Climate change and sustainability touch every corner of the news cycle and every corner of our lives – as they should. We're increasingly aware of how important it is to take action to mitigate the man-made impacts on the climate, and the built environment is taking stock of how to address climate change and increase sustainability. In this episode of the Design-Build Delivers Podcast, Molly Jones talks about Building Beautifully, her 2024 book that tackles how project delivery method impacts sustainability.
Guest:
Molly Jones, AIA, LEED AP, GGP, GPCP, DBIA
President, Jones Design Studio, PLLC
Access all our free design-build resources and learn more about Design-Build Done Right® at dbia.org.
DBIA members are shaping the future, one successful collaboration at a time.
Climate change and sustainability touch every corner of the news cycle and every corner of our lives – as they should. We're increasingly aware of how important it is to take action to mitigate the man-made impacts on the climate, and the built environment is taking stock of how to address climate change and increase sustainability. In this episode of the Design-Build Delivers Podcast, Molly Jones talks about Building Beautifully, her 2024 book that tackles how project delivery method impacts sustainability.
Guest:
Molly Jones, AIA, LEED AP, GGP, GPCP, DBIA
President, Jones Design Studio, PLLC
Access all our free design-build resources and learn more about Design-Build Done Right® at dbia.org.
DBIA members are shaping the future, one successful collaboration at a time.
Erin Looney 00:10
From warnings of uninhabitability to impact on mental health to how our beer and coffee and chocolate might be affected, climate change touches every corner of the news cycle and every corner of our lives as it should. We're increasingly aware of how important it is to take action to mitigate what we can and the built environment is taking stock of how to address climate change and increase sustainability. I am Erin Looney from the DBIA national headquarters. And this is the Design-Build Delivers podcast brought to you by USCAD.
Erin Looney 00:39
In this episode, Molly Jones talks about her upcoming book Building Beautifully and what it means in the discourse around climate change and construction, architecture and engineering with a focus on how the project delivery method impacts this vital issue. Molly is not only the author of Building Beautifully, she is an architect and she is an advocate. Molly has done everything from social media advocacy to TED Talks to stress the importance of sustainable building. But let's let Molly tell her story.
Erin Looney 01:13
So Molly, we've talked to you before on the Design-Build Delivers podcast, but for our listeners who haven't met you yet, and for me, since I'm still calling myself new. Talk to us about the path you've taken to your work today.
Molly Jones 01:26
I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me again, Erin. My path started – I'm a professional architect, have been since long ago. But my architecture career kind of came to a head when I got a call that my mother was in ICU and was not sure if she was going to survive or not. And I had been kind of dabbling a little bit in sustainability up until that time, but it was really that incident with my mother that led me to kind of commit to a new trajectory in my professional career that was really centered on sustainable design and construction. And so that incident, really did kind of set me on this path to where we are today, which is a path that is that I'm calling build beautifully. And that path is it's broader than just sustainability, right? My entry into sustainable design really was about indoor air quality. That was the issue my mother was faced with some poor indoor air quality, really complicated her COPD and put her into an exacerbation, which is why she ended up in ICU. Then I had the opportunity to start working on design-build projects.
Molly Jones 02:48
As a practitioner, I very quickly saw a nexus between sustainable design and the design-build project delivery method where if we're using the Design-Build Done Right® best practices that weren't – they didn't exist when I started. But the but the projects I was working on at least some of them were using them. And I saw a real direct correlation between those best practices and the ability for design teams to bring their very best in sustainable design to the table in a way that is far more collaborative, in my opinion, than other project delivery methods. I really saw it at an early time period, I will just say and probably about the early 2000s, early to mid 2000s, where design-build could help support more sustainable projects. So that's led me to where I am today. And in a nutshell. So today, we function as Owner Advisors. And what that does is it affords us the opportunity to help guide the development of RFQs and RFPs that will help produce opportunities for design-build teams to be able to bring their most innovative solutions forward in a sustainable way and create more sustainable projects, which then translates into more sustainable future for all of us.
Erin Looney 04:13
So sustainable architecture, it's not really new. As you've already said, this has been your path for many years, we could talk about this topic at length, from Frank Lloyd Wright's to Bob Berkebile, responses in the 1970s to the oil crisis, and so on and so on. The point is many people have tackled it to some extent over the last few decades. Even recently, in fact, in the New Yorker, there was a piece about a young Swedish architect Pavels Hedström, and his work centers on sustainability. But it's in this significantly more abstract space than your work because your work is not abstract. It's situated in how the delivery method chosen for a project can be key to addressing climate change in the built environment.
Erin Looney 04:56
So that brings us to Building Beautifully, your upcoming book, that tackles that relationship between project delivery selection and climate change outcomes. First question, How did you come to this place? What led you to write this book and why now?
Molly Jones 05:10
So I'm a reluctant author. But I do feel like I have a unique perspective just based on my expertise in sustainability, but also my expertise in design-build, and certainly my expertise as an Owner Advisor in the design-build world. And so really just kind of understanding that, that early decision about what project delivery method we use, and how it supports and to what level it supports, sustainable outcomes is really what really drove me to write this book. If we're watching the news at all, we know that pretty much on a daily basis, we're seeing things about articles and segments about the climate and what's happening in the climate. But we're also seeing things that are a little tertiary to that things like more famine, unrest, migration, that sort of thing. As I've kind of been looking at the climate science, I'm really realizing that there's a lot of climate issues that are the underlying factors or contributing factors, to a lot of the things that are happening today in our world. And it just became obvious to me that that was the time that this book really needed to come out so that those of us that are in the AEC industry, and Owners in particular can really understand how important those early decisions are, for setting their project up for success and sustainability.
Erin Looney 06:41
Now, let's talk about the title of the book, define what you mean in this context by building beautifully.
Molly Jones 06:48
So the whole concept of of build beautifully, is really built around three questions. And they're pretty general questions. But if you think about them, you'll come to some pretty unique answers for yourself and targeted answers. And the questions really are, why am I building? That's the first one. And the second one is, what am I building? And then the third one is, how will I choose to build? And this book is really centered on that third question about how am I choosing to build right, so in the book, we're making some assumptions about the why am I building and what am I building, although we do kind of cover some difference between building a new building from the ground up and modifying existing vertical construction projects. Some of these strategies also apply to horizontal construction as well, especially for new construction. But that really is what it centers around is just taking a very intentional and mindful, look at those questions and answering them honestly, as individuals and as groups and organizations to really understand why we're doing what we're doing. And and doing it in a much more intentional manner.
Erin Looney 08:04
There's a phrase, the theme, if you will, that has been popping up everywhere lately in the industry. It was in a few of the awards submissions that you hear. And it was in August podcast on GDC. It also is in your book, it's the title of a chapter. And the phrase is begin with the end in mind. So let's look at that. Let's revisit it again here and how it applies to sustainability.
Molly Jones 08:25
Yeah, so I think one of the things we were worth thinking about is really like where is the end to right? We want to begin with the end in mind. But we have to define what the end is. And the end is not the end of a 25 year lifecycle. Ideally, it's more of a 50 7500 year lifecycle. But it's not even then it's what happens after the building's useful life, right? How do we deconstruct or disassemble that building? And how do we deal with its components? Do we recycle them? Can we upcycle them? Can we reuse them in ways that are meaningful? So it's really thinking about beginning with the end in mind, for sure. But that end, really defining what that is and what that looks like. And then that's what feeds your goals and aspirations at the beginning of the project.
Erin Looney 09:13
So now thinking about the different players on a design-build team of what do you hope each of them the categories, not individuals necessarily get from your book.
Molly Jones 09:25
So this book really is targeted at Owners to help them understand because they are the ones that are held making that initial decision at the beginning of a project. But the secondary audience is also architects that usually are kind of the first at the table in a lot of projects. And so helping arm Owners and architects but mostly Owners with the information that they need to understand in a relatively unbiased way, the difference between the project delivery systems but then in biased way, my opinions about how the design-build project delivery method is very well suited for, for Owners that are ready to make that call, in some cases, a cultural and mindset shift, to be able to come over and utilize this project delivery system and use it and leverage it to get much more sustainable outcomes on their projects. So I'd say we're pretty laser focused on Owners with this book, because they're the ones making the decision. But because architects are the first in the room, it will be helpful for them as well, in some ways.
Erin Looney 10:37
And to some extent, it makes sense for everyone on a design-build team to understand what the Owners are doing when they set the standards and the expectations for the project. So while you're not saying that only Owners are going to get anything out of this book, you're saying that Owners are primarily the target for the book.
Molly Jones 10:54
It's also good for design-builders to to understand like the questions that we're encouraging Owners to take on as they're making that critical decision about project delivery method, because there are a lot of times where they're the first in two. So it really does kind of touch on everyone, right. But it is really centered on that owner and that Owners decision.
Erin Looney 11:16
Gotcha. And you mentioned this, that design-build is situated for improving sustainability in a meaningful way. So let's talk about that. How is design-build situated to improve sustainability.
Molly Jones 11:28
When you're working on a sustainable project, like the big, the big things that we really want to do is we want to get everybody at the table, we want to hear all the voices, we want to get buy in from everyone involved in the project. And that is inherent to the integrated nature of design-build, right, everyone's already at the table. So having those early conversations about sustainability in that context with everyone at the table, and everyone having a voice and everyone being heard, really just is a natural fit for sustainable outcomes. The other thing that I think is really, really important is that we really encourage innovation and creativity in the Design-Build team.
Molly Jones 12:15
And depending on the type of design-build, you use, the Owner is involved earlier in the actual design process, or maybe they're a little bit remote from that for a very early phase. But their involvement in it, they set the stage for it, right. So they're setting the goals, the overarching goals, and those goals are based on aspirational goals. And also some of them come out of risks. So if we've got a project that's in a sensitive area that really needs to address some resiliency, resilient issues, those get identified as risks that then translate into goals. And maybe those are baseline goals for a project. But maybe they're also aspirational goals. But the thing that I think is so helpful which design-build is just this real unleashing of the teams to be able to meet and support those goals and in a lot of cases, aspirational goals of the project. And that is what I think is so unique to design-build. And and is really the hallmark of why I believe that it's the best tool we have in our Project Delivery Toolbox today to help us deliver these sustainable projects.
Erin Looney 13:31
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Erin Looney 14:08
You've talked a little bit about multiple voices throughout the process. And we can't help but bring ourselves and our experiences to our work. And I think you've hinted at how that is part of the value. And if the voices are being heard, then there are more perspectives to consider. That makes sense. So what about research? What does research say about design-build and sustainable outcomes to support what you hear from those voices?
Molly Jones 14:33
So first of all, I'm just going to throw it out there that we need new research. We don't have a lot of it. And what we have is old. So there were a couple of studies that I have looked at and one of them was with the Charles Pankow foundation and DBIA and a few other folks involved or organizations involved in it. And in that study, they really the outcome was that more collaborative and integrative project delivery methods, we're seeing better outcomes from a sustainability standpoint. It was a relatively narrow study. And then the other one that I found was a study on three GSA courthouses to where design-build and other one was a construction management plus a few, borrowing a few strategies from the integrated project delivery model into it. And what that study found just very generally, was that they were seeing better outcomes from a sustainability standpoint.
Molly Jones 15:40
And in fact, the study says that the outcomes were really pointing towards the engagement of a more formal verification program after occupancy. So that first year of occupancy, which is kind of the warranty period that design-builders use and contractors generally, but really looking at enhancing and shoring that period up with some additional measurement techniques and strategies to make sure that buildings performing, they found very different results when they were doing that versus when they weren't. So that kind of goes back to this to this idea of really letting a building get burned in, right, you buy a car, I don't know if this is true for all cars, I haven't bought a car in a while. But when I bought my last car, they're like, you're gonna burn this in, you're gonna burn it in for 500 miles. And so you may see some quirks in the car until you get about 500 miles going. Well, buildings are no different buildings have many different systems, we really need to get them transition to stable operations, which takes a year to 18 months, if not 24 months, and really understand how these buildings are operating. And make sure that they're operating in the way that they were designed and intended to operate.
Molly Jones 17:01
So that was one of the things that GSA found in their study, you know, and then the other one was very similar what DBIA found, which was this design, build, collaborative and integrated project delivery method was really helpful in bringing about more sustainable outcomes and doing it in a way that really has everybody singing from the same hymnal so to speak.
Erin Looney 17:24
And have you found anything in your own research on climate change that you'd say is unexpected or particularly interesting?
Molly Jones 17:31
So that's a really interesting question, because what I found was looking at the research on, you know, how the global temperatures were being recorded every year. NASA has a had a graphic that came out that showed the world and a relative heatmap, year by year by year, which is really interesting little graphic. And then the World Economic Forum also had a graphic doing the same thing. It believed the World Economic Forum went back a little further than the NASA one did. But the World Economic Forum. And they showed it differently to they didn't show it on a map, they showed it on a circle with each of the 12 months around it. What jumped off the page at me was this heat that occurred in 1877, and 1878, like jumped off the page, and I was instantly mesmerized, like what the heck happened back then that cause the world to be so warm for two years.
Molly Jones 18:30
And what I found was that was a longing event that preceded it. And then it was followed by a severe El Nino effect. This severe El Niño event, took a drought event that had occurred in 1876, and made it much worse. So there were basically droughts occurring across the country. There were some a handful of countries that were impacted far more than others. And they call that the great drought. And I thought, My goodness, if that happened, then what were the outcomes of that. And what happened was there was the global famine that started in 1876, the end of 1876. And it went through 1878. Anywhere from 19 million to 50 million people lost their lives centered in a handful of countries. But due to this naturally occurring event and the research that was done on that and and some talks that were given after that by a researcher by the name of Deputy saying, she actually is really concerned about what could happen if these causes and conditions came about today. Then you rewind back into July and you realize this past year we moved from a non union into or into an El Niño. And so if something like that were to happen today, are we prepared as a not just a country but as a as a world and as humanity and the big question
Molly Jones 20:00
In my mind is could we see an event that is that catastrophic or even greater occurring in our modern times, that's based on a combination of naturally occurring climatic events and the manmade exacerbation of those events. And so that was really, really eye opening to me and, frankly, kind of just underscored and that this book needed to come out and needed to tell the story and that it was the right time.
Erin Looney 20:30
And so your, your hope, here related to that is that some of the concepts you put forth in the book that can help predict and prepare for something similar to that?
Molly Jones 20:43
yeah, just the buildings play a big role in the mitigation of climate change, right, we play a big role through energy reduction, responsible material choice water use. But we also play a huge role with carbon reduction. And it really underscored for me that we have an opportunity here to really step into this, and engage in more sustainable practices in the AEC industry, and build more sustainable buildings. And, and that that really can help move the needle, not just in one sector of the energy pie, but potentially in multiple sectors so and the greenhouse gas emissions will then follow that, and they'll reduce as well.
Erin Looney 21:25
So we've been talking about the book. And it sounds really fascinating to hear this perspective, but I don't want to spoil too much of what's in it. So you don't have to give away all your secrets here. When you picture a project that has taken into account, everything you're advocating for in the book, and in your work, what does that look like?
Molly Jones 21:43
In an ideal world, it looks like a project that is restorative and regenerative. That is energy producing rather than energy consuming, that is creating all of its own water, that is carbon neutral. So it's not adding carbon to the atmosphere. And, and it has a healthy interior environment, so people can live healthier lives. And those of us that may have compromised lung issues are actually better for being in that building than we would be otherwise. So that's what it looks like to me.
Erin Looney 22:19
So that goes back to what you said earlier about the impact on your mom, and how that sent you in this direction. Now, we're going to shift a little bit here to DBIA. As you know, and many of our listeners know, and for anyone listening who does not know, visit dbia.org DBIA has a plethora of resources for advancing design-build done, right. So in terms of climate change, sustainability and building beautifully, how can DBIA and our members help?
Molly Jones 22:47
I'm not a huge proponent of just like cutting edge design and and construction. I'm really a proponent of each project doing what it can, right. So I think, if everyone listening and everyone involved in the AEC world could just do what they could, we would be in a much different position with regards to mitigation of climate change, and that it wouldn't be quite so such a huge issue. So where we currently are, is we need to take action, we just can no longer wait. So I think if you haven't been engaged in sustainable design, you educate yourself on it, and you do what you can. And those of us that have been involved in it, we keep advocating for it and keep doing as much as we can. What that's that's feasible on these projects, and we begin to maybe ask some other questions like project lifecycle, can we move past? Whatever the current lifecycle is? And can we push that envelope a little bit and maybe get a longer life cycle the project and really think about how these projects and their components are used at the end of their useful life?
Molly Jones 24:01
So and then there's also like the consideration of just asking, does it make sense to build a new building right now? Or is there an existing building? who already has its embodied carbon wrapped up within the materials in that building? So you're adding much less embodied carbon to that project? Is that an option? Is there a building available that we could renovate and, and be able to use for the current use of the building that we're looking to build? So that's definitely a huge issue. We have a huge portfolio of existing projects in this country like everywhere you look around, it's if it's got a roof on it, and people are in it, it's existing so we can leverage those projects and really help change things because a lot of those buildings aren't going to go away. Right. So if we can repurpose them and reuse them, I think that that is a really good alternative for us.
Erin Looney 24:52
What comes to mind when you say that is sporting spaces, stadiums? We have so many of them. And, and it seems to me a lot of times, the first line of, I don't know, progress for a team for a club or league is let's build a new stadium. And from what you're saying it sounds like, maybe that isn't ideal in terms of sustainability. And in terms of longevity of the structures. So as a new building always right, in those cases?
Molly Jones 25:24
Well, I mean, I think you definitely have to weigh everything out, because there may be a new life for that facility if that team moves on. And there's always a balance that you're striking between the needs of that existing team, in this case for sporting events, and what that facility can support. But there may be other opportunities. So perhaps that facility support other sporting events, or maybe there's a way to re imagine it to be something else and become something else and and maybe even spur on new economic development in that area as a result. So I'm not going to say like yes or no.
Erin Looney 26:00
I often asked what was wrong with the existing stadium. But let's go back a little bit here to design-build teams, you talked about taking action a moment ago. So when we look at the people on design, build teams, particularly Owners, but not just Owners, what are some small scale goals that Owners and those other team members can aim for now.
Molly Jones 26:16
So I think that probably the smaller scale goals, which frankly, we'll just call them low hanging fruit, right? So really is looking at your building portfolio and look at your environmental and social governance, your ESG reports, or your sustainability reports, whatever it is that your organization is putting out. And likely it's both of those and and see where there is synergy between some goals that you can establish for your projects and how you can how those can support achievement of your goals as an organization. And really, I would start there and focus on those. And then obviously, if you look at what you can do at the micro level, at the project level, within the context of that project, and where it's located, to be able to look for like materials that you can procure, that are nearby, that their raw materials are nearby, they can be manufactured nearby, look at the carbon, embodied materials in everything that you're doing.
Molly Jones 27:36
And certainly reducing energy. And we talked about it in the book. But reducing energy really deals with one piece of the the greenhouse gas emission, pie, so to speak. So it deals with a certain percentage of that pie. But when you start to, like look at and this is the larger scale goal, which is carbon reduction, because that's kind of like the elephant in every room, every sustainability room right now. But if you're looking at carbon reduction, you're actually impacting the remainder of that pie. Right? So you're going beyond like the direct impact that energy efficiency can have on your building and opening that up to really impact other greenhouse gas emissions sectors. So like the transportation sector and the manufacturing sector instead of just the building sector, but look at what we can do that enhances our own organization, or agency or company goals that we have and that we're reporting on. And then the bigger one is, how do we opened that up and really deal with that elephant in the room, and carbon?
Erin Looney 28:40
And you anticipated the question. And that was exactly where we were headed. So we're gonna go to a little bit different place. This is kind of a bonus question before we come back to talking about the larger community. So what have you found throughout these years of doing what you do to be the most difficult part of your work?
Molly Jones 29:01
Yeah, I'm not sure that there's really a most difficult part like, so the nice thing is, I love what I do, right. So there's not really one part that's more difficult than the other. But I do think that when it comes to Owners, they have full time jobs. They're doing other things, right. So building a building is usually not their full time job. And so what we have found is that taking some time to really educate Owners on what's happening with the climate science, what's happening with sustainability, how it can impact their project and how it can improve their bottom line and their reporting is really time very well spent. So we we do like to do that with our with our clients and just and talk them through so that we can really set good aspirational goals for the project from a sustainability perspective. That's honestly why we're in this business. So we are Sustainability Consultants turned into Owner Advisors, so, it's not a difficult part of the business. But it is certainly, it's one that we enjoy is one that I think is really needed, because they're likely not science geeks like we are and watching what's going on in the world. So I think that they find that helpful to know that we're kind of watching that and can help them understand and navigate what's going on.
Erin Looney 30:22
It sounds like it's something that needs to be done, and isn't always the quickest conversation. But it's, it's necessary, I mean, to understand what you're doing, really helps you more emphatically want to do it. And so what we have is, so far, we've talked a lot about the teams, the design, build teams, the Owners, the people who are building the buildings, but what about everyone else, because the building doesn't just stand there and then do nothing. It impacts the community where it's located, facilities, whatever you're building actually is part of that community. So when we think more broadly, what can our listeners, industry professionals, or just users of facilities and buildings, what can they do to encourage a better focus on building beautifully? How can we all advocate for sustainable design in our corners of the planet?
Molly Jones 31:11
Well, I think, again, kind of just going back to doing what we can do. And looking beyond the building, I think that's really important, Aaron, that you brought that up, because really our buildings, I think it was Winston Churchill that said, first we shape our buildings, and then our buildings shape us. So really understanding the lasting impact that that building has, once it's in the world, and how that can actually help support human health, human happiness and mitigate climate change. Or in some cases, maybe work against those three things.
Molly Jones 31:42
And so really, this is all wrapped up and build beautifully. It's that real intentionality with what we do. And that mindfulness of our actions and really taking the time to think about every decision that we make, and we spend, what 85 85% of our 100% of the pie 85% of it goes to operations and maintenance of that building. So we're spending 15% of the entire cost of operating and maintaining that building, at the front of and at the design and construction. And it warrants taking a step back and really looking at those decisions that we're making. As we're designing and building these buildings. And I advocate that it takes a step, we take a further step back and look at how we're procuring these buildings and how we're delivering them. It impacts for the rest of the life of that building and impacts everyone around that building the people in the building. And then of course, what happens with the building at the end of its useful life. So I think I'm a big advocate of not taking the first step back, right, but taking the second step back, like we really look at how we're going to spend that 15% How we're going to procure that building, and how we're going to set the team up for success. So it sets you up for success as an Owner.
Erin Looney 33:02
And also, you've touched on this a little bit about just kind of the heart of this question with your Winston Churchill quote, first we build our buildings, and then our buildings build us. To some extent that New Yorker article I mentioned, part of his focus is to blur the line between those spaces we build in the spaces that exist. So instead of mowing down nature, for our purposes, it's more like sharing our purposes with nature and sharing nature's purposes with us, which is, I guess, I'd say possibly a little bit crunchy way of what you're saying right now. But it seems the ultimate goal, crunchy or not, is to make everything exist in harmony and do less damage. Ideally, of course, no damage, but I'd say less might be a good goal.
Molly Jones 33:44
I think it's a do no harm. Like it's not it's not less harm, in my opinion, it's really let's move towards doing no harm with our buildings and letting them live in harmony and synergy with their surroundings, whatever those surroundings may be. And let's find ways to use our incredible minds, to put things to put our buildings together in ways that really help enhance that harmony and synergy between ourselves as people, our buildings that support our activities, and then the natural surroundings that they're in.
Erin Looney 34:26
Let's go ahead and wrap this up. We're going to end this episode with an exercise for lack of a better way to say it. As you're walking out of a conference. Let's just make it a DBIA conference of course, and someone asks you Hey, Molly, what is building beautifully about now you have just about the length of a soccer pitch and it's about 100 yards give or take before you lose this person to their ride share what what do you tell them?
Molly Jones 34:56
I tell them building beautifully is really about embrace facing the future for our children and grandchildren, and mindfully and intentionally taking action today with everything that we do to help them have the best future possible. So that took about 10 yards.
Erin Looney 35:16
Now they have 90 plus yards to ask questions.
Molly Jones 35:18
Yes.
Erin Looney 35:23
And I'm sure one of those questions they would have would be when and where can I get building beautifully? The answer is first quarter of 2024. And in the DBIA bookstore, we will let you know when it's ready for purchase at store.dbia.org. Thank you to Molly Jones for an enlightening preview of Building Beautifully and a great conversation about sustainability in the built environment. And thanks to our Design-Build Delivers podcast sponsors USCAD. Learn more at uscad.com/dbia