Beyond Misophonia: Understanding Neurodiversity with Erin Mather

Erin is a digital marketing apprentice working with her mum to create "Neuro Network", which is a networking platform for neurodivergent business owners. She also created her graphics design business, Ethereal Creative Design.  Neuro Network consists of small groups of neurodiverse business owners who connect in a safe familiar space where they can be authentic unlike in a more neurotypical business environment. 

Erin has always felt different from childhood when she had immense difficulty making friends. She also later noticed she had a very strong reaction to certain sounds like chewing which she discovered was called Misophonia, a condition her mum already had. In addition, she has Misokinesia where repetitive movement is the trigger for the reaction. The reaction can be physically disabling as it impedes the ability to think and may even instigate suicidal thoughts. A very similar occurrence is seen in OCD too. 

Sarah hopes to have a workshop with Erin for neurodiverse business owners to network. Interested listeners can fill out the form below.  

Sarah has now launched her membership platform "NeuroEnigma", where neurodiverse people can have a supportive community with resources to manage ADHD or dyslexia. 

She is also offering a six-week coaching program for neurodivergent and neurotypical professionals who want to improve their career prospects or get into project management and take the PRINCE2 practitioner exam. A one-hour free session which can be booked via Sarah’s email is now available to give clients an idea of what to expect

Connect with Erin: Website (www.neuro-network.co.uk /linktr.ee/etherealcreative), LinkedIn (Erin Mather), Instagram (@neuro_networking / @ethereallycreative), Facebook (Neuro-Network), 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Hello and welcome to Divining Egma, a podcast that talks about how to navigate through the complexities of the workplace as a modern day professional while simultaneously having a side hustle. We appreciate all of our audience members for taking some time out of their day to tune into another episode and look forward to providing you all with some value through our show today. My name is Sarah and I will be the host for this podcast. This podcast will be available on all platforms where you can find podcasts, including Spotify, amazon and Apple Podcasts, and we're also on YouTube. Let's get started.

Speaker 1: 0:56

Hi, erin, welcome to Divining Eggmore. I'm so glad you've come on this podcast and, um, I want you to kind of introduce yourself in terms of what you do, um, in your life, what neurodiversities, neurodiverse conditions you have, um, your pronouns, how you prefer to be like, um, yeah, how you prefer to be addressed, and then we're going to talk a bit about your history around, who you are, and you know how your neurodiverse conditions have kind of shaped you as an individual. So, yeah, introduce yourself to my audience members and, yeah, thank you for coming on the show again.

Speaker 2: 1:36

so, okay, um my name's Erin and um I go by she she day um and um I, oh, I don't, I don't actually know what to say that's okay, just just speak.

Speaker 1: 1:53

Um. So tell me a little bit about you.

Speaker 2: 1:55

Know what you do in terms of your, your job and where you work, and yeah okay, so I'm a digital marketing apprentice, um, my mom employed me, um, and uh, I work for her, obviously, and uh, we, we created a business together called Neuro Network, which is, um, networking for neurodivergent business owners. And then I also, on the side, created my own business, which is ethereal creative design, and I just I'm a graphic designer and I do digital marketing as well.

Speaker 1: 2:35

And how long have you been doing that for?

Speaker 2: 2:38

Not that long since, only September last year.

Speaker 1: 2:42

So it's all new to you and I love the fact that I love the fact that you kind of focus directly to neurodiverse individuals, because I'm I've kind of delved into business over the years myself but never have I really seen the business world kind of made for neurodiverse individuals.

Speaker 1: 3:02

I feel like sometimes they always say, well, if you're neurodiverse for example, people that are dyslexic they say that they're very entrepreneurial and they're good at speaking to people, but sometimes when it comes to things like I don't know, like the paperwork and the administrative side of managing business, it can be very overwhelming as someone who's neurodivergent. So, yeah, I would like to like dig, delve deep into, like, what neuro networking is, so that people who are listening to this can kind of have an idea of how, how they can get help if they're running their business because this is a podcast for neurodiverse individuals who, um, are starting side hustles or they're they're running their own businesses and and how to network with other people who are in this, probably a similar position to them yeah, so, um, we do currently in events in nottinghamshire, um, and we're planning on uh, spreading out, going to other areas of the uk.

Speaker 2: 4:01

We're also going to do online sessions. So it's just a very small like um, groups of neurodivergent business owners, um, and it's just connecting. It's just like you can unmask and you can actually connect properly with other business owners. You don't have to be like, oh, am I being weird, am I being like different? Are they, do they know I'm different? Like it's just very like you're with your people, um, and we, we had our launch event on the 5th of February, um, and that went great. There was a lot of people there. It was, um, it was really nice and and there's just loads of people connecting. It was just it was really nice to see, because you don't you really get to unmask in like normal business spaces because it's always like yeah, it's always like, like I picture a room of like middle aged white men in suits, right, that's like the typical like networking event, yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:01

And then ours was just like great, like it was. You know's a lot of women there and and there's just a lot of people like they're not all dressed in suits, like I think there was probably one person dressed in a suit and that's it. So it was. It was just really nice to see like a lot of diverse people with people, like people who don't think like the majority as well. So you know, you know what you're getting and you know you don't.

Speaker 1: 5:26

You don't have to like put on a mask, you don't have to just be yourself, exactly yeah so I want to talk about you and your neurodiverse conditions and, um, like, how, how was the journey for you? Because I I guess for me I had two realizations when I found out I had a neurodiverse condition. The first is I kind of knew I had it I believe I probably had dyslexia when I was about six years old but just being undiagnosed and not known that I had no one giving me the correct support I'm supposed to get, so kind of fumbling my way through life the correct support I'm supposed to get, so kind of fumbling my way through life. And then the second part for me was like actually getting the official diagnostic test and being told, yep, you have dyslexia and you have a at the time it was ADD, but it's now called ADHD inattentive um, so I was good, it was great to know these things. But at the same time I was like, okay, I've got these conditions, what do I do next? And, yeah, how do I navigate that?

Speaker 1: 6:29

So, like, what's your story around your neurodiversity and how it? You kind of found out or knew you had a neurodiverse condition. And then what were your feelings? Initial feelings afterwards?

Speaker 2: 6:40

so I've always, I've always like felt like I was different. It's just like that feeling where it's like oh, I'm not like everyone else. I didn't have a lot of friends growing up and I really really, really struggled to make friends and it was just a bit of a weird thing because I wasn't taught about neurodivergence. I wasn't taught about neurodivergence, I wasn't taught about autism, nothing like that, and I was. I was lied to a lot. So like I was put in, like in primary school I was put in a math, a different math class because I wasn't very good at math and they told me that it was because I was good at math. So, like they, they were trying to like, just like it was obviously trying to boost my confidence.

Speaker 2: 7:25

But it was just straight up lying to me saying I was good at maths, when I was clearly really struggling, um, which was just, you know, not very nice to to experience, like when I realized like, uh, probably when I got into secondary school, when I realized that's what they did, it was like, oh, that's that kind of sucks. Um, and then I started experiencing, um, very strong reactions to like certain noises. Um, and I realized, like this isn't normal, because no one, no one else around me is like reacting like this to these noises, and it was like chewing and and stuff like that. And um, uh, so I was about 11, I searched up on the internet, oh, like, why do I hate the sound of chewing? Um, and then misophonia popped up and, uh, I read the article. I was like, oh, my god, this is exactly what I have, this is exactly me. Um, and I went to my mum and I was like, mum, this is what I've got.

Speaker 2: 8:24

Um, I read this article and I resonated. I resonated with it really well, um, and she was like, yeah, I know, and I was like, hold on, like what do you mean? You know, because I I've been struggling for quite a while now and you haven't told me anything um, and this was like her way of like protecting me. She didn't want me to like, she didn't want to tell me I had I had misophonia and then for me to like develop it if I didn't have it. If that makes sense and that's what she was worried about.

Speaker 2: 8:53

Um, but it is a neurological condition, so you are born with it, um, and it is usually like it usually only comes on a later, later age.

Speaker 2: 9:04

So I was about nine when my symptoms started um, and then it's just, it's just kind of progressed, got worse and worse um, gain more triggers, stuff like that. So what it is, if you don't know, because a lot of people don't know, um is a very strong, involuntary adverse reactions to certain noises, um, and these noises can range from like anything um, usually they're really repetitive, annoying noises. So chewing is one um, like tapping, thudding, uh, sniffling, breathing, stuff like that, um, typically human sounds, uh, which very much sucks when you you want to make friends, yeah, um. So I, to avoid it, I wear headphones all the time. Um, literally 24, 7 um, which it's annoying because it's just like it's not, like I don't want to hear it. I mean it would be great if I didn't have to hear the sounds, but I just I'm so afraid all the time of getting triggered that wearing my headphones has become sort of like a protective coping mechanism.

Speaker 1: 10:15

Yeah, um and then, like, that's that answer, just so it's right. But does that align with smells as well? Because obviously you're hearing that noise, which is very frustrating, and then you're hearing the sound of the smell of it. Does it link, because I know, with sensory, you're hearing it and then you're smelling it and then it kind of be it kind of be a sensory overlook? Because I'm just thinking in my head, if I, if I'm hearing someone chew, hearing someone eat, does that eating sound associate with the smell of what they're eating?

Speaker 2: 10:47

I don't know, I've just it's just no so it, I mean it can happen, it's, it's not, yeah, it's not unheard of or anything but like, for me personally, um, it's actually sight that links instead. So there's there's misophonia, which is like phonia, which is like phone, um, audio, um, and that's the sound.

Speaker 2: 11:07

And then misokinesia, which is like kinetic movement, so like the movement of someone's, like jaw, like eating um sometimes yeah, can sometimes trigger me, um, and like some people have like it, with, um, a leg jiggling or like repetitive movements that are annoying, and that's that's literally what it is. It's annoying repetitiveness and then it just affects us in a way that is I mean it really, really disabling, so like I get fight or fly and I I can't think and I get you know, sometimes it can be as bad as suicidal thoughts and homicidal thoughts and things like that, and so I feel a lot of guilt about it as well, because obviously I do not want to feel like that. I never want to feel like that. And it's linked with OCD as well, because a lot of people with OCD feel like that. So, like their, their thoughts, um, their repetitive, uh obsessive thoughts, are like quite similar to to the reaction that misphonics have, where it's we, we don't want it, that this is not something that we want. This is not us, it's not us doing it.

Speaker 1: 12:16

it's like the ocd, it's the misphonia, um I wanted to explain it because when people are listening to this, I don't want them to minimize the issue that you're having, because I want to actually understand, because someone could just say, oh, it's just noise, but when you're explaining to me how bad it is, I believe the audience members will actually understand oh, this is really. This can actually essentially cause someone a deep have suicide idolations and feel a deep sense of like loss because they're hearing these sounds, yeah, that it's that triggering and because sometimes people just say, oh, it's nothing, and I don't want it to be minimized.

Speaker 1: 12:52

That's why I'm asking, like you know how, how, how bad it gets because it then you could be very mindful about how people who are triggered by sensitivity of sensory overload and that's the sensory thing that really gets to you. So I, I never heard of this and I was like what's that?

Speaker 1: 13:10

and it didn't make sense. And I really had to like research and understand this, because sometimes people are very quick to minimize people's like feelings and what they're they're going through and what their, what actual thoughts affect them from certain actions that you take. But when you do explain it it's like oh, I see, yeah, I understand.

Speaker 2: 13:30

So a lot of people think like, oh, I have misophonia because I get annoyed by this sound, and it's like no, it's not. It's not simple annoyance, it's not just getting annoyed at the sound, it is you. You get fully, like your body, like it either shuts down or it goes into extreme fight or flight mode and and you you can't control it. It's incontrollable. It's not just a minor feeling, it's, it's very disabling and I consider my misophonia a disability, because I can't. I can't do normal things that other people do without a disability aid, which is my headphones.

Speaker 2: 14:06

So I can't go out to a restaurant and eat without having my headphones on full blast, because I can't listen to the clinking of the cutlery and the chewing because I will get so overwhelmed and it leads to just like it can lead to meltdowns, like similar to to autistic meltdowns and it can lead to, you know, self-harm, things like that and it's quite, it's quite overwhelming and quite dangerous as well and and obviously there's obviously different levels of it, like some people will will experience other emotions, negative emotions.

Speaker 2: 14:45

So I've heard that this one girl um, I watched this short um video on it and this one girl feels sadness, like extreme emotional, like sadness, over overwhelming and um and I don't relate to that mine's anger, so it's quite different, but they're still like similar emotions, like it's on on that same sort of level, um, of like negativity and just just feeling. Feeling so overwhelmed by this emotion and so like it's even physiological, like fight or flight. Is is the hormones, it's the adrenaline and and you, you can't, you can't stop it, it it, there's nothing you can do about it which is like the worst feeling in the world and I can imagine the stress, like chemicals that have been producing your body, the stress and the overwhelm, because I know what that's like.

Speaker 1: 15:36

It's quite probably similar to having the same feeling of burnout. You know, um, neurotypicals and neurodiverse people deal with burnout, but the only way that I can kind of, I guess, relate to it in that sense is a sense of you get an immediate burnout to the point that you, you can't function, you shut down literally, and your emotions, you just have no control over it because of this sound that others may seem like it's a minor thing, but it's not to be minimized, like you can't minimize something that all of the experience someone's feeling when they're hip, they're hearing these noises and it's making. It's basically like your whole day is messed up and yeah, exactly like, what do you do now?

Speaker 1: 16:18

this has happened and then you feel this sense of oh, but this is something minor, but it's not because it's what you are going through and how you are feeling in that moment. It's not mine and it's the same.

Speaker 1: 16:28

I mean, it's the same with, like, when people talk about mental health issues and having physical issues, because you can't see the mental health issue, people minimize it, they don't see it well, it's not an issue, you can't see it, but for someone to you know, have a big, massive cut in their leg or a gaping you know a gaping, um abscess, oh, where we have to go to hospital and stitch the person up. It's the same way with your mental health, like if your body, internally, your mind, is not in a stable way and you have a meltdown. It's a crisis. It's the same way with your mental health, like if your body, internally, your mind, is not in a stable way and you have a meltdown. It's a crisis. It's literally in the same way as if you've cut open your leg and you've got an abscess exactly and it needs.

Speaker 1: 17:06

It needs treatment, it needs to be taken care of and that's what you need to do. You have to either treat it or find a way to manage that, that pain, or manage that pain, that issue that you're having with your body. But a lot of the time, like there's so much, I feel there's a lot of research around, like mental health and, like you know, understanding how mental health issues kind of affect neurodiverse people in an impactful way as well. So I know you have one neurodiverse condition, you have another, you said as well yes.

Speaker 2: 17:34

So, um, through like research about misophonia sorry um, I I realized that, uh, well, I learned that the the comorbidity between autism and conditions like um, no, sorry misophonia, conditions like autism and ADHD and, uh, ocd as well, they were very closely linked.

Speaker 2: 17:59

And that's when I sort of realized that I was autistic. Because I did some more research into autism and I was like, oh, I'm kind of relating to everything this is talking about. You know, I had all of the, all the traits of autism and I had autistic meltdowns and I never had a name for them and, you know, my parents just thought I was having a tantrum, um, as they do, um, you know, and then my mum sort of started um sort of telling me all of these things I used to do when I was a kid and I was like, oh, like that's, that's an, that's an autism sign. Um, you know, like I used to repeat words a lot and I never used, like I didn't use sentences and I just I just repeated, like made up words to like sort of communicate, um, and my parents obviously thought this was like normal um, because it wasn't. It wasn't like a problem, it wasn't, it wasn't obvious and it wasn't like um something that would inhibit me or anything like I was talking.

Speaker 1: 19:04

Do you think that's because you're female, because a lot of the research on autism is done on males? Yes, and so how an autistic boy reacts compared to an autistic girl, did I think the way it's presented is different?

Speaker 2: 19:21

yeah, with adhd as well, yeah, autistic. So most of the research is done on white boys, little white boys. So you know the, the like, the, the struggles of even adults. You know it's age, age, race and and gender, like they're all uh affected by the research because the research is based around that, that group, which is obviously different to other groups, and it, it affects how things are viewed. So they say that you know, autistic girls and and women, uh, are more high, more likely to be high, masking um, so we, we, we mask, we mask our, our autism more than boys do um.

Speaker 2: 20:21

So like, boys are kind of brought up to be like um, not brought up, but they're raised more um by actions. And then girls are more raised with like, like, verbally, like talking and stuff, and so, like you know, little boys will be told, oh, like, go and climb that tree. And then girls, it's like you know, sit pretty, be polite, and you know stuff like that. But boys are sort of allowed to be loud and boisterous and and run around and stim. Like it's very much stimming that girls are told they're not allowed to do and boys are told that it's fine because they're boys, um, and it's just, it's just sexism and and it is getting better. But I noticed, like that, that is kind of how a lot of people are brought up, um, and it definitely affects the way that autism is viewed and how autism presents in girls versus boys. I don't think it's necessarily like a difference in the autism, it's just a difference in society how society view women compared to men and how they're treated.

Speaker 1: 21:38

um, and almost, it's almost, I guess, socially acceptable for a, a boy, to be a bit you know, I guess rowdy or a bit all over the place and a bit aggressive, because that's the expectation of of boys. Um, if a girl is like that, it's like you can't be aggressive, you've got got to be gentle, you've got to behave, and I guess because of that, many women do master autism and it's not presented until maybe later on. They're diagnosed later in life. There's a study at the moment they're doing on ADHD and Black women at Greenwich University and basically they're looking at how, because of ADHD and Black women at Greenwich University, and basically they're looking at how, um, because ADHD and black women, we tend to mask more because we we're not given that space to present our true selves, and so, um, they're doing like, um, they're doing a study in how that is and how autism affects different races, and they're looking at particularly black women, which is a very distinct group or a very diverse, a, very well, it's not a diverse group, but I guess, a group that is marginalized a lot more. So they're looking into the research and how that affects them differently because it comes with other aspects, such as culture and how other people view neurodiversity.

Speaker 1: 22:57

Within, particularly within my culture, I've got people in my family who are neurodiverse, clearly neurodiverse, clearly, like it's so obvious. But the problem is there's a stigma within our community to basically say, oh, this person has potentially autism. No, no, no, no, no, no, they don't have autism. Yeah, and you'll have that ignorance of like pretending it's not there. It's a lot of pretending in our community.

Speaker 2: 23:22

oh, 100%, yeah, yeah, yeah, it happened. It's a lot with, like other older generations as well, that I've noticed like, um, you know my grandparents will like completely just kind of ignore that I've got misophonia. Um, even though I've explained it to them and they know all of the nuances and stuff like that, they just kind of pretend it's not there and just let me do what I want and it's like, yeah, I mean you could do that all you want, but it's still going to be there, like I'm still disabled, you can't really change that. And um, they'll, they'll. You know that they, they don't talk about it a lot. They've. They've gotten a lot better now, um, recently, because obviously me and my mum started NeuroNetwork and it's kind of you know. But I noticed that, like a lot of the older generations, just they, they don't like talking about mental health.

Speaker 1: 24:14

They don't talk about oh yeah, definitely it doesn't exist in stuff like that, oh yeah, definitely it doesn't exist.

Speaker 2: 24:19

No, exactly.

Speaker 1: 24:23

Physically, in my culture it does not exist, and a lot of the time they would say things like you know, the child will grow out of it, They'll grow out of it, it's nothing there. I was a bit like that when I was. No, they're a disabled child. They need the proper care and assistance. But yeah, it does take. It takes a long time to change those attitudes because it's so ingrained. It's so ingrained into into society and how it's viewed. Um, but doing?

Speaker 1: 24:48

so much stigma yes, yes, there's so much.

Speaker 1: 24:52

I mean doing podcasts like this and just doing your business as well, but neural networking, it brings a voice to people that are not allowed to voice who they are or be who they want to be. Um, I want you, before we go on this podcast, I want you to talk to me a little bit about your, your childhood as a neurodiverse woman. Today, I I remember you telling me um, you didn't have a fantastic experience at secondary school, I believe. Um, we know, obviously, like from from when you were a child and growing up with your parents, there were tendencies that they could recognize that potentially you may have had autism, but it was almost overlooked because you were a girl. Um, we want to kind of move that forward and talk about how it was for you when you were a girl. We want to kind of move that forward and talk about how it was for you when you were in school and what experiences you had of being a neurodiverse young girl at school and the experiences that you faced when you were dealing with your I guess, your peers.

Speaker 2: 25:54

Okay, I guess your peers yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 25:59

So yeah, I didn't have a very good experience in school. In fact, it was the worst experience of my life. It was just a lot of bullying. So in primary school I didn't recognise it at at all, I didn't know I was being bullied. I didn't know what was happening because I didn't I didn't really, I just didn't know what was going on. Like I feel like I didn't exactly like grow a conscience until I was like 12 or something. Um, and I just like, looking back on it now I know that I was being bullied, but at the time, in primary school at least, I didn't, I didn't understand it. I didn't know why people didn't want to be my friend. I didn't, I just didn't know and it led to me kind of thinking oh, maybe maybe I'm an alien, like maybe maybe my mum is an alien and and she and that then that's why I'm so different, because I'm half alien, and I believed that for a long time, like I, I honestly believe I was like part alien and like that's why I was so weird. Um, like I never told anyone because I thought people would think I was crazy, but it was in the back of my mind, I was just like, yeah, that's, that's definitely why I'm so weird. Um, and then, obviously, like finding out about autism, I was like that's why I'm like thinking I'm an alien and stuff. Um, but yeah, the secondary school was absolutely horrific.

Speaker 2: 27:26

Um, I I experienced really bad bullying. Um, like there was there was like uh, one guy that like spat on the back of my head on the bus. Um, people were throwing stuff at me. Um, people were like calling me all sorts of names and like shoving and pushing all the time. Um, I remember trying to tell like teachers about it and they just kind of brushed it off, like because I I like, again, I didn't really kind of know how to sort of ask for help. I didn't. I didn't really know what was going on. I didn't know why they were doing this. I thought I kind of know how to sort of ask for help. I didn't. I didn't really know what was going on. I didn't know why they were doing this. I thought I kind of deserved it for some reason. So I thought like, oh, like, a lot of people are doing this to me, so obviously this there's got to have some reason for it. Um, and now obviously I know the reason is because they're just cruel and I was neurodivergent. I presented differently to everyone else and I was just, I was just a weird kid, so it was.

Speaker 2: 28:24

It was very difficult, um, and a lot of the teachers didn't understand either, because obviously, like because I wasn't diagnosed, it wasn't on my record or anything um, you know I was. I was diagnosed with misophonia when I was 12. So my mum did get me diagnosed after I, after I told her and I had it and uh, and that that helped a little bit. I mean, I was allowed like a timeout card and stuff, so like I could leave lesson whenever I wanted and the teachers were a little less like harsh on me for like being late and stuff like that.

Speaker 2: 29:00

Um, but I remember like hiding in toilets because I didn't want to go to lesson, because there was people in that class that I knew would bully me and hurt me and and like there was one time when, like someone chewed directly in my face, like chewed gum in my face, because they knew it would get me to leave the class, um, and then like another person uh did that to to get me out of a chair that they wanted to sit in, and it was just like all of this stuff going on and it it just it led me to be, like you know, really upset and a little bit depressed as well.

Speaker 2: 29:38

Um, and I'm just, I'm glad it got better. When I got to college, um, you know, doing my A-levels it was much better, like people, people knew I was different still, but there was a lot less bullying going on and you know, like people were older, so and people, people were all in like a new place, so it wasn't as it wasn't as bad. Um, you know, I got stared at and stuff, but I just wore my headphones and I was all right. Um, but yeah, secondary school was never again.

Speaker 1: 30:10

I feel like, um, it depends on. Secondary school can be a horrible time, particularly for some neurodivergent. Um, I can't say I enjoyed secondary school. Can be a horrible time, particularly for some neurodivergent. Um, I can't say I enjoyed secondary school myself. I feel like it's been such a long time ago that I literally think that part of my brain has kind of just deleted, um, I think, with me in secondary school.

Speaker 1: 30:35

I think I I in my first year at ES7, I found it difficult to make friends. I think one of my, one of my memories I could just about remember secondary school because I'm super old but like one of one of my memories is that I remember that we would be given a timetable to follow in school and I obviously I had dyslexia, but I wasn't diagnosed with it. And I remember like, because I couldn't remember the lessons I had that day I would carry every single one of my books with my heavy backpack or I forget it's a saddle bag I had at the time, I can't remember, but it was not good for my back anyway and I would carry everything because I wasn't sure what lesson I had. When I look back, that was probably definitely a trait of dyslexia, because I couldn't remember whether I had double science that day or if I had English or I just didn't know. So I just bought everything, like it was kind of yeah not good for your back, but good for your brain.

Speaker 1: 31:39

Yeah, yeah, because I was just. I just didn't know where I was gonna go and then, um, I think I couldn't remember where all the classrooms were, so, like I didn't know, like I even though, like I've gone I couldn't remember which room. It's really like. This is the thing that people don't think about when you have dyslexia I have no sense of direction, I can't remember how to get to places. I'm always getting lost.

Speaker 1: 32:02

I've even been in situations I've had it on previous episodes on my podcast where literally I had a job interview. It was for a really good company, but I couldn't find where the office was. So I didn't go and I had something like Google Maps and it just Google Maps is rubbish, I don't know what, or maps, whatever. I had trying to figure out this place and I couldn't find it and in the end I just gave up and said you know what? I'm not going to find that job, it's fine. I just left it and, um, they were like are you coming? And I was like I didn't even respond back to the email. I just thought there's no point, because they're not even going to give me the job, because I came late. I can't find the place. What's the point I just literally just gave, I just gave up, basically. So, like, um, and it's really frustrating because at the time you're panicking, you're getting flustered and people might assume that you're being lazy, but it takes a lot of brain power for me to find ways around where I'm going. So, yeah, I do remember that point in school where I just couldn't remember stuff. And I think one girl I remember I was following these groups of these group of girls who were, I guess, somewhat the popular girls I don't know, and I followed them and one girl noticed I was always following them because I couldn't remember what class I had to go to.

Speaker 1: 33:19

I do remember that in secondary school, um, but I one thing I think that was my saving grace was the fact that I was quite chatty and I would chat to everybody. So I think that kind of helped me, even though I was probably very severely dyslexic, um, still dyslexic, but just have better ways of managing myself. And it was only when I got to, I guess, when I got to university. So the last, the last year for uni, actually, when I did my postgraduate, when I got an official diagnosis that I was dyslexic and when I found out I had dyslexia and, obviously at the time, the ADD.

Speaker 1: 34:00

I was relieved but I was really annoyed at the same time because I just felt like so I'm working 20-25 times harder than everybody and nobody helped me. I had to figure this all off on my own and it just felt like there were loads of things that I missed out on opportunities because of my dyslexia, because of the fact that I was trying to figure out ways I could cope. It really was bad to the point that I used to always feel like can I have a different brain? That can someone take my brain and give me a brand new brain? My brain is broken.

Speaker 1: 34:34

That is the feeling my brain is broken, literally I'm tired of this. So I had. So that's literally how I used to feel. Like I just felt like I'm broken, like there's something wrong with me, something needs to be corrected or you just need to give me a new brain, because I don't know why I can't remember this, I can't figure this thing out. It's just I'm broken, um, and I literally felt like that every single day. Like every day, like I wake up, and sometimes I would dream and wake up. Can I wake up and not have dyslexia or something like that? And the weird thing about being neurodivergent or having a neurodiverse condition some days it's not as bad as others, because sometimes your neurodiversity can help you get through certain things. So, like um, at work I have like loads of stuff. I'm a project manager and I have to log all of the issues, risks and dependencies that work on all the projects and I'll go into super focus and I'll put my headphones on. I'll be doing loads of work.

Speaker 1: 35:32

I'll get so much done and there'll be weeks, like a couple weeks back, I was procrastinating, I did nothing, even things that I actually want to do. I just won't do it and it's really annoying because I love doing what I do. But there are days that your brain just can't muster up the motivation, or like you just can't do it, and people will think, oh, you're being lazy, it's not laziness it's, it really is executive dysfunction.

Speaker 2: 36:02

That's what it is. Yeah, it's. It's the executive dysfunction that comes with being adhd or autistic or you know pretty much any neurodivergent condition. Um, you know, especially adhd. That's like.

Speaker 2: 36:16

The executive dysfunction with that is really harsh. Like my brother and my mom both have ADHD, um, and I'm pretty, I'm pretty sure either I've got some ADHD traits or I'm ADHD myself or whatever, because I do really relate to them. Maybe it's because I've obviously grown up with them. But, um, yeah, my brother's only a year younger than me as well, so we went through a lot of the same sort of things together at the same time. And, um, yeah, the executive dysfunction is really really annoying because, like, sometimes you'll be in hyper focus and and you'll be getting stuff done like, uh, for example, I, I had focused on like getting all of my um business done. The other like week it was um, like doing all my prices and like all of the graphics and stuff like that. And then, like the week later, a week later, I was like yeah, no, I don't want to do this anymore, nothing like.

Speaker 1: 37:09

It's like you don't want to do nothing and it's like they don't enjoy it. And I'm like why can't I get my brain to be like that? And you're like, oh yeah, it's frustrating people.

Speaker 2: 37:19

You get the guilt as well, because you think, oh yeah, people think I'm being lazy, I'm not trying hard enough, and it's, it's not it's so annoying because people just don't understand like I want to do this task, I want to do it, I want to get out of bed and do this task, but my brain will not let me. It's not that I don't want to do it, it's not that I'm lazy, it's just I, I, my brain won't let me, my, my brain just says no. And that's what people just don't understand about executive dysfunction and neurodivergence they just they don't understand how hard it is for us, um, and like how disabling is as well, like yeah, okay, we, we have superpowers, like we can hyper focus and and we have like super hearing, whatever. But then there's the other side and it's it's the disabling side, it's the I can't get out of bed, it's the, it's the. You know I don't have any friends, I'm so lonely, I'm depressed.

Speaker 2: 38:16

You know, it's all of those type of things that people just like kind of forget about sometimes, especially with like I've seen it in like autism, like awareness stuff. And it's like people are like yeah, yeah, you've got a superpower, you're, you're like, you're autistic, you've got superpower, you're, you're, you're, you're superhuman. It's like no, I'm disabled. It's yeah, okay, there's, there's some positives to it, but you've got to understand that the world is not built for disability, the world is not built for neurodivergent people, it's not built for, you know, even people who, who are, you know, in wheelchairs, even people with physical disabilities and especially people with mental disabilities. So one.

Speaker 1: 38:56

One thing I want to talk about is the superpower notion. Um it. It can work to the greatness of neurodivergent people to make them feel a sense of confidence in themselves, but it can also be very detrimental because and the reason why I say this is because sometimes someone's neurodiverse condition you might say, oh, as a dyslexic person, I can be an entrepreneur, because we see examples, for example Richard Branson and some like really successful dyslexic entrepreneurs. But what if that doesn't translate for me as a dyslexic person? What if I'm not succeeding? And sometimes we have to be very careful about this notion of superpower and people having this perception that if you have a neurodiverse condition, you're almost better than other people and you have that edge because of this neurodiverse condition. And even as a neurodivergent, you might look at someone else who is also a neurodivergent person, who's doing incredibly well in their career, incredibly well in their life, and everything seems all picture perfect. And you're wondering, well, if they can do it, why can't I?

Speaker 2: 40:11

do it.

Speaker 1: 40:12

And the reflection of their neurodiverse condition doesn't seem the same. It's not the same for me. They're doing it and then you're a divergent, but it's not the same for me and this is why I'm very like, very much against toxic positivity.

Speaker 2: 40:26

Yeah, I'm not saying that I listened to the podcast you did recently. Yeah, um, you know, I remember you mentioning that. Yeah, it's it, I. It's like it's condescending, like for someone to say, oh, you've got a superpower. It's just because obviously there's all these struggles that a lot of neurodivergent people experience and obviously, like, not everyone with adhd is going to struggle with the same things, not everyone with autism is going to struggle with the same, the same thing, the same with everything, um, but there's always going to be some sort of struggle that is related to neurodivergence, whether it be something minor or something, you know, really major I think it kind of undermines the person's experience of what they're going through.

Speaker 1: 41:09

As a neurodivergent, yes, and I think a lot of the time we have to be very careful as to use terms like superpower and saying that someone should, should, she should, see it as a positive, but that is not a positive. I, I love being around neurodivergent people like myself. I believe we're amazing individuals, but we also have to be quite realistic with what we can and cannot do because, yeah, I don't want people feeling that because they can't be like x or y or a or b, that they're, that they're useless, because that can actually be more harmful than I guess helpful in this.

Speaker 1: 41:49

Yeah, absolutely yeah, I, I, yeah. So this is the thing I've. I try not to. I try not to like take away from the fact you have a neurodiverse condition and you've got to strengthen that. But also, it's okay to be weak, it's okay to say I, you know what?

Speaker 2: 42:07

I, I'm not super woman, I am not superman, I can't do these things and I'm disabled and that's fine, you know um and people forget as well that, like the, the word disability, or like the, the entire concept of neurodivergence and disability, it's not a negative or a positive thing. It's just a thing. People. People try and make it positive or people try and make it negative, but it is just, it's a neutral thing, it's just a concept and we shouldn't be trying to make it positive or negative, because there's a lot of both that incorporates into into it. You know, there's a lot of positivity, there's a lot of negativity, and that's that's just what life is, and I don't think it should be this like big thing. Where it's, it's oh yeah, you've either got a superpower or you're you're like broken. You know there's like two sides of it and it's. It's everything at once.

Speaker 1: 43:09

It's not just one or the other, exactly. There's more nuance to it, not just, yeah, exactly. It's interesting you use the term disability and so when I speak to some neurodivergents, they prefer to refer themselves as disabled. Some see, they have a learning difference. Um, I was always on like, oh, I'm different, but then, at the same time, I'm actually comfortable knowing my seeing myself as a disabled woman. I'm okay with that concept because I know that it's there's enough.

Speaker 1: 43:40

There's no shame with being disabled, absolutely it's just what I am, but it doesn't mean I'm unable of doing things. So there's no inability, and I think the word disabled is that you're disabled. You don't have the ability to do something. I have the ability to do something, but I have a disability which prevents me from doing it the the way you do it. So, for example, exactly, yeah, I have I have um an aunt, she has um.

Speaker 1: 44:06

She was born with polio and she has, you know, she's not able to walk. She didn't get the um injection when she was younger. She grew up and her parents came from a background when leaving, giving her, you know, in um, what do you call them? Um, the jabs that you're supposed to get. So she was born with polio, but she does not see herself as disabled. She literally doesn't see herself that way. She sees herself as just like you and me. It's just that she has to do things a bit differently. She has to figure out how to get to her wheelchair in a different way and do things. But she doesn't like, she doesn't even view herself as disabled. But she will say I'm a disabled person, but I'm not in. It's not. It's not that I'm enabled to do the things that you can do. I can still do the things you do, I just do yes, I'm disabled.

Speaker 1: 44:56

It turns out I don't have functioning legs, but I'm still like she has. She has her own cake business, I'm telling you she has her own cake business.

Speaker 2: 45:04

That's exactly it. That is where like, like people, just people want to view it as as something that's like sad or something that's like upsetting. So I do understand the notion of like, oh, you've got a superpower, because it's like it's positivity, but, like you said, it's toxic positivity. It, it minimizes the, the, the, you know difficulties that we go through as disabled people and it um, I've lost my point.

Speaker 1: 45:33

No, no, I get. No, I get what you mean. So, from the fact that you're minimizing the person, the fact they have a disability yes, I'd say that because they have a disability. Therefore, we should be sorry for the fact that you're minimizing the person, the fact they have a disability yes, I'd say that because they have a disability. Therefore, we should be sorry for the person. Martha doesn't want you to feel sorry for her. Yeah, exactly, she is disabled, but she doesn't want you to feel sorry for her. She still. Yeah, there's a very active life, she runs her own business and she does well at it don't see anything other than what it is.

Speaker 2: 45:59

Yeah, yeah, disability isn't a bad thing. It is is never a bad thing. Like everyone becomes disabled at some point in their life, from either old age or you know some sort of accident, or they're born like it. You know pretty much everyone, unless you know they die young, pretty much. That's that's like it's an inevitable inevitability and and people forget that. People forget, like it, disability isn't just someone in a wheelchair, it isn't just someone without legs. It isn't. It isn't a sad thing, it isn't a super positive thing.

Speaker 2: 46:35

It's, it's just a thing and it's just what you have. It's, it's just something that makes us different and it's a label. It's a label, you know it's, it's just a label for, for a difference that we experience and something that we can all sort of relate on. And it sort of relates to that like intersectionality, where it's like, you know, like, uh, disability, um, poverty, uh, race and and gender, that they're all, they're all, and queerness as well, they're all in in sector. Like we all experience marginalization, we all experience the feeling of of being different and, and you know, in in a society that's not necessarily built for us in mind. You know, like society is like built for straight white men. That's what society's built for straight, abled white men like. That's it.

Speaker 1: 47:32

They're young and fit, and healthy, exactly yeah, yeah, able-bodied straight white men it's interesting because I was talking to a friend about this.

Speaker 1: 47:44

There's some studies that they are saying that a lot of the medical conditions have all been like testing on white men. Yeah, basically, as there's a lot of conditions that are now kind of tethered up up, like, for example, if you look at female health or women's health, a lot of the time women were not tested on, like their gynecological health and menstrual cycles. So a lot of the time when you have things like very common in black women's fibroids, or like in um white women, it will be um, what's the other one where you get? Um, the lining of your womb tends to, tends to.

Speaker 1: 48:23

Oh, what's it called? Again, it's got out of my head now, but there's a lot of like gynecological issues that women have that haven't really been like looked into, not tested, and thought as to why these things are happening. And oh, ah, it's come to my head, it's a very long word um, it's when, oh gosh, there's ovarian cysts. Um, there is, the word is in my head but I can't say it. This is the dyslexia coming it's in my head it's in my head, but basically it's.

Speaker 1: 48:58

It's when the lining of the womb is always um, you're always having a lot of pain when you're having periods. Yeah, um, it's very typical in caucasian white women.

Speaker 2: 49:08

Endometriosis, endometriosis yeah, yeah that's it, that's it, yeah, yeah, and they haven't done any tests on why women are having these issues.

Speaker 1: 49:17

They're just like oh well, that's what it is.

Speaker 2: 49:19

Oh my god did you know that they only just tested period products with blood, like?

Speaker 1: 49:26

before doesn't even make any sense because it's like stupid, it's like what like?

Speaker 2: 49:31

why aren't you testing products meant for blood with blood? Why are you testing it with water? They're completely different things. Consistency not only like, is menstrual blood different to normal blood, it's like it's from a completely different part of the body and it incorporates the uterine tissue as well. Oh, that's something, that's a fact that like really pissed me off, like the other day when I learned about it, because, yeah, I've heard a lot about yeah, periods, just women's health care, it it's an absolute nightmare. They just don't do enough research.

Speaker 1: 50:07

And they don't know why women have these issues. You know, and really a lot of research should go into it just to find out why we have these issues. And again I was talking to my friend about we should try to link, like how neurodiversity and menstrual, your menstrual cycle, can affect your neurodiverse condition as a woman, because it does affect you in a different way. I know, when I'm on that time of the month as a woman and I'm dealing with my ADHD, it gets so much worse. My hormones are like, and then with the ADHD, it's just 10 pounds worse. I'm out. I'm out literally.

Speaker 1: 50:48

Don't come and talk to me about it because it's not, but, um, yeah, there needs to be more research about that, because I. This is the reason why neurodiverse conditions tend to present themselves very differently in women in comparison to men and all a lot of the research is done on men and male bodies and you know how, how their bodies will react to certain conditions. I mean, if, if, um, if men will go, have, go through periods every month, oh, god they have, like they have period leave.

Speaker 1: 51:18

They'd have everything you know free menstrual products, yeah, but you have to pay for all these things. I'm just thinking this should be free. But yeah, that's a whole other topic.

Speaker 2: 51:30

That's where like the intersectionality comes in, doesn't it? It's like people in poverty can't afford the menstrual products. It's a necessity. It's not like it's something you can control or anything, and yeah, it's just. That's a whole.

Speaker 1: 51:46

That's a whole other topic but yeah, those are things that kind of yeah, that's the intersectionality of dealing with neurodiversity conditions and being a woman and dealing with race and sexuality. All of those things all affect people in very complex and unique ways to what they're going through, but still valid to what they're going through as well. I wanted to kind of like talk um kind of because we've had a really I love this, I love this episode. You're one of. I love this episode. Yeah, it's really really I really I'm enjoying what we're talking about. Um, I wanted to talk about um going back to your, your, um your own business that you started in terms of like so working with, with social media, um influencers as well, who are potentially neurodiverse and marketing for them. I think that's what you want to go into.

Speaker 2: 52:43

Yeah, yeah, it is so I'd like, I'd really love to, you know, create like graphics and and and like um, uh, promotional materials, things like that for business owners, but especially neurodivergent business owners, because I, I feel like it's just like there's a difference there in like I'd rather work for someone who is neurodivergent than someone is who is neurotypical, just because I relate to them more. And there's this, the the communication aspect, where it's usually pretty similar between you know, because, like there there's a study on, like how neurotypical people don't understand neurodivergent people's communication and vice versa, and then neurodivergent people understand other neurodivergent people's communication and vice versa as well, and like vice versa as well. So I just feel like there'll be more of a connection there and there'll be more of a chance to actually help people.

Speaker 1: 53:50

Um, yeah, just yeah, I I. It's interesting to say that. Do you know what I find?

Speaker 1: 53:53

I find neurodiverse people are able to understand neurotypicals, but neurotypicals are not able to understand neurodiverse. And the reason why I say that is because, as a neurodiverse woman, I'm able to pick up on, I'm able to learn the social cues of neuro neurotypical people easily and get how they behave, because I've learned how to mask over the years. But when it comes to my neurodiverse condition, there was what no one wants to understand it. They just expect you to just understand and get on with it, knowing that my brain does not function in the same way. So I find generally I don't know, maybe it's different, but I find generally with with neurodiverse people, we are able to adapt to neurotypicals because we've had to, but it takes a lot of effort for us to do it. 100, that's massive. It doesn't take, it doesn't like yeah, it doesn't take effort for them to do it. They can do it easily if they wanted, but they choose not to that's what exactly and that's like, that's the ableism, like that, that's that.

Speaker 2: 54:56

It's just. I mean that's what it is and you know people can deny that. But when you, you, when you refuse to understand a disabled person's perspective, it's ableism because you, you have the resources, you have the understanding, you have the knowledge, but you just refuse, you're just ignorant, you know, you just refuse to learn about that and understand it. And that's where people have these ideas and these miscommunications, misconceptions about disability.

Speaker 1: 55:37

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Ableism is real. It's real, um, and that's this is why people are disabled mask. They have to pretend to be yeah and but it. And this is the thing when I was, when I kind of stopped masking, I don't feel as exhausted, I remember, because I was masking, it took a lot. It's exhausting, it's tiring, like it is very tiring. You don't want to be trying to be something, you're not. So I'm glad you've got a business like yours, because I don't have to pretend to be something. I'm not, because it is exhausting it really is tiring.

Speaker 1: 56:13

Yeah, um, I wanted to talk more about your, your current, where you are currently apart from your business, where you are currently in your life, because I know you spoke, um quite in a lot of depth about how your secondary school life is and where you are now okay uh.

Speaker 2: 56:30

So, uh, my mum employed me as her digital marketing apprentice because she has, um a business in hypnotherapy. Um, and then, like, shortly after that, we started Neuro Network. Um, because she took me, she took me along to like networking events and I was just really struggling because, like, um, the saucers and the cups were like clinking constantly. It was, it was not very nice and, um, she couldn't really focus on like people speaking either, because obviously ADHD it's a focus issue and um, then you know, she had the idea of no network and, uh, I helped, you know, design all of the um, the logo and and I manage our social media.

Speaker 2: 57:15

Um, which is pretty exciting, I'm pretty proud of, of doing all of the like branding and stuff. Um, because it's like it was my first time actually doing the full sort of brand kit and like everything. Like I've done logos and stuff for people before, but it's never been as as big as this and and actually, like they've, like we've used everything that I've I've done, so it's it's really nice. We've not got any help from anyone else and it's all us, so it feels really nice and personal and and, just like you know, it's it's neurodivergent networking by us as well, like I like it. I like it a lot, um. And then obviously this year I uh my mum encouraged me to start my own business because I really really enjoyed um doing like the graphic design and all of the uh branding. Um, and yeah, I'm looking forward to getting clients. I haven't had any new ones yet, um, but I really am looking forward to to actually getting like a client base. Um, I just need to actually do my social media.

Speaker 2: 58:32

It'll take time, but you will get it's just one thing that I'm like, like I love helping other people but I don't like helping myself and you'll find that it's very typical of neurodiverse people.

Speaker 1: 58:47

We're always happy to help others and then, when it comes to us, we're like, yeah, yeah, I'm in the same position, I'm helping people, my family, and I forget to actually, you know, pour it into myself, like so I can help others better. But yeah, um, I tend to find a lot of neurodiverse people tend to be the most given, most kindest people, tend to be more forgiving. I find the ones I've come across so far like I've not come across any neurodiverse person as such that's been necessarily mean or anything, just really understanding. It's more of the neurotypicals that are like, you know, they have time, yeah, they have time, so, yeah.

Speaker 1: 59:30

So I also wanted to um kind of like we could kind of kind of skip into um more about your views, about what you think you see yourself as a neurodiverse woman, what your hopes are for the future in terms of how society should view neurodiversity, and also talk about your day to day. Like do you find that I'm just trying to figure out how to ask this question, but I always ask guests, like, what are the like positive traits of your neurodiverse condition and also what are the negative traits of your neurodiversity and going forward. What do you hope? That most neurodiverse people see their lives as as potentially business owners or entrepreneurs or just working for a corporation where they can kind of navigate that, that, that arena for themselves.

Speaker 2: 1:00:26

So I really hope, like for the future, that more businesses incorporate, you know the like neurodiversity training so they understand it completely and actually incorporate it into you know their work and and how they interact with people. Um, I want it to be like more widespread, like I I don't want it to be this little secret, like it tends to be like, oh, this little secret, like, oh no, we, we can't, you know, uh, tell people about this. Like it it's very like that, like the stigma around it and there just shouldn't be any. You know, we should just be able to talk about it freely and and not be afraid to say things and and and ask for help and things like that. I just I don't want it to to to be a little taboo, you know, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:01:23

That's how people treat, you know, disability.

Speaker 2: 1:01:26

So I don't I want it to become more, just more awareness around it. And I also, you know, I see obviously the positive aspects of my neurodivergence and the negative aspects. So, like, I obviously experience autistic meltdowns and they can be really exhausting and and potentially harmful and um, but I have a lot of people around me to help with that um, so, like I, you know my boyfriend's really understanding, um, my parents are quite understanding as well, and my friends always, you know, there for me, um, and you know there is struggles and and I do get depressed and and I do, you know, have a lot of anxiety. But I think, with like, with like going on podcasts, like I am and you know, talking to more people, talking to more neurodivergent people, um, gaining more of like a community, I think it's it's going to become a lot, a lot better for me. I think I can see, I can see myself thriving, you know, which is really nice to kind of imagine, not that I'm not thriving, it's just, you know, you're thriving, you're thriving.

Speaker 2: 1:02:55

I think you know I'd like to just progress more, just like have less anxiety, be a little bit more happy and content, and I hope to see that for other neurodivergent business owners as well. You know, in NeuroNetwork especially, you know meeting all these new people and they all have these intricate, interesting lives and you know they're neurodivergent and they have similar struggles and I'd like to see them.

Speaker 1: 1:03:23

You know they're, they're neurodivergent and they have similar struggles and I'd like to see them, you know, thriving as well. Amazing how can people find?

Speaker 2: 1:03:29

you. So we're on instagram, uh, facebook, um, linkedin as well, um, all under neural network, um or neural networking, with a um little underscore between it. On instagram, um, and then, I'm sorry, I'm uh ethereal creative design, um on instagram, facebook and linkedin as well I'll put all the um, all the links in the show notes for people to find that.

Speaker 1: 1:04:00

Um, and have you got any sort of last thoughts? Actually, there was something I wanted to bring up, but I haven't got a date for the audience members. We need to do like a workshop, either in person or we could do it, um, virtually. I haven't got a date, but what I want to do is um on on my website, um, and I'll put that in the show notes. Um, I wanted to uh, basically put you yourself down to register for a potential workshop me and everyone would do around neural networking.

Speaker 1: 1:04:29

Um, we haven't got a date set, but I would definitely want to do something with you, erin, in future so that we can get people together from both of our communities and network um, particularly people that have inside hustles um, or who are um business owners, and just network of other businesses as well. We can definitely have a workshop. I haven't decided if we do it online or in person, but I'm going to put a registration form in my, in my bio and also in the show notes. So when you're listening to this episode, please register your interests and then, if we get enough numbers, I'm sure we'll get quite a lot of people coming through. We'll host the show and then I'll announce it on my socials, and so we'll air in as well. Any last thoughts?

Speaker 2: 1:05:14

no, I don't think so. I think we've got everything, don't we yeah?

Speaker 1: 1:05:17

we've covered everything. Yeah, we talked. I loved it. This was like a really lovely conversation and thank you for sharing yourself, your business, your time and your kindness and generosity onto Divided Enigma, and I'm really honoured that you came on this podcast with me. It's been a pleasure, so thank you so much, thank you.

Speaker 2: 1:05:42

Thank you for having me. I've really, really enjoyed it. It's been great.

Speaker 1: 1:05:47

I want to let our audience members know about the six-week coaching program that I will be offering for people who are neurodivergent, um or you can be neurotypical who want to improve their career prospects in general or just want to get into project management. I mentioned this earlier in my previous episodes, but I want to ensure that I take the time to offer it up again for those who are looking for help in those areas of their life. It's a great way to learn skills to help you advance in your career. I'm also offering support to people who want to pass the PRINCE2 exam, as I've taken and failed the test a few times, and I would like to help others by showing them how I pass. Now, if this sounds interesting to you or you'd like to learn more, please reach out to me directly, um, via email, which is at hello at divine enigmaorg, or you can dm me on my social media, which is all divine enigma. And I've also launched this is the thing I've been waiting for a while.

Speaker 1: 1:06:57

I've launched my membership, neuro Enigma. It's currently priced at £25 a month until this Sunday, so, depending on what time, so this episode at the moment I'm recording it on the 16th of February, so the offer will end on the 18th of February, so hopefully by the time we discuss this episode, it will be maybe you might have missed that on offer, and then I'll be increasing it to £35 a month. But if you sign up annually, you will only have to pay £150 for the whole year, plus the first five people to sign up to Neuro Enigma will be given a sad lamp in the post and a sad lamp. You're probably asking what's this? It's a lamp that is used to help people regulate their sleep patterns, particularly if we're in a country like the UK or some parts of the world where you tend to have very short days and very long nights, and so that can disrupt your mood and give you seasonal depression ultimately. So, yes, if you do sign up annually, it's 150. After that the price will increase to 250 per year, and within that membership I'll be having monthly coaching calls. I'll also be having many experts on neurodiversity come on to the platform to teach you about different techniques on how you can manage your neurodiverse conditions.

Speaker 1: 1:08:36

Um, we'll be having in-person meetups internationally and in the UK as well, and there's so many more things that I'll offer for you to really get the most of this membership. So I will suggest you check the bio if you're watching on YouTube, or you can also check the show notes of this podcast. So if this sounds like a fantastic offer for you and it is a fantastic offer because very soon it will go up in price and you will not get this offer again please go to neuroenigmacom and sign up. Like I always like to say at the end of each episode, please follow me on all platforms where you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening to Divine in Egma and, if you got to the end, this is a safe place for project managers, professionals, side hustlers, people who own businesses, to give you the tools and tips on how to navigate the complexity of being neurodiverse in the workplace. I'll see you soon. Take care bye.