Join us for a conversation with Brad Farris (he/him) where we discussed finding peace within ourselves to help make peace with others, and how this contributes to partnership.
Brad Farris is an engineer turned leadership coach who specializes in helping creative agency owners unleash growth, in their agencies and themselves. He has 20 years of experience working with agency founders. As a result, he can quickly spot patterns and solve problems that stunt growth. Since its founding, Anchor Advisors has helped more than 450 agency owners lead confidently and find more hours in the day.
If there’s one thing his experience has taught him, it’s this: the biggest barrier to growing your business is between your ears!
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In this episode you’ll hear about:
Connect with Brad:
Connect with BWB
Be sure to subscribe on Apple or Spotify, and leave us a 5-star rating + review!
Podcast Song: Holding you by Prigida
Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
https://uppbeat.io/t/prigida/holding-you
License code: CELWR55ONTDIFRSS
Join us for a conversation with Brad Farris (he/him) where we discussed finding peace within ourselves to help make peace with others, and how this contributes to partnership.
Brad Farris is an engineer turned leadership coach who specializes in helping creative agency owners unleash growth, in their agencies and themselves. He has 20 years of experience working with agency founders. As a result, he can quickly spot patterns and solve problems that stunt growth. Since its founding, Anchor Advisors has helped more than 450 agency owners lead confidently and find more hours in the day.
If there’s one thing his experience has taught him, it’s this: the biggest barrier to growing your business is between your ears!
===
In this episode you’ll hear about:
Connect with Brad:
Connect with BWB
Be sure to subscribe on Apple or Spotify, and leave us a 5-star rating + review!
Podcast Song: Holding you by Prigida
Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
https://uppbeat.io/t/prigida/holding-you
License code: CELWR55ONTDIFRSS
Casey: Welcome to the Questions to Hold podcast. I'm your host and BWB founder, Casey Carroll. In a world that often praises answers over questions, the act of holding a question is an act of resistance, presence, and devotion. In this podcast, I hold space for discussion at the intersection of life's biggest questions and our personal and professional worlds.
These are honest conversations with progressive leaders dedicated to questioning our institutions, igniting change, and provoking new possibilities.
Join me for my next discussion.
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Hello all and welcome to the Questions to Hold podcast. This season, we're doing something special. We are going to be hosting a limited edition series on the questions surrounding unpacking partnership.
Cait: I'm Cait. I'm Casey's BWB partner for those who have not met me. We're super excited that we're going to be in conversation around partnership with a variety of folks and the questions central to what partnership means to them.
Casey: So as part of the series, we're going to be interviewing a variety of people that have impacted our story, either Caitlin's individually, mine individually, or ours collectively as part of BWB, as well as people that we've met out in the world with really unique points of view around partnership and how that impacts our lives.
Cait: We're really excited that you're here. Thanks for listening.
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Cait: Good afternoon, everyone, wherever you may be listening from, uh, we're very excited to be hosting Brad Farris on today's episode of Questions to Hold, Unpacking Partnership. Before we dive into your official intro, we're so excited to have you Brad. For many of you who we've done some one on one work with, you've probably heard us name drop Brad quite a bit because we're huge fans of his work, his newsletter. We read it avidly for real, for real. And I've done some coaching work with Brad, which has been immensely like business changing, life changing, enlightening, and you've probably also heard us drop some Brad Farris', some of his advice on you here and there through our work. So welcome to the show, Brad.
Brad: Oh, thank you. That was so nice to hear.
Cait: Brad's official intro is Brad is an engineer turned leadership coach who specializes in helping creative agency owners unleash growth in their agencies and their selves. He's spent 20 years working with agency founders, which spoiler alert, many of our clients are. And as a result, he can quickly spot patterns and solve problems that stunt growth. Since founding Anchor Advisors, he's helped more than 450 agency owners. lead confidently and find more hours in the day. So if there's one thing that his experience has taught him, it's this the biggest barrier to growing your business is between your ears. Welcome. Welcome.
Brad: Thanks!
Cait: Brad. Is there anything else you'd like to share about yourself and your journey, your career? Any moments that stand out that you think people will want to know about you as they're listening to today's episode?
Brad: Well, I guess the first thing that struck me is that that's a very professional introduction. And it doesn't mention the fact that I'm married with five kids. I live here in Chicago with a dog and a cat and our one youngest who's still at home, which has been its own journey, right? I mean, we could have a whole conversation about the parallels between growing a business and parenting. Yeah. So I think those are the things that I want people to hear.
Cait: Amazing.
Casey: I want to add too. So prior to, I'm just intrigued by the formal introduction and how you say, you know, the biggest barriers, what is between your ears. And then always before podcast interviews to get kind of connected, we ask some questions. One of the questions that you talked about that you're holding is in this realm of finding peace with yourself and that being able to find peace with others. And that feels so intimately connected to me to partnership in a million ways, which we can talk about. But also it just struck me when Caitlin was saying that to this whole piece of like, what's between the ears and finding peace within that. So I don't know if you want to just kick us off and then we can kind of like, That inquiry around a little bit, but maybe what that means and we can find our way to partnership through that.
Brad: So I think it was the middle of last year. I came across this quote from St. Isaac, the Syrian, and he said, make peace with yourself and both heaven and earth will make peace with you. And when I first saw that, the first thing that struck me is how much of my energy is devoted to making peace out here, you know, like how can I get along with everybody, how can I find the right solution to all the problems. Like I have a lot of energy that's focused outwards compared to the amount of energy that's focused inwards to create peace within myself. After noticing that, then the next question that came to mind is what does it mean to make peace with yourself? And that's been a whole journey. I mean, the obvious first ones were anxiety, anger, all those judgy voices that I talk to myself with, all the ways that I complain about myself within my own head, you know, saying things that I would never say to a friend, but that I say to myself on a regular basis. But as that started to subside, then, then I started thinking about in, in my faith tradition, we have this idea of true self and false self, where the true self is that part of you that is God inspired and breathed into you and is, is the truest version of yourself, right? And then the false self is sort of that crusty part that we put on the outside to protect us from the world and what's happening. And so also looking at that true self and false self as, as really being at war with each other and how do I create peace in that realm? And so it's really been a deep question that, like I say, it hasn't quite been a year, but it's been rolling around in my head for a long time.
Casey: Well, and as we often say, like, there's never going to be necessarily a fixed answer, right? Like in the you're in the inquiry of that question as a path itself, you know, not like a destination you're trying to get to. But I just found it so interesting because I can really relate to that and so much of Caitlin and mine partnership and in other relationships in my life, business, personally, professionally, et cetera, where really does boil down to some of that question about how successful can be is rooted in how much peace and fulfillment I can find within myself. And then being able to open that into relationship with, with others. So I just found it really, really interesting. And I guess I'm curious before we kind of wrap that, how you see that play out. In your business, in the relationships you're doing with clients that come into you and then how you see them kind of relating in that way as they go and, you know, build their agencies, et cetera.
Brad: So I think the first thing that I see is that in order to be of help to other people, I need to do my own work and coming into a session. I actually, I just did a kickoff call maybe a month ago with a client. And there's this part in the kickoff call where I say, I'm doing my work to come into this meeting ready to serve you. So I've gotten good sleep, I've gotten exercise, I've eaten well, I've taken care of my needs so that I can be here for you. And he stopped me and he said, so you mean I don't have to take care of you at all? I'm like, exactly. You don't have to take care of me. I'm here for you. And that concept was so powerful for him. Like it's, it somewhat freed him up to be himself because he wasn't trying to take care of me or make sure I liked him or any of those kind of things that we do in normal relationships, right? And so I think the, the making sure that I'm taking care of myself so that I can show up more fully for clients. That I think is a huge part of it. And then the other thing I think is, I think there was a time in my life when my strategy for happiness was to make sure that everyone was doing the right things and living in the right way. And like, I was trying to straighten everybody else out so that I could be happy. Right. It's not a good route for happiness. People are really uncooperative in that plan and like things happen in the world. And so, so to the extent that, you know, even the work that I do in coaching, there's a certain advice giving element to it and just handling that much more loosely. Like I can't think that I'm doing a good job if people do what I think they should do. I mean, that's not up to me. So just trying to be in the world in a lighter way.
Cait: Something that I really loved- I did Brad's mastermind group a couple of years ago. And something I really liked that you did before our calls was you had a plot out on a grid, basically how we were doing and not just about our work, but our lives. And I liked that. And I've shared that with Casey and others too, who facilitate groups, because one of the things you said is, I don't want to go through a whole call and then at the end have someone say, actually, everything's going pretty terribly in my life right now and in my work and I'm floundering. And I'd be curious if there's anything you'd want to share about kind of how you've brought that into some of your work, like the human elements that you've brought in, because I know we've had many conversations that have nothing to do with that. business. They're about what's going on in life or anxieties out there in the world or whatever. So building on what you were just naming, I'd be curious like how that's worked itself into how you are in relationship with your clients.
Brad: So in particular with business owners and 95 percent of my clients own their own businesses, but it's true for employees, I think too, is that when you own your own business, not only is there not home time and business time, right? You're thinking about your business while you're cooking dinner. You're thinking about your kids while you're replying to emails. Like, it's all kind of spread together. And for many business owners, their ego is really mixed up in how their business is performing. And so, If my business is performing well, I'm a hero and I can do no wrong. And if my business is not performing well, obviously I'm a loser and I can't get anything right. And you can have both of those feelings in the same day or even in the same hour, right? I mean, it's just, that's what business ownership is like. And so not trying to separate those things apart, but, but to, to say, look, that's all there. So we have to talk about all of that, right? And so if you're going to show up on a call with a client. You need to have all of those things settled so you can give as much of your creative genius to that client as you possibly can. So if you're worried about, you know, there's this medical bill that's coming and I don't know how we're going to pay it. Or, you know, I had a fight with my teenager and, you know, they hate me and they've hated me for a long time now. Like all of that stuff is taking up space in your brain and keeping you from being as effective as you can in that client call or in the conversation with your teenager. And so since it's all in there, we got to pull it all apart and try to give it its own place and let it rest somewhere. And sometimes to be able to say, okay, you can sit over here on the side while I have this meeting. And then we'll talk with you again when we're done.
Cait: That reminds me a little bit of some exercises we've done with clients. Cause a lot of what comes up for folks is the imposter syndrome. And when you were talking about that, it reminded me of a time Casey and I were working with an artist who she actually drew her biggest critic and her biggest champion, she was used a lot of, you know, creative process to, um, a lot of these pieces and For her, it was drawing. So I remember her drawing this one piece that had like, here's what my biggest champion is saying. And my biggest cheerleader and unpacking that as well as the, the critic and figuring out ways to bring them into the conversation where it made sense, you know, rather than fight against them, how do I work with them and bring them into the mix? I- I'd imagine that kind of stuff comes into play with your, your clients too.
Brad: Yeah, imposter syndrome is so pervasive, I think. And it really, I don't even want to call it imposter syndrome, because it's really about when we're doing something that requires courage, right? And any spiritual or creative or business act, because business is a creative and spiritual endeavor, requires that kind of courage. And so when we step into that kind of courage, there's just all kinds of voices that are trying to protect us from the potential harm that can come by exposing ourselves in that way. And that's, that's, Just what happens like that's normal to get used to the idea that, Hey, we can do hard things and we can do things that require courage. And when we do that, we've got all these voices that we got to figure out what to do with. One of my clients said his habit, when he started hearing that voice, that super critical voice would be to turn to it and like put it in a certain place and say, Hey, I'm really busy right now. I would love to talk with you about that, but I need to finish what I'm doing. So if you could just sit down, I'm going to go back to my work. And then he's, then he, when he finished his work, he would turn back and there would never be anybody there. And so just giving himself the space to focus and do the courageous thing. Cause once you've done it, then all those fears are not, you know, they don't feel that way.
Casey: Yeah. A lot of what you're talking about reminds me of, well, it does all connect into partnership in so many ways, because in our work, we'll often ask people directly how they're in relationship with their business. So one of the first questions we ask, you know, and we really tried to emphasize that even if you are technically the business, right, if you're a therapist, or if you're a speaker, or, you know, etc, an expert in some way or a solopreneur, there can be a lot of muddiness. And even if you're, you know, running a multi, you know, national corporation, You can still have a lot of moneyness between the identity of yourself and what the identity of your business is. And so to really start to parse that out, like you're talking about in parsing out, you know, the relationship with that, that other voice that's coming up, but to really parse out to that relationship with your business and say, this is not me. I am not it. I am here and we can be in a dynamic partnership with each other and then asking what the needs are on either side. You know, the business might ask for something and you might be able to meet it or not. And you might be asking for something and you know that there's a dynamic partnership happening. Even if you are, quote, one in the same thing within that. And I think over time, we've seen that that gives a lot of people a lot of freedom to start to separate out the needs and the desires and the wants and those kinds of ways. And really just starting to get more clear on what's happening. But I hear that in some of what you're talking about too, and naming with your clients around, like, how do you become partners with those different voices or those in your body. So that, or even when you were just talking, I'm thinking about so many times when I used to have to talk to my, you know, now almost seven year old, but of being like, Hey, I'm going to be on this call. For 33 more minutes, 28 seconds. After that, I will give you my full presence. I can promise that, you know, and then that being something where we could be in partnership on it, and then I could come back and be present in my work. And then I could come back and be present to her after it and just always having to kind of like skill up in the negotiation of those different partnerships and the communication around all of it. So I just see so many of the different pieces that we're talking about here being woven into really like some of these curiosities and inquiries Caitlin are having around the strength of partnership and how do we, you know, how do we cultivate it in some of these different ways. And I think you're speaking to relating and communication in a lot of really smart ways right now.
Brad: I love that question. I might steal that question.
Casey: Yeah, please use it.
Brad: I mean, the follow on I would say is, is it a healthy relationship that you have with your business? Is it an abusive relationship? Right? Like, are you codependent? Like what's going on there?
Casey: We really say that we say animate it as if it was a partner in your life. So it's like, is somebody giving more energy than somebody else? Is there an unhealthy pattern that's getting in the way? You know, what really like start to actually look at it as two beings. And then there's always some sort of an insight or revelation that comes out of that. And then again, that being an essential business practice, not like a one and done of like, Oh, I know where the relationship is. But it's like any of us that are in partnerships and relationships know they're different every minute. So it's really about them being in that relationship. Occupying that relationship intentionally to think of as a business practice and, you know, as a life practice as well, but you're welcome to steal it and give it due credit.
Brad: Of course, absolutely.
Cait: I've noticed, Brad, in, so obviously we said that we read your newsletter constantly and share it around. And I've noticed when you send your newsletters, you often talk about something you've read, something you've heard, you know, a conversation you had with a client. And I think the one that came out either today or yesterday, it was even, you were taking a lot of the responses you got from a previous newsletter and pulling that in. I love that you do that because I think another big piece of partnership is what Casey you were just alluding to which is- It's very dynamic, evolving, changing, building. Things are, things are always moving and grooving. So I'm just curious if you want to share anything about your process with where you're gaining a lot of inspiration or where you're gaining a lot of your, you know, your communication material that you're sharing with the world.
Brad: In the last year or so, I've started to own that I'm just a lifetime learner that like, if I'm not learning, I feel like I'm dying. And so over the last four or five years, I've read between 30 and 40 books a year. I've listened to a whole bunch of podcasts. And when I'm doing that, I'm always kind of looking for what is the nugget. So when I read a book, I take notes on the books that I read. Usually just highlights in the Kindle and then afterwards I do a little summary, but like this quote from Saint Isaac the Syrian came from a book that I read by this guy named Elder Thaddeus, who's a Serbian monk that died in 2005, but that was a nugget that came out of there. It was like a thing that he repeated over and over again in that book. So I usually let those things roll around a little bit in my head before I'm going to share them. I might try them out with a client and say, you know, what does this sound like for you? And then I also have a group of peers and friends that, that I might say, Hey, this idea came up. Does this make sense to you? Or here's what I'm hearing from it. And so I let it roll around a little bit. Before usually I share it. One of my foundational values is that not all the smart people work for me. You know, that there's smart people out in the world. And I just want to, I want to get all the smarts I can so that I can be the best advisor and coach that I can be.
Cait: I really like that. I also hear you saying that you have a lot of practices that you do ongoing, whether they're like, I'm committing to this practice, or they're just habits that you've formed over the years. And we talk a lot about that too of having a practice, whether that be of holding questions, like we're talking about, or, you know, some sort of creative practice or spiritual practice. And I'm just curious if you have any others that you want to talk about.
Brad: I would say there's two. Well, first of all, let me back up. It was probably 10 years ago that I realized that I was kind of treating my body like a rental car that, you know, It wasn't that important to me. And like, it was kind of in my way a lot of times cause it needed sleep and food and, you know, things that got in the way of me doing the things that I wanted to do at that time, rest and exercise became foundational practices. And for all of my clients, we talk about sleep. Like if you are not getting good sleep, you are significantly impaired in everything that you're doing the rest of the day. And so getting good sleep is where everything starts. So you get sleep, get some exercise, you eat a little bit better. Beyond that, there are two things that have consistently been helpful for me. One is silence. Some people would call it meditation, but for me, it's just sitting and not thinking and not talking and being with whatever is going on. And in warm weather, I sit out on my front porch and I look, you know, there's trees and birds and the sun and whatever. And I can just sit and be in that place and discover what's wandering around in my head. And Oh, that's curious. I didn't know that was there, but just kind of letting it go and and not- I don't journal about it. I don't hang on to it. I just kind of observe and see what's there. And then a second practice, which is similar is something called the welcoming prayer. I am someone who, over the course of my life, has held on to things very tightly. And we talked about how my program for happiness for a long time was to get everybody to do the things that I wanted them to do so that I could be happy. Like I, I had an outcome that I needed to have in order to have happiness and that didn't work out well for me. And so the welcoming prayer, which I do usually around noon, because that's when I find myself the most wound up is to say that, that I welcome whatever's coming and there's a specific format to it, but the two parts of it that are critical for me are. I welcome every feeling, thought, emotion, situation, condition, or person. And then I just sit and think, what are the thoughts that I don't, that I'm not welcoming right now, that I'm fighting against, that I'm wrestling with, that I'm pushing against? Who are the people? What are the feelings that aren't welcome? And I just welcome all that stuff and kind of let go. And then when I finish, I say, one of the things that it says is that I release the need to change any people, situations, conditions, or even myself. And that last part. I hate saying that every day because I want to change myself, but here I am. I am this thing and I've been this thing and I've gotten here through a really messy process, but it is what it is. I couldn't be here if I didn't do all those things. So, so that's been super helpful. I often say that the welcoming prayer saved my life because if I hadn't learned that practice, I definitely would have drove myself and everyone around me crazy.
Cait: Are there any specific- that's so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that, first of all. Are there any specific people or partners or relationships that have really impacted either the formation of your current business or where you are today. And I will say something we often like to do when we close different groups is we'll say, you know, who would you give this day to? And I'd be curious if there's any person or people or group that maybe comes to mind when you think about that.
Brad: I mean, there are three that come up right away. I have a friend, Shannon, who he and I became friends in college. So we've been friends for more than 30 years, almost 40 years. We've had times when we had breaks in our friendship and we didn't talk for a long time, but for the last 10 or 15 years, we make it a point to get together in person once or twice a year. And because of the length of that friendship, we just share everything. And so that's been really special. A big part of my transformation that we were just talking about, like accepting the welcoming prayer and kind of letting go of a lot of that control came through a group called The Transforming Center. Ruth Haley Barton is the leader of The Transforming Center. And that was a super major turning point and still a big current in my life. And then my coaches right now I'm coaching with Teresa Campbell and she's amazing. And having that mirror that can say, Hey, Brad, I thought you were living peace. And, but you're telling me all these people you're in conflict with, like. That's been super, super valuable. So those are the people that come to mind when you ask that question.
Casey: And what would you say it is about, like, if there was kind of a common denominator or something, you know, cause like I'm hearing in some of your share, like people that witness you and and mirror you courageously, right? Like people who, who love you with non judgment and ride the ups and downs right there's probably so many things but like what would you say are some of those pieces even with, you know, naming three different types of partners who are obviously very different intersections of your life.
Brad: Well, if we go back to that idea of the true self false self. I think the thing that immediately occurred to me when you asked that question was that all of those people see my true self, and they're champions for my true self. Shannon in particular, just because he's been around the longest, doesn't get put off by the false self. Like he kind of just doesn't pay attention to all that performance and stuff, and just doesn't is willing to be a champion for the, for the good part.
Casey: Which to me seems so much like really what it boils down to, to be a partner with ourself too. And so much of the essence of so many of the different pieces that we're talking about, or that you're really highlighting in this conversation. So it's always, sometimes we'll say that too, in an exercise, you know, if people are really having a hard time seeing their true self in the mix of all of it, it's like, go tell me your three mentors that have meant the most to you and why and then really it's just a mirror of what it is coming down to for them to get to that part of themselves also, you know, and that we get to see it and other people and then see it reflected back into ourselves. So it's really cool.
Brad: That's beautiful. I love that.
Casey: Yeah, it's always one of those where they're like, Oh, because you can think of it right away. Like you were like, I know right away, three people came up and it's like, boop, boop, boop, boop, you know, and they can always think of it right away. And then it's like, Oh, okay, well, then you're not too far away.
Brad: I have a, uh, I have a similar exercise that I do where I ask people to fold a piece of paper in half. And then on one side, think about yourself on your best day. What are the words you use to describe yourself on your best day? And then flip it over, who are you on your worst day? What words do you use to describe yourself on your worst day? Right. The first message is when you open the paper up, that's the same person, right? Same person on our, on our best day as we are on our worst day. To see that we can integrate that, that those aren't, we're not trying to kill one and resurrect the other. But in fact, all of that is important to who we are and to, to being at peace. We're all coming full circle here to be at peace with both halves of that piece of paper.
Cait: I want to do that exercise now. And I'm really curious if what will come up is this theory, I think I've talked to you about this before, Brad, of our worst qualities- worst, I'm putting in quotes because what does that even mean? But it's our, our worst qualities and our best qualities are the same thing. Like, Oh, you're so confident. You're too confident. You know, there's the whole like two sides of it. I'd be curious if that happens a lot with your clients that It's the same, literally the same descriptors.
Brad: You should do it. I'm curious to see what you write down. The version of that that I work with is I ask people, and we can play this game right now, it just takes 10 seconds. If you were going to describe yourself in one word, what would that word be? Caitlin, what word would you use?
Cait: Oh, curious.
Brad: How about you, Casey?
Casey: I don't know. I'm never good at these games.
Brad: So Caitlin, if you have to be curious, what's the opposite of curious?
Cait: Almost like lethargic, like don't, don't care at all. Yeah, just kind of aloof, I guess.
Brad: Okay, aloof. What would be good about being aloof?
Cait: Oh, not having so much like anxiety and trying to control everything and being blissfully unaware.
Brad: So, so when we decide that we have to be curious, right? It gives us, it gives us, like we're looking through a toilet paper tube at, at life in this particular way. And that creates this blind spot on the other side where If I have to be curious, then I can't be aloof. There are gifts there that we're missing out on, right?
Cait: Oh, totally.
Brad: How can we open that up a little bit? That's the way that I play with that two sides of the same coin idea.
Cait: That's cool. I was thinking like similar but different that if you're curious to a fault, what can that be? Versus like, like, what are the, what are the degrees or levels? But I love that exercise.
Brad: I love where you're going too, but I think most people are more in touch with the dark side of their strength than they are the bright side of their blind spot, right? So like, you could probably list off a million ways in which being curious is costing you things.
Cait: Oh yeah.
Brad: But when someone, when someone asked me this, I said strength was the word that I used to describe myself. And they said, well, what would it, what would be great about being weak? And I'm like, absolutely nothing. There's, what are you talking about? That's super crazy. And then while I was saying that, I thought, well, if I was weak, I could get help.
Casey: That's- I mean, I'm still in awe at how you picked one word. I'm going to be lost in that inquiry all day today. I'm like, what would that word be? I have a-
Brad: Super creative people have a hard time nailing things down because everything looks great, right? Like there's, we can't, we can't eliminate possibilities, but...
Casey: And she was just so sure of it. It was just so quick. Caitlin, I was like, wow, it would take me a year to get there.
Cait: In full transparency, I gave a speech about nailing down your word. And so, that was my word. That would, Casey, be like the opposite of when we're like, No, but tell us your real story. If I had to be put on the spot totally, I might still be.
Casey: And I'd be like, Okay, let's do it. Well, I know we're coming up on time, but Brad, since we just played your game, I would love to hear you just as we wrap out, maybe unpack for us a little bit, what your relationship is with your business. We talked about like that question that we prompted you just kind of stream of consciousness. And as I said, we usually set it up as really think about it as a partnership with another being. So think about all the power dynamics that are in it, the qualities, the characteristics, how you're seeing each other, how you're not seeing each other. You know, how it feels, what it's doing to your body, all the pieces that kind of come into that. And I'd be curious to hear a little bit more about that partnership as we close out.
Brad: Well, there was a, definitely a time in my life when I was an abusive relationship with my business. Like I used to have this joke. I would say that when you're self employed, you work for a crazy person. My boss would commit to things and I'd always go home and be like, what a jerk. Like, why would he commit to it? Like, I don't have time for that. Right? And so there, that, that was a big dynamic in my business at a certain time. And I think over the last four- ish years, we've done some work on our relationship, my business and I, and we've set some, some boundaries that we can both live with. I'm committing less time and energy to my business. And I'm asking my business to deliver more for me and kind of holding my business accountable to no, we need an income that's here. And that doesn't mean I'm going to work more to get that, right? We have to figure out how we're going to do that within the hours that I'm willing to give for the business. And I think in doing that, this was sort of paradoxical and I never would have thought of it if we weren't having this conversation, but in doing that, I've learned so much. I feel like the business is giving me a lot more opportunities to learn and grow, rather than having this idea that it's all about grinding and working hard and effort and heaviness. It feels a lot lighter than it used to.
Casey: Which just come to me comes back to some of how you were trying to control your way into happiness. Right. And now it's a releasing the control living lighter into the happiness.
Brad: My goal is definitely to be with what is as opposed to make something be a certain way.
Casey: Well, so cool. Is there anything else that you would want to share to kind of come to a close or make sure that you put into the conversation?
Brad: I said this at the beginning, before we started recording, I so admire the way that you guys lead with your heart out. It's very inspirational for me. I mean, you, you guys say that you're big fans. I'm a big fan of, of BWB. So I wanted to say that for sure. And if people want to join the newsletter, if you go to anchoradvisors.com/conversations, there should be a form there.
Casey: Yeah, on the website, Brad says the only email you'll look forward to and it's actually true.
Cait: Yeah, that's not marketing speak. That's for real.
Casey: No bullshit.
Brad: That's something a client told me and I'm like, I'm putting that on the website.
Casey: It's literally actually true. So, you know, just giving it a little extra plug back.
Cait: I did want to say too, I know we've both taken your assessment, your business growth assessment and have found it really helpful. So we'll make sure all that's in the show notes for people who listen and want to check it out. But it is true that when you find other people that speak your language, it's like, Oh my God, thank God, somebody else is in this world and gets it. And we've really feel like that. That's probably one of the many reasons we love your newsletter so much is, um, is it speaking directly to us, which, Spoiler alert. That's the point.
Brad: I'm glad you brought that up. My goal with that is for people to feel seen. I don't ask you for an email address. You can get the results just by taking the assessment. And I just want you to feel seen and to have some hints about where you could go. If you wanted to move to the next phase of growth.
Cait: Well, thank you. Thank you for joining us today. Hopefully this is the start of many more conversations too.
Brad: I agree. I would love to do it.
Casey: All right.
Cait: Thanks so much.
Brad: Thanks guys.