How do you turn life’s adversities into stepping stones towards an extraordinary life? Get ready to be enlightened as we host Rebecca Zung, nationally recognized attorney, master negotiator and high conflict expert, podcaster, YouTuber, and bestselling author. Rebecca has not only navigated the tumultuous terrain of life's challenges, but she has also turned her experiences into a tool for empowerment and success.
From overcoming childhood bullying to breaking the mold of societal norms, Rebecca shares how she found her power. We dive deeper into the much-needed conversation on narcissistic relationships, unraveling the psychological makeup of narcissists, and how to stand your ground when dealing with them. She explains that narcissists crave external validation, often blaming others and projecting their issues. She gives tips on how to negotiate with narcissists by understanding their fear of losing their image or their "supply."
Rebecca also describes the behavior and mindset of narcissists, how they manipulate others by attacking their self-esteem and create a push-pull dynamic to stay in control. She points out that they fear abandonment and become addicted to the ups and downs caused by this dynamic. Childhood trauma can contribute to their development, stunting their emotional growth.
She distinguishes between overt (showy) and covert (passive-aggressive) narcissists and discusses strategies for dealing with them, like setting boundaries, not absorbing their behavior, and focusing on personal growth rather than changing them. Rebecca also enlightens us with a powerful truth: narcissists are more afraid of us than we are of them.
Further, we explore the Slay Method - Rebecca's brainchild that has helped thousands reclaim their lives from toxic relationships - and the focus of her new book Slay the Bully: How to Negotiate with a Narcissist and Win. She shares impactful stories from her entrepreneurial journey and introduces us to her mastermind programs. Her journey of balancing a successful law practice, raising four children, and transitioning into an entrepreneur and business owner, is truly empowering. This enlightening conversation with Rebecca Zung will arm you with knowledge and strategies to confidently navigate life and complex relationships. Tune in, transform, and thrive.
CONNECT WITH REBECCA ZUNG
Connect with Michelle Rios:
IG: https://www.instagram.com/michelle.rios.official/
FB: https://www.facebook.com/michelle.c.rios
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3ahwTlqiLU&list=PL-ltQ6Xzo-Ong4AXHstWTyHhvic536OuO
Website: https://michelleriosofficial.com
How do you turn life’s adversities into stepping stones towards an extraordinary life? Get ready to be enlightened as we host Rebecca Zung, nationally recognized attorney, master negotiator and high conflict expert, podcaster, YouTuber, and bestselling author. Rebecca has not only navigated the tumultuous terrain of life's challenges, but she has also turned her experiences into a tool for empowerment and success.
From overcoming childhood bullying to breaking the mold of societal norms, Rebecca shares how she found her power. We dive deeper into the much-needed conversation on narcissistic relationships, unraveling the psychological makeup of narcissists, and how to stand your ground when dealing with them. She explains that narcissists crave external validation, often blaming others and projecting their issues. She gives tips on how to negotiate with narcissists by understanding their fear of losing their image or their "supply."
Rebecca also describes the behavior and mindset of narcissists, how they manipulate others by attacking their self-esteem and create a push-pull dynamic to stay in control. She points out that they fear abandonment and become addicted to the ups and downs caused by this dynamic. Childhood trauma can contribute to their development, stunting their emotional growth.
She distinguishes between overt (showy) and covert (passive-aggressive) narcissists and discusses strategies for dealing with them, like setting boundaries, not absorbing their behavior, and focusing on personal growth rather than changing them. Rebecca also enlightens us with a powerful truth: narcissists are more afraid of us than we are of them.
Further, we explore the Slay Method - Rebecca's brainchild that has helped thousands reclaim their lives from toxic relationships - and the focus of her new book Slay the Bully: How to Negotiate with a Narcissist and Win. She shares impactful stories from her entrepreneurial journey and introduces us to her mastermind programs. Her journey of balancing a successful law practice, raising four children, and transitioning into an entrepreneur and business owner, is truly empowering. This enlightening conversation with Rebecca Zung will arm you with knowledge and strategies to confidently navigate life and complex relationships. Tune in, transform, and thrive.
CONNECT WITH REBECCA ZUNG
Connect with Michelle Rios:
IG: https://www.instagram.com/michelle.rios.official/
FB: https://www.facebook.com/michelle.c.rios
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3ahwTlqiLU&list=PL-ltQ6Xzo-Ong4AXHstWTyHhvic536OuO
Website: https://michelleriosofficial.com
I've interviewed a lot of psychologists and psychiatrists and spoken to a lot of them too, and most of them have all said no. And here's what I'm going to say to you you can change yourself, can't change other people. It goes for anything. Honestly, I mean, work on changing yourself. Don't sit around and think that you're going to change other people on anything frankly, and certainly not narcissists who they're not even self-aware.
Speaker 2:Hi, I'm Michelle Rios, host of the Live your Extraordinary Life podcast. This podcast is built on the premise that life is meant to be joyful, but far too often we settle for less. So if you've ever thought that something is missing from your life, that you were meant for more, or you simply want to experience more joy in the everyday, then this podcast is for you. Each week, I'll bring you captivating personal stories, transformative life lessons and juicy conversations on living life to the fullest, with the hope to inspire you to create a life you love on your terms, with authenticity, purpose and connection. Together, we'll explore what it means to live an extraordinary life, the things that hold us back and the steps we all can take to start living our best lives. So come along for the journey. It's never too late to get started, and the world needs your light.
Speaker 3:I am so excited to welcome my guest today. She is a podcaster, a master negotiator, an attorney by trade, a bestselling author. She's in the top 1% of all lawyers in America and she is the author of the new book Slave Bully how to Negotiate with a Narcissist and when. I am so grateful to have with me today the beautiful and kind Rebecca Zung. Rebecca, thanks for coming. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:So fun to be with you, and it's so fun because we actually get to meet in person before too.
Speaker 3:I know. So we have this tie. Not only, we have ties to the Northern Virginia area, because you grew up in McLean correct.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did. I went to Chester Brook Elementary School. I love it.
Speaker 3:And then we got to meet in LA a few weeks back well, several weeks back now for our dear friend Craig's book launch. Yeah, so fun. Love him, love him to pieces, great guy and great book. But now we are here to talk about Slave Bully. Before we get into that, I'm going to start with a really big question, rebecca, and that is what does it mean to you to live your extraordinary life?
Speaker 1:Hmm, oh, such a good question. We're starting right off, we're going right there. It is being in love with life and loving every moment of it, being in joy with everything that you're doing and being present with that and I think, living in your authentic power and I know that I didn't for the longest time when you have such a disconnect between who you feel like you are and who you are out here, there's not that feeling of being in your true power.
Speaker 1:But when you can get who you feel like you are in here to match who you are out here and there's less disconnect there, that's me that enlightenment is everything right, yeah, then that's when you're standing in your true, authentic power and to me it's aligning with source and it's aligning with God and aligning with who I think, where you came from. When your soul aligns with, when you get that human part of yourself to align with that source part of yourself, I think, the more you can have alignment with that less gap there. That's when you can find that true joy and happiness and true power. And that's when you start attracting so much more goodness into your life and the best people into your life and the best high vibration into your life. And that's when the inside matches the outside and the on camera matches the off camera and there's really not that much difference between what's happening anywhere in your life. There's true joy and happiness.
Speaker 3:I love that because that's when you can take the masks off right, like we all walk around with all these personas who I am, my job title, my roles and my life. When you can drop that and just let the true essence of you on the inside match the outside, that's really where the manifesting power comes into play, too right.
Speaker 1:Oh, totally, and you can manifest in such a beautiful way that way too, and I know, because you're starting to manifest abundance in every way in your life. That way you know relationships, health, wealth, everything, because the higher vibrational, we are beings of energy, and so when you are vibrating in a higher level, you're just going to attract more and more of the things that you want.
Speaker 3:And you have done that, my friend, because you had a very successful career as an attorney. You were a master negotiator, you've been in the ring multiple times over and you've been very successful. But you've now parlayed all of that experience into being a phenomenal podcaster, a best selling author, and you are really in your element. I mean to see you online to shining and helping to empower people is a beautiful thing. You can see how authentic it is for you. So let's start kind of in the beginning, because I'm going to guess you didn't have that vision initially. Like you went to law school, you got out there, you were doing your thing, what was happening for you, that you started to see. The through thread of this is going to be a space that I, for one way, shape or form, help empower others on.
Speaker 1:I think it's been a confluence of events my whole life. I was bullied as a kid for being Asian, back at Chesterbrook Elementary, actually in McLean, virginia, and I mean not to say that I didn't have friends, but I definitely felt isolated. I felt alone. I felt voiceless in a lot of ways and you know, I didn't stand up for myself in those days. My parents are German and Chinese. I'm half German, half Chinese, so I didn't come from cultures where you felt like you could stand up against your parents. Even so, I think that my version of rebelling was I dropped out of college when I was 19. I had three kids by the time I was 22. And even then after that I was like what the hell am I doing? I ended up getting divorced and I went back to law school in my twenties still because I thought I got to feed my kids and put a roof over their head and do something with myself. So that's when I was out full on survival mode and went back to law school at night and I met my husband there and we've been married for 23 years now. But I was all about survival for me at that point. That's how I built my practice and I ended up doing high net worth family law, but it really wasn't until after I built this massive practice and had a fourth child, my daughter's 21.
Speaker 1:Now all of that happened for me that a few years ago, I was, like you know, really more of an entrepreneur at heart. I want to do entrepreneurial things. We moved to LA. We're back and forth between LA and Florida. At that point, I ended up with this woman who ended up to be a covert narcissist business partner, and I didn't know what a covert narcissist was. I never even heard that word before Covert, passive, aggressive narcissist. I didn't know that women could be narcissists, none of that. And that was when it completely disempowered me. I felt voiceless again and after I got out of that relationship, somebody said to me oh, she was a covert, passive, aggressive narcissist, and this was in July of 2019. And I was like what is that? What is the words that just came out of your mouth? I mean, it was like an alien word, foreign to me.
Speaker 3:Well, that's what we're in. Let's delve into that for a minute, because I think a lot of people have a notion for what a narcissist is. But tell us in your words you've experienced it firsthand what is a narcissist?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's such a great question because that was when I felt, oh my God, so traumatized and disempowered and voiceless again and I thought, okay, let me dive into this. I started reading all about it because I wanted to know, not for, oh, I thought I'm going to do this for myself for a living. So, yes, so it's a person contrary to popular to believe. It's not a person who goes around telling everybody how great they are necessarily Sometimes they do, but they really actually feel awful inside. You know what I was talking about? The no gap.
Speaker 1:This person feels the most amount of gap. This is a person who feels totally and completely empty inside, and so they go around trying to fill this empty void with the external, and it's a black hole that can never be filled. But they want you to fill it, and so you're trying to fill it too, but yet it can never be filled, and so you're left feeling totally and utterly depleted, and yet they're still starving, and so it's scarcity to the utmost extreme, and it's like as if they're desperate for air, trying to breathe, and total pain, and so that's why they can't feel empathy, because all they can think about is themselves.
Speaker 3:It's so interesting. I had a group of women over at my home. One of our friends happens to be going through a divorce with someone who would come to find out, is sort of a chronic narcissist and has always been, but over, seems to be able to be a chameleon in certain circumstances. So it's disarming, at times very charming, but at the heart of it was always constantly needing the fell, never feeling fulfilled, and it always would be the other person's fault.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, protection and deflection, lying and denying that's what I always say, right.
Speaker 3:I think the difference between that, the over and the covert, is a really interesting, because I for the longest time know that this person, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, because they're such a fragile ego, very, very fragile, so they have to project and deflect all the time, because if anything disrupts that little fragile ego, it's like it's their survival. They cannot have anything to disrupt that because it's like they'll collapse. I mean, it's total survival for them at all times, desperate survival at all times. And so they have this desperate need for narcissistic supply. And I always say the two types of supply that fill this void are what I call diamond level supply or coal level supply.
Speaker 1:So diamond level supply is how they look to the world.
Speaker 1:It's the outside stuff, it's what I call the good stuff, so it's the cars, the money, it's anything that, how they look to the world, their perception, just image, anything with regard to image, and they will protect and defend that at any cost, even at the cost of their children.
Speaker 1:So it's money, it's new girlfriends, it's the good job, it's the employees, it might be a judge, it's anything. That is their image, how they look to the world. And then what I call coal level supply is what I call the dark underbelly of narcissistic supply, which they also love to, but slightly less, which is manipulating people, treating people poorly, degrading them, controlling them, whatever they need to do to push people down to build themselves up. So they love both, but when push comes to shove, they will let go of the coal level supply in order to protect the image. So when you're building a strategy around how to negotiate with them, the leverage is always going to be how can you threaten a source of supply that's going to be more important for them to keep than the supply that they get from manipulating you or jerking you around, because you are the coal level supply that they'll never let go of, Unless you threaten that source.
Speaker 3:You know it's interesting, I always say. There's this quote out there that I love. It's called the business of business is relationships, but the S of life, if you think about it, is relationships. We are relational beings and so for anyone listening, thinking God, I just want to steer clear of these kind of people.
Speaker 3:But we all know of them and we all have to either work with them on a professional level in one way, shape or form, or pop up in the course of our careers, or they might even be someone in our personal lives or in our family world, and so knowing how best to navigate that in a way that you don't come out depleted, that you do maintain your integrity, is going to be really critical. So tell us a little bit about what those strategies really are. You got a little bit to it right now about this diamond level, that that whole image is something they want to protect. So that's probably the most threatened part of everything. But how do we even begin to speak and go about interacting in a way that doesn't disempower us? Frankly, to brain us dry, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, for one thing, you have to understand that they're actually more afraid of you than you are of that. So it's all really kind of like this scam, because they don't attach themselves to you because you have so little value. They attach themselves to you because you have so much. I mean that's the scam, because they don't want to have themselves attached to the clearance rack item. I mean, what's the point in devaluing something that has no value? I mean, think about it. They want to devalue something that has value, because that's the whole point of being able to push something down that has value. It makes them self feel big to push something down that has value.
Speaker 3:So when you hear somebody saying things like I'm just imagining now questioning someone's self worth then, whether or not they're really good at their job, or insinuating that they aren't all that, that's actually not, because they think that that is part of the control and manipulation.
Speaker 1:Of course. Why do they want to constantly keep pushing, pulling, pushing, pulling and play this game with you if they didn't think that you had some value? The whole point of it is they do. The thing that they fear the most is that you're actually going to leave them. That's the thing they fear the most. So they're way more afraid of you than you are of them. That's the big scam of it all.
Speaker 3:Crazy, yeah, I mean Blurring so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so they cause this trauma bond because of the push-pull-push-pull thing. You get this dopamine hit every time they're way high and then you crave it when it goes away. I mean, that's actually. There was a study done by Robert Sapolsky that talked about how you actually become physiologically addicted to that dopamine hit. But what's actually going on with them is this I don't know what narcissists was formed, but I think this is actually really important for people to understand, as how a narcissist was formed was during childhood. They were exposed to trauma in their childhood, so their brains are actually formed differently.
Speaker 1:When any of us are exposed to a stressful situation, our bodies respond by emitting chemicals into our bloodstream, our brains. So it's adrenaline and cortisol and things like that to prepare us for a stress response, and obviously the same thing happens as children. Well, when that happens on a continuous basis, it can actually cause a rest development in the limbic system, part of the brain, the children's brains, and so the emotional center of the brain. And so what happens is, while the prefrontal cortex, the other parts of the brain, continue to develop, that limbic system, the emotional center part of the brain, does not continue to develop the way that it should. And so when they're presented as adults with situations that cause them to be triggered which can be anything such as an eye roll or any sort of a slight, or they feel like they're going to be having a loss of control, or they feel like they're going to be exposed, or something like that most of the time is not rational or reasonable to the rest of us then there's a phenomenon called splitting. So it's in an instant. They immediately go black to white in an instant. Then that limbic system, part of the brain, becomes activated and it's called narcissistic injury. And when that happens, now you're interacting with the limbic system, now you're interacting with that part of their brain, and during that period of time they don't even necessarily remember how they've acted.
Speaker 1:They're certainly not rational, they're certainly not reasonable and they will take themselves down to take you down. And I've seen it, I've seen it happen. I mean I've done thousands and thousands of mediation. I did high net worth divorce litigation for 20 years. So I mean I've seen it all. And I mean I've seen these guys who will burn their own businesses to the ground just so they don't have to pay alimony to their wives or whatever. And I've over here going the hell are they doing? But that's why because they don't think long term. They think so impulsively, because they're thinking I just want to get them, I just want to get them. But that's what's happening. And so a rational, reasonable person is over there going. I'm sure they don't want to have to pay fees, I'm sure they just want to get to the end of this thing, but that's not what's happening. You're interacting with a person who's maybe a narcissistic rage or narcissistic injury. Their brains are literally in arrested development at that point.
Speaker 3:Do you find or have you experienced throughout your career that it's predominantly men that experiences? You talked about that. You also had a business partner that explained these tendencies. So is it kind of a 50-50 out there in the population or can present?
Speaker 1:I couldn't find specific statistics on that. I mean, I found some statistics on different populations as far as professions and things like that. I think it is probably more covert narcissists, or women for sure, Because I think women tend to know oh, I can't be out there bragging about myself and telling everybody how great I am, demanding the best table in the restaurant, saying give me the steak, or whatever. I think it's probably more women or covert narcissists because they tend to be a little bit more passive, aggressive oh that dress is so becoming on you for your figure. That kind of thing.
Speaker 3:Oh boy, I'm sure that's triggering everyone right now because everyone knows that person. You look so great for your age.
Speaker 1:Well, it's something I did put you on that email chain. I don't know if that happened. That kind of thing. That's the covert narcissist. The covert narcissist always has that plausible deniability. I would say it's sort of like clean hands, oh, like a new half happened, like very passive, aggressive. Absolutely I'll do that for you. Then they just don't do it. That's the covert narcissist. To me is the worst one because they're very, very passive, aggressive, smile on their face, humanitarian, but underneath it is, they're extremely jealous, rageful. It's just right underneath the surface. So they're masters at getting people to be pitted against each other and dropping little tidbits of things that they say oh, I'm just so concerned about Susie and her drinking.
Speaker 3:Sorry, like I'm pretty sure I was at a dinner party where this happened not too long ago, or you're like there's somebody in every group. What about then the overt ones? This tends to be more where they're actually pounding their chest a bit more. The vanity seems obvious, but that's a thin veil, because it's really masking deep insecurity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean the overt one is the one who's going around telling everybody I've got this great deal, I just closed a fantastic deal in my business, I've got all this stuff going on. They're much, much more impulsive. They tend to be risk takers. They tend to be much more of the people who are grand gestures, rent out the entire restaurant for everybody Look at how generous I am. They're the ones. You kind of know who these people are. The covarts are the ones who are. I'll just stay over here. It's okay, don't worry about me, I'm fine.
Speaker 3:They tend to be All the while they're plotting revenge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I prefer not to be in the limelight. It's okay. But meanwhile they're smearing somebody on the sidelines, right?
Speaker 3:So what's to say? We don't all just pick up our toys and go home and leave these people by themselves. Obviously we have to engage, and it comes down to a lot of these people are either people that we are in some sort of personal relationship with or working with in one way or another, so we can't just bring all our toys home and say I'm going to shut you out. We have to interact with them. So what is the way to get at the heart of it and make sure we don't come out the other end completely zockered by these folks?
Speaker 1:So I give a three step process for what I call baby steps, right, because a lot of times you're so beat up by them I mean other than my slay method, obviously, which I started to give a little bit of but within the slay method I say step one don't run. Step two make a U turn. Step three break free. Because so often you're just like, oh my God, where do I start? How can I just start to think straight? Right, so step one is just creating some boundaries, and if the very first boundary that you create is I'm not going to allow myself to be spoken to in a way that is disrespectful, that's a really good place to start and how I teach people, that is, I give people ways to just start to look at them as if they're having a tantrum on the floor, for one thing Because, as I mentioned, the rest of development. So just start looking at them like, okay, I can see that you're upset, I can see that you're angry. We can have this discussion when you're less angry. Just start not taking it personally. So I say observe, don't absorb. So just start having this invisible layer of boundary come down around you, invisible shield, come down around you and then be like Superman with the bullets or Wonder Woman with the bracelets and it's just not yours. You can even say your triggers are not my responsibility. So many times people will say you did this and you made me angry or you caused me to be upset or whatever. Your triggers are not my responsibility. Or you can just say, like we can have this conversation later, or this approach is not working for me, or you can speak to me with respect or whatever.
Speaker 1:I had a client one time who she thought that she and her husband were working on getting back to a better place. They even started going to marriage counseling and she thought, okay, we're getting somewhere here. And then, as they were going out to go to an event, all of a sudden he was back to what he would do when they were out before, basically kind of accusing her of looking slutty or whatever right. And so they were on their way out and all he did was say underneath his breath lipstick, because he didn't like her red lipstick. And she just got that familiar pit in her stomach and she just like knew when they started to do things like that, you just say thanks for the feedback. You don't have to take that on and continue to wear the damn lipstick.
Speaker 3:Exactly Tell us about. There's that fine line between can a narcissist ever improve, or is that a rest of development, something that just isn't fixed? Because I'm sure a lot of people are like I'm. For example, somebody might be married to one or one thing. To be married to one versus work with one. You can kind of go home from the one you work with. But if you're married to that, like you said in your client's case, is divorce inevitable?
Speaker 1:You know I get this question a lot and from what I understand and I've interviewed a lot of psychologists and psychiatrists and spoken to a lot of them too and most of them have all said no. And here's what I'm going to say to you, you can change yourself. Can't change other people. It goes for anything honestly. I mean work on changing yourself. Don't sit around and think that you're going to change other people on anything frankly, and certainly not narcissists. They're not even self aware. I mean, marriage is hard enough when you've got two people who are maybe willing and interested in means to an end here and let's try to work toward a goal or whatever. But when you've got somebody who's not interested in self improvement at all, I think you're working was a very difficult situation there.
Speaker 3:Right or not even aware that they need to work on self improvement because they don't see the problem as themselves.
Speaker 1:Exactly. They call you, you, you. So I think that you need to work on yourself, and what happens with narcissists is the minute you try to work on yourself, the minute you try to better yourself, they're going to be over there sneering at you. You changed. What the hell you think you're doing? You're with better people, you think you're better than me. Now, it's never going to go well for you the minute you think you're going to do something for yourself, because they're always threatened by you trying to do anything good for yourself. So I would say it's probably not the best situation for you.
Speaker 1:If it's a full blown narcissist, there's a spectrum. It's always a spectrum. Somebody just has traits or tendencies or they show signs that they might want to. There's always a thing. But I really hesitate with that, because most of the people that I've seen in a very broken traumatic place of trauma and if you can get the strength together and let me say this, the people who they prey upon have had their own issues of self worth, their own issues of boundaries, their own issues of history of trauma, and that's why they prey on them. They suck them dry of all of their self worth and energy and everything that they can get from them, and so if you can finally get yourself together to finally heal from that and feel good enough about yourself to start feeling that light that shines within you, then you're never going to get your needs met by this person because they're not capable of doing that.
Speaker 3:Let's talk specifically about Slay the Bully, because you have. I was really impressed. For those who may not be aware, you can get Slay the Bully anywhere by books right now, so I happened to work on Amazon so that I can have it before I sat down with Rebecca and the forward is by Chris Voss, master negotiator amazing, tell us a little bit. You obviously recognize all the good work you've already done, because this is not your first book on master negotiating.
Speaker 3:This is really a culmination of so much more in all the work that I pulled together and I know a lot of your own personal story was poured into this. So tell us a little bit about when this all came about that you said okay, this is time to write this one. I'm ready because you've been doing masterminds. You're forced to be reckoned with on social. I know your YouTube channel is blown up. Everybody's watching Rebecca and her tips on how to become a master negotiator. But really honing in on this one and sitting down to write this book, tell us a little bit about what went into it and how different this one is compared to the others that you've written.
Speaker 1:Well, I certainly didn't think I was going to be doing this for a living, that's for sure, and I really think that I've been called to do this. I mean, I remember when my first video blew up on how to negotiate with a narcissist and I thought I don't know if I really want to be the narcissist queen. I mean, I thought I was going to do negotiating in general, and then I started to get all of these direct messages and these emails and you saved my life and you changed my life and all of that. And it was really because I started to take what I was learning about narcissism and apply it to what I already knew about negotiation, and at the time I was still practicing law and it was like I had discovered penicillin.
Speaker 1:It was like, oh my God, all of a sudden I started to see movement in these really toxic people, and so I thought, okay, I'll do a few more videos and I turned into a few more, and then I came up with the slay method, and now I've sold literally I don't know 10,000 of these programs, and so I knew that the process is proven, and so I thought it's really time for me to write a book and put it all down into paper and put it on the pages, because I just knew that it was time that people see what it was that I had and share it with the world, because I know that it's a proven process. I know that it works and so many people out there are struggling with toxic people. This is not just for negotiating in a divorce or even negotiating period. These are life skills that people need to have, so I just knew that it was time to share them with the world.
Speaker 3:And I'm curious. I wanna get your point of view on this, but at the end of the day, the slay method is less about the actual narcissist and more about empowering the person that's dealing and navigating in the world. Is that right?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. In the end it is. I mean, it's okay, here's how to create your strategy and build your leverage and do what you need to do to get out, but the you, the why, at the end of the day it's you. I always say it's sort of like the Wizard of Oz. Dorothy was chasing after the Wizard and trying to get there and find that Emerald City and she found the Wizard and found out what he was like the big, huge head, with this guy who was like behind the curtain going what the hell are you? And then found out she had the power all along, and really that's what it is at the end.
Speaker 3:And for everybody listening, I know, under the whole Live your Extraordinary Life conversation that we've been having on this show, bradley speaking, it is about how to navigate life, how to live your life from a place of power that you know that you have it within you, that you can make choices that are aligned with who you are at the most authentic level of you.
Speaker 3:And that's why I really wanted to have Rebecca on I knew there was just his McEnergy when we met that the work she's doing really is about empowering the individual, choosing you, choosing to really be true to yourself, and so it really is. We identify the bully and we're looking at the narcissist through the lens in this book. It really is about giving tools to the individual to live a better life, to really take that power back, knowing that we all have it within us, and to really shine your light. That's really, at the end of the day, how you slay the bully, and that's the part that I loved it, because I was like, and there we go, there's that through thread that I was looking for, and so I really appreciated how well you threaded that needle all the time.
Speaker 1:Thank you Really loved it, thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Tell me what it's like to be a mother of four grown kids. Good Lord, you had them. When I was still in college, you did something pretty remarkable because I think, with that full load of family responsibilities, to go back and get a law school and to really build a tremendous career, like you've done, and become an accomplished writer and bestselling author and do work that you truly love. That you are called to do is something that is an inspiration for so many people, but your kids must be incredibly proud of you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so. I mean they've all done very well for themselves and none of them are on drugs or in jail or anything. They're all doing really well. So I mean it's amazing because we all grew up together so and I'm really proud of them. I mean my oldest one. He has a JD MBA and he actually now ended up working with me too. He helps me run my company, which is amazing.
Speaker 3:Amazing. So he's out on the West Coast with you.
Speaker 1:No, he actually lives in New York City. Wow, okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love this. Yeah, thanks to remote work and all the technology, goods and everything. So your oldest is are they all in their 20s, more or less?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah, new York City. My second one. He manages a big restaurant in Naples, brick Tops, with the eight-nose switch. If anyone in Naples knows, that restaurant is one of the most popular ones there. And then my daughter is a school counselor in the Poconos. And then my youngest is just going into her senior year at UC Davis. She actually interned for Gavin Newsom all summer, so she's a governor Newsom all summer. So she's amazing.
Speaker 3:They're all doing their own thing and living well. So congratulations, mom, because it's no small feat. Right, You're on their own, but they have a good role model. But tell me about the early days, because I can only imagine you had at least three in tow going to law school.
Speaker 1:I don't know if the fourth one really hurt. They did. Oh yeah, just the three.
Speaker 3:Well, no, because the fourth one, I'm sorry she just said just the three Because law school, just the three in law school, no big deal.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, they were little. And then the fourth one is my husband and mine.
Speaker 3:I met my husband in law school, so yeah, that's a lot of tenacity on your part to work at a law school.
Speaker 1:It was a lot. It was a lot. Well, I was still so young. I think that was the thing of it, because I just didn't sleep in those days. I was so young. I remember like I was just starting my career as a lawyer and I was just going to be 30. And I remember going oh so old can't believe that's the shot, the good old days. And I remember somebody saying to me oh, that's perfect, nobody wants a 25-year-old lawyer anyway.
Speaker 3:So true, it's so true. You want some beautiful with some life experience. That's the reality of it and that's the best thing. Well, you've now left the working as an attorney full-time. You've built this seven-figure business. You are a phenomenal entrepreneur, an aspirational career for anybody out there, but for women in particular, I will say, who are on their entrepreneurial journey like I am. We're looking at you going. Rebecca is crushing it and so incredibly proud and grateful that you are shining the path for others. Tell us how. You said OK, that's it, this is my path. I'm going to go out there and I'm going to start these mastermind courses. I'm going to start working with people. Like you've said, you've done this 10,000 times over and you've reached a lot of people through your global company and you continue to give birth to books like Slay the Bulley that are, without a doubt, it's going to change a lot of lives. How did you do it? Because you're walking away from something that was a pretty darn good gig. You had a great problem.
Speaker 1:Oh, my practice. Yeah, it was so funny because I did have a very, very, very big practice. And it was funny because when I did that, somebody actually called because I merged my practice initially with these two other guys and somebody actually called one of the partners that I merged with and said is something wrong with her? The ship can't. I'm like that's because I really had a very, very thriving practice. It's not like, oh, she was not doing well or whatever. No, no, no, it was nothing like that. I mean, and even today, like if I went back to Naples and I opened my doors and sat down at a desk and hung my shingle within a week, I'd have way too much work. There's no doubt in my mind, I just got tired of running cases every day and the same thing. I wanted to just do something else.
Speaker 3:And Did you feel that still small voice? Did you hear it? Was it calling you at that time?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just knew it was more of an entrepreneur. I just wanted more creative something. I enjoyed building the business, but I always say I built it and then it ate me. I just remember at the very end, so my cousin's wife was my receptionist and I had all these associates and all these paralegals and all this stuff going on. And I remember at the very end, well, first, for one thing, I just never got to see my daughter and she was just starting high school at the time and I was just like really upset about that because you know, I was just working all the time and my receptionist, who was my cousin's wife, she came back to my office and she dropped this retainer check on my desk and it was like for 25 grand.
Speaker 1:And this guy she said this guy dropped off this retainer and he said he's retaining you and I said no, I get a say, that's not how it goes. No, I get a say, you call him. I handed her the check back and I said we have to do a complex check, we have to do an initial meeting and I get to decide if I'm retaining him. But it was like to the point of people were like the rowing money there and I was like this is like a no, I can't do this anymore like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you have very little agency of your life, if you allow that. Yeah, you have all control of being able to decide what your time goes to.
Speaker 1:So I mean, it was so much work that I didn't even have to step outside of my office to do any networking at all anymore at that point.
Speaker 3:So you finally got to the point where you're like enough is enough, we gotta make a check.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, and I love what.
Speaker 3:I do now. So everyone about your masterminds, because I wanna make sure we are gonna have all links in the show notes to your website so people can learn more about how they can work with you. We'll have the links to the book. Rebecca has several books, so it's not just Slay the Bullies. She has several books out there that you can look up and see if they're suitable for you as well. I'm excited. I actually ordered a couple books and she also has some stuff on Audible. So she's out there and, very importantly, she's incredibly active in socials. She puts out some phenomenal content, so I really hope that you'll take the time. We'll make sure you have the links in the show notes to both her IG and her YouTube channel, where she does a lot of her longer form video. But tell us about your programs.
Speaker 1:So Slay, your negotiation with a narcissist is most important one that I think people could really use. So slayyournegotiationcom is something that they can check out for sure, or join Slay now. They can check that out there For sure. We had started a book club the Slay the Bulley Club during leading up to the book launch and people loved it so much that we're actually gonna continue with that now because people loved it. We're gonna continue that for $20 a month because people really loved the community of it. I mean, really loved it. So that's actually just getting started now.
Speaker 1:And I do have my master high conflict certification and that is literally the best certification I've ever seen. I just say that not because it's mine, but because it is the only high conflict certification that is for negotiation as well as helping people through trauma and getting them to the other side. But I also include a bonus section which helps people with their career. So I teach how I built my seven figure business on the back end, so how I built my YouTube, how to do a seven figure webinar, how to do a lead magnet, the whole thing. So how to actually have a career doing this. So it's three different parts. It's my slay methodology. It's how to get people through trauma, blocks, fears, how to have a coaching career, that whole thing, and then also how to build a business. So it's pretty cool and so we've already started graduating our first round of master high conflict coaches and I absolutely love them. And how often do you run it? I'm assuming it's rolling. It's rolling Fantastic.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you heard it here. Go check this out for all of you that are interested in potential coaching certification around this master negotiating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so highcontracom, so high conflict training, so it's H-I-C-O-N-T-R-Acom Highcontracom for that. And then my YouTube is RebeccaZungtv and my Instagram is my name.
Speaker 3:And again, we'll have all the links right in the show notes so you can go right there as you're listening and make sure you click in and follow her. You can also go through mine. I'm connected to her IG account. I'm following her on YouTube. She's fascinating to watch do her thing and I'm really so grateful that you came and spent some time with me today. Congratulations on the success of this book. It really is such a great tool and even if you're thinking well I don't know any narcissist trust me, this is about empowering you as an individual for navigating the world of relationships in general. You're going to find somebody out there who is a difficult personality, and this works with them too. So just pick up a copy, give it a read. Are you doing an audible version? Obviously, the bully is while I did the chat.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I finished reading it last week so I know I just finished the pickups so I don't know when they're releasing it. The book is all distributed by Simon and Schuster. There's postal press but it's distributed by Simon and Schuster, so I have very little say this time. My Negotiate, like you Matter, was a hybrid book and then Breaking Free was fully self-published, but this one I have very little say over all of this.
Speaker 3:But the great news with the Simon and Schuster distribution is it's going to go everywhere.
Speaker 1:So it is everywhere. It is literally everywhere, and I just heard last week that, because it's doing so well, it's coming out in hard cover soon.
Speaker 3:So I love it. It's worth picking up a copy, even if it's just in paper, back now, and we'll all be waiting for the audio version to come out too. I'm seeing they're really quick with these things. I bet you it'll be sooner rather than later.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it'll be in all forms here, pretty soon.
Speaker 3:Well, congratulations again and thank you, my friend. Thank you for coming and I wish you continued success on this massive book tour that you're on and for everyone out there. Make sure you check her out, Rebecca Zung in the house.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much Thank you for having me. It was so nice to meet you.
Speaker 2:Thank you for listening to today's episode. If you enjoyed this podcast episode, please take a moment to rate and review. If you have recommendations for future topics, please reach out to me at michellerioseofficialcom. Lastly, please consider supporting this podcast by sharing it. Together, we can reach, inspire and positively impact more people. Thank you.