Live Your Extraordinary Life With Michelle Rios

Transform Your Business with Storytelling that Resonates with Shannon Jenkins

• Michelle Rios

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Have you ever considered the power of effective storytelling?  It might just be the missing ingredient needed to skyrocket your business or personal brand. Yet, its so often overlooked. In this episode of the podcast, I'm joined by Shannon Jenkins, a storytelling expert, public speaking coach, and host of the newly branded podcast RESONATE.

Shannon is on a mission to help digital entrepreneurs, coaches, and consultants craft stories that deeply resonate with their audiences, build authentic personal brands, and scale their businesses. Listen in to learn how the pandemic became a catalyst for her career change and discover the importance of consistency and finding your zone of genius in crafting narratives that leave a lasting impact.

Together, Shannon and I explore the profound role of storytelling in forging genuine connections and inspiring leadership. We break down how stories create emotional resonance and foster trust, even in the most formal corporate environments. Drawing on behavioral science and Amy Cuddy's research, we delve into the balancing act of warmth and competence, which are essential for effective leadership. You'll gain practical insights into how personal experiences shared through compelling stories can break down barriers and build trust.

In this episode, we also touch on the unexpected facets of the entrepreneurial journey, including the shift from a corporate mindset to running a personal business, setting boundaries, and maintaining self-care. Tune in to uncover practical tips and inspiration for your entrepreneurial and storytelling endeavors.

Connect with Shannon
Instagram: @https://www.instagram.com/shannonjenkins.co/
Podcast: https://www.shannonjenkins.co/resonatepodcast. You can subscribe to her podcast and join her email list to stay in touch.

WAYS TO CONNECT WITH ME:

Speaker 1:

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Live your Extraordinary Life podcast. I'm your host, michelle Rios, and I am thrilled to introduce my new friend, shannon Jenkins, this week. Shannon, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2:

Thank you very much for having me, Michelle. Oh, it's my pleasure.

Speaker 1:

So everyone, shannon is a storytelling expert. She's a public speaking coach and she's host of one of the top 5% global podcasts Resonate. She has worked with many executives in Fortune 500 companies like Google and Nestle, and she works on helping to deliver inspiring and impactful presentations. She's going to talk to us today a lot about storytelling and messaging, so I hope that you really dig in. She also specializes in helping entrepreneurs and coaches and consultants really craft and hone their story and message so that it resonates with their audiences the audiences they're trying to reach. So if you're interested in learning more about how to build an authentic personal brand, scale your business and use strategic systems, you're gonna wanna tune into today's episode. So, shannon, let's get started. Let's talk a little bit about how you even came to be doing podcasting. I'm always fascinated with how people actually decide to become a podcaster, because it's definitely a big undertaking, particularly if you want it to have sustainable success. Tell us a little bit about how you came into the podcasting world.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. So I guess a little story here of my own, so you might be able to tell from my accent I'm not American. I am actually Australian and British and now live in Switzerland, and I was at this crossroads in my life like many of us are at certain points where we don't know the right next step to take, and I had met my now husband, david, who is Swiss, and decided to take the leap to move from my native Australia over here, and at the time I was working in international marketing, but in the aviation industry. Now, of course, I'm sure that everyone remembers that 2020 COVID hit, and when your whole company is based in the airline and aviation industry, that does not necessarily equate to good things. So we had a massive downturn. The company still exists, but I was laid off off and I was at this point where I thought what is it? What do I do now?

Speaker 2:

And what was interesting was that when I took on this role within the company, I ended up carving out my own little space in storytelling and presentation, coaching, and it happened really organically, and so I think it was somewhere at the back of my mind like oh, maybe I'll, maybe I'll get into this, but wasn't quite sure, maybe, like many people listening. You know it takes a lot to find that courage, I think, to really branch out onto your own when you don't have that security. And that was certainly my experience. And one day I was walking in the mountains with my husband, quite exasperated, quite honestly, and overthinking, and I remember my husband said something like well, you know your zone of genius to use a concept we can elaborate on later but like the thing that really lights you up, that brings you joy, that you're good at, that you get results for other people for for me, that was coaching and teaching and speaking in particular. And he said I don't know why don't you just start a YouTube channel or a podcast or something? I don't even know how serious he was, michelle, but at that point I was like that is a great idea. Thank you, husband.

Speaker 2:

And I remember just being filled with absolute energy and walking home and then getting out books and looking things up online and there was just something about it that really made my soul shine. I thought that this is it. I don't know what it's going to look like yet, but I had a few weeks perhaps of thinking about what I wanted my message to be, and it ended up becoming Starting Over. Now you might've heard from the introduction people listening, it is now Resonate, but for me it was Starting Over and I wanted to capture the stories of people who were in situations just like myself, which was that you're at a crossroads in your life. You don't know where to turn your focus and your energy, and it can often happen through a hardship or a difficulty, and I realized that there was so much wisdom in people's stories that I really was passionate about sharing. So fast forwarding, starting over, became a podcast. I like doubled down. I said consistency is the absolute thing.

Speaker 2:

And I did a weekly episode for two and a half years. So two and a half years in now and I'm now at the next little iteration, which is Resonate. So it's funny.

Speaker 1:

It's always a journey, evolutionary process, right, but it definitely you can feel the evolution I mean as a storyteller going from starting over which was that juncture in your life to this place of I'm now going all in on storytelling and messaging and resonate being such. You know it's the key word there. It's what we ask about. Is this resonating? Is it relatable? So I love that you came up with that title. I think it's going to be super successful and I cannot wait to see what happens with it.

Speaker 1:

Let's talk a little bit about storytelling specifically in the business world, because it is a different animal. With the power of podcasting, we're able to tell personal stories and we're able to tell a lot about the importance of messaging in the business realm. But specifically storytelling in business. Talk to me a little bit about how you advise executives and leaders in the corporate world that you're walking in, which we have a lot of overlap there. I spent a lot of time in your neck of the woods in Switzerland with Nestle and you're with Google as well. Tell me a little bit about how you talk to them about storytelling, how does it differ.

Speaker 2:

So I think that what was really interesting was that I had had these 120 or so episodes of the podcast where storytelling was just so deeply entrenched. Right, and I recognized, looking at my own data, the podcast episodes that were the most engaged with, the most shared, the ones that sparked somebody to message me saying that was such a healing conversation or that led me to go and make this apology or that led me to have this hard, vulnerable chat that I didn't want to. They were always, and without question, the episodes in which there was a powerful story and the speaker shared it effectively. So I had that and I recognized, man, there's really something in this because as much as we want the five hacks to optimize your life or the quick fix, exactly, exactly we actually forget them. And research backs this up it is 22 times we are 22 times more likely to remember some factual piece of information if it is linked to a story.

Speaker 2:

So this was sort of my background and then I started working with different companies and international organizations and so forth and I think storytelling is having a little bit of a trending moment, I've got to say, because I think we're moving towards greater authenticity.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I think this is relevance of your book as well, michelle. We're now going hold on a second. I'm done with this airline corporate speak that goes in one ear and out the other. I want to feel something I want to connect goes in one ear and out the other. I want to feel something I want to connect and now I'm realizing that when I will go in and do presentations, I'll always start with my own keynote, and I think one of the ways in which that is so effective is because I will show, not only tell, what it means to have a powerful story, and it often will be those elements of including the personal aspect. You know, I remember sharing this story about me walking in the mountains, or another powerful moment for me when I was on a train and had this. Well, we can come into this a little bit later.

Speaker 1:

We're going to tell that story.

Speaker 2:

It's a great one.

Speaker 2:

I'll come back to that story then about how it actually led me into public speaking and storytelling coaching in particular, and I weave these into my keynote, but of course I'm also talking about storytelling from a very scientific perspective, but I realize people remember the stories.

Speaker 2:

So there's a couple of questions that I will always encourage people to consider as a starting point before that, whether that be that you're going to give a presentation in front of a big group, whether you are even having just a meeting with a few people like to zoom out, and the questions I ask people are what is the main message I want to share, what is the perspective I want to shift and what is the action that I want people to take? As a result of listening to this me and this speech or whatever it is I've got to do, and I think, taking that step back, you can say actually what is my overall objective, because we get stuck in the weeds very easily, going into the factual explanations about how things work or what the steps to take are and actually not realizing that the most powerful way to transmit your story is through the emotional resonance that's generated through story.

Speaker 1:

A hundred percent, and what you just said about recognizing, at the end of the day, it's not just what you want to say, but what you want the audience to do as a result of what you're communicating is the entire objective right? We're in a world of behavioral science. What do you want them to do at the end of the day? So it's yeah, I think that that's brilliant, absolutely brilliant, thank you. Tell me a little bit about when you go in to do your storytelling workshops.

Speaker 1:

I'm doing a little bit of sleuthing here because I've been doing this now for 25 years and it's I just recently stepped away from the corporate world and seeing it in a different lens. But one of the most fun aspects of my job over the last 20 some odd years has been going in and working with executives, rolling up our sleeves and actually doing storytelling competitions, and you would be amazed at the stories that come up that you wouldn't expect from this buttoned down executive who walks in with the most powerful story that you know goes from childhood or experience they had totally tangential to the business world, but brings it back home and finds a way to weave the story in, and that's always to me when they find that way to be able to bring their personal experience to their business world and actually tell their own story in a way that they can bring their full, authentic self to the equation. It's a game changer. People feel the affinity they want. They're attracted to that person. They want to know more right.

Speaker 2:

I mean, that is the whole concept of what I'm sharing through Resonate as a podcast and like what is resonance?

Speaker 2:

You know it's when you have that thing that something really is deeply impacting you and that only comes through narrative. It is the only way we have it and it's at the heart of human connection. I think the only trouble is is that we know we've been telling stories for thousands of years. We share stories with our family about you know, or our friends of who went out on a date with and how terrible it was, or that near miss or all the things, and then we go into the corporate context and we suit and boot up and we put on our professional attitude. But I think by doing that we lose all sense of personality and we have this kind of artificial distance that is created. So I think that I totally agree with what you're saying, michelle, about you know sort of breaking that and realizing that like the connection and true power and influence and persuasion that all comes through this medium. So, yes, ignore storytelling to your peril, I think.

Speaker 1:

Well, and I think one of the hard things is we certainly I think it's different for younger generations your son, my son are going through a very different moment in time where their experiences and what we consider the business world are going to be so distinct. But our growing up through the business world was you put on your armor, you put on your mask. You don't share your personal life for sure, and I think the storytelling aspect is, of course, you've got to toe a certain line, but it is breaking open the real you and letting the authentic you show up in the business world the same way it shows up in your personal life, so that you are not distinct persons and fractionalized identities as you're walking through your world, which I think happened for a lot of people. It certainly did for me early in my career.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. I think there's been a big shift towards what it means to bring your whole self to work, and I don't think ever authenticity should be used as an excuse for poor behavior.

Speaker 2:

I think there still is a certain expectation around like a professionalism and doing things well, but it's, let's say, narrowing that gap between the you that you present to the world and the you how you're feeling in that present moment on the inside. And it's daring to have the courage to have those difficult conversations or to go a little bit further. And I think part of it when we talk about the armor, it's our own barriers, it's our own vulnerabilities that get in the way, and I think I've seen this personally because maybe it's through podcasting or otherwise, but I have increasingly found the courage to share those hard stories and I have so much positive feedback from it. And I think this is actually really backed up by research from Amy Cuddy at Harvard University. And one thing that she shares is about the importance of warmth and competence.

Speaker 2:

To be an inspiring and impactful leader, you need to be able to effectively demonstrate both warmth and competence.

Speaker 2:

So what does that mean? That means that you have ways of being warm, like storytelling, like smiling, like making eye contact, like having open palms and gestures with people. But you also need to back that up by being competent and knowing what you're talking about. And the risk is when it's imbalanced. If we have, let's say, a persuasion or a sway towards competence so high in competence but low in warmth we might be highly respected but we won't be liked. So we think of like a typical kind of maybe Elon Musk or Steve Jobs or somebody they're not necessarily liked but they're respected in some ways for their accomplishments and their achievements. Now, if you have the imbalance on the other side towards being high in warmth but low in competence, you might be likable. People will say that he or she is a very nice person, but you're not going to have that respect. So I think we should, as leaders, we should try to have a nice balance of both, and I think that's when they're thinking about storytelling and messaging.

Speaker 1:

What are some of the pitfalls?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I see a few. Let me take the angle of. I'll take both. Let me go first to corporate situations. So I think that can very much depend on your organization and the culture that you're living in in terms of how much people can be more authentic, more open, are there better policies around well-being and social justice, and that is going to have a huge impact on these kind of elements. But I would say if you are in that kind of organization that's a bit more straight-laced, then it's going to be hard for you to bring in much more of the kind of creativity that storytelling would invite you to do, and I think it's going to probably feel like much more of a leap to be vulnerable and to share those stories about your failures or the hardships that you're currently going through, especially in real time. Because I think what I see is that it's easy for people to share stories that are they're long gone, right Done and dusted. I could talk about this difficult relationship I had 10 years ago, because I'm not even in that relationship anymore. It's very easy, but what does it mean to come and show up and to talk about something that's happening right now in my life or very recently? That's different.

Speaker 2:

Now, if we spin over to the entrepreneurship side now, this is a lot of the other work that I do, actually, as you mentioned in the intro, with the coaches and consultants, what I see is a few things. It depends on the personality, I will say is a few things. It depends on the personality, I will say. But I have some people who would be much more leaning towards. I need to have kind of formulas and systems and I need to be highly competent.

Speaker 2:

There's a bit of insecurity around the competency element, so storytelling isn't prioritized and there's a fear around being vulnerable or even just I quite honestly don't know how to do this. You know, I've had, for example, I'm working with a startup right now in bio. I don't even know, quite honestly, bio, informational technology or something. It's such a mouthful. Whatever he does, he's, he's like the classic geek and he admits it right, and a huge PhD knows his stuff created something really cool.

Speaker 2:

But the thing is that nobody understands what it is. And I'm working with him to like, how can we massively simplify what you're doing? Because I don't need to know the ins and outs, but I need to hear the story and I need to hear the. What problem is that going to solve, or how is that going to reduce my pain or give me pleasure in some way? And storytelling really enables people to be able to do that. So that's something else I see, and then otherwise, with more of the coaches and the consultants. It's often not knowing what is the story to share, and I think sometimes people want to. Um sorry, michelle, um, sometimes sorry. Can you just pause?

Speaker 1:

my husband. I just lost him.

Speaker 2:

He just came in. I just totally lost my train of thought um where was I? Um you were talking about storytelling simpl stories.

Speaker 1:

Helping people to really understand some of these complex for example, the startup that you're working with and really helping audiences recognize the storytelling element can help.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, okay, so for the coaches okay, so I'll scoot back over to that. Okay, so for the coaches okay, so I'll scoot back over to that. So then I also see, with the kind of coaches and the consultants that I work, they will often recognize the importance of having that kind of signature story, that origin story, but often not know which one to share or how to share it. And I think that comes up a lot too. And I think what helps in guiding that is knowing, actually zooming out and first considering who are your people, because audience really matters, it's we're not sharing our story to sort of get everything off of our own chest.

Speaker 2:

I mean, sure, that could be something in terms of your own healing, but in a business context it needs to be much more about well, why am I sharing this story and who am I telling it to? And there's a purpose there behind it, and it could be inspirational or aspirational. You know, if there's a story of overcoming of overcoming adversity in some respects, that people who could be your prospects, your clients, they can see something in you that they aspire to have themselves, and then what you need to do is you need to go much more back towards who was I at that point in time, where I was in that situation and what were the steps that I took that have led me here? So that's something I commonly see with coaches and consultants.

Speaker 1:

I'd say, well you just opened up a lovely gateway to talk about your signature talk and I think I know what story you're going to share. But you could surprise me as well. I'd love to hear, because I think that's where a lot of coaches and consultants do get stuck. They want to talk about their origin story and, quite frankly, their origin story may or may not support their business angle and you have to be very selective. Again, it could be great for their own personal healing to tell that origin story, but unless there is an actual connective thread to the work they're doing today, it might not be the right story to tell at that point when you're pitching a business.

Speaker 1:

So, let's talk about yours, because I have a feeling I know it, but I'm open to being surprised. Talk to us a little bit about your signature keynote, that you walk in with business, because I think people will learn a lot in seeing how it connects to the work you're doing.

Speaker 2:

Yes. So I think something I just want to mention there that you said was about the connective thread. I love that, the way that you just described that, because it is so true. The thing is we, both of us, and everyone listening we have thousands of stories to tell that we don't. We don't, inherently. Some have have some origin story, and what does that even mean? Do I do I tell you about the you know me being a child running around the Australian bush? Or do I you know what do I tell you about my year in Paris while I was on exchange? Like no, that there is a. They might be relevant at some point, but as long as it's linked to a message, that is, has that direct meaning or impact in that moment. Now, it could be a few things, but a message that or a story that I frequently share.

Speaker 2:

This is part of one of my keynotes called the Power of Storytelling in Business, and I speak about, as I sort of mentioned in the start, about not knowing in the crossroads, because that led me to the podcast, which is often what I use. I found that having the podcast for one has given me a lot of credibility as a speaking coach because it shows, obviously, my expertise and consistency I think also by doing it for such a long time, and the amount of people I've had on and so forth. But I share the story of how I actually became a public speaking coach. So I'll share that with you now because it did quite honestly change my life. It was this huge intuitive moment where I could not deny that I just had to put this into action and get out of my absolute overthinking mode of trying to plan for all the things and be like, okay, I'm just going to go for it. So I had this moment. As I mentioned at the start, I live in Switzerland, so I live in a beautiful area, actually Verve Lake, geneva.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to interrupt just for a moment because I happen to have done some sleuthing and seen some videos from Shannon's house, and so when she talks about beautiful surroundings, she lives in the idyllic mountains on a lake. It's gorgeous, it's beyond what you think, the best picture you have in your head, it still doesn't beat what she actually lives.

Speaker 2:

I totally agree with that. I don't even know how I life. I ended up here, quite honestly, that's another story to share, but the one I will share was that. So I moved over to Switzerland in 2021. As I explained, I wasn't sure what to do with my work and so forth, and I had this podcast on route that was doing well, but I was never driven to kind of monetize it or I didn't know what the plan was and at some point I thought, okay, I'm going to be realistic and I'm going to go get a job. So I ended up getting an interview in Geneva, about an hour or so away from where I live, and it was unexpected. I think the employer got back in touch a couple of months after I did the application. So I quite honestly forgot that I even did it, but thought I'll go ahead anyway and see what comes of it.

Speaker 2:

So there I was on the train one morning on the way to this interview and I was reading a book very unrelated to public speaking. I think it was something to do with intuition and accessing our intuition irony. And I remember sitting and reading this book and turning a page and I read these lines at the top of a page that said something to the effect of helping people overcome their fear of public speaking, and at the moment I read those lines, I just went, huh, I think I could do that, I think that's something I would like to do. And at that exact moment that I had that thought, the train pulled into a stop and there was a man walking up to the second floor of the train and he was wearing a t-shirt with the words on that read use your instincts. Even right now, I have these huge chills that come up on my arms and I just had this flood of energy. It was just I can't even describe it more than chills, goosebumps everywhere, huge energy. I was like, oh my gosh, that's it, that's it.

Speaker 2:

And it was funny because I sat on this train and I was scribbling in my diary like all of my ideas, and I think the guy opposite me said you're very happy, you're very happy. And I think the guy opposite me said you're very happy, you're very happy, you know. And I think I just had this energy that I don't usually have, quite honestly, and I thought I have a feeling I'm going to share this story one day. I'm going to go and ask this poor guy. If I can get a photo of his t-shirt with him and this is one of the things that I put in my keynote and it's his. I think he was sick, bless him. So I said like sorry, can I interrupt? But this moment was just. I just know that it's going to change my life. I got that photo, it's in my keynote and, needless to say, I didn't show up to the interview with the best amount of energy for that thing, but what it did lead me to was a business that is just flowing.

Speaker 2:

There's something just incredible about flow, about flowing with life and moving a direction. And there were other routes that I was going down that just felt like hard work all the time and I was unsure about it. I was overthinking, I was blocked a lot, I was more emotional about what I was doing, and then something about this was just opportunities are coming at me all the time. There's just an openness to it and it doesn't mean to say that there's no hard work behind the scenes, but I'm just getting many prospects, I'm getting companies to suggest things to me, I'm now traveling internationally. It just works. So I think that that is a message I share for my own story, but also to really give people that confidence, I think, and that trust in knowing that there is a timing and there is a right thing. And I think sometimes it takes a bit more patience than we think to set us on that track, but when it happens, you absolutely know. Think to set us on that track, but when it happens, you absolutely know.

Speaker 1:

It's an absolutely beautiful story and, as everyone listening to the podcast knows, we don't believe in coincidences over here.

Speaker 1:

We know that everything does happen for a reason and you have those moments of divine inspiration, universal source of saying hey, wake up, it's here for you, and I love that.

Speaker 1:

You recognized the difference between, I think, what so many very intellectual people do, which is start to push the proverbial boulder up the hill, thinking it's through hard work, sweat equity and difficulties that then good things happen, versus recognizing that it can be in a flow state. Again doesn't mean that there isn't hard work and elbow grease to be done, but there's something about this flow and energetic exchange which I always say, I believe is when you have this balance between the divine feminine energies that we all have and the masculine energies that we all have, and the masculine energies that we all have, so many of us and I think this goes for working moms in particular are usually overwhelmed with masculine get it done, do energy, and so to kind of step back and recognize that there's a divine feminine aspect of receipt, of intuition, receipt of ideas, receipt. There's a possibility that that is, if you're in tune to it, what happens, and so I think it's just a beautiful story and it fits so nicely with the work that you're doing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. It was an undeniable synchronicity, that's for sure.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, what do you think has been one of the most surprising aspects of the entrepreneurial journey for you? Things that perhaps in the corporate world, you were not attuned to or just not aware of. We're always going 150 miles an hour usually in those states of being, going 150 miles an hour usually in those states of being. But now you're in this entrepreneurial space. It's been a few years, you've seen things. Now You've been in and out of several companies. What maybe surprised you? That you weren't anticipating.

Speaker 2:

Hmm, what surprised me? Good or bad surprise? Either way, your choice. Either way, I think there's so many things. There's so many things, I think, ultimately, something I've loved about the entrepreneurial journey that I perhaps didn't expect to the same degree I was attracted by freedom and being creative and being allowed to do my own thing. That definitely called to me. I think what I didn't anticipate was the extent to which I would meet my own weaknesses, and it is especially when you're starting something on your own.

Speaker 2:

It's very different. We speak about entrepreneurship in a large way, but it's not like I'm an entrepreneur of a big tech company with 200 employees. No, I've started out being a coach on my own and doing things online and doing my podcast and doing social media and that. I think I've had to wear so many hats and I think there are so many lessons that I've learned that I would never I. I mean, I love who I've become in the process of this and I think that's just such a good surprise. I think it's been so incredibly healing because I have done the work alongside the challenges, basically, and sometimes they are mindset. Sometimes they are mindset, sometimes they are emotional, sometimes, I think, healing from your past. Sometimes they're real pragmatic things like how you implement effective systems.

Speaker 1:

I was going to say learning the systems needed to make this all work right.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I mean, Michelle, I am not a systems girl. I am like, if you want me to come and help you work out your signature story, give a killer keynote speech, I'm your girl. I am like, if you want me to come and help you work out your signature story, give a killer keynote speech, I'm your girl, I'm all over that. If you want me to have like the most structured, organized system for the backend logistics of the business, like that has, that is my boulder uphill, I'll be sitting in for that too Totally. And.

Speaker 1:

I think that that's something you have to accept, right? We can't be perfect in all things. You can't be sitting there going. I know so much about everything that my zone of genius is everything. It wouldn't be a zone of genius, right?

Speaker 2:

that's the whole point, exactly exactly. I think there's something in really working on your strengths, choosing to hone in on that one thing that you're really good at, and for me that has been this thing around storytelling and speaking. It comes much more naturally to me than other people and I seem to get really great feedback all the time. That means that there's just, you know, this one initial contract I got with Nespresso I've since had four others for like four times the price internationally, etc. And that just came organically and I think that was because it was just evidence I was working in my absolute zone of genius. But then what I've also done and I would encourage other people to do the same is at least at the start, when you might find that money is more tight, tight, you have to work on your own weaknesses right until you get to that point where you can outsource things. Now, if you suck at it and you absolutely hate it, I definitely encourage you to delegate that in some way.

Speaker 2:

It was something I didn't do at the start.

Speaker 2:

I think I was so concentrated on doing everything myself, but now I'm much more like no, I actually need assistance with that thing and no, I don't have to be everything, and the more that I can spend time in that zone of genius doing my thing and getting paid for it, the more my business will expand. So really something to be said there for like complementarity and understanding, even self-awareness, like understanding your yourself, what you're good at, what you're not, what you like, what you don't. And part of that is experimenting, because you're not going to, you're not always going to know until you actually do it. And sometimes you think, you, you, sometimes you think and I think that's what I thought myself was like I know that I definitely think this is a good thing to do.

Speaker 2:

On paper it sounded great and then I did. I was like that was awful. I remember when I came, I was like, oh God. I remember when I came, I was like, oh God. I remember I had this like new concept for my podcast of doing resonate behind the scenes and I really wanted to speak with successful entrepreneurs, coaches, consultants about how they've scaled their businesses and be much more about like the strategic system structure aspect, because it's often a weakness among the coaches and consultants and other entrepreneurs.

Speaker 2:

And then I said, okay, I'm going to make this bite-sized and do 15 minute episodes. I was anxious the whole time. I just could not not look at the clock and then I realized I was absolutely not present because I was just stressed about getting all the information out in time. I thought that's really interesting because on paper it seemed like somewhat of a logical decision to do for various reasons, and yet it was totally unaligned with who I am, and that is part of the learning too. So I think it's being willing to experiment, to pivot, to adapt and to fail and fast.

Speaker 1:

I love that. Now you said something at the beginning of talking about your entrepreneurial journey and what allured you, or what really pulled you in, which I think is, for most people, the ability to have more freedom, creativity, really work on things that you're aligned with. Did you ever or are you going through this come across a time where you actually are working more than you did in the corporate environment and then you realize, hey, wait, that freedom that I was seeking. I am working on all the things that I'm interested in, but I actually am tying up more of my time than I ever realized.

Speaker 2:

Oh, absolutely oh, all the time, all the time.

Speaker 2:

And there and I there's a few things.

Speaker 2:

This is why I'm so passionate about the self-development aspect of entrepreneurship as well, because you have to get good at setting boundaries, and that was something that I was not good at originally.

Speaker 2:

In fact, I'm still not great at it, but I'm much better than I was and I recognize they were things like I have to have a shutdown kind of system in the evening, I have to have to have a shutdown kind of cut off time and I have something in my calendar that is like a non, a non-negotiable.

Speaker 2:

In fact I might even like pull it up so you can see, because I think sometimes it's like actually being strategic about what you have in the calendar. Otherwise you just can you risk always thinking about all the things, basically, and you never have that time to fully make that separation between work and life, which is much more distinct when you're in a typical workplace, right, like you can kind of shut off and you can kind of go home, whereas if you yeah, I find the entrepreneurship journey will mean that the boundaries are much more blurred journey will will mean that the boundaries are much more blurred, so your level of discipline has to be higher, and what I think I didn't realize and it's part of my own learning and many other coaches and that that I work with is, in many ways, discipline is freedom.

Speaker 1:

It truly is. Yeah, yeah, I used to reject it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, go ahead, go ahead. So I say I was going to say I used to reject it, yeah, go ahead, go ahead. So I say I was going to say I used to reject this idea and I thought that the kind of discipline and the rules and the structure was confining ultimately and that was depriving me of the liberty that I was seeking. But now I realize that it is so much better to optimize your systems and have things set in place that really mean that that time off that you have there's a reason why you started this you can fully enjoy. So, as an example that I was going to mention about having like this shutdown routine, there's a little kind of practical tip that I have, which is I'll have this specific time to the end of end of my work day, or what I'd say end of yourday, non-negotiable. Then you block out 15 minutes before that end time for this routine. So what I would do in those 15 minutes before the end of the day I would review your task list, I would update it and then I'd get clear on what it is that you need to do the following day. So I think one kind of tip is that I don't know if you've ever heard that saying about like eat the frog, like start the next day with deep flow work, that you is kind of almost like a non-negotiable too.

Speaker 2:

It's much easier to do something the harder thing first thing in the morning and really, if you can kind of close the distractions, go hard on that one thing that makes all the other things redundant basically for the rest of the day.

Speaker 2:

Go hard on that one thing that makes all the other things redundant basically for the rest of the day, like that was the most important thing you could do. And then I would finish the day by like closing all of my tabs on my, tidying up my workspace and then saying something like shut down complete, because I was real, like just something simple, like it's a simple ritual, but being like shut down complete. And then it's like no, I'm not thinking about how I need to get michelle on the podcast and send that email back to that thing, or get that over to my accountant, or in the evening or when I'm spending time with my son. You know, one of the things for me was I can be here when he comes home from school and that's such a privilege. I don't have to have a long commute to work. I do so much online and from home with flexibility, like remember my why so massive.

Speaker 1:

I love that and I think this is really great advice for new entrepreneurs in particular, because I think what happens is when you're just starting and you haven't yet gotten into that place where you have sustainable income, sustainable projects that you're working on, there's this tendency to go all in all the time, and the problem with that is we both know and look, I'm saying this because I've experienced it, I may be experiencing it right now, and I think what we forget is if you don't have that shutdown time and if you are not being really respectful of your own need to restore your energy, to get enough sleep, you can't be in service of your business, you can't be the best for your clients, you're not going to be as creative as you want to be and it's just not going to be a great experience.

Speaker 1:

And that's, I think, one of the most difficult things for new entrepreneurs, because they're like well, I've got so much to do, yes, but you also need to pace it, and I think that that is one of the things that most entrepreneurs suffer from is a lack of patience. It does take time and when you are used to a lot of these folks that are entering in this space or have come and were very successful in other walks of life and are expecting immediate results, and when that doesn't happen, you see a lot of burnout really quickly.

Speaker 2:

So I love.

Speaker 1:

I love, if you haven't and we'll make, of course, sure that you have links. Everyone can go check out not only Sharon's podcast but also her IG account, because I think it's just a testament that she's living her business. You see that one of the systems that she works really hard on and I think where she has a lot of discipline is on her health and that space of like going to the gym, being out on the water, um, being very mindful that the you know meat suit that we're all in is something that needs to house all the things she's doing as part of this business as well, and it's part of the systems that you have to be attuned to and take care of.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, there's something that we've honestly lost as adults is simplicity. It's marvelous because, you know, I look at what I teach my son, like he's six years old basic books, basic ideas, like even a bedtime routine, like let's. You know, he brushes his teeth, he puts his pajamas on, we lay down in bed, we take a few deep breaths, we say what we're grateful for, we read a story that has become something that even he holds me accountable to now, actually, when he's like no mom, this is our routine. But I realize that we neglect the basics, but the basics are where it's all at, it's like 80% at least, and the rest is just the sprinkling on top. But really it's doing the basics well and almost being quite non-negotiable about them, with some flexibility. But, yeah, just take care of yourself ultimately, especially what you said, michelle, about being sustainable.

Speaker 2:

Because I think, when you have that perspective, that when you're starting this business, what's changed for me is the perspective on how long I'm in this. For I think when I first started, because I felt more insecure about whether it was going to be successful or not, I felt like I was taking everything day by day and feeling like I just brought an urgency all the time to what I was doing. That meant I was bathing in mild stress on a daily basis and now, if I can kind of zoom out and be like hold on a second, I am planting seeds for my prosperity for years to come. It just calms my nervous system. It's like, okay, I can pause, I can take a breath and I can take those two days to learn a new customer relationship management system, which is what I'm currently doing, and it's kind of pulling my hair out, but it's like I can do it with a bit more. Like, okay, I see the benefit of doing this in the long term.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, I love that. You know I often talk about the importance of owning your story. So we talked about storytelling. We've been talking about it throughout this conversation, but I also want to bring up something that I feel very strongly about and get your thoughts on but this idea of owning your story.

Speaker 1:

A lot of us come to whatever we're working on and doing in our life with a story that's running in our minds 24-7 about who we are, what we're capable of and what we deserve, and so often that story isn't actually serving us. And so one of the things I do with clients is sit down and say, okay, tell me that story that's playing. That's been playing probably since you were seven years old. In the backdrop of your mind it's the movie, right, and they're like I don't know what story you're talking. I'm like, no, you do, because you've bought into it on some level. So tell me what that is, because if you know and you can identify what the story is, we can change the plot line if it's not serving you. And it's fascinating to me how often once we're like to me, how often once we're like, oh yeah, I was once told that I wasn't very good at X, and so, as a result, I guess I've just never even tried it or even pursued it anymore, because somebody told me I wasn't good at it and I've had some shameful feelings about it and I've avoided that and that's kept me and precluded me from why, whatever that is. And when we sit down and we say, okay, so what's a new storyline, what do you really want? And let's create a new story that matches that, and they're like, is it that easy? Do I just come up with a new story? And then like, it is that easy, you can come up with a new story. Now, look, not everybody's going to become the next ballerina and you know the ballet company or what have you. But to the most extent, some of these things that we're talking about are just how you see yourself in the world and what's possible for you, and they're only the restraints in your mind. And so, when you're willing, I'll give you an example For me as the oldest of three.

Speaker 1:

I come from very humble beginnings in rural America. My parents were teenagers when they had me and my parents were incredibly hardworking, though I think there was a little bit of like odds stacked against us, and Michelle is going to be sort of the one who sets the bar and changes the story for the family and I carried that around. It was a really heavy burden. I have younger siblings and I did. I did massive amounts of things that nobody had done before and becoming an ambassadorial scholar and getting scholarships for this school and that school and job offers, and traveling internationally and living overseas and learning new and breaking all these barriers and creating a new money story for our family.

Speaker 1:

But there came a point in time where I was still living that that was my identity and that's what I needed to do, and my siblings were already well-established in their own fields so I was no longer paving ways for young kids behind me. I had an attorney for a brother and a therapist for a sister and they were already making their own inroads in their own careers. And I had to stop and say I'm putting an incredible amount of pressure on me. That does not there's. The story doesn't apply anymore. I need to change my story and I need to decide what I want. Moving forward right the ownership of now I'm an adult. How am I going to change my story? With a simple awakening of the story that I've been told and that I've been telling myself for 20 years is no longer working and it's no longer needed. And boom, as soon as I started writing new storylines, it was like quantum leaps into new arenas, but I had to see myself in a new story.

Speaker 2:

Tell me a little bit about your pets.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that is I. Actually. I find that really really touching, really touching and I think, because we can all relate to that. We can all relate to it. You know it's part of the journey of our own development, I suppose, to when, when something isn't working for you and it's it's hurting you ultimately much more than it's helping. Do I know what my story is? I think it's. It's probably adapted. I I certainly had humble beginnings too. I didn't know my dad, my, in fact, didn't know I was born until I was 19. So that was a big part of my story.

Speaker 2:

Raised by a single mother, we moved around a lot and I think I created a narrative around I need to be on the move to be safe.

Speaker 2:

I need to be on the move to be safe and actually, since I've I've married my husband, I've made this commitment of living in Switzerland, there's there's been something that's been incredibly grounding for me, I think and sorry, yeah, very, very grounding and and it's opening up a whole new level of possibility from from a place of safety. Actually, I think it really got me big into what it means to for your nervous system to feel safe, because I was used to being the one who could cope with different situations. You could throw me in any situation. I would manage, because I learned how to do it well. I learned how to be social, I learned how to be independent and now actually asking for help, saying I need support, I need to be looked after, like those things have been really deeply nourishing and I think that has helped me to in all areas of my life actually as a mother, as a wife, as a business owner. That's been huge.

Speaker 1:

I love that. That's so beautiful and I think so many particularly strong women entrepreneurs, I think, suffer from that. We're so used to being the doers and making things happen. I remember when I'd made the decision a couple of years back that I was going to go into this entrepreneurial journey, and that I was going to go into this entrepreneurial journey and that I was going to be relinquishing some sense of control I had as a corporate executive walking into this arena and there would be some sort of reliance or dependence on my husband and at first that made me incredibly nervous and I was like we've been married almost 20 years. What is your problem?

Speaker 1:

But again it was the and it's a perception, it wasn't even real, you know of like letting it go and letting us play the different roles we can play for each other in our lives and how it can nourish and grow the other person as much as it's benefiting you. I think is a really wonderful way to look at it as well. My husband has taken a whole new role in our family in a way that I probably edged him out a bit in my previous roles because I was always the one traveling and I was always the one that needed to go and had an important engagement, and now I am actually home a lot more than I used to be and can play a different role in our family. So we have a little bit of like shifting of roles, in a way that's allowing us to see ourselves in new lights, which I think is always nice as well.

Speaker 1:

That is that is. And new lights, which I think is always nice as well. That is that is. Tell me about your son. We both have only children. We both have boys. Mine's a little bit older, he's a senior in high school, but I remember and I'm very curious to hear about your son. Well, on his reaction to your life.

Speaker 1:

My son, during COVID, was a middle schooler and at one point he walked in. He was very familiar with my work life because I think, as an only child growing up in a metropolitan area like Washington DC, I had to take him to a lot of things that I wouldn't have normally done. He was around a lot of adults, a lot of white table dinners and business environments where people are like just bring it on because it's okay, and I was like this seems weird. So he's grown up in this very sophisticated environment of the business world. But he walked into my office one day. He was listening to me talk to a client and I was working on something that was actually on the front lines of COVID response. So I was very engaged. It was very exciting. But he said are you on mute, mommy? And I said yeah, I am, why? And he goes, you need to do something else. And we're going what do you mean? He's like you're a great writer, you're a great speaker and you have just repeated yourself for the last 15 minutes about 50 times and they're not hearing you. And I remember just stopping going. Wow, he's really listening and he's watching and he goes please write the book already, like we need you to do something big. And it was really funny because I am doing something big, you know, and had this sense of like you know, and he's like yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, but he's like we, we know you can do that.

Speaker 1:

And since I took the leap, can I just tell you, shannon, it's changed his outlook on work himself. I never knew he had any interest in anything I did. In fact, he was much more STEM and science oriented and now he's saying things like when I go to university, I want to study business and I'm very interested in marketing and I'm going to be. He just joined a public speaking group. He wants to be an entrepreneur. And I'm sitting here going who is this child? Is he mine? Surprising me constantly. And the most important words I think I've heard him say during all this is mom, I'm really proud of you.

Speaker 2:

That is so sweet. Yeah, there's something about that as a mom, isn't it? It's so touching, so touching, and I think that what an important role we have in that respect. Such a privilege Pressure too, sometimes.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely respect such a privilege.

Speaker 2:

pressure too sometimes yeah, absolutely, but such a privilege and such beauty as well. No, I see it, my.

Speaker 2:

I think my son, in his very uh, innocent young mind, is like my mummy does podcasts and like he says it with a level of like pride and doesn't really understand, but has, uh, been up for doing a little mini recording with me and takes it very seriously and is very cute about it. So I think I think there is a part where where he's proud and and sees me and also my husband David, doing entrepreneurship basically, and I think there is it, does it, does it does spark those ideas for sure.

Speaker 1:

It's such an exciting place. Shannon, I just want to thank you for taking the time today to come on the show. It's been an absolute pleasure getting to know you better and hearing more about your story and having you share your perspective on storytelling and the entrepreneurial journey with us.

Speaker 2:

Thank you. It's been such a pleasure too, michelle, so lovely.

Speaker 1:

I cannot wait for October to roll around so we can start to listen to Resonate, and we'll make sure we have the link in the show notes and everyone can go check it out, and I look forward to seeing what comes next.

Speaker 2:

Yes, thank you very much, all right.

Speaker 1:

Until next time, everyone, go and live your extraordinary life.

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Michelle Rios

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