that she is.

Bridget 2:03

Yeah, I've read Verity too, and I don't know if I really knew much about the Colleen Hoover sphere at the time. I don't know why I read it. I think Maddie might have read it and she was like, Oh, you should read this, see what you think. I did not think much, neither. I was a bit spooked, but that's not surprising. It wasn't really that scary. I can't really remember the plot.

Laura 2:23

I just remember there being so many fake out endings or like that that's not all. Well, actually. Dad dot yeah. I remember a boat ramp or something. A jetty. I don't know. That's really it. I remember a man in his room on a laptop. Like a lot of typing. Maybe they were authors. Ghostwriters.

Bridget 2:42

Ghost Rider, I think. Wasn't she an author? Yeah. Verity? Is that her name? Anyway, this the opinion that we're responding to isn't even about Verity.

Laura 2:52

Yeah. So let's let's not get wrapped up in semantics.

Bridget 2:55

Especially about a book we can't even remember. Um, so the opinion from Anonymous, everyone seemed to change their minds on It Ends With Us as soon as the trailer came out. Now, as we have established, neither of us have read It Ends With Us, but I mean I have seen the controversy about this. I have seen that it is a book that has themes of domestic violence and other kinds of abuse. According to Colleen Hoover, it was written with the intention of advocating for domestic violence victims. I think when she was growing up, she was living in a domestic violence situation. And so maybe she's writing from personal experience. But then I do remember in early 2023 it was announced and then quickly unannounced and removed from the shelves, and it ends with us colouring book.

Laura 3:46

I remember this too.

Bridget 3:47

What a bizarre choice. I feel like a colouring book is not a great business plan in the best of times, but when it's a book about domestic violence, I mean it's weird as well because that's only last year.

Laura 4:00

It's not like it was in peak colouring book therapy mania. Yeah, I don't understand the logic there. Was it like colour your trauma away or I don't know.

Bridget 4:10

I just think it's so interesting how it obviously had to go through quite a lot of people to be approved and announced on Instagram. And no one was like, hang on a minute. Something's off with this. Have you seen anybody change their opinion on the book since the trailer came out? Because I feel like I don't see much Colleen Hoover content anymore.

Laura 4:30

I saw a fair bit of criticism when those set photos leaked. And the first was that Blake Lively, who's going to be playing Lily, was too old for the role. Um so according to the Colleen Hoover fandom wiki, the character of Lily is 23 at the beginning of it ends with us, and about 25 or 26 at the end of it. So I don't really think that's a huge stretch. I mean, maybe 23, but like movie magic happens all the time. Characters get aged down incredibly well. And then the other main beef that I was seeing was to do with her outfits. Yeah, that's what I remember seeing. There was one picture in particular where Blake Lively was wearing these kind of like double pants, like fake double pants, like as though she had two pairs, like sort of boxes and then pants like around her hips. And I mean it was a pretty quirky outfit. She had some pretty, like, I think like metallic pointy boots. And I saw all of these fans losing their tiny minds. I should say losing their minds, respectfully. And then I also saw a few people clapping back saying this is actually how she's described in the book. She's described as being kind of like steampunk. In the Colleen Hoover wiki, it describes Lily as red hair and pretty red lips, and that is all the information it has available for her. I don't know how fleshed out this is, but from an outsider perspective, if that's all the information you have about your character, I think they're well within their rights to give her two pairs of pants at once if they'd like to.

Bridget 6:02

I mean, if they're gonna start getting upset about silly things, how about we get upset about the fact that her name is Lily Bloom and she opens a flout shop? That is criminal. I mean, I only know that from the trailer, but Lily Bloom, come on. Also, the man is named Rile. I did not know Ryle was a name. She made it up. Do you know anybody called Ryle?

Laura 6:23

It is it really Ryle or is it Riley with weird? No, it is Ryle, because I've seen the trailer.

Bridget 6:27

In the trailer, I'm pretty sure he said his name was Ryle. What he do. I'm just trying to make it make sense. I'm speech- I'm actually speechless. Ryle. And his last name is Kincaid. Ryle Kincaid. It's the clunkiest combination of letters I have ever, ever had the unpleasant misfortune of reading. That is what they should be upset about, not the fact that she's wearing two pairs of pants.

Laura 6:53

And I saw a lot of people as well saying, if you're upset that the movie looks bad, maybe it's time that you just wake up and realize that the book is bad, so it's doing the best that it can. Well, if you think that this isn't how she was supposed to look, maybe you need to reflect on the fact that they had no information on how she was supposed to look. I think she's probably likely just a self-insert for most readers. I would say people are imagining her however they would like to. And they've gone with the pretty unconventional styling, I do have to say. So I can see why people might be distressed. There is a TikTok I'm looking at from a user named Rainy Strawberry, and it says, Y'all ever think that maybe it ends with us set looks cringe because the book is actually cringe, and seeing it in real life proves how badly it was written. And one of the top comments on that from Doggy Dog Beep says, Like, this woman made floral arrangements by dyeing roses purple and tying them together with metal washers, gears, and brown leather straps. And then when you go to the video associated with that comment, they have a little quote from the book that says, What are you doing to those poor flowers? Alyssa asks from behind me. I clamp another silver washer closed and slide it down the stem. Steampunk. That is shocking to me.

Bridget 8:10

I when you said steampunk before, it didn't really register. But is she making steampunk floral arrangements? Yes.

Laura 8:19

Because it then goes on to say Then I decorated the stems with different steampunk elements, like tiny metal washers and gears, and even super glued a small clock to the brown leather strap that's holding the bouquet together. I found a pair of old button-up women's boots at the flea market last week. They reminded me of the steampunk style. She was her brain is rotted by steampunk, so I think that's her bad. She just didn't realise she put on two pairs of pants. Coming back to the original hot take, with that in mind, do you think that people have changed their tunes? What have you been seeing?

Bridget 8:54

Nothing. Oh Yeah, we did establish that. But I think that is a statement in itself. I mean, when the colouring book was announced, when we saw the pictures of the crazy outfits, there was outrage. But then when the trailer comes out, nothing. I have only seen positive things about the trailer. So I think Anonymous is right. Everybody did seem to change their opinion as soon as the trailer came out. Having not read the book, my main problem with the trailer was Taylor Swift once again lending her music to questionable projects. And I love Taylor. I'll follow you wherever you want to go, but babe, can we stop? My Tears Ricochet is in this trailer. The only enjoyable part of the trailer for me was that song. She also wrote Carolina for where the crawled sing. And obviously, we have the controversy about the author surrounding an unsolved murder of a poacher in Zambia, where her and her husband were living and working as conservationists. And apparently they still wanted for questioning in Zambia around that. Also, just the jarring use of the N-word when it really did nothing to further the plot. It just sort of felt like, well, it's set in the 50s, I'm gonna use it. I think that was the reason why you stopped reading it. Yes. It was pretty out of pocket. So she wrote a song for that movie. Great song, weird choice. I mean, do I really need to say anything about I don't want to live forever, included in Fifty Shades Darker? Once again, great song, questionable movie. And I just wish that I had an explanation other than her and Blake Lively are besties. Why does she do this? She's so intentional about every other part of her career.

Laura 10:29

I don't get it. It is super confusing. I kind of have a tie-in comment with Fifty Shades Darker because I was thinking this about Twilight, about Fifty Shades of Grey, and with my limited knowledge about It Ends With Us. But I think when you have a book of this caliber and a movie of it comes out, in my opinion, the movie is always going to be better because we have professional actors, cinematographers, and screenwriters interpreting what is normally like the most barest bones, like no-brain kind of foundation. Yeah. And people will criticize Fifty Shades of Grey and Twilight, you know, that Harry Styles fanfiction Anne Hathaway movie, whatever it may be, and say it was shit. But look what they're working with and look what they made it. I think those actors are always giving it their all. And I think that's kind of what I was seeing in the It Ends With Us trailer. It looks like a beautifully shot movie. It looks like it's well produced, it's got lots of money behind it. Blake Lively's gorgeous. It's always going to be better, I think, but the people that say that it's not are probably the people that are using the character of Lily as a self-insert. And that means it's not aligning with what they wanted it to be or what they see it as being. So that's my hot take. Do you think you'll see the movie when it comes out?

Bridget 11:46

Probably not. If we read the book on the podcast around the time the movie came out, I could be persuaded to watch it. But other than that, no.

Laura 11:54

That's what I was gonna say, but I didn't want to claim that energy. Do I want to say something that I might regret? Tying into that Colleen Hoover hot take, we do have one from Emily underscore Aiky. And so sorry if I'm saying these incorrectly. Emily is of the opinion that Colleen Hoover books are for women who don't read, and that's why they think she's good. Big claim, Emily.

Bridget 12:23

Do you want to start or shall I? I can start. You and I have been readers since the beginning of reading time. Since our brains were enabled. And I think we were very lucky to have been born into families that were supportive of this and encouraging of reading, introduced to reading probably as babies, and then continuing on through childhood, adolescence, adulthood. And I don't think everybody has that opportunity or luck in their lives to foster that love of reading. They might not have had teachers that were interested, they might not have had parents who were able or willing to read or buy books or take them to the library. That's my caveat for what I'm about to say. But when I see people on TikTok who have like, and it's very cute, but they have their little like book cart, and they're like, I filled up my book cart. It's time to buy a bookshelf. I'm like, how do you not have a bookshelf? How do you not have a bookshelf full of books? I've always had a bookshelf full of books, even from when I was like six. We've always had books in the house, and once again, people haven't always had that opportunity. But I do agree with this to an extent. I think that this is an introduction for people who have not read since they were forced to read in school. Is that a bad thing? I don't think it is, unless that's where they end.

Laura 13:52

Oh my god. So gracefully and eloquently said, that's pretty much where I am too. In my heart, I want to just say yes, flat out. But I think Koho is like a gateway drug to better things. Yes. And I think everyone needs a gateway drug for reading. Barbie goes on holiday for me. Babysitter's club, Snow Pony, The Saddle Club. The saddle club.

Bridget 14:15

I could literally go on.

Laura 14:16

The day my bum went psycho. Goosebumps.

Bridget 14:20

This is just the adult version of Goosebumps, Babysitter's Club, the Saddle Club. Yes. It's accessible, it's juicy. I mean, I don't know, maybe a little bit sexy. I don't know how much how many sex scenes are in these books.

Laura 14:30

And I think it depends, like you said, does it lead to more? And how do you view reading? Are you using it as like purely as an escape? Or are you engaging in like some kind of conversation about the books that you're reading? And there's not really like a right or wrong answer to that. But those are the questions I would be asking if people are saying that Colleen Hoover is their favourite author.

Bridget 14:52

This might be a little bit controversial, but I in my brain, Colleen Hoover is the same as Sarah J. Masse. I also include in this Taylor Jenkins read, which might be a little bit of a saucy take, but I don't feel like these authors are writing anything too groundbreaking. Allie Hazelwood is another one. Hannah Grace. Hannah Grace. But there's a finite amount of books that these authors have written. And so if people are getting into reading, they can't just read the one author forever. I really do think no one is reading Colin Hoover and leaving it there. I think people would be expanding their horizons, especially with things like book talk. They see you like this, you might like this, and then they expand and they find what they like. Also, we can't ignore that all of these authors that we're like slagging are all female authors. And reading is stereotypically a female hobby. So that makes me protective of it a little bit. Yeah. There's a lot of criticism about book talk and saying, oh, it's ruining publishing. And Colin Hoover is ruining publishing, but is it? Or is it just something that girls like?

Laura 15:57

And what are you doing for publishing? Yeah. Where's your book? Men of the world. Where are where are your best friends? These are imaginary men that we're fighting. Sorry that you can't impassion the men in the same way.

Bridget 16:08

If we're gonna like talk smack about Colleen Hoover, then David Goggins, we should be talking about, we should be talking about James Patterson, we should be talking about atomic habits, Dan Brown, I guess. Like people like that uh seem to be above criticism because they're for men. Yeah. And they're about manly things. But the second that there are these women authors who may not be, you know, among the great literary greats, but they're writing about fluffy things or serious w issues that women face, like domestic violence, then that's when it becomes a problem, and that's when it's ruining the industry. And so while I agree, some people that read Colleen Hoover might be a little bit inexperienced and that's why they think she's good. I also think Read what you want to read.

Laura 16:50

Yeah, I say this with no irony, but I think the best book is the one that you enjoy. Overwhelmingly, reading is such a harmless act. It can be escape or community or I don't know, a sense of connection or joy, a way of finding out about yourself, a way of learning new things. And I think any opportunity that you have to do that is a great opportunity.

Bridget 17:13

This next one is one I'm really nervous about. Same. I mean, the person who wrote it isn't nervous. She was like, nah, say my name. Shout it from the rooftops. Say my name, say my name.

Laura 17:24

Nikki.Rodhouse, we are calling you out for your hot take. We didn't even specify that it didn't have to be book related. You came in hot regardless. This is just something you had to get off your chest. And we love that for you. You want the world to know that you think Beyoncé is overrated. Nikki Rodhouse, you think Beyonce is overrated.

Bridget 17:48

Look, I'm not part of the Beehive or whatever they're called, but I can respect Beyonce and everything she has achieved, everything she stands for, and what she means to her fans. I don't think she's overrated. She she could be underrated, honestly. I don't know enough about it. I feel like the empowerment that she provides her fans is something that is so admirable and impressive that it seems like a little bit daunting from the outside, and I just don't know enough about it.

Laura 18:18

I agree. I would say for me personally, Beyonce is overrated. Like if we're talking strictly musical tastes, I mean, what what is what does it mean to be overrated? It's so hard to say. I would say I don't listen to Beyonce very much. I don't think I've ever really thought, God, I would love to put on some Beyoncé right now. That said, and hilariously, I do quite enjoy her country album, but like that says more about me than it does about Beyoncé. And kind of what you were saying, I think her she has this huge cultural impact that stretches so far beyond just her music. And so if we're talking about being overrated, then in what sense do we mean? Because I think like even when I think about her, I don't really think about her music. I think she's like this entity. You have people saying, like, oh oh my god, she's like the Beyonce of reading podcasts or whatever. So she's bigger than her own name. I think one of the things that is most impressive about her to me is her ability to like adapt and reinvent herself. Her career has so much longevity. I think she's been in the industry for over 30 years. It's not just that she's been in the industry for over 30 years, it's the fact that she's still relevant.

Bridget 19:34

Yeah, and she's been on top for most of those 30 years. Yeah. And will continue to be ahead of the game.

Laura 19:40

And I think that's amazing.

Bridget 19:41

I also admire her habit of staying silent. I like when artists just put out their art, go on tour, and then just go home and they don't cause problems. Yes. This is the same with Taylor Swift. Puts out a music, she goes on tour, sometimes she goes for a walk in New York. But for me, I think for people that like Beyonce as well, I think it's more about the messages that are put in the music and also the messages that are portrayed through the music videos and the tours and just the other artistic output.

Laura 20:16

I think Taylor Swift and Beyoncé and other artists definitely do this thing where they kind of give you an idea of like a persona or a lifestyle, and it's almost like aspirational to listen to them. It's like I think both of them have a way of like reinventing their music as well, or developing, you know, progressing their music so that you kind of have an opportunity to say, like, which version of Beyonce do I want to be today, or like which version of Taylor do I want to be? And it's like kind of get to align your life to that as well. Like a little blueprint to work by. And I think that's really cool.

Bridget 20:51

I feel like if I was maybe a little bit older, I would have really been heavy on the Beyonce train. But Destiny's Child, when they were sort of big, I wasn't of an age where I was listening to music that I picked, and my parents, we just, you know, listen to like Australian rock and triple M and whatever. And so Beyoncé is not on Triple M. What? And then by the time I was, you know, picking music, I feel like there was so much already to unpack that maybe it felt a bit overwhelming. And also, I'm not really like a RB listener, I'm more of like sad girl with a guitar.

Laura 21:26

It's exactly that thing you were saying before about the fandom, it's quite intimidating. There's so much to get through, so much to understand. Like I'm not really a Taylor Swift fan. So to me, it's like the concept of busting in to even begin. I'm like, oh, there's just so many layers, like this it goes back so many years. Like, where do I start that's right for me? Like, what if I listen to an album and it's not one that I really like, but I'm like missing out on another album? And like it's just it's so hard to get started now. So for me, not like a Beyoncé music super fan, but I have to disagree with you, Nikki.

Bridget 22:00

I disagree with you, Nikki. Beyonce, if you're listening, keep doing what you're doing.

Laura 22:06

You have our support. So many celebrity listeners. Our next hot take comes from our new besties, uh It's Hard Back Out here. And they are of the opinion I've literally never read a book I hated more than Red, White, and Royal Blue. Yes.

Bridget 22:26

It's just total glee on your face. I love to talk shit about this book. And either way, you know what? I would have agreed with you up until last week there's a book that has overtaken Red, White, and Royal Blue for me. I know it. You do know it, because we're gonna talk about it soon. For hopefully three hours. And that book is Fifty Shades of Grey. But go listen to that episode because I'm sure we'll talk about that there. We're here to talk about Red, White, and Royal Blue. Now, obviously, we have an episode from August last year about this book. I hated it.

Laura 23:02

How did you feel about it? I really didn't enjoy it as well. I was sorely disappointed. And I've also never seen you more passionate about something in your life.

Bridget 23:11

Even now, even like a year after reading it, I'm still like it so much. I feel like the public perception of red, white in royal blue is finally turning more into my favour. My favour, yeah. Back when our episode was released in August of last year, we got a lot of hate comments. Like people were telling us to touch grass because we're gonna be able to do it. We were really and it was like our first one, and we were like, Oh, they hate us. And I don't really care anymore. You can send me as much hate as you want about this book because 2024, I'm not afraid anymore. But this time, everybody seems to be agreeing with us. We've had like quite a few comments being like, oh my god, finally, someone telling the truth. And like, we have been telling the truth since August of last year, but that's okay. Yeah, well, you were asleep, and now you are awake. Now you are awake, and I think people were like tricked by the movie, which I refuse to watch. People have tried to make me watch it. I don't want to watch that shit. I'm not interested. I've seen the best bits on TikTok, not impressed, not interested.

Laura 24:11

I am so upset about this book and this movie in association because I have recently become obsessed with Nicholas Gallatzine. I watched Bottoms and he was so funny in that. Is that the one where he's like, I'm sorry? Yeah. He is so hilarious. Then I watched The Idea of You, and he was stunningly gorgeous in that movie. Like his little earring. Yeah, and his little fuzzy sweaters. I was shaken to my core. I did not think that I had this level of like breathlessness. I was Penelope Bridgeting the whole time. And then I watched the variety actors on actors with him and Leo Woodle after I'd watched One Day. He is Dexter in One Day. It was great conversation, just two besties hitting it off. And I was like, what else can I watch that's got him in it? But I don't want to watch this.

Bridget 25:06

No, I don't want to. And it's nothing against the actors. I think they would do a great job. But once again, the source material sucks.

Laura 25:14

It's just so dumb.

Bridget 25:15

Ah, so thank you, it's hardback out here for allowing us to once again speak about the atrocity that is red, white, and royal blue.

Laura 25:24

No further comment. Wholehearted agreement from both of us there. It's not a controversial take in these. You're not round here, partner. Not round here. Second hot take from It's Hardback Out here, sharing a close second most hated book. And that is Heartstopper. So it's not source.

Bridget 25:44

Once again, besties. I agree. I wouldn't say it's my second most hated book or third most hated. Um, but when I first read this in 2022, I think I was too scared to be honest publicly about how much I hated this book. And I think I was lacking confidence in my opinions and also wasn't sure about the world of graphic novels and how to critique them correctly, maybe. But once again, 2024, not afraid anymore. And this book sucks. It's so boring, nothing happens, it infantilizes what could have been a really lovely romance. It's like they're five years old. It's so boring.

Laura 26:20

Yeah, I read Heartstopper the first one in preparation for this episode. Um, it had never been on my radar before. Look, it's a book, it was fine. I see the appeal, I guess. Like it was very cutesy and relatively upbeat, and I guess we've talked a lot before about how queer people don't often just have like fun, fluffy, lighthearted things that they can enjoy. Like, you don't I mean, thankfully, increasingly, you do see that kind of representation in books and media. Yeah, like it just was giving me nothing. The characters were so dull, the names were all basically the same, it was so confusing for me. The dialogue was like, um, I kind of think this blue pen is never gonna come off. It was just a little bit small and weak for rugby. Yes, and I hate it. The bits where it was like, Whoa, is that Charlie? He's so popular and good at music and rugby, and everybody likes him. And I thought it was like a joke or a dream sequence.

Bridget 27:24

I was like, hang on, is Charlie popular?

Laura 27:26

Yeah. What since when? Like I thought he was like a big dog. I think he got some street cred after he came out, and then some older guys were like, bullying, knock it off. Racism, knock it off. And it was like, I I think as well, it's just you know, me v graphic novels, there's only so much I can get out of them. Me v YA, same kind of thing. I'm just not getting what I want out of it. I think this premise is cute.

Bridget 27:52

And you know what? In contrast to my opinion about Red White and Royal Blue, I actually think the TV show of this would be good. Because I feel like there is a good romance. I just don't like the dialogue on the page. And I think it's because there's no, you know, there's nothing, there's no other filler text. It's just like, it's your fault for being a rugby lad. A lad? Yeah. I go to Nando's, yeah. And on the page that just seems so dumb. But I think if I was watching that, I'd be like, this is so cute. Yes. So I think the show would be better, but I'm not gonna watch it. So you'll you'll never get an update on this from me. But I do have like a bone to pick with this book. My main part that I didn't like was the fact that he has a fountain pen with blue ink.

Laura 28:40

You think that's criminal? It should be black only?

Bridget 28:43

What do you write with?

Laura 28:44

I don't write with the fountain pen.

Bridget 28:45

No, neither. But blue or black ink.

Laura 28:48

It would be black. Yeah, that's a great point.

Bridget 28:50

Refuse to use blue ink unless it's like a like left-of-field blue, but black! You're gonna have a fountain pen. Black.

Laura 28:56

Alternatively, the blood of your enemies could be a good option. I liked at the end of the book there were the letters or the diary entries. I was pretty impressed with the author's ability to kind of capture writing as like a 15, 16-year-old. It was really eerily similar to my own diary entries of like, oh, we're hanging out more than usual. I think like I really feel happy after hanging out with him, but I don't know why. Anyway, I saw his dog, his mum gave me spaghetti, it was really cool. I had a great day. It's like, yeah, that's more interesting. It's just like slightly more substantial.

Bridget 29:27

I think same as you, graphic novels and YA, not a good mix for me, and it's just not my thing.

Laura 29:32

I don't feel as passionate about this, but I'm happy to support you on it because I do feel as passionate about red, white, and royal blue. So I will follow you to the ends of the earth. I'm very excited to talk about this next one. Mood Reads and Coffee has asked us to weigh in on Suzanne Collins writing a book five for the Hunger Games series. Thoughts, Bridget.

Bridget 29:52

I was gonna text this the other day, but I'm back in my ballad of song, birds and snakes time of my life because I've been listening to the soundtrack nearly on repeat. Like Rachel Segler. Woman that you are, what a voice. Oh, I just I'm obsessed with her.

Laura 30:07

You actually were listening when I came over yesterday. Yes.

Bridget 30:10

Yeah. When she says gentec matcha, I'm like, oh, oh my god, this is just oh, she's so good. I love her so much. Have you seen the movie?

Laura 30:20

No, I was just thinking, oh, I have to do that when I get home.

Bridget 30:23

Because the Lars part when she wins the games and she's on top of the cornucopia, and the snakes are coming, and she's singing her little heart out, is like that is like one of the best scenes I've ever seen in a movie. And he's like, She's one. Dr. Gold, she's one, and she's like singing a little song about how no one's gonna I don't know, can't remember the song, but it was incredible. She's amazing. I'm obsessed with her, and so I'm keen for this. I mean, obviously, Rachel's like, well it's not gonna be in it, but yeah, I wonder.

Laura 30:52

Would you like to talk some more about it? Because I had seen that it was coming out, and I was like, mm-hmm okay. Just sort of ignoring the fact that I spent a good portion of last year like fully obsessing about the Hunger Games. It was probably one of the best parts of my reading year last year was revisiting the Hunger Games. And initially I I wasn't completely sold on a ballad of song Birds and Snakes, but it has really grown on me, and I think it's such a smart, such an interesting book with such great characters that I'm feeling pretty good. So it's called Sunrise on the Reaping, and it's a prequel to the original Katniss Hunger Games trilogy. So it takes place 40 years after the events of the Ballad of Song Birds and Snakes, and it is the 50th Hunger Games, which is Hey Mitch's year. Oh my god. I am actually so I'm excited.

Bridget 31:48

Yeah, I am too. I I mean still haven't seen any movie other than Bells. But I did watch a little bit of Mocking Jay. It was just on TV when I was at a family member's house for us to watch TV, and I was like, okay, well, if we've got to watch TV, this is something I can watch. And I watch a lot of edits on TikTok. And I would love I I think I will watch them.

Laura 32:06

They're good. So it's got a release date of 18th of March next year, so we will probably read that um at some point. And it already has a film adaptation announced as well. I just feel like the world needs Suzanne Collins. She just seems like such a smart woman that has a way of imparting these lessons about the world in a way where it's not shoving it down your throat. I think she's smart, and you see that in action through her writing. And there's a quote from her where she says, With Sunrise on the Reaping, I was inspired by David Hume's idea of implicit submission, and in his words, the easiness with which the many are governed by the few. The story also lent itself to a deeper dive into the use of propaganda and the power on those who control the narrative. The question, real or not real, seemed more pressing to me every day. I'm sold.

Bridget 32:55

Suzanne Collins only releases a book when she has something she wants to say. Amazing. Some other authors that could uh take from that.

Laura 33:03

This is a call out to Scholastic. Please, please send us a copy. We actually, I'm begging you. I will shamelessly beg. I'll watch four movies. Yeah. That's something that I don't do. I'll watch one movie. I'll watch the movie. Because not to brag, like I don't want to see him better than Bridget or anything, but I've already seen the other movies. We do have one more hot take from Mood Reads and Coffee, and that is that Gone Girl by Gillian Flynn is one of the most boring books they've ever read.

Bridget 33:33

Have you read Gone Girl? Yeah, I read it in 2020. I can't really remember my thoughts about the book. I think I was just like, it's a book.

Laura 33:41

We've had so many of those on this episode. I read the book and I've seen the movie, and um I don't know if I'm like sad to report it, but I really enjoyed both. I think the book and Gillian Flynn's books in general are a good blueprint for the kind of thriller I'm interested in reading. I don't know if thrillers just aren't for me or if I'm not finding the right ones, but I am often in the mood to read one and then am left unsatisfied. It's never quite as juicy as I want it to be, but I don't really remember having that feeling with this story. And as for the movie, I did really like that as well. The trouble that I have with the movie is that I just think that that character is Ben Affleck. I agree. And that's really all I have to say there. Sorry. I don't know why I sounded like I was crying. I just hate disappointing you guys. Please don't be mad at us. Unfortunately, the task of discussing this next hot take falls exclusively to me, Laura. Uh, it comes from Steph's book diary, and the take is A Little Life Does Not Deserve the Hype It Gets and serves no purpose but trauma. So I have read all three of Hanya Yanagahara's books. So we have The People in the Trees, A Little Life, and To Paradise. And you have read or listened to a little bit of To Paradise. I think 8% and then my loan lapsed shit.

Bridget 35:09

So I'm truly on my own not far through.

Laura 35:13

I really don't know where to begin. So I think to give you an idea of what we're dealing with here, I'll provide you with a non-exhaustive list of content warnings for a little life. So if we're running through the list, we have violent ableism, child abandonment, child abuse, child death, child molestation and rape, drug abuse, domestic violence and abuse, eating disorders, emotional abuse and gaslighting, grooming, pedophilia, physical abuse, rape, self-harm, suicide ideation, sex trafficking, gaslighting, sexual assault, and suicide.

Bridget 35:46

I did not actually know it was that serious because I've seen so many people be like, it'll ruin you. And I just thought it was like a sad, gay love story. But that's insane.

Laura 35:55

That's intense. It is important to know all of that before you start reading A Little Life, because it is no small part of the story.

Bridget 36:02

I've seen so much content about Little Life. I I did not know that most of those things were part of that book.

Laura 36:09

It's a lot, like it's harrowing. It's it is a sad read, but it is foremost a harrowing read. And I can't lie, I read this book in 2021, and my initial reaction was really positive. It was like, I love this book. I mean, if we know anything about me, it's that I love to feel something extreme after reading a book. And there is like a really beautiful romance that goes throughout this book. And I mean, it starts off seeming as though it's gonna be just this kind of like light-hearted sharehouse novel about four friends living in New York, and then it evolves into this thing, and the romance is a through line of it, and that's probably what I was most resonating with. But I would say that that's changed. Like I I would reread it, but I'd be quite hesitant to reread it because I wouldn't want to sort of sour its memory. But at the same time, I've really just settled into accepting those criticisms because I think they're extremely valid. So I've now read all three of her books, like I said, and all three of them seem to feature gay protagonists that are like absolutely going through the ringer, having excruciating and extremely bleak experiences. Something important is that Hanya Yanagahara is straight. Which is interesting because that's not what I expected, given that this is the perspective she chooses to write from so frequently.

Bridget 37:30

Time and time again.

Laura 37:31

I have some really interesting articles that I think I will link in the show notes that will kind of articulate this hopefully a little bit better than I can. But there is a quote from Hanya Yanagahara where she's talking to The Guardian, and it says she is particularly impatient with the own voice movement, which might question her right as a woman to tell the stories of gay men. It's very dangerous. I have the right to write about whatever I want. The only thing a reader can judge is whether I have done so well or not. And I think that's a fair enough opinion, but as a follow-up to that, it's like people are judging it and they're saying, You're doing a bad and a weird job. Like, why are you doing that, Hanya? Like it's just It's just the one tool in the arsenal that you just put down. So much of the criticism around this book is that it's just trauma porn or just like unnecessarily cruel and violent and unnecessary. There is a quote from one critic in a Vulture article saying that a little life is a prominent example of the trauma plot, and I think honestly, upon some reflection, I would tend to agree. I don't think I can like wholly separate it from the fact that I think it's a beautiful story, but the quote says that fiction uses a traumatic backstory as a shortcut to narrative. Indeed, it's easy to see Jude as a vivified DSM entry, perfectly crafted to appeal to a world infatuated with victimhood. And I do think that's true, and I if I'm being honest, I do think that's a part of the appeal for me. I am one of those people that love true crime, I love serial killer documentaries to a degree. But I think the shock factor of it is what makes it so popular, and it's also what makes it so cheap. And the fact that it's a theme that is carried over throughout all of her books is pretty questionable. So I actually don't disagree with you, Steph. I think for me it does serve some purpose apart from Trauma Porn. I found there to be a lot of really beautiful moments in this book. But now, having read the rest of Hanya Yanagahara's works, I'm feeling a little bit icky. It's weird because I find her writing so beautiful and I'm actually quite in awe of her ability to craft a narrative. And I will link those articles, like I said, because I think they offer a much more well-rounded viewpoint um and articulate things just so clearly. I'm just one opinion, um, and I think particularly if you're on the fence about reading this book, do extremely very much so take heed of the trigger warnings. I don't think I would ever recommend this book. Even though I've recommended it to you. I think you bought me a copy. Yeah.

Bridget 40:13

From my flight. Shit. We have come to the last hot take, and we cannot go an episode without mentioning Twilight at least three times. I don't know.

Laura 40:25

So we've actually already mentioned it multiple times.

Bridget 40:27

I feel like we have, but this comes in from Plant Peach Studio, and they have said Midnight Sun equals best Twilight book. Jake Abel audio version. I swear you won't be disappointed. Died LMAO. And I feel like we need to talk about this in two parts. First part, Midnight Sun. Second part, audiobook. How do you feel about Midnight Sun?

Laura 40:49

I would not put Midnight Sun at the top of my Twilight list. But if we were ranking them, Midnight Sun would probably be before, definitely before breaking dawn, possibly even before eclipse. How about you?

Bridget 41:02

I love Midnight Sun. It's too long, but I'm happy for it to be too long. I love hearing whingy little baby Edward complain about everything. I love it so much. And one day I want to do a tandem read where I read Twilight, Midnight Sun, like just page for page, even I'd be happy to do. As we know, there's something about Twilight, and there's something about that original book that is just untouchable for me. And Midnight Sun gets rid of Bella's thoughts, which makes it even better for me. So depending on the day, I would agree with Plant Peach Studio that Midnight Sun is the best Twilight book. But I w it wouldn't immediately come to my mind because I think it's different than the original four. I would put it separately, but on par or better than Twilight for me.

Laura 41:52

I do think Midnight Sun is a little bit more burned into my subconscious than I remember. When the Midnight Sun first chapter was leaked, I clearly read it a lot because when the Midnight Sun book was officially released, I was flipping through like, I'm sure I've read this and I don't understand why, because I'd forgotten about the whole leak. And it actually was a lot more than I remembered being leaked. But somehow the first line, this was the time of day when I most wished I were able to sleep, is transporting me back to a time in my life, the same way as I drove to the airport with the windows rolled down, transported me back. And I don't understand it. It's visceral.

Bridget 42:33

One of my main regrets in this world is not even like a personal regret. It's a regret that Stephanie Meyer didn't complete the series. Wholeheartedly agree. I just it's so good. It's so unnecessary, and I love it. Doesn't add anything other than like stupid thoughts about how Bella looks or like what music they're listening to, or you know, whatever he's thinking in the cafeteria and like the silent conversations that he and Alice have, but it's so brooding and so dumb and so good.

Laura 43:04

It is insane and contradictory of us to say because we've also very confidently and loudly said we hate books that continue a point of view or are the same story from a different point of view. But as always, Twilight is the exception to the rule. So while I don't think it's the best Twilight book, I fully understand your passion here.

Bridget 43:24

When we did our Twilight Saga Mega Mix Extravaganza to celebrate our one year anniversary of the podcast last year, we didn't include Midnight Sun. One day we'll do it. And I feel like we need to do it when you guys want us to, rather than when we want to. We want you to beg. Please.

Laura 43:41

Okay, I'm sensing Bridget isn't wanting that.

Bridget 43:44

I'm happy to do it anytime, but I don't want to like oversaturate the Twilight market. Fair cool, fair cool. The Twilight talklet market. But I mean, zero likes and I'll do it, honestly.

Laura 43:57

Maybe it can be our talklet get lit. Our anniversary special.

Bridget 44:02

That's a good idea.

Laura 44:03

Let us know what we're doing. Please weigh in.

Bridget 44:05

Yeah. And now we come to the second half of this hot take, which is the Jake Abel audio version. I swear you won't be disappointed. We haven't listened to the full audiobook, but we just did like a little little taster. And we don't want to end the episode on a sour note, but I don't agree. My body rejected that. I know nothing against Jake Abel, whoever you are. We don't like books that are narrated by men almost exclusively. And the only man I would accept to narrate this book is Robert Pattinson.

Laura 44:35

And I think from the bit that we heard, Jake Abel doesn't quite sound like a 17-year-old boy. He sounds like an adult man. And that makes it a bit weirder for me. I just don't like having a man in my ears. Not as a rule. I The Two Paradise audiobook, I listened to that and the male narrator was fantastic. Same with the people in the trees, like amazing. But they sounded like men and they were playing a role that is like a well-to-do man.

Bridget 44:59

It's just unfortunate that we have all of these like prejudices. We have no one but Robert, prejudice, and we have no man should be in my ear prejudice. Sorry, Plant Beat Studio.

Laura 45:14

We agree with half of what you said. Yeah. But also just a shout out to anybody in general. Don't let us ever stop you from talking at us or to us about Twilight in any capacity because we want to hear it all.

Bridget 45:28

We're happy to give any any narrator a go, even if it's a man. I don't know about you, Bridget, but I had a great time. This was so fun. And thank you if you're one of the people that sent in your hot takes.

Laura 45:45

Even you, Nikki Rodhouse.

Bridget 45:49

Your Beyonce hater. Um, this has been great. If you ever have something you want us to talk about, you don't have to wait for an Instagram question box. You can email us, you can DM us. If you do want to send us an email, our email is hello at talklitgethit.com. Um we've added in a little text box in the monthly survey of what we're reading as well, if there's things you want us to talk about. Anytime. We're happy, we're happy to listen. We are here for you. Our ears and our inboxes are always open. Our September episode is our Australian fiction special, and we are reading The Hating Game by Sally Thorne. Have your say on what we read next by keeping an eye on the link in our show notes and on our socials. Make sure you subscribe to the show, and if you want to be on the same page as us, follow us at talklit.get on Instagram and TikTok.