Entrepreneur Daniel Daoura | Marketing an Innovative New Tech Product

Daniel Daoura, founder and CTO of Pebblebee, is a serial entrepreneur and visionary leader in the trackables industry. Daniel began his career at Boeing, where he spent over 10 years in lead engineering roles developing global software and hardware systems for military asset-tracking communication systems. Leveraging this experience, Daniel ventured into the finder space, creating Pebblebee to help people track what matters most to them. To date, Daniel has more than 30 patents in the trackable and finder market. He holds a B.S. in Computer Engineering and an M.S. in Electrical Engineering from the University of Washington, as well as an MBA in Finance from Seattle University.

Transcript

Jeanne Gray: When an entrepreneur pursues their vision of a new and innovative product, outsiders do not readily appreciate the challenges they face when taking on both the marketing and the supply sides of a product launch. Our guest today on Experienced Voices is entrepreneur Daniel Doura, founder of Pebble Bay.

Daniel introduced a new and innovative tech product into the trackables industry. That presented some unique marketing challenges. He shares how he and his team persevered to establish their products and the latest market opportunity that is emerging as a result of a new use for the technology that will bring their success to new Heights.

Welcome to Experience Voices, Daniel.

Thanks for being a guest. 

Daniel Daoura: Hey, how are you doing, Jeanne? Thank you so much for having me on the show. 

Jeanne Gray: Well, I'm excited to hear about your product line because it solves a problem in people's everyday lives. So, so tell, tell us what you've built. 

Daniel Daoura: We've built Pebblebee and that is a company that helps people track what matters most to them.

Using technologies such as the clip, the card, the tag, you can attach the clip to your keys or the card in your wallet. Or the tag on your remote control and track and find your most what, what matters most to you using the Apple Find My Network or the Google Find My Device network. 

Jeanne Gray: So how was that activated?

Because you're saying if I lose my keys, that The trackable helps me find them, but what does the user do once they have entered that panic mode of not being able to find their car keys? 

Daniel Daoura: Well, what you do is you use your, what you're most comfortable with, and every day people use their phones. It's either iOS or Android.

And when you leave something behind, for example, using the Apple Find My Network, when you leave something behind, if you have it enabled, you'll get a notification on your phone like you left your wallet behind. You leave the house, you're going to a business meeting or whatever it is. And then while you just left the house, you get a notification saying you left your wallet behind.

So you go back home and you, you know, retrieve your wallet. So most of the times it's about preventing you from losing your items. And in certain situations, it's about the finding where you go in your app and you turn on, which is a native app, it's built into the operating system. You turn on the find my app.

In that ecosystem. And you hit the find button, which essentially will play a sound on your device. And you'll be able to retrieve your item, most prized item. And you, you move, you know, you go along with your day. So that's, that's really what it's about. It's really about staying connected to the most important items in your life.

And trying to stay connected. And if you do lose, then you can find and retrieve. 

Jeanne Gray: Explain a little bit about the challenge of introducing this product, because we're going to talk a bit about, you know, the challenges of, of marketing a new product. But I understand because of the tech, there's like another layer to making the product successful.

It's not just about, you know, the great idea you had, but there were other things that you had to put in place to really affect its, its deployment. 

Daniel Daoura: Definitely many layers to it. It's not just the best technology in its class. There are many, many other layers like marketing and really getting adoption within the market in that category and the team and the challenges.

There are many layers, but obviously initially marketing our technology, it was daunting. Our products were part of a very new category. There was no such thing as a BLE or crowd GPS item-finding category, which had no market precedent. Until some competitors, major competitors entered the category.

And of course, later Apple with the AirTag introduced similar technologies like the Apple AirTag helping build that category awareness, which really helped catapult that category. It sort of went from early adopters to innovators, right. And, and visionaries sort of phase. Yeah. And so I guess going back, you know, when Pebbleby first set out to introduce this new category again didn't exist, there was no precedent.

And then there was these competitors and, and really, and I say these, it's mainly one competitor that was VC funded, you know, quite heavily, and it helped bring more awareness to this category. Pebble P as opposed to being really well funded from a VC or anything like that. We were funded by friends and family.

We were funded by the founders themselves, myself and Nick, and we'd always focused on the technology and the consumer value first. That was the most important thing. What can we do with the amount of funding that we have to bring the best value to our consumers? As opposed to, you know, marketing and branding.

And then again, when Apple came out with the AirTag many years later, people quickly became to be much more aware of item finding and the category itself. But prior to that, it was inefficient to really market our product to consumers because people didn't know about this category and the technology itself, unless you were a first mover, right?

And, and this technology didn't really exist in people's eyes until it became part of the operating system itself. It became native, which is the Apple find my ecosystem. And then more than half of the U S population had access to it natively within their phones without having to download an app. So it became much more natural, right?

And people understood that category and this really turned things around and it brought more awareness to the category. And then of course, then with Google's find my device launch, which happened just recently, and we're, we just announced it to become available at the end of May, this. This year, obviously, so few weeks from now it's proven to be even a greater success with a much larger network of Android phones and a huge following of consumers that have been longing for an air tag for Android for, for a lack of a better term.

And now we have really started to break into this category. And bring the awareness globally, not just within the US and North America, but really globally when it comes to item finding by attaching, you know, our product to consumer items. And if you look at the distribution of Android and iOS, for example, in Mexico, it's about 73 percent Android users.

As opposed to in the U S it's about 45 percent in Canada. It's even less, it's maybe 37% Android users. But if you look at Europe, it's even, you know, higher percentage of Android users and look at Asia, same thing. So we're definitely breaking into this category a lot faster now, and we're getting a lot more adoption.

But. As we learn a little bit more from this category and people's habits we're, we're also becoming more of a crusader through another vertical yet in this category today, which is embedded if people want to buy items, whether it's skis, golf clubs bags, laptops, bikes. Whatever it is I wear and they want to have this item finding technology built into it, regardless of platform you're using.

You know, obviously if you're using iOS or Android, it works natively out of the box. Imagine you buying a pair of sunglasses and they pair naturally with your native operating system, iOS or Android, and then you can track them and find them, you know, and stay close to the, what matters most to you. So that's really what Pebblebeat is.

Doing today we're really pioneering in the space of embedded item finding. Of course, we've already pioneered the item tracking with devices that you attach to your items, but now we're going more into the embedded world and achieving such a success requires very strategic partnerships, such as at the chip level.

You know, for chip level manufacturers, such as we're using Nordic semiconductors and all the way to the network providers, such as Apple and Google and and, and in between being the brand manufacturers themselves. So that is, that is what we are today. And we're trying to be sort of the glue that binds the item finding as a technology between all these strategic players and at a global level, 

Jeanne Gray: what you described sounds like a fairly complex challenge that you, you undertook when you had your first.

idea of the, of this product line, the trackables, I guess was now years ago. When you assessed how to go forward at the very beginning, Did you, did your idea of cart far in advance of the technology? Were you running ahead of the tech at that point and needed the tech to catch up to your vision?

Daniel Daoura: Yeah, my history started off with developing. And managing a team of developers that worked on military aircraft communication systems for tracking assets, tracking military assets. And so that technology had existed for a long time, but we focused on an aerospace industry where we were working on military aircraft communication systems.

And so that evolved obviously to consumer grade. And this was back in 2011, where Nick and I had got together. We were. Late to work because I couldn't find my keys. We were playing hide and seek with my keys with my daughter the night before. And he said, looked at me and he said, well, I'm having the same problem with my remote control because my kid throws it in the garbage every once in a while.

Because, because, because he tells his kid that TVs are bad for you. So so we, we, you know, we got our minds together and. And, and really developed what was already there for military systems to consumer and it started off with Bluetooth and also really 2011, 2012 is where BLE started Bluetooth low energy started and it became prevalent on phones platforms, right?

Which people use every day. And so it really became a natural point of inflection where we started developing this technology. I was doing it in my working on it in my basement and he was working on it in his garage. Literally. We had this lab, you know, a remote lab that we, we kept on working on for a couple of years.

And we had a product in 2013, 2012, when we first started and then 2013, we were handing them out to friends and family. And that's when. We realized this is, this is a business, you know, this, this could definitely be a huge potential. People love the fact that they can keep track of their belongings.

And it was a value add. It was a very big thing for us that we wanted to really make a difference by adding value in this world. And I feel this is something that everyone really should. strive to do is, is really add value in this economy. And this is one thing that we felt like we had a purpose to do.

And initially, you know, the, the our initial plans had to evolve rapidly because we, we quickly learned that we needed a lot of money to, to break through a category that, that didn't exist. But then we, we decided let's just focus on what we know best, which is technology. Let's just continue to innovate and focus and do the best we can to continue to stay on the course.

And you know, 10, 11 years later, look where we are today. So I feel like we've definitely learned a lot from early market introductions we've, we've also realized the importance of adapting our strategy to focus more on embedded technology. This is where we are today and cross platform functionality to meet expectations.

At what point did you.

Jeanne Gray: you're saying you're working in your basement and, but your, your career has been most of the time as an engineer. So you're definitely working off your, and the, and your exposure to the tracking in the military. So at what point did you step back? And because you mentioned it in your answer about the money part of the equation.

So you're, you're an engineer, but now you have to pivot to being marketing savvy. Did, did you sit down and come up with a number in your head as part of, you know, everyone says he got the business plan and he got the marketing plan. Did you sit down and say, I need X amount of money to get me enough runway to a certain point.

And when you saw that number, did you have any walk workarounds that let you keep going? But knowing, you know, you had to get past that hurdle at some point.

Daniel Daoura: Yes. And sometimes I look back and I'm going to answer your question, but I'm, I'm going to jump ahead a little bit. Sometimes I look back and I say to myself, had I known everything that I've gone through today, would I have jumped? And like I have and started a business like Pebbleby and maybe the answer would be no, because I was naive, right?

And, and, and I was very. optimistic, and I still am, but knowing the amount of hard work you have to put into it is scary. It is scary, and that's why sometimes it's very good to sort of modularize some of those items and tickets that are in your mind. And so when you, when you ask the question, did, did I know how much I needed in order to really move on to the next phase of the business, you know, the next chapter and how much did I need to raise to get there to that point where I wanted to go?

Yes, I did. When I thought thoroughly through the steps for years and years, it just became very overwhelming. And so really the idea that came about is that I just need to Take one step at a time. And that's, that's all I cared about is the next step. I didn't really want to, I had a vision, but it didn't really want to focus a hundred percent on that vision.

I wanted to focus on the next step. And in order to get there, I needed to raise a certain amount of money. And it was really about just to get to that level of production and development that we needed because we were technology focused. As opposed to, we wanted to get market adoption and so many numbers of, customers, because that was way too expensive and we just didn't have the resources that we needed to get there.

And I didn't have. An advisor early on advisor. We really, my background is engineering, electrical engineering and computer science engineering. So I was a software developer as well as a hardware engineer. And, and I did get an MBA just to learn about the tools. I think I should do, I should go and get my MBA again, because now I think I can apply all the learnings, but, really?

It was, that was it. I didn't have any advisor or there weren't as many tools as there are today. So we, we had to work with what we had at the time and really it was about relationship building. So I saw an article. And it was about a pet tag company and I reached out to them, you know, and it was a local company reached out and tried to work with them to scale our business with their success.

And that led to an investor that had invested in them. That investor really saw something with Pebble Beach and, and the team of two at the time and invested and believed in us. And they're still our largest, one of our largest investors today. And that really helped us move to the next phase. Which was a few years back where we raised another 3 million that helped us get to where we are today.

So that is definitely the journey. And yes, you got to take it step by step. It's very overwhelming. If you think of all the steps to certain people, because certain people really can see all of these buckets ahead and it becomes very overwhelming and daunting, and so you have to really. scale back and, and train your mind to really focus on the next step.

And what do you need to do to accomplish that next step and just laser focus on that? Otherwise it becomes very overwhelming. 

Jeanne Gray: What I'm hearing is a lot of adaptability. That's how, that's how you, once you compartmentalized The, the key steps right in front of you. It sounded like your mind was continuously working on getting through each step and what you could change in your thinking to open up another step forward.

Daniel Daoura: That is correct. And perseverance because you will fail all the time. You will fail all the time and you just got to take those failures as learnings and try not to fail again in the same manner. But also you have to realize that when you. Are scarred from, from a failure or something that happened in, in that journey, you have to also understand that, that there were certain circumstances at the time, different people, different time.

So you don't want to be scared to jump again because maybe you failed previously because of the ingredients that you had at the time. And now you have different ingredients. So it doesn't mean you have to do the same thing over and over. That's insanity. But it's a, it's an art. It really is an art because.

You want to learn from your experiences and not fail again, but you don't want to be so scared to jump again, right? Because that's what really separates you from, many is that entrepreneurship is about taking risks and you want to continue to take risks, calculated risks, but also sometimes you gotta jump ahead take some risk because that's, that's really the, the way you're going to win sometimes because most people don't take those risks, right?

But with the experience and knowledge that you've attained over the years you become a lot better at that, taking those risks. 

Jeanne Gray: I think a lot of people who have not been entrepreneurs, actually don't understand that part of risk is that. You've made this commitment to a vision that you cannot easily step away from.

So, you know, you, you have a lot of hurdles and challenges you have. I think what the keyword may be setbacks and you, you won't let those setbacks, you know, end the vision. And that's a really big part of the, I think of the risk taking because. You're still moving forward even though you're having setbacks, and that's, that's a lot to absorb.

When you found that local partner, was that key in smoothing over, getting prototypes made and doing any type of early market testing?

Daniel Daoura: That's another story Jeanne, and that is my. Previous business or, maybe venture was, was making a wallet. I really wanted to learn about the process of creating as opposed to consuming and because you go to a store. I, at least this is my experience. When I used to go to stores and retailers, et cetera, I never really thought about when I picked up a product, how was it made, I would just buy it and consume it.

And use it. And one day I was in a store and I thought, you know, how was this made? Like, I would really like to learn about all the steps that are involved, not just the product manufacturing, but the marketing and the communication with partners and manufacturers and the branding. And the team building and, and et cetera.

So I started with a wallet company and it was called Easy Go Wallet. It's still live actually. We're, we're still getting quite a bit of orders just from word of mouth. And that really introduced me to the production life type of world which was in China. I, I tried here. In fact, the, these Eagle Wallet is manufactured here in the us.

But the leather product, which was the second part of the product that I had developed at Easy Wallet I couldn't manufacture here in the U S. The polyethylene product is made here in the U. S., still is today, but the leather one, I couldn't manufacture. It was very difficult to find partners at the time.

Now, there are many more available here in the U. S., but at the time, it was 15 years ago. so I went to China, traveled there and learned that production world in Shenzhen and Dongguan area and Hong Kong, and met with several factories and started producing products. Learned about certain different parts of the production life cycle and made connections there.

And those connections are still there today. That's what helped us really catapult this. pebble Bee product back in 2012 into real production is the connections that I had previously made and maintained throughout that process. And today we have a factory that can produce 20,000 units a day.

That's how big that factory is. And of course, we can scale that to a lot more as well. So yeah, that's, that's how I became to learn about the production. 

Jeanne Gray: So actually, now that you've told me about the wallet, it kind of gives me a real sense of the drive that you have. There's some type of creative drive for you to have started with the wallet and then move over to the trackables.

Did you, is that just simply part of your engineering background or. It's, do you see it as being a passion for innovating? I 

Daniel Daoura: think it's a passion for innovating. It's a, it's a passion for learning and being inquisitive. And I also have ADD, so I don't take medications for it. So that's one way of soothing my mind is to really take that challenge, right, and, and drive that to a product.

Right. And what I've come to learn is that the hardest part. There are so many hard parts, right? They're all very difficult technology, the development, the team building, the branding, the manufacturing, the quality, and the maintaining of that position. You know, throughout, there are so many difficult parts of that.

But I'm still learning quite a bit. I I'm learning a lot. Marketing and branding is something I continue to learn and I continue to struggle with personally. Which is, you know, why you have a team that is very effective at that. But I think that's, that's one thing that I really learned about.

Creating a new category and wallets is not a new category, right? But Pebbleby was a new category. And I think you mentioned that Jeanne to me yesterday, which was much like Jeff Moore's concept and crossing the chasm. We experienced the gap between early adopters and, and early majority. And, and I didn't know about that.

Before, you know, our approach included rigorous prototyping and testing and, and ensuring that we could develop a product that really adds so much value in this marketplace. We didn't really think about the, I didn't think about so much, the, how difficult it was to bring a product to market in a new category.

, So you see the, the, the key to this framework. Crossing the chasm is really the key to this framework is called the technology adoption life cycle, which was a term coined by Everett Rogers. It was in the sixties, 1960s, maybe fifties which is basically called the diffusion of innovation. And it's when you introduce innovation into the market.

It will self segregate into five buckets, five buckets in terms of when people will adopt this technology. You first, you have your early adopters, your, your technologists, then you have your visionaries. Yeah. Think of Steve jobs, for example. Then you have your pragmatists. That is where things grow rapidly.

You're pragmatists, and I think we're, we're in the very early phase of that right now today for Pebble Beach. And then you have your conservatives, you know, people that don't like disruptive tech, that, that they're, they're, Yeah, we don't, I don't really need this. I, I can, I can live without this. I don't really need this, and I don't need it.

And they keep saying that to themselves. Eventually they, they give up and they realize it's likely a good idea. And then you have your skeptics, and those are like the last folks that, that will adopt this technology. And what we've just gone through was the, the chasm phase. That's a, that's the phase where it, it sometimes takes a while, right, to, to really break through the chasm phase.

And it's the delay factor between the early market and the pragmatists. And now we have to deliver and maintain this position and retain the market share. And that's that, that you can only do that with best quality product, best value to customers. And one thing that, that allows companies and innovators and entrepreneurs to really break into a break past the chasm period is to really partner with, with someone.

A brand that really shows that they trust in you. And that's, for us, that was Google, really. We're the only made for Google product today. We're going to be launching in the end of May, early June. And they've trusted us with this technology. And that's because we've been in this market for over a decade now.

And, it's really showing how we are in the pragmatist Phase right now, because I just got a note from a friend of mine that stated the top growing category. I can't believe this, but the top growing category in retailers today in the U S is item finders. And I mean, that blew my mind that, that, that was the top category.

It's exciting. It's very fun to see that. And in Canada, it's the third top growing category. This is just a tell a tale that, that we're early stage of the pragmatists phase, and there's going to be a colossal growth potential moving forward. 

Jeanne Gray: I really think you sum summed up so well, the uniqueness of introducing such an innovative product and also the.

Not just us focusing on the marketing, but the difficulty in having it made and the fact that you ended up going to China through your prior product, the wallet, there was a lot of pieces that you had in place. That's led to your, your current success, but you couldn't, you didn't put them in place over the course of six months.

You were putting them in place over a course of a number of years, which has then worked out for you. It sounds like. 

Daniel Daoura: Yes, it is definitely over a number of years and it is grit and it is hard work and as you mentioned, setbacks, quite a bit of setbacks, but nothing should stop you from moving forward.

I think there are, there are things that, yes. You can't continue to move. Family, you know, is very important. But I think that there are some times where you have to say enough is enough that hasn't happened to me, right? I've had many, many setbacks and difficulties and challenges. My. Co founder who was a brother to me I saw him every day, work with him every day, passed away in 2020, it was an accident.

So it wasn't something we were prepared for and it just happened in front of my eyes. And so that was a moment that you know, I'll remember for the rest of my life, but, but the next day I woke up and I said to myself, This is now I have, I have even more motivation to continue, right? It was, it wasn't where I'm just going to give up.

It was very difficult because he was my CTO and he was, he was my technology guy. Right. Like, I mean, of course I have technology in my background, but he was the genius behind it all. And, so I, really had to figure out a way to continue to move forward. And it became a different story. It became about.

The team, it became about the people that, that we were enrolling into Pebbleby. And so some changes had to be made. And today I can very confidently say that the team, the people that work at Pebbleby and that create what Pebbleby is they're like family to me. You know, I love them. They're all Intelligent, hardworking.

They have passion for what they do. We believe in them. We believe in each other and we have our backs and we trust each other. And I think that is something very unique. And I think that is something that I'm most proud of, honestly, is Bringing people together and being able to, to develop something that adds value in this world that process, I think I'm most, I think I'm successful at that, right?

Like that to me is success and, and, and success continues to change and you always want to strive for success. And of course I still have a lot of moments and, and, and levels I want to reach within success. But I feel like I've. To that part where I'm happy where we are as a team. And I think that's the one thing that I'm most proud of.

And that's, that's also something you have to learn and it takes time, right? Years to really figure out sort of your, your position and where to create that that team and, and, and that company, right. Company of people. 

Jeanne Gray: You just kind of shared what was my, probably my last key top question was how to bring in and who to bring in the talent.

To have a sustaining vision because you know, after you move out of the kitchen, even into the basement to affect something of this magnitude requires a people skill and you've kind of shared right away. Your passion for those, those relationships. So let's kind of wrap up. If you have a few pointers for a person who is Has an innovation in tech and a tech product.

And they're in their kitchen. They had maybe not have even gotten to their basement. And maybe they have an engineering background like yourself, but they're solo. So what a couple of pointers you would say, you know, everyone says, go write a business plan. Everyone knows that now, you know, go, go. And focus on your marketing plan.

But what are two or three things that you would say, Hey, here are a couple of ducks you should consider right away when you're formulating your plan to, to introduce an innovative product. 

Daniel Daoura: That's a complex question. It could take hours to answer, but try trying to really summarize it, I believe. That everyone's different, right?

Everyone's got different ideas and different skill sets and different emotional sort of being. and I would say very important is to have passion. You have to have passion for something. And if you really have passion for something, you need to focus on that product or that company or that service that you're delivering.

A hundred percent of your time, as long as it's, you know, part of work time. Obviously family is very, very important, but focus on that. Only don't, you know, don't work on a, on another job or another business and then just have this on the side and, and, and hope that it's just gonna grow. You have to really focus on it.

You have to do everything you can. You have to be. Hustling every day, every moment to really push whatever that idea or concept or product is. It doesn't mean that you need to just, you know, have a, you have a very good job that's well paying and you just jump right away, you can. But it doesn't have to be that way.

You could, you could definitely do it in, you know, at the same time, you know, at nights after your work, you go home and you work on it. Absolutely. I think that's very important just to make sure that that business idea has peaked, right? That's going to continue to run. It's not just going to walk and stop.

And so I think it's but once you feel like, okay, you have that feeling, Okay. That it looks like this could go on its own. You need to jump into it and be a hundred percent devoted to it. Surround yourself with people that you feel have had some experience in that, but also surround yourself with people that believe in you.

Right. Believe in you and believe in the idea and the support you, because there are going to be some setbacks and failures and, and you need those people around you to lift you up. It's, it's very important. You can't do it on your own. You won't do it on your own. You, you need people around you that can help lift you up.

And I think those are some important key ingredients. 

Jeanne Gray: So I guess my last point on that is because we're talking about an innovative tech product and, you know, you came out of an engineering background, someone may be in the auto industry, someone may be, in mobile and they've got an innovation.

But so this is like a totally, I don't know, awkward way to ask this question how do you take a tech product and vet the idea? Do you need to spend 000 out of your own pocket to at least confirm that your idea is good? Is that is that the initial step that every innovative tech entrepreneur should be thinking about?

How much money do I have to spend to actually prove that this there's a demand for this product, that it's solving a pain point? 

, 

Daniel Daoura: it could be zero, zero dollars, right? For us, it was our time. It was our time. That of course there's, you know, I had, we had to buy deaf kits, et cetera, nothing, nothing big, but it was just about putting our time into it and then going out to friends and family and really asking for an honest opinion, right?

And those people really care about you. Sometimes they'll, they'll try to be nice. Right. And so you have to find people that are That are honest and that actually are using your product. And you, the way, you know, this is that you wait a week or two. And if it's a food item, let's say it's a, an energy bar.

Do people come back and ask for more, right? Hey, I love that product. I really want it. Can I, can you make me some more and you make them more and they come back with suggestions and you don't have to take all suggestions because that's overwhelming. You just want to focus on what you're doing, but you see that Continuing to come back for more.

That is a telltale right there. Now that doesn't mean you're going to be, you know, a hot success overnight. There are still going to be a larger, cause those are the, the, the small group of samples of team or people that have, you've tried to test the product with, now you go further out and you test it with a larger audience.

When I did it, there was Kickstarter and they go, they still are there. You know, they're not as big and and huge as they used to be. But there are those platforms and now you have MLL models that essentially help you with developing these ideas. You can use, you know, ChatGPT, for example, or any language model that will help you.

 Accelerate the idea and come up with better ideas to really tackle this, this market or category, whatever you're trying to develop. So I'd say use all the tools you have today. Which are way more than ever before. But also don't overwhelm yourself. So focus on the tools that really kind of have synergy with your way of thinking and, developing.

And then, take it step at a time, 

Jeanne Gray: Well, this has been great. Daniel cannot say enough your willingness to go into the real weeds of your Your venture and share your pain points and your challenges. And, and actually now your successes with, with the Google partnership happening for you.

So thank you again for being a guest on experience voices. 

Daniel Daoura: Thank you, Jeanne. guess I'll end with the journey. It's probably has definitely been challenging and rewarding. As we continue to innovate and lead the tracking industry and focus on delivering products that enhance everyday lives we'll continue to innovate and thank you so much for, for joining me today and exploring this technology and marketing and entrepreneurship.