What if thinking differently is ok?
Join us in an honest conversation with Laura Matteson (she/her) exploring the intersection of neurodivergence, visual translation, and how we can become more skillful (and playful!) communicators.
Laura (she/her) is a visual translator who helps intuitive leaders take complex or mysterious ideas and organize them into understandable visuals to help them boldly take their next steps forward. She loves helping other visually-minded humans think and communicate in their own way so they can make an impact in their world.
In this episode you’ll hear:
Connect with Laura:
Connect with BWB
Be sure to subscribe on Apple or Spotify, and leave us a 5-star rating + review!
Podcast Song: Holding you by Prigida
Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
https://uppbeat.io/t/prigida/holding-you
License code: CELWR55ONTDIFRSS
What if thinking differently is ok?
Join us in an honest conversation with Laura Matteson (she/her) exploring the intersection of neurodivergence, visual translation, and how we can become more skillful (and playful!) communicators.
Laura (she/her) is a visual translator who helps intuitive leaders take complex or mysterious ideas and organize them into understandable visuals to help them boldly take their next steps forward. She loves helping other visually-minded humans think and communicate in their own way so they can make an impact in their world.
In this episode you’ll hear:
Connect with Laura:
Connect with BWB
Be sure to subscribe on Apple or Spotify, and leave us a 5-star rating + review!
Podcast Song: Holding you by Prigida
Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
https://uppbeat.io/t/prigida/holding-you
License code: CELWR55ONTDIFRSS
CASEY: Welcome to the Questions to Hold podcast. I'm your host and BWB founder, Casey Carroll. In a world that often praises answers over questions, the act of holding a question is an act of resistance, presence, and devotion. In this podcast, I hold space for discussion at the intersection of life's biggest questions and our personal and professional worlds.
These are honest conversations with progressive leaders dedicated to questioning our institutions, igniting change, and provoking new possibilities.
Join me for my next discussion.
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CASEY: Hello everyone, and welcome to the Questions To Hold podcast! Today is a special day, not only because the sun is finally shining in upstate New York, but because I get to sit in conversation with one of my most favorite people, creative collaborators, and friends who also happens to be local. So even though we're talking on Zoom, we could even be talking in person, which is such a gift. Um, Laura Mattheson, I have a million things to say about Laura, and I'll kick it over to you, Laura in a second to introduce yourself. But just to name that Laura and I met through a business card that I left at a coffee shop, which is one of my favorite stories because like how often does that really happen? That like you leave-you know, and this is pre pandemic- but just barely. And as soon as we met, it was just like, you know, the, the creative synergy and the person that you always hope you know, would pick up your business card and reach out to you. So it was such a beautiful chance encounter. And then, since then, we've become friends as well as supporters of each other's businesses in so many ways. With Laura coming in and supporting BWB on so many visual translation and strategy and branding projects. And then vice versa, BWB being a huge supporter of Laura's work, becoming a part of her Oh I See community, which we'll likely talk about today as well. So many other things. So first of many conversations, as I hope, and Laura, before I keep rambling on, I'm gonna kick it over to you to introduce yourself to the people, um, locating yourself in whatever way makes sense and then we can dive into some of the questions.
LAURA: Okay. Hello everybody. I loved the sound of all of that rambling because I love our story. I think that's when you feel that feeling inside that you wanna meet someone, even if it's because you saw their business card. Go for it. This is me putting that out there for that. So yeah, my name's Laura Madison. I am a white mother and I have ADHD, and so I'm neurodivergent in many ways because of that. And I'm also an artist. Um, and a creative and a squirrel lover. And I live locally to Casey in the Hu Asani Lands where the Hu Asani Confederacy was, which I think is very cool. And I love learning all about this area because new places keep popping up, which is cool. And what else would locate me?
CASEY: You wanna say anything about your business?
LAURA: Oh yeah. So I own a business. Um, so that business is both, it's a mix of teaching and actually hands-on support. So depending on what somebody needs, if they just need to learn about a visual aid tool, I teach about visual aids that are, um, helpful for communicating with other people whether it's you are having trouble communicating your thoughts, maybe you have to translate a video that's playing in your head into words or your, you have a client that you're working with who isn't quite getting what you're trying to say to them. And so maybe your words need to be translated into pictures, which is why I call myself a visual translator cuz it's quite literally what I'm doing, translating back and forth. Um, it feels like the picture version of sign language and I absolutely love doing it. And I do it for myself and my kids and everything . So it's just a big part of my life.
CASEY: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And in the show notes, there's gonna be links to Laura's website for the company, which is, uh, Illustrative, as well as her Instagram, which has tons of great content, um, and other ways to connect with visual translation, visual visual support tools, Laura directly. So be sure to check those out and keep learning about the importance of visual translation and visuals in our life and communications and relationships. So I'm gonna kick this off in the way that feels right, which is just from the very beginning. I'm curious if you wanna name what your relationship to questions has been. If you wanna track it all the way back, thinking of like kiddo Laura, or even in the more recent, um, back wherever you wanna go to, but just, you know, were questions encouraged?. Are they something that you've thought about? Were you an active questioner? A little bit of the origin and context to your relationship to questions.
LAURA: Okay, so I love this question because I love questions–
CASEY: Me too!
LAURA: –and I always have loved questions. And so my relationship to questions has definitely shifted over time. Um, but I have discovered as I do self-discovery as a grownup that questions are integral to how I even create or do anything because I have to ask why.
CASEY: Mm-hmm.
LAURA: And I used to think that was a problem, and that's because of all the questions, I would ask why all the time. So that's my main question, from like childhood on. People would say like, “it doesn't matter, just do it”. Or “because I said so”, or all of those kind of things would come my way or like, “uh, just do it.” And I also, because I was undiagnosed with ADHD, would get the like, “why are you doing that? Why would you say that? Why would…”, so I got a lot of why's put on me that I couldn't answer.
CASEY: Mm-hmm.
LAURA: So my relationship with questions kind of got a bit chaotic where I didn't wanna ask too many questions, but I also felt like I had to answer everyone else's questions. So it was like, different coming from different directions, like towards me and from me. So a lot of my reparenting of myself now is like, I'm allowed to ask questions and I don't have to ask them out loud, but if I want to, I can and I can choose who I ask them to. And then if someone asks me a question, I get to decide if I want to answer it or not. And that's been like the biggest growth in my relationship with questions because they are really important to me, especially the why one.
CASEY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's really interesting about also not just like, you asking questions, but questions being asked of you, especially as it may relate to your ADHD and I'm curious, even at a young age, even pre-diagnosis or even understanding maybe all the different layers that were going on, were people asking you to answer them with those questions? Like they–asking questions and they were expecting an answer to come back, or were they more asked as like rhetorical, spacious, supportive questions?
LAURA: It depends on the person. So I had some teachers who would ask like out of curiosity and that always felt really good cause I was like, oh, someone wants to know why I'm doing something cuz why it's important to me. So I was like, yes, I get to answer the why question, and I could like feel in my gut how it was coming at me. Um, but sometimes it was confusing if I was having trouble deciphering the social cues. Like if–especially passive aggression, I have trouble, I have trouble translating passive aggressiveness. So sometimes I think someone's actually like serious and like kindly coming forward with something, even if they're being passive aggressive. And then sometimes I think that I'm like in huge trouble and like I've messed everything–like I, it's either of the extremes when it comes to that. And so there would be, the like angry, frustrated that would come from parents or people who are trying to like get me to do something a particular way and I just couldn't because of so many reasons, like the neurodivergence. And that comes with like kind of a rebellious streak that I think we have on purpose. Like it's– I think that we've evolved that so that we can kind of test boundaries for people and test things out. Cuz it's not a very common trait, but it also makes it difficult when you just wanna do something the simplest way and you're like, no, let's try this totally random way. And that's another question that I always loved was like,” well, let's try it out” question. It feels like a question, even though that's a statement of like what could happen. Like what could we do? I love that song in Encanto when the… what is her name? The artist, is singing like, “what more can I do?” And I was like, that's like a huge question for me too!
CASEY: Isabella.
LAURA: Isabella, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so the questions coming at me were either like, “something's wrong with you questions, and I need to account for why it's wrong and why I haven't fixed it yet”. Or it was questions like, “oh, you're different. Like, tell me why, or like how?” That was, those were more “how” questions, I guess, like how are you planning on doing this or what made you decide this's like, share with me rather than, uh, tell me why you are broken and how you're gonna plan to fix it. You're like a kid. Like, okay. I don't know.
CASEY: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I really love this part of the conversation. Uh, and just to say, Laura and I went for a walk a week ago or so, and we were talking about this a little bit about where the energy and where the questions are sourcing from, of being a key part of both not only how the questions land and become either useful or probing or you know, what, what happens, what's the question asked? But really just getting into some of that nuance of what does it mean to ask questions, how to ask questions, mindfully, intentionally when questions are asked that are kind of assaulting or coming from a, a, maybe a negative energy or when they're coming from a spacious, curious energy. And we've, we're talking about that both as like parents and supporting our children, you know, in a space of questions, but also in business, you know, really how do we ask and do questions with clients and in, uh, visual translation per Laura's work or creative development in both of our work of like, how do you do the creative process and bring in all this questioning and just be very, very mindful of that energetic sourcing that's behind the questioning so that it's productive and leading us somewhere in, in a sense, um, and learn and helping us learn about each other and deepening our relationships to truth rather than that feeling like– in my body what I hear when you say somebody kind of like coming at you with a question like that, I'm like, I wanna shut down. Like my body like shuts down and reacts which is, you know, again, not the practice of holding questions or kind of what we're here in exploring questions around.
LAURA: It's interesting you say that because a lot of my–I keep calling, like, I call it remothering, so like cuz I did the refathering earlier in the process and the remothering is this idea of like how to, I kept cowering or like, I felt the cowering feeling in my body when people ask me questions, which is hard in business because you literally get asked questions–and even as a parent too, I mean parents, there's millions of questions that come at you every day and um, but in business, people would question something and I immediately was like, ah, I'm under attack. I must defend. And that doesn't help with sales or anything else when you're not like open and willing to answer. And it makes your mind think that you have something bad that like you're offering something bad because you feel ashamed that they're questioning it because of like, how I had received questions before. So this whole remothering part is even just a question, is an invitation. And I have this visual of like all of my ancestors having their hands on my back when someone asks me a question because I saw my daughter cower once when someone asked her a question and I was like, “oh no”. You know when your kids do something like, oh brother, this is gonna be my work now to like, figure out what you're demonstrating to them. And so I was like, “I need to go help her. I need to like fix the situation”. And then I was like, no, I just need to let her know that I, that she's supported so she can stand back up. And that was when I like had this visual of all of these–I'm like, I'm supported also. You know, friends and community, my business network and certain family members and ancestors that I can like call upon to stand behind me when I feel like questions are attacking and like remind myself that they're an invitation cuz I'm strong and I'm not like under attack. It's been a really nice growth learning.
CASEY: Yeah, that's an amazing example. When you say you have a visual, too, of that, is it a visual in your mind or did you literally illustrate it for yourself so that you have some sort of visual anchor and, and storytelling piece to reference?
LAURA: It came as like a visual in my head and then I journaled it out so I didn't make any big like painting or anything to go up on my wall, but it is in my journal, a little sketch of that. So something for people to find later when they're going through my journals and have that beautiful image there. Maybe I'll make it into a painting someday. That would be actually a fun project.
CASEY: Yeah. Well, I mean, and I, I don't mean to put words in your mouth either, but just you can tell me what questions your business is holding for sure. But when I hear you talk or when we've worked together in thinking through things like visual support and kaleidoscopic thinkers and like thinking differently, all being like centered and not the like, questioned in the negative sense of the word. I think a lot about the question of like “What if thinking differently is okay?” You know? And there's so many other questions that could be centered that your business is like prioritizing. But I'm wondering if you just wanna share like if there are any key questions like that, or even just as you named as a parent, as somebody with ADHD, running a creative business working with a lot of other parents and folks who are neurodivergent, like what are some of the big recentering or big questions that you're working on with folks through the creative process or visual process?
LAURA: A visual that I'm wor- or I like to work within analogies cuz it helps me formulate all of the details. Um, and when I work in a structural, like “who, what, where, when, why”? And I'm trying to like explain something. It's not detailed enough in my head. I need like a, a visual, and right now I'm, I think about how I work with people who think that they're horses, but they're actually unicorns. So I'm always asking questions like to help them discover that they are not a horse And I recently this analogy of like they're trying to get apples, but their horn keeps getting the apple and they can't get to it, but they're watching all these horses put it in the bucket just effortlessly. And it's like, well, you need a tool where you can scrape your horn to get the apple off into the bucket. Like it's not that you can't do it, it's that you're working with a totally different set of tools and now you need a different set of tools. So my– I tried to take myself out of like solving it for them by saying like, you are, like “you should do this”. And assuming they are a unicorn or a horse or something like that but really asking the questions of “who are you and what are you trying to do?” And I think those are my biggest questions cuz when they hear it, when they answer it and they hear who they are, they're answering the, like, “I'm not typical”, which is important, and also can cause grief when you realize that, but, and then you can move forward and realize, “okay, I'm not gonna do things in a typical way because I'm not typical”, which is also empowering once you get through the grief of realizing that you can't be typical. And then the, the, “what are you trying to do” is a question I learned to ask my kids. instead of being like, “why would you do that?” You can reflect like, what are you trying to do? Because the kid is probably trying to do something. And I use the same question with my clients because they're trying to say or create something and they're having trouble getting it out in the language that everyone tells them they have to do like a sales pitch with bullets and words, and they're trying to explain what they do in a way that's not like their typical way. Um, and that helps me stay in the supportive role, rather than being the hero of their whole journey that they're trying to do, which I think is most beneficial for them.
CASEY: And just to give like a overview, you know, of the basic kind of general, what is visual support, you know, essentially. So like what is that? Why do we need it, from your perspective, why do we need it? And then how does that relate to some of what you were just talking about?
LAURA: So visual support for me is as broad as like when you say the arts. So when people say visual communication, for example, they usually think graphic design but it's actually so much more than that. It's like video. It's demonstrating, it's acting things out. It's pointing, like giving real life examples of things that people can see in action, like representation and making things clear and readable, uh, so people can understand them or using symbols to help people remember things. There's such like a broad range of types of visual communication and so I call it visual support because the way that my clients and I use it are asking the question like, “how can I make this clear and understandable for the other person?” and that might be that you need to put it in a video because the person that you work with really resonates with videos. I think we're seeing a lot of that now with like TikTok and Instagram. People are learning so much about themselves through this like visual communication that they don't necessarily get through Twitter, but even Twitter, writing succinct things helped a lot of people who don't– like people with dyslexia and stuff benefited from places like Twitter. So being able to think and ask the question of like, “how can I make this clear for them?” is what visual support is. It's not always drawing out a picture, it's making something visually clear for the other person. And I, I focus on visuals because I work with visual thinkers who think in pictures already and then people who work, who are working with people who need things to be visual, which I talk about, like how to even tell if somebody might need that support and stuff. Cuz once you know it, you kind of see it everywhere. I don't know if that's happened for you with your clients too, now that you've gone through a few of them.
CASEY: Yes. Well, and I also think, you know the question, how, like,” how can I make this clear?” that you sit with is really an important kind of distinction versus “why isn't this clear for somebody?” Cause the why isn't it clear oftentimes really more points at the problem or that there is a problem. And the, “how can I make it clear to me?” activates like creativity and possibility and empathy and understanding somebody and the desire to like communicate and translate, and that there's a vast ocean of ways that people understand, communicate, you know, like that it isn't just one linear path, whereas something like the flip of that question or another way to ask it of like, well, why, “why isn't that clear?” can start to close down the creativity and like focus on that there is a problem or something that needs a solution where I really appreciate that expansiveness of like, “how can I make this clear” and the playfulness that you know, I know that you bring into all of your work too, of that element of like, “ooh, let's play, like how can we make this clear?” and, and that it's like joyful and, um, not, you know, not something to be kind of shut down around or feel like, “oh God, I don't wanna like approach that so just do it the same old way or whatever”
LAURA: Right, yeah. Especially when we're feeling tired or low on energy and we're like, okay, I'll just simplify this by following a template or like doing it the traditional way when sometimes that's more complicated than just getting out like a piece of paper and markers and like writing out a brochure for your business and being like, “this is what it is”. You know, like just getting playful and imagining yourself in a different role. There's lots of really fun games that I love doing with clients, and it's fun to see them feel like childlike again, that's another big value in Illustrative is like, “how can you make it clear and how can you have fun sharing it?” Like how can it be fun for you to share about it? And don't worry about looking ridiculous because you're gonna look different, and different is great in business and people will want to reconnect with that as part of a movement of being more in tune with your childlike wonder and like open up space to be vulnerable cause a lot of people are looking for it right now it seems.
CASEY: Yeah. Are you finding that in a lot of the work too that folks who have businesses are genuinely interested in coming to try to understand how to, you know, how to communicate in new ways, visually being one of them predominantly that you're working with, but also in ways that do kind of think about neurodivergent design practices and prioritize that and that there's a genuine kind of like draw and interest to that? Or are you working mostly with folks who are themselves experiencing some type of kaleidoscopic thinking and wanting to get their ideas out or? It could be both, obviously.
LAURA: Yeah, I would say that it's both. There's people who are coming who are kaleidoscopic thinkers, which is my term for when the images in your head don't stay still. So if you're ever sitting there like, “oh, well that floated away.” Like, and that happens often, not just when you're tired, that's probably-you’re probably kaleidoscopic thinker and people like that can put together really good stories which is fun. A lot of children's book artists and stuff have kaleidoscopic minds like that. They come in and they're feeling like they're tired because they're just having trouble communicating themselves and they just wanna simplify it. And then they're like, oh, I could simplify it by being myself. And so they come along and we talk about how to do that. I have seen a lot of people who, once I meet with them, they're not the people who can do business in a typical way. It takes a little bit longer usually, and a lot more like, coffee chats and like hearing about the mission to get on board. Some people are like, is this going to, you know, cuz it does increase sales and so I say that, but it's a slower process It's not like, if you're not using manipulative visuals, then it will take longer, but it'll be a deeper, better connection with whatever clients are coming. It's more of the one-on-one conversation with them when they start to, when they're looking me in the face and saying like, I care, or I don't care if you understand what I do. A lot of people are tired and the ones who are tired because their kaleidoscopic thinkers are loving this process and the ones who are tired and they're like, that's just too much extra effort to then make alll of these visuals and I, and it looks childish and I don't wanna be vulnerable. I've had people flat out say like, I don't want to talk about neurodivergence, cuz it makes people feel uncomfortable and I don't want my clients feel uncomfortable. I mean, that helps me know we're not a good match. But it's like, oh, bummer. But that's with any inclusivity, movement, you know? You're gonna have people who are like, no, that's too much work for me. Cause it doesn't affect me.
CASEY: Oh, so much to say about that.
LAURA: That's a whole other episode.
CASEY: I was gonna say maybe we'll, we'll, uh, tag that for, uh, episode two. I did wanna say too, because I got to take just in terms of like, where, where are any of us in that spectrum of visual communicators or support–I took, Laura has this really cool quiz that she put together, and I got to take it prior to this episode, and I am a mirror. Which Laura's not surprised. I'll just tell you that. But Laura, I wonder if you wanna just say what that quiz is, why you created it, and how people may use it if they're listening to this and are curious of like, oh, I wonder what kind of a visual person I am in this arena.
LAURA: So I actually made this quiz– that's a good segue, cause I made this quiz because people were tired and they're like, I don't know. This is a lot of work because they haven't gotten to the playful part. Once you bridge over to it being fun. You're like, oh, this is so much easier than trying to do it than normal way. The quiz is called “What's Your Visual Support Style?” and the point is that you take it, and this can change over time, but in this moment when you take the quiz, what are the kinds of visual support that you already gravitate towards? Like how do you already support people? What do you kind of already do because we're actually all visual creatures. Because before there was a written language or any of that, we were visually communicating, not just drawing on cave walls, but just with nature. Nature, like visually, was an analogy. It showed us things. We had landmarks, like all of these visual cues were in nature. For us as natural beings. So it's just a natural process. So the quiz helps you discover which natural way of using visual communication you already use and then gives you, like there's an email sequence and a page that you can go to that has all the visual aids I suggest for that style so you can just go ahead and start supporting people in a way that you already are. It's just now you'll be intentional about it and you'll start noticing it. And as you build your capacity from being able to be intentional with those, you can start learning some of the other tools, or at least know about them to recommend them if a client needs them or you come in upon a situation where you might need to try it out.
CASEY: That's really cool. I'm wondering if you do, if any part of that work or any of the research that went into putting that quiz? Are you thinking also about people who have different levels of visual ability, so, everything from, you know, being blind to legally blind, to having different visual impairments to all the way or glasses like I am or somewhere all the way on the 2020 vision, do you include that or do you have a partner that you bring in for some of that?
LAURA: First of all, all of the visual aids that I offer for those are different levels of varying like, creative skills. So in terms of being able to make a visual aid or like use one that you'll find something that would be in that ability. And then yes, I have people who I partner with and I'm actually building some new partnerships, which right now that I'm excited about in the like diverse ability, and like different body ability zone because it's not my expertise. I don't have lived experience in having blindness, and so I do have people that I connect with and I have links that I sent. It's on my resources page on my website too, of where you can go get support if you're looking to make your website accessible or, or those kind of visual aids. And then people I work with who talk about how to make visual aids for like autism or different other types of neurodiversities where like an analogy is confusing. So how do you use like a very direct and structured visual that's very clear and, and, and not illustrative in any way. So like the kind that I do is more analogy based, but we do have partners in that realm. And the quiz itself, it can be read by a reader. So somebody who has blindness can take the quiz, everything is reader-readable. I have partners for that realm, and how they need to communication.
CASEY: So, so cool. Yeah. I love it. You're always so thoughtful in all of those dimensions, and I'm sure those partnerships, I don't know about them yet, but they sound like that's going to be an exciting, um, way to bring it into the work. And I have to check out those resources because I've loved so many of the projects that we've done together where you've really brought in so much of that thinking for us on certain ways, especially with web in terms of like, colors and how to make it readable and all the different pieces that you're naming here, which I know you said you have some resources for on your website, which is awesome. And also linked, and I'm just really loving, like coming into this conversation or closing this conversation, thinking about that of, like just really holding the question of how are we communicating with one another and are we really, are we really thinking about it from the understanding that we all communicate differently through different style? And if that question was centered and held in a variety of ways in life and in parenting, as we're naming and in business, what else becomes possible in terms of like getting ideas out and all the different pieces? You're saying like, I just, t hroughout this conversation feel a momentum of like excitement in me where it's like, “wow, what if we were like all holding that question and like really cared about communication?!” And I know so many out there listening right now do care about that, but it makes for, um, an exciting and creative world for us to be a part.
LAURA: Yeah, that's a very exciting question, for sure. I think we'll get there. I think the more that you know something, the more you're on the lookout for where you might not know something. So I think it'll snowball and people will start realizing that even if it doesn't affect them, it does in that we're all interconnected in that way. Yeah. Yeah. I love holding that visual space for people to be like, “oh, I can do that?”. That's like my favorite question that they ask me. I can do that? You can. Go for it.
CASEY: Um, that feels like the perfect note to end on, but would you want to, other than the question of “I can do that?” and your answer, “yes you can!”, is there any other question you would wanna leave listeners with or any other question you're kind of sitting with after the conversation?
LAURA: I feel like there are so many questions in there. I'm just like, wow. I have a lot of like, questions that I like to hold and so it's a. Being able to ask like, can I do that? But also the “how can I?: energy of like the expansive energy of asking “how can I…” even for yourself, like “how can I build the spaciousness for myself or how can I make time for myself?” or anything like there are so many things we can do if we just think about what the tools are that we have and how we can use those tools or what ones we need to get .
CASEY: Yeah, and the other thing just to name up, cuz I, you know, I've had the privilege of having many conversations with you, but is that, I've heard you say before, which is like, “what questions are mine?” and “what questions were placed on me?” Um, and just being in also that which can be playful, can also have, you know, a variety of different energies associated with it, I suppose. But it can come from that playfulness of like, when some of those questions get posed or come up, um, inside of us also remembering like, “is this my question? Or is this somebody else's question that's snuck up in here?” and maybe it's time to move along.
LAURA: Yeah. Yeah, that's a very good point. I do say that all the time. That's part of that remothering, like, “wait a second. That's just a distraction, that's not mine.”
CASEY:. Exactly the question investigation, it never ends. Well, Laura, I'm so grateful to have had the opportunity to talk today and more to come. We already tagged a part two of this conversation, so we'll circle back to it. And thank you for being on the podcast.
LAURA: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here.
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CASEY: Thank you for listening to the Questions to Hold podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode and are leaving the conversation with way more questions than answers.
I invite you to build a more meaningful relationship with yourself and the world around you through the simple yet profound act of holding questions. Visit questionstohold.com and wearebwb.com to learn more about this practice, our Questions to Hold card deck, and explore more conversations. See you there.