Unpacking Partnership: On leaving a legacy & life's intentional decisions with Stephanie Schott

Stephanie Schott is the founder of Amplify, an organization committed to equipping companies with the mindsets and skills to navigate and thrive in today’s corporate environment. 

Join us for a conversation with Stephanie, where we discuss navigating the constantly changing terrain in our lives, and the impact of holding questions. We also discuss building in partnership (versus being an individual contributor), and the question Stephanie is holding around what it means to leave a legacy. 

In this episode you’ll hear about:

• Bringing awareness and provocation to your work, and working in partnership to do so
• Moving from an “advice monster” to “coaching leader”
• How to listen more, ask more, and give advice less
• Tapping into our authentic selves and bringing consciousness and awareness to this

SOCIAL HANDLES 

• Website: www.withamplify.com
• Social: stephschott__
• Email@ steph@stephanieschott.co
• Stephanie’s Substack 

SHARED RESOURCES

• Courtney Leak's website 
• Immunity to Change method, Robert Kegan and Lisa Lahey
• Shared consciousness (General McChrystal)
• The Coaching Habit by Michael Bungay Stanier

Connect with BWB

• wearebwb.com
• @we.are.bwb
• Casey LinkedIN
• Cait LinkedIN
• BWB Linkedin

Be sure to subscribe on Apple or Spotify, and leave us a 5-star rating + review!

Podcast Song: Holding you by Prigida
Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
https://uppbeat.io/t/prigida/holding-you
License code: CELWR55ONTDIFRSS

Transcript

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Casey:  Welcome to the Questions to Hold podcast. I'm your host and BWB founder, Casey Carroll. In a world that often praises answers over questions, the act of holding a question is an act of resistance, presence, and devotion. In this podcast, I hold space for discussion at the intersection of life's biggest questions and our personal and professional worlds.

These are honest conversations with progressive leaders dedicated to questioning our institutions, igniting change, and provoking new possibilities. 

Join me for my next discussion.

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Hello all and welcome to the Questions to Hold podcast. This season, we're doing something special. We are going to be hosting a limited edition series on the questions surrounding unpacking partnership.

Cait: I'm Cait. I'm Casey's BWB partner for those who have not met me. We're super excited that we're going to be in conversation around partnership with a variety of folks and the questions central to what partnership means to them.

Casey: So as part of the series, we're going to be interviewing a variety of people that have impacted our story, either Caitlin's individually, mine individually, or ours collectively as part of BWB, as well as people that we've met out in the world with really unique points of view around partnership and how that impacts our lives.

Cait: We're really excited that you're here. Thanks for listening.

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Cait: Hello everyone. And welcome to today's episode of Questions to Hold. We are focusing on all things partnership. And today I am thrilled to be joined by Stephanie Schott. Stephanie is the founder of Amplify, an organization committed to equipping companies with the mindsets and skills to navigate and thrive in today's corporate environment. Welcome to the show. Stephanie. 

Stephanie: I am thrilled to be here. How are you?

Cait: I'm great. And I'm very excited. You know, Stephanie and I met through a friend who is an ultra connector, a couple, maybe it's been like six months or so. And we had some really wonderful conversations via zoom. And then we had the pleasure of meeting in person, I think it's like two months ago now. So I'm excited to be diving in and learning more about you, if, and for listeners today, I'm curious if there's anything else you'd want to share about yourself by way of introduction. 

Stephanie: Yeah, absolutely. I know the way we met was really Kismet, wasn't it? It's kind of evolved. So I'm excited to go deep with you today. Okay. So for folks listening, I am the founder of Amplify. Um, and it is a company that is focused on helping corporate businesses grow and adapt in really today's environment and our lever, right, because a lot of people are, or a lot of businesses are in the helping businesses to evolve and adapt industry, but our levers are really helping individuals and teams, um, evolve their mindsets and ways of working to navigate this kind of complexity. And it's not new to me. I've been doing this work for over a decade now, kind of a joke that I've been working in the industry of disruption and transformation. And first with a company called Bionic, which I helped build and ultimately sell. And that was a really interesting company. It was, it was founded on this idea that venture capitalism and entrepreneurship are forms of management. And we worked with companies like Procter and Gamble, Target, Citigroup, and Nike, and to help them really unpack what growth meant to them, what innovation meant in a world that was rapidly changing. So we grew the business over the course of eight years. We worked with gosh, over 40 Fortune 500 companies. Had a case study written about us by Harvard Business School, which is great. Um, and then as I mentioned, we, we sold to Accenture. So it was really a wild ride. And then of course, you know, the pandemic happened. It gave me the opportunity to be very intentional about what I wanted to do next. And my biggest takeaway from that work is actually disruption. And ultimately the, the kind of subsequent organizational transformation that must take place in response is not just strategic. It's deeply personal. So 10 years ago, companies were worried about being disrupted where companies like Citigroup, right? They were getting beat out by FinTech or Procter and Gamble, emerging CPG startups, come, you know, taking advantage of the fact of cloud computing and the fact that you can start it, a company in less than two hours. And so it was, it was isolated. And now since the pandemic, we've really seen the impact of volatility, uncertainty, complexity, ambiguity, and it's affecting every single company of every size. When I think about the response, you know, five or eight years ago when we walked into the office of the CEO of some of these companies, their response when we were saying effectively, everything you've been taught is necessary but not sufficient. Their response was fear naturally, right? Because everything they've done up until this point got them to where they were. And it was almost like being told you're about to set forth on an entirely new voyage and you don't have a map. You have nothing of your creature comforts or things that have gotten you to this place. And when I think about that in the context of what most leaders are facing today, it's really scary. And so that's what we really focus on. How do you navigate this new terrain where change is constant and do so with complete intentionality and resilience at three levels, which is really the individual, right? Yourself, how do you lead yourself through this, which is a big part of it? Probably most of it. How do you lead your teams through it? And then ultimately how do you lead your business? 

Cait: That's so interesting. I want to know just, and this is out of my own curiosity, but I'm sure others will have the same curiosity is how did you get into this field that you're in? So, you know, you're talking a lot about like corporate change and all the things that feed into that, like. mindset navigating what, it, what happens when fear rises up and you're talking about agility and innovation and all these kind of intersecting ideas and I'm curious like how did you get Into that kind of work, 

Stephanie: I guess it was really by happenstance. But if I look retrospectively, I think I have been building towards this my entire life. I studied psychology in college and I focused both on first neuropsychology, so really understanding the biological basis of human behavior, but I pivoted to industrial organizational psychology because I realized that human beings for the most part exist in a collective. Right? And I didn't want to study an individual. I wanted to study an individual in context of their environment and their ecosystem. Obviously I graduated and I was like, where do you go from, to be frank, like this, this is a very new industry. It really just started coming together in the past decade or so. I was fortunate enough to meet with a couple of founders that had just exited their respective startups. And they were asked actually by the former chairwoman and CMO of GE to come in and bring venture capitalism to their executive so that they can better position capital to meet the future and to teach the kind of ways of working of entrepreneurs to employees. So it was more customer centric and agile. And I heard that and thought, Man, like, that's exactly what I want to do. And so I, it was really through happenstance that I came across these two folks and joined and, and, you know, we, we took on something that we, I don't think even really understood because we weren't consultants and we didn't build a traditional consulting firm, actually. You know, one of the things that I love about the name of this podcast is the focus and emphasis on questions. It was so core to our identity at Bionic. We were not consultants, we were partners. And we, we, we referred to our customers as partners, not clients very specifically because we didn't want to go in with the answers. We wanted to ask the right questions. That brought them to the right next step. So it was more about helping them to think, be provocative, um, bring in some external stimuli and, and things like that, but it was really about coaching them to understand what was right for their business. And that model is something that I believe deeply in, even if you're not in a traditional consulting role, right, you're always going to have that, that pressure to come up with the right answers. And so as I stepped in formally into a coaching role, you know, before Amplify, but then especially in Amplify, I have to continue to remind myself, do not come in with the answers, ask the right questions that help them get to the answer, because there's almost inevitably a better third option. And when you ask the questions, you can arrive at it together, which is a really magical thing.

Cait: Yeah. And it's interesting, cause when we talk a lot about holding questions, it's also about the practice of asking it as an ongoing practice, truly, because as you named earlier, the context is what's going to shift as well as many things, right? It's, every day is a new day. Every moment's a new moment. And so I love that you bring that into the work and I'm curious. If you want to talk a little bit about what type of work you are doing with Amplify either now, or what you're hoping that the company that you're building is going to offer. 

Stephanie: So being in the, the trenches, I'll call it, of traditional organizational transformation, was built on kind of classic change management, which was very top down, very systematic. You know, are these neat models of step by step change? And we all know what happens when we ask human beings to change. They typically lose their minds. And so, and also there is a huge industry of companies that is still, that are still being asked to step in because we need this capability. So Amplify has a big ambition and a kind of experiment that we're running, which is if you change the mindset of the person you're working with, and you equip them with the practices to show up in a way that is aligned, both internally kind of what we should be thinking, feeling and doing, and then also externally, what we should be thinking, feeling and doing with our teams, then you don't have to force change. Change will be organic. It will happen, you know, bottoms up by definition. That's really the kind of experiment that, or the thesis that we have. And the way in which we do that is we bring provocation and awareness to organizations. So we had mentioned like, part of asking questions is the practice of asking questions. And really underneath that is being present enough to not jump to the conclusion, to not jump to the answer. And more often than not, companies aren't present. People within organizations are not present because rightfully we have a thousand things to do in a finite amount of time. And when we bring in this provocation, it's about awareness, cultivating awareness, waking up to the fact that our leadership toolkit is, is again, no longer sufficient, that our behaviors actually could be counterproductive to our intent. And when we do that, we create a very deliberate tension, right? And then we guide them through the evolution. And that has to happen at the individual level in order for them to move forward. And so that comes through individual coaching, group coaching. We are a huge fan of this idea of embedding L & D as a capability, or learning and development as a capability. We really believe that learning is the most important quality and capability that has to be built into the DNA of companies. And we took we took a lot of inspiration from Satya Nadella at Microsoft who shifted his organization from a knowing organization to a learning organization, but learning cannot be something that's done by HR over to the side, it has to be integrated into the way that we live, breathe and work together. Interestingly, Robert Keegan and Lisa Leahy have done a lot of work on both adult development and adult learning, and they profiled a few different companies that have embedded this principle of learning into their organization. They're called deliberately developmental. And so we bring in a lot of practices that are leveraged by companies like Bridgewater Associates, High Morning Star, as a way to take the bonus off of a centralized function and also celebrate the collective wisdom. If I get a group of five people in one company and I ask a question, chances are I'm not gonna be the one with the best answer. They are going to be able to teach themselves. And so my role, our role becomes one of facilitating awareness and knowledge exchange, which naturally, people are really smart when they, when they wake up and they get the right provocation and inspiration, they'll naturally problem solve together and move forward and evolve and adapt. And so that's a lot of what we do. And we do a lot of off sites workshops to really create the space again, to slow down, to embed some of these new principles. And when when you think about neuroplasticity, right, it's not enough to think about the changes you want to make. You also have to implement new behaviors. And so we have borrowed from all of these amazing companies, um, predominantly decentralized autonomous organizations, Silicon Valley, Agile, Extreme Programming. And we have a repository of really interesting practices that we bring to leaders that can help them again, move from a knowing leader to a learning leader, or a leader that is maybe not quite aware and is moving really fast. Um, or some of these other pitfalls that are, by the way, innate, right? They're just, every human being is subject to that because we're just at the end of the day, we're, we're beautiful meat suits. We're complicated. 

Cait: Well, that's so interesting. I'm very fascinated and I, I love this idea that you're reviewing everything, all this, you know, really rich information that's available that you've probably studied in school or that you've learned over the years and you're really like putting it into this cauldron of, you know, what can we leverage here for each leader or person individually? I know you told me that not only is disruption strategic, but it's very deeply personal. And I wonder if you'd want to talk about that, like any kind of, I don't know if there's any stories that stick out even where you're thinking of maybe some of the one on one coaching work you've done, or even in small groups, how some of that deeply personal connection to the work or to the world or to their life is impacting the work that they're doing in the world. 

Stephanie: Good question. So one of the mindset shifts I talk a lot about is this idea of taming your advice monster, which comes out of Michael Bungay Stanier's work. And he does an exceptional job of distilling the coaching habit for the context of leader for anyone who's not familiar with this work. And the shift is really from taming your advice monster to becoming a coaching leader, one that asks the right questions, um, as opposed to jumping in with the answers. And I use a tool called immunity to change a lot in both my one to one coaching and my group coaching. And the tool was actually built by Keegan and Leahy because they realized that we as human beings. We, we want to change and we need to change and they reference the story and this comes out of the, the medical field where patients are told that you are at risk of dying because of cardiovascular disease. And if you don't make these changes, stopping smoking stop drinking, you know, starting to work out diet all these things, you will die. And can you guess how many people actually make changes?

Cait: I have no idea. If I had to guess, I would say maybe a small amount. 

Stephanie: One out of seven. So when it's a, it's a literal matter of life or death, people don't change. And they were really interested in that. And what they effectively realized is we have hidden assumptions and hidden commitments that prevent us from making these changes. So if you bring this back all the way to this idea of, of moving from a advice monster to a coaching leader, this is particularly relevant to someone that I have been coaching and that this person's organization is going through a massive transformation, right? The entire role of, of their function is changing and they have a history of being the best of what they do. And so naturally, when her team comes to her, she'll jump in and say, here's what you're going to do, you know, you have, dominates conversations, you know, 80 percent of the meetings, it's her talking at them. And, and she's very aware of this and she wants to change it. So we started working together and she was like, I really want to move away from this because ultimately what we see compounded over time is when you jump in with solutions, you create codependency. Teams stop thinking for themselves. They just that, you know what, she's going to give us the answer anyway, we'll just wait, which is a death wish when it comes to empowering others, building engagement, and also scaling your business. So we, we start doing this immunity change work and I said, okay, so what is your commitment? She said, I want to listen more and ask questions more and give advice less. And when we went through the exercise, what we realized is one of her assumptions is that by not having the answers, she's going to be perceived as being foolish, not equipped, not capable. And especially when you think about the gendered roles and expectations around a woman in leadership, there's even a higher degree of needing to feel like you should be there. Right? And so you have these two diametrically opposed desires, which is I want to listen more. And I also want to be perceived as effective. And those two things in her brain, she didn't realize it, were opposing each other and preventing her from making those changes. And that's really at the core of this work, which is unpacking it and then redefining. And so very simply, and this is where the role of neuroplasticity is so important and effective in making this change. Make a commitment to not looking foolish, make a commitment to not looking like you don't know it, right? In fact, the best leaders, the most successful leaders ask the hard questions, that's a more difficult role to play as opposed to just throwing out solutions or answers or advice. And so it took her redefining what success looks like in the context of her world and her experiences for her to let go of that. Now, of course, it takes practice right over and over and over again. But the good thing is our brains will change right neurons that fire together wire together. And in this case, if you just develop the practice of, before I jump in with one opinion, I'm going to ask two questions, it changes the whole trajectory of how you show up. You just start building it in. And then over time, you really do step into more of a coaching leadership. And then all of a sudden your people are growing, they're engaged, they're motivated, they're happy, and you're happy because you're not in the weeds with them.

Cait: Yeah, that's such a good story. I'm thinking of, my brain is going in so many directions as you're sharing and one thing was this kind of like, almost like circles or rings of all the different conditioning and learning that has happened to every individual throughout the course of their lifetime, with everything from the macro level of like, this is your place on this earth all the way through, or in this universe and beyond, right? Spirituality and all, everything beyond that. But then also down to this like, very micro level of being within maybe an organization that has thought a certain way for a long time or behaved a certain way and like how likely I'd imagine some of your work is in all those different levels of raise-, you know, kind of bringing awareness, I suppose, to these different constructs and what role people can play within themselves, within their partners that they may have, their teams, their clients, you know, so on and so forth. So I love that example because it brings in all these different levels and layers of where change can have an impact. 

Stephanie: You're exactly right. And there's even a mental model that I draw a lot for my clients, which is, the smallest circle that we have is our authentic selves. That is the vehicle, the person we were born into this world, right? We didn't, we weren't born into this world addicted to being right. We're struggling to, you know, do something right. We were born very authentically into like a unique human being. But to your point, the next level is, what are all of the experiences that we've had? What stories have we been told about the world or about ourselves, right? If I am a girl and I want to be successful, I have to speak up, right? That is a story that was told to me and told to many others, which is counterproductive at a certain point in your career. And so it's about understanding all of those narratives and you're right, there's also these sub narratives, it's all cultural and then there's also within the organization themselves. And then what ends up happening is we develop a third layer of personality that becomes our vehicle for navigating this world safely, understanding with the with the understanding of those stories that we know right? This is safe, this isn't safe to do. This is going to cause shame, this isn't going to cause shame, whatever that is. And what happens over time is the incongruence between your authentic self and your personality can grow so much that it feels literally uncomfortable to be alive, right? And that's where we go and we seek medicators, whether that's disassociating or traveling or drinking or whatever it is numbing out. And so a lot of this is bringing consciousness to the levels, to figure out who are you authentically and how do you bring that inside of the organization? What are the stories that we may need to rewrite and rescript and from your personality, what are the things that are really strong and good and will help you meet those goals and what are some of the corresponding blind spots? Because with every up, there's always a down. 

Cait: Do you think there's anybody, cause I can certainly relate to some of those. narratives that you're sharing of things I've been told, I think back, I worked at an organization for 10 years, so I find myself thinking sometimes of things that I learned there, and I'm like, oh, that was specific to that organization, but it's so ingrained in me at this point, because I just spent so much time there, but um, that aside, I wonder if there's any specific people or partners or role models that you can think of that have helped you navigate your own journey. Obviously, you're very entrepreneurial, which is really exciting, um, to hear from you and learn from you. So I'm just curious who you might want to name, or maybe there's a few folks that have contributed to how you got where you are. 

Stephanie: Yeah. First I want to acknowledge this role of partnership too, because really, at the end of the day, you can't do this work in isolation. And what I mean by this work, I mean the understanding of yourself. It happens most clearly in relationship to others. And so partnership is the way that I evolve, I grow. In this particular case, I'm going to be very vulnerable and share that probably the most impactful person. I mean, not probably, hands down is my therapist, Courtney Lee, who helped me understand all of this and who by role modeling this work for herself has been able to guide me through my own deep journey. And I, I started working with her a few years ago, but I went to her in 2022 and I said, Courtney, I'm starting a business. And I know what that means. I know that this company will be a direct reflection of who I am and my interior journey and who I'm becoming. And I need to make sure that I am doing the work to bring a healthy organization into this world. And so this is really where the work for me began of understanding how all of this comes together and to watch then her navigate with intentionality, with slowness, right ,of choosing what is and is not aligned to your life. That has been by far personally, the most impactful person who has demonstrated this to me. 

Cait: That's beautiful. And it's definitely, I'm sure many people listening could probably relate to finding someone who can help navigate when you're going through a big change like that or making a big decision. So that's really beautiful that you have that relationship with Courtney and that she's been able to help you birth this new brand with the same sort of intentionality that she's, you know, given to you in your conversations. So that's, that's fantastic. 

Stephanie: And the reality too, is you really need a group of people. You need a committee, especially when you don't have a partner building this business with you, which I really do not recommend. Like building a business in isolation as a sole founder is, is hard, very, very hard. And you lose a lot of opportunity for constructive debate. And so I consider Courtney to be one of many people that I go to for very deliberate conversation about what is and is not. And so in many ways, and this has been a pattern in my entire, my life because I have done things in a fiercely independent way. I'm not married. I bought my first house at 28. It was a fixer upper 1877 farmhouse in upstate New York. And I remember that in absence of having that kind of traditional partner, I needed to partner with everyone. I needed to set that stage with contractors and say like, listen, I am not the customer. I'm not, and I'm not going to sit here and tell you what to do. You are the expert in your field. Let's work together to figure out what the best way forward is. Any vendors, my cleaning crew, like all of these people, they are my committee. They helped me navigate this life and keep everything together. And so I really believe strongly in this idea that we have to navigate these things in partnership. And I talk a lot about it with my clients because, we-- this may be a U. S. centric principle, but I don't think it's necessarily true. We're taught how to be very, very good individual contributors, like rugged individualism, right? Like we get our first grades at like second or third grade, and it's like, Oh, you did this well, or you didn't and it introduced this concept of ego orientation early on. And we carry that through our careers, right? It becomes how can I win, not how can we win? And so a lot of the work that I'm doing also is moving people away from ego orientation, me, me, me, zero sum game, this is about winning-- to a mastery orientation. How can I be the best at what I am trying to do in partnership with the collective around me? Because there's absolutely no way I'm going to be able to do this myself, especially as the complexity around us continues to get more and more nuanced and amorphous. 

Cait: It reminds me of what you were saying earlier. It sort of links back into this idea that when you get a group of people together, sometimes facilitating that dialogue between them is really the main thing that's needed, or maybe all that's needed in the same way that I'm sure if I were to be trying to renovate a home, I probably would need to lean on a million different people to help me do that.

So I think bringing people together in that way, not having to be the, the lead, the, you know, the expert, but say, here's what I'm trying to accomplish, let's get the right people together to share points of view and ideas. That sounds like it's all connected and weaved together.

Stephanie: It's funny you say that. You just basically took the words out of Ubert Jolie's mouth, who was the former CEO of Best Buy. And I went to go see him last week. He had a fireside chat in Boston, and he was talking about this idea that leaders, the role of a leader has changed so much. It's not about being the best of, it's not about me. It's not about having the answers, the knight in shining armor. It is about creating the conditions for the people around you to do their best work and to create what General Stanley McChrystal calls shared consciousness. Here's where we're going. Here's where I need, I know we need to go, but really you all have much more information. And together we have a fuller picture of the right data. We need to make informed strategic decisions. 

Cait: Mm-Hmm.

Stephanie: And it takes an enormous amount of humility to stand up in front of people and say, listen, I'm not going to be able to tell you exactly where we're going and how we're going to get there. But believe me and trust in me, you should follow me into the dark. 

Cait: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I can't even imagine being a CEO of a massive company like that, doing, having to win everybody over in that way. And with that leadership, I do want to ask one last thing before we wrap or actually second to last question is, can, do you want to talk about what you've been building at Ellingwood?

Stephanie: Oh yes. So Ellingwood. Okay. So in doing this, this coaching work, I realized that I realized two things. Most individuals in leadership positions actually need focused development work, and it's not just professional development, it's not just tactical or technical skills, it's adaptive skills like mindset shifts and personal development, which is what aspects of my personality are adaptive and what aspects of my personality are maladaptive. And again, it's personal, deeply personal work. And I recognized a couple of things. One, they don't have time to do that and they don't have access to the resources to be able to get in. Everyone can find a therapist, but they're not always super effective and efficient and helping people to navigate into the future. And so I wanted to create a space for leaders to come in and really, that's all it is, it's space with a bit of provocation and they have access to, to a kind of hand selected group of wellness practitioners, whether that's somatic therapy or talk therapy. I believe a lot in experiential therapy and third wave cognitive behavioral techniques. Um, and then we also have Reiki and masseuses and just wonderful things where you can spend a weekend instead of a week, right? And you can go upstate as opposed to, to Mexico or somewhere else. And reset and ask yourself the question, what am I doing today that's working? And what am I doing today that's getting in the way of my goals? We do a bit of coaching, but it's also, it's interestingly, it's a self directed retreat. I'm not there. I jump in, other practitioners jump in and are there with you at periods of time, but there's a lot of self directed forest bathing and journaling prompts and meditation. So you can really get the space you need to just think and that's it. They, every single time they walk out and they're like, I had the biggest aha. And I know exactly what I need to do. They just needed a certain set of conditions. 

Cait: That's beautiful. And spoiler alert to anyone listening, that's where BWB is having our retreat this April. 

Stephanie: I'm so excited to host you.

Cait: Well, thank you for all your wisdom and taking the time to share. My last question is, is there any question that you're holding currently or um, have been holding that You'd want to share with listeners and related to that. Is there anything else you want to share with the audience before we wrap? 

Stephanie: So, I can maybe answer it in one go. I, the question that I am holding this year, and I probably will hold it for the rest of my life is what do I want my legacy to be? 

Cait: Wow. 

Stephanie: And it's a huge question. And I believe that if we start with this question, the decisions we make on a day to day basis, can serve to be more powerful because they can intentionally bring us to the legacy that we want to create so much of the decisions we make, we make unconsciously, and I wrote about this in my Substack. And so if anyone's interested in the concept of the personal legacy, they can go in and check that out. It's "Upon Reflection" by Stephanie Schott. And that is an ongoing question that I will probably continue to write about, um, in perpetuity. 

Cait: Well, thank you so much. That is, we will absolutely share that in the show notes too. I'm sure many people will want to read about that and thank you again for joining us and sharing everything. We look forward to seeing you again in person, of course, and we'll also share all the ways that we can folks can connect with you beyond this episode. So thanks again. 

Stephanie: Awesome. Thank you. It was so lovely to chat with you and I look forward to seeing you soon.

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Casey: Thank you for listening to the Questions to Hold podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode and are leaving the conversation with way more questions than answers.

I invite you to build a more meaningful relationship with yourself and the world around you through the simple yet profound act of holding questions. Visit questionstohold.com and wearebwb.com to learn more about this practice, our Questions to Hold card deck, and explore more conversations. See you there.