bad characters, no plot and 100% vibes - bonus chapter: the summer I turned pretty by jenny han

what’s better than being forced into adventure and a quest to find the great perhaps by a manic, pixie, dream girl? BEING the manic pixie dream girl, of course (sort of)! this episode we’re reading the summer I turned pretty by jenny han in a bid to chase those long forgotten emotions of teenage whimsy and dating three guys in the span of a summer. we debate team conrad or team jeremiah, ask if we should expect more of teenagers and the dissect the urge to juuuuust keep swimming.  

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Transcript

Laura 0:00

Went down to the beach with Conrad and he had sand in his pants. He needs his glasses. He can't see without his glasses.

Bridget 0:11

Conrad can't see without his glasses. Carney, baby, that is 100% your look. Hello and welcome to a talk lit get hit bonus chapter. The little book chats in between the big ones. We'll talk about reading authors and have discussions with people who, like us, can't shut up about books.

Laura 0:30

We might get sidetracked and talk about literally anything else, but this is a bonus chapter we wrote just for you. Last episode we discussed the theme Manic Pixie Dream Girl and touched on our own adolescent desires to embrace whimsy and propel the males in our lives to enlightenment. With that in mind, we thought the perfect book to read to channel that teenage dream would be The Summer I Turned Pretty by Jenny Hahn. Bridget, hello, hello. Hello, hello, how are you? I am so well.

Bridget 0:57

I'm so excited to talk about The Summer I Turn Pretty.

Laura 1:00

I feel like you have a pretty long and fairly well documented history with this book series.

Bridget 1:06

Yes, I have wintered about this book many, many times, especially the third book. The third book is definitely my enemy, so lucky we're not talking about that one today because I mean we've we've got other things to do today that might take off our whole day. But I was also a little bit confused about this book because this whole time I was like, yeah, I got the book for Christmas one year, and then I was like, oh my god, I need to read the rest of them. And then I went at the shop on Boxing Day and I got the rest of them, but that wasn't this series at all. It was actually To All the Boys I've Love Before.

Laura 1:36

Well, well, well.

Bridget 1:38

I know, isn't that funny? And also didn't actually make the connection that they're by the same author. No, honestly, me either, until you said that. So funny. So when we decided we were gonna read this, I was like, I'll just go to my shelf and get the book. And I was like, I don't have this book. What? What the hell have I been talking about all this time? So I read this in May 2022. That is very interesting, and you really do have to wonder what else is a lie. Well, I know because I don't want to get too far ahead of myself, but another book that we're recording the episode today, I was like, I haven't read that. And then I started reading the synopsis, and I was like, oh no, I have read this. So this might be early onset dementia or Alzheimer's, I don't know. Is it a cry for help? Maybe.

Laura 2:22

No, I don't say that. You read a lot, it's okay. Before we get too far into our discussion, it's probably a good time to say that we are gonna be talking about The Summer A Turned Pretty in great detail. We may even accidentally touch on some of the future books. So and the show. Yes, and the shows. So if you haven't read them or if you haven't watched it and you don't want it spoiled, pause the episode, do your reading and viewing, and come back and listen when you're ready. I'm gonna try my best to keep my thoughts strictly focused on the summer I turned pretty. But as you said, they are very short, very easy to get through, and I thought this is gonna help me reach my arbitrary reading goal. So I smashed through all three of the books one after the other. Sometimes you need to do that. You do, you do. And where does one end and the other begin? I don't know, I couldn't tell you. But I can tell you that this book was first published on the 5th of May 2009. I was surprised by this because the show came out in 2022, and so I thought this had been like an invention of I don't know, 2018-ish.

Bridget 3:30

Yeah, I was thinking like COVID 2020 sort of COVID slop. Well. So, first time read for you, Laura.

Laura 3:39

How did you end up feeling about it? I genuinely have no idea. I have been going in circles about this. I have no idea how I feel about this book because all I can think about is the show. So, have you watched much of the show? I've watched, I think, part way through season two. Okay. No, I was gonna say so. I definitely watched season one. Why would I say that? Yeah.

Bridget 4:02

I watched episode seven of season three. And I was like, what's going on?

Laura 4:08

Who are these people? But I have also seen parts of season three because my sister-in-law was watching it, so I sort of had a fair idea of what happened.

Bridget 4:17

I haven't watched any of the show formally. I've obviously seen many edits on TikTok, and then I watched a bit on YouTube. I watched Susanna's funeral more times than I'd cared to admit, just so I could watch Conrad sing that terrible song. Oh yeah, that was haunting. So I have seen that. I've seen bits. I feel like I've seen the highlights. Maybe we'll do a bonus chapter on the series one day. This is definitely a case of like a 50 shades kind of thing where the movie or the TV show is better than the source material because you have all of these like geniuses working at it to try to make you know the world come to life, and they've just hit everything perfectly. So from what I've seen, looks way better.

Laura 4:59

Yeah, hugely agree. I think that's exactly why I was struggling because the show has been expanded so much and it just has so much life. And I think like the place Cousins is so evocative, and like we'll get into it, but the casting is really fantastic and the soundtrack is great. And I even like when I watched it, found myself Googling things like where Belly's bedsheets from. Like it just I want that live. The mums have storylines and their own personalities and struggles, and there are scenes like the dead ball that don't exist in the book. And so the book, it's not that much.

Bridget 5:39

No, it felt very flat, and I couldn't quite remember what happened. And I was thinking, is this it? Yeah, actually, once again, it was a little bit like when I reread Fifty Shades of Grape, because I remember reading that and thinking, where's the stalker? Like, when does she get the job in the publishing firm and nearly die? But that wasn't in the first book at all. And this is what I thought when I read this. I was like, nothing's really happened in this book. Like they go to one party, maybe two, already forgotten, read it a week ago, and not much else was going on. I genuinely can't remember either.

Laura 6:08

It was like half a book. Having said all that, I think if I had read it aged 14, 15, I think I would have really liked it. Because criticisms aside, I think depressingly, a lot of Belly's internal monologues were depressingly similar to mine of that time period.

Bridget 6:27

I also think it's like the ultimate childhood holiday fantasy. Like, go to the beach, have all of these people, like these hot people obsessed with you. Also, like obviously, Susanna and Laurel, but mainly Susanna, I think have a lot to answer for for Belly's behaviour. But I think that if I was a mum and my best friend had kids, I would be exactly the same. I think so too. I would be like, oh my god, you guys should totally date, and then we could be together forever. And we have to go on every holiday together, and we have to live in the same house, guys. So I am here like, yes, book sucks, but I would do the same thing as probably every character in the book, unfortunately. Maybe I'm just seeing myself reflected in a way that I don't want to see.

Laura 7:11

I loved Susanna, I think she was my favorite character. I think it is again that thing that I often talk about where you're being picked out as being special. It's what I liked about Twilight, and I think it's what I would have liked about this book as well. Being noticed and favored and told you're like beautiful and special and getting a nice little necklace or whatever from Susanna, or yeah, being noticed by the boys, even maybe a little bit like being in competition with your friend. Like, I reckon those it's not a flattering assessment, but I think it would have resonated with me.

Bridget 7:46

I think the part of the book that really resonated the most for me was swimming. I love swimming, and I never go swimming every day. I'm thinking about my time wild swimming. And I just want a house with a pool and I want to be able to swim. And when I was reading this, it was like not hot, it was a little bit cold that day, actually. I think it's been quite rainy and stormy. I think it was one of those days. And I was like, I'm going swimming right now. And then I was like, let's go swimming to Brian and Maddie, and they were like, um, maybe not right now, because it's like six o'clock on a Thursday night, but maybe on the weekend, and then I was like, swimming, swimming. And so then on Saturday we were gonna go swimming, and Brian was like, actually, I kind of want to play World of Warcraft, and I was like, boring. And then we were gonna go the next day, but it was cold, and I still haven't been swimming. It wouldn't have stopped Belly, it wouldn't have stopped Belly, and reading this just after reading Looking for Alaska was quite good because I was like, this is part of the life that I want to create for myself. No phones, swimming all the time, just having a lovely time, doing fun things, like I'm on holidays 24-7. So another that that is a good thing about the book. It sort of inspired me a little bit to go swimming, and yet to go, but hopefully soon.

Laura 9:04

I felt a little bit inspired to go swimming too, and I think you're right. Reading this coming from reading Looking for Alaska was a good experience.

Bridget 9:13

Obviously, if we're talking about swimming, we have to talk about the actual house because I've seen many people say that Belly wasn't that interested in having Conrad or Jeremiah, but she was interested in having that beach house, and I a hundred percent agree with that because that what a vibe. Like the way it was described in the book, I think is a little bit different to how I've seen it on the show. On the show, it looks quite fancy, um, but in the book it seems so homey and cozy and lived in. Wouldn't that just be incredible to have that house at your disposal? She is a house hungry grub.

Laura 9:51

And good for her. Yeah, I completely back you. Shall we talk about our leading lady, Belly? Conklin.

Bridget 10:10

Sorry. Stupid name. Okay. I have to say most of the one-star reviews that I read were about the fact that her name is Belly. A few good ones. This one's from Elle. If my name was Isabel and my mum nicknamed me Belly, I like to think I'd have a very, very out-of-control, rebellious face. Agree. And another one from Amelie. This is actually a two-star. I hate stomach, I mean tummy, I mean abdomen, I mean belly.

Laura 10:45

It's not my favourite, that's for sure.

Bridget 10:47

And if your name is Belly, I'm sure it's very cute on you. I love that for you, but for this girl, hate it. Like Bella is right there. I know you said before that Belly's narration was similar to your inner monologue when you were that age, but I disagree. The way that she treats people and the the things that she thinks, the things that she says, like she's constantly rolling her eyes. I think that it's like a caricature of a teenage girl. I find it so unrealistic. She's so bratty, she's so rude, she's so annoying, and I don't understand why the boys like her. She's the worst person.

Laura 11:23

She's mean to everyone. She is kind of mean and she is kind of thoughtless. And I have seen almost nothing but hate for her characterization in the book online, but I really didn't feel any particular hatred towards her. Maybe that's because for some of this, I listened to the audiobook, which was narrated by Lola Tongue, who plays Belly in the show. And similar to what she does with the character in the show, she has this way of injecting personality into these thoughts that Belly is having that makes it seem like just one big fun joke. The way she talks, it's like she's holding back a smile constantly. I think if I hadn't watched the show and if I hadn't listened to her narration of the audiobook, I would have had a way worse time. It was like the opposite of um listening to Girl's Guide to Murder, because it made the overall reading experience better. But I reckon the words that are written on the page as they stand are pretty miserable.

Bridget 12:23

I think the portrayal of Belly as a selfish, bratty teenage girl is doing a disservice to teenage girls everywhere because while she's dealing with hard things like Susanna's cancer, trying to fit in and trying to find herself in a world and she's growing up and whatever, I think portraying her as a girl who only thinks about which brother am I going to kiss today is unfair because teenagers everywhere are dealing with these things and they are doing it in a thoughtful way. They're helping their family, they're kind to their friends, they are protective of their friends, they're protective of their little world, and I think it's a disservice to teens, and I think she could still be thinking about the boys and thinking about who she likes and whatever. But when something happens like Conrad is upset about his mother's illness, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a teenage girl who goes in for the kiss at that time. The things that she does feel like we're just saying, uh, stupid teenagers. But I don't think that's true.

Laura 13:30

I really don't think that teenagers are that selfish. I think you're right, and I think I'm really struggling to separate the book and the show. I think the show is much better at portraying the nuances and details of all of these situations, and unfortunately, my knowledge of that is seeping into my read of the book. But what is in the book simply isn't of any substance. Like her friendship with Taylor is a horrible friendship. I'm in the Taylor Hate Club, but I really should be in the Belly Hate Club too. And again, maybe I'm jumping a few books ahead. I honestly can't remember what it comes from, but like the way Taylor is portrayed is always talking down about other girls. It's calling them sluts, it's like she's out to get Belly's man. Her and Belly don't talk about anything other than boys. And also in her own inner monologue, Belly is just as critical and just as negative about Taylor and has no-tirls. Yes, other girls too. So I think you're right. Book Belly sucks. Yeah.

Bridget 14:31

I think it's a very 2009 view of girls. And I think it's like the same problem that I have when people say, uh, I'm just a girl. Stop diminishing yourself to be just a girl. You have lays, you have thoughts, you have feelings. I'm trying not to go like full Barbie monologue, but like it's she's a teenage girl, she contains multitudes. And why do we just have to hear about boys, boys, boys?

Laura 14:57

Does she have no other thoughts? It does seem like yet another case of a book that skips over the interesting or substantial parts of the story. Because dealing with grief or the death of a loved one, navigating a complex friendship as you're growing and changing, getting ready to finish up school, figuring out your relationship with your mother and like coming to see your mother as her own person, learning how to love and support the people who are important to you are all interesting and challenging and worthwhile things for teens to be reading about, but they're all sorely neglected in this book. I think I'm also getting a little bit confused between thinking that some of the writing or opinions in this book were accurate and reflective of the time and finding them good or responsible. There were a few sentiments in this book where I was like, you know what, I reckon I would have thought that in 2009, 2010, so therefore I think this is good because it's accurate, but that doesn't make it right. And I think a perfect example of this is when Cam, who is another of Belly's love interests, goes to kiss her and he says, Can I kiss you? Belly thinks, I wished he hadn't asked. I wished he'd just done it. Asking made everything feel awkward. It put me in a position where I had to say yes. I wanted to roll my eyes at him, but instead I said, Um, okay, but next time please don't ask. Asking someone if they want to kiss you is weird. You're supposed to just do it. And like I get it. But yeah. And I think I probably at that point in my life would have fallen into the like, just grab her by the face and kiss her.

Bridget 16:41

We do have to remember that these, like, they're 15-year-olds though. Like, diff if they were in a long-term relationship, sure. But this is a 15-year-old boy and a 15-year-old girl getting to know each other. I think that's quite a reasonable thing for him to say. How did you feel about Conrad? Actually, this is a good question.

Laura 17:01

Are you Team Conrad or are you Team Jeremiah? I mean, I'm always gonna be Team Sad Angsty Boy. Same. Yeah. Say what you will about what that says about me.

Bridget 17:18

Yeah, I agree. I'm also Team Conrad. I mean, not really in this book. I feel like in this book, neither of them are present in the story. Jeremiah is just annoying. Um, Conrad's rude, he's boring. Once again, he's dealing with a lot of things, so is Jeremiah, blah blah blah, but boring is really what I would say about him, and a little bit mean as well. And he is definitely two-dimensional in my mind.

Laura 17:45

Agreed. There's not that much to say about Conrad, and I do think he was mean. I came across this review, it's one of the top one-star reviews on Goodreads by someone named Ruth, and it says, I nearly melted when Conrad was introduced. That strong, silent, protective guy. Why, he was even sexier than Edward Cullen. And although he didn't sparkle, he certainly made up for it by his sorrowful brooding, which my heart sought out to. I mean, who doesn't understand when someone who is in pain turns to drinking and picking fights at parties? He was just very boring and he wasn't really breaking any boundaries. He was like the tortured guy that was like, I quit football. Hates his dad.

Bridget 18:25

I'm not throwing away my dream dad, I'm throwing away yours. I think also he's just at a different stage in his life than Belly was. Like he was 18, 19, like about to go to college. He's still 15.

Laura 18:38

I mean, it is like upon reflection, in hindsight, bad, bad, bad, not good. 15 is gross. That's gross. Me? Okay, I've never been the same since Angus Thongs and Perfect Stocking. So that was the blueprint for every kind of relationship I ever wanted. Yeah. That wasn't my point.

Bridget 18:59

What I was my point was that why would he care about her when he's got all this other shit going on? Like she's so delusional.

Laura 19:12

Yeah, like you said before, it's all anybody ever wants that summer house, summer romance, two hot boys to choose from, one's older. You've got the grumpy one and the sunshiny one.

Bridget 19:22

Yes.

Laura 19:23

And then even a third choice tacked on for fun, the boring one. Yeah. The the so here's the mic. Yes. And we've got the Jacob and the Edward.

Bridget 19:34

Oh, it is the blueprint. Yeah. Something that I was thinking the whole time. I mean, thinking about Conrad, and this applies to Jeremiah as well, is does she really know them? How long do you think she's there? Do we know how long they're there for? Like a month? Surely it couldn't be more. Like a month a year. And like by her own account, they don't spend that much time together because they're always off with Stephen and she's left out. So she doesn't really know these boys. Like she talks as though she owns them. She talks as though they're her best friends, but they don't speak outside of their holiday together. They're not writing letters, they're not messaging, they're not on MSN. She feels this ownership over them and she's so protective of them, which, like once again, teenage me would totally understand that, but you don't know them. There was a quote that I quite liked, and it said, I always wondered what the boys looked like in December. I tried to picture them in cranberry coloured scarves and turtleneck sweaters, rosy cheeked and standing beside a Christmas tree, but the image always seemed false. I did not know the winter Jeremiah or the winter Conrad, and I was jealous of everyone who did. I got flip-flops and sunburned noses and swim trunks and sand. But what about those New England girls who had snowball fights with them in the woods? The ones who snuggled up to them while they waited for their car to heat up. The ones they gave their coats to when it was chilly outside. Like one of the main quotes, I think it's probably in the trailer as well. For me, it was almost like winter didn't count. Summer was what mattered. My whole life was measured in summers. Like I don't really begin living until June, until I'm at that beach in that house. So you don't know them. They're not your best friends. They're people you see for a few weeks, a year, and they don't even like hanging out with you. They hang out with your brother.

Laura 21:10

It's a compelling argument. And she has also said, um, I could survive for months, years on a crush. Yes. Which, same girl. Like me too. But it's just a crush.

Bridget 21:22

Yes, and I also find it so funny because Taylor's really the only other person that's mentioned. Where's the rest of her life? What does she fill her time with? Like, she's like, I don't read, I don't play the piano anymore, I don't want to go see my dad because it's depressing going to see his tiny little house. Sorry, Daddy. Um, my brother sucks, my mom's annoying. What does she do when she's not at the beach house? Seemingly nothing.

Laura 21:46

Thinks about going to the beach house.

Bridget 21:47

She doesn't have TikTok, so what the hell is she doing?

Laura 21:51

That quote did make me think that insubstantial plot aside, and you know, shallow, hateful characters, I really did. actually like the writing. And I'm surprised I didn't see this on Tumblr because I think I would have re-blogged the shit out of a bunch of these quotes. Some that I highlighted are, it was like coming home after you'd been gone a long, long time. It held a million promises of summer and of what just might be. Another is the air tasted the same, smelled just the same. The wind making my hair feel sticky, the salty sea breeze, all of it just felt right. Like it had been waiting for me to get there.

Bridget 22:26

Back to that swimming thing again though, the way she described swimming, I was like, oh, I feel it.

Laura 22:33

Get me in the water. I wished for Conrad on every birthday. Every shooting star, every lost eyelash, every penny in a fountain was dedicated to the one I loved. I think there's a sweetness to her descriptions that's really well captured and like a kind of innocence that doesn't necessarily follow through to her actions.

Bridget 22:53

The things that she says gives me a lot of secondhand embarrassment. Like when she's like shut up Steven in front of everyone. Yeah, okay, you're not 10. You are 16.

Laura 23:04

Secondhand embarrassment is exactly the overwhelming feeling around a lot of the things in this book. And one section where I really felt that was when she was proclaiming her love for Conrad and she said I love Conrad and I probably always would. I would spend my whole life loving him one way or another. Maybe I would get married. Maybe I would have a family but it wouldn't matter because the peace of my heart the peace where Summer lived would always be Conrad. Meanwhile he doesn't care about her at all. He does not give two shits there were two quotes that really made me think of something we found a little bit cringy in looking for Alaska where Alaska and Miles manage to make a big kind of confessional moment after admitting that they get scared when it's dark. And the two quotes one says in the dark you can feel really close to a person. You can say whatever you want and another one said when you walk on the beach at night you can say things you can't in real life you can say whatever you want.

Bridget 24:12

You could say like sometimes when I look at crabs I think about elephants like just stupid shit.

Laura 24:21

Another good one is moments when lost can't be found again. They're just gone.

Bridget 24:28

Cool this whole time we've been talking it has been quite a struggle for me to restrain my thoughts about the second and the third book so I think possibly next year we should revisit them because there's so many things to be said about those books and just the absolutely batch it insane things that happen in those books. We need to leave it here and leave those thoughts for another time. But I think before we go we should probably do favourite character least favourite character and little shit. Something that we don't always do for bonus chapters but I think we have excellent fodder for this. So Laura who is your favourite character in The Summer I turn pretty um my favourite character is probably Susanna. She's sweet I want a mum's friend like Susanna I do like Susanna I like both of them but Laurel in this book was a little bit interesting to me because I don't remember much about her from the other books or the show like what I've seen from the show so maybe Laurel.

Laura 25:24

She is a lone voice of reason.

Bridget 25:26

Yeah very often yeah I think she's quite sensible need that influence in their life I think how about your least favourite character I kind of think it has to be Taylor which is maybe not a great assessment of me because obviously we're just seeing Taylor through Belly's lens which obviously isn't flattering I can't deny she pissed me off same mine has to be Belly I think like Taylor's a very close second but shut up Belly please get a brain and finally the most important question of all do you rate the summer I turn pretty by Jenny Hahn lit or shit?

Laura 26:08

I think it's gotta be shit. We've talked for so long and I'm still so confused because floating behind my eyes this whole time has just been stunning visuals of white sand and a great soundtrack and glittering water and I'm just so influenced by what I know of the show. If I didn't know anything I'm pretty sure this would have been a hollow empty void of a novel. So it's gotta be shit.

Bridget 26:34

How about you? Oh definitely definitely shit. When I first read it I think I read it at one star or maybe two and it was no thoughts just vibes which I think does sum it up a bit like vibes are the summer, the house the sand not going to school absolute vibes. Unfortunately there are no thoughts and if there are any they're bad. Can't wait to read the next one the next podcast book will be The Favorites by Lane Fargo. Have your say on what we read next by keeping an eye on the link in our show notes and on our socials. Make sure you subscribe to the show and if you want to be on the same page as us follow us at talklit.get on Instagram and TikTok My dad works for someone that they call stinky all that to say it could be worse he was he's like I went to Charleville with that's bullying not at all