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Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement
2024: Ranked #1 Law Podcast
Host: Tyler Owen and Clint McNear discussing topics, issues, and stories within the law enforcement community. TMPA is the voice of Texas Law Enforcement, focused on protecting those who serve. Since 1950, we have been defending the rights and interests of Texas Peace Officers by providing the best legal assistance in the country, effective lobbying at state and local levels, affordable training, and exemplary member support. As the largest law enforcement association in Texas, TMPA is proud to represent 33,000 local, county and state law enforcement officers.
Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement
#037- “In The Eyes of a Ranger”
Prepare yourself for an incredible adventure alongside Retired Texas Ranger John Vance. The way he recounts his story is so vivid, you'll feel as if you're right by his side, experiencing the gritty dust on your cheeks and the warm sun on your hat. John's journey from being a simple horseshoer in Orange, Texas to becoming an esteemed Texas Ranger is nothing short of awe-inspiring. His determination and tenacity will leave you feeling motivated and inspired. Trust us, this is an experience you won't want to miss!
email us at- bluegrit@tmpa.org
When I walked in to interview for the position of a deputy, I told him I said hey, I said you got me until I graduate. Once I graduate, this is my goal. This is what I want to do. I knew that I wanted to go to DPS because eventually I wanted to go to the Rangers. That was the whole purpose for DPS. Find the thing that you love to do, and you'll never work a day in your life. That's true.
Speaker 2:Better yeah, welcome back BlueGrit podcast. I'm your host, tyler Owen and Clinton McNear. What's going on, man?
Speaker 3:Just hanging out. I heard you, I heard you, I got a packed house today.
Speaker 2:Got some pretty good guests.
Speaker 3:We've got good guests.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we wanted to highlight one of them. If you want to intro one of them and talk about what she does for us and the importance of what she does for us, she is important. Yes, she is.
Speaker 3:So when our attorneys call in and trying to work through billing issues or trying to work through case assignments, or when our members call in trying to get some legal clarification or wheels, they deal with Kelly Forman and we wanted to be sure that people had a face to put a name with hey Kelly, the primary job that she does also is wheels, and that's something that I think that we overlook as an organization of how important they really are.
Speaker 2:We've heard the horror stories and we've seen the bad side effects of that doing that. It's also one of your probably your largest and most probably tedious jobs as well.
Speaker 4:It's one of the smallest things I can do, but, like you said, it is.
Speaker 2:There's just so many of them, yeah. But, it's a very big important thing Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 4:Yes, we have received phone calls for family members of deceased members who didn't go that take that extra mile.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I appreciate you. I don't know about Clint, but we all appreciate you at.
Speaker 3:TFBA. So what is a day in the life of Kelly Forman? Look like A lot of typing A lot of that.
Speaker 4:That's where these guns come in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:I spend some time on the telephone but a lot of emailing, a lot of typing, preparing wheels and processing the admin stuff legal admin stuff, processing the legal, paralegal type work, processing cases and invoices and, yeah wheels, fixing up all of our errors. No.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they're great.
Speaker 2:Fixing Tyler's errors.
Speaker 3:Yeah, tyler, yeah, yeah, you can't ever miss that month, and so we do a basic will, and then we provide the information where they can plug in a medical power of attorney.
Speaker 4:We do advanced directives or we can provide they're filling the blank forms and they're, I think they're updated by the state. But yes, we can provide those and they're ready for print. Just print them out. Fill them out. That's awesome.
Speaker 3:And it's a basic will. So if you own three companies and offshore accounts and two yachts, probably not the will for you Probably not If I get an estate attorney for that. But for the normal cop two divorces and a truck and a gun.
Speaker 4:I can help you. We can do that. We can help you out. We can do that, we certainly can.
Speaker 3:That's all I needed, for mine was that one.
Speaker 2:Cool, we love you, we appreciate you Well, thank you.
Speaker 3:We talked on an earlier episode about people don't update their will and their beneficiaries and when they pass away their beneficiaries from two X's ago. If somebody wanted to update in addition to doing new will, they could reach out and update or change or redo their role with you.
Speaker 4:If we have it on file, I can just pull it up, edit it, update the date and send it back.
Speaker 3:And we do them for member and their spouse.
Speaker 4:Correct, excellent.
Speaker 3:All right, good stuff. Kelly is the brains and the beauty that keeps this Her to kitty cats moving forward. Yeah, at all times.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely All right. She told us we had to keep this short cause she's busy and doesn't have time for us little people. So thank you for stopping by. We appreciate you. Thank you for having me. Thank Kelly. Thank you, kelly.
Speaker 2:Well, the uh. The other guest we have is a good friend of mine that I've known for quite some time. Uh, a man that I have so much, so much, so much respect for um was one of the first DPS sergeants that I met in the East Texas region. Uh, based out of Marshall Former. Is it retired? Retired Ranger, john Vance? But now I did not know that you went to work where you're working now, texas and Southwest cattle ranch association.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So you're still maintaining that title of Ranger.
Speaker 1:Uh, I picked up a new title. It's called special Texas Ranger. But then again, my mom always said I was special. Yeah, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. We wanted to have you on uh. So much what Rangers do as far as you know. The TNPA response of it uh is that you have to, you know, show up to officer involved shootings, and then I mean, that's just a small sliver of what you know Texas Rangers do. But we wanted to bring you on and and uh talk about you as a person, uh, in your career, because it's really a I mean, you're just a phenomenal person, uh. You brought your lovely wife with you, uh, and I again I can't tell you how much I respect I got for you. I was telling Clint that you know I've got a good friend of mine coming on who, uh, who I love and admire.
Speaker 2:So, welcome to the bluegrass stage.
Speaker 1:Glad to be here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Appreciate you reaching out.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I thought you were getting, I thought you were fully retired so I thought you'd have time for us. Didn't know that you had went to work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it didn't last very long.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, that's what you were telling us before the break.
Speaker 1:Two hours two hours.
Speaker 2:That's insane. That's insane, well, tell us. But we kind of start the, the, the episodes, off of telling us you know where you grew up and tell us about John and who John Vance is.
Speaker 1:Well, I graduated from high school at a little Cypress Morrisville in orange and um didn't have a well, I was shooting full shooting horses full time for a living. And uh took a job working offshore and um enjoy that. But uh, there was no benefits on either one. And uh kind of flounder. My father says, okay, you got two choices. I uh, you know military college. You know, apparently the trade school is not working out for you, Right? And he said, uh, I'll pay for one semester college If that's not for you, I've got a friend of mine as a recruiter, you know you'll be in. That's man, that's great. So I'm thinking well, you know, I can party for one semester on my dad's dime and then go to work.
Speaker 1:I mean I go to military, you know, go that route. So um enrolled in San Diego State University and um I was there for that one semester and two things I learned um. First of all, as I thought it was, I could.
Speaker 2:actually you've been orange. We've got a lot of people on here that bear from orange, so you know, I was worried I was going to pass.
Speaker 1:I passed, you know, d's passed, by the way, um. But number two is that, um, I had spent my short adult life around the backside of a horse, or uh, on a or a gotten middle of the Gulf coast or Gulf of Mexico, with, um, a bunch of you know, nasty, smelling rough neck, rough neck, yeah. And now I'm at college and, um, it's full of beautiful women, yeah, you know. And then I got, but I wait my options because I'm, you know, it's always about waiting your options, right, so I wait my options. That's okay. If I go in the military I'll be back around a bunch of smelly men. Okay, again, still climbing М parachuting, getting, uh, it's painful but a little harder. It's getting, but a little hard but more difficult. Looking, and then之後 you change, is an Women men. Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, I think I can do this, yeah, so, anyway, I graduated Samu State University.
Speaker 1:I worked my way through school. I was working graveyard shift for a Walker County Sheriff's office, started off in the jail and eventually went on patrol, and so I'd get off work at 6am, go to the house, shower. I was, I was, I was a guy who always went to the 8am morning classes. You know, no, no college kid wanted to go to. I was there because I was still awake. You're about 19 at this point 19.
Speaker 3:How long do you shoot horses?
Speaker 1:for Total is 20,. A little over 20 years, wow, yeah.
Speaker 3:Shooting horses? Yes, no, kid, thank you.
Speaker 1:You got to figure that out and you walk upright. Yeah, well, yeah, you look healthy and still walk upright. Well, the first time right after we got married, and I was shooting horses, I come in and we were planning on going out to eat. So I come in. Of course my hands are all cut up because I was dealing with a little bronc, you know, and, uh, you know, of course I smelled like I've been dealing with a little bronchi and uh.
Speaker 1:So I told my uh, you know, some of my wife was like, hey, let me take a shower real quick. And then you know we were ready to go and she goes. Man, I can't. You know, we're married, my baby's not going to have these cut up hands and have to work this hard. You know that's, that's ridiculous. I said, well, you know we got to make a living.
Speaker 1:I said here uh, if you would, would you make me a deposit slip for these checks and then when we're in town we'll deposit it in the bank, you know. So when I got out of the shower and I got back and getting ready to go, she goes. We're going to stop by Walmart, buy you some band-aids. Oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:And how long?
Speaker 3:did you do offshore?
Speaker 1:Offshore. I worked there for almost a year. We were working on a, a rig. We were two weeks on. Not a rig, it was a pumping station, a transfer station, and I worked um two weeks on, two weeks off. So when I'd hit the beach then I'd shoot for two weeks and then go back and, you know, go for another two weeks, Wow.
Speaker 3:Like Hilo, transport out. How far out in the ocean were you?
Speaker 1:guys, we were right at a hundred miles and the rigs that we were uh, unmanned rigs were pulling oil from was right on the shelf, so they were about 150 miles out.
Speaker 3:Wow, and how were you living out there doing that with roughness? I? Was um 17, 18 years old yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was a different world.
Speaker 2:That's some life experience. Yeah, you grow it quick that way. Yeah, so can you kind of talk about you know, grown being around rough necks and then working the jail and shooting horses and kind of how that uh, later on in your in your career, in your law enforcement career, how that helped you out, I guess later on it's kind of him out to work at the God of Manion.
Speaker 1:Several ways. One is that, um, one thing I will say about the guys that I worked with on his offshore um, it was all business and we're going to work and you're going to. You're not going to slack up and, believe me, they would let you know it if you did. You know, I witnessed that.
Speaker 1:It never happened to me, but I witnessed that and I thought well, there's my motivation to keep right on working, you know. And so I learned a lot from that course. You know, start off, learn to work ethic from my father. You know, you, you didn't land bid and Saturday mornings was for work. You know, it wasn't for laying up, you know that sort of thing. But um, and then the uh funny, you mentioned that the shoe and the horses. Uh, I'm around a community that I love. You know the ranching, you know form and ranching community. So, uh, when I retired and I took my second job, I went back into the community that I'd left.
Speaker 2:It was, it was, it was nice. Yeah, you're basically stealing money from the state. I mean, if you want to be honest with you, I mean you're getting paid to do something you love and I and. I you love being a Texas Ranger and you love working for DPS, but I mean you legitimately, are going into a profession of a world that you literally loved and have a passion for.
Speaker 1:You know the old saying, and my dad used to say it all the time but uh, but it was if you find the thing that you love to do, and you'll never work a day in your life, that's true 100%, um, one thing.
Speaker 1:That um was kind of a neat concept. The Rangers did it. And now the now with the cattle race association, the same thing. When I went to work for the Rangers, you know, I was used to the structure that was used to the scheduling that was used to when you're on, when you're off, that sort of thing, and I I asked the that question. They're like just go to work. When you go to work, you know which, which means instead of clocking on at 8am, I'm going on at 6am, you know, and just, and I'm working past five just because it was me scheduling my own schedule. You know, and are your business, yeah, and they're getting more, they're getting more product out of us than if you give me a schedule.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, absolutely. I agree. So worked at um one Sam Houston state.
Speaker 1:while you're there you're working for Walker County, so working in the jail, or started off in the jail working graveyard shift Um. Then I went to uh uh one summer. They put me through a academy and um at 8am and then I came back and I was uh on patrol for about two years, I guess, before I graduated. Um, when uh I walked into um this interview for the uh the sheriff, uh for the position of a deputy, uh, you know, I told him, I said hey, I said you've got me until I graduate. Once I graduate, this is my goal, this is what I want to do, you know and you knew at that point you wanted to go, dps.
Speaker 2:I knew.
Speaker 1:I wanted to go DPS. I was kind of floundering as to where I wanted to go, what I wanted to do. I knew it was going to be in law enforcement and I ran into uh Barry Kaver, which was the ranger at that time, was the uh, uh ranger sergeant there in in Huntsville and they were working a tremendous case. I mean, I remember the case to this day and I was being held over from graveyard to the day shift just for a couple of hours because somebody in the jail was coming in late. So I was a jailer. They're coming down the hallway as a sheriff and chief deputy and a couple of detectives in the ranger and they're coming down the hallway to for an interview or whatever they were going to do.
Speaker 1:Of course I'm a graveyard shift jailer, so you know you don't get any lower on the bottom of the rung than what I am. So you know I hit the wall and allowed them to pass. You know, uh, as it was passing through and I got the nods and the hellos as it passed, barry Kaver stopped, turned around, stuck his hand at me and said I haven't met you yet. You know I'm. You know this is a Texas ranger in the middle of a case and I'm a jailer, you know, graveyard shift jailer at that. And uh, so we shook hands and of course, like I say, I was shooting full time as well. So when we shook hands, he goes do you work for a living, my hands?
Speaker 1:were rough, you know, I thought I was a hard shooter and stuff. And well, about six months later I happened to run into him again. No one else was around and just him, and I just bumped into each other and he said John Vance the horse, or how you do it. Of course he remembers names. You know. Association, I wish I could do that. You know what I mean, steve, oh, yeah, yeah. And so he, he was able to catch that and and, and just the mere fact that he took the time to visit with me, you know when I was, I was nobody, you know, and I, you know my. Again, going back to my father, my father had a higher respect for a person in janitorial service working in a large building than the CEO, because if that guy did his job excellent, you never saw him, you never knew it, you never heard about it, never heard about it. Let him mess up one time. You know you're going to know it yeah, uh, but.
Speaker 1:but he did a great job with uh. It was humble and, and you know, didn't want to uh the claim fame, you know and it seems so insignificant, but the effect it had on you.
Speaker 3:I was 19, 20 years old, working at the jail in Plano and I can tell you to this day, the detectives and the cops that would come in there and treated me like I was one of them checked on me, asked me how I was doing, and the guys that came in and treated me like I was a sex vendor you know, you're just a dumb little jailer and I can tell you to this day the people that were really, really good to me, it wasn't that they went out of their way, they just treated me good. They didn't treat me like you're some shut up, you dumb 20 year old.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you're right. I remember that being in that jail, remember who comes through? Um, uh, another gentleman came through and I and I don't know his name, but he was a U S Marshall. He was coming to pick up someone and, uh, he walked in and just Cool, you know, cool, where he's a visit. Talk, you know, call me by name. Once he found my name and asked for my assistance on different things and it's treated me like Like a human.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like what? Oh well, like this, like, I guess, one of the guys, which goes back to where I was telling him this and it's not. It's going to be hard to say this, I guess, but Some professions and some departments have that, you know, stigma and they have that perception and they have that, you know, uh, you being a ranger, when you read one of your DPS sardine, DPS itself except kind of has that that mentality, at least that troopers are kind of hard to get past, peel that that one layer off. Oh yeah, it's one thing I've always loved about you. You've always been so humble and so approachable and that's one thing I was telling him.
Speaker 2:I was like man, this is a, this is a cops ranger, this is a cops cop. Oh, wow, Well, and I'm not, and I'm not just blowing smoke, John, that you and Josh Jenkins comes to mind when I talk about stuff like that. That's one thing I've always loved about you is, even when you made Ranger, you still would stop hey, how are you doing? You know, and, uh, you know, I just I've always told him that and I always had a lot of respect for it, but it goes back to where where you were up at and how and how you were raised, so it's pretty neat.
Speaker 3:So you said working in the jail you were kind of floundering. What was it? That kind of made you laser in on DPS, Was it?
Speaker 1:Well, whenever I, after that chance meeting um with a Barry Caver, and um, you know the the, the fact that he impressed me as much as I said, well, what does it take for me to get there? You know how do I get from here to there, what, what, what is my steps? And I started researching it. And that's whenever I knew that I wanted to go to DPS, because eventually I wanted to go to the Rangers. That was the whole purpose for DPS.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so I, like I say I made my um, uh, statement to the sheriff. You know, I said I, I'm, I want to give you, I'm going to give you 110%, I'm going to be your guy. But then I graduated and whenever DPS accepts me, I'll turn him into weeks that you don't have me for the rest of your career. You got me for this timeframe. Afterwards, you know, a couple of years later, after you know I was a, I was a trooper. At that point he came back to me and he goes, man, he says you know, it kind of made me mad. You know, like I, you don't want my job. But then I got thinking with dirt, at least I know where I stand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's you know and he knew when I was when I was, when I was, when I was, you know that was you know. So, anyway, uh was accepted to DPS Academy. What year was that? Um, 95, 895 was the Academy I went through. And so back then, uh, if you were living in East Texas whenever you came out of the Academy, we're sending you to West Texas, you know, we're seeing you as far away from you, know home, as possible.
Speaker 2:You know why DPS did that? Or is it just because the they didn't want you to be around in hometown, or I?
Speaker 1:think that I think really what they wanted was, um, not to have that hometown influence. You know, uh, learn, learn to that neutral party type, mentality. Yeah, I really think that's it. Yeah, yeah, I just said yes, sir.
Speaker 3:We have a lot of young listeners and we have some explorers that right in.
Speaker 3:I think it's cool that at 19 or 20, you didn't have a short term goal. You already knew my end goals be a ranger. You weren't even looking like well in two years maybe I'd be a sergeant, or maybe you knew you had a goal of 10 or 12 years. I heard along and take the serving DPS to end up in a ranger. I think that's super important. Yep Is, if you're going to map out a short term goal, be thinking about what the long term one is, because people are normally pretty short-sighted and we don't hear that often on the show. That at 19 or 20 or whatever it was, you knew I'm not in this for the tomorrow game. I'm in this, I'm going to end up here. That's pretty impressive because you don't hear it a lot Most 20 year olds. When I was 20, all I was thinking about was tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Where am I going to get some courage to lie down? Yes, that's right. Where's tomorrow at Yep. You know, another thing kind of a little bit of wisdom is giving to me I'd love to pass on was that. You know, keep your mouth shut. We had a lot of guys that I'm going to be a ranger. Well, there's a lot of steps to get there, you know. No, I want to be the best. I want to be the best trooper, you know, I want to be the best high-willed patrol sergeant. Then I want to be the best ranger. You know, and I know I have to get past this goal in order to, you know, to achieve this goal. And so let me be the best. Where I'm at work right now.
Speaker 3:Solid advice. Yep, like showing up to boot camp with a Marine tattoo already on. Absolutely. Slow your roll there, Pilgrim yeah.
Speaker 1:You got to make it through past me first. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So A-95. A-95. What was the academy back then Six months, and you all live on site, right?
Speaker 1:Yes, we had the weekends off, providing you didn't screw up. Yeah, fortunately, I was able to have every weekend off. That's a plus.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I've learned real quick. You know, of course I wasn't in the military, so it's a paramilitaristic type boot camp, so I learned real quick everything. When you're in line, you know so do exactly what the guy in front of you is doing. If he screws up, there's somebody behind you doing the very same thing you're doing. So you're going to have to figure it out, or you're going to screw up too, and it's going to cause that guy to screw up. So, yeah, but it was, it was. It was really interesting going through that and what it developed was like anything else. It developed some brotherhood and upon graduating, I mean you've got, you know, we were scattered the four corners of state of Texas, so you know you had somebody somewhere.
Speaker 2:Well, I always like to ask about I've asked Josh the same thing but whenever you went to the academy and a lot of the Rangers they were cops. Cops were deputies. I don't know why that is, before they were trippers, but we're starting to see that a lot now. But what was it like to be a cop and then go through DPS's academy and learn the DPS way that you find? Was it a difficult transition or was that you know.
Speaker 2:Hard for you to get over that, Because we always been told and I just like my teach my kids. I would rather than not know something, a subject, and then me teach them that way, versus them know how to do it beforehand and we have to correct it.
Speaker 3:Bringing your bad habit yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:Exactly, it's firearms. You know firearms 101. I hope you, when you come in you don't know anything. Yeah, let me show you what I've been taught is the correct way and that you know. That way you're shooting. You don't bring in all the old bad habits. When I started the academy again, the sound advice that I was given from a trooper you know there at the Huntsville keep your mouth shut, stay in the middle of the pack. It's yes or no, sir. Even if it offends you, it's yes or no, sir. You know, you just got to make it through the six months. You know it's a building process. So when I got in again with with all of this vast knowledge of two years will give you as a place.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:I was almost ready for graduate school. I got in and I get taught this you know topic and I ended up most of the time I was like, oh shit, you know I didn't realize that because it wasn't one of these hey, here's the law, and then we move on. Here's the law. This is the reason why this is the law, this is what made the law. This is why this has taken place. You know, and it you know that eventually the subject to change, but at least you know now you know why you're enforcing what you're foundation foundation behind it.
Speaker 1:So that was very interesting and, of course, all the driving, the shooting, the fighting that you know everything we did in there.
Speaker 3:you know it was a y'all still did some smokey rounds and some boxing back then, and there was a.
Speaker 1:there was a, an individual that didn't make it through the academy but he was, I would say, bullying when it got into the, the fighting portion. You know, it's kind of a pick, a partner deal. So I'd grab you and say, hey, we're going to partner up, and then you and I'd be off the side. So I'm like, hey, man, take it easy on my left shoulder, and you know, or what you know brother in law brother in law.
Speaker 1:You know we're going to, we're going to, we're going to do it. But let's just say, or this on the Super Bowl, we're all in the same family and this individual picked the weakest one and was just pushing over him, you know, and of course we were doing what we could to try to solve that problem without our counselors being made aware. And, yeah, we were failing. But counselors come in and said no, no, no, boys, just leave it on. That, that's okay, Stand up, Are you okay? Okay, Well, yeah, don't do that, no more.
Speaker 1:Where they were screaming at us before, you know, and now we've getting this kind of gentler, you know, and that's that reverse psychology, Like, oh heck, you know, so fighting, it was time to fight. You know, they'd call your name, they'd call my name and I'd be sitting up over here and you'd be sitting up over there and we'd get together and you know we're friends, you know, but there we go. You know we've got a fight and they called his name and then they go okay, I need you, you, you, you and you suit up. I was like, oh shit.
Speaker 1:And it was one on one and then they'd stop and I go you look like you're getting winded here. We step side next one up, you know, and he's like I'm getting winded too, I don't care. By the time it was over with, he said if you'll just slide that piece of paper in front of me that I need to sign to exit this place, I will, and he was gone so there you go.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, that's awesome. So where'd you end up for the Academy with West Texas? Where? What town?
Speaker 1:So about? Well, right before, right as I started the Academy, like I say, six months long, we had a mass retirement in DPS, you know, it's that 20 year cycle, they, you know. And so we had this huge mass retirement which created a mass promotional, you know, process and overnight, huntsville became a demand station. They needed, they needed to fill bodies at Huntsville. Again, keep my mouth shut and sit on the corner, sit over in the corner and buy them whenever it comes time for us to. You know our dream, she's what they always call it when would you like to go? We're going to send you here, but where would you like to go? We'd like for you to feel good about yourself, you know. And so I put Huntsville region region two. And when, when time came for the captains to come in and sign this, I got called to go to region two, you know, I thought, oh man, you know to talk to that screwed up.
Speaker 3:Keep your mouth shut.
Speaker 1:Keep your mouth shut, yeah, stay in the middle of the pack, and so I got in there and they said so, captain, which is Bob Martin, which was, he was a troopers captain.
Speaker 2:I've heard that from so many people.
Speaker 1:All he had to do was mention and the world would launch. You know, I mean, he was just we would go to. You know, we'd look where they say charge hell with a bucket of water, yeah, we'd do it for him. He, he said, look, I won't. You know, treat y'all like grown men and women. You know I have these openings. Who wants this position? You know who wants this open? Who wants someone? Well, it comes to Huntsville and me and a another person. I had both raised our hand for this one position is open.
Speaker 1:You know suit up. And so he pulled the names and he looked and he goes. Okay, he said he called that individual and he said you've been assigned to Iran, John, you've got Huntsville. Yeah, Well, what I didn't know is that that particular person was doing some. Now that in the background and the council just caught word of that and like oh you, you think you're going where you want to go. Okay, Well, oh, wow, yeah, the lesson life keep mouth shut, Keep you know. So anyway, I was able to fortune the bus code, able to come back. Kathy had one more year, a little over a year I think left in school and college there. So that's where we had met. Actually we, we met the first Baptist church. Yeah, I was with my girlfriend at the time when we met, but I mean yeah, that's where we met.
Speaker 3:So how many? How many started your Academy? How many graduated?
Speaker 1:We started. I'm going to get this wrong. We started with 180, like 180, we graduated 106.
Speaker 4:I always thought that was.
Speaker 1:I thought it was interesting. We graduated I mean, we, they, they first day of the Academy. Everybody gets a number. You know, depending on your, it's all by alphabetical order. But I ended up with being a V. Yeah, I'm number 109. And we graduated 106 and I'm number 109. So it always looks like I. I just barely made it.
Speaker 1:No, but, but we graduated 106 out of the Academy and when we have a self appointed class historian and every time one of us retired, you know he would put out on our little Facebook group you know talking about. Well, we were now down to so many, so many, and we're down to like 20 or 21. That's still in the still working for DPS now out of 106. So yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 3:I didn't mean to sidetrack from your wife and your girlfriend meeting at church.
Speaker 1:It was a great story too yeah. Cut that right there. I'm glad you did cut in.
Speaker 2:So you? So you went to Huntsville. Kathy's got a year left in college. How long you staying Huntsville and what point did you get to promote? I mean, there was a kind of a mass exit at 20, right when you graduated. But how did that look out? Did the sheriff appreciate having you back?
Speaker 1:Well, he was, uh, he's. When I did see him.
Speaker 1:You know, come in, wear my bright, shiny uniform, you know walk in, he goes you're just another deputy to me, baby, he's, I got you back. He said. If they call you on the radio and say there's a cow out and they call you, just know I'm sending you. Sorry, yes, sir, I keep mouth shut. Whatever, well, whatever you need, sir, uh, let's see um in 2001,. Yeah, 2001,. I've got, I've got my historian over here because I get my dates right. Uh, we promoted to um, and I say we, but that's a team effort.
Speaker 1:We promoted to um Marshall as a highway patrol sergeant. So, uh, typical DPS fashion. Um, uh, she's, she's at work. We're in Huntsville, she's at work and I'm working night shift. So you know, um, it's daytime and I'm piddling in my shop.
Speaker 1:Telephone calls, it's a 512 area code and we've already went through this whole selection process. You're waiting on that phone call. You know, if you don't get a phone call in the Back, then the teletype. When the teletype came out, that's when you know who made it. But if your telephone call, I mean if your telephone rings, then you know congratulations, you made it.
Speaker 1:Some major. You know from Austin, who I did not know, never will know. You know, Is the one who called me and he said congratulations, you know you're. You know Howard Trose, origin he's. You got a Choice of two duty stations. I said yes, sir. He said you valedict, and Marshall Said yes, sir. I said okay. I said well. I said generally I don't make a life altering decision like this with least contact with my wife. You know he said Pick it, pick it. Now I'm like oh my god. I said well, sir. I said I do not know where Marshall Texas is, but I didn't know where you valedict is I'll take Marshall. Nothing ill of you, valedict, I'm just what in the South Texas boy, I'm an East Texas boy. So we moved to Marshall and we were there seven years. January of 08 is when I promoted to and left Marshall went to the self springs.
Speaker 3:Wow, how long. How long is a trooper for you, mate, sergeant? I was five, six years, I guess and then how long is it sergeant for picking?
Speaker 1:up right at six years as well.
Speaker 2:So good, good, good. Follow through with the years minutes to say six and six.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so I you know it's kind of I Started, of course, my again. I knew where my goal was and I knew that I was eligible and and so, with prior law enforcement experience, I knew at six years I'd be eligible for the test, to start taking the test for Ranger. And I did, didn't stand in the snowballs chance, you know, whenever I took that test. But you know I wanted it, I want to take that test and we tested several times and the Well, I'll back up and say this One of the times I did make it, you know, very confident, very sure of myself. You know, going through the oral board, and they asked me a question about line to a suspect, you know, in an interview, well, I just completed a very large investigation involving truth and honesty and it was a employee type investigation and Anyway, so I'm sitting there at the scared to death, I'm nervous, I'm, you know, I'm gonna say the right thing, you know. And they asked me this question, you know, and and so I go, you know I have no reason to lie to, I'll tell them the truth and, by God, you know, and I gave them this party line.
Speaker 1:It was one of the first questions. So they're set up interviews. You know the men all the way around. There's two Ranger captains sitting ones, the the sitting chair, and then the other one is going to be the next chair on the next board. That's kind of how they rotated through. And, being a good Ranger over there, he threw me a lifeline. I didn't swat at it and so he said thank you and moved me to the next guy and the next guy said well, before I asked my two questions, I'd like to go back to this first question. I thought, oh shit.
Speaker 2:I'm done, you know.
Speaker 1:It's the way it went all the way around and they thanked me for my time and pat me on the back, sent me out the door, you know, and I was about. It was here in Austin. I was about 10 miles out of town. My phone rings and it's the Ranger that that was over, marshall Ronnie Griffith at the time.
Speaker 1:There's a mountain of a man, oh huge man and he said are you done with your interview boy, yeah, remember how Ronnie was. And I said uh, yes, sir, yes, sir. He said how did you do? And I said well, I think you know I did. All right, I stumbled and he goes. Hey, you stupid SOB. He said you can lie to a crook and I went Within the ten minutes it took me to get in my car, start driving home.
Speaker 1:He'd already gotten word from the board what I had did. So, okay, all right. So the next time I went to the board, the one I made it on, I'm sitting there and the captain, who is now the chair, who was the assistant on this, the previous board, I walk in, sit down and they thanked me for my time and appreciate you know the little formalities. And he says Before we get started, I'd like to ask a question. Well, all of them start grinning. I'm like. I said yes, sir, and he said Do you find any reason why you'd want to lie to a crook? I said, sir, I'd lie that son of a buck in a heart.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much. Let's go have a good day. Yeah, that's awesome. So, for those that don't know, you were the sergeant Marshall for many years and you had a. You had a. In my opinion, you had a pretty your crew there. You had the north. You were up, you were on the north zone, right you had, which covers Marion County and then the half of Harrison.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir.
Speaker 2:And then at that point then you transition over to sulfur Springs. I know, yeah, how was so? You're, you're, you don't? You've never been a sulfur Springs. As far as live there and kind of a part of that, that community, what's it like moving to the town? And, and as I always joke around with the Rangers that I've worked with in East Texas About, I mean you, there's not a Ranger Academy. Hmm, you don't sprinkle Ranger dust on it and then you just automatically know all this stuff. But but in all, in hindsight, when you show up, you're new to the area, so they just think, oh, we got a Ranger. You know this kind of knows how to investigate.
Speaker 2:He's got it all figured out. So if you want to kind of explain just how that process works and how I mean I mean you really can't admit your faults because you're a Texas Ranger, I mean let's call it what it is, yeah, and so you already kind of held it at pedestals. So what does that feel like when you're like oh shit.
Speaker 1:No, walking in. I've got it here. Remind me because I'll get the sidetrack. But I want to talk about the move in our when we got there as well. But so the December up till up till December the 31st, I had the highway patrol phone, you know, and back then your phone number didn't go with you, you know. You just didn't keep your phone. You know that. That turned over to the next highway patrol sergeant, you know that sort of thing, and my phone was ringing 24-7,. You know, as a highway patrol sergeant, you know, cuz, what happened. It took off in the morning while I was fat, dumbing, happy, sleeping in bed. What happened on the road at two o'clock in the morning? If I don't fix that problem before 8 am, it's my fault. Yeah, you know, it's not his fault, it's my fault. It stops with me. So Turn that phone over, pick up the Ranger phone, which happened to be a brand new phone. So no one had that number and I kept checking. It was a flip phone. I kept checking the phone because thinking that was a battery.
Speaker 3:Good, you know, cuz it's not ringing, it's Ranger stuff.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I got this mate and I had a guy call him from, from one of my counties that I haven't even gotten there yet, okay at this point. And phone rings. He was hey, you're getting the new Rangers. Yes, he goes, okay, okay, running into a problem, this is what I got and it's one of our detectives, and so he's, and he lays out this Problem and he's lays out how he feels like it needs to be handled. He's what do you think? I go? Sure, yeah, would you normally handle that way? Yeah, yeah, sounds good to me. You know I'm phoned up, you know I did my Ranger stuff right, and it wasn't until several months later, till, you know, I got to where I knew everybody and everything, and this guy walks up, he goes, man, he's have some sound advice, man, I certainly appreciate it. It was good to have you there. I was like fella, I didn't have a clue, I was just going with the flow, you said. You said that sounded good. That sounded good to me too, you know. But anyway, that's my so, so in.
Speaker 3:Garland in 1999 I made detective in the lieutenant that was that I ended up going work for at the time as a patrolman. You had to call and ask questions. You had to call and ask. You had to call ask questions all the time this patrol lieutenant. He had no use for me because I was a dumb patrolman, Mm-hmm. So I get made a detective.
Speaker 1:Over night, yeah your detective.
Speaker 3:So I got to see ID my very first day and they said hey, somebody's got to be on call for property crimes. I'm like, oh, I'm brand new detective, I think me, me, me. So of course all the old heads are like, yeah, you can have my over, my call out.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:So I get home it's like nine o'clock at night phone, there exists a lieutenant what's my old patrol lieutenant who thought I was the dumbest moron ever lived. Hey, uh, you there. You there, right near, said yes, sir, let me tell you what we got. It's okay, stolen 18 Wheeler from Garland, recovered in Dallas the tractors at one location with two guys and custody Trailer's in another location with stolen goods. They got to and custody selling all the stuff out the back. Dpd's over there, dsos over there they have five and custody two locations. What do you, what do you want me to do?
Speaker 4:Oh, You're asking me now I was like 24 hours ago, I was the dumbest moron you've ever met.
Speaker 3:What do you want to do on this detective? I was like Can't call you back, just a minute.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I call another detective. Give me just a second.
Speaker 3:I call another detective but I get off fun. I told I was like Wasn't that interesting? Because yesterday I had to ask to go to the bathroom because I was too dumb to go bathroom by myself. And now he's calling wanting, yeah me to tell him how to handle a situation. I'm like that's awesome in 24 hours. Nothing's changed. There's, there's. I'm still the same ugly dude I was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm walking down the hall when I finally get to Huntsville and I'm walking down the sheriff's Sheriff's department's hallway there and this Detective, which is now the sheriff there, louis Tatum great guy, he, he was a detective at that point. He steps out and he goes you're the new Ranger. I mean my, my leather squeaks when I'm walking.
Speaker 1:That's how new I am right now. Yes, sir, he's. Hey, come here, come here and put me in the Office room with him about that time and bring an inmate in, set him down. And he said. I said we need me to do, you just sit there, that's okay. And so this is going. Yeah, he goes. Look, he's just going a little too far now. He says we've got the Ranger involved now.
Speaker 4:He's I didn't want the.
Speaker 1:Ranger involved, but he's here now and so I'm over taking notes.
Speaker 1:You know, make or yeah, I'm doodling what I'm doing, but it looks really good, and so we're going down that line, or he's going down that line, excuse me, and it's uh, it's uh, it was a Petaphylus, what it was? Young, young man petaphylin, younger children, and About halfway through the line, about the whole line, to a crook, you know, he goes into that whole spill of you know. Well, be honest with you, I saw a picture of her and she's pretty hot, for for a 13 year old, I mean, she's, she's pretty hot, you know. And that guy goes oh yeah, you know, he's falling in, you know, and and ends up giving us everything. But about halfway through that, I've got this detective who I don't know and I'm brand new, and I know that I supposed to be doing something and he's talking about how good looking this 13 year old child is. I start taking notes on him.
Speaker 2:What is going on here?
Speaker 1:Who am I working here? Both of them are one you know, but but you're a little too convincingly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that was my uh indoctrination to it and I was told Um, uh, real quick he said find a solid investigator, I don't care what agency he's with, find a solid one, that man that loves to work and you know, and that it wants to, has a burning desire to solve the crime. Find that guy and work with him. We're going to send you to more schools and you'll ever possibly imagine going to, but starting off, you know, work hard with, with, with that guy, and that's what it is. And it was several guys, but Lewis was one of them.
Speaker 2:So that's awesome tune in next week for part two.
Speaker 1:Of all of the officer involved shootings that I've been a part of one time um, it didn't go good for the officer. Um, and and I, I have a spill. I sit down and I talked to the grand jury. I said I said this is going to take. I said You're used to somebody walking in giving you a case and walk out. I said I need to give you a little bit of background, a little bit of understanding, and I explained to them how we, how we operate, what we do. And then I explained to them. I said you're going to hear Language in here. You know, uh, it could, most of 99% of the time you're going to hear language in in these uh, uh videos. You've got to put yourself in that officer's Standpoint and I'll bring it back to them. Say, hey, these, these are family men.
Speaker 1:Yeah you know they have, they're, they're standing on the right side, they're, they're withholding romans chapter 13. I mean, they're doing what they're supposed to be doing, you know.
