#029- "Eleven Years Have Come and Gone"

In this episode, we get to hear from TMPA President Joe Tovar about his life journey and experiences in law enforcement. He shares his insights on leadership  and what led him to join the state board. Throughout the episode, Joe also shares heartwarming stories that have deeply impacted his life and others, offering a glimpse into the emotional side of law enforcement. He touches on important issues like mental health awareness, the lasting impact of critical incidents, and the value of emotional vulnerability in leadership positions. This promises to be a riveting journey through the life and career of President Joe Tovar, so hold onto your seats!

Chapters

• 0:04 Interview With Sergeant Joe Tobar
• 4:42 Life Journey
• 16:52 Navigating Law Enforcement Careers and Challenges
• 28:47 Police Associations
• 35:00 TNPA Board and Networking Opportunities
• 47:29 Compassion and Fulfillment in Law Enforcement
• 52:05 Impact of Critical Incidents on Law Enforcement
• 59:39 Leadership and Mental Health Awareness
• 1:04:22 Leadership, Woodworking, and Saving Heroes
• 1:15:00 Conference Announcement and Safety Reminder

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:04

If we find out that you're not a member, that doesn't mean we're going to wash our hands of you. We're going to take care of you as best we can, because that's what's right, and maybe we'll get a member out of that. I don't know, but it's the right thing to do.

Speaker 2 0:21

The karate job.

Speaker 3 0:23

You got it The karate job All right. We're rolling. Hey, tmp blue. We're at podcast, we're back. Have a VIP guest on today with your host, clint McNeer and tower. Oh, that was confident. Oh, that's not a good You like that.

Speaker 2 0:42

I said yeah, i said it with confidence, with confidence.

Speaker 3 0:46

Before we kick off, please like subscribe. Hit the bell for notifications. Tell somebody about it, share it, please, please, please, please, tweet it.

Speaker 2 0:59

You said sweet it. Tweet. Oh, they said sweet it.

Speaker 3 1:01

Tweet it. I guess they have a little nacho on my mouth. Tweet it, don't tick tock it.

Speaker 2 1:08

We don't tick tock and the tick tock.

Speaker 3 1:10

No, tell uh. introduce our guest to you.

Speaker 2 1:15

It's a good friend of mine, uh El Presidente of the Texas Municipal Place Association, sergeant Joe Tobar, with New Bronzeville Police Department, welcome to the blue great stage.

Speaker 1 1:29

So thank you for allowing me to come on here. I didn't realize that you guys were wanting to end the podcast so quickly. I haven't me on.

Speaker 2 1:37

No man, It means a lot for you to come on Um. I don't even know what's calling you, Is it?

Speaker 3 1:41

Sergeant President, joe Joe.

Speaker 2 1:44

Joe, i like that.

Speaker 3 1:45

I like that, sergeant.

Speaker 1 1:47

Joe, uh, I do need to clarify something. It's new Bronfels.

Speaker 2 1:51

Oh well, hey, I'm glad you're telling me this, because I'm moving to the area And so I need to know that. So it's not new bronze.

Speaker 1 1:57

No one S and no Z.

Speaker 2 1:59

Nope One S and no Z.

Speaker 3 2:01

Kevin tell you what County Jordan to net is in.

Speaker 2 2:04

Hey yeah. I learned that this week because I did the edits at a scosa. Oh thank you.

Speaker 3 2:11

There you go.

Speaker 2 2:12

I couldn't pronounce that last week in front of the sheriff. It was pretty, uh, it's pretty embarrassing.

Speaker 3 2:17

He put T's in it and it was at a scota, and that is all we're on that.

Speaker 2 2:21

It's new. It's new bronze.

Speaker 1 2:24

You already you already messed it up.

Speaker 2 2:25

New bronze full new Bronfels new Bronfels, yeah, okay. Close enough, close enough? Is it Komal?

Speaker 1 2:32

Yes.

Speaker 2 2:33

Okay, komal County, cause I used to say Komal, that's not how you pronounce it Either way. Well, i got, i got my ass jumped every day when I was in Wembley because I pronounced the wrong. I pronounced it wrong in this elderly woman that graduated from new, new, new, new Bron, new Bronfels There's only one answer to the end. Well, there's always like different names. Man, i'm from these texts.

Speaker 3 2:58

We say shit, just normal I do like the way you said Komal, it's like you're got a little French in there, yeah.

Speaker 2 3:04

Well, anyway, uh, she, she, she gave me a little lesson on how, how, how you pronounce it.

Speaker 3 3:09

So he's a Yankee moving from the north, that's true.

Speaker 2 3:13

Well, it is what it is.

Speaker 1 3:14

You know, Yankees are Yeah.

Speaker 2 3:16

Anyway, yeah, no man, you've uh, you've always uh, you know, certain people and some are saying this about expert or prior presidents, but you know, with media, only prior administrations, uh, with different departments. Sometimes we kind of were like, oh God, how's this person going to deal with power? And and you've handled it well. I mean, you haven't changed who you are. You've never, you know, changed who you were as a person, uh, and you were the president when I got hired full time. So this organization would never be the same.

Speaker 3 3:49

Like reflecting back home maybe any mistakes.

Speaker 1 3:51

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Not all of our decisions, yeah.

Speaker 2 3:56

So, but we, yeah, we wanted to have you come on and and, uh, talk about your career. I think the most important thing is is Clinton can say, can say this as employees, we could ask all the time like man, how did you get involved with TNPA? I'm sure you do too Be on the board. That's one thing we wanted to kind of highlight is how, how, how, how did you get introduced to law enforcement? but also, how did you get introduced to TNPA? being on the board? What does that look like? Uh, and kind of give some advice to the listeners, the watchers, the viewers and uh, kind of give your career path with TNPA and what it looks like.

Speaker 3 4:28

Let's kick it off with who's Joe? Where are you born? Who the heck is Joe?

Speaker 1 4:31

So I was born in uh, Dearborn, Michigan, And then, uh, I did not know that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 4:36

Wow, it's pronounced deer, deer, sorry.

Speaker 1 4:42

Um, and then we spent a little time in Missouri and then uh moved down to Medina County. I actually grew up in a small one, a school town, uh, dehennis.

Speaker 3 4:53

Um, how old were you when you moved there?

Speaker 1 4:55

Uh, we were about.

Speaker 3 4:56

I think I was in first grade from Michigan to DeHennis, texas.

Speaker 1 5:01

Well, that's a my dad is originally from there, so that's why we moved down there. Um went to high school there. I wasn't really a good student. I didn't really care for school, was more interested in uh playing sports playing baseball and playing football than anything else. Yeah, um, uh realized once, uh I graduated high school, that things became real, so I needed a job.

Speaker 1 5:29

Um yeah, didn't have money to go to college, So decided to join the army and listen to the army and, uh, served um three years at Fort Hood as a tanker. Um, I scored just high enough on the ASFAB to stay out of the Marine Corps, So you never like crayons?

Speaker 3 5:51

No, Did you? did you pick tanker, Was that? did you go in open contract? or is that something you kind of always wanted to be a part of?

Speaker 1 5:59

Uh. So I didn't really know, uh, what I wanted to do. I just knew that I I needed to get out of DeHennis and Medina County because there wasn't really a whole lot there uh, unless you you have a family that, like, has a ranch or something like that, You're kind of on your own.

Speaker 1 6:13

There is a big, uh, brick factory there. Well, I'll say big, but, um, it does employ several people there, but there's not really a big future there. So I knew, I knew I needed to get out of that area, Um, and so that was my, that was my out. Um was joining the army. And when I went to talk to the recruiter actually, let me backtrack when, when I took the ASFAB, I took it when I was a junior in high school and I really didn't have aspirations of joining the military at that time. I just took the ASFAB to get out of class, And so I didn't score very well on it, Um, and I wanted to retake it once everything became real when I was a senior. But my recruiter was like no, you'll be good with this score here, And he was a tanker too, Apparently. Um, I wish I knew who he was so we could have a little chat, because he told me that the tanks were air conditioned. Uh, oh shit, They were not. Uh, they are now.

Speaker 3 7:15

I'm shocked to hear a recruiter lied to a recruit Didn't give you a thousand percent accurate story.

Speaker 1 7:22

Um, but uh, so when I came, when I joined, it was in, uh, august of 96 is when I shipped out to basic training and they weren't really doing bonuses at that point. But I did get a $3,000 bonus. So, um, they made a big deal out of that because there weren't very many people like now that are that are getting bonuses. Um, but uncle Sam really enjoys your bonus more than you do. He takes a big chunk of that. So when I got done with basic training and AIT, i got stationed at at Fort Hood here in Killeen and spent my time there, um, throughout my time in the military. I, i thoroughly enjoy, uh, knowing that I, i did that. It was a huge accomplishment, uh, for myself, um, but I knew enough to know that, uh, big army wasn't for me, especially being at Fort Hood. If you talk to anybody that's been there, uh, there's just too many people there and you're, you're a number, yeah, and big army doing big army stuff. You know just not not doing the smartest things.

Speaker 1 8:30

When, when I was in, we, uh, we got shipped off to Kuwait as a part of um, operation desert shield, i believe shield, yeah, before storm, so it was, it was, it was actually after a desert storm, but it was the, the force show, a force that we had there consistently, uh, until the, the next wars that came along, uh, we, we did a three month rotation there And one of the last straws for me was before you're supposed to go to NTC, which is in Fort Irwin, california, uh, as a kind of train up to going overseas. Well, we did it backwards, we, we, we went to the desert, we went to Kuwait and then did your work up after you got back.

Speaker 1 9:14

Yes, i'm like, why are we going? We're not going anywhere, we already did this.

Speaker 3 9:18

That makes a hundred percent military sense.

Speaker 1 9:20

Yes, and it's like you know what. No, i'm done with this. Uh, and, and I was going, i was actually going to reenlist as an MP, uh, but we were short on numbers and and the commander wasn't going to allow me, uh, to reenlist as an MP. So you can, you can reenlist as a tanker or you can get out. So, all right, i'm going to get out. So went back home, um, got a job at the Medina County Sheriff's office as a jailer And, looking back on it, i can't really tell you that, uh, that was my lifelong dream to be in law enforcement. Um, i'm sure, just like any other kid, you think about that, but I can't tell you that, yeah, as soon as I come out of the womb, yeah, i want to be a cop.

Speaker 3 10:06

Did something spark you to consider the MP field.

Speaker 1 10:13

Um, i think it was just, um, there seemed to be more movement as far as, uh, uh, the emotional opportunities and and different job aspects. Uh, because being so short staffed in the unit that I was in didn't it worked out for me. But it also didn't work out for me because, um, back then, when we, when we would go to the field and do our uh uh, our firing engagements and qualifications, the tanks had to drive up onto a berm and the berms had a sheer cliff in the front of them. So if you drove too far forward you were going to drive off that little cliff and people would freak out and slam on the brakes. Well, even though the gun the main gun when it's engaged it's going to stay on target, Everything else inside the tank is going to move. So if you picture the gunner and the tank commander on their gun site and you're slamming on the brakes, you're slamming their head forward, some people will get black eyes and bust it up on the bridge of their nose If it hit too hard.

Speaker 1 11:22

Well, i got good at driving, so I got stuck on the commander's tank and you have a four man crew. We were so short staffed, we didn't have a permanent loader on our our tank. So you're down to three. On a commander's tank, he's the captain of the company. He doesn't do the maintenance of the tank, so you're down to two.

Speaker 1 11:46

Oh, wow, the gunner on mine, who's the the supervisor of the tank in that situation, is a sergeant, and my sergeant I got into a pretty significant wreck where he was in ICU for like six months. So I was on that tank by myself for almost a year. Wow, it's good if you look back on it and you see what age you are and how much responsibility you have. At that point and at that age I think it was a huge accomplishment. But it also really hurt me because I didn't get to move into a. The next position for me would have been gunner And I think they realized that a little bit too late, because I only got to go to one gunnery as a gunner And by then I had already made the decision to get out. I think maybe if I'd been moved in there a little bit quicker, i probably would have stayed in at least one more contract.

Speaker 2 12:45

Yeah.

Speaker 3 12:46

So got out, went to Medina County. So does a jailer or deputy as a jailer How? long did you do there?

Speaker 1 12:52

I stayed there a total of eight months And while going there, southwest Texas Junior College out of Evalding they were talking about kicking around the idea of having a remote academy there in Hondo And so once I found out about that I started working trying to coordinate that And I initially had kind of a handshake deal with. The sheriff at the time was a Wesley Scott that I would be able to. He would work with my schedule because it was going to be in a six month long academy. We were going to do shorter hours, so that made it. It was going to be like six in the evening to 10 or something like that, so it was going to be a part time time right.

Speaker 1 13:37

And then everybody else found out about what was going on, and so they were like Oh, i want to, i want to do the academy too. And so it turns out he wasn't going to be able to work with my schedule. I don't blame him, because everybody else is going to want the same thing. So I left there and started working for a company called YSI. They were a juvenile detention facility there in Hondo. They're no longer there but so I became a juvenile detention officer, and that's challenging.

Speaker 1 14:06

You know it wasn't quite as bad. We didn't have as we didn't have it as bad as some other facilities And we I did a lot of transports for them. They would have two man transports and we'd be driving all over the state of Texas. I remember going all the way up to Palo Pinto and it was an Eagle Lake.

Speaker 3 14:25

How old were you at this time?

Speaker 1 14:27

Twenty 21, somewhere around there.

Speaker 3 14:30

Oh wow, It's funny. We've had a lot of folks on that had jail, either county jail or municipal jail experience. And he and I both worked in the jail before and you don't see it at the time because I didn't see it. I'm like dude, this sucks. I'm just ready to. I don't want to work in the jail, but the experience you have dealing with your four.

Speaker 3 14:51

You're stuck with those people and understanding how to communicate and de-escalate. And you got to get along with them because they're probably going to be back there when I get back to work tomorrow. Whereas in patrol sack them up, drop them off and see a dude, i don't have to deal with you again. It's interesting now looking back how how invaluable some of that experience can be working in the jail. It may not seem invaluable at the time, but that's kind of been. You feel like that was a good stepping stone to start.

Speaker 1 15:22

Yeah, absolutely, and you talk about when I was there, we had just opened up the, the current jail that's there now, and so, apparently, in jail or prison land, if you move into a new facility, you have to christen it, and I guess the way they do that is by having a riot. Oh, wow, so the way this one was set up. You had a long hallway that led down and either side there were segregation cells where there was just individuals. In those cells that led to like an octagon shape and are surrounding that octagon, you were seated at a desk by yourself and then separated by the community pods, if you will, and part of their riot, if you will, was to try to break through the plexiglass that separated them from from you.

Speaker 1 16:18

And they were actually pretty successful. They almost breached the glass and I can tell you it's pretty unsettling being the person down there at that desk. The only other person that was there at the time was the guy in the control room, and he's way down at the other end of the hall. All he can do is watch what's taking place. I mean, you could you could call in deputies if you needed to, but luckily we didn't get to that point, but all you have is an SL 20 and prayer.

Speaker 3 16:52

It's funny you bring it up. The other day a wife was talking about buying all females in the family these devices you wear on your belt or you wear on a purse And when you pull this deal out at squills and I mean it is it is deafening, insanely loud. Well, she was excited to show me She bought them for everybody. I was like, yeah, it's neat. She goes Oh, let's do it. I said no, i've seen him before. Where have you seen him? And I said, well, working in the jail. That's what they gave us.

Speaker 3 17:24

And after a few weeks working in the jail, i'd be the only jailer in plain OPD and early nineties. I'd be the only jailer on duty on deep nights and jailers weren't allowed to have a real police radio. and they gave us this deal and we'd have some bad dudes come in there at times and I had help until the officer was through booking them in. And we had a really cool supervisor named Janet Shepton shout out to the Shepton family. but I went into her one day and it reminds me of the movie The other guys. I think he gives them a rape whistle. but I went into Janet's office one day. It was like, Hey, i'm here most nights alone and I have this thing. She's like yeah, yeah, so you can get help. I said most nights. I'm the only one in the entire police department, so it's really good and I'm going to make everybody mad. All the prisoners pissed off with this.

Speaker 1 18:15

now, this loud noise who's coming to help me, and she's like we've never thought of that.

Speaker 3 18:24

So then we got approval to have real policemen, big boy radios, but sitting in in that pod and surrounded by all of that. It's an uneasy feeling And the night it dawned on me. if these guys, if this goes sideways, i'm going to Hey guys, you better watch out, or I'm going to pull this and make a loud, squealing noise. It's not going to change anything, but I'm going to make a loud noise.

Speaker 2 18:46

It is a freaking unsettling thought Absolutely Well, i can't tell you how, over my career moving from Dallas to East Texas, the communications aspect with dealing with inmates In my CID career is when I really noticed it. Uh, dealing with inmates and speaking with them, uh, during the interview process is when I really started to begin to man really value, uh, having that experience in the jail setting. I saw it on patrol but really in CID dealing with interviews, uh, the Lengos, this one, i've really started to see that Uh, and I think it's I. Honestly, if I could give any any bit of advice to anybody starting law enforcement, number one it would be to start in the jails. But just be careful when you do that because you don't want to make any mistakes and then it follow you during your career would be another bit of advice. But man, it's just so crucial to get that experience at you know, as you start your careers. But the jail setting is just, you really can't put a price tag on it, honestly.

Speaker 3 19:47

So what led you from uh, the youth facility to your next step, new brothels.

Speaker 1 19:53

Yeah. So uh went through the academy there in uh in Hondo but it was, you know, through the college in Uvalde, and um realized that I'd at some point I realized I didn't want to uh be an officer there in Hondo and that there's not a shot at Hondo or Hondo PD at all. But I had family that lived there and it's a real small town. Um, i didn't want any me doing my job to affect my family any more than it already naturally does. Um, and of course you know I do have some extended family. That's not necessarily on the same side of the law that I am And I didn't want it. Um, i just didn't want to create any more uh conflict. that need doesn't need to be there.

Speaker 3 20:37

Sure, that's a mature thought at 21 or.

Speaker 1 20:40

Well, plus, the pay was better in New Bromphal still is than than Hondo.

Speaker 2 20:45

Yeah.

Speaker 1 20:46

They are unfortunately not uh adding very many officers or bringing up their pay where they where it has to be.

Speaker 3 20:53

So finished the Academy applied at New Bromphals. What year was that?

Speaker 1 20:57

Uh, so I got hired on in February of 2001. I still remember looking in the in the I guess it was the San Antonio express news newspaper and found the ad there, and that's where I'm how I applied at New Bromphal.

Speaker 3 21:12

Close, yeah, close, close. Keep practicing. It took a shot, yankee.

Speaker 1 21:19

Um, by the way, do you have your keys on you?

Speaker 2 21:21

Yeah, Oh okay, see how, see where this is going Yeah, they're in the table in there. Sure, yeah, promise, we're not in Cedar Park, by the way, go ahead.

Speaker 3 21:35

So um, you just finished Academy, Did the brothels put you, do you have to go back through Academy?

Speaker 1 21:44

No, uh started uh FTO, uh, right away. Uh, all they all they required was uh, you know, you, you, you, you, you, you, you have your, your basic peace officer. and then you start going through their, their FTO program and um, yeah, Did you have a contact or did you know anybody there?

Speaker 3 22:01

or were you alone? man flying alone didn't know a soul? Nope, didn't know anybody.

Speaker 1 22:06

Uh, I think I'd only been to new Bronfals one time prior to that, uh, going to Slitterbond, Um, and that was it. I still remember, like for the first six months I worked there, i drove the the same route to and from work because I didn't want to get lost.

Speaker 2 22:25

That's awesome. What were you living at?

Speaker 1 22:27

Uh, just an apartment complex there in in New Bronfals, complete opposite side of of town from where the station was.

Speaker 2 22:33

That's crazy.

Speaker 3 22:35

I took Garland's test, did, did surprisingly better than I anticipated. Got a call the next day You need to get there, turn in application. So I borrowed my mom at a nice maxima that would fly some flying, trying to get there where I thought it was Garland. Pd pulls me over. He's like Hey, man, you're flying. I said, sir, i know I've got an application, i'm actually applying to be garland. He's like no kidding. I said yes, sir, so I'm hoping to be in y'all's Academy. He's like man all right, that's all right, get your ass going.

Speaker 3 23:05

I was like well, sir, before you leave, where's the police station at? I have no idea. I have no idea. I thought I did and I'm purely adult, you gotta. it's. it's weird to move into a new place and try to do please tell me about it.

Speaker 2 23:20

Yeah, yeah, and get stuff stolen and leave your keys in the cars and you're not in Kansas anymore. Yeah, i'm not in Kansas anymore, so you, so I guess you didn't have to go through the SEO process. No, i did Oh you did have to go through there, okay, so. So what did what? how difficult was it with the fur?

Speaker 1 23:37

new broncil, being the new kid on the block, not knowing the area, yeah, Um, looking back on it, i'm sure it was a huge struggle because, you know not not having that uh background of listening to the radio and then trying to figure out, uh, where streets are, where things are at, and you don't have uh, gps is readily available, as you do now.

Speaker 2 23:57

Yeah.

Speaker 1 23:58

Uh, and then you know you complicated even more. Uh, because you know brothels is a little bit more unique. I think when it, when it got laid out, it was done by a drunk German on a donkey. Um, you know, because North North streets don't actually always run North and South and same thing with East and West. So it kind of gets confusing when you have a, a crash at a perpendicular intersection and there's North on both sides of them Kind of makes you wonder, well, which way is up.

Speaker 3 24:27

Yeah, um, we have a lot of explorers that watch and you you bring up a great point. Um, i thought I thought I was a multitasker until I started FTO and you're trying to read them out listen to the radio, look at street signs. Not make your FTO pull out his notepad and start making notes about you. And it is. It's um, it's almost like sensory overload If you've never been in the and most people can't be in that predicament. but even just listening to the radio when it's so much chatter on a Friday or Saturday night to the young men and women out there looking for hone, your multitasking cause, that was my biggest challenge. Yeah, the geography I studied enough. But multitasking man, it's a huge and it's not a natural thing to do. We tell people what you focus, focus. Well, that's not what multitasking is.

Speaker 1 25:19

That's. That's still a real problem. Uh, we just had a trainee wash out because you couldn't multitask.

Speaker 2 25:26

Just that's sad man. And to go through all that training for nothing, you know when it'll get you killed if you don't well, yeah, it's true, it'll get you killed if, if, if they don't.

Speaker 3 25:35

a lot of people take that wrong. but, uh, you got to be aware of where you're at and how to tell and where everyone else is, and and it's not a personal issue, it's it's to keep somebody from getting themselves.

Speaker 2 25:45

Yeah, i wasn't saying that, but it's sad, i understand. It's uh, it's just sad that you know they some points you got to cut the training out. So, yep, Yup, Uh, at what point did you get involved with the local association there at New Brompsville and and and see a need? that that's kind of where you, or was it one of those typical, as we've all seen it, where you kind of get dumped into it and it was kind of your time to carry that flag? Was it the same situation for you?

Speaker 1 26:10

You know, i've looked back on that time and I can't really tell you exactly when they clicked for me, um, but before that I don't. I don't remember exactly when I was sat down and had a conversation about TMPA and, uh, the reason why you should, you should join Right, um, at some point I did, uh, and I I think the two guys that probably would have had that conversation with me are still there at the PD right now, um, and both of them were. One of them was my FTO and the other one worked on the shift that that we were on.

Speaker 3 26:43

So you know, i credit those guys for for having that conversation with yeah, did you have any legal protection when they sat you down to visit with you? about it?

Speaker 1 26:51

No, wow, i mean, i didn't even know. I didn't even know enough to know that I needed it. Yeah, yep.

Speaker 3 26:58

Unfortunately, there's still a lot of folks out there strapping a gun and badge on every day that don't have it, just jump. They just don't know. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 27:06

Somebody did not know this to the day I actually called the legal call, jumped at like four am The guy had a law shield. And for those that are listening right now that do not know this, if you have a law shield or thought you had law shield, they do not exist for law enforcement. They do not have law enforcement coverage. So if you thought you had US law shield, they don't cover cops anymore.

Speaker 3 27:28

For what we do. They put you in the civilian LTC program without notifying you, and so you have the same legal protection as a license to carry folks, which doesn't mean doesn't include admin. Right, all the other things that you need, yeah.

Speaker 2 27:45

So the guy that I talked to you did not know that. So that's not the same as TNPA. Um, so they're still on it out there to you guys.

Speaker 3 27:52

So a couple of guys, old heads, sat you down with us, did with you about TNPA. You got some legal insurance, legal protection. Was that when you started looking at your local association and kind of got involved, or what? what kicked off your interest in the labor arena?

Speaker 1 28:07

So if I had to put something on it, i would probably say when I first started working there in New Bromphills, it was not not the place that it is today. I can tell you that there's. Um, you didn't have good history at that point. Um, i don't remember exactly when the article was written, but there's. There's an article and I'm sure somebody at work still has a copy of it, but the the uh tagline or the headline of the of the article was sex lives and drive-bys and it. They weren't talking about cartels or gangs or anything like that. They were talking about people that were a badge and worked for that agency.

Police Associations

Speaker 3 28:44

Oh, wow, yeah, i've never heard that story.

Speaker 1 28:47

And so there, there were some people that needed to go and shortly after I got hired on, um, we got a different city manager and, uh, he started cleaning the house and we started by uh I think I think that the chief was asked to retire, if I remember correctly, and he did, and we got a new chief in from. Uh actually came to us from Cortez Colorado. Um, great, great chief. Love that guy. Um still wish he was there. Uh, no offense to our current chief, our current chief is really good too.

Speaker 1 29:21

Um, yeah, i can handle that out but uh, uh, chief Johnson was was really good, um, and he started really cleaning house and it needed to happen, um, and once that started happening and get rid of you know, they turned themselves uh dead wood and they were right, uh, cause they were holding us back. And once we got rid of that, we were able to move forward and uh turn the department into to what it is now. Um, but as part of that, the association has always existed And you know, in some some associations, that kind of ebbs and flows as far as their um activity or existence, even, yeah, um, and I don't remember exactly what year, but we we've steadily uh continued to be active and um advocate for, for the officers when the chain of command doesn't necessarily help them out or or fails them outright, which is the reason why associations exist to begin with, yep, and so we've we've steadily been able to get rid of those associations.

Speaker 1 30:29

And so we've, we've steadily um increased our, our activity.

Speaker 3 30:34

What year'd you get? Was it pretty quick? after you got on you got involved or at least became a member and kind of somewhat active with the local.

Speaker 1 30:41

Yeah, i think I probably joined the local about the same time that joined TNPA, and I've been a member ever since.

Speaker 3 30:49

What led to you wanting to see a bigger picture and step on to state board.

Speaker 1 30:56

So we've had uh three of us now. Um, i'm obviously the current uh member from the department, but uh, craig Christofferson, uh, he was on the board as a regional director And then, uh, i was on his shift as a corporal while he was on the board and we would talk every once in a while, nothing specific but just talking about uh the stuff that the board does and why it exists and why it's important, and coming to conferences uh around that time to to get to see uh the behind the scenes. I say behind the scenes. You don't. You don't really get to see what TNPA does uh at the conference. Don't get me wrong Conference, i look forward to that every year. Uh, it's kind of like my my reset, if you will. But um, you really don't get an understanding, a true understanding of what what TNPA does behind the scenes.

Speaker 1 31:52

Um, but once Craig was was uh done with being on the board. Then Steve Hannah came on the board as a region director and, um, i don't remember how many years he did, and then he decided it was time to step down. So, uh, i was still really active with our local and doing things with TNPA as, as a member, you know, you can sign up uh back in the at that time to do legislative and other uh boards to help out throughout the year. Um, so I ran whenever Steve Hannah was was done with being on the board And, uh, the year that I got on, i think there was eight, eight or nine of us that came on the board. It was in 2012.

Speaker 1 32:36

Well as a as a region director, and had a had a great time Um. You, the people that you meet um by being on the board, is incredible. Uh. You really get to see when people talk about the brotherhood, you at some point at at your agency and you may not experience what the true brotherhood is supposed to be about. It's not until you have a critical incident, uh, like what Justin Ellis talked about in his incident and I'm sure Claudia talked about in hers. Yeah, um, just to run on the middle of day to day stuff. Uh, you don't really get to see that.

Speaker 1 33:24

But I think one of the things that uh you get to experience by being on the board is you get a a better understanding of just how active our state is and how bad things are for the officers, uh, some some working conditions, um, but also how they get treated by the public that they're serving um by the elected officials that are supposed to be upholding the laws, uh, and even sometimes their own administrations, um, you know, we we do hear some cases uh, someone gets denied coverage.

Speaker 1 34:10

We'll we'll hear their case and and uh make a decision on whether or not we're going to cover it. But one of the first things that that really opened my eyes was the email strings that we get of. It's sometimes it's pretty constant of the critical incidents that our our members are involved in, and it's not always members, um, you know, that's. One thing that I love about this organization is, yes, we want you to be a member, but if we find out that you're not a member, that doesn't mean that we're going to wash our hands of you. We're going to take care of you as best we can, because that's what's right. Yup, and maybe we'll get a member out of that.

TNPA Board and Networking Opportunities

Speaker 3 34:51

I don't know, but it's the right thing to do You mentioned um being a part of the local and then kind of it's eye opening to see what really goes on. That's one thing that stuck with me. Um Tyler and I were friends. He was, i was the field rep, he was the local president, we would interact, he was a go getter. We were needing a part time or brought him on part time, and it really stuck with me after he came on part time Cause he's like I really felt like I knew a lot and I was seeing a lot.

Speaker 3 35:21

But when you open up your lens and you're now looking at the entire state of what really goes on in this huge picture of the vast amount of like you're talking about issues and just shit going on, he's like man. It's really eye opening to expand your lens outside of like my whole world was garland for so long. And then when you look out and we're dealing with issues and the panhandle and you know on the on the coast and you know on the coast, you know on the coast and it's messy and it's it's seeing how sausage is made is messy, but to your point, and we're involved in all of it And we got people burning up the road all the time We have board members showing up to try and help and calling a check on our members and we're right in the middle of the sausage making, no matter what part of the state it is, and it was really opening. I guess I never thought of it, but the first couple of years Tio was on, he would call me, he's like dude.

Speaker 3 36:18

This is really broad opening seeing all of this going on And I never really thought of it that way, but it's true And for our listeners. You mentioned you became a regional director. Our board is composed of 18 board members elected by the members, the executive board and regional directors. You became a regional director first and our state is divided up into various regions around the state.

Speaker 2 36:48

Yeah, tim.

Speaker 3 36:49

Um, and then the executive board, and and it's all the board of directors. uh, but there's regional directors and executive board, And so you kind of stepped on initially to get your feet wet as a regional director.

Speaker 1 37:03

Yeah, yeah, and, and you can, technically at the conference you can run as a uh, one of the state positions, like a treasurer or secretary or one of the VP's, but you'll nominate me.

Speaker 3 37:17

I'll nominate you.

Speaker 2 37:18

Yeah, you're doing.

Speaker 1 37:22

But I think the the proper way to go about it is to become a region director. That way. Yeah, you, you have, uh, you have some responsibilities, but not, uh, not nearly as much as the executive board does, and it's probably a great way to figure out.

Speaker 3 37:37

Is this really for me? Because, like you said, the email chain, the phone calls, it's not a I'm going to step on be a regional director and it may take up 10 minutes a month of my time.

Speaker 2 37:51

The fiscal responsibility. I mean, you guys are essentially, you guys are like the city council or the commission or court of our this entire.

Speaker 3 38:00

it's, this entire, this entire organization, It's easy for you to say Yeah, well, i didn't, i couldn't spit it out.

Speaker 1 38:06

I had a scousa. Yeah, good thing it wasn't a new broncosa.

Speaker 2 38:10

Yeah, new bronze fills. Ah, i said I said it that time I'm not an idiot. I promise viewers, watchers, listeners, i promise.

Speaker 1 38:20

Um. What I've really liked about my time, my entire time of being on the board is I think it's helped me um being on the local has helped me through my time being on the TNPA board, and my time on the TNPA board has helped me um on the local side as well.

Speaker 2 38:37

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 38:37

Uh, because you know you see some of the games that get played by uh administrations in other parts of the state. We we talk about it. Uh, other board members uh talk, talk about what's going on in their areas And you know interactions with field reps and interaction with members. You take that back to your uh local. So it it. It does help you. Uh, an example of that is a couple of years ago council had approved us for I don't know like four officers and a supervisor and our budget runs from October one on. Well, what our city management liked to do was, once the budget's approved and the money's there from October one. But they won't let you start the hiring process until January.

Speaker 3 39:25

So they can sit on that money Yeah.

Speaker 1 39:26

You have that salary savings. So if something comes up during the rest of the year, instead of having to go back to council for a budget adjustment which makes them look bad, totally understand it, um, but in our case it it can take six months to hire somebody. So we're already behind the eight ball as it is. then you make it even worse Just to save your ass. So that you know I credit TNPA and my opportunity to be on the board to to help me, uh, in that aspect. cause we, we saw that.

Speaker 2 40:00

And we.

Speaker 1 40:01

We went to council members and pointed out to them that this was going on And everyone of them was like Oh, I thought y'all had already hired them because that was their, that was their belief, And that I mean they should be able to trust that city management is going to do what they're told to do, Right, They don't always do it, That's right. Uh, in the time that, that, uh, that's expected of them.

Speaker 3 40:25

When you make a great point about networking, you can jump on an email, send out, Hey, is anybody experiencing this? And you may get 10 or 12 replies back or ideas or Hey, here's our policy, Here's how we're doing it. And in conference, registration is open And if you, if you can't serve on the board or don't have a desire or don't have the time, you can come to conference and do the same thing. There's a lot of people from across the state that will be at the TNPA conference every year and it's a great opportunity to sit around with some other local leaders and be like Hey man, how, how are you guys navigating this issue? Or how does your local board deal? Because we're having a huge issue and, um, our conference is a great way to do it. The conference registration is open now And I would really encourage everyone come to conference this year and hang out with El Presidente, Sergeant Joe Togler.

Speaker 1 41:22

Yeah, absolutely The conference, like I said it's it's something that I look forward to every year. Um, it's kind of like a recharge for me, uh, because you know, at the very least you realize that your department isn't necessarily the most screwed up. There are others out there that are more screwed up than yours.

Speaker 2 41:40

Oh no.

Speaker 1 41:40

Um, and then other aspects. It's the same game, just different faces. Yep, um. So you get to realize that. But it is a good way to unplug, uh, but also network with other officers across the state And, in in many cases, from across the country, cause we bring in some some really good speakers and trainers um to to talk to our members about their experiences and different states. Uh, so you realize that Texas isn't that messed up. I mean it could be worse. It could be comifolia um or or up in the Northeast.

Speaker 2 42:20

So give us the most memorable thing. Uh, and you might have several. Uh, that's your. The most memorable story. This is being on the board of TMPA, other than meeting Tyler other than meeting me.

Speaker 1 42:34

Okay, that's it.

Speaker 2 42:38

That's right, that's right. Thank you for coming on.

Speaker 1 42:42

I think it would be. I would have to be a our response to to Harvey. Um, i got to be a part of some of the group that went to Houston to help those guys out.

Speaker 2 42:53

You want to kind of expand upon that or without, because I know that Clint even Clint can't even talk about that, getting emotional Uh is that. Harvey, or was it the other hurricane I?

Speaker 3 43:04

think Harvey was the one before where we deployed to Victoria, but I know which one you do, where Houston was underwater. Basically When you're referencing, yeah.

Speaker 1 43:13

Well, I went there with Dick and we went to Sugarland. I remember correct.

Speaker 3 43:18

Worked out of a station or somewhere over there. Yeah.

Speaker 2 43:22

But it's, it's, it's. it's just like situations like that, where it's way, it's way You may have been tell us about it, though.

Speaker 1 43:30

So I'm just one of the volunteers that was allowed to drive one of the trucks to cart food and necessities. I mean, when you go to work and it's raining, right, you don't really think that at the end of your shift, that you're not gonna have anything literally anything left to go back home to And these officers over there. That's exactly what happened to a lot of them, and so we were able to, through our network, get some of those basic necessities, even food and water, clothing, shirts, underwear, socks, toiletries. I mean it's if you put yourself in the shoes of the officers that were responding to those incidents. It's unimaginable that that I mean we just had a member lose everything on the fire, lost an entire fire, and we were able to get a lot of people to go to work on the fire lost an entire fire.

Speaker 1 44:47

Literally everything is gone.

Speaker 3 44:52

When we, when I started here, i knew we responded to events like that. I didn't know the magnitude and I grew up in North Texas, so I've never been around a hurricane. And when Harvey hit they called and said, hey, our emergency response unit is activated, you need to head south. And I'm like, well, i think there's a hurricane. And they said, yeah, we're everybody's set into Victoria. I was like pretty sure there's a hurricane down there. So I get in a TMP truck and just before Victoria I drive through it. Well, it'd been on land for I don't know however long that period of time is, so it had diminished down, but it scared the hell out of me driving through it. I just I've never been around, you know, it'd be like somebody from Hawaii And we try to talk to them about tornadoes And they just don't know anything about it. And so I was a little bit underwhelmed with our emergency response In day two or three.

Speaker 3 45:49

I'm in the TMP truck, i've got it loaded down literally with socks and underwear and undershirts And we're somewhere between Victoria and the coast, i don't know where, and we knew there was supposed to be a large regional command center, command post setup. And I'm driving down the road and there is a destroyed SUV, police SUV, sheriff's SUV, blocking the road as a barrier. And there's this young sheriff's deputy standing in the road, sopping wet It's. I think it's two days after the hurricane. I pull up and I'm not gonna get through this without crying, but pull up and say, hey, man, how you doing? And he's like shell, shocked like World War II, you know, you see. And he said, okay, sir. And I said how's your house? He said I don't know. And I said how's your family? I don't know. I think they're safe. And I said do you have a house to go back to? I don't know. And I said do you need anything? And he said I don't even know what I need.

Speaker 3 46:55

And we were supposed to bust these bundles of socks and underwear and give out a pair of underwear and a pair of socks. And I said, buddy, i don't have much to give you, but I can give you some underwear and some socks and an undershirt. And he starts bawling like I had offered him a million dollars And I was like I'm not breaking up these bundles. So I started just handing him socks and underwear And you would have thought, literally, we were giving him the lottery. I mean the winning ticket to the lottery is bawling.

Speaker 3 47:29

And I thought, my God, when you're at a point in your life where a pair of socks and a pair of underwear, that's a low, low, low spot in your life. And man, after that I was like, if we need to deploy, we need to deploy, let's go. And it's to your point, somebody's lost everything and we can come in and a pair of socks doesn't make a damn that a difference in his life. But at that moment it did. I mean everything in the world to him, clearly, but that whoever the genesis of starting the process of us doing that was smarter than me because I was like I had stupid. We're going to go drive around and get to these floods or go to a fire And it may not mean a lot to somebody, but it means a whole hell of a lot to them.

Speaker 2 48:13

But that's what makes it awesome And that's what makes probably the most rewarding about being a part of this organization is that you're showing up representing 32,000 brothers and sisters of law enforcement And we as employees probably see it way more than the board, but we're the extension of them And we get to see it frontline and center And we get to deliver that love that they are basically making. As far as the financial decisions, you know every quarter And I'll be honest with you, I've done a lot of cool shit my lifetime. God has blessed me over and over. I've got a wonderful wife who puts up with my bullshit daily, As y'all are well aware.

Speaker 2 48:53

But you definitely outkicked your coach Oh, there's no doubt Got two beautiful children. But for whatever reason, man, i you know, you and I met. I got thrown into a associate local association. You and I met and I've been blessed with this opportunity with TNPA And I thank God every day for it because we get to affect. There's so many lives that we get to affect every single day, simple phone calls that members call in. It's it's live changing to them And I recognize it and all of our field reps recognize it as well as, as well as you do too.

Speaker 3 49:30

You know the weird part about it when I got started here I got into the role to go fight for members Like he and I met cause I got his chief ran out of town And I thought that would be fulfilling, helping that probably 24 year old deputy as he sat on the middle of nowhere with nothing, crying out, Crying over a pair of socks, and I were.

Speaker 3 49:52

that's a hundred times more rewarding To me, or fulfilling, maybe not rewarding. fulfilling then getting a nut job chief, because we get one ran out and there's 40 others pop up and it's a problem. If if TNPA made a small difference in that young deputies live for those few moments of his misery, that's a million times more fulfilling than anything else we can do. And and was interesting to see your learn in this role.

Speaker 1 50:21

Absolutely, and I'm hearing that story. It makes me think about what officers and deputies and troopers, if you're in law enforcement, what you are, whether you think about it or not, what you're prepared to do anytime you go to work And and usually that's you're thinking of yourself last, if you even do, and in some, some incidents, you're prepared to lay down your life for somebody else, and someone else that may not even be grateful that you're there, like in Dallas, exactly.

Speaker 3 51:04

So one of the things that I think is really important to me is that I think one of the things about you personally and I think you're aware of it, but you're a hugely compassionate guy and everybody has, like their personality traits or quirks or or or personality traits that people understand All that guy's a, you know, huge into guns. That guy's huge into hunting. That guy's, whatever they're anybody that knows Joe or it seems, knows that mental health and being aware of, of taking care of our, our fellow men and women in law enforcement. What, what sparked cause? that's kind of your legacy to me as a president ever president kind of as a legacy. Is that just who Joe is? Is there things in your life that built that up? Is that something that evolved during your police career? What, where Joe, the, the fighter for everyone, come from?

Speaker 1 52:05

So it's. It's no secret that if you're in law enforcement, you're you're probably going to come across a critical incident here or there, um, and you're not going to. If you do any length of time in this career, you're not going to come out of it the exact same way you. You went into it And usually that's not a good thing, um, because it's been right. 13 years ago now, uh, we had one of our sergeants commit suicide and uh, at some point I was.

Speaker 1 52:35

I had worked with him, um, both when when I was a corporal and before he had promoted the sergeant. He was a detective and he was a detective when our first came on. So when I did a rotation and CID had come across him and he was a very funny guy, uh, he'd have you in the stitches all the time. Um, not not telling the link jokes that Tio tells us all the time, but um, then he promoted to to sergeant um and he had issues going on in his personal life and personally as well. Apparently, he was in quite a bit of pain yet some back issues uh constantly causing him pain. Uh, and then he was going through a divorce at the time and uh, the.

Speaker 1 53:22

I still remember the afternoon, uh getting the phone call, uh telling us that it it happened. If if you've never experienced that uh within your department, i can tell you it's it's a very polarizing issue. Uh, you're going to have two different sides of the fence, um cause it's kind of a I don't know if you call it a gray area, but some people want to treat it like a line of duty death where you know we, we do the full uh military honors or and there's others that say no, you're. You tarnish the the image of law enforcement by by doing that. Or you diminish uh the sacrifice that other officers have made that have been killed in the line of duty by you know an assailant kind of thing.

Speaker 3 54:23

And sometimes those are deeply divided, Absolutely And and our, our department was, was no different.

Speaker 1 54:29

I don't know what the right answer is to that, but what sticks in my mind is you can't forget all of the great work that some of those people have done Yeah, and you don't know exactly what it is that they're going through, that led them down the path to where they said I can't take it anymore. Only, only they know, and the people that are really close to them, that eventually will you know, realize what, what, what happened?

Speaker 1 55:02

because, inevitably what. What happens afterwards is there was people say there's no signs and nine times that attends their, their signs. It's just we. We don't either pick up on them or we ignore them. Um, but a lot of times they're there, um or we empower them.

Speaker 3 55:20

I know you're struggling. Let's go drinking.

Speaker 1 55:22

Yes, yeah, yeah. And so we lose. We lose enough too many First responders, specifically law enforcement, to people just willingly wanting to do harm to us because of the uniform that we wear and the oath that we take. We don't need to be making it worse by taking ourselves out Yep. Um, but at some point you need to realize that a couple of years ago I came across Travis house. I know you would attend this training Yep. This is a great standing presentation.

Speaker 1 56:01

Um, i don't remember exactly how I came across his book, but I read his book and then I started listening to his podcast, and what he talks about in there is that there there may be significant critical incidents that trigger you to have issues, whether it be full on PT, pt, pt, pt, pt, pt, pt, pt, pt, pt, pt, pt, pt, pt, pt, pt, pt, pt S.

Speaker 3 56:27

Yes, yeah, yeah, there's no, d Right, i don't have a disorder. Yeah, i'm screwed up as hell, but I don't have a disorder, by God.

Speaker 1 56:35

Uh, but more than likely it's. It's more micro, where a little bit of an incident from here sticks with you. You don't really acknowledge it, that it's affecting you, but it's there in your brain, uh, and at some point it's, it's going to come out. It's just like You know, if you fill up this cup and you put the lid on there, but you're still filling it up, eventually it's going to come out. And I was listening to another podcast, maybe a jockel podcast. They talked about this guy who had some shrapnel in them, things he had gotten shot. It could have been one of ours. Yeah, listen, this is too many podcast, disappointed to hear you listen to other podcasts.

Speaker 3 57:27

We thought we thought we were exclusive. This was but what?

Speaker 1 57:30

what happened with that individual is, you know, he got shot multiple times in some of the fragments that were stuck in his body and they, the doctors, didn't want to remove them, but eventually they, they worked themselves out. And when I heard that, i was like you know what? That's the exact same thing that happens to us, uh, cause eventually it's going to come out and, whether you want it to or not, exactly, and we need to do that in the most healthy way possible. And it's not uh, by by in in your life, because you know what happened with with our guys. He left now a widow, cause they weren't divorced yet, but two sons that were teenagers at the time. Um, so you're, you're hurting more people than you're. You're coming up with a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Speaker 2 58:32

My biggest thing with it is is that you know we preach about it's not okay to be okay on Monday And then we condemn the suicide, you know, on Tuesday. So it's like we need to. You know there's not really a good balance And I think we're still navigating through this as law enforcement, military We've said this for years. Military's done a really good job of identifying mental illness and how they kind of navigate through this And you know we're still kind of catching up. They're a lot years ahead of us.

Speaker 2 59:00

So I think that you, you know being in your position with TNPA and taking that leap, you know kudos to you for you know this. I think every president kind of focuses on what their mission is for that year. So you know, hats off to you for doing that this year and kind of focusing in on what your mission is for this year for you as president, cause I think other board members recognized it. I know me as an employee did, i know he did, And I think that we're going to all kind of continue to at least try to, you know, focus in on that, uh, as we kind of continue on And it takes leaders like you, uh, chief Eddie Garcia at Dallas PD.

Speaker 3 59:39

It takes people with some intestinal fortitude to talk about a difficult subject, because my whole life, everybody in my family's in law enforcement, we're told to rub dirt on it. You know, don't be a wuss, pick it up and going down the road, and, um, i think it takes a real man. We used to say, well, you're a sissy and you know, be a real man. And I think it takes a real man to stand up in front of a crowd and say I'm freaking broke and I am struggling. That's a whole lot more tough, manly decision to make than I'll just go get drunk and hide every day. Or, uh, i know my friend's struggling So I'll take him to the bar drinking. I'm like, well, that's not, that's not fixing the problem.

Speaker 3 1:00:25

And I, the two legacies I appreciate that you leave um, except when we nominate you and you get reelected as president again is Joe, um, joe's big on the mental health and he's unashamed about it and makes everybody aware of it. But the other thing that was cool, like at our last staff meeting, joe wanted everyone that would choose to read to have a copy of extreme ownership. And our world, nobody wants to accept ownership or anything and nobody wants to. And you don't have to have a title to be a leader. Everybody in a. You can be a two year officer in a small agency. You're a leader. People are going to look to you on and or the community is going to look to you on a call, and I I was super pumped to see you share your passion about extreme ownership with employees here And help mold and navigate. I wish everyone in our country would read that book. I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 1:01:29

And I don't know where I picked this up at, but, um, i truly believe that, whether you're just an officer at your department, um, or a board member at your, at your local, or even an a board member here at TMPA or an employee at TMPA, we all have a do, a duty, and it's a duty, and it's our job to leave this place better than we found it. And I'm not saying that TMPA was messed up when I got on the board. I'm not saying that at all but we all have the capability, i believe, to be a leader. Sometimes we just need to unlock it, and you may not, uh, completely relate to every story or antidote that's, that's in extreme ownership but, um, i find it very relatable, um, mostly cause they talk a lot about tanks in there as well. Jocko did a lot of work with with tankers, so he's good to go. It's a great book and you don't have to care about the military.

Speaker 3 1:02:28

You don't have to care about law enforcement. I strongly encourage anybody to get the book or get the. I'm doing the audio book. I've read the book once or twice maybe, which is going to shock you that a Marine can read. Um, but after Kathy read it, yeah we have story time.

Speaker 2 1:02:45

I did one, not. He's munching on the crown, yeah, the purple one stays good.

Speaker 3 1:02:51

Um, but you inspired me the other day about the audio book driving home and I've read it twice. but I have the audio book now, So when I'm driving and still listening to radio or whatever, I can listen to that again. Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:03:02

So if you're not familiar with the book, uh, a lot of it you know. They they talk about, uh, there's a military um version of of a concept that they're trying to talk about, but they've created a jocco has created, uh, a consulting company and they work a lot with private industry And so every issue leadership issue, communication issue that they've come across logistics issues translates not just a law enforcement but also to the civilian sector. I mean, you could not carry a gun at all And it's. You can still relate because people are people and they need to be led. Yep, yep.

Speaker 3 1:03:42

In. The cool part of the book is they'll tell a military story of how this um component of leadership helped and then they'll talk about a corporation They won't name it and how that exact same issue Arrows or a similar issue arose in the civilian corporate world in that leadership trait or ability, once unlocked or enabled or taught, helped turn that company round or that vice president. Yeah, It's a really, really good book, Best book I've ever.

Speaker 2 1:04:11

I've ever been a red two. You got that. Well, you got anything else Priz.

Leadership, Woodworking, and Saving Heroes

Speaker 1 1:04:20

Uh, just a point of clarification. At the very beginning You talked about I don't know what to call you. Uh, for me it's not about titles. Um, i may have a title, but that's just because I wanted to put myself in that position. Um, i don't. I don't go around thumping my chest that Hey, i'm. I'm X, y, z, it's Joe.

Speaker 3 1:04:39

That's right And that's that is. I was clamping, throwing it out there. That's the thing that I have respected about you always. Everybody has egos. Anybody that wants to be in the military law enforcement has an ego. We all have them. People understanding how to be, how to have humility and and professional and just completely humble, joe's never been. I'm freaking, president, you need to remember that, or I'm the, and that's what's cool.

Speaker 3 1:05:08

And to your point, he and I were making headway as I scratch my head, i don't have fleas in our making headway at at an agency in the pan handle. That's not a team PA agency. He and I went up there and had a visit with a large unit there. That's not a patrol unit. And on the way back, team PA folks were calling asking us how the meeting went, and I said, well, we met a dude there. That is the man, and they're like was he Sergeant or is he? we're like no, oh, how's he the leader? And I was. He and I were both like well, when we walked in there he could have probably told everybody in there let's go charge the mountain or let's go. He was clearly, wouldn't you agree?

Speaker 2 1:05:47

Alpha.

Speaker 3 1:05:47

Yeah, i mean he was clearly the leader. He didn't come in there and flex it or announce it, but when he walked in, everybody looked for him. Every discussion we had, you know, he and I were like, well, what's your thoughts on this? All of them would turn to him. He was clearly the leader in the room. He had no title. I think there was some sergeants maybe and some other senior folks in the room. He clearly was the leader of that room, was zero title and it was on. I'm a thousand percent certain that dude led that room. He has no title and whether it's a trade he's always had or whether he doesn't know it, but that man led that room of probably 20 that showed up to that meeting with no title.

Speaker 3 1:06:25

It was pretty cool. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 1:06:28

I guess, if there's one thing that I'd like to leave you with it, what I feel like I am drawn to do now, now that I'm going to be off the board pretty soon as far as an active member is continuing my work with saving heroes place.

Speaker 3 1:06:48

We didn't even hit on that. I thought you were about to say go back to region director. No, go back to working at Chippendales And I'm like don't go back dancing at Chippendales, Joe, I don't want to take your spot.

Speaker 2 1:07:01

Actually, tommy's going to come on next week, good Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:07:05

You've been. you got in on the ground floor of that. How did you guys meet at one of our conferences? Oh, no, kidding.

Speaker 1 1:07:10

Yeah, save the heroes place, i think he's he let me start building chairs, just so I'd leave him alone, that's awesome.

Speaker 3 1:07:19

You had woodworking experience before, didn't you?

Speaker 1 1:07:22

Just pedaling around in my own shop. So I wouldn't consider myself a professional woodworker, that's for sure.

Speaker 3 1:07:29

Save the heroes place. Um, tommy Capel, san Antonio PD, left San Antonio PD to pursue his mission building chairs. Um, so if an agency loses an officer in the line of duty, you can reach out to saving a hero's place and make a request. They will come build a chair at your agency. Beautiful, and I'm not into woodworking. What kind of? would cherry cherry? would a cherry wood chair? beautiful to put in your briefing room so that their place will always be held there in man.

Speaker 3 1:08:04

That is a freaking cool cool. Yeah, how'd you get involved with them so early? Cause I mean he when he?

Speaker 1 1:08:11

he came to a couple of conferences and once I found out what he was doing, i had just really started with working in my garage.

Speaker 2 1:08:18

And then being so close to San Antonio Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:08:21

Uh, went out to his shop when they were still living there and sent her just outside, actually right outside of Casterville, yeah, um, and I guess I passed the tests. And he, uh, let me start start building them. So I've been building them on the side as I can, um, to help them out.

Speaker 3 1:08:41

I'll tell you what that? that says a whole lot about your ability, though, cause I would, if that were my company and that chair represented my work, to let someone build that chair to ensure the quality. that. that says a whole lot about the trust he has in you and your ability as a woodworker, cause I couldn't glue two popsicle sticks together and feel comfortable about it.

Speaker 1 1:09:05

Yeah, well, i can tell you that I think I get more out of building the chair than than anything um therapeutic for you. It's very, very therapeutic because, you know, i find myself thinking about who the person was that that um building the chair for Yeah. Um, that's cool. Yeah, it's. it's definitely uh very special.

Speaker 3 1:09:33

What? what have you always dabbled with that? Or did you just wake up one day and think I think, for a hobby, i'm going to dabble with some woodworking? Yeah, pretty much, that's awesome. I'll tell you by what time? the only thing I ever knew how to do is put people in jail. I have no ability or skill outside of that. I, i'm telling you, so do you, do you build?

Speaker 2 1:09:51

do you build chairs? I mean, in addition to what he's doing on the road.

Speaker 1 1:09:55

Okay, No, mostly what. what I build is the, the coinholder flags that uh seen in the conference.

Speaker 2 1:10:03

So you're doing some of the additional stuff there at the house. Yep, That's awesome, That's cool. Yeah, I'm hoping we can get Tommy on uh here in the next couple of weeks. Uh, he's supposed to meet. You know, he's on the road now with the RV World traveler.

Speaker 3 1:10:15

World traveler.

Speaker 2 1:10:17

So maybe he's going to come on the on the blue grit stage.

Speaker 1 1:10:20

And if, if there's ever a family that truly represents a mission.

Speaker 2 1:10:25

Who is?

Speaker 1 1:10:25

the capels Yeah. So the uh, just so we're clear Tommy is not the leader of that group.

Speaker 2 1:10:31

Oh yeah, You can tell right off the bat Robbie Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:10:34

Robbie didn't have the title but, like we talked about before, she's clear, she knows.

Speaker 3 1:10:36

Um, for you guys that don't know, they the capels left San Antonio they went out to Slater's place or went with defender, felt they could fulfill their mission even greater, so they built a shop and an enclosed trailer and they're literally driving around the United States. They've been up in Maine, new York um building chairs for uh way up in the Northeast. Last I heard is they may be headed all the way across the country to California. Please check out saving heroes place And if, if you have uh, um, a place of passion where you'd like to send a wake up one morning with 50 extra bucks, shoot it. Saving heroes place for a great cause. Look them up, tommy and and uh Robbie Capel, yep, yep.

Speaker 2 1:11:24

You anything else press? No, sir Joe So.

Speaker 1 1:11:27

Glenn.

Speaker 2 1:11:30

No, that's pretty cool episode. I've enjoyed working with the man's. Like I'm going anywhere. Uh, we're going to be neighbors and new Bron feels close enough, there you go Learn something today. Get off me Brown feels.

Speaker 3 1:11:45

Make sure you now feels like your truck to ease my truck with my key fob.

Speaker 2 1:11:50

run feels shut up, glenn, rapid fire All right You're doing it because I always screwed up.

Speaker 3 1:11:57

No, that's your time.

Speaker 2 1:11:59

Favorite line from a cop movie or your favorite cop movie, favorite cop car and your favorite adult beverage Damn, you didn't really good. You can start.

Speaker 3 1:12:09

You can study.

Speaker 1 1:12:12

The other guys.

Speaker 3 1:12:15

That's like 75% of the answers.

Speaker 2 1:12:17

Oh, it's the good side, that's movie.

Speaker 3 1:12:18

Yeah. What's up Any particular line. There's about 500 good ones in there, but anyone that stands out for you, I just I really like the desktop scene Yeah. It's badass.

Speaker 2 1:12:29

It's awesome It's so good. What's your favorite cop car all time for up core.

Speaker 1 1:12:38

There's only one answer, that's right.

Speaker 2 1:12:39

What is it? That's right, that's a wrap. Yeah, that's right, it's gotta be, there's only one right answer, that's right. Yeah, what's your favorite adult beverage?

Speaker 1 1:12:51

Old fashioned.

Speaker 2 1:12:52

TMPA, and that is the official TMPA drink, but the particular verbenin. Now you know the answer to that Garrison brothers. Oh, thank God.

Speaker 1 1:13:00

Oh, yeah, yeah. What's your best saying? Not your favorite Angels and the.

Speaker 2 1:13:04

That's not Angel's Zimmi, that's for a different podcast.

Speaker 1 1:13:06

We'll have a drink at the conference, yeah.

Speaker 2 1:13:10

Not on Angel's Zimmi or not. There's no way. Yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 1:13:13

Which Garrison's your?

Speaker 3 1:13:14

favorite Honeydew. Oh yeah, that's a good one. That's a really good one, yeah.

Speaker 1 1:13:19

It's not like American honey, it's just too sweet.

Speaker 3 1:13:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah. I can't do some of those other ones. It's like drinking syrup.

Speaker 2 1:13:28

We all can enjoy those together.

Speaker 3 1:13:31

He'll be drinking his Nicola Bolter. Nicola Bolter and Miller 64. My point? Oh wait, alcohol beer. Hey, that is what it is. Drink water, just hydrate. No, oh, for the conference attendees, if you can't handle whiskey like Tyler. This year, for the first time, saturday and Sunday morning, from 7A to 11A, we will have an IV vendor.

Speaker 1 1:13:58

Oh yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3 1:13:59

So if you'd like to come down on Saturday or Sunday morning, if you get, if you over-conference and have too much conference one night, you can come down. They will take HSA flex spending. They will take all of your various ways of payment. What about EB2?

Speaker 1 1:14:17

I don't think so.

Speaker 3 1:14:18

I'll ask I'm going to give my Lowe's card and see if they'll take it. But if you over-conference one night, go downstairs and get an IV and refresh and rehydrate. When I got to looking into it, I know people are telling me that they don't even over-indulge the night before and they get them just because you feel really really good. You charge at the room. I don't know, I guess. Do you want to give everybody your room number?

Speaker 2 1:14:47

I mean, i'm not giving my room number, but they give Kevin Lawrence's room number. A room number, yeah. A room number? Yeah, check out conference.

Conference Announcement and Safety Reminder

Speaker 3 1:14:55

Please check out saving a hero's place and the great things they're doing over there. Come to conference and see Jojo Tovar, and we look forward to seeing everybody there, yep.

Speaker 2 1:15:08

Take a sip.

Speaker 3 1:15:10

Tune in. Please continue tuning in. Share the episodes with friends, family, like. Subscribe. Hit the bell so you get notifications. He puts them everywhere. I don't ever know where he puts them, the bell.

Speaker 2 1:15:23

The hell. Is that The?

Speaker 3 1:15:24

bell, i was thinking about doing the disding thing. Yeah, go ahead. Please stay safe out there. Call her at a field rep. if you need something, call the 800 number. if you need something. You got a friend doing the job without legal protection. Do what the two old timers did with Jo years ago and sit down and talk to him about providing legal protection for themselves. Stay safe out there. God bless each of you and God bless Texas.