we read this YA murder mystery darling... and yikes! - a good girl's guide to murder by holly jackson

this episode has us feeling spooked to the core as we dip our toes into the bone-chilling waters of the mystery/thriller genre. for the month of October we are reading A Good Girl's Guide to Murder by Holly Jackson and asking ourselves the age old question: how spooky is too spooky?

we explore a variety of accents, apologise for past and present (and future) judgements on American listeners, talk dead dogs, precocious teens, the audiobook listening experience and the pitfalls of Young Adult fiction.

books mentioned in this episode:
A Good Girl's Guide to Murder - Holly Jackson
Eileen - Otessa Moshfegh
Big Little Lies - Liane Moriarty
None of This is True - Lisa Jewel
The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo - Steig Larsson
Rosemary's Baby - Ira Levin
Stone Cold Fox - Rachel Coller Croft
Darling Girls - Sally Hepworth
Pretty Girls - Karin Slaughter
The Secret History - Donna Tartt
Sharp Object - Gillian Flynn
Little Fires Everywhere - Celeste Ng

synopsis music by Francesco Biondi

choose our next podcast read by going here and voting in the first week of each month!

make sure you subscribe to hear our groundbreaking thoughts as soon as they are unleashed. if you want to be on the same page as us, follow us at talklit.gethit on Instagram and TikTok.

theme music born from the creative genius of Big Boi B.

join talk lit, get hit podcast for deep dives into the hottest BookTok recommendations, trending contemporary fiction, and literary favourites! each episode features book discussions, spoiler-filled chats, and thoughtful literary analysis of novels everyone is talking about - from viral romance and fantasy to modern classics. whether you’re looking for BookTok book reviews, author interviews, or a virtual book club experience, out podcast is your go-to space for readers who love stories and want to explore them in depth.

talk lit, get hit are reading and recording on Giabal, Jagera, Jarowair & Turrbal lands. we acknowledge the cultural diversity of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples and pay respect to Elders past, present and future. always was, always will be.  

Transcript

Laura 0:00

What a calamity.

Bridget 0:01

What a calamity.

Laura 0:02

What you think I killed her, do ya? What's it to you, Punk? Be careful, Pip, you don't know what you're messing with here. Hello and welcome to Talk Lit Get Hit, a podcast where we read viral books the internet won't shut up about and rate them lit or shit. We're your hosts Bridget and Laura, lovers of sad girl fiction and tragic endings, hearers of smut, urban fantasy, and the Who Did This To You trope. Join us as we pick apart all the books the internet loves and embark on a journey to figure out why. This episode we are bringing a certain Who Goes There energy to talk lit get hit as we cover the genres of mystery and thriller. We're reading a book that The Guardian has called Tort, Compulsively Readable, and Elegantly Plotted. For the month of October, we are plotting and planning and reading A Good Girl's Guide to Murder by Holly Jackson. Bridget. Hello, hello. Hello, hello. Spooky month, October. Ooh, three spookies. Wow. My favourite joke. What are you gonna dress up as for Halloween? The rental crisis. What about you? Hmm. I'm gonna dress up as a ghost. Oh nice. I always try to catalogue good Halloween costume ideas throughout the year. And then remember that I never dress up for Halloween. So what's the point? Literally have never been to a Halloween party. I think one year we decorated our house. Maybe two years we've done that, but like we don't get many. We had a series of quite good parties with our friends for Halloween, and the first was after 2020, so I think we were like big in the yay friendship, we can all see each other again, kind of energy. And we had an emo-themed party, um, which was brilliant. It was really fun to throw back to the era we grew up in, but dabble in a style that we never explored. No. I regret that we didn't to a degree because those photos would be so good to look back on. That's true. I don't even know if we had many friends that were like true into the emo phase. Like, I think there were a lot of people in our grade that were, but we didn't really know them very well, so we couldn't even like participate from the sidelines. Very sad. That's true. We had a bit of a phase of dress-up parties, actually. You just reminded me a few friends and I we decided to watch Star Wars. Brian had seen them, we hadn't, we weren't really that interested. I think we'd watched Twilight first. We made him watch Twilight, and then he was like, Well, let's watch Star Wars. So each week we had to dress up as um a Star Wars character, but we couldn't Google or like fact-check, so we just had to do it from like the limited knowledge that we had of Star Wars. And it was actually really painful because we did it every weekend, spend too much money at Spotlight, panic buying things for costumes, and now we just have all this shit that we'll never use again. That's such a fun idea. It was fun, it was so fun. Then we had a bookweek party as well, actually, and that was so so fun. Like everyone got to pick a character that maybe they did dress up as, or they would have if they had the chance, because a few people in our friend group didn't grow up in Australia, and so they didn't have the book week opportunity. So Maddie and I dressed as Joe and Laurie from the proposal scene. That was amazing. That's so good. So that was fun, but we haven't done I think we like costume partied out. We've had enough for a long time. It's a big commitment. Do you remember what you dressed up as for bookweek? I know in grade seven I was Avril Levine. I don't know. What book? I was a princess, just a generic princess. Oh, I think the best one though was like maybe grade three, grade four. I think I was going for like Anne of Green Gables, but more like Diana than Anne. And it was absolutely beautiful. I love that dress. I can't really remember any other ones. I feel like they were the notable ones. How about you? I have two notable ones sticking out of my mind, and they both involve me being humbled in front of a crush. I think the first time was in grade two, and I had what I thought was a really, really sick vampire costume. I had the glow on the dark teeth, amazing, the fake blood. Mum had slicked my hair back with gel, and of course, I was matching with my best friend as well. Yes. And then when I went to visit my brother's classroom in the grade below, there was a kid in the class that I was crushing on, and he was like, Whoa, Matthew's brother, your costume looks really cool. No, I got slammed. And it was just hurtful on so many levels because even as like a six-year-old or whatever, I was forced to reckon with the fact that I had a crush on him he didn't even know I existed. He thought you were a boy. I was a boy. Oh, that is very sad. And then the second one was in grade seven, and I was dressed as a magic carpet, which was just like a rectangular, like poncho kind of thing in this tapestry material with blue tassels. And my crush came up to me and said, What's your middle name? And in my head, I was like, This is really good progress. He wants to know everything about me. And then he kind of got that info and then went away to digest. And then later that day he was like, Hey, I heard you have a crush on me. I don't have a crush back. It turned out that uh one of my friends had been, I guess the kindest way to think about it is that she was trying to help me out and she was like, Someone with the middle name May has a crush on you. No. Anyway, he dealt with that very quickly. He was like, Let's shut it down. It's probably the worst costume to be humbled in. We should have a talk like get hit book week party though. That's a great idea. I think it was book week last week, so maybe next year. Guys, lock it in. Virtual dress up. It's gonna be so sick. Mysteries and thrillers. Is it a genre that you've read? Much old. No. I'm listening. I did go through my goodreads. And to be fair, there were quite a few. I think there was like 47 mystery books total, and then probably 20 thriller, and I wouldn't recommend most of them. I only really have two on my list that I thought were like worth mentioning. Actually, three, because I just remembered that I really enjoyed The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, but that was about 10 years ago, and I don't know if I would still enjoy it. I think we've talked about this before. Yeah, we are very Against All Odds. Yeah, a long, long time ago. And also Stone Cold Fox by Rachel Collarcroft. I haven't heard of that one. It was great. It's like a mystery slash through. Yeah, I think it was she was like a trophy wife or like something. Honestly, can't remember, but I did like it. Of course, Gorky Park. But I can't remember what happened in that book, and I wouldn't recommend it because I don't know what's in it. Not Gorky Park. That's another one for listeners to tally. Anytime we get a Gorky Park mention, tick. It's probably equal to the amount of times I tried and failed to read it. Ten years later. How about you? I'm kind of the same in terms of it's not so much how many I've read, but it's how many I'd recommend. Because I do feel like quite often I think, God, I just want to sit down with a big juicy thriller and just like have the pants shocked off me. I just want to be speechless. I want to be confused. I want to be like jarred and and and frazzled. I never want that. Ever. Just shake me up. Make me scared. Yeah. And then I look at the mysteries slash thrillers, and they all have the most hideous covers in the world. And I think, how could I possibly choose when they all look so ugly and unenticing? And so I feel like I dabble in this kind of more domestic mystery slash thriller, like Sally Hepworth, like Leanne Moriarty, which is not something I'm mad about because it's something that I really enjoy. I read Darling Girls recently, which was really juicy. I think I've recommended Big Little Lies before, and oldie but a Goldie, as I believe they say. Having a bit of a look through my list, some of the others that I've enjoyed were None of This Is True by Lisa Jewell. And I listened to that as an audiobook and I found it really, really enjoyable. Pretty Girls by Karen Slaughter. I've actually never said that out loud, and I've always wondered if it's Corinne Slaughter or like Karen Slaughter, or I have no idea. I think that author's pretty prolific within that genre, so I just kind of felt like pick one and go for gold. The Secret History I would put into that category, and it's one of the best books of all time. Eileen by Otessa Moschfeg, I think was really good. Definitely left me feeling confused and unsettled, so that's a tick. And then the only other two on my list were some classics from a few years ago: Sharp Objects by Gillian Flynn and Little Fires Everywhere by Celeste Ing. So, with all that in mind, what were your initial thoughts, expectations, hopes, and dreams heading into A Good Girl's Guide to Murder by Holly Jackson? I've always just assumed that this book is not good. Not great. I think it's because the cover does not appeal to me. Young adult does not appeal to me. I feel like every single book that is of this genre has some version of the same title that confuses me. How about we all just take a step back and use some different words for once? One thing it did make me think of was those books that used to be popular that were like a girl's guide to craft or things girls can make or something like that. I had one from my a hand-me-down from my mother, and it's called Hundreds of Things a Girl Can Make. Easy handicrafts and hobbies. And I've just opened it up to sort of fact-check myself, and it says to Sandra, which is my mother, many happy returns of the day, Leanne. And she apparently got this when she was 10. And then me, because I'm a little nerd, wrote, at some point in my life, hand it over to Bridget. It's good record keeping. Lane claim. I'm always an archivist. This one's actually the second book of Hundreds of Things A Girl Could Make. And I was always like looking for a project, you know, I'm always looking to complete lists and things like that. And I was always like, I'm gonna make every single thing in this book, and then I'd open it up, and then it would have all of these household items that like aren't popular anymore, and that I couldn't make a single one. I always remember wanting to make this doll. Oh, I've literally just opened to the right page. The clothespeg family. Have you ever tried to make funny people out of clothes pegs? We mean, of course, the pegs with the long legs of plain wood, not the ones with the metal springs. You'd be like six years old whistling your little heart out. Just give me wooden pegs. I need wood. So sadly, I never ever made a single thing in this book. I know. Um, here's another one, an odds and ends doll. Didn't have any odds and ends. Tea cozy doll. There's lots of like really quaint things in here. There's some cookery, rug designing, a doll's coat. Very cute. Also, very like high hopes for me thinking that I would be able to do any of these. To this day. Yeah. Quite optimistic. Less skills now, I think. There are more books in this series, hundreds of things a boy can make. And harmless scientific experiments for boys. Do they have another one that's like extremely environmentally damaging projects for boys to undertake? Girl's Guide to Fracking. A good A Good Girl's Guide to Burning Ants. So, okay, you had some pretty skewed expectations setting into this book. When do I not? Honestly. Yeah. To be fair, almost always. Yeah. How about you? What were your thoughts, dreams, expectations? I think I was feeling pretty similarly. I don't think it's a book that I ever thought I would read. It's a young adult fiction book, which we know we don't love. And I do find even though I rattled off quite a few, I think my hit rate isn't great, and I'm normally a little bit unsatisfied with the typical murder mysteries slash thrillers that I try to read. So I really was not confident that this extremely hyped young adult fiction mystery was gonna satisfy me or fulfill any sort of need in my reading life. This episode of our podcast contains detailed discussions and spoilers for A Good Girl's Guide to Murder by Holly Jackson. If you haven't finished the book yet and want to avoid spoilers, we recommend coming back to this episode once you're done. In this episode, we also discuss themes of murder and violence, rape and sexual violence, drug use and abuse, predatory behaviour, and racism. Five years ago, schoolgirl Andy Bell was murdered by Sal Singh. The police know he did it. Everyone in town knows he did it. But having grown up in the same small town that was consumed by the murder, Pippa Fitzamobi isn't so sure. When she chooses the case as the topic for her final year project, she starts to uncover secrets that someone in town desperately wants to stay hidden. If the real killer is still out there, how far will they go to keep Pip from the truth? Okay, now that we've read the book, Laura, how did you feel about A Good Girl's Guide to Murder by Holly Jackson? I don't know. I have conflicted feelings. I think would I recommend this book? Probably not. But at the same time, did I enjoy reading it? I would say definitely yes. And I don't really know where that puts me. Yeah, I'm just struggling to figure out how I feel about it. I don't know. I think I like I liked it. I liked it. I was keeping my young adult blinkers on and I was trying to ignore those aspects. I was trying to ignore the personalities of the family and Pip herself. And I was enjoying the book until around the halfway mark when she and Ravi went into the drug dealer's house. I was really enjoying it up till then. Then I got sick and I didn't read it for a while, and then I got a message from you that said that you thought I should try to listen to the audiobook at least just a little bit. Sorry. And I was about 180th in the line at the library, so I bought it on Libro. And that really took all enjoyment out of the book for me because the narration was probably the most irritating thing I've ever had the displeasure of listening to. The way that Pip, Cara, and her father spoke were especially heinous, and Max can also get an honorable mention here as well. Because, oh sorry, unfortunately, that sort of ruined it for me. So thank you for telling me to do that because I was having a great time up until that point. Was that your intention? Well, I really wanted to talk about how much it was shitting me. So I didn't realize it was gonna drag you down. I wouldn't say I did it with malice in my heart, but I was hoping you could commiserate.

Bridget 15:15

Oh, it's terrific. It was so good until I listened.

Laura 15:22

Everything I chose to ignore was just shoved right back in my face. It was like a dog that isn't wanting to eat like the tablet hidden in the ham, and then I just got shoved in my mouth with one of those long syringes. Oh man, I yeah, I would love to talk about it at length and impersonate it at length, so I'm sure we'll get there. But yeah. Oh man, it's good to have mixed media. Yeah, it's great. It's so great to have mixed media. You don't have to say it like that, Bridget. Well, maybe we could start by talking very, very briefly about Holly Jackson herself. So A Good Girl's Guide to Murder is her debut novel. According to her Goodreads, she wrote a very bad novel, age 15, which I think is bad or not, pretty impressive. Yeah. Born in 1992, so she's just a couple of years older than us, and A Good Girl's Guide to Murder was published in 2019. And it's won some pretty good awards. It won the American Library Association's amazing audiobooks for young adults. Um actually, I object. The Goodreads Choice Award nominee for young adult fiction. But it was also the British Book Awards Children's Fiction Book of Winner of the Year. From the hype around this book and the fact that there's like a TV show and everything, and the fact that it's rated so highly on Goodreads, I did actually expect it to have sort of more prestigious awards attached to it. Like still a big deal, still very cool. But I wasn't expecting it to be like Goodreads Choice Award nominee type award that we were seeing associated with like 50 Shades of Grey. Apart from that, I didn't find out that much more about Holly Jackson, did you? No, I was having a stalk of her Instagram and her TikTok, and I didn't find anything too offensive there. Like painfully millennial, but that's that's okay. Like, you know, we all aren't we all we all have our journeys. There was one really funny TikTok where she went snowboarding and she was doing a really bad job of it. She was like, Yeah, I played SSX tricky as a child. So that sort of warmed me to her after the disappointment of the audiobook. So I'm back on her side now. If it's any comfort, the audiobook isn't her narrating it. It's not just one person solely responsible for what we're hearing as well. Yes, but it is just one person responsible for the ones that I don't like. So I think it's hard to tell at times. Yes. So you were saying you were initially quite enjoying your reading experience. Do you remember what you were enjoying about it? I think it was something that I think a lot of the YA books that I have enjoyed in the past um have in common. I think I just found it really easy to read. I was reading it quite quickly. Like I think in two sittings I had made it to like halfway through the book. Like it didn't feel like a taxing read. It wasn't a chore. Bits were funny. Like it was funny. How about you? I think to start with, I was enjoying the overall vibe. Have you watched Pretty Little Liars? No. Because that's what it was sort of reminding me of. But it was just a bit less saucy. And so I think it started off filling a hole that I didn't know I needed filled. I watched like three or four seasons of Pretty Little Liars seven years ago when I had my wisdom teeth removed. And so I was pretty happy with that. I was also happy that it was set in the UK. I had just assumed it was set in America. I think I just sort of had thought like precocious teenagers and murder, that's like a very American kind of duo. Um to paint with really broad strokes. I have been thinking of saying this a lot lately, but I'm really sorry to all the American listeners. Like we have a lot of American listeners. And I'm really sorry, we just constantly slander you. It's not you guys, it's it's the other ones. Sorry for party rocking. I feel bad every time, but even I can't stop. I agree that it was really quick to get through, and I'm annoyed, probably the same as you, that I did spend so much time listening to the audiobook because it's faster to read. And I'll I'll just come right out and say it. But I actually hated the format. I hated it so much. At the time of recording, I am 28 days away from being married. And overall, I found the process of planning a wedding to be super fun. But as we get to this tail end, it's lots of like writing lists and like going about your day and then going, oh, matches, matches, we'll need matches, or like blister band-aids, and just like dumb stuff is popping into my head, and I'm sick of it, I'm sick of it being there. I can't wait to realise my full potential once these like endless lists on lists on lists and stuff are not taking up brain space. And so when I was reading this, I was planning the wedding and we were also getting ready for a camping trip with our friends. Work was quite busy and I had started to catastrophise. I had started thinking about like, oh god, what if our lease doesn't get renewed? We were trying to record two episodes this session, and we were also starting to think about what the rest of our year would look like. I was feeling pretty unorganized and overwhelmed myself. And then at the same time as experiencing this in my life, we're reading this book, which for a large chunk of it takes the format of just brain dumps from this girl, just being like, OMG, new list. Wait, hang on a second. So crazy, I think I'll type this. Another list. Holy pepperoni. Holy pepperoni. And I had such a strong reaction. I was like, piss off. Just piss off with your lists. Just keep it to yourself. Formulate the thought. Then come back and just give us one list. Give us a hypothesis, please. I can't see you work through this. And by work through this, you mean accuse 17 different people and then have a lucky guess at the end. All that said though, I did kind of like that. She was like, I'm working on vibes and random guesses alone. I'm so smart, but nothing I ever say is bugged up with any evidence. Oh, so I do have to say, like in my notes, I have a note that says, I can admit I'm not fun and I don't like this style of book at all. But same as you, I was trying to put my YA blinkers on. Would I have liked it as a kid? Probably. I don't know if I would have liked it as a kid because I found Pip to be irresponsible and unsafe. She's constantly putting herself in unsafe positions. And even as a teenager, younger than however old Pip is meant to be, I would have been like, Can you not walk into a drug dealer's house and just be like, hey, I took photos of you? This is so stupid. So I don't think I would have liked it as a teenager. I think I would have been more offended by it. I would have had no thoughts. I would have been like, yeah, I'm sick of adults telling us what we can and can't do. How did you feel the format of the book translated to an audiobook? Like with all of the little interview memos and the journals and like the change between first person and third person narration. I thought at times it was a bit hard to understand what they were saying. In the like the voice memo sort of brain dumps, it was very crackly, and I just I don't know, sometimes I was like, What? Just speak up, love. I can't hear what you're saying. Like I felt like this old woman. I'm so relieved to hear you say that. Otherwise, I did enjoy like hearing the voice memo beeps and you know, like newsroom sounds, maybe uh like police rooms. I don't know. I thought they were good, but I'm not really a big fan of like dramatized audiobooks anyway. I sort of just prefer just more more of a straightforward production. Yeah. Just read the book, respect the text. Yeah, I wanted to enjoy it because it made me feel really unfun and old to just not be able to get behind it like I did find it kind of hard to listen to and a little bit distracting. And I yeah, like I just had to own it wasn't for me. Overall, like it wasn't much of a hindrance. Like reading the book was way better than listening to the audiobook. I agree. But even then, I was like, this text is kind of small. The contrast isn't that high. I'm only 30. I saw a Goodreads review from Charlie, C-H-A-R-L-Y. From the moment she said Holly Pepperoni, I realised I was too old to be reading this book. One star, and there's one tag, and it is pain. Well, it sounds like you have some pretty strong feelings about Pip, so would you like to take the lead on a little discussion about our protagonist? She's like Rory Gilmore, but like all of her worst traits. There's none of the cuteness of like Chilton Rory. You know, it's a teenager who thinks she can do whatever she wants with no consequences and then is like shocked when there's consequences. She doesn't admit defeat or ask for help when she so obviously needs help. I mean, personally, I think it's an irresponsible role model for children. Like, you know, I get that she's responsible and the parents trust her and blah blah blah, but I don't know, I just feel like she just made so many bad choices but never learnt from them. Like she would, you know, manipulate somebody to get some information, feel bad about it, but then do it again without a second thought. You know, she'd call someone using her actual phone, afterward think, maybe I shouldn't have done that, but then she does it again. Even just like something as simple as when she called the drug dealer to confirm that it was him, she didn't check her phone was on silent. She was like, oh shit. Like, did she have a lock on her computer? I just was really frustrated by her. I was really frustrated by her too. I have so many things to say. I found her confidence and self-assuredness really jarring and a bit embarrassing, which kind of made me feel like I'm already one of those old people that are like, young people don't know what they're on about, or you're too young to understand, or like you'll understand when you're older, you can't solve murders. But you can't. No. She was making bad choices, as you said. She got lucky. She really did. She got so lucky. I was thinking that too, but then I did Google the age of the author, and I was like, Oh, well, she's older than us, so I feel fine about that. I just didn't really understand Pip or know that much about Pip. Her whole project was based on her being like, I don't know. I just think he's a good guy. He was kind of nice to me once. Her whole personality was based around like she does homework and she's a good girl. To the extent that she had multiple times where she was like, hmm, maybe I'm not really a good girl after all. Oh, hmm. Maybe I'm not really sorry, the sorry America. Again. Again. Copping flack for something that wasn't even you. Sorry, I guess I'm not really a good girl after all. I'm gonna go walk my dog in the woods. My dog's dead. Flipping that. I didn't put my dog on a leash. This is what happens when you walk a dog, not on a leash. Doggy dead. It's a doggy dog world out there. Doggy do's and doggy don'ts, doggy wills and doggy won't. She's meant to be so virtuous. She's meant to be like doing her homework, seeing the good in people, academically achieving, but the reality is that she's so morally corrupt. She's blackmailing, she's breaking and entering, she's impersonating, she's like catfishing, I guess. Couldn't give a shit about any of her friends. Like, when do we ever, when does she ever talk to them? Why even bother mentioning them? And then at the end, when shit gets hard and she has a tough choice to make. Like, do the properly right thing and implicate your friends a little bit, mess up their lives, make things a bit unpleasant and tough. Black the real world. She's like, no, shan't. You've suffered enough. And and me, a 17-year-old girl, is equipped to make that decision. And then while there's a man who's a paraplegic because of these stupid teenagers. So true. And then she keeps doing the freaking like Serena Vanderwoodson, like, I have to go kind of thing. Because like she starts this murder investigation being like, I want to prove that Sal didn't murder Andy. I'm gonna uncover the real killer. What does she think that means? Because the second shit starts getting real, she's like, I never knew, I didn't expect this, I didn't think this would happen. I can't deal with this. I just can't. I need to I need a break. And like, granted, yeah, she's a child. And maybe she didn't actually think she was gonna solve it. And look, I did have to keep saying to myself, she is a child. This is a book written for children. But this EPQ is meant to be like a 5,000-word dissertation. If she didn't think she was gonna solve it, what the hell was she going to write 5,000 words on? Well, I know what she could have written it on, and we will talk about that later because she's just making poor choices left, right, and centre. There was a lot of surface level stuff, a lot of setting up for the series. I'm not really quite sure how book deals work, but I would assume that if you have a book you would like for it to become a series, I assume you would do some sort of grand scale plot planning, etc. I'm not sure. I don't think that you would really write one book and then they'd be like, hey, hey kid, you want a sequel? Like I feel like that probably doesn't happen all that often. It's a fine line between building that foundation and groundwork for a series and just cashing in on alternate point of views of the same story, which I think is a growing phenomenon as we keep seeing with Icebreaker. You know, there's a few Ali Hazelwood books that are connected, even like Emily Henry to an extent, like they're sort of connected. Taylor Jenkins Reed books. I don't think that's like a good thing stylistically. I'm not interested in reading about that, but I'm just not sure how strongly I feel about this one because it is a series, and the story is going to progress in a new way. It's not the same thing or not different characters, but so much time was spent, like the reporter, detailing things about him, and then he was just never even really relevant to the rest of the book. And I just feel like obviously that's gonna happen in the second or the third book. Yeah, so many loose ends and so many things where you're like, You received threats from these people. You would surely want to tidy that up a little bit. Yeah. At the very start of the book, her teacher is like, under no circumstances are you to contact the family. Should be an unspoken rule. It's astonishing to me that she did that. Well, it's astonishing to me that this was approved because I did research on this EPQ and it shouldn't have been approved. And it it should have been sh like within the rules of the EPQ, they have supervisors, they have checkpoints. There's no way that they would, especially with something like this, would they let just let this girl unsupervised go on for an undisclosed length of time with no one there to check to reel her in to remind her of like the ethical rules that she's breaking? This is how they assess the potential of a proposal. Yes, hit me. Number one, does the working title of the project and proposed action allow the student to investigate and to access the higher level concepts and skills in the assessment objectives? Plan, research, analyze, evaluate, and explain rather than simply describe and narrate? I would say no, it doesn't. Because all she's doing is going to have conversations and then describing them. Number two, are the working title and proposed action clear and focus on an issue which can be managed within the timescale, available resources and word total? No, once again, you don't have any DNA testing, you don't have any evidence, you don't have access to the families because having access to them would be unethical. Number three, does the working title and proposed action indicate that the student will be capable of investigating and researching the topic or carrying out the activity or task independently, safely and ethically? No, no, no. She's a child, it's unsafe, it's unethical. Number four, is there a danger that the student will be unable to approach the project impartially and in a balanced way? She's lost her damn mind. She's obsessed with Sal, she's part of the community. That is not unbiased, that is not impartial. And number five, is a student likely to face difficulties understanding the concepts associated with the project topic? Yes, somebody was killed. Somebody killed themselves. This is not appropriate for a school assessment. There is no way this would have been approved. But he was a nice boy. I don't think he would have done it. There is no way. And so then with the reviews after it was approved, this is what should have happened. I should have met with the student to review initial ideas. They should have agreed on the title and proposal and complete the supervisor's sections in the production log, and then they have to meet with the student for regular reviews, including at least a meeting, a planning review, a midterm review, and a project product review. None of those things happened. If any teacher saw that production log or whatever she called it, pull the plug immediately. And it was stressing me out because she didn't even really have a cover story. I think like the only cover she gave to someone at some point was like something to do with like the media's role in reporting on the murder investigation. Which I think is actually what she should have done. Because like the character of Sal and the character of Ravi or their family, they're Indian. It's mentioned in passing. It's mentioned by the reporter. And also when she's like, let's break into this house, and he's like, actually, I probably can't do that. Yeah. Because I'm a brown kid. And that is an interesting story. That is an interesting story about a brown kid being framed for the murder of his white girlfriend that was like put on this podium. Like we did uncovered that she's like a truly terrible seeming person, although I would like to know more about her. And that is your EPQ. Like the role of like racism in crime reporting or racism in the media, racism in like small town England, I don't know, whatever you want to call it. That that is a predominant theme and issue in this story that's like not really explored at all. A hundred percent. And there's no reason why, in doing that as her EPQ, would not have led her to the same realization. Like she could have either, like, she could have used that as a cover story. She had no cover. She did nothing. It's ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. This is a review from Franzi from April 16, 2021 on Goodreads, and they gave this book a one-star review, and they said, genuinely asking myself why I read this. This book had it all. Bad writing, a completely unrealistic plot, white saviour trope, I'm not like other girls, and probably the most annoying main character I have ever read about. For some reason, this teenager is allowed to start a massive murder investigation where every possible witness tells her everything without her having to work for it. And of course, she ends up doing what the police couldn't. The whole premise was just so unrealistic and unbelievable that I was annoyed from the very first page. The mystery itself was also barely a mystery at all. The pacing was off, things made no sense, and everything was terribly convenient. Pippt kept making random decisions until she finally guessed the right person. Pip had no personality traits aside from her constant need to save everyone, because she was such a good person and better than everyone else, which the rem reader was reminded of every second page. It never explained why any of these people talk to Pip and basically tell her their entire life stories, or even why she cares enough to launch this entire investigation. Her character has no development. At the end of the novel, she's still exactly as annoying as she was on the very first page. Which is so true. It's so true. I think that's why I'm struggling to figure out how I feel about it. Because I think as I went through these things, although they were popping into my mind, it wasn't like stopping me from reading the book, and it honestly wasn't really even stopping me from enjoying the book. I'm fully aware of what a loser it makes me seem like to be ranting and raving about the ethics of her school project, which is completely made up. Like I know it's a book, I know it's made up, I know that her making these random guesses is what moves the story along. I know there's a point where you have to like suspend disbelief. And I agree with this reviewer that Pip has no personality traits, and I don't understand why people hang out with her and the events of the story unfold in a mighty convenient way, and I feel like a little bit insane for picking it apart and criticizing it so loudly when the reality is like I also didn't care. Yeah, and I think for me this comes back to once again it being YA. Yeah. Because I'm like, oh well it's not as serious if it's young adult fiction. Obviously, not all young adult fiction or not every book has to have a lesson. I do think it was a missed opportunity to explore racial profiling by the police or how media coverage differs between white people and people of colour. But the rest, I was along for the ride, honestly. Like, and you know me, I've never once guessed the plot of like a murder mystery or whatever. And so when Pip was like, oh my god, maybe it's this guy, I was like, Yeah, I'm that is actually really adding up. And that's super crazy, Pip, because you just found out that clue today, and like I'm putting the puzzle together at the same time as you. And then next day she'd be like, Oh my god, just found out this crazy news that changes everything. And I was like, Oh, so true, Pippa. I think you're scratched that last idea, like this is where the money's at. I don't want to brag, but I didn't guess it was the father, and I knew he would have someone he didn't somewhere. You knew he'd have someone, I didn't guess that. I thought it would be Andy, I didn't guess the plot twist, and I didn't guess that the sister was involved. So I was like not really right, but I knew the father had something to do with it from the start, I think. Because the biscuits kept disappearing, and I was like, Why are we hearing about these biscuits all the time? And I was like, He's got a sim card, the photo was found in the classroom. Well, when you say it like that, Bridget, sure. But but I was doing the same thing as you. I was every time she was like, it could be this, I was like, Yeah, that sounds right to me. I was doing that. Yeah, yeah, Pip. I sort of thought maybe the sister had some involvement. And when she was suspicious of the dad, I was like, Yeah, pervert probably was like hooking up with this underage girl. Yeah. And then when it kind of seemed to move on from him, I was so ready to let it go because in Pretty Little Liars, it's Lucy Hale's character has a relationship with her teacher and they try so hard for you to be into it. And so I was like, Oh, thank God we don't have to actually like pretend that this is okay. I was so ready to move on from it. Before I read the audiobook, I was really thinking that she was like quirky and lovable in like an annoying way, but also quite endearing. Just forever cringing whenever I was reading her thoughts or whatever. Like when she went to the party and she'd looked up all of the terms for marijuana on Urban Dictionary. I wanted to not read this anymore. I just thought this is so embarrassing. Like, have you never met a person in your life? There's no way you like just talk normally for once. Like, you're trying to be cool, you're trying to be undercover. What is going on here? That was something that I was thinking about as well. The writing of her, I think she seemed a lot younger than 17 years old. But I don't understand why the author bothered including such a large group of friends that were barely mentioned. Like, why even include the boys? And honestly, why even include Lauren? Yeah, I can't remember either of the boys' names, and I could not remember Lauren until you just said it. Yeah. And then like Kara was probably my most hated character in this whole book. I wished she would shut up so badly, and especially so after listening to the audiobook. Why was she always answering the door being like, hey chica? Hey, chica. That was more like it. Were they learning a different language? Or what's the go? I I think I missed something. It was really giving me Tracy McMean, the famous inventor. And I hate that. I hated Tracy McMean. Whatever she was saying, whether she was saying, like, please don't dob my sister in for doing something horrible, like, please let her get away with this horrible thing that she did. Or like, hey, do you know where the biscuits are? She had the same tone in that narrator's voice. Like it was the same, oh, it was excruciating. I think it's such a double-edged sword sometimes with an audiobook, because obviously, when you're reading, you get to put your own tone onto the scenes. And I think sometimes I've gained a lot from listening to an audiobook, and I've found that it's really like enriched a story that I wasn't really so much enjoying reading. But I think even with that scene where she was listing the different names for marijuana, I feel like that could have been delivered in maybe a bit more of a like an alien, like Aubrey Plaza, like how do you do, fellow children kind of vibe. But it was so earnest, which I know people love. I crawled out of my skin when I was reading it. She was funny. It's not like she didn't know how to make a joke or she didn't know how to banter with people. Like it was just whenever it seemed important, she lost that ability, and maybe she was nervous. But if she's so precocious and she's so all-knowing and smart, I think that she should have been able to like code switch a bit better than what she did. Her first conversation with Ravi was excruciating. Yes. Jiffy. Do you know that means a hundredth of a second? She goes to see him right after she signs the form saying that she will not contact any of the victims and whoever people involved, their family. Off she goes to visit the family. Hi, Ravi, she said. I you don't know me. I'm Pippa Fitzimobi. I was a couple of years below you at school before you left. Okay. I was just wondering if I could borrow a jiffy of your time. Well, not a jiffy. Did you know a jiffy is actually an actual measurement of time? It's one one hundredth of a second, so maybe you can spare a few sequential jiffies. Oh god. This is what happened when she was nervous or backed into a corner. She started spewing useless facts dressed up as bad jokes. But I just couldn't deal with it. It was so embarrassing. But I just like it was just the voice. It was the voice. It was the voice. I do not hate the accent. I hate the tone. Like shrill. Shrill and It was very like, well, actually, my lady if I could have a minute of your time. And also, like, what a note to start the book on because I was thinking, if someone in my family was a suspected murderer and then they had allegedly committed suicide, and I never got closure on that, and some random high school kid rocked up on my front door and was like, because I don't think they did it, I would be like, piss off, never speak to me again, or I'm calling the police. Yes. And the story would never happen. Can you imagine? No. I mean, I cannot. Would anyone ever do this? No. It's so unrealistic. Like when you think about the kind of internet sleuths that exist, like the conspiracy theorists and the like true crime podcast addicts. Yes. I don't want to be associated with that. Uh-uh. Not to say they don't do good work. Probably the last thing that I can think of at the moment to say about Pip is again just like one of the truly like screwed up decisions she makes. And that is to drag Sal's brother, Ravi, through a pretty evocative reenactment of Andy's murder. And there is a line after they've acted out most of it, they go into the woods to Mime like dragging her body and like burying her and stuff. And she's like, uh, let's give Sal 40 seconds to kill her. Absolutely disgraceful. Disgraceful. Also, the ridiculous thing is that she's had all these threats at this point, and she's like, oh, we better keep this under wraps. Let's traipse around town doing the exact same thing that everybody knows happened six years ago when your brother killed that girl. Let's go do that right now. It's chill, it's chill. In my recognizable blue bug car, because of course she's got a blue bug car. Like, what a surprise. I don't really have much to say about Ravi. Mainly because I think he was sort of flat, two dimensional. Uh, I don't really know much about him. I hate to be the person again who doesn't like the female main character, and when it comes to the male, I'm like, yeah, whatever, he was fine. But I think I liked him. I got them together. I thought they were a good pair. What did you think? I liked him well enough until they got together. And then I was a bit freaked out. Yeah. Because I think in the book she's 17 and he is 20. She's a very young, she seems so juvenile. A young 17. And 17 is just young. Just made me think, why? Also, they put a bit of time in between. Was it three months or something? So I feel like maybe that was oh, and I've had my birthday. I'm 18. But like she could have just made her 18. Yeah. It would have been less weird. He could have been like a year older than her. Exactly. Why did he have to be that much older? It was strange. It's just it just comes back to that thing of like, why are you an adult man dating someone in school? I cannot even imagine how boring that would be. For someone who is out of school to have to hang around with someone who is still in school. Like you've passed that in your life. You've moved on. You don't have to hear about that anymore. Can you imagine like coming home from your job and then you're like hearing, oh yeah, no, because like so legit, like what happened was like Sarah and I were like, okay, I'll save you a seat like in science and like we'll sit together in science. Like we're gonna be a group, and like we'd organise for like the five of us to be a group. And then Ashley was legit like, okay, so like I've paired up with Sarah Michelle. And then Sarah Michelle was like, giving me this look, like what a bitch. And I was like, What the fuck? Mr. Fitzsimmons was like, girls, can you focus on the work? And we were like, um, sir, we're actually just trying to sort out something really important right now. It just like really annoyed me. Your brain would melt. They would shit me. And he has a real job. Like, he works at a pub. You know, he doesn't think that's his forever job, blah, blah, blah. But still, he's an adult. And like, you know, these kids are going to these parties, these stupid, stupid house parties that they've given a stupid name to. Calamities. He is a real man who has a real ability to buy alcohol. Why would he want to be hanging around 17-year-olds who would be running for the bushes every time a police car would come near them? It would not be a fun thing for him. I get he has no other friends because his brother is this alleged murderer, but still. I really liked them as a duo. I thought they were a good detective pair. I really liked that she was the driver of their relationship. She was the one taking action, the one getting stuff done. He was just there for support and good vibes. I liked the dynamic. And I thought as it progressed, like, oh, I think I'm getting kind of like a crush, romantic vibes between these two. I don't know. I was just really shocked when he kissed her at the end. All we get is like, he kissed me. It was nice. I've been enjoying his kisses or something. Two things when I searched A Good Girl's Guide to Murder that made me think was is a good girl's guide to murder spicy? And throughout the book, I was like, God, I hope not. The further in we got, the more I was like, please, God, no, I don't. I can't read that, please. So I was very relieved there. But another thing when I was putting together some research for the show was when I typed in Ravi, it was like Ravi and Pippa age gap. And so I feel like it's telling that it's a thing that clearly quite a few people have been like questioning. Yeah. Apart from that, I would say the only other character I truly hated was Pip's little brother. Yep. Once again, we're hating on a kid. Don't want to hear anything about it. I'm fully aware of it. Stop putting kids in books. Oh, he was so annoying. And you're so right. Like the dad was a good time until you listened to the audiobook. I really wanted to love him, this like loud, stomping man who's a lawyer, and like he's so cool, but he's stupid the stupid things he said and the stupid way the narrator said he said it. All I can think is like, hello, Pippo! Shut it, please. Oh god, we don't want to hear it. My Pipscle, you were too clever to recycle a joke. Pickle, pickle. Even when she was like at the end, she'd just been roofied, she had just run through the woods and she was strangled. He was still like, pickle, pickle, pickle.

Bridget 48:26

Shut it.

Laura 48:28

Two things really freaked me out about this book. So, as is known, I don't like thrillers or scary things. I watched the Blair Witch project at a sleepover in grade seven, and that was the time that I knew that this was not the life I was gonna lead because I was very scared. It's a scary movie, to be fair. In the last few years, for some reason, Maddie and I watched Silence of the Lambs, and I was so scared. Halfway through, I decided that I would have to manage myself, and I just Googled what happened, and I read the synopsis, and then I could watch the rest of the movie without being worried about what was gonna happen and like my reaction to it. There's no reason for me to be scared by these fake things, but I was very scared. Um, last night when I was reading this, I was getting scared. Before the dog was kidnapped, just before then, I was considering Googling what happens. I got scared by the camping when the person was watching them in the trees. I got scared by the threatening notes. I was like, you need to calm down, Pippa. Get out of here. This is so unsafe. It was freaking me out, and I didn't want to read it. I didn't want to read the rest of it. So I was like, if I just Google it, then I will know what happens, then I can just read it. I can rest easy. When the dog was kidnapped, then I sort of got over that a bit because I was like, oh, it's just you know, it's a dog, like very sad, but a person's not dying. Tell that to the reviewers, it popped up a lot. Yeah, I mean it was sad. I was like, oh my god, when I read it, and I did feel sad for the poor, poor little Barney, but I wasn't really scared after that. The second thing that really freaked me out was Andy has the same last name as me, and her father's name is Jason, and my father's name is Jason. And so every time they were like, Jason Bell killed his daughter, I'm like, Dad? What did you do? Papa. It was really unsettling. I didn't even think about that. I do feel like I was sufficiently sucked in by the mystery. It's like, again, can't really complain. It was on my level, I was satisfied. Yeah. I took some stabs, I got like maybe 10% right. I enjoyed the journey. I do think I like a mystery where it's like, okay, you not only solve the major crime, but you uncover some other shit along the way. Like I enjoyed the hit and run, I enjoyed Max Hastings' subplot, which I did call. I was like, this guy's roofing people, he's got it written all over his smarmy little face. I think you spoke briefly about the calamity parties before, but that embarrassed me so much. When he was so impressed with she was like, Oh cool, like I've got a legacy. And I think I had listened to that part as an audiobook because his accent saying, like, oh yeah, the calamity parties. Yes. Yeah. Up until I'd listened to the audiobook, I was kind of picturing him as like, yeah, the calamities, like, oh yeah. And I it's slightly better. And it also was giving me secondhand embarrassment because it's such a teenage thing to do, but just to like give something a name that doesn't need a name. Yes. Just remembering, you know, instead of having a 16th birthday, we're having like a sweet 16 superhero rave dance party or something. I didn't like it at all. Do you have any extra random rapid fire bits that you would love to talk about? This passage on page 23 I thought was really funny, and it's when Kara and Pip go to Lauren's house to mend Lauren's king-sized broken heart, and they're trying to make her feel better. And it says Pip broke Lauren off another line of chocolate. Plus, Tom always said pacifically when he meant specifically. Kara clicked eagerly and pointed at Pip in agreement. Massive red flag that was. I pacifically think you're better off without him, said Pip. I Atlantically think so too, added Kara. Just you know, little funny jokes like that. Only like smart people like Pippa, they get it, but it's funny. I think it's funny too, and I agree that it that is a red flag. One of the random things that shitted me about this book was that they went camping in the rain without a tent. And I was just picturing them like with a tarp and a gazebo, just out in the elements, and they were like, it's gonna be fine. No, it's not. It's not. It's funny because pretty much every time I've been to England, I've had to go to some sort of agricultural show in the rain, in the mud, in one of those marquees, and it's horrific. Like it's cold, it's windy, it's muddy, it's squelchy. It was so dumb. Like, why would you not you have a marquee? You obviously have a tent. Who just has a marquee ready to go at any time? Idiot. You kissed me off. It didn't make any sense. It was so dumb. The floor would be like the ground would be sopping and cold. Stupid, stupid children. And I don't know why they stayed there after that person was watching them in the woods. I know. Get out of there. You will die. Even if you're drunk, walk. Call somebody. Yeah, absolutely ridiculous. Insane. Another thing that I took a little gamble with was going on the websites that she included in her citations. And I have to say it was a bold move because they were pretty dodgy, like you know, unpurchased domains, like pretty weird links. And that pissed me off as well because at some point in the book she was bragging about how her referencing is so good. Didn't she learn how to do it in kindergarten? Is that what she said? Something like that. Something outrageous like that. And I just was like, well, hang on a second, Pip, because all you've done is chuck a link in your footnotes, and that's all well and good. But actually, the reader doesn't have all the information they need to get back to that source. They don't know who wrote it, they know where it came from, but that link doesn't work anymore. They don't know when you found it, they don't know what it's called, they don't know anything they need. And so I just think like if you're so smart, if you're so smart, Pip, sort it out.

Bridget 54:30

Yeah.

Laura 54:31

Do your referencing properly, please. Because she did say something at the start. Note yourself, do referencing now so it doesn't become a big chore later on. I mean, good advice. That is great advice, but you didn't do it. Words to live by. Yeah, now look what's happened, Pip. Thanks for nothing. Have to go fix the whole book. Alrighty, now it is a good girl's time to pick their favourite and least favourite characters. Bridget, who is your favourite character? Honestly, I couldn't tell you. Ravi's mother. Because she made a curry and didn't annoy me. It was very generous of her to bring that over. It was nice.

Bridget 55:06

I feel bad for her. How about you? Who's your favourite character?

Laura 55:09

Um, well, don't freak out, but I think my favourite character is probably Pip. I've said a lot of negative and awful things about her, and I was truly astonished by her choices and the way she lives her life. I think she uses her privilege for evil and honestly doesn't uplift and amplify minorities and call out injustice in the way she so clearly believes. She just likes to bring them with her when she breaks and enters and recreates murders. But I did enjoy her no thoughts, just vibes approach to solving a murder. And on that basis alone, I think it was a fun time exploring this story through her eyes. Yeah, and look, give her 10 years. I think she would be so interesting. I think she would have done so much, she would have like really interesting things to say. It's just 17-year-old Pippa, I can't handle. But you know, give it 10 years, I think she would be great. That is a great call. Get get back to us in 10 years. What about your least favourite character? I mean, I was gonna say Pip, but then I remembered we were reading a book about murderers. Dang, they got you there. Yeah, I think Max. Yeah, he was super slimy.

Bridget 56:23

Bad guy.

Laura 56:24

I would probably have to say Kara's dad slash the man that had an a relationship with a minor almost killed her, freaked out, and locked up a random for a number of years. And lied so easily. So easily. Not a fan, not a fan. I also think it was quite unrealistic how we just told Pippa everything straight away. Like I thought there would have been more of a struggle or like I mean, who didn't tell her everything straight away? Who's asking? Alright, I'll give you everything you need to know. Okay, well, all this being said, do you rate a good girl's guide to murder lit or shit? I rate it lit. I still enjoyed it. I still had a good time. I thought it was pretty smashable. Her kind of journal entries reminded me a little bit of my own diaries at the time, so I think overall I found it kind of charming, kind of nostalgic, and overall quite fun. How about you? I think the book is lit and the audiobook is shit. Yeah. Good call. Yeah. I think it's gotta be a two-way, but the book definitely lit. I have big regrets for dabbling in the audiobook. Yeah. Sorry about that. It's fine. I'm supporting the avid reader bookshop in Brisbane. That's good. That's good. At least I didn't buy it on Amazon. That would have made me feel worse.

Bridget 57:40

We've come to the end of our episode on A Good Girl's Guide to Murder by Holly Jackson. Our next bonus chapter will be on Manicled by Senlin Yu. Have your say on what we read next by keeping an eye on the link in our show notes and on our socials. Make sure you subscribe to the show, and if you want to be on the same page as us, follow us at talklet.get on Instagram and TikTok.