Regenerative Health with Max Gulhane, MD
I speak with world leaders on circadian & quantum biology, metabolic medicine & regenerative farming in search of the most effective ways of optimising health and reversing chronic disease.
Regenerative Health with Max Gulhane, MD
93. Dr Brian Grimm: Field Theory and the Quantum Biology of Clinical Medicine
Beyond pharmaceuticals, Dr Brian Grimm presents an entire new approach to health and disease with a mitochondria-first perspective of 'field biology' based on light, water and magnetism.
In this interview we cover how biophoton emissions coordinate cellular activities throughout the body, and how disrupting these signals may underlie many chronic diseases. We discuss why people with darker skin living at high latitudes face unique health challenges, and how simple adjustments to light exposure and meal timing can produce profound health benefits without medication.
Dr Grimm is a practising Critical Care Physician in California.
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Okay, back on the Regenerative Health Podcast and I am speaking with Dr Brian Grimm Now. He is a practicing high-acuity medicine physician and he is someone who's emerged on my radar quite recently with some very, very insightful writings and posts on the topics of light and health and a new field he's coining as field biology. So, brian, thanks for joining me.
Speaker 2:Thank you, it's a pleasure to be here. Thanks, matt.
Speaker 1:So tell us about this idea of field biology and how is it relevant to what you're doing with patient care and thinking about medical care that you're administering.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you know I don't think it's the go-to answer for everything, but when it comes to what I think about field biology, it's more of a kind of a coherence sort of thing. We talk about light, water, magnetism and how they affect the body, but then what happens with those once they kind of interact with a molecule, and it's these feedback loops, it's these circuits that we don't in emergency medicine and primary care, that sometimes we don't take a look at those and we don't consider those with treatment plans and things like that. So I think zooming out and taking a look at the field and how that field is being created and how it's reverberating with those molecules, and making those little lock and key mechanisms work, I think is important. I don't use it really as the answer, but I use it as kind of a flag in a field of battleground of health versus disease, and I just it's supposed to.
Speaker 2:What I use it for is to remind me to take a look at these things that are kind of between the CBCs. Right, that isn't the hemoglobin, it's not the hematocrit, but it may be ratios based on that, and I think that's why I like the term. I'm not trying, there's a ton of overlap. It's quantum biology, field biology, and I'm not trying to to own some phrase, I'm just trying to remind myself to say hey, sometimes it's not about this one thing, it's about all of these things together and we have to take in all those things at one time, which, as doctors, we don't love to do. We love one answer to be the answer for everything, but unfortunately it's not usually the case.
Speaker 1:I think the fact that you're even thinking about a framework to better inform clinical decision-making in a mechanistic way makes you unique, and I don't mean that in a way to denigrate our colleagues. But it's too easy, I think, once progressing through medical school and residency, for us professionally as doctors to simply follow clinical guidelines, follow mechanistic flow paths of patient care and not actually think deeper about the root causes of our patients' illnesses. So I want to congratulate you off the bat for actually making that attempt at a better understanding what is actually going on.
Speaker 2:It's definitely an attempt. I mean, these labs that we use. They measure levels, but I think the fields measure life a little bit and I think that you've got to get a different lens. And I always try to talk about bifocalness, and even when I'm talking to patients, I understand that you know patients. Translating this information to patients is the most important thing. It's not you and I talking, max, because you know all this stuff already and it's pretty redundant, probably in a lot of ways. But if you can translate, if you can figure out a way to simplify it and translate it to patients, it's just that's how you effectively change behavior, that's how effectively you cure or fix disease processes.
Speaker 1:In my opinion, yeah, and let's drill into it, let's explain these concepts, what you're thinking about, so that perhaps colleagues who are listening can adopt at least some of these ideas. And you mentioned the lock and key. And, for anyone who's listened to my series with the Guy Foundation researchers, their forays into quantum biology research were prompted by this idea that the lock and key biochemistry mechanisms are inadequate to describe what is actually going on in the body.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean the locking. I think the locking key is obviously necessary. I think you look at the, look at smell, right, I think was it Turin or something they were talking about. The locking key is there. But what if it's a different isotope of hydrogen? It changes the signal once that locking key have actually kind of connected, right. So so I mean, when we have, you know, uh, when we have, a photon that hits the skin, what does that photon do? It actually stimulates a molecule whatever molecule is actually absorbing that particular wavelength and then it creates a field kind of generation, through either mitochondria, upes, or through decoupling of into mitochondria. So it's about these fields that are created, whether they're magnetic, whether they're light, all of these fields together that are communicating what the state of the organism is and what the state of the cell is.
Speaker 1:And I think that's kind of what I think of it as and to clarify that acronym that you just used UP for the listeners, is an ultra-weak photon emission, and maybe unpack this, because, again, we've been delving into this for a while, but for most clinicians they will have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Well, the idea is that our system, our organism as a mammal, really absorbs and releases certain frequencies right, certain frequencies of light and some of these stronger frequencies, especially a UV, blue light, sort of um and violet, those sorts of things. We've got somewhat of a Faraday cage right that we protect the system interiorly to probably have that differential gradient right. When we talk about life and when we talk about energy, it's kind of about these gradients. It's about high temperature, low temperature, it's about high potential, low potential. It's about high voltage or hyperpolarization and depolarization.
Speaker 2:So the body is actually creating kind of a safe spot in the middle, but these higher energy photons are coming in and then it's up to the molecule or the element to absorb that and then it sends a different signal back, oftentimes in a UPE sort of way, to subtly, subtly release a field locally, which then has reverberating effects and sometimes abscopal effects right, locally, which then has reverberating effects and sometimes abscopal effects.
Speaker 2:Right, if you shine a near-infrared light on the back, you get a low decrease in glucose as well as you get visual improvement. So it's just about. It's really about using the energy on the outside and to stimulate more fields on the inside, and those fields are oftentimes stimulated by or in the form of UPEs, which are generated typically from what we know right now, we think they're generated from mitochondria, right from the reactive oxygen species, reactive nitrogen species, but we're also starting to see the decoupling of the mitochondria producing a field too, and all those sorts of things are signaling mechanisms not only to the local cells around but also to the nucleus in the nuclear DNA. So it's this exterior signaling that's then being changed to an interior controlled kind of environment, so that you can get the right information at the right places, a la Picard and Merugin's resistance principles, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's fascinating stuff and I'd refer people, if this has been too much too quickly, to listen to my earlier podcast with particularly the first podcast with Dr Jack Cruz, where he talks about the story of human health and contrasting or presenting this idea of light being reliant on or using both external light, ie solar photons, and then using light, but internally generated light, which are these ultra-weak biophotons internally to, I guess, coordinate whatever's going on inside the cell. So I guess the question that I think is relevant is how do these ideas help inform your thoughts about disease and when the cell is working compared to when the cell is potentially not working?
Speaker 2:It depends on the disease process, right. And so if you're talking about, say, a diabetic, for instance, with high glucose, right, diabetics typically have elevated glucose in their bloodstream. The idea currently is that you know our insulin isn't working appropriately or you're not on the right medications. But if you take a look from a quantum biology standpoint or a field biology standpoint, what you're looking at is the signaling on the inside, especially from near infrared, which they're starting to look at. Is the near infrared are stimulating that mitochondrial functioning, or the ATPase, to spin fast enough that it pulls more glucose from the bloodstream to actually decrease on these patients' glucose levels. And so in a case like that, that's great.
Speaker 2:Now, if you have a case like cancer, this is, you know, I don't want to be provocative, but in a case like cancer it's a different sort of story. It's a different mechanism of how the electron transport chain moves electrons. Is it going reverse, is it going forward? Is it a Warburg, is it not?
Speaker 2:And I think, if you talk about a field within there, there was an interesting article I don't know if you read it very recently and they talked about how the mitochondria, which is our energy producers, right, amongst other things, that when you have a cancerous cell, that when that cell detects that the mitochondria automatically go around the nucleus. I don't know, did you see that article which is very interesting? And the point of the article they suggested was is because the cell needs to replicate so frequently that the mitochondria that were there to actually give it ATP because of the energy requirement. But what I was wondering about is I'm thinking more it's almost like a field buffering system where you're getting that energy that's being broken down by the DNA strands that are being broken at the hydrogen bonding and that's releasing energy and the mitochondria functioning is to absorb that and then to kind of resist where it needs to be resist and then transmutate it to cells locally or to organelles within the cell. Does that kind of make sense?
Speaker 1:That's fascinating and I think it invites a bit of discussion about how the research in the science exists that mitochondrial dysfunction or you can call it mitochondrial maladaption potentially if you're being really pedantic is at the root of why these healthcare systems yours in the US, ours in Australia are essentially headed towards bankruptcy, because mitochondrial dysfunction manifesting in a different organ, depending on people's genetic factors and these exact lifestyle behaviors, is crashing these organ systems and leading to all these hospitalizations. So talk about mitochondria a bit more.
Speaker 2:Well, as I think all of your viewers know, mitochondria. We didn't used to have mitochondria within our system, but they become our slaves. I think it was Stephanie Seneff, her theory of where we pulled in mitochondria to kind of do our work. And I think what's happened? Uh, in my opinion, when it comes to mitochondria, uh, the talk has always been the powerhouse of the cell.
Speaker 2:But honestly, every single month that I practice medicine I read a new article that says you know, the mitochondria may not just be the powerhouses, guess what? They're also the signalers, they're also the controllers, they're also the resistant organelles, they're also the transmutation organelles and now, even more, they're the protection of the cell. And I think that's what is really interesting and how this is evolving so much. I think I had a talk with one of my colleagues about eight, nine years ago and he was like you think everything is mitochondria. I'm like, because it is. They may not know it yet, but we're going to get to the conclusion in medicine that, yes, it's probably a mitochondrial dysfunction. And if you look at Doug Walls' work right, most disease processes, the assumption and it's probably a very valid assumption is mitochondrial-based.
Speaker 1:Besides the nuclear genetic diseases, the true nuclear genetic disease, yeah, I think it was a lynn margulis, carl sagan's uh partner yes, yes, yes sorry, came up with a theory of endosymbiosis but, uh, yeah, the the, this idea that our health as an individual or human is reliant on this colony of ancient bacteria what they were originally cyanobacteria that have become everyone's roommates in our cells. I mean it's incredible, but I think useful. It's useful to think, and that's how I think, about health and longevity and disease is what's going to be good for us long-term, has to be good for our mitochondrial function and everything that we should be doing needs to essentially tend those mitochondria. The interesting point you raised about biophotons and mitochondria again I was speaking with Professor Jeffrey Guy at the Guy Foundation and he was really speaking about the mitochondria, photon emissions as being essentially the controller and how the mitochondria are actually directing these.
Speaker 1:It's not just random splashes of light here, there and everywhere, it's really directed in a very intentional way. And that got me thinking that this bio-photon story is not only one of inter-cell communication but also intra-cell communication. So the photons are helping coordinate what's going on between the nucleus, the mitochondria inside the cell, but then beyond that, at the scale above that, that cell is then using that light to help coordinate with its cells in the local field and say, coordinate mitosis, which was Gerwich's work back in the 1920s.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I completely agree. And I mean we haven't even talked about, you know, phonetic kind of the sound waves that some of these create and some of the reverberations, the physical kind of reverberations that the mitochondria, that the field that comes off the mitochondria are actually producing. And I think, yeah, I mean, and then we oftentimes I feel like we overlook just the decoupling mechanism of the mitochondria, the NIR that comes off of that, the infrared that comes off of that. That's a signal in of itself, especially definitely locally. And so I think, yeah, you hit the nail on the head about that and I think the science is so new on that. But you know, glenn Jeffery's work is fantastic and the Guy Foundation is amazing. So, yeah, I completely agree.
Speaker 1:Let's talk. I don't know if you have any thoughts about different ancestral origins, perhaps different mitochondrial haplogroups, and how that affects disease susceptibility. And the reason why I think it's relevant for you in the US and even here in Australia, even in the UK, is that we have essentially and I don't mean this in any form of racist way, but we've got ethnic explants, we've got people who have a lot of melanin, whose ancestors evolved at the equator, who are living at high latitude, and in Australia we have lots of people who are adapted their ancestors adapted to high latitude and now living in high UV areas. And we've also, on an epidemiological level, have a health disparity between those people of darker Fitzpatrick skin types more melanin compared to the people of lighter colors, and it's been my hypothesis that I think a large degree of this health gap or health disparity can be explained by these people's solar light needs not being met and the fact that they have such larger light and environmental signaling needs. So do you have any thoughts on that topic?
Speaker 2:light and environmental signaling needs. So do you have any thoughts on that topic? Sure, I mean, I think you know you look at things like MS, you look at all these disease processes that are latitude-based right, and I think we all have these genes in us that whether can we awaken these genes? And I think that's where hormesis kind of comes in, that's where these differentials as far as temperature, as far as energy, cold thermogenesis is really good about awakening these genetic kind of things that we've had that have been asleep for so long.
Speaker 2:Me being Norwegian and German, I've got them in my system, but I can tell you, the first 40 years of my life I really didn't utilize them at all. So now you know, with the ability that we have to awaken these, if we use the photonic energy appropriately, then I think it's really earth shattering what we can do, what I've seen in practice, especially from, say, patients of darker complexion or of African descent. We've seen such an increase in, say, autoimmune disease, such an increase in prostate cancer. And yes, I think the pigment plays a role. If I get enough solar exposure in a safe way, with the right ratio of UV to NIR, then what happens is I will increase my pigmentation through palm C and through, you know, melanin regeneration. But if you already have a patient that has so much melanin on the surface of the skin and that you're asking that patient to actually, when they spend 93% of their time indoors, to actually utilize the energy, the limited energy that they get outside, with all the resistance that melanin is doing on the outside, it doesn't allow for the proper signaling on the inside and I think it's almost like it's almost a function of so much armor to the point where you just can't get the signal.
Speaker 2:And I think we have to realize that it's a challenge, because I've seen, you know, multiple. You know some of my first patients with the pandemic that passed away were of darker complexion and it's unfortunate that we have that and we haven't. In medicine we try to treat all these patients the same and we have to start, we have to take a step back and say they're not, their field is different, their biology is different, their melanin is different and that dictates what the internal disease process does and dictates what the internal health is. And so, yes, I agree, there's such a disparity. We have a higher population of patients of Mexican descent or Spanish descent, so those also have an increased pigmentation. So we're seeing those patients have higher diabetes, higher obesity, and that's all coming from the way that our skin, the way that our eyes and the way that our brain is actually getting these signals on the outside, transmutating them to the inside and informing all the cells to kind of do what they're supposed to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd like to riff on this because metabolic disease is so prevalent and really the way it's talked about in some circles, I think, is incomplete. I think it is simply, it is a flavor of mitochondrial dysfunction and, yes, we can frame it in the way of metabolic syndrome. Insulin resistance sure, absolutely. But I think if we're drilling all the way down and being as accurate as possible, then it is disruption of this coherence that you're describing, Brian, and it is mitochondrial dysfunction. And in what you just said, I'm reminded of the subcontinent. I mean the subcontinent. However, 1.3 billion people. They have enormous amounts of metabolic disease and they also have habits and social norms that involve essentially wearing long-sleeve clothing. A lot of them work in tech and, yes, they're eating a very nutrient-poor diet. But let's talk a little bit more about how these people particularly seem to be at most susceptible, or even more susceptible, to metabolic disease and its complications.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you said subcontinent.
Speaker 1:India, pakistan, bangladesh, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, we don't have as many I don't see as many patients out here in the West Coast of the US with that but it is kind of interesting that if you look at the amount of diabetes that's kind of popping up in the world, one of the highest percentages is in the Middle East. And you can make, you can have theories and hypotheses. As far as it does have to do with EMF, which probably plays a role, we just can't really, you know, we can't really tie those things together. I think the fact is that a lot of these patients, from a genetic standpoint, their system is based on a certain one thing is they're based on a certain lighting structure, but they're also based on a certain temperature structure. So now you've moved them to a different location and now that their system it's about mitochondrial adaption, it's about epigenetics, right, and it's not a function that our mitochondria won't be able to adapt if we move from the Middle East to the USS or Middle East to Australia. It's a function that we're not going to be alive long enough to make that adaptation. And in the current technology environment, because it's moving so fast, which is another reason probably why in the Middle East we're getting a lot more of these skinny diabetics. I think the technology is moving so fast that it just doesn't give our system time to adapt.
Speaker 2:And unfortunately, when it comes to our medicine that we subscribe and prescribe is, we have the innate ability to treat these acute kind of disease processes right. We've heard this a million times, you've talked about it as well. But the challenge that we have is we look at this patient and we look at the disease process they have. We treat them acutely to try to fix that acute problem, but we don't take a look at the field environment that they're in, take them out of that or adjust that field environment to ultimately make them better. You know, we just destroy cells through whatever chemotherapy or whatever and we just hope that their current environment that actually got them sick in the first place then figures out in a quick enough fashion so that they don't get that disease process again.
Speaker 2:And for me that's what's confusing, especially when we talk about patients that have transferred from Africa, that have moved from whatever other country and have a different genetic profile. I think we have to take that into account. But it's difficult, I think us as doctors, I think we're just. The system is set up in a way where the more patients you see, the better off you are.
Speaker 2:And I think if we're not allotted the kind of long-form discussions which we need to have, then all we're going to be able to do is prescribe, and because it's turning into a prescription subscriptions kind of society and is reading headlines and that's it, I think it's up to us as doctors to kind of stop and to hold these patients and just say, hey, this is the cause, this is the disease process. We've got to adjust the environment based on your genetics and based on your ability to deal with the current environment. We've got to do that first and then we can prescribe things and then, hopefully, these medications, these prescriptions that we've got are bridge therapies from unhealthy to healthy. Because if we can do that bridge these patients but also change their environment better, lighting better, you know, more hormetic kind of stress then that's where these disease process can improve, especially from patients that have transferred from one location in the world to another.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And I'm going to offer some thoughts on diabetes because I think my perspective on it has changed a lot since when I first started this podcast two years ago. And in terms of inappropriate prescribing or failing to see the root cause, I think insulin for a type 2 diabetic or a gestational diabetic has to be up there with the most myopic of mechanistic treatment goals and this idea that someone who is so resistant to insulin and therefore hypoglycemic should be just treated with higher doses of insulin. Again, they're not insulin deficient, they're insulin resistant.
Speaker 1:But the points you make and I really like that you brought up the Middle East, because that's something that Glenn and Glenn Jeffrey and Bob Fosbury have been talking a lot about which is this idea that you have a group of people, a race, that were used to or adapted to very high UV environments in the Gulf of Arabia and suddenly they're indoors in these hermetically sealed chambers with this IR blocking glass and they're guzzling down sugar sweetened beverages with high fructose corn syrup and I mean they are getting extremely diabetic. But this idea that simply being outside is like a tonic anti-diabogenetic stimulus, I think that's game-changing, because then when you realize that when you're simply being outside, you're spinning that ATPase and sucking glucose out of the system. It really doesn't become a problem of too much processed food. It becomes an absence of daylight, which the processed food is simply exacerbating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I completely, completely agree. I think the challenge that we have in medicine is sometimes things are so easy that they don't seem like that they could be accurate. You know, and if you bring up that with patients, they tend to pause and they say, dr Graham, no, I would rather a prescription that doesn't. I've never heard that before and I think, yeah, I think, if we can start doing that more especially from a timing circadian perspective, start doing that more especially from a timing circadian perspective, right, and I think, like out here in California, when I bring up this topic about getting outside more, and I try to talk a little bit about ratios, about the NIR versus UV ratio, which plays a big role, their first thought is okay, sun means go out at 1pm in the afternoon, lay out on a chair and get fried, and I tell them, no, no, no, it's about getting out in the morning time, getting under shade. You'll get some of the best NIR light there underneath the shade and you'll also get, you know, nonlinear photo effects of the UV that pops out early, as well as the blue that you really need on a daily basis. So, yeah, I think it's almost too for my patients, it's almost too easy. But you have to find their on-ramp right and I think that's why you have to put it in so many different ways and I think, in time and pretty soon.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking especially with some of these transdermal sort of testers where now we can see these patients that have increasing glucose just by being under a fluorescent light. I have one of my colleagues who's got one of those and we can see the glucose just rise based on being in a different light environment, and then if I switch them and I put them under, say, a Neuralight or something like that, then it kind of stabilizes. So it's really kind of interesting. It's interesting and it's amazing and it is important to really start to get these people out more, because all we're doing now is we're spending more and more time inside and less and less time outside, and the effects that it has on the system is amazing. Even if it's just retinal effects right, the retinal effects will stimulate a systemic effect just downstream.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so interesting and it's so timely. And you see, colleagues who are in the system of an indoor work environment probably circadian disrupted home environment, with tech, with tech use and blue light, and you can just see that and you know they're never going to lose any weight. They're overweight, they're obese, it doesn't matter how how many um. You know calories, they count. You know, even if they go on these glp-1 agonist injectable medications, you know that if they don't change their daily habit of sitting in ice in a windowless room under fluorescent bulbs, that that weight's just going to pile right back on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think it's a definite field problem internally, right, where these patients their sugars. All of a sudden it's 115 on an Ozempic. But how do they feel inside? Typically they feel awful. The patients I'm seeing on medications like that typically have nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain a lot of times bowel obstructions, ileus, things like that. So, yeah, I mean, I think we're trying to figure this out from a pharmaceutical lens but we're not focusing on the most important thing and what kind of effects internally and how you feel. And I think we should flip the script a little bit, right? So, max and I see patients, and we see patients and they come and they say, doc, I don't feel well. And you do all these labs, you do all these x-rays and these CTs and whatever, and everything's fine. And I go back to them I'm saying, well, from what we can see, everything looks great. And they say, doc, why don't I feel well? That not feeling well, that's the field differential inside. That's why patients don't feel well, because the field has been changed.
Speaker 2:If you give insulin to a type two diabetic, what are you doing? You're changing the field. You're changing the field to a storage field, to a storage signal environment. How are they ever going to get better? They're ultimately not, I think, and I think some of us docs. We just keep our fingers crossed and hopefully they you know, eat less and exercise more and hopefully they'll magically get better. One of the one of the most amazing things that I talked to my colleagues about, I think, when you talk about you know, blue light and signaling and what's the proper sort of functioning or what's the proper photonic field we should be in, is one of the things I don't hear too many people talk about, and you may know this, max, is what's the most focal point in the eye as far as your visual field, what is it? You remember what this?
Speaker 1:is the fovea, right.
Speaker 2:But what's even more focal and more concentrated than the fovea Dermacula, the foveola right, okay, the foveola. And so what cells, what photoreceptors are in the foveola? So we have, typically cones right. So you have a high amount of cones. You have S cones, m cones and L cones right. So which ones are those cones? And if you separate those for your listeners, s cones are typically shorter, wave cones like blue light, violet light, m cones are the middle ones, green things like that. L cones are the longer ones. M cones are the middle ones, green things like that. L cones are the longer ones. So the ones that we're missing in the foveola are these short cones.
Speaker 2:So what does that tell you? It tells you that the foveola, the highest point of focus within a retinal field, is not supposed to have as the main actor a blue light source. And if you look in the environment, if you look at evolutionary, wise, look at the world, do we ever see anything that's blue, just blue, that signals that foveola? No, but now we're just bombarding these photoreceptors, especially within the foveola, with these blue images, and our body and our mitochondria are trying to kind of compensate, and that's the reason why we have so much visual issues. That's the reason why we have so much retinal detachments, macular degeneration, because we just can't keep up with the amount of regeneration that's required because of the activation of a wavelength that we're not supposed to have. We're supposed to see a blue ocean with colors inside. We're supposed to see a blue sky with colors inside. We're supposed to see a blue sky, but we're supposed to use that as the backdrop and it's not the main actor. It's supposed to always be the backdrop.
Speaker 1:That's fascinating and I'm immediately reminded of the curve of spectral sensitivity which human vision is optimized over, and it peaks at green light, and Alexander Wunsch, who's one of the world's leading photobiologists, made the point that this is likely to coincide with an arboreal evolutionary niche where we were in treetops, within the canopy and everything is green. So what you just said with respect to blue sensitivity and central vision kind of makes sense in that light. That's fascinating. I had no idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and look at green too. I think what they're looking at green now, even though it's kind of a mono wavelength, they're looking at green to kind of calm the system down, right. They're using it sometimes with migraines now and there's some really interesting new articles about that. I know I think Thomas Seeger actually is making a green light for that. But even just wearing green glasses can improve migraines on patients in certain studies, which is interesting. And so, yeah, if you look at like inside the body, look at, look at, look at bilirubin.
Speaker 2:We know about bilirubin, right, we know what what light absorbs, or what bilirubin, what light absorbs bilirubin. But we also know, but what's the precursor to bilirubin? Biliverdin, right, and biliverdin is green, right, and actually you can. There was a there's another article that I'm going to release here shortly where the precursor to bilirubin, which is a breakdown product of hemoglobin, right, the precursor is biliverdin. If you can increase the amount of biliverdin, then that actually absorbs a special frequency of light, near infrared, and it releases green to stimulate a reduction in glucose. They got a 60% reduction by just improving or increasing the biliverdin content.
Speaker 2:So these sort of little gold nuggets, I like to call them, or these little Easter egg hunts that we go on, these sort of things are really telling you. It's about the light environment and it's about what that light environment and that magnetic environment within the system, what kind of fields that creates and signals the local cells and the systemic kind of effects well, I mean, it's so, it's so interesting in it and it we are just discovering these little easter eggs, as you say.
Speaker 1:But they, yeah, they all make sense in the in the lens of evolution, of biology and and this evolved metabolic envelope that we were occupying for the kind of duration of our time on on, uh, on planet earth, the, the, the interesting, also interesting thing that, uh, uh, I wanted you to potentially shed some light on some more uh was with respect to, um, with respect to those, that that the visual phenomenon that you just described so expand a little bit more on, with respect to those, the blue vision, and how people are specifically managing to shortcut this process because obviously, comparatively, there's no, nowhere near as much blue ancestrally as we are now. How are people presenting that blue to themselves every day?
Speaker 2:Well, how are they presenting it without understanding the downside?
Speaker 1:Implications yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, certainly. I mean they're doing what you and I talk to patients about all the time. They're on these screens. They're on the screens and then on a daily basis and unfortunately, even when they go outside they're on their screen and now you're getting a polarization of of a particular light that really signals those photoreceptors. So they're doing what, what we tell people not to do and what we're currently kind of on, unfortunately, but it's it.
Speaker 2:The challenge is is that if we, if we bastardize, say, blue, then we're missing out on the positive things of blue. And I think what our retinas are doing right now and the reason why our retinas and the orbit or the eyeball itself is getting longer, it's trying to adjust, it's trying to compensate. Nature knows what to do and our body's trying to adjust. It's trying to compensate. Nature knows what to do and our body knows what to do. But these compensatory mechanisms unfortunately create disease processes such as retinal detachment, such as macular degeneration. So what these people are doing almost are doing the wrong thing and I think that if they were to just utilize light a little bit better, get outside, especially in the morning Glenn Jeffries' work is really interesting in that respect and they talk about red light effects.
Speaker 2:Right, they talk about near infrared light effects, and one of the things they always seem to talk about is they say the morning time has a certain stimulus, but it doesn't have the same effect in the afternoon, and so it's almost like the priming and the stimulation of the ATPase to spin is what we need in the morning, and then we need, from a circadian standpoint, a movement of energy use and energy production to change, and that's based on the activation of UV, because it's a stronger signal.
Speaker 2:So it's all about it is all about timing. Just like you know, circadian ketosis is about timing. It's not about the foods as much as it is about timing. So, yeah, I think we've got to educate the patients better and I think the current environment that they're in, we've got to make adjustments. You've got a red light currently on, which is fantastic, but, you know, is it multiple wavelengths or is it, you know, one or two? I think it's great where patients are kind of focusing on that, but I do think we have to kind of, you know, get outside, get external. I think it would be very beneficial.
Speaker 1:Yeah, A couple of points that you just raised there. It's fascinating to me that the ambient solar conditions for the day kind of symmetrically reverse themselves from morning to afternoon depending on, you know, atmospheric conditions or potential atmospheric contaminations that can change the scatter of light. But this idea that the body is going to respond differently to those light wavelengths because of the sequence in which they've been received by the body I mean, that's exactly what Glenn Jeffries' work showed, and if you hear him describe or talk about his discovery, it was a whole bunch of researchers getting together in a room investigating this red light effects on cells and finding discrepant results. And then finally someone who was thinking out of the box asked put to the group okay, what time are you guys doing your experiments?
Speaker 1:yeah and they realized that the people who were doing the morning experiments were finding a great result and the ones that were doing the afternoon were getting peanuts. So, uh, again, extremely elegant and how time dependent and um that that this whole whole process is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's just another. It's just another layer that we have to go through as far as doctors go and, and we have to stop looking at these superficial layers. As far as treatment protocols, we're going to have to look at what is the feedback loop of this and at what time. Like they have studies that date, you know, a decade ago, and they looked at blood pressure control. Like they have studies that date, you know, a decade ago and they looked at blood pressure control and they looked at typical blood pressure medications I think it were ACE inhibitors and the patients did so much better I think this study was in Spain they did so much better from a blood pressure standpoint, from a cardiovascular standpoint, if they took the medications at night versus took them in the morning.
Speaker 2:And there's tons of studies as far as chemotherapy timing and things like that. So I mean it's we all know that there's clock genes within every cell. We all know that. So, but it's there's so much resistance to taking that as part of. You know, could you theoretically, in a differential on patients, could you put circadian disruption on almost every patient? You could, you really could get an ICD code and put circadian disruption. So I think, and that would probably be the answer to everything circadian disruption and maybe mitochondrial dysfunction. And there you go, you've got disease processes in America, processes in America.
Speaker 2:But yeah, timing it's so important and that's why you know, you, what you tell patients, what I tell patients getting out in the morning, clear that mitochondrial process.
Speaker 2:Let's spin the ATPase, let's clear out the ROS and the RNS and to have them signal at the right time. That's the time that they signal in the morning and they send out a certain at the right time. That's the time that they signal in the morning and they send out a certain pulsed, rhythmic signal at that time than they do at, say, 1 or 2 pm. And that's based on the amount of energy that's being allowed to come in. And when you get in the afternoon you're talking the melanin that absorbs the UV, that breaks down the water that surrounds the melanin that absorbs the UV and the melanin gets broken down, water is released and energy is released from there to signal the local cells. But it's a different energy process depending on the time. It's like a boat moving in one direction. Right, you can't turn it all at one time, but if the boat is expected to make turns at a certain time of day, then it's much easier to control the movement and that's the energy movement and the metabolism system within a human.
Speaker 1:I want you to talk or give me your thoughts on meal timing, because you just discussed what is called chronopharmacology, I think, or whatever that field is called, or chromochemotherapy, which is the timing of medications with respect to the skating rhythm. But there's also the field of chrononutrition and this idea that timing of meals affects materially metabolic health. So shoot on that topic, because I feel like even the section of medicine and doctors who are effectively using dietary therapies to help reverse metabolic disease are themselves not even aware of these benefits of aligning meal timing to the circadian clock.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, they're so stuck on the macros, right, and they're so stuck on the label of this diet or that diet. I think I've been through the gamut. I feel like you know, I did Atkins, which is basically, you know, ketosis back in the 90s. I had, you know, when I was growing up, I had issues with reactive hypoglycemia, where you eat these foods and your sugar goes up so fast and your body, because it's not under the right environment, actually pulls the sugar down too quickly and you actually become low sugar, you feel kind of dizzy, you start sweating, and so I was always kind of looking for the causes of that. And certainly the types of foods that you eat play a role, but it's the timing that plays even a bigger role. And so right now you know they're talking about ketosis, they're talking about carnivore things like that, yes, it will have a benefit. But if you can just do a circadian ketotic sort of diet, which basically means that you're eating almost whatever food you want to, hopefully local, hopefully organic, ideally regenerative if you do that, but if you stop at a certain time and allow your body to because it runs on a clock to allow your body to move things in the proper direction to have proper field signaling, then you'll get proper storage. I mean, look at fatty liver right, fatty liver is a prime example. I was reading an article yesterday I think it was and it was, I think it was a 2014 article, and they were looking at the timing of eating and triglyceride storage within the liver. And they were looking at the timing of eating and triglyceride storage within the liver and they were looking at mice. So things were flipped right. They're having where mice could eat whatever they want, whenever they wanted, or they could eat just at night, which for us is daytime, right and they found out that there was I believe it was a 60% decrease in triglyceride storage within the liver on the mice that ate at the proper time. So that's just by doing it. And this was what 10, 11 years ago.
Speaker 2:And what's the current treatment for fatty liver? Eat right, exercise more and down the pipe, there's some pharmaceutical treatment that's coming in, but that's not going to treat it. I mean, I've had patients where we've just talked about this, we've talked about okay, you just have to go out early in the morning, you have to just eat, or go out early in the morning, eat whatever food that you're comfortable eating, hopefully in a healthy way, and then stop eating 5, 6 pm and those patients actually got so much better. Their fatty liver went away on the next ultrasound and that was without medications. Obviously, we're not treating patients on this podcast. I'm just saying these are things that we have to take into account because they have such a dramatic effect and I think us in the medical profession we just have to stop resisting this and we have to accept that some of these things we weren't taught in medical school. And it's OK. I'm the first one to say I'm not the smartest person in the room, I'm not trying to be. I'm open to say Max, you got an idea. You tell me the idea. That sounds great, let's apply it. Even in an end of one situation, let's try it out. And I think us, with our doctors, I think we've got to slowly kind of move them in this direction and that's why I think Roger is doing a great job in there where he's actually showing you know what, if we move these ICU patients and get a little light at the proper time, then they're actually getting better, they're feeling better.
Speaker 2:One patient that comes to mind that I had, and it brings a kind of a tear to my eye and I remember it's this older guy he was probably in his 80s or 90s in a wheelchair and I think his daughter brought him in and we were talking about this, specifically this. The guy's white as a ghost. He had some underlying autoimmune issues as well and we talked about getting outside and he looked up at his daughter and he said I just want to go outside. Why can't I go outside? And it makes me remember the article about these nursing home patients right where they spend on average 15 minutes outside every month. And I think we're just we're kind of disconnected from this and I think we've got to reconnect. And once again, I keep giving you applause You're doing a great job. And I think we've got to reconnect. And once again, I keep giving you applause You're doing a great job and I think we need to continue doing this and pointing out these things to patients, but also, providers?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and thank you. Thank you, brian. I mean it's just so simple. It's just so incredibly simple that eating your meal outside after seeing the sunrise I mean, how simple is that advice? Yet you know, 99% of people aren't doing it and the ability to clear out that fatty liver, clear out the hepatosteatosis, without even changing the food composition. And that is exactly what the study that I'm thinking of with this coronal nutrition study with type 2 diabetics. They didn't change the control, they didn't change the content of the diet in the intervention group, they just changed the timing of the food and that was enough to see benefits in type 2 diabetes.
Speaker 2:Well, I think one thing it does and we don't talk about enough is getting to that fasted state right. So, even with the carnivore, even with carnivore and I'm not against that, I'm happy to kind of treat patients like that too. I've gotten patients better with vegan diets. I've gotten better with plant-based diets, I've gotten better with ketosis diets all of them. It depends on timing. But the interesting thing, when I talk to patients about that, we talk about the timing, especially of high-protein or high-fat meals.
Speaker 2:At what point, if you eat those meals, say 4, 5, 6 pm at night, at what point are you going to get into the fasted state?
Speaker 2:It's dictated by how fast the GI system works right and how fast the microbiome within that GI system breaks that stuff down. And so sometimes eating, say, a higher protein even though if you're a carnivore, eating a higher protein at 6 pm may not be a great idea, because you're not getting into a fasted state until maybe 4 or 5 am in the morning. And then what's that signaling? The signaling mechanism that we have on our skin, on our eyes and our brain. Also, the microbiome has a signaling timing too, and those things like to sleep as well, and they're the ones that are actually shooting that film on the wall of the intestinal lining and telling that intestinal lining through the neuropods and the enteroendocrine cells. What signal? When do I stimulate the vagus, when do I not? When do I stimulate this cell, when do I not? So they're the ones in control there and I think we have to give them time as well yeah, it's, uh, again it's.
Speaker 1:It's this idea of timing and how critical the, the timing of the body's processes, um, how that, how important that is to to health. And again it's like this missing dimension of health and wellness. I mean, how many books have been written about diet, about exercise and about supplementation? You know the list is on and on. But the number of practitioners who are advising on circadian appropriate activity, food consumption, light exposure, it's just so diminishingly small. Yet if you look back through history and religious traditions, they nailed that I mean the traditional Chinese medicine, hinduism, they all had this down pat because they'd, I guess through a process of cultural evolution, arrived at that as most compatible with health of cultural evolution arrived at that is most compatible with health.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, we just have to get back there and I think we have to, you know, put the prescription pad to the side a bit and take a little bit more time to explain the nuances of this and the simplicity of this and really kind of connect with the patients. The way I think we have lost, and I think, medicine, I feel like forgot about light, and I think that's why the toolbox is so dim when you open that up right and I think if we bring that back to them, like we used to do before pharmaceuticals, I think that it doesn't mean we get rid of pharmaceuticals.
Speaker 2:Pharmaceuticals have done fantastic jobs in keeping some of my patients alive and keeping them maybe not healthy, but still going, surviving, surviving, surviving, and I think we just have to. You know, we've got to recalculate and reset, and I think that's what I try to do on a daily basis and I, you know, and the way you do that is learning right, and the patients have to learn too, and I think, and that's about time, and one thing that you know, I think Dr Jack Cruz talks a lot about, is about how valuable time is, and you and I know that, but I don't think sometimes we realize when we're talking to patients that they don't know that right, and I think to give them back some time and that requires us giving them our time, I think, is so valuable and so necessary as we move forward.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well. Maybe, brian, you could share with us some of your I guess interpretations using this field biology, using this lens that you've cultivated, what are some biomarkers that you look at when you're assessing patients' health? How would you interpret them and how do you tie that into the lifestyle advice that you give?
Speaker 2:Well, a lot of times what we'll do is we'll look at ratios, like we talk about, right? We look at albumin, we look at MCV. Albumin is an interesting one because, you know, every protein in the system has a hydration shell right, and that hydration shell is ultimately dictated by oftentimes near infrared or stimulation of that hydration cell to see how thick or how thin it is. It doesn't just play a role in the folding of proteins, it also plays a role in how those proteins move through the system, you know. So I like to look at albumin to creatinine ratios. I like to look at MCV scores. You know we look at MCV, which is a part of what we call a CBC panel, a hemoglobin, hematocrit, mcv and you and I will look at MCVs, or my colleagues will look at MCVs and say this is a B12 or folate deficiency or an alcohol. But what I see with an increased size in MCV, which is basically saying that the red blood cell is increasing in size, it's because of the structured water within the inside is collapsing. The easy water is collapsing. It's not able to control the energy from there, so it's actually getting larger, almost kind of like, I think, what Jack Cruz talked about maybe a decade ago. You know what gets larger. He may have even quizzed you on that. When the heart goes bad, does it get larger or does it get smaller? When an ankle gets injured, does it get larger or get smaller? So I think I like to use things like that. I won't get into too much specifics, but I like to use things like that because it's something that we don't pay attention to. But there's a lot of golden nuggets in those laboratories that you have already gotten right From a patient perspective. You have pages and pages of CBCs, chemistries, troponins, urine tests, tshs, without going to the functional labs that cost so much. But you can really parse out a lot of disease processes just by looking at ratios of these different categories, and that's what I like to do.
Speaker 2:I look at that. I like to look at the EKG. I like to look at the EKG. I like to look at the amplitude on the EKG, because remember that if you look at, you know that's a function of all these mitochondrial Christie's all getting aligned in super complexes and signaling, having a field signal when they get together. And now we know that the mitochondrials, they actually fuse, don't they? When they actually fuse, and they actually can produce a stronger field signal, depending on what organ system you're talking about, whether it's heart, brain, whatever. So that's what I like to do. I like to look at, because that's what I come across. I come across EKGs and labs. That's what I see most often. So there's a lot of interesting things in those and I think we just have to focus on those a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fascinating. I mean there's so many ways. The interpretation is everything. Anyone can order a test, but the way it's interpreted and the advice given from that is absolutely everything. And I think the strategy or one of the core tenets of this decentralized medicine movement is really helping people to identify through, again, not necessarily ridiculously expensive and obscure or esoteric markers how they're going wrong and what could potentially be fixed. A question about cardiovascular disease. How do you think about cardiovascular disease? Obviously it is up there with still the leading cause of death in our society. How do you think about that with respect to this, with your framework and, potentially, prevention of cardiovascular disease?
Speaker 2:Well, I think it depends on which cardiovascular disease you're talking about. Are you talking about?
Speaker 1:CHF, atherosclerotic CHF or Atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease.
Speaker 2:So, basically, the go-to question is what do you think about cholesterol? What do you think about high cholesterol medications? So cholesterol is a molecule that absorbs light, right? And I think the cholesterol has so many different functions besides just the membranes within cells, besides pre-hormones, cholesterol plays such an important role that I think that we're looking at cholesterol a little bit wrong and I think when we see these high cholesterols, it may not be a signal to say, hey, we're eating too much fat, too much cholesterol. It may be a signal to say, hey, we're eating too much fat, too much cholesterol. It may be a signal of the body saying they're trying to compensate. They're saying we need more cholesterol because we need to produce more hormones, we need to produce more healthy membranes so that we can have proper membrane protection and proper membrane voltage. And I think to me, it almost kind of pulls me into the whole neurodegeneration discussion. Right, we talk about these plaques that are forming and they had these great ideas hey, if we get rid of these plaques, alzheimer's will go away. If we get rid of these plaques, parkinson's will go away. But what they found was it was the plaques that were trying to help the situation, not hurt the situation.
Speaker 2:It doesn't mean that cholesterol-lowering medications are wrong. It just means that we have to look from a field perspective and saying what is the feedback loop that we're and what is the circuit? What is the circuit that we've got within the system? If we see elevated cholesterol, we have to look at the other parts of the system to say is our system creating enough of the right hormones? Is our system creating enough of the membranes? Is our system producing enough of the things that our body needs? Or is that a signal for our body to say, hey, we need more of that? You know, like vitamin D is a big example, right? So elevated cholesterol, vitamin D is low. This is not a surprise. The body is trying to say, okay, I need a little bit more UV stimulation. Let's make more cholesterol available so that we can potentially do that. To me, that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, it's. The more, I think, we go along, the more perspectives there are on this problem of cardiovascular disease prevention. And you have perspectives in conventional medicine, which seems to be ever more obsessed with lipid lowering in every way, shape and form, and pharmaceutically induced. Then you have plant-based dietary approaches of using different foods to lower total cholesterol. Then you have the ketogenic or metabolic and low-carb side of things and having this phenomenon of lean mass hyper-response, where we're getting pretty significantly high total cholesterol and ApoB. And then you've got, I think, more of this quantum, biological and circadian perspective, which is we've got charge, these blood components are charged. We've got this exclusion zone, water. And if we're subtracting out the main energy source of our life, which is sunlight, of which is, uh, you know, the majority is in the red and infrared, then what is that doing to the way that these blood components are essentially interacting?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I uh definitely agree. I mean, there was another article that I just read the other day talking about near infrared and they were talking about cancer cells and the way that near infrared actually can in a cancer cell, can stimulate it to become senescent and so it decreases the cancerous property of that particular cell. Just that should be mind-blowing and that should be on every headline in the world. So if that's the case, but we've taken that out of all of our lighting structure and we've blocked it from all of our windows, then I'm not surprised that cancer is one of the things that are on the increase, diabetes as well. So yeah, I completely agree.
Speaker 2:I actually showed that article. I don't know if you saw that article. I showed that article to one of my Hemonc colleagues and they just said, hmm, and that was it, and that told me that I think sometimes we're so set in our dogmas and our silos that it's hard to even get us as doctors to kind of shift from that because it's uncomfortable. And if we would, I think in life in general for patients, for providers, I think there's some room and some necessity to become uncomfortable, whether it's cold, thermogenesis or whether it's fasting. It's that uncomfortableness. That actually kind of gives our system a stress test right, and I think we need more of that in the system.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did read that paper by Rhys Mould and, yeah, selective induction of senescence in cancer cells.
Speaker 1:I mean the implications are that if you put yourself outside, ideally next to a bush or a tree or some other greenery which is reflecting the infrared light, and you allow that light to pass through your body, then you're doing your utmost to help the prevention of the development of cancer.
Speaker 1:But again, we're so far removed from that in medicine and in life in general that I think even just small conversations like these will hopefully kind of change the piece. The point I'll make about my interactions with specialists and obviously lots of them are experts in their field. They do great work, yes, but I would say that sometimes the more subspecialized someone becomes, the more calcified they are in their structure or framework of reality and the more convinced they are that they're correct. And the unfortunate aspect of this, I don't know, maybe because they think that they've already suffered so much study that they can't possibly be wrong. It's like a sunk cost fallacy. But the disadvantage is that you have a whole group of medical specialists who are not in touch with a whole bunch of topics like the ones that we're discussing, which makes someone like you, brian, who's gone through this process and still managed to keep such an open mind. A pretty rare, rare breed of creature.
Speaker 2:Well, I try to be, because I know there's a ton of stuff that I don't know. That, max, you could probably educate me on so many things. But uh, I think the design of the way medicine is, um organized currently is what's stopping some of these subspecialists from opening their minds, because that's where they get paid. They get paid on. I mean, think about from a GI perspective. I love gastroenterology, but they're paid based on procedures and if you think going to a gastroenterologist to get dietary advice probably not a great idea, you know it's probably not hugely beneficial. They tend to look at the GI tract once it's been cleared with the laxative.
Speaker 2:So I think, with these subspecialists, I think whether it's by design or whether it's by happenstance, I do think that we have to give them ribbing with my hemlock specialist and GI specialist and cardiologist and just to kind of get a sense of what they understand about this sort of information. And it's not on their radar yet, but I can feel like they're interested and I think if we can maybe adjust the payment strategy in medicine like you were talking about earlier, I think that might kind of open the door to say you know what, maybe I should do something a little bit different. Maybe it's not all about procedures, stress tests, colonoscopies, egds. Maybe it's about maybe teaching these patients. Maybe that's the way to go, and I'm excited. I'm really excited because I'm seeing a step forward and I think we've got a long ways to go, but I'm just happy to be a part of the conversation honestly, because I love it. I think it's fantastic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is. I am optimistic, I guess. Yeah, when someone's got four private school fees to pay for each of their children, they're going to do the scope. They're not going to ask too many questions. They they're going to do the scope. They're not going to ask too many questions, they're just going to do the colonoscopy, exactly. Maybe is there anything that you wanted to discuss or bring up that you've been really thinking about before we wrap up? If not, I've got maybe one more question for you. If not.
Speaker 2:I've got maybe one more question for you. I'm happy to hear your question. I feel like you know we've kind of went around most of the stuff that I think is very important. I think sometimes, you know, I think it can be too much information. I think we've touched on the appropriate amount.
Speaker 1:Maybe you can again, because you're seeing acutely unwell patients you can offer some thoughts on. You can offer some thoughts on respiratory viral illnesses and we've come off the back of five years of a very trying time and I'm going to use that adjective, and maybe not anymore People can read between the lines, but to me this light story has massive potential for improving the preventing, but also improving the outcome of patients with acute respiratory illnesses. So yeah, maybe you can shoot on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, certainly. I think there's some more and more studies coming out as far as how UV can kill virus. If we're talking about viruses specifically, uv can cut down on viruses. They're using UVC right. They're using at the beginning of 2020, there was some work in the ERs where they're actually using UVC a light that would actually turn slowly and actually would destroy the viruses 99.9% of the viruses within an emergency room and I think so. If you look at that and if you zoom out, then why don't we use UV more often in regular life? So I completely agree.
Speaker 2:I think, from a respiratory virus perspective, especially viral component, you got to get these patients outside because that will help their system cope. Yes, uv by nature calms the immune system down, but it just helps regulate the adaptive and the active kind of immune response. So I think UV is a great thing that we can implement into patients, and that's what Roger is doing by taking patients outside. What this reminds me of, too, is this whole autoimmune stuff that we're seeing and as far as how uv regulates the immune response at the beginning of 2020, what I started noticing is and this is prior to all the literature coming out as I noticed, these patients are actually getting better on this particular viral infection with steroids Steroids, something that calms the immune system down. And it was interesting to me because I looked back even 10 years prior that I was seeing more and more autoimmune issues popping up and at first it was, say, two patients in a day that would potentially get better if you gave them steroids, which is kind of an autoimmune treatment, and then it would go to five and then it would go to half. There's been days where I've seen patients where literally 75% of them, if we gave them a steroid, they would actually get better. So what that tells us is it tells us that our system is so hyper responsive and probably to the fact that we don't come across something that kind of helps regulate the immune response, which is glaringly what you and I know. It's the UV signaling and we've lost that.
Speaker 2:And I think if we do get outside, it will not only benefit viral upper respiratory infection but also benefit autoimmune conditions and we're seeing more and more of those, whether it's rheumatoid, whether it's diabetes, whether it's lupus Sjogren's all these diseases that could be controlled or at least calmed down by UV signaling. I had a patient that had just a typical if you see the lupus flare where they get the butterfly rash right and they went through. I think they saw their primary, they saw the emergency room. They went to see a specialist who prescribed some medications and I talked to her. I'm like, just go outside, go outside in the morning, hit that time where near infrared then turns to UVA, and she did that for a week. Rash went away and she felt better. So that was just one patient who went through the gamut of the US medical system of primary ER specialist prescription subscription and then we talked and then she's better. So that's my two cents on upper respiratory symptoms and autoimmune that can be improved by UV signaling.
Speaker 1:Amazing. I mean to think about the magnitude of time wasted, of value left on the table between the one conversation you had and her previous two months of interaction with the whole healthcare system. When there becomes so much resistance or so much difficulty in solving a problem, then what happens is that there's inevitability about a solution that will arise, especially if it can make a 10x improvement over the status quo, and what you did for that lady was 10x improvement on what advice she'd been given before then, I don't doubt at all. So, yeah, it's great to actually hear stories like that, because it shows how relevant and important and efficacious this advice really is for people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's applicable for so many potential disorders. Right, disease process, I think I had a couple of years. I had a, I think a couple of years ago I had an SVT patient, that which is where the heart beats really, really fast and you can see it on the monitor going very, very fast. And one of the first things I did was I went in and I shut the light off because there's a fluorescent above the head, and I just calmly talked to the patient and you could see, within five minutes the rate actually comes down.
Speaker 2:What we oftentimes use is things like vagal manures, where we'll rub the carotid or we'll have patients blow into a straw, or we'll use adenosine right, what is adenosine? Adenosine is the sleep signal, right? So I always talk to my colleagues about, okay, what is the chemical that puts you to sleep? And they're all like melatonin. I'm like no, it's adenosine, just like it does for SVT. It calms down the system, but anyway. So all I did was shut off the light and the patient's rate normalized within five minutes, and so it's little things like that, but they don't come up on the radar and patients, and certainly providers, oftentimes don't know that. Hey, that's best part of the toolbox too. You know that you can use, which is it's no risk, right? There's not a downside to turning off a light, or there's not a downside from getting someone out at 6.30 in the morning. What's the downside?
Speaker 2:There's not one So-.
Speaker 1:That they lose the prescriptions to their 100 units of insulin and their SGLT2 inhibitor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean. But it is interesting I don't know if you noticed this, max is. I think it's interesting sometimes too that the potential of losing an identity to a disease. You know some patients are identified by their disease. It's almost scary for them, it makes them uncomfortable. They're like, well, what if I'm not? You know, what if I'm not a rheumatoid arthritis patient anymore? What if I'm not, you know, a major depressant? What if I don't have that? That's not. You know I've lost who I am, and I think that's where I kind of have to tiptoe around, because you can tell some of these patients are so identified by their disease process that you just want to slowly kind of get them into the right kind of movement from unhealthy to healthy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and you can definitely put people offside if you try to tell them or make it out that they should do something. And really I just present options. That's how I frame it. These are the suite of options. I feel it's my obligation and duty to inform you of something that I know has a high probability of working, but it's, at the end of the day, it's completely up to them whether they want to make any action on that at all. But I think, yeah, we've covered a lot, Brian, and thank you so much for coming on. I think you know as I. To summarize in my point of view, you know so much of this chronic health problem and epidemic that we have is just various shades of sunlight deficiency, mitochondrial dysfunction caused by sunlight deficiency, and making some of these really simple acts, like going outside first thing instead of you looking at your phone, can be the beginning of a real healing journey for our patients.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I completely agree. I did have one question for you that I was kind of interested in what your response would be. I don't know how many podcasts you've done, which podcasts stick out the most to you which could actually create change that you've done throughout whatever four or five, six years that you've been doing this change that you've done throughout whatever four or five, six years that you've been doing this.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, that's a. That's a difficult question. I think change and and and I mean probably the most the most uh podcast that's had the most traction, probably be my my first jack cruz podcast, um, that continues to get a whole bunch of of uh interest and although and for people who've listened to it it's it's characteristically in depth and um dense information. Dense it's, I think, the presentation and the way that one flowed. It still seems to be pretty universally applicable, even to people who don't don't have training but um, but um, yeah, I mean, I think each one speaks to a different type of person and that's the value of getting different guests on, because every, every, every guest, everyone, um, is going to speak to a different person in the audience who can identify with that message and understand the message in a way that resonates the most with them at that point in their life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think it is about those on-ramps. It's about giving the patients the on-ramp and giving them as many possible on-ramps as possible, and I think if you do that, then they'll be in control of their disease process and their healing journey. And I think all we can do, you and I is probably shine that near-infrared light on the perineum of the medical society and see if we can get a change.
Speaker 1:And I think we'll see how that goes. Yeah, I 100% agree. Thank you, brian, again for your time, for your wisdom and for sharing all these insights. I think people are going to love this one. So where can people find you if they want to get in touch or read your work?
Speaker 2:You know I'm really again. You and I talked about this. I'm pretty new to this game, although I feel like I've got a lot to say. I do a lot of my stuff on Substack and Twitter. That's kind of where I base everything from. I've just got into some Instagram, but it's Dr GrimMD. That's my handle typically and, yeah, I'm interested, I'm open, I'm happy to try to help, not treat, but I'm happy to listen to anything that you have to say. So come on over and log into my sub stack and subscribe and we'll see how it goes.
Speaker 2:I think this is something that's really good. I think we have the ability now to use long form and carve out. Some actually make time to improve the disease treatment kind of process, and I think that's where this is really coming in handy and the podcasts are great. But the ability to really kind of write down on computer now and to dissect this into little bits I think the opportunity is there, the information is there. We just have to take a little time and take a look at it, and that goes to my colleagues and it goes to my patients. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And look, I think that's the end of the it, and that goes to my colleagues and it goes to my patients. Yeah, and look, I think that's the end of the day. All that we can hope for is that the people who are ready will receive the message. And I'm not interested in changing everyone's mind at all, and I think you'd probably agree with me. It's about providing and offering people who are ready for the message. And yeah, that's, I guess, what we're here for. And thank you for what you're doing. And and yeah, I would really encourage everyone listening to, to subscribe to Dr Grimm's Substack and start reading what he's got to say about the field biology, cause it's, it's great stuff. Cool, I appreciate it, thanks so much, max.
Speaker 2:Have a great evening. All right, you too. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Cool.
