Meet the man who keeps Austin safe: the newly-elected Austin Police Association President, Michael Bullock. Fresh into his position, he navigates the tumultuous intersection of politics and law enforcement, striving for unity in a divided city and navigating through challenging times with the death of an APA member. We tackle the urgent need for change within the justice system, explore the destructive impact of 'woke culture' on community safety, and discuss ways of addressing staffing shortages within the Austin PD. Hear directly from those who face the daily 'circus' yet continue to protect and serve.
email us at- bluegrit@tmpa.org
Meet the man who keeps Austin safe: the newly-elected Austin Police Association President, Michael Bullock. Fresh into his position, he navigates the tumultuous intersection of politics and law enforcement, striving for unity in a divided city and navigating through challenging times with the death of an APA member. We tackle the urgent need for change within the justice system, explore the destructive impact of 'woke culture' on community safety, and discuss ways of addressing staffing shortages within the Austin PD. Hear directly from those who face the daily 'circus' yet continue to protect and serve.
email us at- bluegrit@tmpa.org
The moment I stepped off a bus, we got hit with water bottles, rocks, urine. We didn't even know what we did and we had city council members going out there and effectively agreeing with activists, joining them, marching with them, doing all this other kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:The amount of respect I have for you guys, man, I can't fathom.
Speaker 1:The amount of pride I have in this department is after we go.
Speaker 2:Lugert podcast. We were back this week. Uh, clint McNeary, your co-host, and Tyler Owen Tio, what's up? Oh man, how was your drive down this morning? It was good, it was really smooth, like three hours on the dot, no traffic. It was beautiful.
Speaker 3:That the traffic situation in Waco. Every time we have somebody coming from the north part of Texas, they're just amazed at Waco's traffic situation. I guess and I wasn't privy to that because I wasn't coming down there as often, was it that?
Speaker 2:bad. The first 10 years I worked here, waco was under construction. For 10 years it was freaking horrible. It was a four hour drive, not a three hour drive.
Speaker 3:Wow, well, I've never uh took me about an hour and a half hour and 45 minutes to get here from Wembley, which is probably like 45 miles. So it was kind of a pain but worth the uh, worth living out there. Who got on man? We have got the Austin newly elected Austin police association president, michael Bullock. Yes, sir.
Speaker 1:Walk him in. Man Appreciate you stopping by.
Speaker 3:Uh, this is probably your area of that, that you patrol, and uh, man, you guys have been busy.
Speaker 1:It's been a very busy uh month, two months six years almost. It seems like it's just been nonstop around this place, yeah.
Speaker 3:When I got your contact information it was uh, it was shortly after uh, the SWAT operator with Austin police had had died in line of duty and you and I were talking. I was blown away. You were elected or took office, I guess, on a Wednesday.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was on the night. Yeah, and then immediately after that.
Speaker 3:We're going to, we're going to dive off into that and kind of your, your, your newly elected position and you got, you got thrown to the fire. But I want to tell you, on the half of TNPA, man, you've handled it like a champ.
Speaker 3:Uh, and I found out later on this year you were a PIO with Austin PD makes completely sense, because I was still on the wife the other day when I saw you on camera I was like man, this guy's got his shit together, so hats off to you for handling everything the way you've done. Uh, me and Clint were talking about that the other day and it's a challenge because you get thrown to the fire so quickly, and you damn sure did yeah Last couple of weeks.
Speaker 1:So hats off to you, brother.
Speaker 2:Well, I appreciate that not how any of us want to start this kind of a game but, it's also a good reminder is why we're doing absolutely, so absolutely, and not just the El Presidente, but the 2020 officer of the year for APD.
Speaker 3:That's right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, and sometimes anybody can win something.
Speaker 2:Hey, before we dive off. Uh, we hired Tio a couple of years ago and he jogs every morning at five and we stay at the hotel right behind here, god, he wasn't feeling good. I'm familiar with APD with. Austin crime.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So tell me about your morning job. So for the listeners out there, watchers, uh, and those that know me, I'm not going to say, I'm going to just go and say I'm not the smartest sometimes and uh, and I am pretty and I got a voice for radio, so our face for radio, so, uh, you know, I was living in a bubble, I was living in Jefferson there's no crime there no, uh, I typically ran, I was a part of like a criminal apprehension type unit and and and and Marshall PD, and so we had a. I had an abundant amount of like place t-shirts, right. So I'm thinking and those who work out and run, you have this nasty, stinky, I don't give a damn what washing machine, what detergent you use, you can't get that, that nasty ass smell out of these shirts. So, long story short, I come down to TNPA.
Speaker 3:It was my first time coming down for the peace office from more than Austin. Mm-hmm, these section behind the hotel we're living at, or the double tree, I'm not what, I'm sure what sector that is and I'm jogging and you start noticing, okay, there's bars on the window, there's razor wires, probably not good. I've got a police t-shirt on, everything's fine, and one of your guys pull up. And I'm probably a mile into this run and he pulls up and, I quote, he said what in the hell are you doing back here? And I was like, um, I'm jogging, I'm like force, go up.
Speaker 3:And he said back here and I was like yeah, and he said I'll tell you, I like to run.
Speaker 1:I like to run.
Speaker 3:So he said I'll tell you what you're going to. You're going to get your big ass in the backseat of my car and and you need to get out of here. Do you realize where you're at? And I said, yeah, I'm in Austin and he was like no no, you're not.
Speaker 3:And so I got in the backseat. What? What I was laughing about is that I didn't hadn't met a lot of the board of directors, and so he he caught on what was going on and told him I worked for TNPA, was down here, lived in little bubble of East Texas, and so, as he pulled up, as coincidental as it is, several board of directors were walking outside of the hotel and I'm in the backseat of the car. Yes, and I'm like I swear God, this is not what happened. So, yeah, that was my first. Can't even plan this stuff.
Speaker 2:No man.
Speaker 3:And so, um, after some explanation, he got a kick out of it, I got a kick out of it, but but you know, God almighty, there is a dangerous part behind TNPA. Is little yeah.
Speaker 1:You're. You're in the heart of IDA sector. Ida sector is probably the deadliest sector in the city is where we have some of the most homicides, so that's great you picked primo areas to run. I did, I did. Well, what was funny is yeah, I was. I was like throwing the do so up to everybody.
Speaker 3:They were real friendly. They got invited in for some tacos and glad I didn't go you know, I never know what might have happened, no shit.
Speaker 3:But, uh, man, hats off to you guys that have to work. Uh, these areas of Austin, uh, man, it's just crazy. Uh, it's just like a rather urban area, but it's got the Austin twist right. Keep Austin weird, it's not dangerous. That's kind of a phrase that we've kind of patent right here. But anyway, well, man, we like to start the podcast off by just saying man, who the hell is Michael Bullock? Where'd you grow up at? How'd you get in law enforcement? So let's start off with there when, where, uh, what area of Texas you grew up in, or if it even was Texas it was Austin, it was.
Speaker 1:I grew up here in Austin. I'm one of the few, but I grew up in Austin, grew up on the north side of town and then, uh, little later on in life, I had a brief stint where I moved out to East Texas and then I uh what town was that?
Speaker 3:That was Avenger, the blue man town, Marion County, Marion Cass County, 10 miles from where I was living at the time. But I started with TNPA.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I lived in uh, I lived in Avenger for just a little bit and then came back and I've lived in South Austin for quite a while now.
Speaker 3:Well, you're, uh, and during our conversations, uh, you told me that you were, you were, was that your time? And when you live in Avenger that you worked for some political figures.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I kind of got into uh it's, it's a weird path to law enforcement that I had. But prior to coming here I worked for the legislature. So I worked for two different state legislators and then I wound up working for a uh like a statewide organization handling all their Senate policy before I came over to law enforcement side. So when I was working in politics I was helping one of the guys that I was working for on his campaign and he represented that area out in Greg and Upsher County and he was running for a Senate seat, so I was living in the area that he was kind of campaigning in. You know part of the political duties that you get when you're working around the Capitol. So it was a good time. I love being out in Avenger.
Speaker 3:You know it's interesting. We were just talking about the sheriff's statement and Clint uh, and we're going to kind of, I guess, dive off into a rabbit hole a little bit. Uh, tnpa puts out an in service magazine. It's quarterly, uh, just like a lot of other associations, but this next edition is going to be politics and policing is going to be a mixture, a lot of local social. We had a Charles DeVall on a couple of episodes ago and the topic of that podcast was how important politics play and to a association leadership. Yeah, what better person, michael Bullock, could talk about that and talk about kind of uh, that gives you a good backing. I think it gives you a damn good platform to kind of segue or to push off of as the Austin place association president. But how did how, how was it viewed in your job then with with politics Cause you were behind the scenes and how has that benefited you now?
Speaker 1:I'd say it's, uh, it's about the best background you can come from, honestly, yeah, so, especially in a town like Austin, this is one of the most political cities you'll find in the state yeah, and so, trying to navigate that process to where we can get something done for the officers here and, on behalf of our association and, hopefully, the city, I know how the process works, knowing how to build relationships, knowing how networking, you know, goes on and knowing how to get policy changed and past. And you know, not just at a city level but also on a state level. Right, we got the capital here, we're the luckiest ones. Right, we can walk down the street and we're at the capital. So knowing how all of that works makes you you know it. It at least equips you to where you're much more prepared to handle a lot of what's going to come your way and a lot of the political wins that change all the time around this place.
Speaker 2:So it gives you an incredible foundation right from the right from the start, because as a young cop, you know we hear all the time. Well, I don't know why you're working with them because they're a Democrat, or I don't know why you're working with them because they're Republican or I don't know why you're working with them because they're liberal.
Speaker 2:I don't know why you work with them because they're independent, or whatever title you want to put on it. And the fact of the matter and what you learned before all of us did. Dude, if you can't figure out how to navigate and work through that, you're never going to get anything accomplished, because if you pigeonhole yourself into one group, you're not going to accomplish anything and it doesn't mean you have to be beer drinking friends or go hang out or a personal you know personally loyal friends to them.
Speaker 2:But if you can understand relationships and network and how to leverage like Reagan, you know, was always reached across the aisle and what a great foundation to start your career with, cause it took me I'm 51 and still trying to figure out. You know how important that networking and it's a great foundation to start from.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and I mean kind of, like you just mentioned, it's it doesn't matter. And this in one aspect. This is easier. This level of politics for me is easier now than being at the Capitol, because when you're at the Capitol you have to be an expert in everything right Transportation, education, housing, you name it, you got to. You have to be educated on all of the topics so that way you can, you know, get a member to vote the way they want to vote.
Speaker 1:Um, but in this role, only thing I care about are my cops. Only thing I care about is law enforcement. So I really, I really don't care. Like you said, I don't give a shit if you're a Republican, a Democrat, a liberal, a conservative, it doesn't matter to me. Are you on our side? If you are going to help us improve public safety and the working conditions and pay benefits, all that of the officers I represent, I'll work with you. I don't care about anything else. That is the only thing I have to focus on. So in that aspect it's a little easier because I can ignore all the political affiliations. It just doesn't matter to me. I have one goal and I get to focus on that.
Speaker 2:And that's super important for cops to understand is is when you see, you know that we're having to communicate in network. It's to accomplish a mission. It's not because we're, you know, in bed or that we've declared that we're only affiliated with one side. It's to accomplish a mission. And it's just like in police work you have several plans and you got to figure out what plan that is to navigate to accomplish the mission, or execute the warrant or get the person in custody, and it's a means to an end is how we've got to accomplish that.
Speaker 2:So, politics, you graduate from high school Avenger or down here, Down here.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I went to. I went to high school down here. It was a, you know, private school. I grew up on the North side, which is, you know, a little little nicer part of town. So all my family's here, all my family's here, so all my family still lives in the Austin area for the most part. Some extended family still is up in the panhandle, up around Lubbock but, and then some in Colorado, but other than that, you know, grew up here in Austin, went to high school here in Austin. I actually, when I started college, I went to a engineering school out in East Texas and Longview, which is where I met David Simpson, one of the guys that I worked for for the first time.
Speaker 3:Let's turn on the university.
Speaker 1:Yep, I went there. So went there, started my degree in aeronautical engineering. Dang yeah, did it for about a year and a half, got my pilot's license.
Speaker 3:So those that don't know what that is, explain what an aeronautical license is, or a license.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the well. The aeronautical engineering is where, like, basically you're, you're building, designing fixing planes, you can fly them, you can do like it's everything, Like I did classes on how design, how to design parts of a jet engine.
Speaker 3:That wasn't just for the listeners, that was for me. I wanted to point that out. I nodded like I knew it. I was like, oh shit, what the hell is this, can you tell me?
Speaker 2:I mean, tell them yeah.
Speaker 1:So I. So that was what I started in initially. And then, after I got my private pilots license for a fixed wing, I decided man, this, this whole college thing like this, this sucks. I think I'm going to go back to Austin and go to work. So I came back to Austin and I started working in politics you know I had already done in high school and like there's internship programs and all the other kind of stuff at the Capitol.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I was already in turning with the state rep and after I went to college they kind of kept me on and still did some stuff for them, and then when I came back to Austin I just started to go work full time for him. So that was kind of how I was. Like you know what, aeronautical engineering, flying, how I go do politics? That sounds easier. And so I got into politics here and I just never, I just never left, and so I wound up doing campaign work and then I was a legislative director Brief stint is like a chief of staff and then a Senate policy director.
Speaker 3:And for those, those that don't know, unless you're at the Capitol a lot or have been at the Capitol for some kind of political situation, and I'm not saying this, it happens with every state rep or every senator, but the heart of what goes on in every single office goes to the chief of staff. Oh, chief of staffs are the heart of the majority of officers at that Capitol. So, you care, that's a huge. How old were you then? Oh?
Speaker 1:God, I would have been about 23.
Speaker 3:That's. That is significant. I mean, that's a lot of weight to carry behind a 23 year old, right. So I just wanted to, you know, I guess, identify that because that's a huge, that's a huge job.
Speaker 1:Well, the good news is I was young and dumb, so it didn't matter.
Speaker 3:I didn't know any different. I said you want to do this, sure, I don't give a shot. And what's worse that can happen.
Speaker 1:You know we're just dealing with state policy here, I'll be not a big deal. Yeah, so it was. It was a good time, you know, and it's it was a good, let me say, prep work for policing as well. Oh, yeah, so I, after I was there for a while because I spent, you know, from start to finish, internship, full-time gigs, all that other kind of stuff I spent about 12 years at the Capitol before I left. Yeah, so it was a little over a decade that I spent there and then I moved over to policing.
Speaker 2:There's a lot to be learned walking the halls of that building.
Speaker 1:Oh, I tell you why.
Speaker 2:A lot of life and professional experience and growth to be. My son spent a couple of years working for a senator down there. Oh, yeah. When he was going to McCombs and he called me. He's like man, this is a, this is a whole different education I'm receiving down here.
Speaker 2:And for listeners that haven't messed around in politics you know somebody gets elected as a state rep and you know back home they own a farmer's insurance business or whatever. Whatever business they come down here, as you said, they have to be a jack of all trades. Well, they can't do it on their own and so they depend on their staff. Once with an issue is brought of hey qualified immunity, they handed over to their staff. Figure out the good, the bad, everything about it and bring me back. You know some speaking points. So, as a staff, my kid was in Macomb, so he's probably 21 years old. He's learning everything you can imagine about the world and having to develop ideas and policy and speaking points and the good, bad and the ugly, the ugly, the ugly, the ugly, the ugly, the ugly, the ugly, the ugly, the ugly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and do it quickly, yeah.
Speaker 2:But 10 years spent down there, 12 years, yeah, I mean, that's a whole different level of you. Know, you're talking about a degree, that's. That's about a degree learned down there in life and professional experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that was kind of the way that I treated it. You know, part of the and it gets you know some of the unique parts of the job is I mean, you're someone was in business school, right, we would have, we would have attorneys that came through like you know they were in law school, you know they hadn't taken the bar yet or anything, but you have people that are coming down there that are getting law degrees and they would intern for us and my job as a college dropout is to supervise this person and teach them how to read, write and understand the law and to read case law and all this other kind of stuff. So I pick on some of them and it was like you mean, that's like how much are you doing debt Like?
Speaker 3:you spent a hundred thousand dollars on this. I dropped out of college.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right, and it's like you know that's one of those things where, like you said, it's the life experience, it's what you make of it. You know, when you walk into those roles, like life is whatever you can make out of it, take the opportunities, and that was. That was just kind of the philosophy that I had and I wanted to take on as like well, if it, if it comes my way, I'll take it on. That's fine. Like sink or swim, let's go. That's cool, so it was a good time.
Speaker 3:So you worked there from from from what? Years to years, and then you jumped into police work.
Speaker 1:My first session was in 2005. And then the last session that I worked was 2017. Okay, so that was the last session that I was there, and then, in 2017, is when I started the police academy.
Speaker 3:So here at.
Speaker 1:Austin. I actually I'd actually applied here and at Longview PD because I was out in East Texas kind of at the time when that was about the time that I was living in an adventure that I was kind of looking around Cause the guy one of the guys that I was working for he'd lost his re-election. So I applied at Longview, applied at Austin. Austin picked me up first and it was about six months into the APD Academy that Longview called me and they were like hey, we got a spot for you. And I was like y'all are out of luck. It's like I am not starting this process all over again, it's like I'm just going to stay here. Thank you very much.
Speaker 3:Plus the pace a little bit better yeah.
Speaker 1:It's just a little bit better here in Austin, so I'm not complaining about that one at all.
Speaker 2:So rocking along through 2017, through, I like the 86th or 85th, whatever that would have been yeah.
Speaker 1:I think it was around there, I think it was the 85th.
Speaker 2:So what made you? Was it that session? You're like man, I think I'm done here. I'm maybe looking at law enforcement. Yeah, family law.
Speaker 1:So I I've got. I've got a couple of family members that have been in law enforcement. I've got. I got a cousin he's actually a sergeant over at a Hutt.
Speaker 3:OPD.
Speaker 1:Um, he's been there for a while. He's been there, oh God, I think like 18 years now, so he's been there for a while. Outside of that, like I haven't had anyone super close, I actually have a. It was my great, great granddaddy. He was a sheriff in Kansas and he was shot and killed in the line of duty serving a warrant. So, like he's a, yeah, he's listed on one of the ODMP pages. So you know, there's a little bit of history there.
Speaker 1:But other than that, the primary motivation, kind of looking at it right, looking at all this stuff, and I've and, like I said, I've had a few family members in it it was a sergeant that was at APD at the time that kind of recruited me, uh, to come to APD. But I'd seen what lawmaking was like and I'd seen what had happened. When we have these debates, you see it all unfold on the house or the Senate floor and you see what politicians think they're going to do, like, well, we're going to pass this, we're going to change this law and this is, this is what's going to happen. And so I was like, well, is that what actually happens? So I was like, well, there's one way to find out. So I joined law enforcement to come see what happens when you actually go to enforce the laws that I'd spent 12 years helping write. So I got into it so I could see what the reality of policy became, so kind of see what happened full circle basically.
Speaker 3:Was there ever a situation I guess I'm fast forwarding was there a bill that you were a part of, that you get, you were able to enforce and look back? Going man, I was a part of that.
Speaker 1:You know, the one of the biggest ones that we kind of worked and it's it. Unfortunately it's not a super positive example, but it was one of the reasons that I kind of got into it is, you know, back in I'll say it was like 20, 2015 when K2 started becoming real popular synthetic marijuana, all this other kind of stuff and we're always trying to keep up with these chemical. You know changes that all these dealers make to it. So we were trying to find a way to address it and at the legislative level, we came up with the bill. We were like all right, well, maybe if we change, you know, one particular part of the code or the it was the Deceptive Trade Practices Act at the time that we modified, thinking I won't, maybe maybe this will help. And I was like all right, yeah, like we were.
Speaker 1:We were all committed about it. Everybody was on board with it, like the whole legislature. Yeah, this is going to help solve our problem. And then I came out here and I was like, huh, I didn't do a thing. I was like this is still a huge problem. People do the exact same thing, like it just didn't do anything. And then, you know, we talked about even especially nowadays, like you know the UCW unlawful carry. Well, that statute is a mess and trying to enforce it. And it was the same thing where everyone like I listened to the debates and you listen to people talk about like, well, yeah, like this is, this is the way it's going to be enforced, this is what they're going to do. And you come out here and it's like, yeah, that that did not happen at all.
Speaker 1:Like you know, it's just. It seems like there is this breakdown, like where you have lawmakers that think that what they say is going to become reality, but it's like it doesn't matter what you say, it matters what you write, right, and then we have to go enforce it and there's so many loopholes that we have to jump through and deal with. So I wish I had a positive example, but unfortunately, like just kind of sitting here thinking through it, like I can't really think of one where I was like hey, this is what we thought was going to happen and a hundred percent that's what happened.
Speaker 2:Well, and so much time is needed and spent and there's not enough time to get it done Of our roles trying to educate the legislators, because they only know what they know Right and um, you know, there's been a couple of examples where I'm trying to talk to a legislator and you know one of them was we were trying to tweak the failed ID law and the guy's like well, I'm not going to.
Speaker 2:you know, I don't. I don't agree with that, because you guys already stop every pedestrian you come across and I'm like really what, yeah? And he goes, yeah, y'all just drive around everybody that's walking down the street, you stop and put them in jail. I'm like I said I'm not going to do that, excuse me and I thought he was going to laugh and I'm thinking well, first of all, we're kind of too busy to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but number two that's not even close to reality, like he literally believed, because somebody I'm sure had gone in there and told him every person walking down the street we stop and they go to jail. And I'm like yeah.
Speaker 2:And when it dawned on me he's dead serious. I thought, man, there's a lot of education needs to be spent to help them understand the reality of the situation, and when I was younger it frustrated me. But they only know what they know, or they only know what somebody on the counter side of of our issue goes in and tells them.
Speaker 2:So, that's the fact that they're working from, but it's shocking sometimes that we're not up against maybe a legislator. It doesn't like us. It's a legislator, that somebody is given bad information and that's what they're. It's the only thing they have to operate off of. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:No, it's. I mean, it's a hundred percent accurate, not just from the legislative but obviously the public side too. Yep, you know, lately, in the last few years alone, I've seen several examples. We had a training, we had to go through it, apd, where we would like you know, it was all during COVID times, it was zoom and all this other kind of stuff, but we had a whole bunch of community folks on there and one of the topics that came up was racial profiling and just kind of the way the topic was going.
Speaker 1:I was like man, it does not feel like we're talking about the same thing here. So I finally asked them I was like when we say racial profiling, what do you think? And they were like well, that's where you just, you know, see a black person walked down the street and go stop them. I was like no, whoa, whoa, whoa. I was like that is not what we do.
Speaker 1:I was like these racial profiling ports are things that work, compelled to do. Like anytime we have an interaction with someone, we have to say, you know, like this is why we stopped them. And then these are the demographics and this was the outcome. It's like it's something that we have to do and it's just a report. It has absolutely nothing to do with you know as randomly picking someone's like that doesn't happen. We still have to have legal basis to do all of this on. And their reaction was it was just stunned, like that when you're like at first you're just like there's no way they're serious about this, and then you're sitting there and like, oh no, they are, and so like their reaction they were like, oh, I didn't get that.
Speaker 1:And then at the Capitol with the legislator, I sat in a hearing where we were trying to get a bill done to where the state actually maintains kind of like a repository of ammo and stuff so that way, if we come across the shortage again, law enforcement can get access to it. Because getting access to training ammo sometimes is a problem if manufacturers run into supply issues, whatever COVID, all this other kind of stuff. And one of the legislators on that panel he asked and I feel bad for the poor DPS folks that had to answer the question, but he was he asked me well, you know how many rounds do you go through? You know training somebody. And they told him, you know it's obviously not a small amount, it's, you know, somewhere around 5000 rounds, something like that, just to get someone through the academy.
Speaker 1:And he was like do y'all really need to do that? Like I mean, like why do they? Why do they need so much ammo? Like why do you need to learn how to shoot? And I was like excuse me. And you're like this is, and it was a serious question from him. And you're like how do you not understand the connection between all of this Like we're held to this impossible standard where if you don't shoot someone legally, if it's not a good shoot, that you're going to be held accountable, sent to jail for it, all those other kinds of stuff, but then they don't want to train you or give you the equipment to actually, you know, do the job. That they want to hold you to this high standard for so like the disconnect is just unreal, it seems like, and to your point, it's education. We don't, we don't explain it.
Speaker 2:We demand perfection but don't want to spend money to train you up to perfection.
Speaker 3:I think this that's a good point for us to segue into the current situation of what's going on about being uneducated and uninformed about the realities behind having ammunition 2020,. We faced some horrific riots in downtown Austin, where the there might have been some mishaps with the ammunition involved, and then it resulted in 21 Austin police officers being indicted. 17 of those have been dismissed as of last week and currently we still there's still four yeah, we still got four on, I guess, on the hook I guess is the best way to say it until this DA gets educated about the right thing to do. Touch on that, because you are boots on the ground at that point in time. Talk about the situation there, the morale aspects of APD at the time, 21 people get indicted for doing their job and trying to protect the life, liberty and property of Austin and just doing what their jobs are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I told I can't remember who it was. I sat down in a meeting with someone and I told him. I was like, look, it was my. When that all happened May of 2020, I was sitting in my house, sitting in my house and someone said, hey, turn on the news. All right, look at it. And as I'm watching it, it's all the live coverage of what's going on in downtown Austin and some other kind of stuff. And I was like, oh, this ain't going to be good. And then, lo and behold, the pager goes off. Oh, um, and it's what we call an alpha bravo, which is basically everybody comes in and we work on rotating shifts, 12 hours on, 12 hours off, until they say stop Shit. And so, like it was, it was the world is ending, type page. So we all report in and they sent us out to the training academy and they bust us downtown.
Speaker 2:It's all hands on ducks ID patrol everybody.
Speaker 1:It doesn't matter if you are, unless you are. If they were actively working, they were sent down there minus the bare minimum essentials to keep patrol operating, to handle 911 calls and if you're off you're now on.
Speaker 1:So it doesn't matter if it was your day off. It's not anymore. So we went out to the academy. They bust us down. We still had very little idea what was going on the moment I stepped off a bus and it was at 35 and Riverside. The moment I stepped off a bus, we got hit with water bottles, rocks and urine and all kinds of stuff that just like we, literally two steps off the bus and we got to the party?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no doubt. So that set the tone and it was like wait, I mean, we didn't even know what we did. It was like we're still trying to get to grips about what this is all about and you're in uniform and you're a police officer and that's what you get. That's exactly what it was. And for months we stood there. For months we stood around the main, we stood at city hall, we stood at, you know, all these places trying to keep people from burning our city down, and people are berating us, people are yelling in our faces, you know, and we just took a beating we had. We had city council members going out there and effectively agreeing with activists, joining them, marching with them, doing all this other kind of stuff, and we're over here trying to keep each other from having lasers pointed in their eyes and people throwing fireworks at us and people coming up with Molotov cocktails, like that's what we were dealing with, and our elected officials were out there and they're egging people on, basically, literally for months.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, this went, this went on, for I mean they, they modified the schedule finally, but I mean I think we went. Oh man, it went on for quite a while. We were, I want to say it was like over 30 days that we were doing. Like every day we had to report and we were under what we call mobile field force, where we had to designate certain people to go downtown and you had to be ready all the time.
Speaker 2:And for our non police listeners, the amount of respect I have. Yeah, several years ago TPA staff we went to Field Force Operation School at Fort McClellan in Alabama where they teach emergency center teachers, field force, and the class culminates at the end of the week into a riot. They bring in actors, they bring in civilian actors and you're fully suited up, turtle suited up, and they're blaring, you know, rock music.
Speaker 2:Yeah and we hold the line maybe for 45 minutes and to do it for 30 days. The funny story one of our guys that doesn't work here anymore. We're holding the line and they're spitting on us talking about our mom and what they're gonna do to our wife and we you know it's all fake and the former employee with his baton smacks the rubber training baton, smacks the rider between the eyeballs and drops him. And I look over and he's like I couldn't listen to that anymore and I'm like but this is fake, you just smacked that drug.
Speaker 2:Oh, dude, I couldn't listen to this. The amount of professionalism, the amount of restraint for 30 days on end to go be berated because you're simply a police officer and you weren't Minneapolis, I'm quite certain, you weren't anywhere near George Floyd, I'm quite certain and for 30 days for the men and women, austin, to go stand the line, be berated, have urine thrown on them. Me and my buddy couldn't handle it for 30 minutes in a fake, simulated situation with it. I'm snapping and yeah, and it takes some serious internal work, yeah, well, and the amount of respect I have for you guys, man, I can't fathom it was.
Speaker 1:It was definitely unprecedented for us. But you know I would have said it before this. But you know as a union president now I will say it again that the amount of pride I have in this department is unreal, Like the way we conduct ourselves. Good luck finding that in any other major municipality really, like across the country. It's just a whole other standard In the social media warriors.
Speaker 2:I promise you any one of them, if the roles were reversed and you were in their face talking about their mom and spitting on them or throwing bottles of urine on them, they would lose it, they'd pull a knife or shoot you or they would come unglued but were held to an entirely different standard in the professionalism, and that's something I don't think people really consider.
Speaker 1:No, and I mean it's kind of funny because you mentioned, you know like, oh yeah, it was just, you know, training. It wasn't real, I legitimately had. So I was part of a team that we call. It's called B-POTS, what we call it it's Bicycle Public Order Team, so we're kind of crowd-controlled, but we ride around on bikes and this was a major test for us and how we handle our responses. And we got sent down to City Hall. One day there's actually I want to say it was like the third, fourth day maybe into this we got sent down to City Hall to go clear something up down there and we rode in and I mean we rode into.
Speaker 1:It seemed like the pit of hell, like it was.
Speaker 1:It was a disaster from start to finish and, as we're trying to maintain things, like we had officers get overrun, we had people try to pull us off our bikes, we had people trying to rip our bikes away from us and so, throughout all of that, like we were trying to push people back to regain some ground because of the road they'd taken over.
Speaker 1:And you know one of the people that happened to be involved that you know I was pushing back from my bike they decided that they'd go on social media and they went after my family. Like I had someone that was in the protest that actually took to social media and and found my family and started going after them, to the point that, like I had to call the agency that my family lived at and they wouldn't put a patrol around their house. Like I mean, we say that it's and that's. The thing is, like we say some of this stuff like it seems like it's fake, but it comes from somewhere, and the realities of what we have gone through and you know, in fairness, it's not just us like Dallas, houston, like they dealt with it too, yeah Right, but you know, here in Austin, for us this was just a whole other level and I think a lot of people just don't understand the amount of stress that causes for people, especially for something we weren't involved in.
Speaker 3:Just so I'm clear, jose Garza was not there with you guys, shoulder to shoulder, assisting with the rides. No, okay, I just want to point that out there. And then for the fact that he can go on several months after the fact and talk about innocent bystanders. That's the whole principle behind what's irritating and we've had this discussion that you can't say for an individual to try to rip a police officer's bike away, to throw urine, to throw rocks, to assault you guys and then to label those individuals as innocent bystanders.
Speaker 2:It's a protest, peaceful protest, complete bullshit. Yeah, it's a riot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's exactly what it was for 30 days, if not longer.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And it's just, it's irritating to hear and see a politician that's more committed to his political woke agenda than the public safety.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's you know, and that was you know. That's the thing is like. It confuses so many people. You know, getting indicted is one thing, but to get indicted for doing your job, like it's not like. There's things where it's like man, this just, it just makes no sense, and that's where you just start looking to like well, how did we get here? And that's what, just like you said it people that have an agenda.
Speaker 2:The disgusting is the disgusting part is if you arrested a guy for class assault and you decided to fudge, pervert the law and overcharge him with class assault. Or you arrest a guy for PI and then go well, since he was near a car, I want to overcharge him. I'm gonna charge him a DWI. If, if any police officer overcharges, perverts the law, uses it for political gain or official oppression, any one of us would be held accountable in a freaking heartbeat, yep. But an elected district attorney can weaponize the law, pervert justice, overcharge and there's no accountability. There's a Garland officer that is indicted in Dallas County right now for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon by peace officer, by threat, because he shot a bean background and missed and the suspect disappeared into the crowd. They don't know who the suspect is or, I'm sorry, the complainant.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry that wasn't sensitive.
Speaker 2:They don't know who the complainant is because he disappeared into the crowd. They don't have a complainant really, even if they find him because he didn't hit anybody. But a Garland officer is felony under felony. Indictment for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon by police officer by threat, yeah.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking when the 90s, when I started Garland and the gangs were heavy, we pulled our gun like 10 times a night. So I guess we were committing aggravated assault, the deadly weapon, like 10 times a night, yeah. If you want to start overcharging every yeah.
Speaker 1:Seems like what the way most DA's would see it this day.
Speaker 2:You know, but how, how hypocritical that if you overcharge somebody, you would be charged the Rangers or somebody would come in and charge you with official oppression in a heartbeat. Yeah, that you were using the law in your authority to abuse somebody's rights, and their first and their constitutional rights. Yeah, but that that doesn't go both ways.
Speaker 1:No, it's absolutely a double standard, like you said. If only here in Travis County our district attorney would give as much attention to crimes that actually had merit other than baseless political claims, maybe maybe we wouldn't have killing sprees going. Yeah, that's right, maybe we would have all kinds of you know homicide and DWI rates being broken. You know, like we, the records we're breaking these days are not good ones, like the records we're breaking our record low staffing and record high traffic fatalities and record high murders.
Speaker 3:But there's a connection to that, because you look at the district attorney me and Clint were talking about that a while ago is the fact that you've got Jesus, or you got Jose Garza, you got Jose Gonzalez, david Crizzot Clint and him are really good friends and then Kim Kim Og and Harris County and they're all source funded political radical people. But you look at their communities and the crime rate are astronomically higher than what they were before they got in office and the assault on police in their counties or astronomically higher, seemingly, than any other part in Texas. There's a connection there, right? You can't be woke and expect your communities to be safe.
Speaker 2:And I think that's what I would say to our listeners. The reasonable listener, the reasonable citizen are the silent majority, they're not the ones kicking and screaming. I think any reasonable American living in Travis County that sees their district attorney post a job position eliciting someone to come prosecute their police officers should be outraged. Yeah, and I'm not talking about the woke nuts, the few woke nuts. I'm talking about the reasonable citizens of Travis County, and I know there's a ton of reasonable citizens in. Travis County.
Speaker 1:That's absurd, that's absurd.
Speaker 2:That'd be like me as a CEO saying I need to hire somebody in HR that's willing to come in and fire everybody. I have Right, that's not effective. That's not a great strategy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's not a good PR strategy. No, it's not going to help you at all, especially in policing, when it comes to recruiting and retaining people. Like we just we I mean we are on the struggle bus trying to get people to want to join law enforcement, not just in Austin but nationwide, and, like you said, we write off a whole bunch of examples here in Texas. You do it all across the country and all these places, like we just were. This is all going to hit a point where it's either unrecoverable or we're just teetering with disaster right now. So, you know, here in Austin we're probably at least, honestly, to even get back to where we were. We're probably a decade or more away, like in, in a matter of just a few short years, they've caused decades worth of damage. I got a two parter.
Speaker 2:What is yours authorized sworn? What should it be? What is it today? And the question to as an APD officer and as the union president, I respect the hell out of the men and women there that still get up every morning, strap up, go to work knowing they could leave and go to Plano and you know they could leave and go to Grand Prairie, they could leave and go to Williamson County. They could go somewhere and not face the circus every day. Yeah, that would be the easy thing to do, but the men and women choose to stay there and strap up every day. As an APD officer and also as union president, how do you guys stay motivated? And what is the passion, the desire? Tell me what that, what is the ingredient that causes you guys to not take the easy route?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, honestly, for me, other than growing up here, it's the people, I guess, the people that are around here. You know, like, when we talk about law enforcement, supposed to be this brotherhood, right where you are, you are your brother and sister's keeper. This is a department that we do take that very seriously and that internally, amongst officers that's, it's deep-seated, and so I think that's what keeps most of us here. It's the people that we work with. It's our shift partners, it's our unit partners, it's, you know, the men and women that we work with every single day and we stood with for months.
Speaker 1:Right, when you're going through, when you're going through the stuff that we went through in protest, right, you can't, you can't help but come out closer. On the other end, I mean, we're literally, during that time in particular, we're sleeping under tables at the main, we're sleeping propped up against gas pumps, like we're sleeping wherever we can. And you know, like, when you're going through that kind of stuff with your fellow officers, like it just forms this bond you know, yeah, exactly, I mean literally in some cases, you know, when we're having to fight with folks just to maintain some sense of order.
Speaker 1:So I think it's the people is one of the biggest things that actually keeps us here. You know, austin is a unique city and and the challenges that we have here and the type of police work that we get to do and I think that's part of it too. Like it's it's a big city, we deal with challenges, but every sector, you know the city's divided up into nine different sectors and Every bit of it's different. Every sector is different. You know, it's almost like we have nine different little departments inside of one city, yet effectively, so it's just that bond like that. I think that's what keeps most people here is we want to be here for each other, you know. And on the staffing, like we're oh man, cuz they took 150 positions away from us and 150 million, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you know that they've got on top of the DA bullshit Right, yeah the.
Speaker 1:D fund. That happened, yeah, we did. Ultimately they wound up, you know, giving it back, but it got shuffled around and we played shell games and all this other kind of nonsense. But right now we have about 511 vacancies, including that hundred Holy, that hundred and hundred and fifty. That was taken away from us. But what's even, what's even more sad is right now we have just under 1500. When at our peak we were at about almost almost 1900, 18, 1875, something like that at our peak, and we were when we were there, the city did a study and Said we needed two to three hundred more officers back then. So really we should be hovering around the 2200 mark on authorized strength and we've got less than 1500.
Speaker 1:Wow so Testament yeah, I mean, and that's where you know, operationally man it is, it is getting harder and harder and you know talking about like that critical point. We're like you just it's almost unrecoverable as our staffing goes down. We have detectives that are working backfill, specialized units that are working backfill, and there I mean they're getting into these critical incidents, right, they're getting into things. We're like it's just, it's not stuff that you expect. You're supposed to be doing something else. You're supposed to be doing your detective work, whatever. You did your time on patrol and you're ready to, you know, go on and do other things, but they're having to come back and work patrol. They're having to come back and you know help, take calls, and they're having to pull double duty.
Speaker 1:Like I, prior to doing the, the association thing here, I was just a night shift patrol guy and I tell any detective, anyone in the specialized unit and I was like y'all got a worse than I do. Like I'm a night shift patrol guy. I was like my job's, all things considered, relatively easy I show up to work, I take my calls and I go home. If I work more, that's kind of on me and we all work a decent amount over time just to help our shift mates out and other shifts.
Speaker 1:But you have guys that are working sex crimes, aggravated assault, they're working homicide, all this other kind of stuff, and they don't just work four days a week like they have to do that and work patrol. They're being told like, hey, you still got to go back and take calls too, so like they're pulling double and triple duty and you can only. And you know, the sad thing is you look at the stats like some crimes are going up, but then some stuff it seems like it's staying flat and people like, oh see, you know, everything's fine. No, everything is not fine. The only reason that our crime has not gotten just Astronomically out of control is because the men and women of the Austin police department are being running into the ground. Yeah, that's why?
Speaker 1:and that's not sustainable? No, it's not. It's absolutely not. At some point it's, it's all just gonna fall apart.
Speaker 3:What was the boots on the ground mentality About DPS coming in and assisting you guys? Because I was talking to an Austin police officer very similar to Chris Cabrera. Chris Cabrera was the is the vice president of the National Border Patrol Council and it it when DPS would hit, assist Border Patrol, he fight. I told me, and Clint Eastman, I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed because we have to depend on DPS and some of the APD guys were kind of like this is embarrassing because now we got a rely on the Texas 10 boys to come in and help us out.
Speaker 3:But from operational standpoint, how beneficial was that for boots on the ground to be entering calls and have DPS Trip or show up by which are not historically for the non-listener? Historically, dps has been we jokingly and I mean this lovingly you know the highway roaches right, the. You know all they did is write tickets and work accidents. They're not typically going to domestic calls back to back, especially in an urban environment. So how beneficial was it to them to have them assist with you guys? Being the fact that Garza knocked out 1% of y'all's Patrol strength or y'alls operational strength by doing the bullshit 21 indictments and you got the 150 positions that were taken away. But how, how, how cool was it? Or how beneficial was it to the boots on the ground?
Speaker 1:I mean it was helpful. I mean kind of, like you said, like we wish they didn't have to come, and I feel, honestly, I feel bad for them. Yeah, they're getting yanked all over the state trying to pull you know, yeah, all kinds of different assignments and I have a buddy who's with DPS, so I keep in contact with him and I'm like man, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:It's like, if only we could just, you know, solve these problems on our own. So we wish that we could just do it on our own, that'd be great, right. But you know, it's also a relief, because there's been times, I tell you, like I've been running, you know, lights and sirens, code 3 to a call, and all of a sudden, this trooper, he just, he just sees you drive by and he's like, yeah, so he just turns on his lights, following down, and I've had him roll up and we, you know, he can kind of hear a little bit of the chatter He'll pull up behind us and he's like, why ain't on the radio? Is like, but where'd they go? And we'll point it out and they'll just all ask taking off after somebody. So it's cool, it's helpful to see it and, you know, having the force multiplier, it definitely it works, like we legit had.
Speaker 1:It was earlier this year we had a homicide that happened down in South Austin and by the time we caught up with the suspects, you know, and some of them were juveniles. But by the time we caught up with them and they interviewed them, they said, well, why, why did this happen? And then it was a cop, it was a carjacking gone wrong where they wound up, you know, shooting and killing dude and Like, well, like we were doing, we used to be doing burglaries, and then, you know, we stopped when DPS came in and then we saw that they left so we started up again and then dude died, holy shit. So like it's when we talk about staffing has real life consequences you wouldn't talk about like the best example is right there, like they just point.
Speaker 1:Blake said it is like DPS left so we figured it was okay to get going again. So like, oh, okay, and I mean that's, that's where we're at right now. So it's nice to have them. Hate that they have to be here. Wish we could just take care of our own house. But from from the citizens perspective, from Austin nights, you want them here because if you don't like, ain't no telling what's gonna happen.
Speaker 2:That's what's been cool about. You know, they came to Dallas and did the same thing, and Tyler and I spent in, our executive director spent last week on the border, and it's cool to see that. You know, in the border. You know if politicians, the national level, won't take care of Texas, my god, texas will go down there and take care of Texas. Right, dallas is facing some unprecedented crime, while back, and you know if the, if the Politicians, they won't address it, my god Texas will come in. And so it's a blessing to have some backup, because yeah until you're in a A fist fight in a dark alley.
Speaker 2:You want to hear all the Engines revving, headed your way, that you can, oh yeah, can't have enough of those.
Speaker 1:No, that's the most comforting sound in the world you fighting with somebody shit, I'm just hear the parade of sirens coming. You know, and then you know, you can always tell, because you know by the time all the dust settles. Whatever you walk up and boy, you can just smell brakes and paint all over the place. I've killed a car to run into a run into a hot call where someone was fighting someone.
Speaker 1:So you know it's, it's the most comforting thing in the world and you know, when you don't have that you're like man, it's just man, I gotta, I gotta hit this real quick.
Speaker 3:Clint just talked about this being at the border. Our executive director I'm not gonna say he has dual citizenship between here and there in Austin and in the border.
Speaker 3:This was his idea. Some big food junkie, me and Clint, both run, we're in, we're in McAllen, right, we are in the Tex-Mex heart of Texas. Yeah, so it's like 10 15 in the morning. Kevin's like man, I'm starving. Where does he pick up? All the places in McAllen and Edinburgh, this fool picks cracker barrel and I'm like and I didn't want to argue with him, I was like, okay, whatever, but cracker barrel. So we only got to eat out like twice down, L cracker barrel, yeah, l cracker barrel.
Speaker 3:And so anyway, I'm gonna go back to the Cracker barrel and so, anyway, I was telling Janet about that, we were kind of reviewing the stuff. But shout out to the DPS guys. Oh yeah, man, I was down, we were down there for four days, three days, and I drove home and I remember driving home, going when we were yesterday at this time is probably exactly where there are today and I'm able to go home and I'm able to leave, but they're stuck there.
Speaker 3:It's not hail, because they they're, most of them are born in that community. That's their world, just as Aaron Slater says it beautifully. But man, what, what, a? What a testament and dedication to you know, to the troopers, that they're kind of bouncing all over place, just as you said a while ago, was that? Yeah, it's embarrassing some aspect because you got so much pride for Austin. Yeah, but they're willing to do it, you know so yeah, hats off to them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no doubt. I mean, we're definitely grateful for them, so I'll take care of them where we can what's crazy, what frustrates me is I'm born and raised in Texas.
Speaker 2:I'm friggin die hard Texan man. It's the greatest country in the world, absolutely. And you look at the experiment Seattle and you look at the experiment in Portland. You look at San Francisco, you look at Minneapolis they are about two years of head of Austin because those experiments already failed yeah and they're beginning to change. We're great friends with Mike Solan at Seattle and they're on the backside of the failed experiment in Seattle's actually starting to get middle of the road. These and ours, the normal, the normal rational people of the world.
Speaker 2:Yeah they're actually getting election changes because people realized this doesn't work Defunding, not having the police, not supporting the police, crime going through the roof. I'm not a smart guy but I knew that wouldn't work. Yeah, they're realizing now those experiments failed. Austin's like two years, I think, behind now and I tell people when I'm out visiting it took some bad disasters in those communities before that tide changed and but for some reasonable people beginning to come forward, if that doesn't happen, mm-hmm, I don't want Austin to suffer or horrific. They burned the Seattle Police Association building. They've tried burning the Portland Police Association building.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean there it takes them. Horrific tragedy. It's like 9 11. It took Americans, unfortunately, 9 11 to actually wake up and see the world. Yeah, went the most, the most saddened I've been being a Texan. My peer and I were in California at a school of poor act school. We were the only Texans in the room. It's labor leadership from all over California. In about three hours into it, um, the the leader, uh the the the instructor in the class said guys, we're telling horrible stories from all over California, but unfortunately we're not Austin. We got two guys from Texas here. Yeah, I wanted to crawl into the table because I thought I was in the armpit of the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, being in.
Speaker 2:California. Yeah, and I'm like when they're proud that they're not in Austin, not in Texas. Yeah, everybody should want to be in Texas. As far as I'm concerned, everybody in the world should want to be here. Yeah, and I thought, man, what a bad place when people in San Francisco, PD or LAPD think that they're better off than being in Austin. I'm like this is not how this is supposed to work. This is not.
Speaker 1:It's not good. No, it is kind of funny that you mentioned that, because my wife and I would like to travel around and I'm a big baseball fan, so pretty much anywhere we go out of state I like to go to an MLB game. Yeah, shout out Rangers.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:Astros man, come on. Well, we won the. World Series. I'd give her a shout out. Yeah, that's fine, all right, I'm good. I'm good with that. It was a Texas team that won this fair.
Speaker 3:I'm good with that.
Speaker 1:You know. So we actually we went to a Rangers game last year and then you know we've done. You know New York and Colorado and you know all over, you know Midwest East Coast, all that kind of stuff, and at every single stadium that I've been to I have, you know you can carry into the stadiums and you know I'll go see. Whatever the officer is that you know is running security check badges, all that kind of stuff, walk up to him and I handed my ID and they see, and they're like, oh, you're from Austin. I'm like, yeah, he's like that sounds rough.
Speaker 1:I'm like God dang. It's like NYPD is taking pity on me. I'm like this is yeah, well, I thought we were doing OK and that's one that it just is a reality check. Where you're like I wasn't expecting that one. You know, when Denver, pd and NYPD are taking pity on you, you're like that says something yeah. It's like well, things are worse than I thought.
Speaker 2:God, I'm not in. I know that hurts you because you're from Austin.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But even people that aren't native to the agency. They work for the badge you wear your whole career. Dude, it's like a night back in the day. That's the shield that you carried in. I'm proud to work for Garland. I carry my retired Garland badge and I'll probably stand on the table and tell people I'm proud to be from Garland. And I know you're that way about APD yeah, absolutely. And so for Denver, liberal Denver and New York dude, what a what a kick in the face. That shouldn't happen. Yeah, it shouldn't be.
Speaker 1:It's been completely avoidable, like we really could have avoided a lot of this. You know, and it is, it's embarrassing. Like you said, we do have a lot of pride, yeah, especially someone that grew up here. Like I care about this city, you know, no matter what the politics may be here, ultimately the people, the city, I think are worth fighting for.
Speaker 2:And that's another thing I want all of our listeners to understand. That aren't cops. People think we're just robots and we just strap up to go get a paycheck. Yeah, you ask most cops why they're there. Because they freaking care about their community. Yeah, I've got a sheriff's department in East Texas that makes 12, 15 hour, mm hmm. And I told them I'll leave and go to Bucky's because they get a five dollar an hour raise and I'm like, why would you stay here for 12, 15 hour? And they're like because I love this community, because I love the people here. Yeah, and I think a lot of, I think a lot of non law enforcement think we just put a uniform on just because it's cool or we think we look good in it. And you know we want a paycheck that's consistent in that that's so superficial to what the fact of the matter is. Cops care about. They care the hell out about the community that they're protecting.
Speaker 1:Yep, that they do. And the same is true here, like we just want to be able to police and keep our city safe and make it a place where people can enjoy ACL, south by Southwest, all these cool events, you know. We have concerts and sporting venues that happen just all the time, like there's always something going on in the city.
Speaker 1:It's just a pretty area. Yeah, it's a gorgeous city. I mean all the different. I can bike trails. You know there's lots of. There's more green in this city than you'll find in just about any other major metropolitan city, so we love it. You know this is a great place to be and to see it just being ravished. Yeah, his boy is heartbreaking.
Speaker 2:With an APD officer on. That's a big runner. Yeah, he's been mewis, oh yeah yeah, yeah, he said I like to get out my beat off duty and jog and just see the people in them, see me. Yeah, I like to jog my beat and interact and be seen in the community and I thought, dude, that is, that is awesome.
Speaker 3:Shout out to Ben because he just got through a thing. I think you actually met him at the Capitol. We're going to talk about that real quick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so before we leave that, which favorite baseball stadium you visited? Oh, I mean, I'm an Astros fan so I kind of got to say I love Minute Made Park. But oh, that's a hard one. I'm trying to. You know, actual, it's the oh. We just went to the Tigers game and their stadium was pretty good, but the Mariners stadium actually in Seattle, yes, it's actually really nice.
Speaker 3:It is a beautiful stadium.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a great stadium.
Speaker 3:I got my head shaved there when I was like 12 at the stadium. All right At the yeah, On purpose it was like a cut. Okay, let me back up on that one.
Speaker 1:I was like that's that's yeah, it was like a cancer awareness time deal.
Speaker 3:So they were shaving all the people could show up and you it was a line my dad I mean it was Green Day was playing, I remember that at the concert and you kind of walked through and got your head shaved.
Speaker 1:Oh they took all the hair and made wigs.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's cool.
Speaker 1:In Seattle. Okay, got it. That makes more sense now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sorry, that's kind of a random.
Speaker 2:I got Tourette's, he's going off the rails over here.
Speaker 3:We're about to have an outcry.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, I was not a victim of a crowd. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Speaker 3:It was under the bleachers.
Speaker 1:I mean, it went sideways real quick. Yeah, I like Fenway.
Speaker 2:I got to visit Fenway and do the tour with the history. Yeah, I don't know if it's the ballpark specifically or Boston, but the history of that stadium is freaking.
Speaker 1:That's what I've heard. That's been longer on my bucket list. Oh, I love to go to Fenway. Let's go all together, hey.
Speaker 2:I'm down. Let's go to the ball game. It is the. History is freaking.
Speaker 3:They sell beer there. Yeah, I've heard. I've heard they make Boston.
Speaker 1:I figured I'm pretty sure they're one of the few that still does. You know, like the Dollar Hot Dog and Beer Night where you can go and you don't have to spend $10 on one beer. Oh, you say that's awesome man.
Speaker 3:That actually exists.
Speaker 2:It's a cool ballpark.
Speaker 3:Wow, we'll do it. Oh, I'm down yeah.
Speaker 1:No, it'd be great. That's one of the ones that's been top on my list for a while, so I'd love to go check that one out. This calendar there you go. Yeah, it's been, you know lots of good stuff to do out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I interrupted how him and Ben met.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, Well, Ben, that's what it was I was talking about. Ben and the mission that he's got going on right now. He just got through running like I think it was 100 miles or yeah, he ran.
Speaker 1:I think it wound up being like 129, something like that?
Speaker 3:Oh perfect, yeah, that was what.
Speaker 2:I asked him.
Speaker 1:I saw him at the end and I was like you did this voluntarily. And what's even crazier is he's already talking about his plans for next year.
Speaker 2:And they're going to run even longer and I'm like you're crazy man. Unless a lion is after me. Yeah. There's they happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so they had this. You know you heard a little bit of the story about it but you know, with the pig that they rescued Carlton and that was kind of. You know, I've seen, I've seen him around a little bit, but this was the first time I'd really kind of sat down and talked to him. And I had kind of the same reaction. I was like man, you just you running, like just to run.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's all you wanted to do, but it was a cool one because he ran from. He did the. What did you call it? It was the Liberty run, I think is what they called it, because they ran from Goliad to Gonzalez and up. So all the major yeah, major milestones in Texas history. So he's a real good dude.
Speaker 3:And he's a great guy.
Speaker 1:Oh man, love that guy. So and he's, you know, as a sergeant. He's a patrol sergeant, so he's looking out for he's got a real young shift.
Speaker 3:Well, that must be recent, because he was a corporal when he came on. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, he's just not too long ago. Yeah, he's a sergeant now, so he's out there looking out for folks.
Speaker 3:Damn. I guess the podcast help us out there. Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1:But yeah, he's you know and he's planning on doing it, because he does them for like fundraising for nonprofits.
Speaker 3:That's cool, and so he picks.
Speaker 1:He picks different ones each year and just because they helped rescue a pig, it wound up being some a pig rescue foundation that they helped out with, and I ain't gonna lie, it's a pretty cool pig, yeah it's cool, yeah, but they brought it out to the end when they finished at the Capitol and I was like you see this pig walk off and you're like what in the world is going on here?
Speaker 1:But I was like, all right, it's actually pretty cool, yeah, oh. But yeah, his next one is probably gonna be pretty good too. And you know, I just from our association side, like I just I love that stuff. Yeah, like people don't understand to, you know, and I you can just go on this one round and round all day long about, I think, misconceptions people have. But you know he runs voluntarily these long distances to raise money for other causes. And he's not the only one. We have officers all over, all over our department that do all kinds of different stuff. You know we have people who are like former professional bike riders, rode on, like Lance Armstrong's team, the NFL players, like we have all kinds of different people that do awesome work here outside of police work, like they're heavily involved in our community doing all kinds of different stuff.
Speaker 1:And you know Ben is a great example of that one and I just we just hope to highlight more of those Like I just I'd rather people know like we're more than just cops, like we're still people too, yep, and we still care about all kinds of other stuff in our own community. That's awesome. Yeah, it's been great.
Speaker 3:Well, so back to what we just we talked about that you're newly elected. Kind of give us, if you want to give a or end on this, give some goals of what you would like to see, you know, the Austin police officer, the Austin police association do, and kind of what your goals are the next, the next year, and how long. How long was your term with APA? Three years, Three years. So you know, is there any goals that you want to talk about?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean we got. Unfortunately we got a long list, I know right.
Speaker 3:I'll tell you what.
Speaker 1:Oh, you know, not like it's really in my control, but first and foremost, I'd really love it if people quit. Quit shooting at my cops. Um, I'm getting really sick and tired of people making target practice out of officers. Like that's just ridiculous. And it's obviously not just us, it's all over the country. Had another one last night, yeah, yeah, we had another, I mean, and it's been. I was talking to someone this morning about it. I'm going to go off on a rabbit trail. You got one, I get one, yeah, and it was. I was talking to someone this morning about it and they were like man, how's the last 24 hours been? And I was like man, 24 hours, what you talking about? I was like let's talk about the last two months.
Speaker 1:About two months ago, we had officers that responded to a call at an apartment complex where a guy was holding a female at gunpoint. They show up, officers, get shot at and they have to go inside briefs door because they're trying to rescue someone. That's, you know, being held hostage, basically. And as soon as they go to breach they get shot at through a door. And you know, fortunately we were able to rescue everybody with no injuries on the victim part that time the suspect died but and the officers were all okay, and then that kind of man. That was two months ago. And then, like you said, two days after I got elected, back on the 11th of November, we had another hostage situation down in South Austin where, you know, three people got stabbed, one person got out, and then officers go in, they try to rescue the hostages and as soon as they breach that door, this dude with a rifle on the other side is cranking off rounds at them. And then SWAT shows up and they go to try to, you know, complete the rescue and we lose an officer in the progress of that one. Like they, no hesitation, they went through that door and they were ready to go handle business and one of them didn't come home and another one was entered as a result. And then last week we had a SWAT standoff where yet again, swat shows up and some dudes inside of a house and he's cranking off rounds at officers trying to shoot at SWAT guys. Again. Fortunately that one ended peacefully where he gave up and they were able to get him detained. And then last night, you know, we had a guy that went on a killing spree around here in Austin seems like and you know he and then at the very end, it ends with an officer going to a call trying to take care of you know two people that are, you know, inside and they're trying to, you know, basically save them if we can. We don't know what all's going on and as soon as he goes around and gets shot at again and fortunately he's going to be okay.
Speaker 1:But I mean, we're just, it's just left, right and center the last two months and it kind of ties into a lot of the things that I want us to focus on. Right, we need to. We need more resources, we need more cops, we need DA's that will quit making us the target and actually make people who do break the law and are committing violent felonies and offenses to be held accountable, instead of this light-handed, you know weak-willed approach for you know, for prosecution. So our immediate priorities is trying to keep who we have, like we're out of contract and we've been out of contract for a while. And if you look back to 2017, that was when our contract got voted down for the first time, yeah, when that happened like there you can look at a graph. Look at a graph. We're recruiting.
Speaker 1:You know staffing's going up, things are doing better, we're hiring more people that are leaving each year and then in 2017, they vote our contract down and when that happened, we've been on a.
Speaker 1:We've been on this negative attrition rate ever since then, like we have since 2017, we've not had a single year where we've brought in more people than left. So, you know, trying to keep people here is a big deal and out of contract. We rely on city council to actually renew our pay and benefits so that we get to keep some of our soft pay for working night shift or being a mental health officer. You know, being an FTO, you know things like that. So you know, I'm trying to make sure that we actually get that and that stays in place. Fortunately, with new administration, it seems like the mayor and city management have been, you know, receptive towards the conversations, which is a good sign, and hopefully they follow through on all of that. But you know, we've just People have to actually realize that supporting the cops doesn't mean hey, yeah, good job you know like we need.
Speaker 1:We need a whole lot more than just a pat on the back you know and their support.
Speaker 3:Their support can be seen in votes Right. Their support can be seen by voting for people who are pro law enforcement and that's so crucial for the Austin community, travis County, citizens of general. But that's where people can. Their voices can be heard. Yeah, and their support can be seen.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure, know who you're voting for so if you're not law enforcement Listeners, viewers, watchers you know they want to support your local law enforcement and, specifically if you live in Austin, vote that way. Yeah, vote, vote the vote the way you should and support your law enforcement.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, especially right now, leading up to elections, and contact council, contact the commissioners, court, contact these folks and and tell them like, hey, the cops need your help. Like the things that we're asking for. We're not asking for them out of greed, we're not asking for them because we just, you know, we're like, well, you know, we just want this. That the other word, I mean we're just not shooting in the dark here. We're telling you what we need in order to police the city, to keep people from dying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like that's what we're talking about into our reasonable Citizens in Travis County in Austin. It's a vicious cycle right now because you don't have a contract. So the the retention and the recruiting is a problem.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:You mentioned earlier. The crooks know what's going on. They know when DPS isn't here. Years ago in Garland we did away with an narcotics unit because it meant we have an narcotics problem. If we have an narcotics unit Can have that literally like within 30 days, every crook knew they would tell you yeah, you don't have any.
Speaker 2:Yeah you don't get, you don't have guys working dope or interdiction or working undercover. They knew in 30 days, yeah. And so down here the guys know that you're shorthanded, they know they have a DA, that there's a better chance of them prosecuting the police and then being held accountable for their conduct. Yep, there's no deterrent to crime because they know that the DA's is Laser focused on the police not catching bad guys, which then continues on to the circle back to Recruiting and retention.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:It's a circle, probably is more a spiral. Yeah, no, no, no, it's gonna take some leadership and some reasonable citizens, mm-hmm, to step in and affect that change in. Yeah, and it's. You have men and women out here literally get shot and dying to protect the community, mm-hmm. And and what do they get for? They get urine thrown on them, they get cast at and spit at yeah is the things that they're getting. Yeah, and it's gonna take reasonable, the normal, reasonable people in this community that care mm-hmm to come out on election day.
Speaker 2:Yeah and at some point people stand up. They stood up in Seattle. Yeah, they, they've started voting out the nuts in Seattle and putting in reasonable people, and that's that's what is needed here.
Speaker 1:Oh it definitely is, and and it starts in little things too, you know, like another example we saw not that long ago was. We've obviously had a homeless problem for for a while here and you know they've done some things and it might be a little better, might not hard to tell, but we had a guy that had been arrested and he'd had, I don't know, something like 20, 30 interactions with us, so well-known guy and He'd been arrested for criminal trespass. County attorney doesn't do a thing about that. One County attorney doesn't care like well, you know, will arrest somebody for criminal trespass on a property that they've been at multiple times until they can't be there and then we'll take him to jail. And then they just dropped the charge and they don't do anything with it.
Speaker 1:Well, this guy came back, went to a property not supposed to be there and got into it with a security guard there and it went from argument to, I mean, violent encounter quickly, because the dude then gets a machete and Takes it to this poor security guard, almost cuts his arm off and then takes off. And it's someone that we've arrested time after time again Nothing happens, all right. And you know there's other cases like that that happened, where people are told you know they get involved in these violent offenses. And what's the the justice system solution to that? Hey, you, you can't have your shark pointing thing anymore. We're gonna take your knife away from you. But you know, go go away beyond that. Like that's, that's their punishment. It's like, well, that doesn't help us at all, it doesn't matter if it's a misdemeanor, right? If you don't take things serious at lower levels, it's gonna become bigger. So you know, those are the things that we need people to know about and be engaged with.
Speaker 1:So, because that's like we can't have those people In positions of influence. Like you can't have people that that's their mentality and they're the ones responsible for actually following through and enforcing the law. Like we arrest people all the time for this kind of stuff and nothing happens with it. Because I Mean, honestly, I wish I knew the difference. Is it just because we don't want to? Is it because we think it's the politically correct thing to do, or is it because we just want to make feet? You know, we don't want people to feel bad. It's like, oh, they're not really a bad person. There are bad people out there. Like let's just be honest here. There are people that do bad things and if we don't hold them accountable, like you said, other people become emboldened.
Speaker 3:That's shocking to Travis County. Yeah, he can't imagine somebody or he's gonna put a deferred Punishment to clean somebody's house. I think that was referred to the other day on the Todd non show, that's. That was literally a punishment that he tried to get incorporated into a plea deal.
Speaker 1:But yeah, they've had all kinds of policies where it's like you look at it and you're like there's no way, this is real.
Speaker 2:I have the answer to fix and homelessness in 48 hours. The three of us can collaborate on it.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay.
Speaker 2:We invite the leader of China to come here, because it fix San Francisco's homeless problem in 48 hours.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's true, they clean it up real quick, I like literally.
Speaker 2:we were talking with some folks from California that were down here a couple of Weeks ago teaching a class and they're like literally, literally, physically, in 48 hours San Francisco was cleaned, yeah not a homeless person in sight, not a piece of trash in sight.
Speaker 3:So yeah, when we get off here we three collaborate Well let's talk trash, get a hold of.
Speaker 2:OG yeah, and have him come, and well, you make the phone call because I don't want to call.
Speaker 3:I'm afraid my shit will get hacked into. And then I'm right, yeah let's do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, see, there you go Solutions everywhere. You just gotta think outside the box that it is.
Speaker 3:Oh man, do we? I think we touched on everything that we kind of wanted to cover. Anything else you want to end on?
Speaker 1:No man, I appreciate y'all having me here with you. I've enjoyed it. You know we got we got lots of challenges here in Austin, that's for sure. But the bottom line, we're still proud to be here, still proud of the, the profession, and we're out there doing good work and, no matter what other people say, we're still gonna fight for it well, we greatly appreciate you coming in, stopping in, stopping by and, man, we're looking forward to some some good changes.
Speaker 1:I think the APA is probably probably needed in the next three years and your leadership to do so and we we got lots of things on the on the to-do list, that's for sure, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Well, man, we usually end every episode. I've got a feeling that this may be my guy, as 95% of the other people who come on the podcast or Once you'd one, once you do the rapid fire, because that way I can't be. It can't be tormented. That I was trying to persuade him, oh no.
Speaker 2:I'll do that. First, I'll tell you thank you For strapping on to be the leader. It's easy to lead when the waters are smooth, but jumping in when the waters are rough and the boat's rocking Take some bravery and some courage and some leadership, some desire to do it. And I'll tell all the the men and women in this community that think, well, maybe all APD is too far gone or whatever it can be tackled. It's like eating an elephant one bite at a time, yeah. And I think the reasonable people in this community can start taking a bite at a time, yeah, and start eating the elephant and start fixing the problem and and helping Stand APD back up to where it should be, back up to that 2000 or 2200. And, yeah, I look forward to watching the department rise and watching you rise. I appreciate that we're we're doing our best to make it happen, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:Three questions, rapid fire. No, I got, I got the side one that I've been doing on some occasions your best day, yeah. In your worst day, that's a cop. Yep, oh Crap.
Speaker 1:Best day. Man, that's hard. I love my job. I can tell you the worst day and it's fresh. So you know it's probably not really fair, but the the 11th Probably one of the worst days I've had, not just because of everything that kind of went on, and you know pastore was a friend, we weren't, definitely not the closest guys that are way closer to him than I was, but he had this way of impacting people.
Speaker 1:And so, you know, like we talked on the phone and, you know, talk through some stuff, even, as you know, association stuff, and you know, did a few deployments and things with him on like one of our specialized teams. So super good, dude, and true to spirit, like right before all of this happened, I was, I happened to be kind of standing on the outskirts of the call and he showed up. He saw, he ran up to the command post, which is where I was standing. He saw me because he was, you know, he was supportive of me as I was going through this whole election process and I talked to him about that, you know, fairly frequently he ran up and he hugged me and he was like man I'm excited and then you know he saw another officer hugged them, which is just his personality and it was.
Speaker 1:You know, it was this five-second interaction, like literally five to ten seconds, and then we all hear over the radio they're stacking up on the door and they're about to go in and the dude took off running and then he never came back. It was Like this is something I you'll never forget, that you know there's been, there's been other bad days, but that's one of the. It's one of the best and worst things ever. Like someone can have that mentality the whole time, they can have that impact on you and then they and then they take off and they don't come back Like it was. It was just a, it was just a hard week and, like I said, there's guys that had it way harder than I did, that were way closer to him, but he obviously had an impact. I'd say that was probably, that's probably one of the worst. You know I'm gonna be, I'm be a little sappy because my wife is a cop too and she's copy the agency. So I'm saying one of the best days is probably when I'm at my wife here at the department.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, that's so.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna say that's, that's probably the good one, and that's a great one. Yeah, she's been. She's been awesome. So I think at the moment she's like well, wait a minute, what did I? Just sign up for I don't know if she's all about it now, but she's been hyper supportive and so you know that's that's definitely one of the best day that I've had here last one for rapid fire.
Speaker 2:How old are you? 33. So what would 33 year old you tell 15 or 16 year old you or any young man or woman, 15, 16, 17 year old young man or woman, knowing what you know, the experiences that you've had, the Institutional knowledge and your life experience you've been through, what would 33 year old you tell 15 year old you or some young man or woman right now?
Speaker 1:I'd say Take advantage of opportunities. If an opportunity presents itself, don't let it go. That's how I got here, is things just came up and and I just said yes, like hey, will you? Yeah and do it, and when you're doing that, make sure you have a good work ethic.
Speaker 1:Work ethic is everything to me and I'll tell people all day long. The only thing that I actually have control over is my word. That's the only thing. Just about everything else in this world is beyond my control, but my word is mine and I have control over that. So have a good work ethic, honor your word and take advantage of opportunities and get you along way. I love it.
Speaker 2:I love it that one rap is your line from Hot Movie, favorite police vehicle and drink of choice when you're unwinding.
Speaker 1:Alright. Favorite Favorite book movie I'm bad liberal, but it's got to be superzooms. It's just hard to go wrong. Yeah, um favorite police vehicle is I love my crown Vic man, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:I really did. You can't beat him.
Speaker 1:You know it wasn't in fairness, though, when I had him. He's going to hug you, he may he may possibly kiss you.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, he's going to hug you for sure.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I love my crown, vic, there's space. It was great. You know, one of them the transmission draft died on me and the other one had a cracked axle, but I mean I love them. Yeah, so it's fine Work. Horses, man, absolutely. Drink of choice is bourbon.
Speaker 2:Oh, hell, yeah, yeah, any particular one you like.
Speaker 1:You know my money's not a problem.
Speaker 2:If money's not an issue, what's your favorite?
Speaker 1:So my favorite right now is Blanton's gold. That's a, that's a good one. I actually just tried a. A buddy got me a bottle of the Garrison Brothers cowboy batch. Well, you went talking about that.
Speaker 2:I had that one.
Speaker 1:Well, it's hazmat, it's 140.7 proof. 0.9 proof, it's over 70% alcohol.
Speaker 2:How's it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that one's, it's. It's a hot one that's a slow simmer. Yes, sir, it is. I did it just straight. I wanted it the first one because I do all of them neat usually and I had that one just neat and I was like I let it sit for a minute, let it breathe a little bit, and I was like oh my God, I was smoking yeah. I'll tell you what, like you could. You could light a match at the top of that thing and it burns just straight blue.
Speaker 1:It's just jet fuel man but it's good and so little water is appropriate. Just cowboy batch yeah, it's cowboy batch. Garrison Brothers oh man, it's good. But that and Blanton's Gold are some of my favorites, that if I really want something good, that's what I'll have.
Speaker 2:But those are my go to ones. If you get time, take your wife to Fredericksburg, hit Garrison Brothers up or you can watch, and when they bottle they'll let folks volunteer to come bottle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I've heard.
Speaker 2:And they happen to serve throughout the day. Yeah, so as you're bottling, you're also sipping. That's my kind of work right there. Mr Garrison actually sits out there and when you bottle one, you hand it to him and he's he's signing it.
Speaker 3:Hell, we're in there all the time. I should go, I should go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that one a lot. I've been told you need to go out there, and so I just haven't done it. There's actually a place in Fredericksburg to called the Elk Room. If you've never been there, it's good. They make all their own stuff there.
Speaker 3:The main drag when you come in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's a good spot.
Speaker 3:I know that it was a big ass elk.
Speaker 1:It was a little bit of a hint for you. Yeah, those cops can catch that clue.
Speaker 3:I read books by color. Yeah, pop-up, whatever. Me and Clint both.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but no, it's a good place to go. I love that place and they make a. It's kind of like a is it moonshine flavored or whiskey flavored moonshine? And so it's also. It's a little potent, but it's good stuff and they treat you right over there.
Speaker 2:So let's get to the bottle of that one we're good to.
Speaker 1:Fenway. There you go, so I'm gonna go over to the bottom of it. They had a strawberry, jalapeno moonshine. Oh man. Yeah, oh, it is good, because it is good, yeah, like you take a sip of it and it's got that little bite of pepper at the front, but then it kind of mellows out and you got a little strawberry in the end.
Speaker 1:I was like I don't know what you're doing over here and they do that kind of stuff all the time, like they just make stuff up, and I was like Sweet little spicy, yeah, exactly. And I was like how'd y'all get this? And they were like I don't know, we were just throwing stuff in a bottle and figured we'd see what stuck.
Speaker 3:Three guys hanging around, yeah, exactly, and I was like that'll work.
Speaker 1:I'll take it. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:You got a thing else, dude. I cannot thank you enough. Yeah, I'm honored to have you on and honored to watch what you guys lead and run and see some change down there. It's needed and it's been coming and I'm ready to get y'all off California's radar where the California's the nuttiest place in the world again.
Speaker 1:No doubt I'd be good with that, so I appreciate it, y'all.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. You guys stay safe out there. Be sure you hit our Instagram up. We have a post for a Pistor, the link there to donate. If you do want to donate to assist the family with a terrible tragedy that happened that, that that they hit it up on the on Instagram it's, it's listed right there. You guys stay safe. God bless you and, as always, may God bless Texas. We're out.