An invitation to live in the field of questions with Avery Janeczek Kalapa

What does it mean to be in relationship to questions? What does it mean to BE a living question ourselves?

Join us in honest conversation with Avery Kalapa (they/them) exploring the juicy, sometimes scary, and always revealing space that exists when we unhook from familiarity and open ourselves to new possibilities. 

"And so to be in a relationship with questioning to me is almost to be in a relationship with that deeper, more mystical spiritual truth element where it's like, what is actually true for me? And of course I can't help but relate this to transness because for me, the journey of gender has been very much a spiritual journey at uncovering, and a discovering and a turning towards, 'oh, what is this thing that is unknown but that is blooming? What is this seed that is planted in the dark but wants to bloom?' And I don't know what's going to grow, and I don't know what changes it may bring to my life, but I know it needs to bloom. "

Avery Janeczek Kalapa (they, them) is a Certified Iyengar Yoga Teacher,  community weaver at Sadhana Support Collective, and queer + trans wellness organizer; eRYT500, YACEP, BFA, with 20+ years experience. 

Celebrated for their enthusiasm, devotion, and depth of technique, Avery's teaching uplifts inner healing rooted in collective liberation.

They center integrative functional anatomy, nervous system regulation and stability to support queers and other counter-culture yoga lovers to break the burn out cycle, be nourished, strong, and spiritually powerful without bypassing the wisdom of their body and lived experience. 

Avery’s a parent, gardener, creator; a white, trans, nonbinary settler based in unceded Tiwa land, Albuquerque NM. 

In this episode you’ll hear:

• An exploration of the relationship of transness and questioning
• How answers can provide a false sense of security, while questions invite us into a deeper relationship with the unknown 
• What conditions are needed to allow us to enter into a state of questioning, and how Avery creates this environment in their yoga offerings and practice
• Why questions are key if we are interested in divesting from patterns, conditioning and trauma 
• How to cultivate the yogic teaching of Viveka ("discernment")
• Why it matters to have affirming yoga spaces, especially for folks who hold marginalized identities
• What possibilities "might open up if I’m allowed to want what I want? If I'm  allowed to need what I need, and let that be on the surface and not the subconscious? Where might that lead us?"

Connect with Avery:

• @yoga_with_avery
• yogawithavery.com 
• Sadhana Support Collective

Connect with BWB

• wearebwb.com
• @we.are.bwb
• Casey LinkedIN
• Cait LinkedIN
• BWB Linkedin

Be sure to subscribe on Apple or Spotify, and leave us a 5-star rating + review!

Podcast Song: Holding you by Prigida
Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
https://uppbeat.io/t/prigida/holding-you
License code: CELWR55ONTDIFRSS

Transcript

CASEY:  Welcome to the Questions to Hold podcast. I'm your host and BWB founder, Casey Carroll. In a world that often praises answers over questions, the act of holding a question is an act of resistance, presence, and devotion. In this podcast, I hold space for discussion at the intersection of life's biggest questions and our personal and professional worlds.

These are honest conversations with progressive leaders dedicated to questioning our institutions, igniting change, and provoking new possibilities. 

Join me for my next discussion.

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CASEY: Hello everyone and welcome to the Questions to Hold podcast. I'm already feeling, um, kind of giddy and lots of gratitude creeping up in my heart for being able to connect and bring Avery onto the show today. It was even sweet prepping for this and being able to drop in with each other a little bit to lead into this. So, coming into the episode, feeling incredibly grateful to be with whatever it is might come through in our conversation today. And I could say 1,000,001 things about how and why I love you so much, Avery. And instead of, um, inserting myself, I would love for you to introduce yourself in a way that feels true for you in this moment, knowing that that may feel different in any given context, but in whatever way feels true for you today and then we'll launch into some conversation from there. 

AVERY: Wonderful. Thank you so much for having me. And hello, anyone across time and space listening to this. I'm Avery Janisette-Kapala, they/them. I am on Unsated Tiwa Land, Albuquerque, New Mexico, and I am a trans non-binary queer white Yoga teacher. I am an Iyengar yoga teacher, really invested in the beautiful lineage of Iyengar yoga and I love to center queer and trans wellness in this form of rigorous spiritual embodied yoga practice. I've been practicing yoga for about 25 years and teaching. Next year will be my 20th year teaching. 

CASEY: Wow!

AVERY: And it's been such a beautiful path. So I'm really excited to join you today.

CASEY: Yeah, so happy to have you. And I love also that your yoga is accessible to folks all over different time and space too, because it's online, which is such a treat. So I know I love being in your movement practice, and I know we've had gifts of that throughout the business. So all of that's in the show notes for folks to check out too and learn more about your practice and, and the work in there and full. It's been such a gift to get to know you over the last couple of years in a variety of different contexts and you know, conversations. And I'm excited today cause I have a feeling like I think I'm gonna get to know you more in a different way all of a sudden. Like there's always that opportunity and I'm glad to be in it. I wanna start off with a question that I've been really curious to ask. Most of the folks who come on here, which is around what your relationship is to questions or you know, you can take that how you'd like. So it can either be what your relationship is to questions or what that makes you feel when you even get asked that. Thinking about all the way back to your childhood or how you were nurtured and if you were asked questions and if that was supported or anything, any direction that takes you. Just curious to set the foundation with that. 

AVERY: Sweet. Thank you. I enjoy this combination of words, the word relationship, and questions both juicy and I initially warm to this question of what is my relationship to questions, because to me, being in a state of questioning is to be in relationship with the unknown, which is so much of what yoga is about. In fact, there's a beautiful quote from B K s Iyengar that says, the known is finite, the unknown is infinite. Go more and more into the unknown. Which I believe the space where healing and transformation is possible. If the known relates to what is familiar, to the habit patterns in our nervous system, the familiar ways that we think and feel and identify, yoga is very much about the project of clearing out that conditioning or those patterns so that we can actually identify with something deeper that is beyond the surface level body, mind, material world. It's really pointing us in a spiritual direction. But with our sort of surface mind, our senses, and the way that we move through the world, we usually don't have access to that deeper spiritual dimension. And so to be in a relationship with questioning to me is almost to be in a relationship with that deeper, more mystical spiritual truth element where it's like, what is actually true for me? And of course I can't help but relate this to transness because for me, the journey of, uh, gender has been very much a spiritual journey at uncovering and a discovering and a turning towards, “oh, what is this thing that is unknown but that is blooming?

What is this seed that is planted in the dark but wants to bloom?” And I don't know what's going to grow, and I don't know what changes it may bring to my life, but I know it needs to bloom. So for me, questions relates to the unknown and a sense of faith. And it also makes me wonder, what do we need to be able to be in a state of questioning, like how regulated and secure and calm or relaxed do we need to be enough so we might be able to consider the unknown versus clinging to the known? Because, you know, to be in a state of questioning can be scary. There's a, a false sense of security that comes with knowing the answer. To have a question that's open-ended requires a certain amount of, of courage or maybe inner stability to where, “Oh, maybe, I don't know. Maybe there's more to know that I, at this point, haven't even thought about”. It's a, it's a vital state, and so then to be in relationship to that feels important as well, because if we're in relationship to something, It means that there's some space between us and it, right? Like there's something-There's me, and then there's the question, or there's me, and then there's this unknown possibility. And that again, is so helpful for locating, like, where am I in space? Where am I in time? Where am I in community, in relationship to others? I think questions are so important for us to figure out how to locate ourselves.

CASEY: Yeah, there was a few pieces, I, I couldn't agree more, and I was thinking in some of the workshops that we've been doing in this questioning space, it's come up almost every time around your question of really what is needed to be in a state of, in the question, to be in the inquiry, to be in the courage space. To be not clinging to the, the scarcity or the fear that can come up with the unknown and things like that. And also not projecting so far into the future into the answer, but really being in that, in between, holding space to it. And again, you know, no defined answer in the, in that, cuz I think everybody might need something unique in that. Um, but I'm curious. How in your yoga practice, you know, do you hold space for being in the unknown? Like, what are some of those conditions that you set up for your students and for yourself that give uh, the nervous system permission, give the self permission to kind of get curious and clear off like your naming into that unknown space? 

AVERY: Yeah. Great question and such an important one, right? Like how do we create the conditions so that transformation is possible? And paradoxically, I think, a sense of radical acceptance is a piece where, can we accept and through that then also be invested in transformation both at the same time? I think it can be really useful to name and normalize what is in the field, is, is a useful entry point because sometimes people show up, for instance, into an Asina class. We start doing things in the body. And all right away, there may be a sense of, ‘oh, I'm not feeling what I'm supposed to feel’, or ‘I don't know how to do this action’. ‘How do I externally rotate my thigh?’ And so then to normalize, ‘oh, I'm asking you to do something that is unfamiliar, because that alone is going to help shift your awareness out of your mind, into your body in a way that will start to change how the neuro patterns are formed in a way that will create possibility, right, to kind of move us into this state of inquiry’. And so it's very normal that it might feel confusing or even uncomfortable when you're trying to do a physical action that you don't know how to do. And so just to normalize that, it doesn't mean you're a failure actually, it means we're on the right path if we're moving into a state where things are unfamiliar or confusing, that actually is a sign that we're doing something new, which is exciting because if we're interested in freeing ourselves from the patterns of conditioning, of familiarity, of how, you know trauma and how we have coped with trauma, how all of that is playing out. If we're interested in divesting from that and experiencing something different, becoming more comfortable with unfamiliarity is super key, right? And so I like to describe that process and, and normalize what tends to come up in people's mind when, when we're entering into this work. Because I'm really, when I teach Asana, I want people to really get into their bodies. And if we're moving at the same, in the same ways that we always do, probably that won't happen. It's possible to do a whole yoga Asana sequence and not even really feel inside if you're just kind of go-flowing through doing the same old, same old. So it's really juicy, but it does require a certain capacity and courage to do things in a different or a new way. Which there's a million ways that could look right?

CASEY: One of the pieces I think is interesting to bring in at this point too, is that, you know, you hold classes and opportunities, retreats, different workshops, things for all folks, but particularly too, then you offer trans-centering and trans and queer dedicated spaces in that way. And I'm also just thinking about that as you're talking too, and about how that could potentially have affinity spaces in that way also could potentially be some of that setting up to be more comfortable in the unknown states or to be in that, in the practice differently when some of the other social dynamics and cultural norms and those kinds of pieces are, um, mindfully tended in the space as well. I'm curious if that is intentionally a part some of the dedicated space work that you're doing in retreats and otherwise. 

AVERY: Yeah, definitely. It's an incredible relief to take a break from sort of the atmospheric violence that exists for folks who hold layers of marginalized identity, and it's always intersectional. It's always multi-layered and multi-dimensional, and there is something very special about being in a space where you know the space has been tended and prepared for you by someone who maybe has experienced something similar. In order to, yeah, be able to be in a state of inquiry in order to relax and be in your body, a certain level of safety is required just to take off the layers of armor, and again, to name the norm. Like for many queer and trans people and, and people who hold other marginalized identities. I think there is a sense of armoring just to get through the world that can become so familiar, we forget the armor is there. It just feels so normal to be in a state of tension or bracing. We don't always realize how exhausting that is or kind of what the cost is. And so to be in a space, especially a shared space where you're affirmed, where you can start to notice, oh, I have this armor and have some support to start to take off those layers and discover the softness and the natural joy and relaxation that is in fact there, underneath all those layers, is a very precious process, and so I think trans people have a unique entry point because there already has been almost a deep listening and an inner inquiry of something from deep within that has informed truth. It's a truth that doesn't come from the outside. Like nobody tells you, oh, you're trans. Like it's, it's a deep inner knowing. And so that already creates access to, I believe some very, um, rich spiritual dimensions. And at the same time then of course there's particular ways, especially right now with all the anti-trans legislation, that the layers of stress and fatigue and isolation build up and compound. And so to have healing space that really can name and, yeah, and normalize and cherish the process of how we're supporting each other to cope with this and to transform and come back home to ourselves feels incredibly precious. I run an online yoga community called Sadana Support Collective, and the work that happens there is so beautiful. Sometimes it's incredible, even on Zoom in this online space, people are joining from all over. There is. A sense of Sanga, of intimate community where we're doing this deep excavation together. I believe co-regulation is possible actually when we're doing embodied work together. Even if we're not physically in the same room, there is some connection and it's incredibly beautiful to witness that. So yeah, it's, it's emergent. It's a constant experiment, and I keep being shown by the experience of being in those spaces that it really does work. My faith in the practice and how all of it really is transformative and creates possibility is so tangible and it keeps revealing itself. Like, oh yeah, this really is working, like really there is so much possible. Yeah. 

CASEY: Yeah. I'm thinking about the Sanga and the collective that you're naming, and also just from knowing you and how you often collaborate in your teaching as well, you know, co-facilitate and collaborate. And then there's a community aspect of the work too, and I'm wondering if you wanna speak at all to how you know community and that experience you're naming here is so crucial in terms of like centering trans wellness and some of the work that you're doing in that space, or what you're discovering from doing it in different constellations of community and co-facilitation, collaboration.

AVERY: Yeah, uh, the collaboration feels very key. And the ancient yogis, you know, sometimes there were the aesthetics who would go off in the cave and mostly people were in a community with mentors, teachers, disciples. There was debate, there was interaction, there was a sense of doing this inner spiritual work. But in community is, you know, for thousands of years this practice has been developed and so especially now, the hyper individual focused, mainstream wellness industry that's all about like self-care as this sort of isolated thing that you do competitively on your own as a checklist item– to also, I think to practice in community really pushes back on that really unhelpful pressure that that, oh, this, my yoga practice is something I should just go do by myself in my little echo chamber. Really, we learn so much when–There's also something about being in community where the transformation, the healing, the experiences we have, we're almost reorganizing and creating a new form. We're taking new forms when we do spiritual practice, and to feel it within yourself is one thing, but to have it reflected or affirmed by those around you really helps it set. Like if you've ever done dyeing, like clothes dyeing. There's, you know, you put the color in, but then there's this rinse cycle where you sort of set the dye and then the color becomes really lasting and strong. And I think there's something about practicing together that helps it set it, it helps us feel more solid in this new form. And of course I also have all my own limitations and my own, you know, patterns and fears and baggage and, you know, a lot of that relates to also race, like being a white person in this work. So I, I always am looking to collaborate. How can I leverage my privilege? How can I uplift and create space and share power? And that exploration feels very, nourishing and teaches me so much and helps me grow in the ways I feel like I need to grow. And so I love collaborating with other teachers. I often will look to collaborate with teachers of color as possible, not in a tokenized way, hopefully, but be able to build relationships, learn and grow together and see, oh, how can we, together, create something that is so much more responsive and nuanced and dynamic, and ultimately be able to serve people in such a deeper way than any of us could ever do on our own. There's a way that we do affinity work, where if there is the space, we can actually start to pull apart the threads of identity and go way beyond sort of what may initially be on the surface. And that can be just so rich and good for us. And so the word community is used so much, and I'm always in an inquiry in a question of like, what does community really mean now? And how, what is it that creates close, intimate connection that can last, that people can trust enough to be messy and, and to be in a growth edge and not feel they need to perform wokeness or perfectionism.But really be honest. And then how do we hold each other through that and hopefully deepen and it won't happen smoothly all the time, right? Like sometimes it's messy and sometimes it's scary and sometimes there's conflict and our trauma bumps up against each other, of course. And having a container and some skill and some having all of our combined skills and agreements. It's incredible then how we can work through things and grow together. It's so beautiful to witness. I also teach retreats and often they are either queer, trans or very queer, trans-centering and, um, heavy on the BIPOC centering as well. And for a retreat to, to have those aspects alone is disruptive to the norm for sure. And it's incredibly beautiful what transformation happens in such a short time when there is collaborative teaching, a skillful container. It's really powerful. You know, sometimes something like healing can seem like this really long-term overwhelming thing like, oh, never in our lifetime. But actually so much is possible with with skill and with humility and with collaboration and community and with practice, I think practice is so key when we look at all of it as a practice, not a destination. Really, like so much can happen, like people make huge shifts in transformations. It doesn't have to take a ton of time. Yeah. It's, it's beautiful. To know that that is possible.

CASEY: Yeah, and collect the evidence and see it over time too. And then you can trust that more and more and like lean into it. You know, I'm thinking about in conversations preceding this conversation we're having here too, but just that conversation it feels like lends itself into something. A question we've talked about before, which is really, how do you know, as you said, like I have limitations and there are these different pieces, like how do you what is yours to do? What is not yours to do? And then like a, a question attached to a question, like especially when you're in big work around transformation or disruption, how do you trust it's enough, the work that you're doing? And again, these are, these are questions to be holding, but I'm just curious if you have any wisdom from being in the inquiry of that or you know, noticings from being in that inquiry in your work. 

AVERY: I definitely don't have any answers on this and it's a very important question. There's a Sanskrit term in yoga, Viveca, which is discernment, and I think again, this practice of being in discernment is one for all of us to hopefully embrace. Ultimately the answer will not be out there for what it is that we should be doing. What is our purpose? What is my place in this? We do, of course, need each other. Sometimes we need an accountability process or a, the mirror of being in community or getting feedback. And ultimately I think we have to determine for ourselves, which then helps us root into a sense of agency and hopefully commitment to whatever it is we're doing. What is mine to do and what is not? And it's going to change moment to moment, right? Depending on our capacity, depending on our social location, who's in the space, who we're in relationship with, like what's mine to do is going to definitely shift depending on the context of like where I'm at and also my own capacity. And I think for us to take on a deep commitment to our own care and a secure connection with our inner self and cherishing our bodies and making sure we're not just trying to pour from an empty cup that is a, really, you know, everybody talks about it, but it is a really key piece because then I think that this discernment, this Viveca of what is mine and what isn't is so much easier to know if we're caught, if we're exhausted, if the nervous system is not regulated, it's so much easier, I think, for me, for sure, but also for others that I've seen to get caught up in shame or guilt, or I'm not doing enough. Oh, I need to be doing so much more. But then what we're doing is dispersed. It's not necessarily effective. It's not necessarily where our skill and heart is, or where we can have effective change, and then we can just get in a loop of feeling overwhelmed and like, oh, I'll give up because I, even if I try to do something, it's not making any difference. The discernment, I think, in a big way is where can we have impact? Where do we have responsibility and then where do we don't? It's a huge world. The internet is thriving with so much that is complex and hard to hear about and learn about, and we don't, we can't have a direct impact on so much. You know, can be incredibly disheartening and frustrating. And the fact is we do actually have an immensely huge impact on so much that we don't realize. Mm-hmm. And so my hope is that as people, as we can together, practice, be nourished, be in our bodies, be tuned into our nervous system on a more regular basis and in a more regulated place where we have a bit more capacity.

Then we can feel into, oh yeah, I need to respond to this. This is actually where I have some stake in the game. Oh, over here I'm gonna observe this and I really can't do anything about it. So maybe I'm not gonna pour a bunch of energy time attention there, because there I can't do a whole lot, right? And then, As we find where we can plug in, I think that can really help us feel better about the things that we don't have control over. It's one reason centering trans folks in my yoga practice feels so good because I can't affect all these bills. Sure. I can do some advocacy. I can encourage other people to advocate. And also there's so much that's just beyond my scope. And how useful is it to get really stressed out and anxious over things that are beyond, like I wanna know what's going on. And it's a balance. So if I can really focus on offering deep care for myself because I'm included in in it all, and then my students and those in my community, those I'm collaborating with, which includes so many trans people in all of those levels and layers and non-binary folks and queer community, you know, that's really where my heart is. And so the more I can do that, the more I feel resilient and sustained when I come up against the heartbreaking, abrasive things that are the bigger contexts that we're in. 

CASEY: Yeah, I think about what you're naming is so key and also just that, the being in the question of what is mine to do? What is not mine to do? How do I trust it is enough? And all the pieces you just shared really comes back to what I often talk about with questions, which is it is a, it is a discernment practice. It is a listening practice. It is a devotional practice. It is something to just be aware that there might be a question of what is mine, what is not? How do I trust it's enough? And to choose to be in relationship with that question, again, that's one of the main ingredients to then seeing how you live into that and all the other pieces that you start to, to name and the noticings you have around it and all of that. But it's just being, knowing that that question exists and then choosing to be in relationship with it as a guide in your life.

AVERY: Yeah. I love that you used the word devotion. It is, it is, I think, a spiritual practice to be in relationship to that question. It requires some trust and actually a clearing of certain aspects of ego, I would say.  And also it, it's a practice of presence on some level of mindfulness because it changes, right? Like what is mine and what is not? changes like what might be a really purposeful project that you're pouring everything into in a year may not be the thing, and that's okay. Like the, you know, our creations, our relationships, our projects have a lifespan and mm-hmm. Some of that we are in charge of, and then some of it isn't. All of it's a collaboration with the universe. Right? 

CASEY: Yeah. We say that often about, you know, we, we started saying it in terms of business as a devotional practice, but as specifically when we get into some of this, this questioning piece, that's where we've seen, and again, just reiterating, which you said at some point in here around it being a practice. Something that is practiced over and over, not something that is known or done once or anything like that, that it's, um, a practice that continues on. Well, knowing that we could talk for so much longer, and I've learned so much, just even being in this conversation with you today. I keep thinking about something you named in the early part around– Where you identified being in relationship to the question, right? So that there's like a question and you're in a relationship to it and there's this distance peak, which is so interesting of itself and it has led me in my own inner workings in my brain as we've been talking, thinking a lot about how and if there are opportunities where we are the question, right? Where it's not a separation, where it's not being in relationship to, and sometimes we'll talk about this in terms of like with BWB, like BWB is a question in the marketplace. It's asking a question in the marketplace. Multiple questions to be exact, um, but it is a question of itself. I could say that's true about how I feel in my life as well, but I'm just curious to hear you, if that lands for you in any particular way as we kind of come into a wrap on the conversation today. 

AVERY: Yeah, this is so juicy. When we are, the question, which is really I think points to a beautiful truth of existence in any space that we enter, where we're showing up on some level, if we are, especially maybe in an authentic, grounded place within ourselves, we are already sort of disrupting the fabric of the assumptions that already exist in this space right? Hopefully. And so it just makes me curious, what are the questions that are brought forth by my very existence? And am I willing to live in a way. Where I'm not squelching those questions where instead of trying to assimilate or play a certain role that I think has been that maybe the world has said, oh, if you play this role that will be your path to success, or then you'll belong, then you will be safe, whatever it is. What is it to say, oh, actually I think I already belong. I know I already belong in existence and I'm already safe within my own self and body enough in this moment to not need to maybe play a game or fit into some role that compromises who I know I am. And how I know the world to be, then so many questions emerge. And then are we willing to maybe be an embodiment of those questions without needing answers? Mm-hmm. Are we willing to share space with others where we can turn towards the questions that they are bringing forth instead of putting our own ideas and definitions on them, our assumptions, like what an amazing space that would be if we could live in the field of questioning more. Which I guess is the whole, uh, invitation of your podcast, but it's an exciting world to imagine because we are, we know so much about the current structures are not working. There's so much about this current social order and capitalism and the pace and the, so much, so much momentum behind all of these things that are not going to necessarily change fast, and yet we can find moments of freedom or liberation within that and start to carve out those spaces to experience something different. Look, this questioning feels like a really juicy piece of that. 

CASEY: Well, thank you so much, Avery. I could talk to you for so much longer and I hope that we get to many more times over. I wanna encourage everybody to check out the Sadana Support Collective and, um, in the show notes and support your work and support others who are going into your work and all of that will be included as well. And I know we look forward to continuing to support all the important space holding that you're doing and the questions you're living into. Is there anything that would help make you feel complete as the episode comes to a wrap here? Or any question you wanna loft out to the Questions to Hold community that is listening and likely deep in the conversation that we've had so far. 

AVERY: Yeah. Well, again, thank you for having me. And a very warm welcome. I hope everyone listening will come at least just try a class with me. Everyone can try a first class free, and I have a ton of awesome replays online as well. So come find me. Yogawithavery.com is the website or @yogawithavery on Instagram. There's always fun projects in terms of a question to lead you with. Let's see. I send out questions every week in Sadana Support. I love just being, yeah, in relationship to questions can be so juicy. I think that the question I'm feeling alive in me right now, what really is here is just like what possibility might open up if I'm allowed to want what I want, ifI'm allowed to really just need what I need and know that that's okay to let whatever that is, be on the surface and not push down into the subconscious. Where might that lead me? How might that change how I am even with myself and also with others? That's what feels really live for me in this moment.

CASEY: Thank you so much, Avery. We will be talking to you soon. 

AVERY: Yay. Thank you so much.

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CASEY: Thank you for listening to the Questions to Hold podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode and are leaving the conversation with way more questions than answers.

I invite you to build a more meaningful relationship with yourself and the world around you through the simple yet profound act of holding questions. Visit questionstohold.com and wearebwb.com to learn more about this practice, our Questions to Hold card deck, and explore more conversations. See you there.