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Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement
2024: Ranked #1 Law Podcast
Host: Tyler Owen and Clint McNear discussing topics, issues, and stories within the law enforcement community. TMPA is the voice of Texas Law Enforcement, focused on protecting those who serve. Since 1950, we have been defending the rights and interests of Texas Peace Officers by providing the best legal assistance in the country, effective lobbying at state and local levels, affordable training, and exemplary member support. As the largest law enforcement association in Texas, TMPA is proud to represent 33,000 local, county and state law enforcement officers.
Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement
#036- “Motivate, Inspire, Educate” w/ ATO Bridging the Divide Host Joe King
Ever wondered what goes on behind those stoic faces in blue? Well, that's precisely what we're peeling back in this episode with our esteemed guest, Joe King, host of the Dallas ATO Bridging the Divide Podcast. As a born-and-bred Texan and a passionate advocate of law enforcement,
Joe shares his journey, and we plunge into the heart of Southeast Dallas, the epicenter of narcotics and other challenges he faced as a police officer. We walk down the eerie corridors of a mental health facility, witness the evolution of policing, and experience the strength and resilience it took for Joe to find his niche in narcotics. This episode is a firsthand look into the gritty reality of law enforcement in Dallas, seen through the eyes of a man who lived it.
On a deeper note, we engage in a significant dialogue about mental health in law enforcement, an often overlooked aspect. Joe gives us an inside look into his work with the Dallas Police Department's Officer Wellness and Longevity Unit and their proactive approach toward mental health. We explore the power of persistence and storytelling, highlighting the impact Joe's work has had and his mission to foster a culture that prioritizes emotional well-being. Join us as we traverse the highs and lows of this thrilling journey. Dive in, and get a dose of inspiration, resilience, and a renewed perspective on law enforcement. Trust us; it's an episode you wouldn't want to miss.
email us at- bluegrit@tmpa.org
This episode of the BlueGrip podcast is sponsored by Saving a Hero's Place. Their Gala is September 23rd in Biloxi, Mississippi.
Speaker 2:August 21st of 2021 is our first release Ed Lujan, misty Van Keren and then Misty became a co-host Doing this podcast. The original design was to either motivate, inspire, educate, and I think you can learn a lot from people's failures if you just talking about it.
Speaker 3:Hey guys, we're back. Bluegrip podcast live in the studio with the sexiest man at Dallas Police Department 110% Clint McNeary, your host, and Tyler Rowan. Tyler Rowan what's going on, man? Not a lot of how you been Good? How was your drive? In this morning it was beautiful. It was beautiful and smooth Like a Crown Vic. It wasn't like a Crown Vic, it was faster. I call bullshit Whatever.
Speaker 1:No, man, we got a special guest, A guy that I've grown to actually my kids a bigger fan probably than anybody out there Joe King, the man, the myth, the legend. Welcome to the BlueGrip stage, brother. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:It's an honor to be here. Oh yeah, absolutely, I'm a big fan of y'alls as well.
Speaker 1:Hey, we share the love.
Speaker 3:So for our listeners, joe in their podcast is way bigger than ours. So you know there's. You stumbled on ours Bridging the divide. Dallas ATO podcast. Joe's the host poster, pinup guy Dallas PD. He is our unit. We'll dive in to all of that. Welcome, brother. Thank you.
Speaker 2:I'm a little upset that you didn't. You wouldn't let me do this shirtless and you know we can.
Speaker 3:I only have a jealousy. They'd either stare at your pecs or my gut the whole time.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, hopefully it would. It would, you know, take away from the void of personality.
Speaker 1:So you know, that's what I'm hoping.
Speaker 3:My gut no. Personality no.
Speaker 2:I'm the one, no personality.
Speaker 1:Bullshit. Some of the shit we talk about is pretty, pretty insane.
Speaker 3:We always start in. Let's dive in.
Speaker 2:Tell us about Joe, Where'd you grow up and Well, I grew up in Dallas in the Oak Cliff area around Redbird Mall and at the time I mean I went to Birdie Alexander, a little elementary over there, and all of my family, the Badavidas family, they're over there in West Dallas. Some of them still stay over there. At that time it wasn't. It wasn't that bad over there. Now I mean it's by Carter High School and everybody in this area in Dallas area kind of knows Carter and their history and everybody in the state.
Speaker 1:Yeah, carter football.
Speaker 2:So growing up over there I had an uncle that was. He was a Cockery Hill police officer, pete Jones, and I always wanted to, I wanted to be that that's out of the uniform, the badge, the gun. I just I wanted to, I wanted to get into that. How young do you remember thinking that I it had to been fourth, fifth grade.
Speaker 2:Okay, I mean yeah, a long time in Dallas PD. I mean, I was just seeing Dallas, the squad car and seeing the officers in that patch and in our badge. It would spend the same patch and badge forever. I wanted to do it in Dallas because that's where I grew up.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Did you ever run in to have any running? Because I was always scared to do it whenever. Well, number one, I probably couldn't get hired by the place I grew up at because I was. I was an adolescent and just a fuck up.
Speaker 2:There was a time in my life no, no, I did have. I remember playing baseball out in the street on close to Keest and Gladstone over there in Oak Cliff. My cousin, eddie and I were out there playing baseball and we're just out there and we kind of got off the street as we saw a squad car coming and one of the officers got on the microphone and started doing like a play-by-play. It sounded like the intercom, like uh, you know, like like a baseball game, and I thought that was the coolest shit and I was like man, I want to, I want to do something like that.
Speaker 3:And I don't know how old you are, but was that going to be 70s?
Speaker 2:No, I'm, I'm 24.
Speaker 3:No, I was 27, but I didn't want to yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm on it with the drink. No, no, that was in the seventies, yeah, and in early eighties the seventies.
Speaker 3:So dad got hired in 67 at DPD. Sixties and seventies DPD was like iconic I mean it was legendary Dallas PD. Lapd were like iconic, I mean super respected, like if anybody in the nation wanted to be a cop.
Speaker 2:Dpd and LAPD back then was I mean you were a god if you could get hired, yeah I think, if you look at the states when you, especially back then um, of course this changed now, but if you look at like you look at California, lapd was a standard you look at up northeast NYPD, and then I think if you look at the state of Texas, dallas was the standard and now that's where you know it.
Speaker 1:Kind of people gravitated to that Well in my, probably because it was the size of it, they had their own academy and they were the ones that set the standard on kind of what they wanted to be and who they were. And we had the Cowboys and you know, we had I mean we're Dallas Cowboys. Even though it wasn't over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it wasn't, hey, we didn't talk about that. Had the urban, now it's our own to cowboy. But I think also with the history, to the Dallas police, history when it comes to, I mean, the Kennedy assassination and just, uh, just Dallas PD has so much history that that's known nation, nationwide, and then we have a TV show named after Dallas, you know the Ewing's, I mean so. I just think that's uh, it's a natural popular hub. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3:So that's cool, and your uncle's at Cedar Hill? He was at Cedar Hill, yes.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep and no Cockroach Hill.
Speaker 3:Cockroach Hill.
Speaker 2:PD. And then, uh, yeah, and they're back there. Actually, uniform looks very similar, uh, to Dallas PD back then. I don't know what it looks like now.
Speaker 1:A lot of them did, though. Really, yeah, the half moon patch, yep, the buttons, the striping, the popping.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because they set the standard. I'm gonna call it for what you want to, yeah, so so grew up in Oak Cliff, was working at Chippendales.
Speaker 3:Was that prior to going to the academy or was that in? High school.
Speaker 2:No, I just came from there Just now. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so what as you navigated, you said really early on, looked up to police, kind of knew maybe that was the direction.
Speaker 2:No, I knew that I wanted to. I wanted to get into law enforcement and I wanted to do it in Dallas. But then I moved out to East Texas, uh, from from the Dallas area, out in little Quinlan Texas, which was like night and day. I went from going from Sunset High School in Dallas, which was getting central in the early nineties, and then I moved out to Quinlan which was, I feel, like I was out of the Dukes of Hazard, you know area, but uh, yeah, yeah, the Bangerle plant.
Speaker 1:You didn't happen to be with a cousin, or?
Speaker 2:anything? No, no, no, no, no. I'm not there, all right, well, that's next episode. That's part two.
Speaker 1:The electric bugaloo.
Speaker 2:That's right so so I go out there and it's like I knew that I did not want to be an officer out there you know, and out that far in the country.
Speaker 2:I knew I wanted to get back to Dallas and then still be an officer. But then also Rockwell PD crossed my mind too. Uh, from high school and then growing up, and then I started going to school and then, hell I, you know, I worked at Terrell State mental hospital. I was going to school, which was a uh, that's an episode of itself and the pressing job I mean because it was fully functioning back then.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But, um, I think it prepared me to deal with people and deal with unpredictable people, and I mean literally insane people and strong people.
Speaker 1:But it goes back to the point every single time that we've had some money on, either it's an explorer that had interest, but the ones that really had the experience in the jail Terrell State hospital is not a jail but it builds that foundation of communication and I think if you had that foundation of communication that makes every single person that I've known that had gotten a law enforcement, that has that foundation of that aspect. It makes them better cops, makes them better human beings.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, and it also it gets you practice at being hyper vigilant.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean really, because I mean some of them, some of the folks in at the, at the hospital, we would be having conversation, like you and I right now, next month, or swinging I mean. So you, I learned hyper vigilance at a young age, early twenties, which you know, and then also you have to have so much structure in there and you have to have a lot of restraint, just like an officer has a lot of restraint. Because we're human, we get pissed off, like everybody just sitting there talking to somebody, that is, they try to stab you, you know, with a pen or something you know, and then you know the temper and everybody, everybody's got a temper and different buttons are pushed. You know you got to learn restraint and as an officer and then I had to learn early on, before I even came on, I think it helped me.
Speaker 3:I had no idea you worked at Terrell State Hospital. Yeah, so to our listeners, tony Godwin, catfish Cops podcast, right, tony, go listen to his episode on Joe's Bridging the Divide podcast. On his side, hustle, tony does trophies and he called me one day because I live in Forty and said hey, man, do you think you could deliver some trophies for me for employee employee awards? I said yeah, dude, let's drop them off the house, okay. So he drops them off. So I don't know where I'm taking them. So he sends me an address His employee recognition awards for Terrell State Hospital. Have you?
Speaker 2:ever been by it. Yeah, have you been into the grounds?
Speaker 3:I mean I did one time this snot out of me to go there, that place. What Well for the list.
Speaker 2:It is freaking scary, yeah, for the listener to paint a little picture is that you drive in, it's like its own little city and it's it was built in the early 1900s. It's that old cobblestone walls and gothic. If you saw that movie, shutter Island with the Caprio, the mental hospital there, that's what it reminds you of it is. It's eerie and creepy walking in there. And when I started working there it was fully functioning. Now it's like probably only 20% active there. As far as who they bring in and and, and it was a locked down facility. I mean you'd have to walk up, unlock the door, come in quickly and turn around and lock it behind you and if you didn't, somebody escapes, then you know you're in deep shit and then you know, honestly, there was time, so I'd open the door and people were trying to like get out as I was coming in to work. Was it just?
Speaker 1:constant like screaming, Was it like? Was it very cinematic of what you see kind of on TV of the constant yelling and just the straight jack?
Speaker 2:Well, you know. So we use restraints and they were straight jacket, like they weren't straight jackets. And let's say my job if I had to describe my job at the time it was like in the movies you see the guys and like one fool or cuckoo nest, the guys in the white coats. Oh yeah, I didn't wear a white coat, I wore whatever I wanted to. But we pretty much did direct care with the, with the clients, and also we had to drag them with seclusion room. We had to restrain them, whether in their bed or in the exclusion room, fight, break up fights between them and other clients and then Is that what you refer to him as his clients?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we refer to him as clients.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I called Tony and I said if Hannibal Lecter comes out, oh she's gonna have to stab him with one of your acrylic awards and I was wanting to leave him on the porch and ring the doorbell and run and he's like no, you have to go in there and meet this guy. And I'm like there's no way in hell I'm going in this freaking it's a dude on a dolly with a mask on.
Speaker 3:And you know another thing that I just thought of that when I was there. So basically we charted, like I worked the deep night.
Speaker 2:So I was up all night work, you know, and they most, for the most part, they slept. I can't imagine being on those grounds at dark Dude. No, it's legit. It's legit scary. But one thing we did is chart the behavior of the clients. So when the doctor come in the next day, let's say A client was combative, you know, threatening or whatever, the doctor would come in the next day and read the charts and also hook you up with this, you know, and then a week later that that that aggression is gone. So that helped me, I think, also get into a document documenting things so.
Speaker 2:I, you know, looking back at the time I didn't think about it, but but I think that that probably helped me too with having a, you know, documenting and Covering ass mentality and also the hyper vision and say so, if I took away anything from working at that hospital other than getting a bunch of wild ass stories. You know it's, that was a depressing job, though. You're locked in there all day and all night and you know that's, that's what you have. I mean not all day, but your whole shift. You're locked in there, that's all. You see. It's just mental, mental health. Yeah, yeah, there was. I mean, there was one guy that he had been there. So I had.
Speaker 2:I worked on the adolescent unit, the geriatric unit, which was very depressing, the forensic, forensic or criminally insane unit, the forensic unit that was. That was a very eerie. But one guy we hit the mom, you know, deep nights. The morning crew. We had to get everybody up like a seven in the morning to make sure they're dressed for the Morning crew so they can get their meds and then get the breakfast. Well, there's a lot of people pissed off, didn't want to get up at six, 45 and get dressed. So it sounds like fireman.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Just kidding, just kidding, but we're not kidding, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2:Well, I love my farm, so one guy going there and I give him his, his a t shirt as a v neck white t shirt and pair of pajama pants to put on. That was, that was kind of the wear of the day. Next thing I know he's walking out in the hallway and he's got the t shirt on like pants and he's holding it around, his waist cinched up and you know the neck hole it. It wasn't covered much and I had to usher him back to the, to the room to cover up. Sounds like a normal day at Walmart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it pretty much I swear I behave whenever he took it back in there. I promise.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I almost wore that in today.
Speaker 3:That's how that was so how long did you do there? How long were you working there?
Speaker 1:Almost three years, and then you just ill know they decided to go ahead and just go dive off in a Dallas PD at that point, or do in the Dallas PD.
Speaker 2:And then I wanted to go to Southwest, because I grew up that area, and then go through our Academy. Best of the blue, two, five, two shout out.
Speaker 1:I want you to yeah, let's talk about your Academy class, because you you went to school with some pretty heavy hitters that were very much respected in Dallas police.
Speaker 3:What year? What year did you leave Tarrell State, graduate from Tarrell?
Speaker 2:State. I graduated from Tarrell State and you know what's? You know what's funny is. So I was. I was told I was going to start the Academy in early December. Well, at the end of October no, it was like middle of October I gave my notice and I left in October of 96 and I'm like, oh, I'll take it like a month off, you know. And then they knocked the Academy back and I was like Holy shit, you know. And then there was talk that I may have to reapply and all this. So I'm like I don't have a job and I was poor, I had just 22 years old. So I started the Academy, though, in January 97. Okay, and but yeah, I've had, you know, some. Chris Webb was in my Academy, scott McDonald God, I've got some mad. Edwards he was a Lieutenant. Now we have Lieutenant Hanley. He's over homicide. I mean, we've had some. We got some good people and we, I was lucky. How big was your Academy close? We started with 42, when graduated, 38, which in two that's not at all.
Speaker 1:No, what prompted you or what made you want to go Southwest? Was it just because you grew up there?
Speaker 2:Because I knew the area geographically and that and honestly, when, when rookies get out on the street, that's one of the biggest things is is not knowing where the hell you're going. You don't know your East from West and you go to South. I mean, I started in South Dallas, I was on deep knots my first shift and and it made sense Actually I was living out East anyway, so Southeast was closer to me.
Speaker 2:But when I got out to Southeast and deep knots, I mean none of the street lights work there you couldn't read any letters or numbers on the damn on the houses and you had to run everything on spotlight. And as a rookie I literally there was days that it was like I was driving around different country, like I was in Europe.
Speaker 1:So for the listener to kind of understand Southeast as far as Dallas is concerned, outlined this down to Hutchins.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. What are the boundaries? I guess what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2:So at the time we had Pleasant Grove, which is around CF Hanish and Jim Miller, that's where the station was. But then we also covered Fair Park. You know right, most people that are from Texas know where the state fair is, the fair park, and I will say that Fair Park is one of the deadliest areas in Dallas, hands down, yeah. And then we covered the Grove and at the time South Central wasn't open so we went all the way over to Lancaster Road. So the CF Han, lancaster Road and all of that in that geography out there is pretty spread out. So I would say the old Oak Cliff was a combination of the Grove and South Dallas, combined 100%, yeah. And so the and also the kind of client tell you would have as far as drug houses, but I would say most of the weight houses were out in Oak Cliff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Big time Damn. So you work there. For you were Southeast for how long, I mean. You spent primarily your career there, didn't you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I spent from 97 August. I got a cabin August of 97 and I left Southeast at. I left Southeast in early 2015 and I went to the. I was on the CRT for years there and you know, crime response team, we just handled drug street level drug complaints and that's what I like to do. I started doing that from 97. I literally did that from 97 to 2015. And then I went over and worked for then Sergeant Foy, now chief Foy, over South Central CRT and I did that for a year and then I was just kind of so from 1997 to 2016,. October of 16, I left the streets and went to legal Wow.
Speaker 3:How quick. When you got out of the Academy, did you figure out? Your niche was dope, like I got out and thought mine was dope and I couldn't find a roach in an ashtray to save my life, I ended up getting into stolen cars. I was always in chase with stolen cars and I couldn't find dope to save my life.
Speaker 2:You know, so I will. I will say that I didn't have the most proactive trainers. I really didn't. And we have, we have four phases of training, None of them mess with dope. I got lucky and when I got on little T, a partner of the Mo partner, John Valdez, who was already working with a, with a longtime veteran crew of dope chasers, Mike Mada, was part of that Mike.
Speaker 2:Mike was only a few shout out shout out DPA president, mike, mada, he was a few classes ahead of me. So you know, we all kind of came up and we learned from the old group that's, who taught us how to do it. And then, as time went on, a lot of them might mod is left and Pat Star left and Jaime Castro's left, and I was kind of like the oldest one left and my dumb ass did it way too long. And then I started. I started kind of taking on that role of teaching. So I didn't find my niche until I got off training and it took me a while. There was days I was like can I damn, can I do this job? I was telling Kristen that I asked myself a lot hey, am I going to be able to do this job for a 20 plus year career?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I think also by you, not by you having I don't want to say shitty trainers, because I don't, I don't implant, but but I mean by you don't having somebody who's not involved with the training aspect, you recognize that to be a fault of yours because of their lacking, and so that that prompts you to be a better trainer, moving forward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it probably did, but it also I saw a lot of people that did it the wrong way, going up and and starting when chasing dope from you know, on little T and 97 with those with that group and then up until 2010,. I mean I had seen so many people getting trouble for this or this and I saw it also the cultural climate change in in the country and also in Dallas as far as perspectives and the way peace police were viewed. You would go from not having any dash cams to having dash cams, to having an AVL and then body cams are getting introduced. So I just kind of learned and because I saw all those little levels of you know, generations of of policing and shit, Y'all know this, it policing can change from one year to the next Absolutely.
Speaker 3:Depending on what happens on, goes on in the country that's the hardest thing that I've watched older guys do Is refuse to accept that this cruise freaking changing. I got hired in Garland in 94 and Garland took care of business in 94.
Speaker 2:They still do, though it was maybe different, but they still do.
Speaker 3:It was salty. I mean we we tend we handle business. But as policing's changed, my academy started 31. We graduated, I think 28 or 29. But over the years, as it's changed, some of the guys from my academy and a couple before then they started acquiring a four year degree. They started mandating a whole lot of things, all the cameras and there's.
Speaker 3:I still have buddies that are like screw this, I'm not changing, this is BS that we're changing. I'm like you can either change, or they're going to show you out the door at some point, or internal affairs is going to show you. And it's really hard to evolve and it's easy. Now I've been gone 10 years but when we got hired you just went out, put that guy's in jail and I joke I kind of half-assed joke.
Speaker 3:Now you kind of have to have a associate's degree in it to be a cop because you're driving a mobile server. You got more electronics crap on you than I know what to use now. I mean you, you got a half-assed dabbling it to be in police now and everything you do you have to ask. It's kind of like being in the CIA. You have to assume at all times you're working under surveillance because you're being watching and recorded probably more often than you know. It's just totally changed and you have to change with it or it's going to freaking, eat you alive and spit you out In one point out for my small brain forgets it.
Speaker 3:We talk on here a lot about leadership. I love the fact that you said you learned from the dudes a couple of academies above you and I saw a meme this morning you don't have to have a title to be a leader or whatever. There's a whole lot of leaders that don't have lieutenant, captain, major chief, and you talked about Fred and motto or a class or two ahead of you and you didn't have. You didn't have to have a sergeant or a lieutenant showing you what to do because you had squared away badass dudes a couple of years ahead of you.
Speaker 1:That's how it should be, yep.
Speaker 3:And and it's been difficult for me at times because in Garland if you call the supervisor you better be dead or your police cars on fire. Otherwise you call a senior officer and if he doesn't know, the answer you find is another senior. You don't call a supervisor unless you're dying or something you don't. I think that's a lost art, that there's so much benefit from what, what we went through.
Speaker 2:Well, one thing that I noticed and I'm a really big believer is that I think the younger officers today, they they're underway more pressure and more scrutiny I mean, you can just turn on the news but but also I think there's such pride now that they don't want to ask a veteran officer and I'm not saying that all veteran officers are approachable, right yeah, and they're willing to help. But what I saw is people that would just kind of do it and wing it and hope it works out.
Speaker 1:And I don't think in this profession and especially in this day and age, you man, the wing of the prayers not the way. Or or you know the older generation, and I'm sure it was way worse whenever y'all began but the older guys, they're not going to front you out and make you feel like shit about doing it now and I think, as as we've evolved this, as with as far as our profession is concerned, you have guys that have that, you know, that mindset of you. Know, don't call me, don't bother me.
Speaker 1:I don't want to be bothered, you know, and that's, that's just kind of the mindset of where our profession has led.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's to the detriment of the of the profession. If you have that and I always, you know there are some people that that I've been around that think they're too good, are they? I'm not, I'm not, I don't get paid, fto pay and they have that mindset. No man, you know, help these guys out so they don't, they don't fall. You don't want to see them making the news and making us all look bad, cause if that happens, if they wing it and they screw up, they make a mistake and it's we're all going to feel it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look at the, you know, in 2010, we're feeling, we're feeling stuff in downtown Dallas and the state of Texas from something to happen in Minnesota, I mean. So it, it, you gotta look at the bigger picture on things. And I, I, I think that and I just I just wish what I've seen there at the end before I left the streets, is that officers also need to. You don't realize that you're a 30 year, a three year officer going on 30 year, you know, cause I saw a lot of that to say, well, you might be a hard charge compared to your classmate that's got three years on as well. Know that, that not many of us are reinventing the wheel and and there's other people that have done it and also maybe have done it better, and and and actually it failed, and I think you can learn a lot from people's failures If you just talk to them about it.
Speaker 1:You can probably more honestly, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:I told my boys and I said I don't mean it cocky, but you don't lose, you learn.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's true.
Speaker 3:A lot of truth, but you better learn every time you lose, but you better learn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I'm not going to catch up on you. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But you can whine and cry oh, I lost, I didn't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I learned a lot yeah.
Speaker 1:It sucked, but I learned a whole lot of value and defeat and well, speaking of Clint, talking about evolving, you know our profession really hadn't done a whole lot of good work as far as the mental health concern uh, the last 20 years, but I think we've really evolving. Probably the last. I've seen a huge improvement within the last five, Huge improvement.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh yeah, and I think, that has a lot to do with the military. You know it's coming off of war and so forth, but you're a part of a pretty unique group. They're a Dallas police department, uh, the owl group, and if you want to kind of talk about your involvement with that and how you even got involved with, with having the passion for that, it might have been back to the you know, the Tarrell mental health days, uh, and seeing some interactions with with clients back there to see how you can implement that to that DPD.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really think it starts with uh being involved with the Cissy officer foundation. Uh, because we have a confidential counseling program that's been in, that's been going since 2010. And ever since the July 7th attacks we've seen a 300% increase in officers utilizing that service. So I was already, I was getting involved with the ATO and and um, and I know we're going to get to the podcast here in a bit. But so in 2021, I go to some, I go to more mental health uh conferences and I meet with Dr T and first in their group and, and I got the idea for the podcast to get messages out there, to break stigma, to normalize conversations, because I'm going to throw a name at Dr Gil Martin was the first time I had ever heard about uh, mental health and the law enforcement realm. It just wasn't talked about and you know I mean, y'all know it's it's it's hard to get uh, especially older officers, to talk about it now.
Speaker 2:Uh, but the officer wellness longevity unit uh, we can see Al, and we have a cool little act, a cool little logo patch and logo that uh, uh, sergeant Allen Holmes made for us and um, chief Ramirez was tasked by chief Garcia. Uh, about a year and a half ago and he said hey, I want you to start doing some focus groups and checking on our department's uh temperature. Take it, see what's going on. What can we do better. We're having a lot of people that are going to IED. We're getting a lot of DWIs and you know, arrest of officers and and and check and say, well, ruben Ramirez, he, basically he comes back and does a report and he got me involved because I already had the podcast going and he knew the message that I was already spreading. So I was already, I was already connected to in that, in that that little world, uh, of not only a mental health world but also a mental health link, come to cater and first responder.
Speaker 3:Yep, I didn't know that was a chronology, I thought. I thought Al had started just prior to the podcast. Oh, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:I had the no, I had the podcast going in uh, august of 21 and, and, but in the Al just started up, uh up and um got 12 months ago. Go right at a year ago.
Speaker 3:Huge shout out to chief Eddie Garcia. If, if, the world had more Eddie Garcia's what. Somebody that walks the walk, talks the talk remembers these actual cop. Huge shout out to chief Garcia.
Speaker 2:I've worked for seven police chiefs, both interim and you know the main chief. He's the best that I've worked for. This is a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean this is a whole lot, he is he's, yeah, he's, he's, uh, he saw a problem or you know, and then he got. He got the right person to get in, ruben, to look into it, and we just ran with it. I mean, we, we picked the right people. Uh, we have a checkpoint model that, um, basically. So I'll go back and say that most traditional peer support, uh, peer support programs are I train you two up and it's volunteer. So they put out a casting call for who wants to be a peer supporter and then you have some people raising their hand coming Okay, come over here, we'll give you some training, and then you sit on the sideline and wait and some of the people that they pick.
Speaker 3:They shouldn't be there.
Speaker 2:That's right and people aren't going to go to them so they just kind of sit and wait. It's a reactive approach. The checkpoint model is basically taking handpicked people in your organization and Dallas PD. We identified several uh informal leaders through the department from that work in childhood abuse, swat, narcotics, homicide detectives, uh known bad asses uh in in as FTOs and people that work the street or some chiefs actually achieve shalt. She actually does checkpoints. So you identify your informal leaders throughout the department and people that are liked and people that are trusted. There. There are people of character and they're also people, matt Baines, people that have been in some hellacious uh situations and people know it. You know not somebody that you know. You don't want the department know what it is Somebody nobody's likes because nobody's going to go to them? Yeah, and so the department asshole, let's just call it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, there's plenty of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah department assholes, yeah, um so. So you, basically we get every critical incidents. We have a broken down gender categories homicide, anything, any offense dealing with a child, uh, fatality, accident, suicide. And then we have a other category that's like a critical incident. Let's say that y'all to enter a call guy comes out, shoots it y'all and then drops the gun. He misses. Y'all take, take him into custody, doesn't make the news, nobody hardly hears about it. But you two guys damn, nearly lost your life and you have to go home and you have to process all that and you struggle with it and however you deal with it, well, we get all the commands that females of everything to happen. So we then break them up within our group. I say I have five check winners under me.
Speaker 2:I send Matt Baines, kent Wolverton, I send all these different people, uh, cheating and shots. I get. I send them a name and say hey, here's the synopsis, the incident, call them just to check on them and see if they're okay. It means a lot to people, yeah. And actually now that we're a little over a year in, we've contacted over, I think, 1800 officers. Some people we've had to contact more because they work in the shitty part of town and they sadly go to a lot of trauma and we, we check on them and the numbers hover anywhere from 10 to 12% of the people that we've checked on in this past year, uh, that have actually asked for a resource. When I say a resource it's like hey, you know what, I would like to go talk to an ATO counselor. Yeah, you know, I'll try the city psych docs, or you know what, I'm okay on that. On that suicide, but let me tell you this my marriage is on the rocks, or you know, or something like that.
Speaker 2:It turns into something else. And the numbers we keep, we de-identify the numbers, we just it's just a number, the shift, the type of call. They went to the watch they were, uh, in the location they work Southeast and South Central you can imagine that have a bunch, because there's a lot of bad shit that goes on. So we kind of keep those for statistical purposes. But the numbers for people that actually have said you know what, I'll take you up on that. It's around 10 to 12%, which is high. It is yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, that's 10 to 12% of the people that, if they weren't touched, yeah, probably wouldn't have reached out if they weren't proactively touched proactive.
Speaker 2:That's the key. You got to be proactive about it. And hell, chief Vermeer is just uh, he wrote that bill. It just got, uh, just got passed in uh Texas legislator. That is at 38, 58. I believe it, and it basically is if a if agency in Texas creates a wellness unit and the model like this, then they could be incentivized to get grant money. So that, just that, just I think, got signed by the governor.
Speaker 1:That's one, I think, JW. We had John work us on one of our government affairs guys. He was talking about a bill similar to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a mental health yeah.
Speaker 1:That's good.
Speaker 3:It's popular now to talk about. We want to help people or we're thinking about helping people. I value y'all's model of value, the people that are involved in it, because it's easy to build a program and it's sexy and it sounds great. But so one of the biggest stigmas for non law enforcement listeners are if I come forward and say, hey, lieutenant Joe, I'm drinking too much. He's taking my badge, my gun, in the old style, right, the normal way. My badge is gone, my gun is gone. I'm on admin leave, maybe unpaid leave. I'm under eye investigation.
Speaker 1:They're probably starting a fitness for duty because I'm crazy, or if you don't have income coming in, you probably get it forced Yep.
Speaker 3:Um, so there's no incentive to come forward. Or even if it's not drinking, um, you know I'm screwed up. I haven't slept in three days and I'm. You know, whatever You're, there's a fitness for duty. You're bad, you're, you're done.
Speaker 2:You're treated like you have terminal cancer To realize you are pretty much done in the old days, yep.
Speaker 3:And what they have done. Um, if you come forward proactively and tell them I have an issue, you're going, they're going to take you and get you whatever help you will agree to go get. And even in the old days, if an apartment would approve you to go get assistance, when you came back you were probably stuck somewhere hidden, like at the auto pound signing in yeah signing in junk cars to be crushed or something, and under chief Garcia you agree to go get help.
Speaker 3:The day you return you go right back to work, you go in the position you were in and you start back to work because you don't have terminal cancer. You're not a screwed up POS, you have a. You have a work injury Right.
Speaker 2:You wouldn't do that, somebody, if you blew your knee out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. If somebody, if somebody fractured their foot and was out for six months, they don't come back and get assigned to the property room, retreated like they were. You know, they have this terminal issue and I can't, I can't fathom the leadership he has to step off in that because that's a first and that shaky ground and if people are afraid to actually do the right thing and and he's not even shy about it, I mean he's tweeting um, one of the officers, uh, went and made a bracelet while he was there, came back, wanted to give it to Garcia for supporting him, chief Garcia, garcia didn't hide it. He starts tweeting about photos, about the bracelet. I've backed my people and, like man, that makes me freaking cry talking for the listeners of your.
Speaker 2:This bracelet right here was made by Gordon Fulton. He is the same bracelet that he made for Garcia said it represents his life.
Speaker 3:It's awesome Investing in your people. Dude those people to freaking kill for yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So blue grit listeners, the uh Clint's talking about is so it's. 10 months ago Chief Garcia came up with an idea to we're going to give our employees both civilian and sworn of Dallas PD If you come forward before you have an alcohol related incident. I mean don't get pulled over while you're behind the wheel drunk and say, oh, I got a problem and you're, you're kind of covered. It's if you come forward and say which is hard in itself, somebody coming for it in this profession and saying I need help and especially I need help with an out of rehab. So if you come forward and and reach out for help, the city will give you 30 working days of a free leave and the wellness unit will. We've got several locations vetted in the Metroplex and even some like five hours away. We will help get you their transportation and will help pick you, drop you off, pick you up and you get paid. And also the assist Yossler foundation has helped with the financial burden of what's left over. The interest doesn't pay. It's crazy, yeah Well, yeah. So when Garcia brought it up, I was in the room and I went. That sounds, sounds interesting. I said if we have one in a calendar year, I think it'd be success. Well, 10 months in a policy we have we.
Speaker 2:We have 11 that have gone through and they've gotten out, and just two weeks ago two of them were promoted and they have come forward. Not some of them, hey, it's, and they go right back to their other. Their assignment they left and if they don't want to, we will make accommodations to help ease them back into their job. But there is you're not going to get buried at the auto pound. You're not going to go to the. You know no offense to the auto pound and property room. Right, historically in our department, that's where you get, it's punitive, but that's where your communications. You're not going to get stuff in dispatch. Uh, everybody has gone back to their assignment that they left. I have two that have come on on our podcast Gordon and uh. Now we attended Andre Taylor or SWAT. He goes back to working in SWAT in the in the early 2000s, which is unheard of.
Speaker 3:Yeah, In young Gordon. No offense, young Gordon, but him suffering what he was suffering, that young in life. Yeah, y'all probably truly saved his life because starting that young, he wouldn't have made it to 40 or 50 years old.
Speaker 2:Well, the doctor is actually a total and and, and Gordon is fine with it. Everybody else is. We work at a confidentiality valve, but Gordon has come forward and he actually has told his story, and great episode.
Speaker 2:God, it's, it was so powerful, so he gets out the day he got out of the day after he come. He got out, he met me down the wellness unit and he says, hey, tell chief, he saved my life with this policy. And I was like, oh, you know so. And it was on a Friday and the comp stats on a Friday and I said you know what? I want to go up there and tell him right now.
Speaker 3:Wow, well, that makes me freaking yeah.
Speaker 2:So I went up, I went up to comp stat and I kind of waited at the end and there had already been going time. I got up there, gersh is there and all the chiefs are there and all the underlings are there, and then at the end and I said, hey, I have something from the wellness unit, and I told chief that he got choked up. He came up to me after the fact and said, hey, no shit, I go, yeah, and he got choked up again. Well, like a week later not even week he emailed me and said hey, I know this is all in secret. If this, I would like to meet this guy, if he's willing to do it. So set up the meeting. He goes and meets the Garcia and gives him, gives Garcia the bracelet, and I mean the rest is kind of history and it and it really, um, I mean it meant a lot because Garcia was texting me the day before Gordon got promoted to call his name Damn it's awesome yeah.
Speaker 3:And I know, shout out to Warriors hard. I was in Vegas last week for national fop conference and I got spent a bunch of time with the Warriors, heart people, good people. But we were talking about the relapse percentage, the rough percentage, people that go because they're pissed or don't want to go or they're forced to go or is a condition employment. I think they they weren't incentivized to go there to begin with. Their hand was forced. The proactive approach, the openness we love you, we support you, go, get well and come right back and step right back in your role. I'm not a clinician, so it's uh, it's a wag. Was that a wag? Wild ass, guess yeah. Um, I bet the relapse percent because of the, the support, the hundred, the hundred percent of support that you guys have, and it's a, it's genuine, I would bet. Whatever the national average of relapse for people is, I bet you are well below that if I had to guess yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that goes back to the original mission of the, of the unit and establishing a culture and emotional.
Speaker 3:God bless yeah.
Speaker 2:Listeners. You need to hear Clint, the great Clint Meaneers episode on our as a man. It's good, it's, it's, it's, there's. There's some emotional parts, but, um, it's established in a culture that it's okay and it's not just a bumper sticker saying of it's okay not to be okay and break the stigma. I know it's real. We're putting the shit together that actually gets people to come forward and not think and not have the fear of my career is going to be done. Yeah, even if I go forward, I'm going to be buried somewhere and then then I'm probably going to be in a microscope that I'm probably get row-rowed it out. I'm never going to promote, I'm never going to get a gig somewhere that I want to and I'm going to be stuck somewhere.
Speaker 1:That's how it used to be For the listener.
Speaker 1:we had somebody on a couple of weeks ago at a Beaumont PD and his attitude after his critical incident was I'm okay, I'm okay and we had talked about it just briefly during his episode of in your experience and you're to a listener that's listening right now, that's in law enforcement and he wants to go, his buddy's going through an incident Is there something or any kind of indication training, uh, identifiers that when our partners are are are family or blue family, are going through stuff like that that you've seen and and that that person continues to push us away? Uh, is there something that we can identify within that, that realm, that that we can push on, or that you could, that you've seen or that maybe some your just recommendation.
Speaker 2:I would say get with the people that are close to them. I mean you, even the wellness unit. Um, we are still. We are still on the outside looking in. We just met with SWAT, uh, the entire group of SWAT. You that had in front of Dr T, and I kind of jumped up and said hey, because it was at. We at Dallas PD just had had an unfortunate incident. I said check on your people. We are here, but we're not your family. Your family, the SWAT unit, that's a tight knit group. They may kick each other in the in the crotch all the time, but they are family. They may fight all the time, but they're family. They know, they recognize, like you will recognize, when Clint is needing help.
Speaker 2:Keep at it. That's what I would say. Just keep at it. Don't just throw a half ass effort, like if, if I call Clint and I get shut down I call people sometimes and I get shut down with them Like, okay, you look up some some of his uh, classmates yeah, you have the ability to look up say who Clint? Go hell. Godwin, yeah, let's, let's, let's get Godwin. I'll text Godwin and say, hey, check on him. But but I will say though, uh, how that, that some people you will never know, yeah, there's no indication. And in your left with a lot of answers If, if it goes bad, uh, which it? It unfortunately has. But keep at it, try different things. You're going to get door slam in your face. There's always a back door. There's always a window to climb in, there's there's some way, and just keep at it and be persistent. Don't just go. Oh, I checked this box and move on. You go get your lunch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I mean that's that's a big part of it, I think, by you, uh, your podcast and what we can probably say way into that here in a minute. Um, when I, when I lived in Jefferson, uh, there was many, probably many, many, many times where I would I would just be overwhelmed with with emotion listening to your podcast because it was so touching. Uh, it's amazing.
Speaker 3:The. What I've admired about what you guys are doing for a while now ever, ever done. 21 year old when they're in the review board. Why do you want to be a cop? Serve, protect and save lives. Well, while we really ended up doing this chasing dope and putting bad guys in jail, y'all are actually saving freaking lives, literally actually saving lives, and that to me and I I'm fat 51 and more emotional than I used to be, but that's, that's the way bigger picture than than putting a bad guy in dope and jailed it for dope.
Speaker 3:That's going to Susie bonds out. He's going to buy dope again and you're actually freaking, saving people's lives.
Speaker 2:You know, you know I look at it as also we're giving, we're I'm my. My goal was I was in doubt, one of Dr T's three day seminars and uh, it's up there in Frisco and if y'all haven't gone to that three day deal, I highly recommend it. Heather Taudel is first. She does a three day deal. Well, there was a portion of it that she has 10 first responders up there at our ATL chairman, ed Lujan. He's still active sergeant Dallas. He's also our ATL chair.
Speaker 2:He got run over three times by suspect in 2015. He shouldn't be here, he should not be alive. Well, ed told his story for 10, everybody got 10 minutes apiece and firefighter mix. Some small town in far west Texas. Uh, there was an officer there. He had a hell of a shooting and he told and he got shot five times and he lived, drove himself to the fire station.
Speaker 2:But here in these stories and I was looking around the room of a combination of Garland, flower Mound, salina PD, you know, flower Mound, fire, all these combinations of all these, you know there's some. There was a. There was a lot of Garland guys there. They're all jacked and tatted up and you but I was watching everybody. Nobody was bucking around their phone and they were engaged. I saw a hand shaking and then it started up a conversation after it was over that I had never seen in this profession and I told Ed on the next break. I said I am going to start a podcast with ATL because at the time I was a board member and I was that's what spawned it.
Speaker 2:That's what's that that three day deal and that portion of Dr T's uh presentation here and other people's stories and I went that there's something, there's value in this. This can be, this can help people. For listeners, Dr T that's Heather Tweddell and Dina, and Dina is one of them. He's she's got in a Chicago PD, a former Chicago officer here. He did 20 years there. Now he's here in Texas, up there in Frisco, with her uh Robert. Um, yeah, she's got a team. I think she has 17, 17 different uh counters in the area and she is also her great work. Yeah, great work. And there were some of our ATO counters. That's how we got linked up.
Speaker 3:So you're, you're at Dr T's class spawn Shit. I'm going to start a podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I didn't know what I was doing.
Speaker 2:Well y'all got a hell of a nicer place than we do Our minds kind of like pot luck. I just, you know, I grab my shit in the case and go, but so start digging around and I got with Betsy Orton, the Dickie foundation, who that Dickie's had their own podcast.
Speaker 3:Shout out to Ms Maureen Dickie. She's a rock star.
Speaker 2:Yep, huge first responder supporter. And and the Dickie foundation. I'm actually on that board as well. We get protective gear for police and fire across the country, you know. So it hard to go over there, the Dickie family, Um. So I started digging around, I started figuring out what works and, uh, anybody listens. From the first episodes up to chief Garcia, we had the shittier mics.
Speaker 2:What your um about what time frames you kicked this off. I started working on it. I went to Dr T's deal in June of 21. By July I'd gotten a board approval. I had to do like a PowerPoint, everything to the board. And everybody was like, hmm, okay, you know they, they probably you know all right, yeah, yeah, I didn't know that it was going to work. So August of 21 of 20, august 21st of 2021 was our first release and it was at Luhan, and by the time we recorded I had three in the can which I found out later on.
Speaker 2:It's very valuable to have back pocket and yeah, we just started a at Luhan, misty Van Kieran uh was episode two that us, marshall, chris White and then, and then Misty became a co-host and I like having my friends on as co-host as well, I mean like and and also other prior guests too, I think. Listen, I think I think one thing that people start trying to make themselves a star or something People notice you start taking a bunch of of of gym selfies and and and like making it about you. I think it's going to turn some people off and I, when, when somebody comes on the show, and Clint, when you're there, I brought it. I wanted God. When they're cause, you are classmates. He was close and honestly, he added a hell of a piece to it because he talked about, you know, showing up with a strapping young baseball player to meet with you. But it also that was about design to relax you Right Cause I get Matt Baines comes on Will Chesney and Navy sill they're friends.
Speaker 2:I know, if I have, I want you to come on with your cool ass country voice, but I also want you to be there as as his, as his support as he's going through this, and that's what I try to do. I want everybody to be respected, to get their story out the way they want. And also, you know there's some emotion. I mean you. The first time you and I ever talked, clint is after Lance Crawford's episode. You called me up and you're like damn no, lance is.
Speaker 2:That was a hard episode to record. If anybody knows Lance, it was, we all. Y'all heard the edited version sitting there with somebody like that that's not used to talking, and tell Mike they're not out hawking a book, they're not out, they're not a professional speaker. And I think getting those raw, genuine stories out there from people that aren't polished, that aren't really comfortable, but get them out there and I think it resonates with people. And I've been very lucky to have, I've been very lucky to have really amazing guests, but also I've been really lucky that they've wanted to open up to me and I think the listeners, the listeners have heard that.
Speaker 3:Well, and I think Cardass cops learn when they finally talk. Talking can be therapeutic.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I've talked to guys that have recently been through it, that have just now started talking, and I'll say is it not therapeutic? Well, you know, I did kind of feel good when I went and talked to a couple of buddies that one time, or when I got forced to tell an Academy recruit class and I talked about it. I did kind of feel better because I'd never talked about it. I think that's helpful. Funny story about Joe. I talked to Joe probably 20 episodes in and he was like I'm done at 50. We're doing 50. I'm done because this is emotionally exhausting.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:It's mentally draining and that's not a sympathy.
Speaker 1:As I'm wiping tears away from that.
Speaker 3:That's not a not a sympathy, but it's. It's emotionally and mentally and trying to put the best product forward. You can, and I talked to Joe. Probably in Joe, the reason we've been somewhat successful is is only because of Joe's help and God wants help because they had stepped off way before we did and they were open arms. It wasn't like we were competition, it was whatever we can do to help. But Joe's like man. This is really hard mentally and emotionally. I'm doing 50 episodes and this deals over. I'm done. What episode are you on, brother?
Speaker 2:Well, we just released 75 or 75th episode and I have now just before I came here, I recorded one with a great Gretchen Griggs B of a T coal and her husband. She's awesome, she is awesome. So now I have 10 episodes that haven't aired yet, you know. So, yeah, well, now my next goal is to get to a hundred episodes.
Speaker 2:And then I'll, then I'll reevaluate. But yeah, that is. It is real emotion fatigue because you look at this. So the ATO podcast is not my full-time job. My full-time job is the wellness unit and I will say that that in itself is extremely emotionally and draining, because there's days that I like, come on, tell my fiance I said, damn, I don't know, I counselors do this. I get people dumping on me from two year rookies to 30 plus year officers that are just, and I think to myself because I've been with DPD since 97. I'm like where were people going before? No, we're. We got people not just reaching out on checkpoints, we got people ringing our doorbell, we got people. I got supervisors texting me hey, check on this guy. I think it's creating the culture of taking care of each other and that's what it was designed for. So you know, a little over a year in and having 11 people and honestly I think number 12 was very close Go to rehab and put their faith in the city of Dallas.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but when I sit on the cell because you're actually changing lives, I think I misspoke. You're changing the entire culture and the cool part is, as you told me three or four months ago, that you are getting blown up from all over the country because people want your model. So you're not only changing the culture at Dallas. My dad did 34 years there. I grew up running down the hall in homicide. I mean I have a special, special place for Dallas. You aren't just changing the culture at Dallas, though. When you have people you sit all over the country that want your model to copy it Shit I highly recommend. I wish every chief had the intestinal fortitude that Garcia does to lead from the front, be unapologetic about taking care of people, because all he's doing the way he's investing in people. Dude, I bet he has the loyalty those people would go freaking charged a mountain for him.
Speaker 2:And I will say that under past administrations I don't think this would have flown because I wouldn't have trusted it. That's right and honestly. And I've been too afraid politically, absolutely, absolutely. But so I will say that all the dope dealers I arrested and all the gang bangers arrested and and to shut down these houses for the poor old people that have to live there on that street and amongst the garbage that live there forever in South Dallas, to help them it's rewarding. But to help peers and me, help somebody six months ago see him in the hallway yeah, that's what yeah, that is way more rewarding.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Gordon, I have no doubt you saved that young man's life. You know, a 50 year old dude. He may have already been going to drink himself to death anyway, or five divorces down and, you know, bankrupt or whatever. But taking a young kid like Gordon and giving him the rest of his life to lay out in front of him, literally, he just promoted a sergeant.
Speaker 2:He's now going to be a future leader of Dallas and in any other department.
Speaker 3:They would have been like dude, you're never taking the promotional here exam the rest of your life, so no, it's, it's rewarding, it's exhausting.
Speaker 2:You got me, Missy, yeah. So doing this podcast it was the original design was to either motivate, inspire. Educate because there's a lot of topics, we have topical episodes and I'd all mental health driven. We have a lot of doctors, but I love the historical ones. Well, I'm a history boss, especially Texas history, you know, and but at the very least, at the very least, you might get a couple of chuckles from our stupid ass shenanigans. And yeah, I try to sprinkle those in there when I can, to kind of have some levity to the, to the, to some of the stuff we talk about.
Speaker 3:But well, I've wondered where your sick perverted humor that I love is from, and I learned it's Terrell State.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you graduated from Terrell State man. I picked it up from there and, yeah, it served me well. I got a. I probably got a master's in there's no doubt Crazy means.
Speaker 3:So what's, what's the future look like?
Speaker 2:Well, I want, I'm going to, I'm going to continue the wellness unit and and the what wellness unit's going to be evolving. Now we're going into the fitness, physical fitness world because we just had, we decided to officer just just yesterday passed away from medical condition and we're trying to, we want the department to go. Wellness is wellness, whether it's physically sound, you know financial financial you ever get with financial caught, I mean.
Speaker 2:so we want to take a bird's eye view of everything. Not just everybody needs to see a counselor, not everybody needs to pass a fitness test. So we're doing some things to incentivize incentivize fitness in Dallas and that's that program should be coming out very shortly, probably before the end of the year. That's awesome.
Speaker 3:Would you start going to the gym for God's?
Speaker 2:sake man, I know I need to. I need to be a better example for the start doing some that's all I do in the podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm going to continue. My goal is, you know, and my fiance, no, I'm full of shit, but my goal is 100 episodes. She's shaking her head, yeah, she knows, she's well aware. So my goal is a hunt, get to 100 episodes and then see where I'm at. But I've already got ideas past the 100. So I'm going to go past that and having support of, of, of, of y'all and man, I, I feel like I'm seeing y'all studio here. I feel like that I record mine like in one of those hobo tents under under a bridge. You know, this is just incredible and I'm, I'm, just I'm. Y'all need to come on both y'all to ours. I think it'd be fun.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that is better because we have a face for radio, so it's better we come on.
Speaker 2:Well, why do you think I wore my hat and work down to look. No, I'm going to continue my wish mission with wellness and helping my peers as much as I can, as long as I can do it. I got 20, I almost had 27 years on January with DPD, and then, yeah, I mean I've getting getting married. In October I got a daughter, sweet Carmen, Congratulations.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you, so 27. On how many are you going to?
Speaker 2:do? I don't know it would. We'll just see what comes. What comes my way. If anything comes my way, I'm not just right out the DPD wave. I mean I'm in a.
Speaker 3:Joe Rogan calls You're going to tell Dallas goodbye, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, joe Rogan, yeah, please call it's on Spotify too. I know you have exclusive. No, I don't know. I want to continue doing what I'm doing and make what I and what I'm doing now. I want to be better, I want to make it better, and anybody listens to the early episodes. And here's now. I think you got a little bit. The sound damage has got better, but I want the mission to just evolve and get better. I'm not trying to check off boxes. I'm not promoting. I'm a slick sleeve. I never promote. I don't plan on promoting. I want to just keep doing what I'm doing and helping as many people as I can, because that is rewarding. That's fuel. That's fuel for me.
Speaker 1:Well, I will tell you this through podcast. The podcast community it's not really a law enforcement podcast Community is usually just a couple of y'all us and then catfish cops, really here in Texas. I think there's some other ones out there, but you know, the podcast stuff is as as made me, got me introduced to you and, man, if I could sum up just anything about you as a person passionate, you know you're just a passionate person. You're loving, I mean, my kid. I lost you more than he does me sometimes.
Speaker 1:So, from TNPA standpoint, from my standpoint, from Tyler Owen standpoint, thank you, thank you for making law enforcement better. Thank you for making our law enforcement profession more passionate and more aware about mental health and what you do for the men and women of Dallas Police Department within the out unit. But our listeners need to realize also ATO just doesn't do stuff within Dallas Police it's, it's really within, really across Texas and, just like Clint said, you're, you're changing the culture nationally with the out unit and your work there. So, uh, you know I hate to say this, but you're a big fucking deal and and it and it. It means a lot to me for you to come on. Uh, just what a couple months ago you got recognized at the state capital. Uh for your own.
Speaker 3:Oh, dude, we, we almost missed that yeah.
Speaker 1:So I mean uh, man, you're doing, yeah, you're doing phenomenal work, brother.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it was. Thank you, man. Y'all don't know, y'all don't know how much that means for me to hear that from you. I got it.
Speaker 2:Y'all got, y'all are. Y'all are amazing at TNPA and what. What y'all do across the state of Texas and the beyond, uh of being there and being having having TNPA in your corner has been around since the fifties, right, and and they have them in your corner and and have voices and y'all are the voice of Texas and that's for a reason and I'm, I'm proud. I don't you know, and you should want your friends to succeed. You should want them. I don't look at somebody going hey, I will show you, I'll show you exactly how we did it.
Speaker 3:That's what's so? That is, that is what I love about all of Dallas. So we've been working on a skeet shoot. Yep, I reached out to ATO. They're like dude, we'll open our books, we'll show you what works, what doesn't work. Uh, when I reached out to you, I was like I reached out to Lori Berks and I said hey, we're not a competitor. You know, joe. She's like yeah, here's his number. The minute the second me and Joe spoke, he's like here's where I failed. Don't do these things. Here's what's worked. Really well, try these things. I mean it's I can't, I can't. That does not happen within law.
Speaker 1:Within our profession that is not common. Usually it's like screw that guy, he's not going to compete with what I'm trying to do, taking, taking the spotlight off them on the somebody else. They don't want that and so for y'all to do that, it's phenomenal.
Speaker 2:Those are people that are trying. They're doing what they're doing for the wrong reasons. They're trying to become superstars themselves and and they're not in my opinion. I don't believe they're focused on what mission they're trying to do and I never looked at when you, when you reached out I remember I was on the way to get sandwiches when you had our first conversation. You just called me out of the blue and I think I sent it to voicemail because I didn't know and I heard you know, oh shit that's coming here.
Speaker 3:So I called you back and we talked.
Speaker 2:I'd never, even it didn't cross my mind. Oh God, I can't show him all my cards. I don't want him to well, you were literally.
Speaker 1:Why do that?
Speaker 3:No, it's stupid. He was literally sending me like here's the algorithm of where we've done well. Show me the statistics of what we've done well, what we've not. And that was super helpful, super helpful. I have three questions. Okay, what's your 27 years on? What's your very best day in 27 years? What was your hardest day in 27 years?
Speaker 2:Trying to make me cry here.
Speaker 3:You don't have to dive in deep, just what's your very best day and what's your worst day hardest.
Speaker 2:Hardest day was seven, seven, oh God.
Speaker 2:I mean that, that's just that that's a kick in the, that's a kick in the cross. Then, to all law enforcement, not just Dallas and state of Texas, I would say the. It's hard, you know. Honestly, I very best day, I'd say, after I had I had neck fusion, crash squad car and then the week I get back from that, rehabbing from that all the time, blow my knee out and training, and then getting back from that, getting back on the streets, I think that's probably the best. The best day is getting back to work, overcoming, overcoming those injuries and then getting back and getting back out to the south. South. These put it on that uniform.
Speaker 3:My third question you said you're 31 years old, about to be 32.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:What would 32 year old Joe King tell seven year old Joe King that admired his uncle and thought one day that would be kind of a cool job. What would? What would 32 and a half year old Joe King tell seven year old Joe King?
Speaker 2:I would say do it but also enjoy and don't don't rush anything starting off. Enjoy the academy, enjoy it, enjoy it. Looking back at my classmate from 97. There's only like six or seven of us left on the department. I've got some lifelong friendships early years in southeast. I don't work with the mic mother or Frederick Fraser or Pat stars anymore. It's, it's over. Enjoy it, enjoy it. Don't focus on the negativity because it's easy to do it in this profession.
Speaker 2:Yeah focus on the fun, what the rewarding job that law enforcement is. Focus on that and then that will carry you through the rest of your career.
Speaker 3:I think that's a great point. Dad did 34 years there and he spent a lot of time hyper focused on when I retire, when I can finally get out of here. I think you make a great point. If all you focus on is a destination, you're going to miss the journey. And there's a lot of bad days and politically it's challenging right now but, as we always joke, it's the greatest front row seat to a circus shit show. It's a lot of fun and if you focus on the destination, you may miss a whole lot on a journey. That's pretty good, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Well, you've got. No, you've listened to some episodes, listen to some and we got to ask some rapid fire questions. We're going to end it on that, okay, what is your favorite movie or line from a cop movie? Your favorite cop car? Your favorite drink of choice?
Speaker 2:All right, favorite drink, old fashioned I like my good old fashioned, with a buffalo trace. That's your mouse. Water and Clint. Yes, sir, favorite cop car, the 94 Chevy or the Corvette engine.
Speaker 3:By man.
Speaker 2:And then I love that joke. I'll say the favorite Well cop movie, my favorite cop movie is lead the weapon and favorite line from that show is you have the right to remain unconscious.
Speaker 1:That's a good one. You've been so pleased, I'm sure you've lived that.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, a little bit. And then I've got to say the wire is the hands down the best cop show where the TV show ever I mean, it's the most accurate. Yeah, that was a really good one, oh yeah. See, now I need to blow through it. It's all on HBO. Yeah, watch it.
Speaker 1:It's really good. I think you've even I've actually had that conversation.
Speaker 2:I probably beat the listener down for many episodes talking about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, any guy thing else Clint.
Speaker 3:No, I'm emotional freaking. I am to go drinking old fashioned yeah, I do too.
Speaker 1:And again I can't, we can't thank you never coming on, dude, cannot thank you coming off. My son wanted me to tell you this. I mean a lot to him and he wanted in the episode by telling joking, that in the Owen household we always say clear eyes, full heart, can't lose. That's a good way in there.
Speaker 3:Our listeners, please. If you haven't ever checked them out, please check out. Bridging the divide with the Joe Kim. That's his real name, that wouldn't stage name. Yeah, the Joe King King Joe.
Speaker 1:King Joe. So you guys stay safe out there. Again, we got the saving heroes place. Guys, september 23rd, show them some love. Hit the Facebook up Bluxy, mississippi. God bless you guys. As always, may God bless Texas. Thank you.
