To BIM or Not to BIM: New Design-Build Delivers Podcast Explores BIM Standard, Meaningful VDC Usage

Technology seemingly develops right before our eyes. Smarter, faster and more sophisticated tools and programs consistently streamline work across industries, and the AEC industry is no exception. What can design-builders do to ensure the adoption and use of any technology is worth their time and effort and maintains the whole-team approach? 

This month on the Design-Build Delivers Podcast, DBIA and podcast sponsor VinZero U.S. CAD discuss meaningful use of BIM and VDC on design-build projects, including how a BIM standard can ensure more consistent outcomes for projects.

Guests:
Brian Skripac
DBIA Director of Virtual Design & Construction

Nick Miller
VinZero U.S. CAD Director of BIM Services

Troy Gates
VinZero U.S. CAD Director of Innovation

Access all our free design-build resources and learn more about Design-Build Done Right® at dbia.org.

DBIA members are shaping the future, one successful collaboration at a time.

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Erin Looney, Troy Gates, Brian Skripac, Nick Miller

Erin Looney  00:09

Technology is ubiquitous. That's not new information. Everywhere we look, there's another way technology is being implemented to streamline the work we do. All jokes about AI takeovers, and robot invasions aside the right technology at the right time, and in the right way can be an absolute gift and design build and the AEC industry at large are no exception. I am Aaron Looney at the DBIA national headquarters and this is the design build delivers podcast today we have a forward thinking group of guests to talk about how a specific technological area is enhancing the AEC industry and that's BIM and VDC use particularly in design build projects. Brian script back DBIA is director of virtual design and construction is here along with Director of BIM services, Nick Miller, not the character from New Girl and Director of Innovation Troy gates, both from our design build delivers podcast sponsor us CAD, we'll talk about meaningful use of BIM and VDC on design build projects, we're going to discuss what that looks like in practice, and we're going to explore how a BIM standard can lead to better outcomes.

Erin Looney  01:23

Before we get into how best to leverage BIM and VDC, let's talk about the value of BIM for owners. Value here can be time, resources, technology, personnel costs, whatever you consider value. So what are some of the major ways using them adds value for design build owners throughout the project lifecycle. 

Troy Gates  01:42

So when we work with a lot of the owners in the construction and design and construction space, identifying value is key in order for implementing BIM and VDC into their their processes and workflows. Some of those, those values can be seen early on during the design or construction. But a lot of them are seeing further on downstream when they actually are in operations. And so some of those kind of downstream values include things like estimating takeoffs, being able to produce bills, bills of materials, track construction costs, being able to do change orders quickly is things like that. But once you get into actual operations, that's where you start seeing the benefit of being able to use your facilities management program, being able to use IoT or Internet of Things to be able to monitor your building, along with your digital version of your building or a digital twin or your model. 

Brian Skripac  02:50

Troy, I think the the IoT and sensor thing is an interesting conversation, we had the opportunity to work on a project together with an owner that that really did have this lifecycle cost savings approach. And I think one of the interesting things that we saw there was also from a sustainability side, not only in design and construction, but on the operation side and looking at a, you know, an overall reduction of energy use intensity, and having some predictive analytics, instead of reactive, being reactive all the time on the operation side of projects are really interesting way to utilize all of the building information models, geometry, as well as data on the operation side, in addition to that, you know, facilities management and work orders systems and CMMS applications, and maybe even GIS applications for larger real estate owners that it starts to breed in an access and ability to quickly get information to make the best decisions about operating facilities throughout their lifecycle. 

Troy Gates  03:57

And one of the big differences there is you're seeing smart application of that data. If you think about just your thermostat in a building, yeah, you can have it adjust to you know, current temperature times of day, things like that. But if you're using IoT, and you use it smartly, it can adjust based on weather patterns, it could adjust based on, you know, how bright or intense the sun is coming through the glazing, things like that. So it allows you to be a lot smarter about how you control energy in your building. 

Brian Skripac  04:36

Even with the occupancy of the space and the use of the space which also goes into not just that, that energy consumption but also future planning of how those spaces will be occupied and utilized throughout the course of a day. 

Nick Miller  04:49

Earlier on in the project. You do recognize a lot of value as well. So you know, in our experience in the planning stages, it can really help facilitate better understanding of cost logistics and just give you a better sense of the overall project and how you will maybe want to phase it, stage it manage safety on the site. And then obviously, during construction, it can really help provide with real time analysis of like, where we have an installation orders, what's our cost? What's our delivered value? How far behind are we in man hours, all of that can be tied back to the model and used to help manage kind of the overall installation and construction of that facility, really, you know, dialing in on the work packages and understanding the sequencing of how those projects are being delivered. And then post construction it really again, to Brian and Troy's point becomes a medium to deliver and integrate all of that data that they've received in construction and make sure it doesn't get lost in the transition from construction to the CMS or the ERP systems that might be managing it. 

Erin Looney  05:53

I think it's safe to say we've convinced the nonbelievers if there are any out there, that BIM has its place and design built. In several of our recently announced DBIA merit award winners, this was evident. And the phrase begin with the end in mind kept coming up often in connection to the use of BIM and VDC. So for someone newer to this world, how would you explain the meaning of that phrase begin with the end in mind?

Troy Gates  06:18

So this is obviously an incredibly complex topic. In the simplest sense, I like to use the analogy that you have to plan out the meals you want to eat before you go to the grocery store, making a list of random items that you might eat is of no value to you, if you have no idea, no idea what you plan to have for dinner each night. So really, it's about understanding what ingredients we need to ask for upfront so that at the end, we have exactly what we need to facilitate whatever outcome you're looking to seek, that's kind of the simplest analogy I could come up with. It's really about understanding again, what is that that you're looking to accomplish, and let's work backwards from there. So from an owners point of view, you can't really define or dictate, or a guy, any of those methods, you can't do that with the design and construction team, if you don't know what you want, at the end of the day. So you have to have a target. So what do you want them to deliver to you, so that they can adjust how they work, what data to collected input, what deliverables, you know, what kind of models those kinds of things. So you can't just say I want BIM or I want BDC, because they're very broad, and they have a lot of different meanings of what that is. So as an owner, you need to build out those guide rails and and processes that you want. So that you can identify, yes, we need a model for IoT, or we need COBie data, because we're going to be implementing a certain platform and facilities that needs that data, things like that. So think about how you're going to use the data, then push it to forward into the project, so that they can use that to create those processes, models, and deliverables so that they can meet those goals of yours. 

Brian Skripac  08:15

Troy and Nick really position this on two different sides, right, there's owners who are not familiar with how to do this. And there's owners who are familiar how to do this, implement them and have this lifecycle approach. In either scenario, I think it's interesting how design build really fits well into this. So if you have an owner, who maybe already has a BIM standard already has goals defined of what they're doing. A design build team really has the opportunity to say begin with the end in mind, because you have that whole team approach, you have the design builder, the design professionals, the trade partners, they can really take a collaborative, well defined approach from day one to how they're going to deliver this information to the owner. On the other side, you may have an owner who's new to this conversation. And, you know, one of the value propositions in design build is they may just have a performance criteria, right? I want to have BIM deliverable that does X, they may not specifically know what that is. But the Design Build Team then has the opportunity to bring a value based solution to that owner of how they're going to approach that challenge. So, you know, both scenarios have really interesting tie ins back to design build teams, and that whole team approach that we talked about, which brings value to our owners.

Erin Looney  09:35

Let's keep thinking about these owners that Brian's talking about whether it's a new owner or someone who's just feeling out how to implement technology and BIM and VDC. So let's say an owner is listening to this episode and they decide you know, I need to get in on that. It sounds like I've been missing out. Maybe they've been successfully executing design build projects with 3d modeling as an afterthought. A nice to have or, you know, not at all. But now they want to make that transition to meaningful use of 3d modeling. So what are some tips that can help an owner make that transition? 

Troy Gates  10:09

Well, the first thing is don't reinvent the wheel. You know, there's a lot of owners, there's a lot of organizations that share and publish, how they how they've gone through this process. And you know, how they were successful, but also where they failed. And were able to turn those into successes by adjusting course. And with that said, there are plenty of organizations that can help you do this. So for instance, DBIA, the National Institute of Building Sciences at the federal level, organizations like that can help you identify what you need to do. But with that said, you also need to look at what do you want at the end of the day again, so based off of what we just previously talked about, what are your goals, now is it for facilities management, to be able to track what's going on in your building the people in their spaces, move management, being able to do work orders, things like that, then identify that and work towards building that and then look at the next thing that you want to do. And some of those benefits, again, 3d modeling or BIM, the VDC process, a lot of it is cost saving. So identify a target that you want to go after for cost savings, and then work with your design and construction teams to figure out how to do that. Brian and I worked with, with a healthcare organization in the past that did workshops over multiple months, and brought in design teams, contractors, subcontractors, fabricators, technology teams, and just add a blank slate and said, here's our goal, it's X amount of time reduction, X amount of cost reduction. And we worked as a team and came up with that concept. 

Nick Miller  12:12

Some real world examples that we've done with clients, some of them we're even working with today, you know, it's really kind of diving in and coming up with a plan for them. As Troy said, working with one client where we basically sat with them and looked through their entire current AutoCAD workflow. And we simply documented all the places we thought Revit might have an impact or change in that workflow and process, and then the users that would be impacted by those changes in the workflow. And then we tailored a training program to those users so that we weren't teaching everybody everything and kind of overwhelming them with information, or really taking a very targeted approach of how here's how your job will change based on the impact of and movement from 2d to 3d modeling. And for another one, we chose a capital project that they had upcoming we laser scan of their entire facility. We use that to generate ASCO documentation that the design team then used to take into the design phase and coordinate around. And then that became the delivery and vehicle mechanism for the COBie data at the end of the project to kind of feed back into their CMS system kind of launched them into this 2d to 3d, let's extract as much value out of our 3d model approach that they were taking.

Erin Looney  13:25

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Erin Looney  14:02

Now your tips made that sound pretty simple and straightforward. In a perfect world, it would be in a perfect world moving to 3d modeling on any project would immediately enhance the project. It would make the team better at their jobs, and everyone would instantly embrace the new BIM and VDC standards. But we know the world is not perfect, right. So what challenges to owners have as part of the first step in working with design teams? 

Brian Skripac  14:28

I think one of the biggest transitions of owner coming out and saying this is our BIM standard design or a builder or whoever it is on the project might might have the initial reaction of why I think one of the big opportunities for an owner is to state the why case. We're asking for this information because this will drive value for us in this way. This will enhance your productivity and efficiency on a project if we can define a framework of how everybody's going to work together. If you can have that interaction at the beginning that really sets the stage, or how project teams will work together. I think one of the other big hurdles is within creating a framework or standard is, is understanding that consistency is important. If an owner works with 10 different architects or engineers, and they get a building information model at the end of a project, they're going to be set up 10 different ways. That's just the reality. It's nobody's fault. Everybody has their own standard. But for an owner, they want to be able to drive efficiency and set some simple frameworks to understand this is the consistency that we're looking for across all of our projects, so we can better consume this information. So I think the two big ideas that come to mind are, or how is the project going to be executed using BIM? And how are the deliverables going to be formatted? Those are the two big questions to address with your design and your construction teams for that matter, to really set the expectations and understand how things are going to work moving forward. 

Troy Gates  16:04

When you're thinking about challenges, from an owners point of view, I think the biggest one is risk versus reward. When you're assessing what the risk is, could be a lot of things, they'll things like 2d versus 3d workflow and a project for a designer, it's a lot easier because they've done 2d For probably decades or more. They know how the costs run, they know how the schedule runs, moving to a 3d workflow that has to change because it is different, there's a lot more front loading in time and cost. So understanding those, but also, it's that reward, you can't move forward until you accomplish something. So the first few projects, there might be, you know, excessive budget or might go over, you might need to plan for that. But as you work with these design teams and contractors over and over, those should get better to the point where you go below the line that you typically would in a 2d process. So so it is a multi project effort. But also trust your design teams and your contractors, they've done these before, they know most of the time what they're doing. And yeah, they will have resistance against it. But that's one of the great things about design build is you're in it together as a team. So identify that as a goal from day one, that this is a multi project effort. And you're relying on that partnership that you've built with those other companies. 

Nick Miller  17:41

I think one of the biggest disconnects we see also is the kind of construction to facilities, handoff, and really kind of missing the boat in terms of getting the facilities teams what they need in the post construction model so that they can actually turn that into actionable usable data. Oftentimes, you know, we see, unfortunately, the 2d Medium gets delivered back to the facilities team, even though the project was fully 3d enabled. And they're just losing a lot of that construction turnover data. And I think really having a plan on how you want to leverage that within your CMS or your internal Facilities Maintenance Organization is a really important part of that process. Because otherwise, you, you put all that work into it, and it doesn't maybe make its way to kind of really fulfilling some of the benefits you get downstream from that. 

Troy Gates  18:30

Yeah, and I do want to share an example of a colleague of mine, he was on very sizable project. And they identify the owner identified upfront that if the contractor was willing, they were happy to have kind of a model delivery approach. So instead of handing over a set of drawings from the design to the contractor, if the team was able to work it out in the beginning and see what the the hurdles that they could overcome the benefits, again, the risk versus reward, if the contractor could build off of a model versus a set of drawings, and they worked through that. And at the end of the day, that project was able to be built with a model delivery versus a typical set of drawings. And if you can do it as a team, the reward is definitely worth it. 

Brian Skripac  19:27

Certainly that level of collaboration is what we really, really strive for and talking about here at DBIA. Right, whether it's designed built on right or VDC done right, you know, the for the builder and the design professional to be able to communicate about what each other needs and provide that information to drive success is is fantastic, and that's the opportunity that I think we all want to look for in realizing the goals of BIM and VDC. 

Nick Miller  19:57

It's a huge departure from potentially have a traditional, here's what you're gonna get at the end of the project, as opposed to what do you possibly need approach that we might see in the DBIA? A design build approach. 

Erin Looney  20:08

Throughout this episode, we have been hinting at this idea of a BIM standard. So what about this here BIM standard, right? First, is building such a standard, something that would help owners and if it would, what might that look like? 

Troy Gates  20:23

So going back to what I mentioned before, as an owner, you don't need to reinvent the wheel, you can take what others have done and use that as a foundation. Again, there's organizations that have frameworks and are building frameworks for you to use. So for instance, COBie is a great framework for data and how data is delivered through the project to hand over to the owner. There's also a big initiative right now at the federal level, with the National Institute of Building Sciences to build a federal BIM standard, and then focusing on owners first. So there are these organizations that you can use to help you build these. But, you know, utilize your partnerships, you know, these design and construction companies have done projects over and over and they they've evolved in seeing what works and what doesn't work, build it together as a team, build that foundation, but also give them more guide rails than guidelines, don't be so hardened, that they have to spend more time and effort doing something because they have to meet that expectation. Give them that flexibility. 

Brian Skripac  21:45

I totally agree with that approach. Troy, I think the other one on the on the owner side is asking the three big questions. And you know, we've heard this talked about in the past, but you know, who's going to use the information or how's the information going to be collected? How, who's going to use the information, how it will be maintained. So the owners, you know, all too often we say, we want everything, we have this availability to capture all of this data and geometry. But what's critical about the way that you specifically operate your facilities, and I think a good guideline for that is asking those three questions. And if you can't answer all three of those, it's probably not information that's important enough to include saying, This is what we need delivered at the end of the day. So it's a really valuable exercise to have that documentation that's available, you know, as part of a owners RFP and RFQ, so that design teams can understand what's going to be expected of them and what they're going to be delivering and how they're going to be working and more. So collaborating with their partners. So there's a lot of opportunity for a standard to set a benchmark for driving that consistency of the projects execution and turnover at the end of the day. 

Nick Miller  22:59

Typically, we like to start by taking a look at the contract. What are you asking for today? And then really kind of begin to look at that deliverable framework? What are you requesting? What are you looking to receive, and then, you know, building the supporting documentation that Brian and Troy alluded to, right, the BIM execution plans, the project execution plans, the model development specifications, all of that kind of builds that framework out. And then again, tying the contract language to that, so that you have a really good understanding of not only what you're expecting to receive, but you've got contract language, and that kind of dictates that that's what you'll get at the project as well, it's very important. 

Troy Gates  23:35

And to to expand on that, from your owner's point of view, you probably don't have a large staff focused on BIM VDC, you probably have a handful of people, depending on the size of your of your organization. So you don't have to build those things. That's where you can rely on you know, your design and construction companies, have them, organize this effort, have them give you you know, the input, have them build it out with your direction. Because again, they're they're kind of the experts in this space. And you can trust that relationship that you have with them that they can build a BIM execution plan, for example, that will match what you need, and maybe cut out some parts that you don't need. 

Erin Looney  24:29

So from what you just said, consistency, reliability, innovation, managing expectations, that's all much easier when there's a standard or some guidance, at least in projects as complex as what we've been talking about today. So, to that point, at DBIA, our focus is on design build done right and that includes the components of a project like BIM or VDC. So VDC done right. So how is DBIA promoting VDC done right. 

Brian Skripac  24:58

One of the exciting things that DBIA is doing is really expanding the conversation around design and construction technologies. Last year as part of our conference, we had a VDC track, which was very well attended. And this year we've actually grown that we're call it now the VDC leadership exchange. So while we're all in DC for that conference the day before, on October 31, we're having a half day workshop, which is going to be completely focused on leveraging design and construction technologies, BIM, VDC, AI, everything, everything and anything that has to do with those tools and processes that the industry is using to better deliver design build projects. So in addition to that, we'll also have our expo hall with our industry partner members like than zero us, CAD, who will be there to talk about examples just like this, you know, how are owners leveraging these technologies, we'll have other vendors there who are talking about what value their tools bring to different aspects of the project. But all in all, it's about engaging people process and technology to drive better efficiency and how we deliver design build projects. 

Troy Gates  26:16

So at US CAD, we're a national ACO technology and services company. And we have customers that range across all of those. So we have a big group of experts in the field, and we work closely with them. They're always pushing the boundary, they're innovating. And we work with them to help accomplish their goals, whether it's through technology or processes, helping them with people, people on projects, people in these roles of building standards, helping build models, things like that. And what we've seen is that as an industry, for the most part, most companies are open to sharing their knowledge. And we get a lot of that knowledge sharing into our company, and then we turn around and share that with other customers that we work with. And so we've we've really kind of set ourselves up and our company up to kind of be that vehicle to help customers and businesses to move forward in the industry. And a lot of things that we've talked about, we work on a daily basis to help organizations do that. 

Nick Miller  27:36

We really pride ourselves on meeting our clients where they are in that BIM adoption journey, and kind of help developing actionable steps to move their practice forward, right, what is the logical next step for your firm to advance and, and kind of move and become more sophisticated. So whether that's, you know, moving from capital Revit, or adopting digital twin technology, it's really about meeting our clients there and kind of helping them drive those initiatives, organization. 

Brian Skripac  28:04

Even in addition to a specific, you know, opportunity, like the VDC Leadership Exchange, we're really working to continue the conversation throughout the year, whether it's webinars, blogs, or podcasts like this, we want to continue to be a source of information and knowledge sharing, for our membership in the industry as well. So we, you know, have well, we have that focus area of this expertise and all of these thought leaders in one spot, we're also going to work with them to continue to share knowledge throughout the year. 

Erin Looney  28:34

Finally, we're going to bring this back around, you all have worked directly together, Brian and Troy, Nick and Troy, you've worked together on projects that have exemplified what we've been talking about. So what are some examples of projects that owners might look to for VDC done, right? 

Troy Gates  28:51

So one of the things that I mentioned, was about an effort, by large organization to to save time on projects and save costs on construction. And it was a project that Brian and I worked on together for multiple years. And the effort was identified originally by the owner that you know, they have these goals, and I believe it came from them adopting lean practices themselves. And so they wanted to expand that and get input from the designers and builders that they work with. And so through technology and through process and identifying opportunities to do not necessarily modular design that while they did do modular design, it was also creating a footprint of what the design would look like so that there was consistency across projects, and building kit of parts. Putting collaboration software and platforms into place, for instance, tools like the Autodesk construction cloud, that allowed the design, builder and owner to all collaborate from day one in that platform. And so, Brian, I'll let you talk more about the projects. But it was a really good opportunity to consolidate collaborate and and work towards that common goal of reducing costs and time on a project. 

Brian Skripac  30:29

But one of the biggest successes of that project was the fact that VDC was an equal part of the conversation right there. When we were meeting and going through our strategy and planning sessions, there were five big initiatives, and VDC was one of them. So it was a consistent and holistic approach to how teams would leverage technology to deliver these outcomes for the owner, which were, again scheduled based cost based performance based. And you know, having that approach, that holistic approach was really valuable for them. And I think that paid dividends and those projects continue to evolve and grow. And it's pretty exciting to see what they're doing as an owner and how they're leveraging all of these tools. The Ohio State University has a BIM project delivery standard that that first got published, I think it was back in the end of 2014, or the beginning of 2015, was when we released the first version of it. That's one that really takes into account this idea of how projects are executed, and deliverables are formatted. And it's a reference that you can go out and download for free. But both of those projects, the healthcare client that Troy and I worked on, and Ohio State were really based upon having inclusive conversations with owners, designers and builders, and really defining what everybody wanted. That's a metric of success. One of the big things that we saw in Ohio State was Ohio State didn't know what they didn't know, and neither did we on the design and construction side, right? It was it was a give and take of can we do this? Yes, can we do this? No. You know, there's a lot of outcomes that that these projects have that you can learn more about. 

Troy Gates  32:13

One of the vehicles that was also used in here was US CAD, as a technology and services partner, we were able to help do some of that founder, groundwork creation. So things like content, we've helped to build room templates so that they, the design team could use those over and over. So the design team and the owner would work on, on building the the groundwork of what that room would look like the equipment, casework, things like that, that would be in a room and how it would be used. And then us CAD helped build all of that as a BIM model. And then from there, they were able to iterate through that. And I believe they even showed it to some of the health care professionals so that they could feel what that space look like. And then again, iterated some more until it was a finalized kit of parts of multiple rooms that they could use in their design. And they didn't have to redesign those faces, because they were already through that process. So that alone, doing it up front is still being used years later, because it already is done. And then again, they just evolve it for each project. But they save time and money by using that kit of parts.

Nick Miller  33:38

One of the clients we're working with actually builds design build regularly. So as the services director, I kind of have a unique interaction with them, where they're building properties all around the world currently, what they've engaged with us to do is actually kind of help take all the designs that are coming in from the various engineering and architectural teams, and helping to coordinate those within each other as kind of a constructability review in the design phase, and kind of ensuring that what they're designing is actually going to work and as functional. And then as we get to a conclusion on that constructability review and make sure that those are all clash free. They're actually having us take those models and upgrade them from the LOD 300 that the design teams are producing to LOD 400 for fabrication, schooling and installation. What that's allowing them to do is get to a clash free model, and then engage the subcontractors to get bids at a point in time where they know that the design is relatively ready to go. Installation content is already and it's basically just we need to fabricate and install at that point. So that's really streamlined their process. It's eliminate a lot of back and forth and it certainly saves them a ton of money. When we're not waiting for you know a plumber to find an issue and then spend a month trying to get an RFI result with a design issue that could have been addressed upfront.

Troy Gates  35:00

So another example, is a large technology company that we've been working with for a number of years. And they, they took the approach of let's identify one part of the project first. And let's focus on that let's not go from start to end. And they focus their projects. First on, they're building a lot of data centers for themselves to host their technology. And the approach that they took was let's identify the the QA, QC, and commissioning portion of the project. And let's build out there first, so what do we need to have a successful handover during that portion of the project. And so they worked on identifying those set of guidelines, what data they needed. And after they were successful in implementing that, and they did use their design and build teams, then they were able to start pushing it forward into the project, and they started identifying, Alright, now let's work on the design portion of the rest of the project. And let's take what we've built and move it into that and they continued moving it until now all of their projects are done from start to end. And they have a good process, technology in place to work together as a team, and standards for you know, how the models are built, what kind of data they need. So you don't always have to do the entire project at once. You can say Alright, let's take a few projects, and let's build and focus on one area first, get success there, and then start expanding into the rest of the project.

Erin Looney  36:54

There's probably not a better trio of people to share their thoughts with us on a BIM standard and BDC done right than Troy, Nick and Brian, but this episode just scratches the surface of how BIM and VDC can enhance the success of design build projects. Now that our guests have gotten you excited about BIM and VDC and design build. It's a great time to register for the DBIA Design Build Conference and Expo November 1 and third in National Harbor, Maryland, and the VDC Leadership Exchange October 31. Go to dbia.org/conferences to learn more and register to join us. Thanks for listening to the design build delivers podcasts and thanks to us CAD, especially Nick and Troy today for their support. Learn more at uscad.com/dbia