Live Your Extraordinary Life With Michelle Rios

Thriving as an Introverted Entrepreneur with Nicole Kepic

• Michelle Rios

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Nicole Kepic, an accomplished copywriter and fresh-faced author, graces our podcast to share her journey as an introverted entrepreneur navigating the bustling world of online business. Get ready to uncover the secrets behind her new book, "Don't Ask Me to Be Loud: The Introverted Girl's Guide to Online Business," which sheds light on how introverts can thrive without pretending to be someone they're not. Nicole invites us into a heartfelt conversation about finding fulfillment through service, the art of crafting meaningful connections, and the unexpected beauty of quiet leadership.

As we explore Nicole's world, we challenge stereotypes by highlighting how introverts possess the unique ability to lead with quiet confidence and thoughtful engagement. With anecdotes that resonate with introverts and extroverts alike, we discuss how embracing one's innate personality traits can become a powerful asset in both entrepreneurship and leadership. Nicole's transition from corporate life to the entrepreneurial realm serves as an inspiring blueprint for those seeking more freedom, flexibility, and authenticity in their careers.

We dive into the essentials of impactful copywriting, emphasizing the importance of understanding your audience and honing your brand's core values. Nicole shares her expertise on crafting compelling narratives that resonate and build trust. Our conversation also touches on the emotional side of entrepreneurship, exploring how personal experiences, including loss, shape our professional journeys. Join us as we celebrate authenticity, resilience, and the extraordinary impact of leading a life true to oneself.

WAYS TO CONNECT WITH ME:

Speaker 1:

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Speaker 2:

Sometimes it's easy to think how am I going to stand out in this arena if I have a quieter personality? If I don't have this big, bold personality, how are people going to find me and notice me and choose me if I'm not as loud as everyone else?

Speaker 1:

Hi, I'm Michelle Rios, host of the Live your Extraordinary Life podcast. This podcast is built on the premise that life is meant to be joyful, but far too often we settle for less. So if you've ever thought that something is missing from your life, that you were meant for more, or you simply want to experience more joy in the everyday, then this podcast is for you. Each week, I'll bring you captivating personal stories, transformative life lessons and juicy conversations on living life to the fullest, with the hope to inspire you to create a life you love on your terms, with authenticity, purpose and connection, on your terms with authenticity, purpose and connection. Together, we'll explore what it means to live an extraordinary life, the things that hold us back and the steps we all can take to start living our best lives. So come along for the journey. It's never too late to get started and the world needs your light, your light. Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Live your Extraordinary Life podcast.

Speaker 1:

I'm your host, michelle Rios, and today I am so, so pleased to be able to introduce you to a dear friend of mine, nicole Kepik. Nicole is a copywriter by trade. She has recently written a book. The book is called Don't Ask Me to Be Loud, the Introverted Girl's Guide to Online Business, and I just am so excited. I have so many questions and I can't wait to delve in. So, nicole, welcome to the show show.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, Michelle. I am super excited too. I think I answered your DM invitation in record time. Like as soon as you said, hey, do you want to be on my podcast? I was like, yes, please count me in.

Speaker 1:

This is an easy answer. The truth be told, nicole and I go back a little bit, because Nicole actually helped me with my website Nicole was the first and only person that I reached out to help me with my copy. I was beginning to think about my brand and my own space online a couple years ago now and I was told do not pass, go, do not collect $200. There's only one copywriter you need to speak to. She will interview you, she will get inside your head, she will get to know you and that is Nicole. And I was like where must I find this magical person? And that was it, like our friendship was struck and I was so impressed with everything that you've done to help me with my brand, and so I'm so excited for you in this book. So congratulations on the book, and I would love for you to just start with where I start with all my guests, which is what does it mean to you, nicole, to live your extraordinary life?

Speaker 2:

Extraordinary life. Okay, I did think about this and you know what's funny? My first thought goes to the movie. It's a Wonderful Life. It keeps going back to that movie and, admittedly, I have not watched it in a few years. I used to watch it with my family every single Christmas.

Speaker 2:

But I just think of the main character and how he thought his life was meaningless, wasn't worth anything, and then it was revealed to him hopefully I'm not giving anything away here that he had impacted so many people throughout his life without even knowing it. There is this really remarkable ripple effect and I remember thinking that is extraordinary, and maybe this sounds selfish or maybe morbid, but I thought when I pass away someday like when I'm 99, I would love to look down from heaven and see a room full of people who said Nicole really impacted my life, or she brought joy, or she impacted me in a big or small way, and so that always stuck with me. And so when I think of an extraordinary life, I think of making an impact not just on your own self, your own immediate family, but on other people around you. So yeah, a bit cheesy maybe, but that's what I think of.

Speaker 1:

You know, not only not cheesy, but I think it's what most people have come to realize, people who at least have been out in the world and lived a certain amount of time right Like. I talk about this a lot, but early on in my life it was all about achievement, that and you know this because you know a lot about my story but how can I make a dent in the world from an achievement standpoint? And then everything will fall into place. And while I think a lot of us have had the privilege of living long enough to have achieved a lot of different things, that in and of itself wasn't what made me fulfilled. And so, thinking about it from a how may I serve? What kind of impact can I have in this world? Definitely for me, transformed the way I show up in the world, and so you are among like folk on that front, nicole.

Speaker 1:

So many people have come on the show and said once I figured out that my story or my gifts, or my trials and tribulations could actually be in service to others, I started to have purpose, and that just changes everything. All those things that we thought, god, I don't want anyone to know about my challenges, or my trials and tribulations or foibles or whatever, end up oftentimes being the thing that brings us closer to others. And on that front, I want you to talk a little bit, because I know you to be a quieter soul, an introvert as they say. So what was the impetus for you to go ahead and write this book? Obviously, it's targeted at introverted women right, an introverted girl's guide to online business. But, as I shared with you as I read this book, I kept thinking I'm not a full, wholehearted introvert and this has so much meaning for me full, wholehearted introvert and this has so much meaning for me.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, okay, where did this start?

Speaker 2:

I just shared on my stories today how I wanted to write a book back when I was 20 years old and I didn't know what it was going to be about, but I wanted to write a book. So this has been on my heart for a while and I remember thinking back then we were just chatting about this too how when you're in your 20s, you think somebody who's 30 is so old, yes, super old. And so here I was, around 20 and I wanted to write a book. And I remember thinking I better write this fast because I don't want to be 30, that's so old writing a book and have an old picture of me on the back cover of the book like, which sounds so vain because obviously 30 is not old. But for whatever reason, I didn't write a book back then.

Speaker 2:

And then you know, life happens you have kids, career, all these things. And then, now that I've been in full-time entrepreneurship for a few years, I had that idea, that magic end to write a book. And at first the idea was to write just a copywriting book, since that's what I do. Obviously it makes sense. It makes sense for my business funnel. But then I just wanted it to be a bit more holistic in the sense of covering things that we experience every day as entrepreneurs. So having to market yourself, having to create a brand, having to price your services and sell your services, and all the mindset stuff that comes up. So that's where my book idea kind of melded into.

Speaker 2:

And then from there I thought why not tell it through the lens of an introvert? Because, like you said, I am an introvert, I'm a quieter person and there are some challenges being an introvert in the online space, because the online space can be really loud and bold and sometimes easy to think how am I going to stand out in this arena if I have a quieter personality? If I don't have this big, bold personality? How are people going to find me and notice me and choose me if I'm not as loud as everyone else, which I see now as a bit of scarcity mindset? There's some thinking in that like there's not enough for everyone or you know I'm not going to stand out. But those were my original thoughts and I wanted to write a book that essentially told introverts you don't have to change who you are. You can be your quiet, confident self and still have a business that's thriving and joyful and attracts clients you adore and pay you well to.

Speaker 1:

So spoiler alert for everybody who has not yet had an opportunity to pick up a copy of Nicole's book. It is not just for introverts, it is for anyone contemplating a business, online entrepreneurism the lessons, the stories, the advice and the counsel in this book from Nicole's own experiences really apply to anybody. So while introverts united absolutely on this front, my husband was all excited because he's an introvert too. I said this is written for me, this is for anyone. So I'm actually just so you know, getting copies for all of my girlfriends. So their Galentine's gifts are going to be a copy of Nicole's book. So my personal little group of high power women are all getting a copy of Don't Ask Me To Be Loud the Introverted Girl's Guide to Online Business.

Speaker 1:

I think it's so accessible. I've read so many business books over the years, so accessible. I've read so many business books over the years and I'm telling you guys, go get yourself a coffee, because Nicole's conversational tone, very approachable style of writing just draws you in. You get to know a lot about Nicole and as a quieter soul, I have known you for a while and did not know a lot that came out in this book. So that was, first of all, just a joy to get to know you better, but the counsel and the advice for most of us, I think, will be really warm, welcomed reminders that it's okay, there's no wrong way to do this, but there are some guidelines on how to do it better, and that's what I loved about this book. So there's something in here for everyone, introverts and extroverts alike.

Speaker 2:

I appreciate that, and as we were chatting about earlier my husband's reading the book and he said the same thing, he said, yeah, this applies to everyone introverts, extroverts, men or women I said, okay, sorry, but we cannot change the title now. Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1:

You might have to have come out with another book. You might have to have a follow-up book, second edition, or something this is true, this could be the start of my author career.

Speaker 2:

Right your series.

Speaker 1:

Exactly All right. So one of the things I learned in this book, which actually almost floored me because I had no idea, is that you were a twin.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yes, I am. I share a fun story in the book. I am a twin, a fraternal twin. So my twin sister, she and I look nothing alike Like I have. I mean, I have a bit of bronzer on here, but I have pretty much pasty white skin and she has this nice olive complexion. She always looks like she just came back from Mexico. So that, oh wow, yes, oh yeah, the darker hair, darker eyebrows, but apparently we have the same eyes. That's the thing. That's like. Ok, you are not switched at birth. You two are sisters. You are twins.

Speaker 1:

And your mom had no idea she was having twins.

Speaker 2:

No, so she was a single mother at the time. She went to the hospital thinking she was just having one baby, but, alas, I thought I came out after. So my sister was born and then you know something to the effect of oh wait, there's another baby in here and there I was making my glorious debut. So I've asked her, and I don't know if she just either she didn't have any ultrasounds or I think she had one, but our heartbeats were in tandem. So you know, this is back in the late 70s. I don't, I can't speak for the technology, but yeah, she just thought she was having one baby. She had both of us. So quite the shock.

Speaker 2:

So tell me where you grew up, because I know you're from Canada, I know you live in Canada, but your son actually has gone to college here in the States. I mean, I just I remember those early years with my mom. She was a single mom until we were seven and then she married my dad and he raised us, adopted us legally as his own, and then we have another younger sister and brother. But yeah, I talk about my mom a lot in the book. I guess I do. I give her a lot of credit.

Speaker 1:

And what I was so impressed about is that, for somebody whose mom wasn't expecting two babies and was a single mom doing it alone for the first seven years, you talk very positively about your childhood, that it was a really warm upbringing.

Speaker 1:

I love the stories of your mom taking you, to you and your sister, to church in your matching dresses and then going to Tim Hortons for donuts after church and I just thought, wow, it couldn't have been easy for your mom being a single mom, raising two little girls same age by themselves, even now in today's age, raising twins with two parents at home, but going all the way back then with less help, less technology or what have you. I don't know if technology is helpful or not in raising kids anymore, but it just seemed like such a daunting option or possibility and you have such fond memories of growing up, which was so uplifting to read about, because it's not something that you commonly hear. Particularly if your mom was a single mom, it must have been harder to do all of this stuff on her own. So kudos to your mom. First of all, kudos to your mom?

Speaker 2:

I hope for sure. Yeah, it's funny. Recently I was in this women's group. It was a church group and so many people in the room. It was actually kind of sad. So many of the women in the room spoke about not feeling loved as they grew up or feeling like not having a strong sense of self or being told that they weren't worthy, and I just remember being shocked by this and this sounds maybe entitled because I didn't know that so many women experienced this or thought about themselves in this way and it just really gave me pause and made me think I had such a wonderful upbringing in the sense that obviously my mom wouldn't have had a ton of money at that time. We didn't have all the things, but I always felt love, I always felt worthy and a strong sense of self. So, yes, I'm quiet but I'm also confident and I think she gave that to me, especially in those formative years.

Speaker 1:

But I'm also confident and I think she gave that she was enough, as things were, or at least she didn't pass on those senses of insecurities and maybe lack of fulfillment onto you, which I think is hard for a lot of parents. I had teenage parents. It was not easy, I'm the oldest. There was just a lot of baggage that went with that role, under those circumstances that then had to be processed over time to realize like, oh wait, hold on, this is not who you are, this is what you went through and you can make different choices. So your mom sounds like an incredible woman and what a blessing. Well, she would love to hear that she has recently started listening to my podcast so the ones that I'm guesting on.

Speaker 2:

So she will probably listen to this one and will be delighted to hear that. She has recently started listening to my podcast so the ones that I'm guesting on. So she will probably listen to this one and will be delighted to hear that. Well, mom, you did great.

Speaker 1:

You did great. We love Nicole and we love that Nicole had such a wonderful, supportive and loving upbringing, because you've raised a confident and phenomenal woman who's helping so many others. So well done, mom, thank you.

Speaker 2:

Thank you to mom.

Speaker 1:

So you talk about the fact that there are a few things that we need to recognize. I wanna get into the whole introverted piece of this because I do wanna get onto other parts of the book. But what are some of the myths that really trip up, introverts, when thinking about starting a business and what are the ones that you think are most important to bust?

Speaker 2:

Oh my gosh, so many I know. Personally, I thought introverts are boring. I almost thought you know, I'm not as exciting as everyone else, I'm not as bold as everyone else, so therefore I must be boring. And if I'm boring then people will not be not as bold as everyone else. So therefore I must be boring, and if I'm boring then people will not be attracted to me and my business. So that is one myth I had to debunk for myself and for other people.

Speaker 2:

I think there's also a huge myth out there that introverts don't like people or being around people, they're not social or they don't have social skills. And this one bugs me so much. It's like, as I was typing, I'm like, okay, do not be angry as you're typing, but I just hate it when people are seeing that because, as an introvert, I love people, I love going to events most times, I love meeting new people, talking to people, and so for so long I didn't want to attach the word introvert to my name because I thought, well then, people are going to think I don't like people or I have no social skills. But I've since learned that, yes, you can be an introvert.

Speaker 1:

I want to give away just a little story because I think it's so relatable, and that was the grocery store aisle conversation, like who wants to be stopped by the neighbor you don't know that well, or the person that you've attended like an event for your child sporting things or what have you and be stuck in the grocery store aisle chatting them up when you really don't have much more to say than how's the weather and how's it going.

Speaker 1:

And then you're stuck and you're like I'm just going to read the back of this. You know I can't remember what you're reading, but pasta or what have you actually is in the sauce and I'm thinking oh my God, how many times have I sped up walking to avoid having a conversation because I didn't think I had any energy in me to have one. So I just avoided it. And I'm an extrovert, I'm usually the ones that can't, and I've done that too. Sometimes you just don't have it. And it has nothing to do with whether or not I like people. I love people, but I'm not always up for a conversation, exactly.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, sometimes you have to, you know, quickly move to the next aisle and pretend to be immersed and engrossed in this back panel of a label that you've already read. So, yeah, sometimes you just can't with people. I will say that. Yeah, I will say that, yeah, I mean, sometimes you just have to.

Speaker 1:

All right, let's go. Let's go. One more myth bust. So we know like my husband is an introvert and I always joke he was made for the pandemic times because nothing really changed for him, in the sense of he's happy if we have plans, but he's also happy if we don't have social plans. Like it doesn't really make or break his level of happiness, whereas for me there was some level of I haven't seen people other than you. I need to see other people. And he was like okay, if you want to. But I could tell I was like oh my God, there are some people who are just made, designed in a way that you really could go months on end without talking to other people. And he's like or I could like, I'm okay, like it doesn't change how I look at things. That to me, was a blessing. I was like he's ideal for this scenario. He, out of everyone, fared the best. I, on the other hand, was like we need to do another Zoom call and I'm tired of Zoom. I have to see people.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and he sounds very easy-brizzy and I would probably go crazy if the pandemic happened again and it was month on end. Yes, I would be desperately wanting to see people. But, to answer your question, another introvert myth is that introverts can't be great leaders. So I talk about that in the book too. But my caveat to that is sometimes introverts don't want to be leaders in the traditional sense, At least in my experience.

Speaker 2:

I didn't want to be a manager or director in the corporate field and I know a lot of people are striving to climb that ladder. But there were a couple of times when I was promoted from senior copywriter to marketing manager and I didn't enjoy it. All of a sudden I was taken away from the writing I love to do and suddenly told okay, now you're managing 10 people and yeah, can you picture me managing 10 people and having those awkward conversations like, okay, you've come in late to work again, we need to sit down and talk about this. Like I am the most non-confrontational person and so I didn't want to be a leader in the traditional sense, in the corporate sense, but in the online space I think introverts make great leaders, and not to say they don't. In corporate space. There are many great introverted leaders there, but me personally, I would prefer to be a thought leader. So I'm not leading people, I'm not doing performance reviews, all that stuff I had no interest in doing. But I can be a thought leader in sharing my expertise and experience.

Speaker 1:

Well, and I think there's a new appreciation that didn't exist even probably a decade ago, about the fact that quiet leadership actively listens.

Speaker 1:

There's something to be said.

Speaker 1:

Like you know, we grew up in the same era and I think there's this sense of success and leadership looked a certain way. It had a strong opinion, it was articulate, it was louder. Nobody spoke when the leader was speaking, like we knew who was in charge, and it was that presence that went with the leadership role of they're a tough cookie or you don't want to get on their bad side. They're willing to do the quote unquote hard things which might require letting someone go or giving them difficult information, and they were comfortable with it. And I think over time we've come to realize sometimes you end up just then selecting more people like that to leadership because you're looking for a certain type, versus actually looking for people who have both the competencies in the work so that they can train other people and the ability to listen, which I've now realized and, quite frankly, got there in a somewhat circuitous route myself. Listening was so important to becoming a good leader and yet most leaders spend most of their time talking to people, not listening. Right, yes, yes for sure?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I would say the introverts make great listeners. Not that extroverts don't, but I think because introverts aren't, their priority isn't being the center of attention usually. So they're okay to sit back and listen and they enjoy sitting back and listening. And then, of course, the more you listen, the more empathetic you are, the better leader you can be. You can provide better solutions for the problem that your employees or clients or customers are dealing with.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Now we have very similar backgrounds also in the sense that we both came from the creative agency world. So I came from more traditional advertising and public relations. You were in a creative agency. I just think that takes a certain type of personality to survive that environment over the years, because when you're in professional services of any kind, but particularly in larger organizations, you can get drowned out without even realizing it if you don't have a certain type of personality and it's filled with personalities right Bigger than life personalities and creative agencies. So it's an interesting place to have spent time in your career. When did you know that it was time for you to try something different?

Speaker 2:

What was the turning point for you to say I want to go and become an entrepreneur. Yeah, it was a slow burn for me. It was certainly not waking up, know, waking up one morning and seeing the heavens part and, like Nicole, this is what you should do. Years ago, probably about 10 years prior to leaving corporate or creative agency life, I had started side hustling, a freelance writing business. So I was doing that on the side as well as working nine to five for my senior copywriter role and over the years I just kind of did it for extra trip money and, you know, serving audiences or serving companies that didn't have an in-house copywriter, like I was for my nine to five. So I was just doing this on the side and never really had the intention of taking it full time. I don't even think I thought of that as an option for me, because I grew up probably saying, like you, that you go to school you get a nine to five job. So I had this nine to five career, I had this side hustle and then life just got really busy. It got super busy in the sense that you know, I was working side hustling, my son was in baseball and hockey at the same time and rep. So it was like traveling out of town on weeknights and weekends. I was doing freelance assignments on nights and weekends. What else? Like? There was just a lot of work and life stuff happening.

Speaker 2:

And it came to a point where I was like, okay, this is too busy. I've got my full-time career. Oh, I was also commuting at least an hour each way to work, so it's like it's like all moments of the day and night were taken and I was just. I felt like I was working all the time when I wasn't at the hockey arena or baseball diamonds. So I just thought, okay, one of these things has to give. I either quit my full-time job or I stopped my freelance writing business. And it's like at the time I wasn't quite ready to go all in on one or the other. So I approached my boss and I said, hey, can I go from five days a week to three days a week? And they said yes, because, for whatever reason, they said yes and that gave me the chance to kind of baby step into entrepreneurship. So I did that for maybe a year.

Speaker 2:

But then my freelance business, my side hustle, just kept getting busier and busier and then I thought you know what it's time I've done this side hustling for too long, for long enough. So I had those conversations with my husband and he's you know the very logical one like, well, but we've always had two full-time incomes and is the time right, are you sure? I'm like, yes, I'm sure. So finally, right before the pandemic or right after it, I can't remember. Yeah, I left corporate creative agency full-time life and went all in with my business. So again, it wasn't like one moment in time. It's just kind of a slow build of you're creating this busy life and the whole point of having your own business is to have more freedom and flexibility. Busy life and the whole point of having your own business is to have more freedom and flexibility so something needs to change.

Speaker 1:

So how long has it been now? Are we in year four or five?

Speaker 2:

uh, I think it. Well, end of 2020. So yeah, pandemic was already in effect. So many people quit their corporate jobs because of the pandemic. It just happened to be that way for me, our, my company that I was working for, we were all working from home, and then maybe that was part of it in the sense where I thought I won't go crazy if I work from home all the time. So, yeah, it just helped me make the decision.

Speaker 1:

I love it. All right, let's talk about copywriting, because I think there are a lot of misconceptions when entrepreneurs get out into the space of like when they need to have a copywriter or when they might want to consider copy. And let's talk a little bit about when is the best time to engage a copywriter. Why would someone want to do that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, great question. I would say, before investing in a copywriter, it's really important to know who your audience is, know your audience and what you want to sell. And it sounds so simplistic, but if you're still deciding those things, then you might invest in a copywriter and then a month or two later think, oh, but actually I want to serve this audience or have these offers audience or, you know, have these offers, and it's not to say, the copywriter can't go and change the copy for you. You can evolve, but it's just might be a waste of money in the beginning to invest so much in a copywriter. So I would say, yeah, make sure you are clear on who you are serving and what you're offering, and then, of course, your business will evolve. And, yes, you'll need to change your messaging at some points, but as long as you have that foundation there, the timing is right.

Speaker 1:

And let me tell you, the really great thing about Nicole's book is she actually walks you through a lot of the branding 101 questions that someone needs to ask themselves when they're starting an online business. They're getting into the entrepreneurial space. There are things that you will be thinking about or need to think about in order to make sure that you have a product or service that's actually targeted and in service of a specific audience, and so there are great questions in here. The interesting thing is otherwise, people like Nicole have to boil the ocean for you, and it's funny because I will say from my own experience, for you. And it's funny because I will say from my own experience.

Speaker 1:

Some of us start off with like I want to serve everyone, and Nicole had to go down that route with me in the beginning, where I was like everybody, there's nobody I don't want to serve, and she's like, okay, all right, well, we'll let you swallow that for a little while and see how that goes, and then let's talk some more. And then, over time, you start to realize like wait, not only are you not doing yourself any favors, it's making it really hard for people to find you, because there's nothing distinguishing or that sets you apart, because if you're all things to all people, you're actually no one, nothing to anyone, as they say. And it's funny because we were both happenstance, then in a kind of a brand building mastermind together where we were talking about audiences and niches, and from two people who come from backgrounds that think about marketing and that think about audience, and forced to do that, we still found the benefit of being in a group of women that were talking about what does it mean to really be in service? What does your audience look like? Well, what is the avatar? What are their challenges? What are their problems? What are you solving for?

Speaker 1:

Here we were, for me, 25 years later, still having these conversations I was having with clients, now having them with myself for my own business. So I found it so beneficial to be in that circle and be in Malika's group with you and hearing how everyone was evolving their business. And even then I've thought, well, nicole's business is clear, it's copywriting. And then she's like, hold my beer. Copywriting for certain people, not just copywriting. Copywriting for other folks in the online space, specifically women who are coaches and specifically doing mindset work or health coaching, and I was like, damn, she's really clear. And then it was in sales copy on top of it was like blown away. At that point I was like, well, I'm glad that my website's done. We got her for that.

Speaker 2:

Oh, geez, yeah. And just when you think you're done niching, if you go into Malika's world, she will have you niche some more. Yeah, she had me niche too. Well, she didn't have me. She said what do you enjoy writing the most? And I'm like I love it all. I love writing it all. But somehow we landed on sales page copy, which is funny because had you asked me before are you good at sales or have you ever taken a sales course Like sales? I don't associate myself with sales, but I love writing sales copy because I love doing it in a way that's fun and friendly and feel good. So yes, we need.

Speaker 1:

For me, it's captivating. Here's the thing Nicole may be a quiet presence, but her copy just is so inspiring, it captures your attention. Her copy does all the work for her. That's the great thing, like if you have a good copywriter, you have somebody who really understands who you're trying to reach and can get into their mindset and understand what it is they need to hear. She can help bring your service, your business, to life in a way that no other way, like we tend to overthink and, I think, spin our wheels a bit, not wanting to leave anybody out.

Speaker 1:

Then there's just a lack of clarity, like what do you really do and what do you really provide? And that's Nicole's specialty is really getting you to get in there, roll up your sleeves and be clear about what you're solving for. And it's funny because, like you said, it's not that folks outside of that avatar, outside of those problems you're solving for, won't find you. They will. There are adjacent industries or adjacent things and people will just, I think, energetically find you and want to work with you. That's what I think happens. And now I'm convinced there are people like Nicole that do so well in the online space, not because they're loud, not because they're out posting every day, but because they're now in a repeat referral business. Because once you get an opportunity to work with her and see what she can do literally interviewing you, getting you to write about yourself and then asking really good questions and then she goes off and does her magic and then you come back and work together on refining it, but seeing yourself in a new way, in a new way Some of the stuff I was like I don't know if that's me, nicole, I have to think about it, I have to think on it.

Speaker 1:

And it was so funny. I'd find myself going yeah, she does know me better than I thought she did. She does get it way more than I thought. How did she get that? From just the questions that she asked me, there was such a nuance and an appreciation for both my experience and my knowledge and what I was bringing to the table that it just made me feel, quite frankly, there's no other word for it other than safe, because when you're putting yourself out there in the online world and you are selling a product or service, you are taking on a level of exposure right. Are people going to like it? Are people going to want this? Are people going to need this, and so you need to have somebody work with you and guide you in a way that you start to reflect back the worth and the value you know is there. But there's this trepidation when you're right about to push, go and have everyone see it, and Nicole does such a beautiful job at that. That's probably the best word I felt very seen heard.

Speaker 2:

That's probably the best word. I felt very seen, heard and safe when I was working with you on my copy. Wow, well, thank you. Can I just bottle all that up? I'm so glad you felt that way and I think you know to your point earlier. I think sometimes we're just so close to our businesses that it does help to have an outsider come in, whether it's a copywriter, designer or coach. We're just too close to things sometimes, so that outside perspective is really valuable.

Speaker 1:

What do you think, from a brand building perspective, are a couple of things people may either overlook when starting out in the entrepreneurial space or not put enough credence in that you want them to be reminded of.

Speaker 2:

Well, I would say some of those branding elements, like really thinking about what are your values, what is your vision, what is your mission, doing some of that foundational work, some of that strategy work, so you can build a rock solid brand. And then, once you have that in place, it'll be so much easier to do your messaging and your copy, because you're not just winging it, you have that strong foundation, you know what you stand for, you know what your brand personality is, the tone of voice, the look and feel, and then everything goes off from there. And then, if you have other people on your team, like a VA or a designer, all roads would lead back to that brand strategy, so everybody's on the same page. And then, in turn, all of your marketing touch points you know social media, email, sales pages everything is aligned and cohesive. So, yeah, definitely starting off with that brand strategy work and then again, just really noting knowing who your audience is, knowing them well, so that your copy isn't just watered down, so that it's really specific.

Speaker 2:

So for my book, for example, yes, I wrote it with introverts in mind, female introverts, so the language is tailored just to them, although, like you said, yes, people on the peripheral, will still enjoy reading it. I just had that one person or that one type of person in mind, so that I could use a really specific example that would make them say, yes, this is so me. I feel so, seen and heard.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and so definitely if you're an introvert, you need this book. But as an extrovert or as an extroverted introvert, I will say everybody could really benefit from reading the book. It's just a really good, accessible business book. It's a really good, accessible guide to entrepreneurship and myth busting around that, as well as just great lessons on brand building. So I know it's for introverted girls, but again, I'm giving it to all my gals who are very extroverted as well. I just think everyone's going to love it Her tone, her style.

Speaker 1:

And it's funny because I remember when you first did my copy, nicole, I was like I don't know if this is me yet. I couldn't quite fit myself into it. I was a little more formal still. I wasn't detoxed yet fully off Michelle's corporate speak and I was like, oh, this just feels so casual and it's so funny. I've come so full circle.

Speaker 1:

And it was such a wonderful place to start for me because when I realized, no wait, it has to be conversational.

Speaker 1:

People are not looking for you to jump off from an authoritative space, they're relating to you from a conversational spot. And that's what this book is like and that's what was so enjoyable for me was it just was easy to pick up, and I've picked it up several times and I've read a couple pages at a time and I pick it back up. You don't have to think too hard, it's so easy to get through. So thank you for that and thank you for the reminder that it doesn't have to be such a high-browed experience of writing to be good writing and to reach people. In fact, the more conversational and relatable, I think, the more breakthrough you have with the person, it sticks with them. I remember the stories better. I think of the lessons that you share and hear and they come to mind right away and I think that's what a lot of people will appreciate, and I find that some of the best books out there, if you think about it, are the easiest reads, right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, for sure, because you can actually get through them too, and recall.

Speaker 1:

And yet for so many years just like the leadership myth, you know we always thought, oh, it's academic and it has to be highbrow and all this and in the end those are the harder ones to get through and nobody finishes them. Everyone buys those books and they sit on your desk like gentlemen in Moscow. I could not get through that book to save my life Beautifully written but hard and dense and you know I ended up just cheating and watching the limited series on Netflix and enjoyed every minute of it, but have the book sitting there years later where I'm like I couldn't get past chapter three, like it was just too dense. Beautiful story but hard to read.

Speaker 1:

You talk a little bit very honestly about sometimes where your online business experience you were not necessarily loving it. You love what you do. You love writing, love copywriting, but there's the realities that this entrepreneurial experience can be draining at times for everybody, and they're also just life happens and you can easily fall out of love with what you're doing. Would you mind sharing there's one story in particular. I know two of your stories that just hit me right in the heart, one I remember vividly when I went down. Would you mind sharing some of those moments with us over the last five years where, despite loving what you do, you had a realistic moment of like I'm not loving this business right now.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I will say like 99% of the book is light and fun and conversational and all those things. And then there's one chapter I called it the chapter that doesn't belong. It's a chapter on grief and balancing grief and business, and the whole premise here is that, yeah, life happens, you can have all these goals and all these plans, but then, surprise, something happens and you just have to shut down your business.

Speaker 2:

And so that happened to me, started in 2022. And so, in a matter of a year and a half, I lost three people really close to me. And I mean again, I feel lucky to say this I had never experienced grief before, like I had old relatives, distant relatives that had passed away, but I had never been hit so hard with grief, and the first time was in 2022, my ex-husband so my son is, he's now 18. But this was when he was 15. And my ex-husband and I had separated, when he was just one. And so, of course, right after the divorce, there were some not so nice feelings. There were some, you know. And so, of course, right after the divorce, there were some not so nice feelings. There were some, you know frustration and anger and hurt, but then, quickly after we got over that and we were really great friends and people would say, oh my gosh for exes. You two are just so close because we would always joke and text and every time our son Nolan had a sporting event or school event or anything, it's like our entourage was there. We were always there for him and in 2022, it was Mother's Day.

Speaker 2:

Corey that's my ex-husband took him my son golfing early in the morning and then after that was going to drop Nolan off so that we could have Mother's Day together. But then I got the call from my son that Corey had gone to the hospital. He had fallen down on the golf course and Nolan didn't know what was happening. So long story short, he had a major brain bleed and he, you know. After that there were no more conversations. He was in a coma. He passed away two weeks later. It was just so shocking Everything about it Heart-wrenching.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yes, and it was just. I've been talking in the book how it was painful on two accounts, because mostly for my son. Here's this sweet boy who lost his dad that he adored in the blink of an eye, so like his innocence was gone. He probably thought I'll have my parents forever, like he just didn't imagine anything like this happening. And then at the same time, I was grieving this person that I was so close with.

Speaker 1:

We had such a past together and yeah it was just a really hard time and you remained friends and co-parents. That's such a beautiful and unique position to be in and to be able to say we were friends. I lost a dear, dear friend.

Speaker 2:

Yes, that's real. And so many times writing this book, like he was such a big fan of me and my writing and was always saying you should do this or you should do this, and it was so many times writing the book I thought I wish Corey was here, because he would have said it's about time, like, come on, why is this not happening? Like he just would have said it's about time, like, come on, why is this not happening? Like he just would have been so proud. So, yeah, I mean when that happened, shut the business down. Basically I couldn't write. I couldn't write sales copy.

Speaker 2:

While this was happening, while I was supporting my son and just all the things. And then the next incident happened my grandma passed away really suddenly, and hers was, I don't want to say, easier to digest, but she was older. It was still very sudden, but she was older. And then, at the end of 2023, my dad passed away very suddenly after Christmas holiday get together, just you know, pulled up into the driveway, didn't even have the chance to put the car in park, and then he had a cardiac arrest.

Speaker 1:

I remember that.

Speaker 2:

Three separate occasions. I mean by the third one, again still just as hard as the first, but by that point, okay, I know what this is. This is the grief, and it's going to come in weird and unexpected ways and when it's happening, you need to put your business on hold. And of course, I had clients that were totally understanding. Yes. So again, this chapter was just about the reality that life and business are intertwined. So make sure you're working with clients who understand that family comes first, so they're not going to be like hey, where's my sales page copy Right after somebody lost after that happens. Make sure you have clients who understand that family comes first. Try to have things in place in your business where you can make some passive income when you need to shut down your business for a bit, so you don't have to stress about money. So, yeah, there are a few different takeaways from it, but that was the general theme.

Speaker 1:

I think also, it's just a reminder of like you went through these things in fairly quick succession and you needed to take the time you needed to take to grieve and to be there for your son, with your ex, but also be there for your family with your grandmother and your father, and it did not stop you from getting back in the game when you were ready and it didn't stop you from having a thriving business.

Speaker 1:

Your father passed away. I remember that the holiday season it was like end of 2023. Here we are at the beginning of 2025 and you have a book out that you wrote starting in the middle of 2024, if I recall correctly, and it can happen. You can go through these hard things, they can rattle you, but they don't have to unravel you, and that's the thing that I really saw as I was reading about it in this book, you allowed yourself the space and the time to do what you needed to do to be a mom first, to be a daughter, to be a granddaughter, and then got back to it when you were ready, and it was all your waiting and your thriving.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, I think honestly, maybe part of it was that the realization, something we all know, but it takes sometimes events like this to really hit home that life is short. So I'm sure on some level I thought life is short. Just write the book, do the thing you want to do, don't wait. And so I mean, maybe my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner so that those three people could read the book, but yeah, they're in my acknowledgements.

Speaker 1:

I doubt for a minute they are all looking down on you and smiling and cheering you on. All right. Before we wrap, nicole, a couple of questions, a couple last questions. One what do you want somebody who is maybe early stage entrepreneur or contemplating becoming an entrepreneur? What do you want them to know about this journey? And then I want you to talk about where people can find you. So let's start about folks that are sitting on the fence or just coming out of the gates. What do you want them to know?

Speaker 2:

I want them to know that when they jump into the online space, they will be bombarded with things to do, ideas, shiny object syndrome. They will have so many thoughts running through their head like I could do this or this or this or this. But they need to just kind of tune out the noise and just pick one or two things at a time, focus on that kind of stay in their lane and also know that they don't have to do things just like everybody else. They don't have to do marketing activities that suck their soul or they don't enjoy. They can choose marketing activities that feel good for them and their energy.

Speaker 1:

Great advice and you will have so many ideas that will come flooding at you if you spend one hour on Instagram.

Speaker 2:

Yes, stop the doom scrolling.

Speaker 1:

Exactly, limit your time on social media and get your stuff done and then go there for ideas. But if you start your day there, you will never get going on all the list of things you have to do. This is true. This is so true. All right, my friend, where can people find you?

Speaker 2:

They can find me on my website, nicolekeppigcom, so it's my first and last name. I also hang out on Instagram at NK Copywriting, and I have just recently gone back to LinkedIn, so yeah that's been interesting. I've made some great connections already. So yeah, I'm enjoying it there too.

Speaker 1:

Fabulous, all right. Well, we're going to make sure that we have Nicole's website or her Instagram handle and definitely a link to her book on Amazon in the show notes, so I hope that you will all go check it out Again. Her name is Nicole Kepik and the book is called Don't Ask Me To Be Loud the Introverted Girl's Guide to Online Business. Nicole, congratulations again. It's been such a pleasure having you on the show and I hope that you will come back. Oh, I would love that. Thank you To come back for your next book. Absolutely, sign me up. All right, my friend, until next time. Everyone, go and live your extraordinary life. Everyone go and live your extraordinary life. Thank you for listening to today's episode. If you enjoyed this podcast episode, please take a moment to rate and review. If you have recommendations for future topics, please reach out to me at michelleriosofficialcom. Lastly, please consider supporting this podcast by sharing it. Together, we can reach, inspire and positively impact more people. Thank you.

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Michelle Rios

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