What is a big gorgeous goal?
Join us in an honest conversation with executive coach, entrepreneur, speaker and trainer, Julie Ellis (she/her) as we explore questions at the heart of growth and unlocking potential, specifically for female-founded companies and leaders.
Julie Ellis is an executive coach to corporate leaders and scaling entrepreneurs. Her unique experience and expertise stems from twenty-five years of working first in the corporate world and then as a leading Canadian entrepreneur. She is a co-founder of the award-winning company Mabel’s Labels, one of Canada’s greatest small-business success stories.
In 2022, Julie released her book: Big Gorgeous Goals: How Bold Women Achieve Great Things. BWB supported the book launch through visual branding and strategic counsel, and were elated when Julie asked if the Questions to Hold card deck could be featured in book gift and influencer boxes.
In this episode/conversation you’ll hear:
Connect with Julie
Connect with BWB
Be sure to subscribe on Apple or Spotify, and leave us a 5-star rating + review!
Podcast Song: Holding you by Prigida
Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
https://uppbeat.io/t/prigida/holding-you
License code: CELWR55ONTDIFRSS
What is a big gorgeous goal?
Join us in an honest conversation with executive coach, entrepreneur, speaker and trainer, Julie Ellis (she/her) as we explore questions at the heart of growth and unlocking potential, specifically for female-founded companies and leaders.
Julie Ellis is an executive coach to corporate leaders and scaling entrepreneurs. Her unique experience and expertise stems from twenty-five years of working first in the corporate world and then as a leading Canadian entrepreneur. She is a co-founder of the award-winning company Mabel’s Labels, one of Canada’s greatest small-business success stories.
In 2022, Julie released her book: Big Gorgeous Goals: How Bold Women Achieve Great Things. BWB supported the book launch through visual branding and strategic counsel, and were elated when Julie asked if the Questions to Hold card deck could be featured in book gift and influencer boxes.
In this episode/conversation you’ll hear:
Connect with Julie
Connect with BWB
Be sure to subscribe on Apple or Spotify, and leave us a 5-star rating + review!
Podcast Song: Holding you by Prigida
Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
https://uppbeat.io/t/prigida/holding-you
License code: CELWR55ONTDIFRSS
CASEY: Welcome to the Questions to Hold podcast. I'm your host and BWB founder, Casey Carroll. In a world that often praises answers over questions, the act of holding a question is an act of resistance, presence, and devotion. In this podcast, I hold space for discussion at the intersection of life's biggest questions and our personal and professional worlds.
These are honest conversations with progressive leaders dedicated to questioning our institutions, igniting change, and provoking new possibilities.
Join me for my next discussion.
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CASEY: Hello everyone and welcome to Questions to Hold. Today we have a super special guest and just a woman I am so grateful to generally know about existing in the world and then have gotten to know and can call a friend and a colleague at this point, Julie Ellis. Julie has an amazing career and a new book out that she's gonna be talking about today, but before I jump too far ahead, Julie, I'm gonna kick it over to you to just introduce yourself to the listeners in whatever way feels true for you in the moment you know who you are, any identifiers you use, um, and anything that's good context for our conversation today.
JULIE: So I always feel like I've had this super eclectic path in getting to where I am. My university degree is in dance. I then had a corporate career as a financial planner, founded a business, um, called Mabel’s Labels that makes personalized name labels for kids that are super durable and cute. And we grew that from a basement startup to a big celebrity following and tons of media coverage. And one day Avery Labels phoned us and said, have you ever thought about selling your business? And although the business wasn't for sale, we were at a crossroads of what the next level looked like. And so we eventually actually fairly quickly sold the business to them. And for me, that's, although that journey was a lot in itself, it started a new journey for me where I went out into the world and wasn't sure what to do with myself afterwards and, you know, sort of became entangled in a little bit of a grief, gratitude cycle of, you know, how do you achieve the entrepreneurial dream for which you want to be very grateful and at the same time grieve the loss of your business. And it numbed me and knotted me up and stalled me for a period of time. I eventually went and ran a business for another guy, and as I came out of that, what I realized, I didn't actually wanna work for somebody else. And so that started really shaping, I think going and becoming certified as a coach and starting to talk about my experience as a growth mentor in a women's accelerator program. All of a sudden I was like, oh. There's a story here that people wanna hear. So I started to figure out this entanglement piece, and the workshop became a keynote, and I went and did some speaker training for the keynote, and then the keynote turned into a book. And so I, I always say like, you know, I never planned to write a book. I kind of backed into it. But I met, I keep meeting really amazing people along the journey and they keep pointing me at things that, they're not telling me what to do, but it's like the, you know, they're showing me the more doors that I could open and walk through. That's what I think is interesting. So, um, then of course, The book, you know, I went to Page Two to publish the book. That's how I met you and you've helped me with my brand and all of the other things that go along with that. So I think, you know, it's about people that we meet and the doors they show you that are available to you. And so that for me is the interesting part, I think of the journey I'm on.
CASEY: Yeah. Well, and we'll talk about the book a little bit more. It's called Big Gorgeous Goals just to name, cuz I think it kind of wraps into so much of what we're talking about. But that's so cool that you went to school for dance. I did not know that. I'm learning something new in the first minute of this, which is like, I love that we talk a lot about just, there's like all these multi-hyphen ways, our life, you know, and our different identities and all these different pieces of ourself and some of which get picked up by the media and told over and over again, or they become part of our narrative that we tell over and over and over again. Yeah, but then there's like all these other parts, like, you know, doing an academic study in dance that's like, oh, you know, maybe less told, but somehow woven into all the work as well. So it's just so cool to, to learn that about you. Now I can see you like on a stage, you know, with Big Gorgeous Goals, like doing a little dance and bringing it all together somehow. Well, I love, I'm so glad you're talking to us today because I, I know I've named this to you before, but I love like the story of kind of backing into writing a book and having Mabel's Labels and, and selling it, and then like moving into your career and for so many of the people that I work with through BWB, but also just in my own coaching and fellow entrepreneurs, I know there is this huge guiding question of like, how do we stay on that edge of the comfort zone? Like I know you were talking about where it's like, you know, we're kind of, we get our ideas, we're inspired, we build them, and it can feel possible to just stay in those kinds of, places, you know, and kind of hum along. Yeah. And there's not necessarily anything wrong with that, but for many people there's this drive of like keeping going forward and Big Gorgeous Goals, the book talks a lot about this, right? It's kind of like the culmination of it, but I'm just curious, like what have you learned or how have you really engaged with that question of staying on your comfort zone to continue growing and learning and, and you know, not just. What tools have you used, but like who and what resources have like made that really be possible for you over the last few?
JULIE: So I think it is for me a lot about people as the resources, right? Like, so some of those people are like, you hire a coach, and so some of them are, or an advisor or somebody who has expertise to help you do something, right? So those people are paid. And then you have people who are mentors who come in and out of your life regularly, sporadically from time to time. Like it could be, you know, a variety of different things, it looks like. And then you may have a group of closer people who are really kind of attuned to what you're doing. I call mine my Privy Council and they're, you know, a group of women who like really believe in me. And so, and see the possibilities within me. So, you know, when I'm stuck, when I'm, you know, not sure, even when I'm really sure, like whatever it is that I need from them, they're there as as resources and sounding boards for me always.
CASEY: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And how do you know, like for example, a lot of times we'll hear folks be like, well, I'm not sure if I am ready to invest, or how did you know to like invest in some of those resources for yourself?
JULIE: Again, like you said, either coaches or mentors or advisors to really push and identify, cuz that in and of itself, I think is a step towards getting out of the comfort zone.
CASEY: It is. It is.
JULIE: And I think it's that piece of like finding a balance between having those resources but not like, over not overusing them in that you still need frameworks that help you with things like decision making. For example, like you can avoid making a decision forever by just continuing to consult people on your what, what you should do, right? And so where are you gonna cut it off? And how are you gonna make a decision? What are you gonna do about that? So I think there is like, also you've gotta figure out where the right amount of that kind of consultation is, and the right people even because if you need subject matter expertise then you've gotta find the right person to give you advice on that. It's where the other people in your world might help you, though. They might know somebody, they might, you know, all of those pieces, cuz I believe really strongly in that, and that's a big piece. The network that I have is, you know, if you need somebody and I know somebody, how can I introduce you? And so like building that kind of collaborative, um, network around you for helping each other. So I think of each other like this, you know, deeper cultivation of a growth mindset essentially?
CASEY: Or within your own self. Like a growth behavior of like, okay. Yeah. You know, I have the emotional intelligence to know what I need in these situations. I have the frameworks, I have the resources, but again, there's like that you've gotta kind of– or I'll use, I, I know for myself, I need to really calm myself into making sure I'm in that growth space all the time.
And you know, now that I've cultivated that, that's just how I am, that's how I interact with the world. It's not, yeah, something new. But yeah, I hear that and I, I think of that too, you know, just like when Avery's Labels approached you, and I'm sure there is that willingness to identify, oh, we weren't necessarily looking for this and yet this might be where we are going next or where we need to go. And I think just having that awareness around the comfort zone and what's needed and all those pieces as you're naming, is what keeps us growing and learning wherever we go after some of those bigger milestones in our life career.
JULIE: Yeah, and I think, you know, one of the challenges of where I am right now is that, you know, at Mabel’s Labels I had co-founders, so we could sit around the table and be like, no, we should do this. And somebody would be like, ah!, and you know, to get, we had each other to propel us forward. But you know, now I'm in a place where I'm, you know, doing it on my own. And so how do you build resources around you that can help you do it? Because it's harder to do it on your own when you're always on the leading edge of, huh, this scares me. And so, you know, how do you, how do you keep pushing for that? And you know, I also need to learn to, you know, realize that as I sit on the edge and judge myself for all the things I am not doing or not getting to, or, you know, I also need to be able to say, oh wait, but I did these six things. So even though there's like 48 things that are still on the list of things I think I should be doing, you know where, what's important, like am I prioritizing the 48 and biting off a couple of the most important ones and adding them to the things I did? Because you can convince yourself that you're not good enough in terms of what you're doing either, you know, you feel like you're in the middle of an ocean trying to boil it all kind of thing. And so it's also about reflecting on what you did. And figuring out, you know, what you thought was most important, maybe needs to go down the list and you need to kind of reorganize how you're gonna go forward.
CASEY: Yeah. Well, and anybody that has worked with BWB knows how we feel about those shoulds. Um, which is, we feel, you know, actually I'll say, oftentimes we'll do that exercise where we do get to put our shoulds out in front of us so we know what they are. Because a lot of times there is wisdom in them, as you said, of like knowing when to prioritize what they're driving us to really getting intimate with them. But there's also like old tracks that are running through those as well that are not absolutely and being able to tease that out and then, as you said, kind of take the, the bigger step back and look all, look at it, you know, more, and at what point do you take something that's been sitting like in the parking lot for every time you prioritize the list it goes back there. It parks again. You know? At what point do you let yourself just say, I'm not gonna do this? You know, because, because we're also reluctant to let go of something that like might be right. And maybe it'll come back someday and it'll be a priority and then you'll do it. But even sometimes having them sit there just makes us feel like unworthy or like we're not getting the things we should be. We're carrying a lot of stagnant or stuck energy with us that we don't need to be ushering along.
JULIE: Yeah, we can move it.
CASEY: Exactly. I'd love to just talk a little bit about where you are at with like your work with women as an executive, as a leadership coach, and also just like what really kind of inspired the Big Gorgeous Goals book launch, as you said, you kind of like backed into it and those kinds of pieces. But how are those two things really coming together for what I see of like supporting women leaders and really like pushing the envelope here in terms of what's possible for them with growth and getting out of the comfort zone?
JULIE: Well, I think we all know. We come to this differently than men. We, you know, women and women identifying founders are wearing more hats. We are doing more things. We are, you know, trying to keep all the juggling balls up in the air in a way that men don't. You know, there's studies that show women applied for jobs at a hundred percent of qualifications and men apply at 60. Like, we also cut ourselves off. We're we, we are exacting and demanding of ourselves. And so, you know, I'm quite typical in that sense, really. I think, you know, the work in the book was about realizing my story wasn't. Unique to me and that it had value in the world. And then adding to that with interviews of 16 other women who have done great things in their careers and learning about them more. You know, I think in this era of like social media and little videos and photographs of people's highlight reels of their life, we are seeing, you know, if you think of the iceberg, we are seeing the 10% that sits above the water. We're not seeing the actual, I got here and did this. You know, it speaks nothing to the blood, sweat, and tears that went into, you know, and the, and the people that supported, and the systems and the processes and all the things that are underneath the water that we don't always talk about.
CASEY: So I'm curious, like in your interviews and in everything that's in the book, what are you really hearing about, you know, from, you know, other women in terms of this like comfort zone piece? Just in general of like what it is like to pursue a big goal and how to continue to do that as kind of like a, A practice, a life practice, if you will. Yeah. Your professional practice, but a life practice.
JULIE: The thing I found that was interesting is that I had a range of people from people who are more systemizers or operations wizards to people who are super high visionary, big picture people, and inevitably, Everybody saw the same ingredients as necessary, and that's I found really interesting, which is, you know, it's about having a structure underneath you to support you chasing the goals. You know, if you are a working mom, you know, is it, how are things structured at home? Do you have the help you need? Is it, you know, that you can effectively delegate to your team at work? Is it that you have good decision making capability and, and a clear process for that? Is it that you have the right mentors and advisors in place, you know, and all of these things, people, system, process. Inevitably, those were the things that everybody could agree, whether they could do them, or they were such a high visionary they knew they were needed, they knew they needed the network and support the people who could build the network and support knew they also needed that to go for the big goals. So it was really interesting to me to see those two kinds of different people come together in terms of how they saw the process.
CASEY: Yeah. And I know a lot of what, you know, we talked about in our work together too, which is like breaking open the box, like going to the big gorgeous goal being like the way big one way outside of the box. And so I'm curious how our goals or what you were finding in terms of the goals being entangled with maybe more norm or standardized goals in those ways and how to kind of slot some of that off to really like go for imagine and dream into something that maybe was like wild or defies the standard or you know, just stretches into what could be some new possibilities.
JULIE: So yes, creating, creating space for that to happen as well as sort of allowing to let new things in, you have to say no to some of the old things. And so how are you gonna prioritize your time and say no to things to give you more open space really, because it's sort of about like dreaming. Figuring out where you wanna go, that looks like something, something you probably feel like you've kind of got no business wanting to do. Like I always think it's on that edge of like, you know, you're missing something. You can't just do it. You're missing money, you're missing people, you're missing skills. You're, you know, there's something missing in this thing that you want. And so then it's about, you know, how do you start getting there? Because the other thing I learned is that nobody can look at the great, great big thing and start working towards that. Like you've gotta, at some point you have to like stop looking at the top of the mountain and put your head down and start climbing. And so some of them might look like regular old goals, you know, that you check off a list and cross things off and to do list tasks, but they're all in service of that big picture.
CASEY: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Also, very, um, can personally relate to that in some ways right now, just like that edge and where to discern. I mean, because what I hear you're talking about too is this, also cultivating a sense of discernment in ourselves around some of these pieces. Which is like, you know, for myself and my experience that I'm naming, there's this piece where I'm right on the edge of something. It feels uncomfortable. It's like, who? What's your business going into that? You know, all of that is like activated. So I know I'm onto something and yet there's also something I need to be listening about that maybe a skill I don't have or something I need to be really mindful of and how my identity's intersecting in the work that I'm needing to be doing, et cetera. So I just think it's like this level of discernment of like, okay, I can push, I have the structure I need to push, and what of, you know, some of those hesitations is actually. A guide for, you know, where the goal is ultimately gonna take me. Yeah, I think that's true. In the book, do you provide–now I'm like, I need to know, uh, asking for a friend, one of those kinds of things. I'm like, so in the book, do you give, I know you give kind of like practical tools as well as the summer, like larger inspirational storytelling, but what just like tool practical kind of application tool have you found to be really most useful in like, going from looking and gazing up at the big mountain to like getting down and starting to climb, you know, in that way?
JULIE: One of the things that's true about a big, gorgeous goal is, it's not necessarily a destination. I feel like it's like the, this thing that's big. Yeah. And, and so the path to it might look a little bit different than you may think in the beginning. So I think it's about starting to break down the first pieces and being able to start walking, right? Like, you know, you gotta walk first, you know, all of those things.
CASEY: Mm-hmm.
JILIE: You can't just, you probably can't see the map all the way to it in the beginning. So you start creating the map, and then I think it's about having a process to check back in with yourself. So, you know, do you have a quarterly, half a day that you're setting aside to come back and say, Hey, there was the big goal, here were the steps. How am I doing? Is the goal shifting at all? Like, are things shaping up, you know? Like that sort of thing. Yeah. And so then how do you kind of go from there as you’re making those adjustments and breaking it into those small pieces.
CASEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That makes perfect sense. I, I think to me, you know, I was sharing this before we got on, but that's where I love kind of the platform of big, gorgeous goals and how it intersects a little bit with this idea of like, holding questions or this practice because Yeah, there is no linear, it's not like you're like, here's the big gorgeous goal and here's step A through Z that's gonna take me there.You know, and I'll be there in three years, two months, and one day. Exactly. And there's a, there, whatever that is. You know, because it's actually the, this can sound so cliche, but it's just the truth of the matter, which is it's the journey and along the journey it's gonna shift. And there, you know, you're gonna have different guidance and getting to the goal is not about getting to the goal, it's about the path, um, and all that's unfolding towards it. Yeah. So that makes a lot of sense to me. I think we can get lost in that cuz, or a lot of folks, myself included, who wanna like know if it's working or look at the metrics of it and am I making progress? What's, you know, how's it all performing? Yeah. Need to really remember this non-linear growth component of it.
JULIE: Yeah. And I think there's also the growth component of like, as you start leveling, you also get resistance, right? Mm-hmm. Like, things, like, okay, so I thought I was doing a workshop and then it was a keynote, and now I've got a book that's out there in the world. So all of a sudden I'm in this arena with authors where I'm, you know, meeting people. I'm trying to meet them so some of it's deliberate, some of it's the places I'm putting myself. Some of it, you know, but all of a sudden I'm meeting people and you start to get this. Oh, everybody's written a book. My tiny little book. Like, oh, I, you know, and then, and then you see other groups of people and they're like, you wrote a book! Oh my God! And so there's this like, you know, you also have to sort of like give yourself context. You're in those weeds of looking at this arena you're sitting in of only authors and feeling like, I should have done this before I wrote the book, and I should have done this, this, and this. Because then I might be, you know, have whatever, more followers or more, you know, like this person and, and you've gotta like lift yourself up out of those places where you're doing that sort of comparison too, right? Because it's also, you take yourself from being in a, in a one size pond and you end up in another size pond and you feel like its lots of a fish once you get there.
CASEY: Yeah. Yeah. How do you find, I think this is something I deal with a lot of folks that are listening are gonna deal with, of this sense of like always being behind, like we talked about or mentioned a little bit earlier too, like what have you used to kind of like get out of that comparison or get out of like, oh, if I'd only done this, or look at her, she's done this and this is why her platform's X how like literally very practically do you use to kind of get out of that?
To me, that's a drain mindset, right? That's like never going to get us anywhere. So I'm just curious what you've used over the years to kind of move past that “I'm behind” narrative that could be there.
JULIE: I think that that's part of that quarterly check-in, right? Like I, you know, when you spend that time with yourself, it's the, okay, what happened? What's in the past and where am I going? What's next? Right? But you have to include that, look back and you know, sometimes, like I sort of learned as the book came out and it got really, really busy and a lot of things were happening that I actually needed more than a quarterly back and forward because, you know, I got to a point where I was like, oh, I've got these six really big things and about a million other smaller things that I just aren't getting to. I don't have time. I'm, I'm so stretched for time right now. But then, you know, then I was in a meeting and I was like, well, I've done, you know, this, this, this, this, this, this, this. But, but I have these, you know, and, but I was sort of prefacing it with, well, I'm really disappointed in myself because I'm not getting you know, six things, but then when I started to like actually list out what I had done, there were a lot of things and they were big. And so, you know, that was an example where like, even though it had been sort of nine or 10 weeks since I'd had that check in, it was too long at that point. And I was feeling kind of defeated when really I should have been like, okay, this is, you know, not the end of the world. I got done the things that were the most time sensitive, the most important, and the things I needed. No. Have I done as much as I wanted to? No. Will that always be the case? Probably. You know, like, you know my expectations when, when you don't know something and you have to like figure it out, find an expert, or learn how to do it yourself, like all of that takes time.
CASEY: Yeah. Yeah, and I think also to add to what you're saying, it's important to also remember we're not just what has been done or what we're doing, that like kind of the lie of production or of our only value or merit being in what's been done and what we've produced and kind of putting our worth up against that, or the value of the company, et cetera. Whatever the project ideas you're meeting, and remember that sometimes it's like, who did you have to become? What are you in the works of doing in those moments that aren't as easily quantifiable in all those ways, or did you need to rest? Did you have a parent get sick that you needed to be with? And how did you stay committed to your vision and make a whole bunch of room for, for life for that on the other scale?
JULIE: Yeah. One of the other things I thought about in that time also where so many things were happening and I was, you know, when I wrote the book, I used a sticky note wall of the, you know, the stories and the lessons and the different categories of content that I was pulling together. And, you know, then you could kind of move them around of like, what do I want in chapter one? What stories fit? What, what are the lessons for chapter one? And you know, kind of work your way through and something like that. Sometimes when you have a lot on it’s useful too, like especially if you're a visual person because you really, you're like, okay, I'm moving this over here, you know, or, or a Trello board or somewhere where you can get that, whether it's digital or physical, but that visual representation of, oh, I actually did a lot. And yes, I have a lot that I want to do, but it's not like I'm sitting around doing.
CASEY: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
JULIE: And I, again, just like learning how to carry our desire for what we wanna do and not feeling like burdened by it, but like, okay, there's all this wanna do. I'm excited and I've made this progress so far. And also where does that fit with, I'm still doing work that's actually, you know, maybe making me money and I'm still looking after my family and I'm still like all of those other parts to the puzzle that are me.
CASEY: Yeah. On a like grander scheme of things, I guess as we start to think about the conversation coming to a close, but it's like why does it matter? Why? Why does it matter that women, women, identifying leaders, anybody really has a big, gorgeous goal? Like what's the impact that you're thinking of with?
JULIE: One of the dictionary definitions for gorgeous is magnificent, and I really feel this is about stepping into our magnificence. Like what it is we're put on this earth for and are meant to do. And so I think that, you know, we have to get out of playing it safe and that will look different for different people. There's no, that's why there's no real bar of definition for where the goal sits because the more you do it, the crazier it might seem. And so, but it is, I really, at its heart, I think it's about like all of us stepping into our magnificence.
CASEY: Well then Julie Ellis, what is your big gorgeous goal that you're kind of working on or towards right now to step more into your magnificence and I, and I just wanna name too this piece that's kind of an undercurrent here, but just to explicitly name it, which is that there's been different stages in your career where maybe you've gotten to levels of magnificence and it just continues to go, not like, you know, wherever uh, you arrived at was the magnificence, kind of this whole point as we're naming. So what, where, um, you know, where are your eyes looking to the next level of magnificence for what feels like calling you forward right now?
JULIE: For me, it's still about getting this message out to the world, Uhhuh, um, which, you know, was about the workshop and then the keynote, and now the book mm-hmm and, and now it's sort of thinking about how does it go beyond the book? What is it people want in terms of how to see all of us getting there?
CASEY: Well, I have no doubt that we're gonna be learning more ways that that's happening. I have a few ideas too, so, um, we can talk.
JULIE: Awesome. I look forward to hearing them, but it was so great to talk to you.
CASEY: Um, I'm so honored and I'm wondering if you could leave anybody with one question that you would invite them to be thinking about. What kind of question would you offer to others listening?
JULIE: I think it's a like a, what do you need to say no to to give yourself the white space to dream?
CASEY: Mm-hmm. We'll just drop the mic and leave that one right there as it stands. Julie Ellis, thank you so much, so grateful for you and I hope you have a great rest of your day.
JULIE: Thanks Casey.
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CASEY: Thank you for listening to the Questions to Hold podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode and are leaving the conversation with way more questions than answers.
I invite you to build a more meaningful relationship with yourself and the world around you through the simple yet profound act of holding questions. Visit questionstohold.com and wearebwb.com to learn more about this practice, our Questions to Hold card deck, and explore more conversations. See you there.