Yoga for Chronic Pain Relief

When doctors told Judi Bar she would need spinal fusion surgery or likely end up in a wheelchair, she made a bold request: "Give me one year to help myself." That decision not only saved her from surgery but launched her on a transformative journey to become a pioneering yoga therapist who has helped countless people with chronic pain.

In this deeply personal conversation, Judi shares how she developed "heart-centered yoga" after discovering traditional yoga classes weren't accessible for someone with her condition. Her approach breaks down yoga postures into accessible components that work for everybody—whether you're dealing with joint pain, mobility issues, or have never tried yoga before.

"Yoga should never hurt," Judi emphasizes, challenging the common misconception that yoga is only for the young and flexible. As she explains, the powerful combination of mindful movement, breathing techniques, and meditation can help calm the nervous system, reducing stress hormones that often exacerbate chronic pain conditions.

Whether you're struggling with chronic pain, sleep difficulties, stress management, or simply want to improve your overall well-being, this episode offers practical guidance on how to find the right yoga class for your needs and simple techniques you can try immediately at home. Discover how this accessible practice might become your path to better health, increased body awareness, and a more mindful approach to life.

Transcript

Leigh Klekar: 0:01

Welcome to the Speaking of Women's Health podcast. I'm your guest Leigh ,Klekar, the producer of the podcast, and I'm happy to be back in the Sunflower House with a very special guest, Judi Bar. And on today's new episode we are going to be talking about the benefits of yoga and how it can help with chronic pain. But first let me tell you a little bit about Judi and her professional background. She is recently retired from Cleveland Clinic as lead yoga therapist and yoga program manager and she helped to get their yoga program started and growing.

Leigh Klekar: 0:42

Judi is a yoga therapist certified through the International Association of Yoga Therapists. She has over 40 years of yoga practice, including 10 years of practicing in her own studio before joining Cleveland Clinic. She came to yoga after her own chronic back pain led her to adapt yoga for her self-recovery and care and we'll talk a little bit more about that throughout the interview and she brought her approach to Cleveland Clinic and co-wrote a curriculum for a chronic disease reversal program called Lifestyle 180. Judi calls her approach heart-centered yoga, an inclusive practice that is accessible to everyone, including those who are not comfortable or capable of a traditional yoga class.

Leigh Klekar: 1:31

Judi is recognized nationally. She has been a featured speaker at the International Association of Yoga Therapists, integrative Medicine and at Women's Health Conferences, and she has shared on speaking of women's health on our website many videos and articles that you can find. And Judi has been featured in Yoga Journal, the international journal of yoga therapy, and yoga therapy today and I'm not done yet. She's on the advisory board for yoga therapy today and yogatherapherapy Health, and she has released two yoga DVDs, one called Come as you Are Yoga and the second one called Come as you Are Yoga in Nature. Welcome, Judi.

Judi Bar: 2:17

Hi, it's so exciting to be here.

Leigh Klekar: 2:18

Thank you, thank you, so I thought it'd be nice to start the interview with you telling us a little bit about how you got into yoga and your story of spinal stenosis diagnosis.

Judi Bar: 2:32

Yes, Well, I was in my mid 40s at the time. Gee, I think that was only a couple years ago. Yeah, definitely, wink, wink, wink. Right, I was in my 40s and really active. I had a full-time career. I was also. Partly of what I was doing also is I've been a dancer ballet dancer and a performer and a choreographer. So I was really, really active and I went to bed one night. I was fine.

Judi Bar: 3:04

The next morning I woke up and I could barely walk and it began an over a five year process of chronic pain. And so the idea of what I went through and being able to relate to what happens when, when we have chronic pain now, chronic pain is something that lasts at least it's longer than three months. You know it's not acute where you sprain an ankle. Acute can lead to chronic pain. Now, chronic pain is something that lasts at least it's longer than three months. You know it's not acute, where you sprain an ankle, acute can lead to chronic pain. But mine turned out. At first we thought it was acute but then it lasted. So that started the process, that the deteriorating process of geez, I can't move very well, and it was really hard to believe because there I was active. I was, you know, I was still. I was teaching dance, I was choreographing, I was really active and just to be felt like that.

Judi Bar: 3:55

And the stenosis ended up as it was progressing. It would squeeze some of the nerves and what would happen is I would be walking and all of a sudden I'd fall. You know, here I'm walking and try to be, you know I'm being grateful, right, and there I go. So you know, there was, I was walking with a cane and it was just such, a, such a dichotomy of what it was like and getting diagnosed and the depression and changing our lifestyle and in order, geez, can I go grocery shopping? Does my back hurt so bad today that I can't go out? And so I really lived it and I kept thinking what is, you know, this just can't, this just can't be real, right, can't, this just can't be real right. And so I went the three, four or five years trying to find ways to help and, um, the, the last straw, or what I say, the last, or the turning point for me was when the neurosurgeon and the um radiologists were basically standing over the, the gurney as.

Judi Bar: 5:03

I was being examined and they said she has to have surgery, we have to do, you know, we have to do the fusion, we have to do this. And then the, the radiologist was no. But if you do that, and it's right, you know, I can hear you right, the patients right here, you know, they're going back and forth and back and forth. And I appreciated what the radiologist was saying because, of course, course, with the history and, you know, with all the experience the physicians have and all the data, this is what we see. But and certainly the side effects or the disadvantages of doing a particular surgery. But the radiologist said the rest of her back is going to go, you fuse, you see up and down, it's going to, she's going to have problems and then there'll be more and more and more and it'll just continue to get worse. And I'm listening to this and then I, I finally said, all right, stop, stop. I said you know what, give me a year and I'm going to see what I can do to help myself. So in those five years, I, I, you know, I think sometimes as patients we don't realize how much we can take into our own hands. And so the experience for me was just, it was so valuable because it really helped to color how I worked and what I ended up wanting, wanting to do and literally changed my career sport. And so I said, give me a year, I'm going to work on this and see if I can make any changes.

Judi Bar: 6:32

And the neurosurgeon was not happy with me. He said he was almost sneering. He said, oh, you're going to be begging me to come back for surgery. And I'm thinking, well, if I am, I'm not so sure I'm going here. You know, know, and I'm sure it was a bad day. I mean, I'm not, you know, trying not to take it out of context, but, um, it was. That was also quite a few years ago, where there wasn't as much known about the whole body and what, what you can do and how much we can help ourselves with integrative and complementary type practices, right? So, not long after that, my mom and she always she was so cute because she would say I'm the one that told you she said, judy, why don't you try yoga? And I, you know, I had the same. I had the idea that everybody thinks yoga has to be right. You know, a pretzel, right?

Leigh Klekar: 7:30

And people right, could only do it.

Judi Bar: 7:32

Young people that could you know where. And at that point I was still, you know, I still feel young and young at heart. At that point, being in my 40s I, you know, are young. Two weeks before my yeah, two weeks before my back went out, I was performing, you know, dancing, so you know, it was, um, I was still, you know, quite vital. And she said, I think you should try yoga. And I said, okay, I will. And, um, but I couldn't find any yoga that I could do.

Judi Bar: 8:05

I, I tried one of the big, the big guys that, um, here's yoga for back hair. And I put I, it was a DVD at the time, you know, and I, and I'm like I can't do this because of what's going on with my back, right, and I tried something else. And I tried something else and I thought, no wonder people think yoga isn't accessible. And so I sat back and there was something inside me and this is what's important for our patients too is it just didn't feel right that my path? They told me if I didn't get that surgery in a year I'd be in a wheelchair, that my back was going to deteriorate that bad. I was already walking with a cane and I said this just doesn't seem like it's what's supposed to happen to me, right. So I began the process of self teaching myself yoga, but making it very accessible and easy, breaking it down therapeutically, working on this and that, this and that and I didn't have anybody tell me this is going to really help.

Judi Bar: 9:06

This is going to you're going to get better. I just in my heart of hearts, I just thought there's got to be something more I can do. I've got to take myself off that gurney and empower myself and do everything I can that's not harmful and not against what the doctor said. I didn't stop any of the medicines, I didn't do any of the. I didn't do anything radical that way, but I took more of it into my own hands and it took me a while. It's probably well over a year. But, um, wow, the rest. The rest is history.

Judi Bar: 9:37

I'm, I did it, you know. I was able to get back to and and. But how I did it was I looked at my stress levels, I watched and started eating more anti-inflammatory foods, I meditated, I walked, I looked at my social life. I made other changes because I also realized how much stress I was in a really stressful job. I was actually in video production and I did corporate, corporate communications type work, but also video production, and it was really stressful. So I I not only did the yoga, and here's the key yoga helps us to become so mindful and aware of how we feel and what we're doing by just naturally, we begin to look at the rest of our, the rest of our life, and go oh that's really not fitting or that doesn't feel right, and so that mindful approach calms the nervous system.

Judi Bar: 10:34

So any chronic pain that we're talking about, if we look at the mindful approach and the calming aspect of getting out of the sympathetic response into the parasympathetic, we're already practically halfway there. So I did a deep dive into yoga, the depths of it, and my mom was always so cute, she'd say. And who told you to do yoga? Yeah, she's taking all the credit Right.

Judi Bar: 11:04

And I said, mom, you did Absolutely and for the longest time I kept. She got me one of these little from I think it was Shopping Network and it was a you know, it was a mat and a little this and a little that to help me get started. And she would come to my yoga classes when I taught the therapeutic yoga, and so I looked at it as a gift from the universe, saying you know what, if you can figure out how to do this, you can turn this around. And so I changed my career. I knew that I wanted to help other people because I felt so helpless and you know so well, helpless you know, either.

Judi Bar: 11:41

How do I, how do how do I do this? And so that whole process and I studied and ultimately became a yoga therapist and then I knew I needed to get into the bigger picture. I had a very thriving business it was called Heartlight actually and when the opportunity came to the clinic came to me then because they knew I kind of had a local came to the clinic. Came to me then because they knew I kind of had a local, you know, a reputation of being able to help with chronic pain and all yeah.

Judi Bar: 12:11

I thought, yep, this is where I have to go. I can reach more people. Yes, so here I am. Yeah, and almost 25 years later, Wow, wow I feel good Wow.

Leigh Klekar: 12:22

That's great. Yeah, that's amazing. What a story. I mean it just it's pretty cool. Yeah, it is. Yeah, I mean you know, because a lot of people you know some, you know especially someone like you who was a dancer, so exercising and moving your body was your life, and then to one day wake up and then that all changed. You know, know, and then it's like it took my legs away from me.

Judi Bar: 12:44

Yeah, yeah, wow. Well, yoga and dance now too. So so just to say that, yeah, you just never know.

Leigh Klekar: 12:54

Yeah, I was a dancer, not like you. I'd never a great choreographer, but I went on to college and did a minor in dance, so I understand. Yes, and my friend owns a yoga studio, got me into it. I have scoliosis and so I've got uneven hips. Yes, and wow, when I don't do yoga for you know, sometimes it gets tricky I can see in my body, you know, I could feel that pain. You can. Just you know it's, it really is.

Judi Bar: 13:21

You know what, and you're really smart to keep maintaining it, because what happens is our body, whatever the twist is in your spine, and our body wants to go back to homeostasis, so it'll keep pulling. So you really no matter what have to, you just keep it up and you see it. I mean, and that's the key about mindfulness too, is that you realize, oh boy, I, oh, I haven't done this for a while. And you listen to your body and then respond because our body you know pain is just pain. Many times it's just a message from our body to say, hey, pay attention to this.

Leigh Klekar: 14:00

Right, right, absolutely, I mean. And you mentioned also just the benefits. Yes, of course it helps obviously with your chronic pain and it can help others with pain, but it gives you a sense mentally. It makes you almost at least me, I can't speak for everybody, but just a more positive person. I see things in a better light. I see people in a better light. I want to be better. I don't know what that is, I don't know if it's the breathing or the instructor, but it really does make a difference for me and the type of person I am and who I want to be.

Judi Bar: 14:32

So it can affect our well-being. And I think years ago, where yoga had gotten such a bad rap that it's culty and it's this, and that it's really more about positive thinking and noticing how we feel and that mindful approach of first, I'm going to just be conscious of my breath, and if we're conscious of our breath in yoga class, we begin to often that realize, whoa, I'm holding my breath. I'm really upset here. I'm going to take another deep breath and we're going to try to maintain because the breath is everything. The physical aspect of it is certainly a byproduct because and I'll get into that a little bit more about this the style that we, we teach in all.

Judi Bar: 15:14

But you're absolutely right, I believe everything in my life, I think, changed and improved when I began this practice, because we talk about gratitude and patience and kindness and non harm being present, right, and those are wonderful things because in essence, it helps our well being and to our mind, everything's real. And if we're ruminating about stuff and we were talking about this and we're mad about that and we're going around like that, guess what it sends, what messages it sends to our body stress, stress hormones, and that the inflammatory rate starts or I shouldn't say starts, but can get um pushed up a little bit so you described that very well and I'm very glad to hear that you're doing it.

Leigh Klekar: 16:01

Thank, you, yes, so I want to talk about since we've already touched on many of these the benefits of yoga, if you wouldn't mind sharing that with our audience. You know we talked about pain, so maybe other types of pain in addition to just a general chronic pain, what other conditions can be improved by doing yoga?

Judi Bar: 16:22

Okay, so to start out by doing yoga, okay, so to start out again is just, you know what is yoga? Yeah, and it's the combination of the mind, the body and the breath, right, so many times people don't even realize that, they just think of it as the physical posture. And so the physical posture absolutely helps. And in the accessible type of yoga, the heart-centered yoga that I do, it breaks down the muscle groups and works on. You know, there's a lot of people that can't get on the ground. Well, how do we do a cobra or a sphinx that we can get a similar benefit without having to get on the ground? And maybe one day we work towards it. So when we say mind, body and breath, we're working the physical aspect, we're adding that wonderful breath. That, ultimately, is what calms us, and yoga can, in the calming action, it can also restore, so we relax and slow down. But it also I call it the ultimate green machine because it also then can energize us, right, right, but then it it also works on our mind.

Judi Bar: 17:26

Simple things. I'm doing a balancing pose, right, and I'm starting to say we can. Oh geez, I used to be able to do this all the time. Now, look at me, I can't do this. Yes, and we, we notice our thoughts and realize I'm not supporting myself. I'm not, I'm strong, I can do this, I'm strong, I can do this. So any type of so I'm going to say this. My friends and I and my team members would say this too you can breathe, you can do yoga, and so when we look in the magazines and we see somebody standing there with their foot behind and lifting, most people think there is no way I can do yoga. So we do the mind, we do the breath, but we also can adapt to the poses in a way that is accessible for anyone.

Judi Bar: 18:19

So when I first started teaching at the clinic in 2007, there really wasn't a lot of solid NIH data that said yoga for back pain, yoga for this, yoga for that. There was plenty that would come from India, which is one of the origins of yoga, but that wasn't enough research for the United States and for our physicians, which is understandable. In these 20 years or so that I've started, there's all kinds of wonderful data. So carpal tunnel, high blood pressure, obesity, fibromyalgia, lupus, breast cancer. I mean there's there's time and time again. As a matter of fact, our department was involved in three, four different studies while I was there and it's still going on with epilepsy and the mind study.

Judi Bar: 19:09

We did a virtual chronic chronic pain chronic lower back pain study which we published and we got very good results. So people with chronic pain that were employees of the clinic that's how we said it was virtual. We got some really good results and I can send a link to that if anybody wants to read about that.

Leigh Klekar: 19:35

Yes, we could put that in our show notes for our listeners, because I know chronic lower back pain is a topic that at least we get a lot of questions about at Speaking of Women's Health.

Judi Bar: 19:45

Absolutely, I'll get that and I'll address some of that as we're talking, as we're talking. So honestly, there really isn't anything that in one way or another, whether it's just the calming action or structurally, we're able to balance the muscle groups that yoga can't help If we just overridingly look at yoga can. Yoga helps to lower our stress response as we practice it. And, honestly, in 2007, when I was hired, there wasn't a lot of data yet, right, and they said and I worked with Dr Michael Roizen and Dr Cosgrove was the CEO at the time and not directly with Dr Cosgrove, but he was also part and parcel to it they said you know what? There's enough data to show that yoga can help the stress response. We're bringing you on to help us, you know. And so when we talk about chronic pain, whether it's headaches or fibromyalgia or side effects of cancer or whatever it is the very first thing we're going to look at is we're able to calm that response. And when we're in that parasympathetic response, we're not secreting the hormones that will exacerbate inflammation and so the inflammatory rate in our body. Not only it's stress, it's what we eat, you know. It's a lack of motion, it's all. And what's so beautiful about yoga is we can meet you where you are, and too often a yoga class will be all right you're coming in and this is how you're going to do the poses, versus we're going to wrap the yoga around you. We're not going to force you to hurt yourself or force yourself to do things, and with that it's adaptable.

Judi Bar: 21:32

I've taught amputees, I teach in wheelchairs, I've I've taught it how I worked with patients in hospice laying down in bed, um, and it, it all, it all can be done. The key and I know we'll get to this and I want I do want to talk about chronic, chronic back pain a little bit more too um, specifically, um is that you know, as long as you find an instructor that knows how to do this, and so the difference between a yoga instructor and a yoga therapist is a lot more training and a lot more experience. So a yoga instructor has a basis of 200 hours, which is the minimum A yoga alliance sets the certification for that. A yoga therapist needs easily two to three thousand hours of training, okay, and a lot of that is around not only training, but experience within different disease processes.

Judi Bar: 22:32

How can yoga help? How can yoga hurt? Because, no matter what if you're trying to do something that's not good for you, whether it's with holding your breath, which is not good for most people, or an average person to doing things that could force and hurt a joint? So a yoga therapist has a lot more training and understands how to work yoga and support, not harm you any further and also help you with the disease process. But there's plenty of really wonderfully seasoned yoga teachers out there that are not yoga therapists but have had so much hands-on experience that they're absolutely excellent. They could be considered that also because of their experience. So, of all the disease processes you've talked about, really anybody can benefit, no matter what your challenge is. The key is going to be to find the right instructor to mold it around you, right.

Leigh Klekar: 23:32

You know, I know I hear a lot of people say friends, family, you know it's just, it's not for me. I just don't have the patience to start that breathing. But I think once you find, like you said, the right instructor or the right therapist, the right studio or even the right like online platform, you know there's wonderful options now Right, and that's great. I think you, just after like a couple of weeks or a couple sessions, you know, give it more than just one chance, is what I would say as a person who started it, and it was challenging at first, like you mentioned.

Leigh Klekar: 24:04

The balance, I mean and I was a dancer and I get, I get in my head I should be able to stand on one foot. I did. But you know what Our bodies change, we get older hormones, all of that, and you might not have the best balance, but who cares? Put your toe down, right, or you know, put your leg down and just focus maybe then on the breathing and get out of that negative head space. And so I just might. I just wanted to mention, like how you would you recommend somebody who is having some sort of pain to look for more of a therapist to get started if they've never done yoga before or work with their physician, maybe.

Judi Bar: 24:41

Well, you know, we always sorry to interrupt you. We always want to check with our physician, is it okay? What can I do, what can't I do? You know, knee replacement, hip replacement, abdominal surgery, back surgery, whatever it is. Obviously we always check what can I do, what can, what can I not do? And there's, you know, sometimes it's pretty general Just don't lift, don't do this, don't do that. So there's a website which you know I belong to, international Association of Yoga Therapists, and there's a registration. There's a list there of therapists, yoga therapists that could most likely be in there. I mean, it's worldwide, so there would be a list there.

Judi Bar: 25:30

Recommendations from people for sure. And you're right, we have to give it a little bit of time because well and a savvy teacher, if they're starting a beginning class, they're not going to ask people to sit for 10 minutes quietly and don't move and then get them moving, because that's not possible. Our mind, we're used to multitasking easily two or three things at once, and so somebody asks you to stop First off, it's not going to work because you can still stay in here and you're going to go all over the place. I don't like this. This is uncomfortable. I don't care.

Judi Bar: 26:08

It's working gradually into. You're moving, you're breathing, you're quiet for a couple of seconds while you're in balance. You're moving, you're breathing, you're quiet for a couple seconds while you're in balance, you're moving, you're breathing, you're quiet and you work towards that because we're multitasked. I mean the day more technology came and there were two or three things on a screen at once was the day that all of us started even multitasking more and being able to do more. So you're right, it's hard. You don't want to give up. You want the teacher, the instructor, to be safe and knowledgeable and accessible.

Judi Bar: 26:42

If you go into a class and some of the things that you might ask is this is important actually, do they do hands on adjustments? We don't teach it, we don't say that that's a good thing to do, because if you're in a pose, let's say you're balancing or trying to balance, maybe there's a chair in front of you and trying to balance and somebody comes up to you and says and there's no mirror, you can't see, and they go first off. It can scare you, but we don't know what's going on inside that body, and so I prefer that you know some of the things they ask what's the experience of the teacher? You know I have this particular injury or challenge.

Judi Bar: 27:30

You know how do you think they would handle it? No hands on. And you know there's several styles. There's plenty of styles out there. Some of them are a lot more traditional. Where there's where there might be more of a chant you know using sound and that might be uncomfortable.

Judi Bar: 27:53

So there's plenty of teachers that don't do that. Now, to explain what that is, think about when we're in church or when we're in a choir and we're singing. There's actually a vibration that goes on within our body with our vocal cords and that can be actually really quite healing. And so the basis of that in yoga is really about the vibration that happens. There's plenty of classes that they don't do that. So, for all of our listeners, don't worry about it.

Judi Bar: 28:24

If something like that feels uncomfortable, there's plenty of instructors that don't do that to keep it even more user-friendly. So, and then you know finding out what their training is and ask if you can try a class to see if you feel comfortable, and finding that line between my mind won't quiet uncomfortable versus this is not a class for me. You know this is not where I want to go, and so it can be. It could take a little bit of time, but between and we'll put those resources down. I think Yoga Alliance and IOYT there's registration lists of instructors that are out there Right, so that's worth a try.

Leigh Klekar: 29:11

Yeah, that's wonderful. So we started touching on the benefits and I know you've mentioned how yoga can help reduce anxiety and stress and we know a lot of women and men and and teens, you know the the stress and anxiety in our everyday lives now can be a really problem for some sleep. You know, I think that, you know, yeah, and I know again, you know our a lot of our audiences like midlife women either in the perimenopause stage, menopause- or postmenopause.

Leigh Klekar: 29:43

Yes, and sleep is a, you know, a huge issue for many women and again and men.

Judi Bar: 29:49

Well, you know, part of that is our mind right. First off, you know we usually tell our doctor and they make sure there's nothing, you know any, anything else physically disturbing that would cause a sleep problem, and it could. Sometimes it's a combination of the medicine you know there might be a medicine that's on that, that's a side effect of. But what yoga will help us do is notice our breath quiet down. You know we have our bed ritual or bedtime ritual. If there's something bothers, maybe write it down quiet music staying. You know all the the sleep, uh, hygiene type things stay off our ipad and you know as much as possible. But, um, what I find is is, if my mind, mind is going, I come to a breath, and this is the thing that's so cool is there's so many different ways to breathe that could suit us, suit our style and what we need to help to quiet us down. Because what we're trying to do is not only calm that heart rate, but this, and so we begin to look at how we can quiet the mind to be able to get, I mean, sleep. Oh my gosh, it's so important.

Judi Bar: 30:58

And how much we cut off, you know, first off, we're so busy that we cut our amount of sleep down anyway, we go to bed later. We still have to get up early, right? So, yes, there's beautiful poses, there's poses that will affect, that can wake us up. So what happens? When we yawn, we go. Well, you, you know what, when we're opening our chest like that, that stimulates the sympathetic response, when we bend forward, which there's just, there's a couple trunks in our cervical and a couple trunks in our lower back, that will affect the um, parasympathetic response, the sleep response. So there's beautiful practices that can happen in the evening that you make it a little bit of a ritual. You know, you bend forward and you do some stretches and things, so that can also help us. So, sleep, you're so right and there's so many challenges with it. But I'll tell you, with practice you can really affect your sleep.

Leigh Klekar: 31:53

Oh yeah, after a good yoga session, I mean I can't stay awake past like 9, 930. My kids are like what's? I'm like mom did yoga today. So the breathing for me I don't know it, but it really does help. I mean I can say that again personally. And what about weight loss? And just the physical part, right.

Judi Bar: 32:13

Yeah, that's a good part. So, yes, we were talking a little bit about the cardiovascular effect. So the biggest, the biggest effect that yoga can have for weight loss, the first and the most the foremost, I believe, is your own body awareness, which helps you understand your hunger, your satiate. You know when you're satiated, when you're thirsty, when you're stressed, eating. So there's almost that idea that overlaps into understanding the reasons why or why am I eating Twinkies at 10 o'clock at night. That awareness, yoga helps our circulation. It, you know. It, affects our heart rate. We can work and strengthen bones.

Judi Bar: 33:06

You know osteopenia, osteoporosis, Although with both osteopenia, osteoporosis and weight, there's always a suggestion. There's always a suggestion that you need more than just yoga. Yoga will support it. I, there's always a suggestion that you need more than just yoga. Yoga will support it.

Judi Bar: 33:22

There's certainly people out there that do the power yoga, where you're in a hot room and it's fast-paced move, move, move. So, yes, of course there's cardiovascular. That's not for everybody and when we move fast our muscles they don't even get into position and you tell them to move again and they're like, ah, and so we actually can hurt ourselves, right? So I believe that the mindful approach and really listening to our body and understanding when we go to eat and why we want to take better care of ourselves. So I think with the actual physical activity of yoga, it helps because it keeps us supple, it helps us with our balance, it helps us to feel better, but we don't necessarily burn a lot of calories like we would if we did a brisk 45-minute walk, okay, or we did. You know, we did resistance training. So I think it's a good adjunct and a support.

Leigh Klekar: 34:17

Okay, an adjunct and a support Okay. And if you're doing some of the poses, you know that where you're, you know you're, you know pushing up and you're using your arms almost like. Would you consider that a little bit of strength training? Oh, absolutely.

Judi Bar: 34:30

Okay, yes, oh, absolutely. And there's plenty of ways. I always we use gravity right as resistance. So even even when I do a therapeutic class, which a lot of times they'll sit on the chair and, by the way, you wouldn't believe all the wonderful things and the benefits we can get even from sitting on a chair because we can get deeper into muscles and strengthen so absolutely. There's strength, there's strength training, so training, I guess, but there's strength advantages Absolutely If, if we can hold, let's say, a warrior pose.

Judi Bar: 35:02

You know the warrior goes out, you're, you're in a lunge and you're looking out. If we can hold that about 90 seconds. There's data about osteopenia and osteoporosis that we're, we're, we're wrapped. You know the muscles are getting wrapped. It's an active pose. It's like it's not, but it's really active. We're using the muscle and if we hold it 90 seconds, we're not only wrapping the muscle around but we're getting into the hips and and and using that more. So I would say it's, it's perfect. We were going to be the wellness integrative is looking at doing a um. I think we're talking. They were talking about a shared medical appointment, about strength, the strength of yoga to help, to help our bones. So in that respect we really can. I think it still would be nice to use free weight and and and as an adjunct to what we do, but with a well-rounded and a consistent practice, you absolutely can do strengthening thighs, even seated. You sit up, you use your core and that's one thing I want to remind all of our viewers is to watch your posture right.

Leigh Klekar: 36:12

It's so easy to let that happen.

Judi Bar: 36:14

It is yes to let that happen. It is yes. And lack of motion? Our beautiful body. If we keep going like that, over time our bones say well, I guess we're going to have to stabilize her up this way, because she hasn't moved any different for a long time. It actually can get Become like a permanent posture almost right. Yes, I didn't want to say damage, but what happens is it can become more permanent because the bones move it, you know, instead of just all muscle.

Leigh Klekar: 36:49

Yes, interesting, I mean. And you, I don't know, maybe it's the old dancer in me, but I do. You know, I notice a lot of people. You know. You're walking, just you know, in the grocery store.

Judi Bar: 37:05

A lot of people. You know you're walking, just you know, in the grocery store a lot of people have that.

Leigh Klekar: 37:08

Yeah.

Judi Bar: 37:08

Yeah, so well, yeah, it's like depression, you know, and it's gravity and it's this and it's this and you know, watch this. Yeah, look at, look at how much and look what the rotator cuff Right, I mean, look at how far that had to go. Cuff Right, I mean, look at how far that had to go Right, holy cow, it is so easy, right?

Leigh Klekar: 37:21

So easy. I just I remember, um, even my dance teacher saying you know, a good way to kind of do it is put your shoulders up, push them down and feel those back muscles right, kind of just you know working and no. But it takes some work to get used to that If you, especially if you're always kind of been a huncher to really get you know to change that posture and to change the way that you sit and stand. But it really can do wonders.

Judi Bar: 37:45

Oh, it does and it strengthens us. So if we're sitting on the back of our chair, we're not using any muscle. Yeah, so if we sit up, we have to use our core, right? I?

Leigh Klekar: 37:55

mean I have to use our core Right.

Leigh Klekar: 37:56

I have to use my whole back and my stomach to just sit up straight Right All the way up, so just everyday hits like that Right, and I do want to have you, if you have a few minutes, to show us a few at home. But before we do I want to again, for a lot of the people who are new to yoga or maybe only tried it, like at their local Y or one time, a DVD or at home. But what are a few of the different types and ones that maybe you would recommend for either beginners or those who've only done it a few times, here and there?

Judi Bar: 38:37

generally, as I find is and I'm so sorry for some of the studio owners that might see this, that may take exception to it, but I generally find yoga studio you know out in the strip center and it tends to be a little bit, maybe a little bit less accessible for someone new or average coming in, unless you're young, in pretty darn good shape, you can step in. So, let's say, the demographics that we're talking about might be maybe mid-30s up and maybe not quite as in shape as we'd like. And I'm not even talking if, if it's weight, but just maybe not having a chance to move much. But if it is weight or if there is other challenges generally like you'll hear it a vinyasa flow or you know, or power yoga, those those I think tend to be something that you might work towards there. They're not accessible for everybody, so it would be watching for the instructor that that teaches it. But, and again, also that style. So and most people don't differentiate this, but a good roundabout style is called hatha, or it's actually said hatha h-a-t-h-a.

Judi Bar: 40:01

Okay, it's the basic yoga. It, uh, it combines the meditation, the breath and the movement. Um, and that's the, the umbrella, okay, and so beginning right, um, I call mine therapeutic or have called it therapeutic or wellness, um, the way the style that I I developed after I realized how inaccessible an average yoga class was, um, was I took the, took the poses and broke them down. So so you know, cobra is laying on the ground and pushing up. It's actually done in physical therapy too.

Judi Bar: 40:42

But what if we did? Let's say we wanted to make it accessible. So here's my chair. What if, by pulling back and leaning forward, I'm able to open up the chest and stretch everything down to the waist, and then I do some other stretches to work the bottom part of it? So it's breaking down the poses to make it accessible, get the benefit of it and then eventually being able to put it together. So look for the simplest and basic descriptions of the yoga and then ask those questions. You know, do I necessarily have to get on the ground right off the bat? I mean, there's people in their 30s that have a hard time lifting their arms or even getting on the ground because of lack of motion, right? So it isn't just an older, active, older adult kind of a situation that we're dealing with here. You know, of older adults kind of the situation that we're dealing with here. You know so, and if you do that, that class won't, you know, won't necessarily be for them right the um.

Judi Bar: 41:47

So like the, the, the rocky river rec center and the city's rec centers and places like that sometimes can have really wonderful classes yeah, my mom, who's has you?

Leigh Klekar: 42:00

has arthritis, osteoarthritis, joint pain in her knees and her toes, which is again, very, very common even in women in their 30s, 40s, 50s. She tried the studios and it was too much for her and she felt almost embarrassed because all these young girls were in their cute little outfits and my mom's like I just need some pain relief and some good stretching and I just want, right, it's part of her other things she was doing in her exercise program. But she found a great class at her local Y so she tried, she just she kept trying different places and she found what worked for her and I've noticed yeah, sorry, go ahead. No, you go ahead. Oh, I was just going to say I have a app on my TV that I've installed, that I like, and it has a dot one for like, easy two dots for a little, yes, and that's helpful too. So just look for maybe that one dot or beginner level or entry level.

Judi Bar: 42:54

That's a very good suggestion. The cool part about doing an in-person class is that the teacher can watch and gauges to what's going on. But it isn't always practical and it can help you. Sometimes we're not quite as body aware and I'll say stand up straight. They don't really understand why. Stand up straight is enough, and so I can see it and ask them. Straight is enough, you know, and so I'll I can see it and ask them.

Judi Bar: 43:17

But you know, the fact is is if we could just get, if we just get moving and just get that practice, that mindful practice, anything will help as long as it doesn't hurt you, right? And you know people ask well, how often do I do it? And what's a good? You know what? What the best thing is is what's convenient for you. Maybe you love to start the day and it may be like to end the day maybe breaking it up. You know, having a little chunk that we we have as our own, where it could be 15 minutes that we put on pretty music and nice and we do a little bit on our own, you know, then take a nice bath with that, wouldn't that be a wonderful thing? That sounds great.

Judi Bar: 43:56

Yeah wouldn't that be a wonderful reasoning? That sounds great, yeah, it does. But to really look at it as what? Such a wonderful self care that I'm taking care of myself and doing that, and that in of itself, you know, the meditation part of yoga, or just meditation period, is really just a single minded focus in being able to be aware that my mind's going okay, I'm going to bring it back here and focus on my breath. Or listen to's going okay, I'm going to bring it back here and focus on my breath. Or listen to this music. My mind's okay, I'm bringing it back. And so yoga can be a mindful meditation. In other words, it's a moving meditation which can also, you know, which can really calm us. So for for our, for our listeners or our viewers, do what fits your lifestyle. Don't force. Yoga should never hurt. It should never hurt With chronic pain. Especially, we want to discern the difference between I haven't moved this muscle for a while versus shooting knife edge numbing pain.

Leigh Klekar: 44:59

Yeah.

Judi Bar: 44:59

And we should never, ever feel pain in the joints. So if you have a knee pain or if you have a deep hip pain, you stop and a beautiful yoga class will allow you, allows you and gives you that freedom to listen to your body and stop and adjust it and adapt it, because this is not a race and nothing is ever worth hurting yourself. It's just never, it's not worth it yeah to try to do something that doesn't fit right, you know right, that's wonderful advice.

Leigh Klekar: 45:30

Yeah, that's great. Before we wrap up our interview, um, is there anything else you'd like to share, any other tips or any other insight you may have?

Judi Bar: 45:41

Well, I think you said it really well when you said you know, try it. When you find someplace, try it and give it a couple times, give it more than once or twice. As humans, we kind of prejudge that this is going to work, and then it's not. And give it, and I'll tell you that it's, it's, it changed my life. It's, and the thing is, I'm soon to be 74. Wow, you do not look it.

Leigh Klekar: 46:08

You look amazing.

Judi Bar: 46:10

Of course those girls don't mind hearing that, but my back problem happened when I was 45 and and here I am and you know I teach about 12 classes a week now, myself even being retired and I'm proof that that it can work and it feels good and I think for me it changed my life because it changes how I, how I've approached things and I appreciate some of the simplest pleasures. So make a pact with yourself to count your blessings and take a moment and just really taste your tea or coffee or your blueberries and appreciate the moment that you lay in the bed and feel the coolness of the sheets, or just take a couple moments, and those simple pleasures and that simple awareness adds up during the course of the day and it can really change your life, no matter how rough things can be.

Leigh Klekar: 47:01

That's wonderful, perfectly said, thank you, thank you. Thank you, judy, for joining us on this new Speaking of Women's Health podcast. You are welcome. And, to our listeners, thanks for tuning in for another new episode, and we are grateful for your support as well and hope you will continue to join us and to catch all the latest from the Speaking of Women's Health podcast. Subscribe for free, wherever you listen to your podcasts. Thanks again for listening and we'll see you all next time in the Sunflower House. Be strong, be healthy and be in charge.