Join Caleb Mitchell, the President of the Jefferson County Sheriff's Association of Deputies and Corrections Officers, on a fascinating journey through the world of law enforcement. In this journey, you will explore how small-town policing creates an unbreakable bond and how working in a jailhouse can prepare you for successful street work. Caleb shares the importance of mutual backup and community presence in the law enforcement community. You'll also learn about some unexpected lessons he has learned behind bars that have had a lasting impact on his work.
Additionally, we will delve into the challenges and triumphs of ascending the leadership ladder within a law enforcement association. Caleb talks about the nuances of navigating diverse professional landscapes and the crucial elements to serve and protect – both on the streets and within the ranks of the law enforcement community. Through hurricanes and harrowing experiences, Caleb highlights the importance of steadfast support and community presence, underscoring what it truly means to be a law enforcement professional.
email us at- bluegrit@tmpa.org
Join Caleb Mitchell, the President of the Jefferson County Sheriff's Association of Deputies and Corrections Officers, on a fascinating journey through the world of law enforcement. In this journey, you will explore how small-town policing creates an unbreakable bond and how working in a jailhouse can prepare you for successful street work. Caleb shares the importance of mutual backup and community presence in the law enforcement community. You'll also learn about some unexpected lessons he has learned behind bars that have had a lasting impact on his work.
Additionally, we will delve into the challenges and triumphs of ascending the leadership ladder within a law enforcement association. Caleb talks about the nuances of navigating diverse professional landscapes and the crucial elements to serve and protect – both on the streets and within the ranks of the law enforcement community. Through hurricanes and harrowing experiences, Caleb highlights the importance of steadfast support and community presence, underscoring what it truly means to be a law enforcement professional.
email us at- bluegrit@tmpa.org
You know I have worked those dorms. Uh, I've worked the maximum security, the medium security, the general population dorms. So I mean, I know, I know how shitty it can be. You know, like when you're locked in there, uh, sometimes they're working 12s. You know, when you're locked in there for 12 hours, I mean you do feel like an inmate.
Speaker 3:You've got all these people that you have to represent. Now you got the jail staff dispatch patrol. So what? What led you to jump into the leadership role within the association?
Speaker 4:Hey, blue grit podcast. We were back this week Co's clinic near and Tyler Owen, tyler, oh so what's going on, man?
Speaker 3:How was your drive down? Oh, that's right, you've been down here two days.
Speaker 4:I spend it the night.
Speaker 3:Spend it the night. You were just telling about this cold shower and it's really got me kind of intrigued. I think you said that keeps you juicy during the daytime, but not juicy.
Speaker 4:But so you take a hot bath or a sauna at night and it makes your body cool down afterwards. Right and sleep cool and kind of unwind.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 4:And in the morning you take a cold plunge or a cold shower. At the end in your body throughout the day is trying to heat back up and it releases and orphans and burns fat and it kind of wakes you up. But there's medical, scientific benefits to it in the morning as well.
Speaker 3:I'll be damn off to try that out.
Speaker 4:I mean not that I don't like taking cold showers, but yeah stand out in the yard and have Janet spray you off with cold water. Shit, she'd do, it Do you know, that it's 30 degrees outside.
Speaker 3:Oh, I got to tell the story. I just told them yesterday. So I live in Wembley and I'm running in the morning time the other day and there's there's. Robbie's been to the house and there is. There's not just like whitetail deer in Hays County, there's like an infection of deer.
Speaker 4:So I'm I'm I'm jogging infestation infestation.
Speaker 3:There you go. That's a better word. Sorry, I wasn't, I'm not. I'm not the most well educated.
Speaker 1:So I've got this spot loss.
Speaker 4:I want you right here. Tyler's got a new question.
Speaker 3:I want you guys to envision this.
Speaker 2:I've got this you want to trade spots with me. Oh my God.
Speaker 3:I've got this old ass card heart sweatshirt on, I've got these Walmart shorts he's five year old, hoka uh tennis shoes on and I've got this headlamp. It's a spotlight and a look up and there's this massive buck probably easily a 170 180 class whitetail, and he's snorting. And as I run past him and I'm I'm kind of shocked that he's not running off and as I run past him he falls in behind me and he's he's kind of you know, doing the whole giving you the what's up giving them.
Speaker 4:He was up and he continues to try behind me and I'm just thinking, like in the back of my mind.
Speaker 3:I can see the headlines in Austin, you know, former law enforcement officer or TNPA, whatever attacked, sexually assaulted, but whitetail, and it just scared me. And you guys, the nice coworkers at your arm, maybe feel, you know, not nice about it. That was our conversation. He'd probably never seen something like that. Oh, I guarantee he had one headlight, I'd like the wallflower song.
Speaker 2:One headlight and a guy in tights running down the road in the dark in the morning oh shit To your body where the deer touched you, at when that deer hurt you, yeah, where the deer hurt you. On the next episode.
Speaker 3:Anyway, well, man, we got some guests on the day our field wrap from the Southeast Texas, the golden triangle. Now that you just insulted me, I don't know how I want to introduce you, but Robbie Campbell is in the house. Robbie, welcome back to the blue grid stage.
Speaker 2:Thanks, it's great to be here and I didn't mean to really hurt your feelings when I know I really didn't.
Speaker 3:It's fine. It's fine, I'm used to it and Clint's used to it. Well, you guys kind of conspired on that one, so the hell with both of you, but anyway, go ahead, you teed it up, we just hit it. You're right, you're right, I did.
Speaker 4:Robbie Campbell from the golden triangle likes to be called the golden boy. The golden boy from golden triangle. I like that's what he went by in his wrestling days.
Speaker 2:We went to go to talk about the wrestling days guys. It was fun. Went last Speaking of men in tights.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Robbie. Robbie Nebrae the Nacho Libre.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, robbie tell us who we got on. Today, brother, we have Caleb Mitchell with Jefferson County Sheriff's Association over there. I mean, Caleb, my friends, it's been a few years now I guess two or three years now always kind of known about each other. When I worked at Balmont he worked at Jeff County and now he's been the president for two years yeah, going on, Yep the president of the other Sheriff's Association and he's up for election now. I think you drew one opponent, but we won't talk about that because I think you're going to be just fine where you're at, I think so too, I'm loving that Yep, you can vote for Calebcom.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this political I paid for by and approved.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Welcome on brother.
Speaker 1:Appreciate it, man. Thank you all for having me here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I want to ask that he drive the Euro with Robbie. Yeah, any, any given option Any complaints?
Speaker 1:Yeah, he just told me to keep quiet about it.
Speaker 2:I'm looking out for you. Good, I'm glad you listened.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Okay, good, keep your eyes closed Don't just we'll be there in a little bit If you need help, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, for those that don't know, beaumont, or Jefferson County is actually the county where Beaumont resides in. That's the Beaumont's, the county seat of Jefferson County. Let's dive off to where you grew up and talk about you.
Speaker 1:Well, I grew up in Needlewood, which is a. It's a smaller town outside of Beaumont which is kind of the area they call Mid County. You have Needlewood, portnaceous and Grose which is in between. You got Beaumont, port Arthur and then in between that they call that Mid County. Went to school there. Started working at Jefferson County jail when I was 19,. Worked there for about 11 months Uh wasn't for me and put in for the academy there at Lamar and went to the academy, got hired on it Needlewood police department. Worked there about two years, a little over two years uh. Then applied at Jefferson County. Been there about eight years now.
Speaker 3:Now need needlewood. Sits inside Jefferson County right. Correct so you probably had interaction with Jeff's coach.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I always had interactions with those guys. Uh, you know, uh, highway interdiction was kind of always my my goal. When I first got into it, you know, I was working in a, you know, in a in a smaller city. You know we didn't have a lot of cross country highways where you're going to come across that kind of stuff, and that's that's really what I always wanted to get into. Uh, and I knew that Jefferson County, you know, for years they've been known for having a pretty good, you know, group interdiction guys. You know we had it in uh 90 and 73. And that was really the main reason that I wanted to go to the county.
Speaker 3:And we've talked about this in the podcast, for Clint brought it up the rule enforcement for the listeners that don't either reside in Texas or do reside in Texas and don't live in a rural area, the bond that the rural Texas small towns have, the small town police officers, yep and the counties and DPS game wardens. You can't I can't even describe really how that is. Clint worked at a very large department in the Metroplex up in up in Dallas. I worked for a decent size agency in in central East Texas and you worked at Beaumont. But even even outside of that man it's, it's almost like having like five different agencies in one county with nobody. I mean y'all. There'll be five different agencies on one call.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we had that, uh the night before New Year's when, uh, beaumont had that, uh, that big party that got out of control. Um, they call it for you know, all agencies and I mean we showed up, dps showed up, lumberton showed up, hardin County showed up I was a party then. Yeah, yeah Uh, and in mid county where I worked, uh, needle and poor nature's and groves, they're all give or take around 20,000 people each, uh, each city, but they're all in the same radio, same cat system. So we're, it's pretty much like one agency, you know, like if we were.
Speaker 1:If we were bogged down with calls, poor nature's would come take our calls for us. If poor nature's was bogged down, groves would take them. You know, we were pretty much just like one agency. We would just help each other out.
Speaker 3:It's touch on that, clint, because you worked at Garland, I mean and I'm not saying that the Garland officers themselves certainly wouldn't go over to Mesquite and do it, because you and I both know the brotherhood is there. But you and I know both, but we both know that the red tape wouldn't allow that to happen. So kind of explain.
Speaker 4:Well, and it's just. You only know what you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And uh, worked at the jail in Plano briefly, two and a half years and then went to Garland and you know, in patrol and Garland you may go a couple of years without interacting with another agency, just because you just don't cross paths.
Speaker 4:If if we had a major accident, we called the motor jocks out and they worked it. I mean, there was just really. We just never interacted and it wasn't because we wouldn't, or there just was never an occasion unless you happened to. You know, like 635 is our border with Dallas. If there was a wreck up there, dallas squad may stop by. Hey, is this y'all's or ours or you know whatever? Okay, cool, see you later.
Speaker 4:But it's just cool and being in this role, seeing how much you interact and getting to know people around, the statement it's just super cool. And I think the downside of being at a big department is you don't you're not forfeited the opportunity to, you're not afforded the opportunity to see that. Because if I ran into guys from other agencies, hell, I just don't even know them enough to interact and like I'm in tight with a bunch of the game wardens and they're like, yeah, we know everybody around there because they either may need us or we're going to need them and sooner or later we're all going to need each other and that's a. It's a really, really cool missed opportunity at big agencies. Yeah, and most game wardens and I love my game wardens.
Speaker 3:Everybody loves game wardens out there. It's like they wanted to do a little bit of hunting, a little bit of hunting, policing kind of, but they are really the best street cops for whatever reason. Or game wardens, and I don't know why that is. But they love getting involved with city shit, county, county calls and I don't know why that is.
Speaker 4:I got some good ones down there.
Speaker 1:Mike, oh yeah, he's a legend Um there's a couple down there.
Speaker 2:Mike retired. He went to work for the special Rangers.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Southwest Texas cattle ranger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:But you you've had some really good, um, some really good guys down there.
Speaker 2:We had a good discussion about game boards on the way up here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, personally, uh, when I'm out doing hunting, you know I'm not, I'm not friends with them.
Speaker 2:but whenever I'm at work, you know, yeah, we're all good, we're good man, but yeah, that's funny. Stop doing the outlaw hunt and make friends with them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah we talked about that too. We do. Some people I don't do outlaw hunting, though, so our fishing, I know people that do.
Speaker 3:but I got to tell this funny story about a game ward. It was a game warden when I first started out at Jefferson PD. Uh, I was a 21 year old, really kind of just a naive moron. Uh two stories. I walked out of the jail and this was a guy named Rick Lane, but he's grown now he's well, maybe, and so, uh, the statute of limitations are up and Rick's now retired.
Speaker 3:But I walked out of the jail and this is Jefferson, texas, so it's a town or population of the county. He's like 10,000. And I've got my uniform. Starts with stay flow, so you could you could literally cut paper on my pants right, walk out of the jail and this game, this game warden said man, that's a nice Glock 22. It's a standard issue? I'm like damn sure is, and I kind of moved my hip over to where I'm showing them my oh, you get that out there.
Speaker 3:And he said, let me take a look at that.
Speaker 4:That's what he did to that buck when he was just young.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, I kind of, you know, moved my hip over so I could show this Glock 22 and Rick, rick grab it. Now this is the same pistol that he's got on his hip right and it's a Glock, standard Glock. And so he grabs his Glock and at that time, jefferson PD, we had to buy our own ammo. So, like I was making 21,000, 21,000 dollars a year, he takes his pistol and fires all 15 rounds at the backside of the sheriff's office and said, damn, it shoots good, hands it to me and walks and get this truck and drives off. And I was like, well, thank you, sir, I appreciate that Now I got to go buy 15 rounds. Fast forward. Three months later I walk out of my house and I see these two dogs and it was right after the Michael Vic dog fighting situation. And so I was mortified because I saw these two dogs and I was trying to. It looked like they were tied or tails were tied together, and I was from Dallas and I I get, I was naive, I was completely naive and so drunk.
Speaker 4:What do you solve?
Speaker 3:No, no, no no, I was on duty Right, I was a Jefferson cop. And back to your point about being on one channel Jefferson PD, dps we're all the same channels two o'clock in the morning. So I run up to this dog and I'm trying to, I'm trying to help it and I'm, and again, all of our hearts are pouring out yeah.
Speaker 3:And every time I run up to this dog it would run off and the other one would cry I'm like Jesus Christ, this is horrible. And I'm like I'm missing my tea. I've got the Sarah McLaughlin song playing on my background so I get on the radio. On the radio, because we don't have cell phones at the time, and I said, uh, county up, just 15,. Oh, whatever, 15, 18, is he out tonight? And he goes yeah, what you got? I said I got these two dogs and her tails are tied together. And he said 10, 10, nine, which is repeat, and I repeated that. Looking back on it now, man, he did me wrong, wrong, wrong. He says we're, what's your 20?. I said I'm at my, I'm at my residence. And he said I'll be there shortly. And he laughed for a solid hour. Oh, that's forever. For now, my one of my nicknames in these Texas is now two dogs, and so oh, you're never going to live, oh yeah, but it's a funny story and now everybody knows it.
Speaker 3:But uh, yeah, it's game wardens Got a. They got a great sense of humor. Great guys, great bunch of guys.
Speaker 4:Make your native American name two dogs, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, well, all right, two dogs, angels envy Tied me not.
Speaker 2:I just can't. I was trying to imagine two dogs tails tied together and not.
Speaker 3:I'm not sure what I was thinking. I've heard of two cats. We've all worked patrol at two o'clock in the morning and you kind of get that like delirious side effect, you know what.
Speaker 2:I'm saying Well, I thought I saw a big foot one night running behind the DPS office.
Speaker 3:There you go. Yeah, so you can't have a single headlight.
Speaker 4:This thing was like eight foot tall.
Speaker 2:Hey, hey, hey, hey, no Okay.
Speaker 3:No, no, all right, so we're back. Yeah, we're back. Sorry about the rabbit trail. So, you're at Jefferson County. You've been there eight years. Eight years, yeah, I want to backtrack a minute.
Speaker 4:You said you worked at the jail for a while and you realized that wasn't your thing. We talk a lot on here. We have a lot of guests on that at working the jail Was it? Was it the challenges you face working in the jail? Was it you spend enough time there to realize the same my thing I want to go be a street officer. What was it about the jail that that you realized, yeah, I'm out?
Speaker 1:Uh, I guess you know I was just excited to be there when I was 19. You know, we got to wear you know the little whatever jailer uniform and my one pair of cuffs and radio. You know, I thought I was, you know LAPD walking in there, um, but after about four or five months, you, you're pretty much, you are an inmate. You, you live there for eight hours. You know, you're locked in the dorm. Uh, I guess you have. You can freely exit the door if you wanted, but you're, you're pretty much, an inmate for eight hours a day. And it just after a while. Just the stationary of sitting there and watching these 60 grown men watch TV and play cards, it just uh, that wasn't for me.
Speaker 3:And I think that's your point, now that you and we're going to fast forward and kind of backtrack, now that you represent Jefferson County Sheriff's Association and now that you're the leadership and you represent that very job right, and you represent that very job, that probably gives you more respect for those positions of what they actually go through, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Touch on that. Uh, yeah, it's for a lot of the guys that are on the Ellie side, but you know that's all they've done. Like they came out of the academy, came straight to Ellie instead of working corrections before they went to the academy.
Speaker 1:It's a? Uh, it's definitely a perspective. You know, cause a lot of guys in the early light man, all they do is just you sit there and listen to 48, you know, if it's medium security, it's 48, or if it's minimum at 60, you know you're just sitting there watching these guys play dominoes and cards and watching TV, which, yes, that is a good chunk of the job. But I mean I've been in some pretty nasty situations in the gym. I mean, uh, growing up, you know I grew up going to church, didn't cuss. You know I'd had going around my parents, let me around church going folk my whole life. Uh, I'd never. Really I didn't know bad people existed besides Stevie. You know, I didn't even know that was real.
Speaker 1:So here I am, this little choir boy, when I go in the jail, and this guy kept slamming his dominoes on the table and that's like a rule there, you don't do that. And so my FTO that I had for two weeks, uh, he goes. Hey, tell that guy take me to the table. I said, uh, sir, you know, do you mind just taking your feet off the table? And he just kind of looks at me like kiss my ass, dude. And he goes back to watching TV and slamming his dominoes and uh, he's like you can't talk to people like that.
Speaker 4:And he said was that too firm?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was like I was confused by that he's like no, you got to make these people think that you're one inch away from being in there in the bunk next to him and I was like man, man, you can talk to people like that and he explodes on this guy like, threatens him with an inch of his life for slamming a domino. And that's when I realized like oh man like you got to be violent. You know, and that's you know. I started saying more bad words. My mom said you know.
Speaker 3:She said that job has turned you into, you know an animal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and me being my innocent little choir boy self at 19 in that 11 months I was at the jail was a. It changed my entire life, you ended up on the prayer list. Yeah, exactly, exactly, well, exactly.
Speaker 4:We have a lot of non-LE listeners and you know what he's referring to. In our role we can't treat everybody like they're you know a lifelong convict. But in dealing with some of these people who've been in and out of jail and in and out of prison their entire life, if you come up meek and mild, and please sir, please sir, they're going to, they're going to eat you alive. And sometimes some of these people, the only thing they understand, because they're a very powerful, lived a rough life person is somebody that mirrors that. That comes across as very growth and it's not going to take crap off of you and so you can't, you can't, walk lightly through a pod and baby and will you please, please, in in in, baby, I'm like children, or you're going to get eaten alive in there. Yeah, wouldn't play. When, when I was going with about working in the jail, we talk about it a lot on here. Looking back now, in the jail, you're required to, especially at 19,.
Speaker 4:I started in the jail when I was 19 or 20. You have to learn a lot of life skills like how to communicate, deescalate, read body language, figure out when you're being scammed, conned and lied to. You think it was helpful now looking back those eight or nine months spent immersed in the convict life.
Speaker 1:I think about that a lot because even as a rookie patrol officer I still thinking back about all these. I think about all the interactions I had when I first hit the road, about how many people got over on me where I didn't know it then but with the training I have now I'm like dude, that guy probably had five pounds of cocaine and it's, you know, and I believed him. But I think back. If I had not worked at the jail before I went to LA, I can't imagine. I mean they would have took me to the cleaners because I never was around. You know I had a really good childhood. You know, very stable home. I was never around. Like lying who lies to the cops.
Speaker 3:You know that's not allowed.
Speaker 1:You can't do that. So when I first went into the jail and those guys you know I'd be at the desk and you know if you know anything about working in the jail, there's always one guy that's up there to distract you. They send him to the desk to call him.
Speaker 1:Man, that's where you get them boots. Man, you know, they're Nike police boots. That was pretty cool. And while they're doing that, there's two guys with the pilot light and the dryer smoking weed. So, looking back at the beginning of my jail, you know they did that all the time. They'd send the guy out there like man, do you've been working out, or man you know, totally fluffing you up, while they're back there giving tattoos and, uh, as I caught onto that, it really did give me a good head start, I think whenever I got on the street that had I not done that would have been a huge disadvantage, cool.
Speaker 4:Yep, yep, yep. I think it's super important and we've talked on here several times about people with background in the jail or have gone and spent some time like in dispatch. I worked at Plano and folks would stay frustrated at times with dispatch and BuddyMind was getting unlimited overtime over there. I was like, well, I'm going to go there and suck up some unlimited dispatch over time. I spent about four, not even four minutes.
Speaker 4:I spent less than four minutes on evenings at the NCIC console with headphones on and she was trying to and I could not can type pretty good and probably two minutes into hey, can you check one? Hey, is my record in route? How come my record in here? Hey, where's the? Did you not public service this homeowner? I mean, just I got up. I was like I'm done with this bullshit I had there and I said, is this batch? She goes. No, it's actually pretty slow. I was like, no, I'm not doing this, I can't do this. I mean I think those jail experiences, dispatch experience and seeing really gives you an insight when you, when you go to patrol huge.
Speaker 3:Well, and it's also like a really interesting asset or aspect of the different facets of all the law enforcement. There's so many careers within law enforcement itself and shout out to dispatch because we don't talk about them enough, we don't give you guys enough credit. You guys really are the silent heroes. You guys don't get the accolades you should. So right here, right now, let's call it out what it is. Thank y'all so much. You've saved my life many times. I damn sure know y'all saved everybody in here. So thank y'all so much. But law enforcement's got so many. You've got the jail, you've got dispatch, you've got patrol, you've got CID and that's kind of what's cool about where you work at and the organization that you are the president of is because you represent all those and that's not really. There's not a whole lot of that, even at like a local municipality association. Does Beaumont have a jail?
Speaker 2:No, we used to, but they turn into a museum and we just take people to Jefferson County.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah. So like, where we're your leadership role right now, you've got a pretty big role and responsibility in that. And what, what led you to kind of get involved with that? Because, again, you've got, you've got all these people that you have to represent. Now you got the jail staff, dispatch patrol. So what, what led you to jump into the leadership role within the association?
Speaker 1:I started off as a board member. I think in 2018 is one of our first ran for an executive board spot. How ours is kind of lined up we have four at least board members, four corrections, and then we have treasurer, secretary, vice president, president. So I was a board member for about three and a half four years and I just kind of wanted to get involved. You know, I'd heard you know that's who does like fundraisers and you know when we have officers like their house burns down, you know they help raise money for. You know clothes and at Christmas, you know give out bikes, all that. So I've always really liked doing stuff that is involved in the community. So that's why I got involved with it and we had a president spot open up and I guess I just had an out of body experience and wanted to do that job.
Speaker 2:You never knew what you were going into. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But Robbie here and Layton, they've both believe it or not. Layton helped me too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, wow. Yeah, yeah, they've really been a client here, layton Gannery. By the way, our other Southeast Texas fill rep, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:They give me a lot, of, a lot of guidance. When I got into the president's spot, I really had no clue what to do.
Speaker 3:None, I don't think anybody does when they jump in. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:You wake up and now you're getting 30 phone calls from hey someone's. I was picking on me. Hey, he didn't approve my time off. He, he made fun of my what color my personal car is and I don't like. You know you get all the complaints. You know as the president, you know you're the fix all you know they and you know you got to explain to people that it's for contract breaches only, like if it breaches contract, you know then I can help, but if it's like a personal issue I can't. But I've enjoyed it. It's been a good learning experience. I think it's kind of helped me learn how to manage, I guess, conflict between people. But Robbie's been a huge help, huge help with me.
Speaker 3:What is your current role at the sheriff's office?
Speaker 1:Uh, a sergeant on patrol. Okay, I just went back to midnight patrol.
Speaker 3:And you don't have to answer this if you don't want to, but I saw it, so did Clint and I'm sure Robbie did too. But how immediate was it after he became the president of the association and you had people in other leadership roles within this, within your department kind of come to you and say, hey, I need your advice on this. It's almost like an overnight, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah it it was really. I went from being, uh, I felt what I felt like was a piece of neon Uh, I can't, nobody listen to me, you know. And then you know to have somebody that was higher, and so Jordan and me like, hey, uh, what do you think about if we do the? You know, talking all these crazy percentages, and when we crunch this down and we extend the percentage out over this and I'm like dude, y'all, y'all don't know. I'm still figuring this job out, but a lot of people did like they automatically thought you know, union president, this guy knows what's going on.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, fake it till you make.
Speaker 3:It is kind of the name of the game with me sometimes.
Speaker 1:But uh, like I said, I would, anytime I would have something I didn't understand. Robbie's always been a good guy to explain it, you know. You know how good he is at talking. Uh, he stopped.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Stop, yeah, he, he's pretty good at it, so he's, he's helped me too, but uh, yeah, it's been a big learning curve, but I think it's, uh, it's turning out better.
Speaker 4:Good, let's, let's be here Becoming president overnight. It's like becoming CID overnight.
Speaker 3:Yes, exactly, that's a great way.
Speaker 4:I was on. Uh, I was in patrol on Friday. I go to CID on Monday. The same lieutenant who had no use for me on Friday because I was a complete idiot patrolman is calling me Monday. My first name is CID. I need to bounce something off of you. We got a stolen tractor trailer and two in custody and we got stolen property in three different cities and we recovered the trailer different location from the tractor. What do you want us to do out here? And I'm like well, I'm pretty sure yesterday I was a freaking idiot that you wouldn't even talk to me. I didn't even talk to you and now you're. You're calling me and I actually know the same amount of nothing today as I did yesterday.
Speaker 2:That's a good comparison though.
Speaker 4:You're right.
Speaker 2:When you get promoted up to CID and all of a sudden you inherit 20 cases and you got people calling you. And when you show up on scene, sergeants and lieutenants are like, hey, this is your scene now, yeah, like well, yesterday I was, I was one of your guys on perimeter over there, you know, blocking traffic.
Speaker 4:I had to ask you to go potty yesterday, yeah.
Speaker 2:And being president. When you get like president, it's like a magic wand you get wanded overnight. Oh, I know, Now you have all the all the answers to all the questions. I know.
Speaker 3:And there's a lot of responsibility with that, because you could take that and run with it and get bigheaded, and that's where the negativity and that's where the bad decision making comes and that's where you see a lot of bad leadership come within associations or really, quite honestly, departments. The same thing applies with department leadership as it does with association leadership and the both are very parallel, and I don't give a damn what anybody says about that.
Speaker 4:But I think your grounded leadership probably goes back to what you're talking about the lifestyle that you were raised in, the humbled Christian good person take care of people, treat others how you'd want to be treated. That, in addition to your experience in the jail, has probably been a couple of good factors for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it is Cause you know, sometimes if we have, you know, a corrections person, that's our president and they haven't worked in law enforcement. You know there's kind of like a disconnect. I mean you can kind of, you know, get to know the guys and understand how things work. But I think it really is a. It has been a big help that you know I have worked those dorms. I've worked the maximum security, the medium security, the general population dorms. So I mean I know, I know how shitty it can be.
Speaker 1:You know, like, when you're locked in there sometimes they're working 12s you know when you're locked in there for 12 hours, I mean you do feel like an inmate. You know you can't I call them patrol. You know if you want to go eat, I mean, hey, you only got me to chillies and you can't If you live, you know if your house is in the jurisdiction, you know, like, just swing by the house. You kind of have that freedom. You know if you want to go eat, if you, if you got time to go meet with your wife or is in the jail, you're in there. Yeah, you know what you guys, what you got, it's coming. It's like when you're at school as a kid you know there's no leaving.
Speaker 1:You know they're kind of bound to where they're at.
Speaker 4:What are some of the biggest challenges that you've faced or the associations faced? What are some things you've had to try and tackle or learn or adjust to during your time?
Speaker 1:I really wanted to kind of get the communication good between our corrections and law enforcement people, just so they could help understand it. Yeah, we each have a job to do and we're on the same team and we got to do this thing together. It's not a competition.
Speaker 4:We're all on the same team, yeah.
Speaker 1:We're going to get the same. You know our contract and all that. So that's been a thing and really just trying to get our representation better in our service that we're paying for monthly to make that better, and that's just been something I've been striving for, I guess for the past year and a half to try to get our our service better for our association.
Speaker 4:Customer service or legal representation, or is there some specific issue that's been a challenge about who, who that issue?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really been a really since I've taken over as president is whenever I kind of acknowledged there was a problem. You know, when I started noticing how much money we're paying in dues per year you know pretty significant amount and not knowing who our liaison was to speak with after I became president.
Speaker 1:And you're not talking about late and Robbie, no, no, no, no, no, it's the other organization. So when I started realizing the one, I guess the guy that was our rep previously he would show up to maybe two meetings a year We'd have our yearly crawfish bowl and we have a Christmas party that's like our two big inter association parties we have for our members would never show up. So I kind of started wondering, like what are we? What are these guys? What is their job? And I like, what are they if we're paying all this money, like I understand, yes, when we have a critical incident, that's what it's for. But there's got to be something more. Like surely they get involved at a local level? And we had some local agencies, like the agency I used to work for need one. They recently, I guess a couple of years ago, joined TMPA.
Speaker 1:I think four Nages TMPA and yeah gross and I started talking to those guys about the service they were getting with TMPA and I was like we're not getting that, you know, we're not getting that at all. So that's really something I've been striving with is to really, I guess, spread the information of TMPA, because I've seen how good the service is compared to other people.
Speaker 4:So I went through similar when, when I was on the board in the leadership role at Garland, we were with a different organization. We couldn't get help, we couldn't get attorneys to show up. We couldn't get attorneys. Sometimes they just wouldn't show up at all. Sometimes it would be hours and hours. Well, I was working police shootings I can't stand around and wait on a lawyer for five hours. And we pulled, we pulled our association 340 people, 330 or 40, 50 people out of another affiliation and put them, moved them to TMPA. Well then I'd get called out to work a police shooting and the lawyer would beat me to it. And I'm like that's how it's supposed to be. The lawyer should be out there in a time, or they ought to at least be communicating hey, I'm in route. I'm 30 minutes out driving to get to you. But it was a drastic swing in the customer service, yeah, like literally overnight. It was a drastic change, yeah.
Speaker 1:And with our I'm not not to name, I'm not naming names or anything, but there was a a field rep that I met with right whenever I got into the president role. We're talking pretty recent, within the last year yeah, pretty recent. Non non TMPA field rep.
Speaker 4:Yeah, non TMPA.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, right after I became president, kind of just get a feel of like you know, meet them, like hey, this is what you know I'm kind of looking to do with our association. This is kind of why I've got it in this role and said pretty much like I want you know representation on our local level a little bit better. Yes, I understand that when stuff hits the fan, that's what you know our affiliation is there for. But we're having fundraisers and local things. When we do benefits or like our crawfish bowl that we do for our members, you're not like to just come out and meet the people, like come out and help, you know. Just you ain't got to do a whole lot, just come out there and meet the people so they can know who you are represent.
Speaker 2:Yeah exactly.
Speaker 3:And I think that's the foundation of that.
Speaker 1:job title right, and then a representative yeah, you would think, and I get told after saying that, that it's not our job to sell hot dogs and hamburgers. That's the local association's job, that's not our job. So anything at the local level that's not our job, that's not our responsibility. And so that's kind of what I realized, that I needed to find something better. You know, I do get it, that's what you know. It's for legal representation, but the amount of money we're paying y'all, I think we deserve a little bit more. Like in the meantime, when nothing's going on, I mean we should still be getting service because we're still paying money Drop by and say hi, yeah, occasionally something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'll give you a good example of I got really I guess Hurricane Harvey is really when I got turned on to TMPA is 2017. Yeah, we, you know storms going crazy, you know peat copter without socks, toiletries and all that. Well, layton shows up at Portland HSPD with a trailer, you know, full of toiletries, socks, things you need, you know, during hurricane you're on hurricane duty and so people from agencies that were not affiliated with TMPA were getting to go and you know, get stuff and just providing it to whoever, not just people affiliated with TMPA. That that was really a big impact for me to see that TMPA was willing to even non-affiliated agencies were able to.
Speaker 1:you know they were providing for those guys just doing the right thing, so that was really a big impact on.
Speaker 4:What Caleb is talking about is our disaster response or emergency response team, and we go to tornadoes, hurricanes, West Texas fires. We go to all of that stuff and I can tell you, man, my proudest moment to work for team PA Harvey. I've never been around hurricane. I'm from North Texas. I'm scared snotless of hurricanes. I've just never been there.
Speaker 1:They're fun.
Speaker 4:I've never been around them. So they call and said, hey, emergency response teams is rolling and we're all going to meet in Victoria, like cool. So I get in the TMPA truck with a trailer, I'm heading to Victoria and somewhere north of Victoria I drive into it. I'm used to driving into rain, I'm not used to. It's scared the hell out of me. So I drive through it. We get into Victoria, we stage.
Speaker 4:One of the challenges that that we learn quickly is you got to be self sufficient when you arrive or you just become a burden. So, like we have to, we bring plenty of fuel for ourselves, food or housing, we bring travel trailer or whatever to be self sustained. So then we don't become a burden to y'all because we're trying to support y'all. But day two we get up and I don't know that area in detail, but we go somewhere south of Victoria, out in a super rural area.
Speaker 4:There's a command, there's a. We're trying to find a big command post, a regional command post. We're kind of driving around and calling contacts trying to find it. We have a bunch of hot food and a bunch of gear. Well, they local tells us, say it's down that gravel road. So we get on the gravel road where there's a Tahoe that I guess has been rolled across the field or during the storm and it's almost like a ball. It's rounded and they're using it as a barricade to block the road and there's about a they look like he's 16 year old deputy standing out there soaking wet in uniform, standing there, man in the barricade. We pull up the team and I said hey, man, command post appears like yes, sir, it's, you can go on by. I said you okay, no, sir, and I said family, your house, okay, I don't know. I've been on duty for 30 something hours. I don't know if my family's good. And I said your house, I don't know it's going to make me upset.
Speaker 4:I said you don't know if your family's okay, if your house is still in there. No, sir, I've been at work since it hit and I said, okay, well, we, we were supposed to give out like a pair of underwear and a pair of socks. And I said do you have any dry socks? Do you have any dry underwear, dry under shirts? No, sir, I said do you want some? He starts blubbering. You have dry socks I could put on. I'm like Holy shit.
Speaker 4:So I just started handing him cases of socks and he's standing there balling because I have dry socks and dry underwear. And I thought, dude, you're at a bad point in your life when you're crying over a pair of socks. You would have thought I was giving him a million dollars. Yeah. And I realized at that moment you know cops, cops and firemen, everybody else is taking care of their own home and their family. This guy's been on duty, he told me, been on duty like 30 something or 40 something hours. Yeah, had no clue if his house, he had somewhere to go home to, if his family was still alive. Standing in the middle of the road blubbering over a pair of socks, I thought, as bad as that is, that's my proudest moment to be in TMP in 13 years is at least I was able to hand that, that kid a pair of dry socks and some dry under clothes to try and put on in that moment. And I'm like man, a lot of that 's that's affecting, that's that's helping people.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, that was definitely the first start of TMP for me. Seeing late and do, that was the huge impact that wanted me to steer the direction towards TMP. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And that's just one story of me, because all of them I mean pretty much, yeah, no, no.
Speaker 4:I wouldn't take my horn on that. No, no, no no, no, yeah, but seeing somebody probably the lowest point ever in their life and seeing a grown man kind of repair dry socks. I'm like we're actually helping somebody today.
Speaker 3:But to your point about helping somebody and affecting change, that's exactly what you were doing that day is affecting change. You saw it in Portnacius, which is I don't know how far that is from Victoria. Yep, but that's the point. Is that mission itself of Hurricane Harvey and what we were doing down there? You know, that's the mission, that's the mission of TMP and that's what. This isn't an association, and I preach this all the time. This is not an association. This is a big ass family and that's the least the way that I view it and I tell people that that's just the way it is, and I think our field reps that's how they push it and that's how they you see it in their work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I. That's what I went and talked to the jail staff and hey, I want you to join our family.
Speaker 2:You're not joining the association or organization. You're joining a family of 33,000 members across the state, where our services are better, or full service association. We are full service family or brothers. If you need socks or if you need to help with a contract or if you get a critical incident or any custody, death or whatever it is, we're going to be there. Just don't show up when shit goes bad. We want to celebrate the officer's good times. You know the bad times and if you need anything, you know you can call us. It's like everybody.
Speaker 2:When I went and talked to the jail staff and I'm going to get on this for a second I asked them if they know their current field rep with your current association over there and they all said no and I told them the guy's name. They didn't know it and I said but you know who I am and you're never going to forget me because I'm going to keep coming back and I want to keep coming back and if you don't join or not, you're still going to see me in the house. I'm still going to be there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really just I wanted involvement. You know, I feel like we deserve more than just when we need you, like, yeah, be there when we need you to for a phone call, but you know, in the meantime there should be something. You know, I think more, and just around the TPA guys and the Redman up here has been great. I mean they're all great guys. It's get a good vibe with the NPA. You know, like when you talk to them you get traded like you've been known for 20 years and you know that's. I've been nothing but impressed with the NPA.
Speaker 3:Well, your standard. If it's Rob East, then we good.
Speaker 2:He had to figure it out my bad spot.
Speaker 3:Maybe not his leg shakes when he's crashed the back of his knee. But we'll get that next.
Speaker 2:All my skills are in the closet yeah.
Speaker 3:But yeah, so uh, man, I you know, I don't think we have anything else.
Speaker 4:Uh, yeah, I want to hit on um crazy story you shared. Oh yeah, no, tell us about um. Was it 2018? Yeah, 19, the day before Thanksgiving 2019.
Speaker 1:Yeah, uh, I guess it was probably around midnight, one in the morning. Uh, this was when I was still a, uh, a grade one deputy and uh, my buddy from Port Nature's PD hits me up and our schedule is aligned. He's like hey, man, you working. I say yeah, yeah, so let's go meet up. We had a little hidden spot off the highway where we could kind of back into a covered area and we'd meet up, usually at nighttime, after it slowed down and uh, he's on one side.
Speaker 3:Were you non listeners? That means like bullshit and talk yeah, yeah, no, no, no, no, yeah, we're going to.
Speaker 1:This is where we go and, uh, hang out once the radio slows down and, um, there's a it's kind of like an industrial highway down there in Port Nature's where, if you're familiar with there that's, there's already a lot of refineries.
Speaker 1:But this particular road is, uh, it's called pure Atlantic road and it's it's a gauntlet of refineries. So, growing up in mid County, you know, as a kid you always hear the rumors of, like man, if one blows up, they're all blowing up. And this little stretch of road you always think like this would be the worst spot to be in if a plant did explode, because you're surrounded by them and there's nothing but refineries. And so on one side of this refinery, uh, my buddy he, you know, he's backed up in the, in the woodline, uh, with his back of his patrol car, is facing this refinery and I'm going towards it to go meet him. I have to drive in front of it and as I get, probably I guess, about 200 yards from the refinery, it's to my left. You know, if you know the, uh, the exhaust flame stacks that shoot a fire out, for it's like waste product. Uh, it was, it was pretty big the flame. Uh, man, that's, that's pretty big, you know, that's a pretty big bigger than normal.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's very normal, but nothing out of the ordinary.
Speaker 1:Then it gets really big, like never seen it that big in my you know, 28 years of living in Southeast Texas. And then it just sucked back down into the pipe like that. I'm like, oh man, that ain't good. And immediately kaboom, fireball into the clouds, shockwave, it cracks my windshield on my patrol car. Yeah, and I'm thinking, you know I'm not even going to have like a cool story of my. You know how I died the line of duty. I got blown off the road by an exploding refinery.
Speaker 4:So it wasn't just the pipe that exploded, it was the refinery.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, they had had buildup of old product in a part of the refinery that they should have, uh, maintained that they weren't. It was building up, building up over time and it finally pressurized enough to where it's butadiene is what it was and exploded. And we didn't know if there was a a missile strike from Russia. We didn't know what was going on. It was that devastating. Oh yeah, uh, there was a fire station and a credit union to my left.
Speaker 1:When does just completely blown out of it? And the only thing I was thinking of is you know if I'll care if my skin burns off or lose my hearing? Uh, I just shielded my eyes and just hit the brakes as hard as I could. You know, I didn't want to lose my sight. I slammed the brakes and, without even looking, just slapped the thing in the reverse and just stomped. It, turned the wheel, went the other way. There was like a kind of a secondary explosion I'm just waiting at any moment just to get evaporated as I'm driving away. And so we had all hands on deck. People are coming in that are off. All the agencies, like we're breaking into the school's bus barn to get buses to get people out of the neighborhoods.
Speaker 1:And uh, it was. It was uh Interesting. It was so cha we all thought we were dead. You know our lieutenants, like don't need to be knocking on doors, and like 800 foot, you know fireball and we're like dude, we're about to get wiped out knocking on these people's doors and you know some people. We knock on their door and they'd answer. See the huge flame.
Speaker 2:Hey y'all got to get out of here, we, I'm trying to sleep and it's my day off slam door Shut up. We're talking with.
Speaker 3:That was it what two, three o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was pretty funny how some people they they reacted how you would think like, oh gosh, we need to get out of here, and some people were like, leave me alone. Did you imagine?
Speaker 2:that could just as easily happen at two or three o'clock in the afternoon. Sure, that road's very busy.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of businesses around there. A little league baseball park, it's, yeah, 200 feet from it.
Speaker 2:The Portniches Grove high school. High school is right there behind it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, they're going to be in kids and damage there.
Speaker 2:That could have been devastating, I mean sure.
Speaker 1:Cause that at at rush hour, that it's full of cars from people getting off working through refineries, Like that, it could have been really bad it it really did happen at the best time, Cause you know there's kids playing in the city park, the city libraries, right there, you know there could have been a high school football game going on and who knows, who knows what can happen. So it was, it was kind of at the best time possible, but yeah there was except for you driving by yeah.
Speaker 1:I was the one guy that had to be driving right in front of it.
Speaker 2:Well, his car video got circulated so much I think it was on like national news and shared all over the world. Yep, and I didn't know. I'm like this poor cop man. How lucky is he, you know? And I found out today. Well, this morning it was Caleb.
Speaker 1:It was his car.
Speaker 2:It was his video.
Speaker 1:If you could. Only I wish there was, cause it's it's after the fact, so that's it's purely video. It's no audio. It's probably a good thing, cause if you could probably heard what I said whenever it happened, it probably wouldn't be able to be played on the news. Your mom would be upset with it, she would have. Yeah, it wouldn't have been good. It wouldn't have been good. Yeah, I wasn't hearing for about four hours after that had my ears ringing, but yeah.
Speaker 4:You said you recall watching the blast wave go across the street.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and when I can, I'll show you all the video and you can see in front of me the highway. You see the trees all you know fold back and you see the shock wave go across the highway in front of my unit yeah. And it I mean, I'm not sure, probably about 40 to 50 feet is where the initial shock wave stopped. You can see it in the air moving across the ground and stopped for it. For it, you know, got to my Tahoe but who knows, probably could have flipped me off the road.
Speaker 2:I'm sure it would have flipped you off the road.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, yes. So the scariest moment of my law enforcement career really wasn't even like criminal related at all.
Speaker 4:I'm going to Google that date because I guarantee it registered on the Richter scale.
Speaker 2:I guarantee it did I remember hearing something news about that that it did. I'm 12 miles away as the crow flies, probably 25 miles roadway.
Speaker 1:It was the day before Thanksgiving of 2019.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Well, if Garth Brooks concert, unless you stay and had one register, I'm sure a shock wave that magnitude probably did, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:You had to have. You had to have. Yeah, hmm, you like Garth Brooks.
Speaker 3:I do, yeah, who doesn't? You're not American.
Speaker 4:You don't like Garth.
Speaker 3:Brooks.
Speaker 2:What kind of?
Speaker 3:question is that, robby, you're stepping off as a weeds brother.
Speaker 2:We'll talk later.
Speaker 3:God who hired this guy. Hey, what Do I like Garth Brooks.
Speaker 2:Did you find out where he put the boss Matt? And?
Speaker 3:Rouge. I mean oh, friends in low places hint, hint, good music.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, all right, we got sidetracked. Yeah, rabbit hole. What's coming up at Jeff Co over there for you all, there's a vote. Your election's coming up?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we have some election spots for a couple of board spots on there, and then we're also holding a on the ballot is also a vote for us to transition to team PA. Okay, and you know we have that meeting coming up. Yeah, monday, yeah, monday, yeah, we're going to have to. Yeah, I guess a little Q and A. We've had a couple of them already and been to a couple of shift meetings. Robbie has and just really just trying to get the word out there, because kind of like how you've talked about before in Southeast Texas, we thought there wasn't any, any other options. You know we were. We didn't know anything else existed really.
Speaker 4:You only know what you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know we it's like we were in this little fishbowl that it's the only option you have, so just deal with it. And so now that we've discovered there are other options that do offer better services and better, you know uh, yeah. Yeah, Uh, that's, that's really what we're. We're sakin out.
Speaker 4:So one thing that's interesting um, we're in the business essentially providing career insurance, legal protection, career insurance like state farm and um. All state provide homeowners insurance protection, auto insurance protection. When the discussion began of leaving another organization to come over to TNPA and it was just discussions of occurring in a possible vote for that to occur the other group, since you was scathing threatening letter, um, threatening court action against you, um and against the organization for potentially leaving. Would that be like if I decided I didn't want state farm anymore and state farm decides they're going to take me to court and sue me because I may be looking at all going to all state or farm bureau. Is that? Were you a little shocked to get a scathing threatening letter?
Speaker 1:Um, at the point of how long I'd been a president I wasn't shocked. But yeah, pretty much cause. At the end of the day, you know we are like we're the customer. You know like we don't work for who we're paying, they work for us and for them to do that. The people that sent me the letter first off have never contacted me a single time. I didn't even know this person existed as the president of that organization for the entire time I was on the executive board and president have never spoken to them, have never been contacted by them at all. Um, but when the word gets out that we were trying to transition to another organization in TNPA, that's when I start being contacted by other people and they start sending all these letters out to all 300 or so of our members. You know, um, you know saying that I'm spreading lies.
Speaker 4:Uh say, I don't think that's good cause. You know, assassinating your character yeah, I'm not the smartest guy in the room, but that's not great customer service.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wasn't pleased with it. I think.
Speaker 2:That's just what they do. That's the same M? O they use everywhere. We get calls from all the time, from people that experienced the same thing that you've experienced. I've experienced it in the president of BPOA and now it's him is experienced in there. So they haven't changed their ways. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And one thing that, uh, it was pretty par for the course was when, uh, portnaches, groves and Nederland all voted to go to TNPA. They're smaller agencies, they're 30 man, 25 man departments. Nothing happened. You know it's well, you didn't care when these guys left. But you know people that you're making money off of. Now it's a problem and you want to threaten a state district judge to come and intervene and and calling TNPA a second rate organization. Uh, you know which is kind of?
Speaker 2:I mean, it's just bad business you know, so it's shot at me too in that letter, but it's pretty unprofessional to me, if you.
Speaker 1:You know, just in my opinion, I think it's all it was all pretty unprofessionally done Instead of calling me or meeting me somewhere. Hey, let's talk about it. What's the issues you are having? What are y'all wanting to get out of this? Uh, it's never really been like that, but it would have made a world of difference. It would have. It would have. And I'm not like a, you know, republican Democrat, you know like die hard one thing or the other. I'm wanting what's best for my, for my members.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:You know, and if, if TNPA was treating me that way, I'd be, I'd be wanting to leave the same way. Like you know, I'm not like no matter what, sticking with one thing, you know, blind to everything. It's, it's just what's going to be best for the association.
Speaker 4:Well, every association is different. What's best for Jeff Co may not be best for Garland, may not be best for Marshall or Beaumont. All associations are so different, but the the important part of this is the autonomy of local control. There's 2,900 police agencies in Texas. 2,800 police agencies in Texas, probably 2,000 associations. We have a huge chunk of those. We have over 33,000 members. If you, if you called me and said, hey, as Jefferson County, you know we're going to endorse Hillary Clinton and Beto Rourke. Okay, if that's what you guys feel is best for Jeffco.
Speaker 2:Yep Cool.
Speaker 4:Probably not with something we're going to do, and here's some maybe reasons why. But if that's what is best for y'all, get after it. Yep, and you had said in the past that if you guys wanted to meet with a state representative, or speaker or someone.
Speaker 4:You guys were called and chastised and told that you couldn't Correct and if you did, they had to be there Correct. That's just not how business works. That is your house, that is y'all's association and we don't get to dictate. We have associations with 10 people in it. We have Dallas County and DPS. Both of them probably have a thousand or 1100 members in them. I don't get to tell a four officer association what to do. Yep, I don't get to tell DPS, where we have over a thousand 1100 members. We don't tell them what to do.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 4:If they think that's what's best for their specific set of circumstances in the politics and the personalities, that's what's best for them. It's not up to team PA to come in and tell you you shall do this and if you don't, then we're going to do this. That's just not how this thing operates. We're an umbrella to be an asset, not to dictate what you guys do, because what y'all are doing there may be totally different than you know what Beaumont or somebody else needs to be doing.
Speaker 3:Way different. Well, if you have to result to resort to threats or imitation for any company or any organization, then your product itself is not worth selling.
Speaker 4:And LE or Alpha people. You don't threaten them out. The winning minds and changing hearts. Threats is not the route to do that.
Speaker 2:That's what I don't understand, because, well, not all of their group, their leaders in their group, have walked a day in our boots as a corrections officer, even as a police officer there. Not all of them have. All of ours has, but not all of theirs have. So I don't think they understand. They think they could try to intimidate and you hire them in your house, or even in your house. You pay them a large amount of money every month, which adds up to a great amount of money at the end of the year. You don't get the service, but then you try to think about leaving, to come to us or whoever else, or just go independent, correct. They want to try to sue you. To do that, you get an injunction from a district judge to pause the vote because it violated the bylaws. Yeah, when a phone call to you would have been much more appreciated to discuss what's causing this. What's the problem?
Speaker 4:But, hey brother, what's going on? I'm hearing, I'm hearing this. What can we do, rather than send a threatening letter?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think now and I don't want to speak for you, but you're so done with them and they're too far gone for you and your group to recover from Whatever they try to do now is just going to be like dangling a carrot. Like if they bring you a logo, cooler the swag they bring and drop off and think that's fine. When they get back out of town it's back to the same old thing that they were doing before, which is not effective and it's not working and it's not what you need. Looks like.
Speaker 4:Daytona girl and telling her she calls to say she's going to break up. Well, I'm going to sue you then. Oh well, that'll probably really make her stay with you, yeah.
Speaker 2:You want to force you to be with me?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I changed my mind. I do love you, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And that was the confusion that you work for us or paying you, so we're the ones that should be receiving the service. You're not dictating this. We had a lot of people, you know, when I first brought up you know, tmpa that didn't really hear about them. You know they think everything's going to change and you know, thinking that TMPA is going to have more control. And at the end of the day, I explained to people, like you said, we're at the end of day, we're Jefferson County Sheriff Association. Whether Taco Bell is representing us or TMPA, it doesn't matter. At the end of the day we're our own thing. We're going to do what we want to, no matter what. We just want better customer service.
Speaker 2:I think that's your group over there. You have several old schoolers there. That's all they know. Is the group you're with now, yep. So they're used to being controlled by them and them telling you know the other group telling them what to do. We come in your house, we're going to get out of your way. You call me if you need something. I'll pop in from time to time to check on folks, but I'm not ever going to tell you. We're never going to tell you what to do. We give you advice but, like Clint said, you know what's best for your group.
Speaker 4:And to the extent that sometimes we'll have locals call, hey, we're going to do this. We're like, yeah, man, that's, that's not what we recommend. Well, that's what we want to do. We want to pick a fight with the chief or we want to. And we're like man, your circumstances, right now, you're not in a good position of you know, a good position of power or strength, and well, we're going to do. Okay, that's your call to make and that's your we'll. We'll try and give you some guidance or direction. We're not going to dictate. You shall do this. You shall not meet with this person. You shall do this is not how this thing works. That's not. And as a local president, I was thinking back. I've heard your story and I heard another story from someone else, somewhat similar. I'm thinking, dude, if I'd been the president at Goral and got that phone call, I would have been en route to Austin to find that person in person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've deleted about 12 emails that I typed up. I would sit there and just go with nuts on my phone, you know, and the shower's running and I'm supposed to be getting ready for work. I'm about to run the hot water out of my shower because I've just been standing there in the bathroom just like you know just fuming mad and I've been deleted. You know be better than that. Don't take the high road, and then I'd go grab my phone again.
Speaker 4:Don't use bad words Like no forget that. I've deleted.
Speaker 1:you know, I've just been sitting there. I've probably did it 10 or 12 times Well keep us updated on how the vote works.
Speaker 3:Sure, you know we're looking forward to it. I think the votes are probably going to go the way that you know. You think it will, and so we support you guys Either way the vote goes. I know that Robbie and this organization is going to stand behind you guys in whatever capacity that we can help out, sure, you got anything else.
Speaker 4:Caleb's very, very best day ever and Caleb's worst day ever.
Speaker 1:In life, or yeah, sure.
Speaker 4:Law enforcement live.
Speaker 1:Man, that's a deep question, trying to think what expecting that was your. Yeah man, wow, best day ever, probably when I had enough seniority to go to day shift, was probably my best day ever in law enforcement, you know, when they gave me that phone call and there was, you know, a spot left open on days.
Speaker 2:I'll take it.
Speaker 1:I got made fun of by my buddies on you know midnight, but yeah, that was probably my most exciting day. Probably worst day in law enforcement was probably the first 30 minutes after that plan exploded. I had never accepted death before you know. You don't hear people say you're very calm during that and it was.
Speaker 2:What peaceful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, surprisingly, it was when the flash of light came over. Yeah, I had never accepted like, well, this is it, and I was. I wasn't freaking out, but it was terrifying at all at the same time. But yeah, that was probably I could imagine that. Yeah, it was beyond terrifying. Yeah, when you can feel the heat from a mile mile and a half away, you can feel the heat radiating on your back as you're walking around and stuff. Yeah, that was probably the scariest, probably the worst.
Speaker 4:How old are you 32. What would 32 year old Caleb tell 16 year old Caleb? You don't know everything.
Speaker 1:You're solid. You don't know everything and you probably won't for a long time. Yeah, I don't think you ever know everything. No, but I can tell you myself at 16, I thought I did yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah with you.
Speaker 1:And you know, as a rookie cop I thought I knew everything.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think about, like dude, how embarrassing you know when I think about how I acted, you know, as a rookie cop and the things that I did, dude you're a moron. Shut up, quit talking. You don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I'm 51, still trying to learn and figure it all out.
Speaker 1:I'm figuring it out slowly, I guess.
Speaker 3:Well, we've got three final rapid fire questions Favorite cop car, favorite cop movie or line from a cop movie and favorite drink of choice.
Speaker 1:Crown Victoria.
Speaker 3:Boom.
Speaker 1:Just because the durability you know you could throw it in reverse and drive there's just no yeah. Crown Victoria. You know they'd smell like a clogged vacuum cleaner after you've been driving it hard. When you get out you know, it was just. I guess it's just something cool.
Speaker 4:A Chevy Caprice probably would have survived the blast, probably completely unscathed.
Speaker 2:No, no, Well he was on a Tahoe in the blast. Yeah, oh yeah. Someone's in a Chevy, he's in a Chevy.
Speaker 4:Well, they should have, yeah, no.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Crown Victoria probably would have.
Speaker 2:Just slowed it down.
Speaker 4:They'd just throw it right through. It Blown you all the way to the ocean probably.
Speaker 3:Favorite cop movie or line from a cop movie Training Day.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, Training Day. Even though it's a crooked cop, it's my favorite.
Speaker 4:Denzel's the man yeah he is, he is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're in the office, baby. That's probably my favorite line from that Favorite drink of choice. I would have to say grapefruit juice and vodka.
Speaker 4:There you go, I like it, any specific vodka you like.
Speaker 1:I usually go with Tito's. I like it. Tito's are great. There you go.
Speaker 4:Good, you got a thing else, no, so other than I appreciate you coming up.
Speaker 3:Appreciate you being on.
Speaker 4:Appreciate you bravely to stand in the fire, because being in LE stressful enough, being in association leadership is stressful, and then trying to affect change for the better of the organization, sometimes against folks will or sometimes not against their will. Just you only know what you know and then getting threatened for doing the right thing.
Speaker 2:I appreciate you standing in the fire, brother Yep definitely Glad to and I'm a phone call while you know that. Oh yeah, all the time Any other story?
Speaker 3:Thanks for coming up, dude. Appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Appreciate it, Robbie good having you on again. Hey, good to be here, man, I got a fresh haircut, beard trimmed. Oh, your beard's trimmed. Yeah, look at the size, look at that.
Speaker 3:They faded it in. It looks nice. You have to have the headphones in the way. We don't have like a policy against them. Yeah, it looks it looks.
Speaker 2:If we had a policy against them, you'd stop trying to grow a beard yourself. But I just didn't shave this morning. I woke up early, oh okay, get off me.
Speaker 3:God, we're good, we're good.
Speaker 2:All right, well, this about wraps this thing up. Oh, actually, I got a birthday coming up Friday, tomorrow. This about wraps this thing up.
Speaker 3:You guys take care, stay safe. God bless you and, as always, god bless Texas. I'll see you tomorrow.
Speaker 2:Bye, bye, bye.