Tackling State Design-Build Legislation with Marianne O'Brien (Jan '24 Bonus Content Episode)

Sometimes, our chats with podcast guests go long, dive into some deep stuff or – every so often – get a little weird. The topics we discuss are also multifaceted and can only go so far in a single episode, so we’re introducing a new way to bring you some of the better content that ends up on the cutting room floor. 

In the January episode titled “Tackling State Design-Build Legislation: California’s PDB Bill as a Starting Point,” we spoke with Brandon Dekker (Cannon Design), Chris Sullivan (Sundt Construction), Marianne O’Brien (SmithGroup) and Beau Biller (Platinum Advisors) regarding SB 706 in California. While we've previously covered this 2023 bill's expansion of PDB authority, the podcast episode went further into understanding how their successful efforts in the DBIA-Western Pacific Region could serve as a blueprint for success nationwide. The episode also unveiled the updated State Statute Report and generated anticipation for the upcoming release of DBIA’s Model Legislation.

Regrettably, we couldn't fit all of Marianne's great stories into the episode. Enter Bonus Content, where this extended interview with O'Brien gives a little exciting behind-the-scenes look at working with the California State Assembly.

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Transcript

Erin Looney  00:09

Welcome to the first ever Design-Build Delivers podcast Bonus Content. Sometimes our chats with guests go long, dive into some deep stuff or every so often just get a little weird. The topics we discussed are also multifaceted and can only go so far in a single episode. So we're introducing bonus content minisodes so we can bring you some of the better material that ends up on the cutting room floor the first time around. Now we may or may not have bonus content from episode to episode but when we do you, our Design-Build Delivers Podcast listeners, will be the first to know. In January, SmithGroup’s Marianne O'Brien talked to us about SB 706. In California, a bill passed last year that expanded the use of progressive design-build for state and local agencies. Marianne did a great job answering the question, why is a PDB bill even worth pursuing. But what you didn't hear were some of her stories about what it was like in the trenches at the California State Assembly. I am Erin Looney, and again, welcome to the first ever Design-Build Delivers Podcast Bonus Content brought to you by USCAD.

Erin Looney  01:22

Now, Marianne, let me preface this with anytime we talk about progressive design-build, people pay attention, we actually have a blog post from 2016, that still comes up as one of our highest viewed posts every month, our conference sessions or webinars, podcasts. Anything that focuses on PDB always makes a great impression. And SB 706 was about California's authority to use PDB in state and local projects. And in fact, one more connection, our 2023 Project of the Year winner, the 1021 Oh street State Office Building was a California based PDB project. So that kind of just begs the question, right? Why is PDB such a hot button issue? Why is it important to the design and construction industry? Overall,

Marianne O'Brien  02:10

it boils down to a few factors, that it's perceived as an incredibly fair, innovative, efficient and customizable process. So if we were to break that down, point, by point, it's fair, because all the parties in the process, have a reasonable assurance of payment for the intellectual property delivered and the product delivered. It's innovative, because it brings the latest techniques and construction forward into the design process. So it's factored in right from the start, all these bright minds come together. And it's efficient, because those construction processes come into the design process. So that what's drawn what's agreed to initially really don't have to be reworked later in terms of shop drawings, they can carry forward all the way through because those construction techniques are factored into what's drawn right from the start. And so to take a look at customizable, the process allows for the parties to take a detour, if something comes up, that's really important and go explore that, as part of the process. It's not already set in stone, with metrics and criteria, they can go explore that. And in the end, it allows that product to be incredibly tailored to the owner and the stakeholders that we'll be using that facility. So hearing all of that and knowing all of that the board decided that it was important to listen to our members and you know, provide the best value for them. And we could collect all these voices of why this was important and speak with a collective voice, it would resonate more, and so it was worth making the investment. So that's why we did it. That's why fundamentally, you know, it was important and why the board decided to move forward. 

Erin Looney  04:21

Okay, so obviously, though nothing is perfect. What we've been talking about so far has been success, success, success, you know, steps that worked, ideas that worked, the importance of investing in something that works, but can you talk about some of the obstacles you encountered while working on SB 706? 

Marianne O'Brien  04:42

Sure, Brandon and Chris mentioned a few but I think if I were to summarize it into one, the biggest impediment was the fear of failure. As we were sitting and considering this at the board level. There was a concern that prior legislation had And hampered by concerns from some labor groups. But ultimately, and if we'd have stopped there and given up, you know, there was a good deal of discussion, we would never have been able to achieve success. So really it was, if we don't try, how will we know that this impediment still exists, or it exists in the same way, or for the same reasons. And so we went ahead and move forward. And I do have to, you know, kind of laugh and think about that was a big impediment. But there were some small impediments along the way. And one of those was that we almost missed the very first and most critical Senate committee hearing. We were slated to be up to testify much later in the dockets. And because we had a good guide with us, who knew not just the steps, but the procedure, Bo biller and platinum advisors. He was watching what was going on, and we weren't supposed to be on for another 45 minutes or hour and he was watching what was proceeding and we found out we had to be up immediately they had started and they had called us. And we were like three floors away had just ordered coffee, we dropped everything, literally dropped everything coats coffee, and ran down. Three flights of stairs blew open the doors of the room. I saw Brandon digging for the pre written speech, and I had to buy us time because we've been called. So I ran to the front of the room, out of breath, not knowing where I was supposed to stand. It was not my most glorious moment, I will say that. But I did buy us enough time for Brandon, with a prepared speech to get up in front of the room. And so you know, the message there is to really be early, be present, have a guide, have a backup plan? Don't let perceived challenges be in the way try try whatever it takes.

Erin Looney  07:13

We've been hyping up Beau quite a bit. Was he able to offer you prior to really getting into the the meat of this process? Was he able to say hey, here are some things that you may run into? And here's how to handle it? Or did he just kind of let you learn on your own?

Marianne O'Brien  07:30

Oh, no, absolutely, he provided that guide. And, you know, kind of identified some of those points. And some of those agencies that might step forward, and really was able to navigate around that he was able to guide us through both in the Senate and in the house, really how to navigate through all of that and through all of the other potential voices that might come forward in the process.

Erin Looney  07:58

So the best part of successful and let's be real, even on successful legislative efforts, is being able to do sort of that hands on to learn that type of thing. So, you know, if you don't have bow on hand, going through the process allows you to see it and anticipate it next time. And to find out what works, what doesn't work to get a bill passed, or in some cases, like a Virginia bill that's looking to prohibit the use of design-build to get it squashed. What are a couple of the big lessons you learned? And how do you recommend other regions apply such lessons going forward? 

Marianne O'Brien  08:36

Well, I think the biggest lesson learned is to have a guide, whether or not it's you know, obviously, we would advise a professional advisor. But if a region can't afford a professional advisor, talk to somebody who's gotten a bill through in recent history, and develop a cohort like Brandon and Chris talked about, to really help understand the challenges, the advantages, and be able to articulate those clearly and effectively when the time comes to speak, to support that potential bill being passed. And know the individuals, there maybe members of the constituency that know a specific senator or legislator and try and do pre work with them ahead of time to know what their concerns and considerations are, because we did do that. And we did have that guide to do that. So I think those are some really important things that would apply, no matter what state is trying to achieve some legislation relative to design-build, or more specifically, progressive design-build

Erin Looney  10:01

In our December episode DBIA, CEO and executive director Lisa Washington talked about the importance of a state legislation playbook being scalable, enter the state statute report and model legislation, right. And as Chris mentioned, building scalable resources avoids losing valuable time having to start over every time there's a new bill to advance. So the goal is for these resources and your experience in California to be helpful in any state that's working on design-build legislation, but all regions, all states are not created equal. We keep saying that in this episode, and it's that important. Can you talk a little about that scalability with the playbook that Western Pacific has put together and the resources from national and how that might be useful to let's say, Iowa,

Marianne O'Brien  10:49

California is one of the most complicated states. That's why this was such a challenge, when we have charter cities, for example. So it's not like, we have one law that will sweep across the state and create broad legislation that allows applicability across the state, charter cities can do whatever they want. And that may be one of our next steps as a board. So while Iowa doesn't have it, for instance, I wouldn't necessarily say it's more complex there because they don't have it, it might be maybe a more simple approach, that could be a more sweeping effort, it might take one bill that gives broad base legislative authority to the state, the processes would still be the same, because every state government at a certain level with a house in the Senate is set up in a similar fashion. And it would take the same kind of effort to get it through. So it's helpful to know what legislation does exist, what needs to be overcome. And this is where national comes in. And it's so important. I think Brandon and Chris did mention for us, that's our next step. We are region of multiple states, that while we focused on California, we need to know and we don't know right now, if and how we can help Nevada or Arizona or Hawaii. So that clarity that national will bring forward will be incredibly helpful, not just to the Western Pacific region, but to all the other regions and all the other states to build that understanding. So I think it is very scalable, even if a state hasn't started in there to without design belt, legislation or authority.

Erin Looney  12:45

Look for more Design-Build Delivers bonus content from the January episode and throughout the year by following us on social media at DBIA. National and subscribing to our podcast on the app of your choosing. Thanks to us CAD for sponsoring the Design-Build Delivers podcast, Learn more at us cad.com/dbia