Unpacking Partnership: Letting partnership evolve with Sally Ekus Artwork

Questions to Hold with Casey Carroll

Welcome to the Questions to Hold podcast hosted by BWB founder, Casey Carroll. In a world that praises answers over questions, the act of holding a question is an act of resistance, presence and devotion. In this podcast, we explore the intersection of life’s biggest inquiries and our personal and professional worlds. Whose story are you telling? What impact are you having? Are you happy? Tune in for honest conversations with progressive leaders and entrepreneurs dedicated to questioning our institutions, igniting change, and provoking new possibilities. Join us for our next discussion.

All Episodes

Questions to Hold with Casey Carroll

Unpacking Partnership: Letting partnership evolve with Sally Ekus

July 02, 2024 • BWB

0:00 | 36:41

Join us for a conversation with Sally Ekus (she/her), where we discuss what it means and looks like to let partnership evolve alongside our life and business needs and desires.

Sally Ekus is a Senior Literary Agent at JVNLA where she spearheads The Ekus Group, a boutique culinary division specializing in cookbook and lifestyle titles. She represents a wide range of culinary, health, wellness, and lifestyle talent, from first-time cookbook authors to chefs, restaurant owners, professional food writers, bloggers, online creators, and journalists. On the non-culinary side, Sally represents books about caregiving and parenting, and is expanding into select other non-fiction genres. From concept to contract, she has brokered over 300 book deals with top publishers including Penguin Random House, HarperCollins, Hachette, Simon & Schuster, and numerous indie publishers. Sally also hosts an online community called How to be a Cookbook Author where she posts a wide range of general publishing news, agency programing, and facilitates connections among the community.

Sally loves cooking and conceptualizing new spicy dishes. She is a dedicated supporter and previous board member of The Leukemia and Lymphoma Society New England Chapter and currently sits on the board of Happier Valley Comedy. She is an active member of The Women’s Presidents’ Organization Hartford chapter, International Association of Culinary Professionals, Women’s Media Group, The Association of American Literary Agents, and the Cherry Bombe Bombesquad among other organizations. She is a mom, taco lover, and improvisor.

In this episode you’ll hear about:

Why partnership and collaboration are central to all client relationships
How to build a succession plan in business partnership
The potential of business mergers and acquisitions
Navigating changing needs in family business

SOCIAL HANDLES

Connect with BWB

Be sure to subscribe on Apple or Spotify, and leave us a 5-star rating + review!

Podcast Song: Holding you by Prigida
Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
https://uppbeat.io/t/prigida/holding-you
License code: CELWR55ONTDIFRSS

Casey: Welcome to the Questions to Hold podcast. I'm your host and BWB founder, Casey Carroll. In a world that often praises answers over questions, the act of holding a question is an act of resistance, presence, and devotion. In this podcast, I hold space for discussion at the intersection of life's biggest questions and our personal and professional worlds.

These are honest conversations with progressive leaders dedicated to questioning our institutions, igniting change, and provoking new possibilities.

Join me for my next discussion.

–

Hello all and welcome to the Questions to Hold podcast. This season, we're doing something special. We are going to be hosting a limited edition series on the questions surrounding unpacking partnership.

Cait: I'm Cait. I'm Casey's BWB partner for those who have not met me. We're super excited that we're going to be in conversation around partnership with a variety of folks and the questions central to what partnership means to them.

Casey: So as part of the series, we're going to be interviewing a variety of people that have impacted our story, either Caitlin's individually, mine individually, or ours collectively as part of BWB, as well as people that we've met out in the world with really unique points of view around partnership and how that impacts our lives.

Cait: We're really excited that you're here. Thanks for listening.

–

Casey: Welcome to the Questions to Hold podcast. I'm your host and BWB founder Casey Carroll in a world that often praises answers over questions. The act of holding a question is an act of resistance, presence, and devotion. In this podcast, I hold space for discussion at the intersection of life's biggest questions and our personal and professional worlds.

These are honest conversations with progressive leaders dedicated to questioning our institutions. Igniting change and provoking new possibilities. Join me for my next discussion.

Hello all. And welcome to the Questions to Hold podcast this season. We're doing something special. We are going to be hosting a limited edition series on the questions surrounding unpacking partnership. I'm Kate.

Cait: I'm Casey's BWB partner. For those who have not met me, we're super excited that we're going to be in conversation around.

Partnership with a variety of folks and the questions central to what partnership means to them.

Cait: We're really excited that you're here. Thanks for listening.

Casey: Hello everyone and welcome to the Questions to Hold podcast, the special edition series, where we get to talk all about partnership, what it is, what it looks like, how we do it successfully, and all the different questions and opportunities that live inside partnership in business and in other dimensions of, of our life and of creativity. So today I am really excited to have Sally Ekus, Sally, we were just reminiscing, um, starting this call. Sally and I go way back to Ithaca College where we went to school together and we're often confused as being maybe the same person and perhaps even use the same fake ID together all the way back in the heyday, talk about partnership all the way to its origin roots. And then fast forward many years later, we were able to reconnect under her agency at the time, which was the Ekus Group and BWB to really leverage each other's skills and support some new thought leaders and thinkers in getting their words and their voice out into the world through published writing, which I'm sure Sally's going to talk more about today. I won't go into too much other than I'll let Sally introduce herself, but it's been such a treat to get back into partnership. And I just want to contribute that to the beginning of this episode, which is that there can be like so much time between potential partners and collaborators in your life and the ways in which we kind of always circled each other's orbit and then we're able to kind of come back in and then there's a whole new potential that we've just started to kind of tap in of what partnership can be like in this era of our life is really cool. So I'll kick it over to you to introduce yourself and then we'll get into all the juicy things about your journey so far.

Sally: Thanks, Casey. It's so fun to be having this conversation with you. I mean, to have a professional conversation under the context of partnership and to know that the catalyst for that appreciation and ethos was fostered in college is a really, just, it's a really special thing. And I, and I'm, it's not lost on me to, to be connecting today to have this conversation. I am a senior literary agent now at an agency called JVNLA, the Jean V. Nagar Agency, and that is a new position as of January of 2024. Up until January, I was the president and lead agent at the Ekus Group, which obviously is the same last name that I have, and it was an agency started by my mom, Lisa Ekus, 43 years ago. And the Ekus Group is still in operation and it is now under the broader agency of JVNLA. Uh, we, we merged in January, which we can talk about. Um, so the topic of partnership is something that I've been living and breathing, uh, with my mom. As a second generation family run company up until very recently.

Casey: Yeah, it's so amazing. And I definitely want to get into kind of the pieces of, of where you are now and of the merging and of all the kind of potential that that partnership and opportunity has opened up for you. But I am so curious. It's so unique to actually start from obviously you and your mom have had a partnership since you were born in, in your personal life, but like how it just would be so curious to hear you talk a little bit about what that journey was to even decide to partner with your mom in, in the Ekus Group and how you go from the kind of that personal realm into the professional and kind of balance both of those and, you know, where you were equally at in your careers at the time.

Sally: Yeah, so I'll give you a little bit of background too, in that the Ekus Group group has an almost exclusive culinary focus, and we have since the beginning. So we are, Lisa started the agency as Lisa Ekus Group Public Relations, and we handled PR for chefs and cookbook authors and other culinary professionals. And as the industry, and by industry I mean, the culinary industry and culinary publishing industry has evolved, the agency's offering evolved as well. And so Lisa did PR, then she did the culinary media training. She worked as at what now is essentially a talent manager, but at the time it was called spokesperson representation. And then sort of the newest offering to our clients into our roster was as a literary agent, meaning working with clients and authors to cultivate a book idea, develop it and chop it and present it and pitch it and negotiate book deals with publishers. So she's built this culinary empire essentially and carved out a real expertise in the culinary and lifestyle space. And I was on a completely different path at Ithaca. I was a sociology major. I double minored in psych and women's studies, and I was on a path to become a social and work in the mental health field. And I was I was trained in active listening, negotiation, and crisis counseling, and loved that work, and sort of half jokingly, half serious, sort of used those skills every single day working with authors, but in a less, a less critical setting most of the time. Sometimes it's kind of just as critical, to be honest. And I was about to start a master's program, and I had a change in many things, partnership with an ex, a lifestyle change, just kind of like deferred from school for a year, moved home, started helping out Lisa at the agency to just kind of get my feet under me and realized that I've been informally training for this my whole life and I really loved the work and you know, licking envelopes as a, you know, six year old and collating press kits for different book book authors at the time really sort of like is part of my DNA. And so I went from this like informal participation in Lisa's work to a more formal one as an employee. And then about a few years in, like pretty quickly, actually, while she was hyper mentoring me, we started talking about like, is this the career trajectory that I wanted? Is this something I really wanted to do? And if so, what a succession plan would, would look like. And so that's kind of how I got into the work. And then a few years in, once I realized I really loved it and she recognized the talent that I had for it, we started talking about if this was something we both really wanted to put intention behind.

Casey: What did you start to see as these like core essential qualities to secure, you know, your and Lisa's partnership in terms of like, for example, did it come down to being able to actively listen? Did it come down to being able to kind of like separate home life from work life you weren't together? Cause like, it's such rich territory, obviously in business with Javier too. We're working as a couple and a family and a business, but there's, there's a lot of dimensionality to that type of partnership. So I'm just curious if there's some specific qualities or practices that you all had that feel like were really helpful or essential in making sure the partnership felt good.

Sally: Yeah. I mean, the trust and communication and like the open communication right from the get go is a big part of it. It's, I don't know, it feels weird to say this, but because, you know, well, I've heard Lisa say this, but I feel like it feels weird to say it as the person. But like, I think I have a natural talent for it. Like, I'm an extension of her. I have my own style to client or like concept and ideation to projects and also client management. But my style is like a version of what Lisa founded the agency on. And so there's like these shared ethos that if you're coming to the table with shared values and respect, and then we both were doing the work to continue to cultivate that sort of like in parallel to one another and intersecting, that was, you know, really, really helpful. And what that looked like was anything from reading the same business book or leadership book or taking a disc personality assessment and running our whole team through those so that we could figure out how we all received feedback and delivered feedback most effectively like. We, like, really did some culture and team work on ourselves, and then also, like, as an organization, as a company, and that helped bring the, like, intentions to actions.

Casey: Yeah, that makes sense. And I also just want to note, I heard you name, like, you were kind of in informal training for this for a long time, of, like, being her daughter, and, and, like, that's, that's-

Sally: Yeah.

Casey: -Press kits and stuff as a younger one. And I think about that a lot being both a business owner, entrepreneur, and having young children of like how much my kids are getting exposed to and how I can bring that in very intentionally, you know, and I think there's a spirit of partnership. At least that I'm hearing that you're naming with like right off the bat, your mom's kind of like giving you some room in the business, even as a young one to like know what she's doing or what the, what the industry-

Sally: I mean, you know, I grew up like with these authors at our dinner table and she I remember going to important high profile restaurants as looking back like she was probably just having like a launch meeting or like scouting a new client, but I was there. I mean, I distinctly remember like being young enough to fit on her, like sitting at a dining room table at a restaurant. I was young enough to be able to lay my head down on her lap. So like one ear was on her lap and the other tucked underneath the table. So my head was like that kind of size, I don't know, maybe falling asleep to the sound of these adults talking with like the white tablecloth, like hitting my neck or something, you know? I mean, it's just, it's in me, but it wasn't the expectation of me.

Casey: Yeah.

Sally: And because it was my choice, that is, I think, a huge part of why it worked. And then, when I got into the business, there were certain clients that were like, Wait, what the heck? Like, who's this new chick on this? Like, just because she's your daughter, she's going to step into this? And then there were other clients that were like, Yeah, of course, this, this makes sense. I can see how you're mentoring Sally and how hard she's working. And so, and everything in between. And I don't know if, I don't know if you and Javi have that experience at all, like out in the world. Like, I mean, in the hospitality space, a husband and wife team, I think are very common in the literary representation space. There are some mother daughter agencies, which is very special. And I should say that JVNLA, where I now am technically an employee, is a second generation mother daughter family owned business.

Casey: Oh, that's so cool. I love that.

Sally: And just to kind of, like, fully paint a picture of how full circle this is, Jean, who founded the agency, JVNLA, gave Lisa her very first job in publishing. Lisa worked for Jean and watched her build an agency out of her home with her kids around. Like, that was what set the stage for Lisa's best practices, ethos, expectations, morals. And so that is like carried through in Jennifer Welts, her daughter, who now runs JVNLA and who is technically my boss.

Casey: Well, what you're getting at is something that we think about quite often and talk about, which is like also, you know, looking at the networking, you know, as you're building your career and stuff like that as really much more about like community building and long term partnership relationship forming because that whole story about like Lisa all the way up through to where you are now and how full circle that whole piece is that is all formed because there was like depth of respect and and relations and community building over time versus the like kind of more old school mentality about networking, which is like, what can you do for me? What can I do for you? Kind of thing, and then there's not a lot of investment, but there's no way you get to where you just got to, unless there's like, you know, that cultivation and seeing of something special inside each other and wanting-

Sally: Well, okay. Two, two really fun things about that. One is, one of my, like, absolute most fun moments, which happens all the time when I'm out at conferences or, you know, restaurants, wherever I'm showing up in my professional life, people will come up to me and say, like, you're Lisa's daughter, or you're, and actually my dad was in the business at the time too. So they'd be like, you're Lisa and Lou's daughter. I remember, you know, when your mom did X campaign for me, or I remember when you were a little girl and blah, blah, blah. Like these, some of these people have known me literally since my, you know, for my entire life. And it's a very heartwarming thing. I mean, just a couple, like a month ago, I was at the U. S. book show. This woman who runs a magazine came up to me and she's, very established in her career. She's of an older generation in the industry and the, and the publishing space. And we were just totally reminiscing. And so, and publishing in particular cookbook publishing and like the food landscapes has changed so much.

Casey: Yeah.

Sally: You know, every year, but like in particular in the past 15 years, where since I've been working in the industry, and so I'm a very unique agent in that I bring this historical context to like the quote unquote, good old days of publishing to modern day literary representation, and I'm not, I mean, I'm sure there are other agents that do that in the broader publishing space, but in the culinary space, like, I don't know if there's somebody who can bring that level of historical knowledge because of, um, just having grown up in it.

Casey: I'm curious, both with the story, which I can totally relate to with my dad and parents were like, I was on their lap at a dinner table, like listening to everything that was going on my dad's business. Yeah. And partially falling asleep. But like from that, which obviously shows the way that partnership was embedded in the client relationship and style of how you manage clients and how you kind of like connect in that way. And then all the different examples that you're sharing now, I feel like are more and more embodying that spirit. Like, where do you, or how do you place partnership in terms of your connection with your, your actual clients?

Sally: Well, client advocacy is like the number one thing you do as an agent, right? You're, you have an agent to have someone in your corner at all times and be like negotiating or going to bat on your behalf, formally or informally. And so like Lisa, every, everything we do is so client centric. I mean, we are, our job is to have the most, you know, trusted communication and like care for our clients. Like I often say in scouting calls, like I tend to work with clients that are looking for high touch point communication, a lot of handholding. They really want to learn about the publishing process while they're going through it. Like those are the kinds of clients that we tend to attract. And that's because that's what Lisa first did in the work and then taught me to do and cultivated in me and what's really interesting to me in this moment in time where I am actually not running an agency exclusively, but in partnership with JVNLA is that, and you'll probably appreciate some, you know, like you, you run your business and in order to show up for your clients. You have to put your business first to then be available to your clients and what they need. And what's very interesting to me in this moment, running the Ekus Group as a boutique division of JVNLA is that for the first time ever in my career, I am able to put my clients first and foremost. And so I have so enjoyed, and I don't know for any clients that will end up listening to this, maybe they could like weigh in if they feel this way or not, but I have so enjoyed cultivating both my relationship with clients more and more one to one, but also their connection to one another and really listening to and asking like, What do you need? What do you want in this publishing experience? If it's your first book, your third book, your 10th book, how can I support you? And how are the resources in my network? How can I bring those to whatever sort of support you might need and, and like, create more partnership? And collab- like partnership to me is collaboration. Like I keep just wanting to say collaboration more than anything. And that is, like, the thing that I am able to get curious about more than anything else, um, right now.

Casey: Well, and I think a lot of people talk about collaboration, but it is as, like, a value and a skill, but it really takes something to actually be a strong collaboration.

Sally: Yeah, it takes like effort, like follow through, you know, like if I have a client asking for something, I'm like, cool. Yeah, then I have to note what it is they want, find out the answer, bring it to them, connect them with the person who can deliver that, you know, like it takes quite a bit of work to collaborate effectively in a good way.

Casey: Yeah, in a very worthwhile way, but it It makes me think back to some of the things you were framing up when you were studying to kind of go into social work and some of the skills of like active listening, negotiation, even crisis management, like a lot of those are critical skills that do come into being a skilled collaborator, an intentional collaborator, and I think a lot of people also we've seen talk about collaboration, but there's some sort of power dynamic or energy where there is a hierarchy into that. And like creating a level playing field of collaboration is, is another level of skill that kind of, comes with it. I'm curious to get to like, the place of: Lisa's ready, succession's happening. You're in place. You're so excited. You know, the Ekus Group is going to transition. What kind of, when, what was going on for you and in your thought process, and then thinking about maybe where you might want to be taking it and ultimately in this merging opportunity.

Sally: Yeah, great (laughs) great question. We, Lisa and I, were pretty like step in step with one another pretty quickly once we realized this is what I wanted to do. Meaning like, I was attending all meetings with her. I was copied on all emails. Like I was just involved in everything. So I could, listen and read and watch and learn like how she handling this, what's going on, who are all these names on an email with this book production schedule, you know, just like all the details and so when it came time to say Lisa was formally going to retire. Nobody was surprised. Everyone was like, congratulations to her for being able to take this step and to you for doing the thing that like we've seen you doing this whole, like for years at this point. So I really feel like that work started a few years prior where I was involved in Lisa was bringing me in and like, almost like, I mean, in some cases with certain clients and projects and naming it, like I'm bringing in Sally because in seven months, X, Y, Z is going to happen. And so there was like a real practical pacing to a lot of it. About a year after she retired, which was this, this past year, I guess... time is --what is time. Time is weird. Oh, I should also mention that while we were working on this, succession plan. Uh, there was, you know, some, a global pandemic and a bit of a lockdown and a complete change of pace in all workflow. And also I had had a child during this time. And so I'm her partner in the business. She's grandma for the first time. She's helping me manage like, okay, we're in this global lockdown and we're juggling both our internal team and our clients and moving remote and PPP and a newborn like it was a bit of a chaotic time and so partnership also involves like patience and grace and you know a lot of chaos and all the things in between and so when she retired and it And even prior to that, it was clear, like, okay, I love leadership and visioning. And also, but like, how much can I possibly create the space to vision where this company is going while I'm also working in the day to day, because we are a small and lean team with a very big, active, beautiful client base. And so like, I need to be doing the work day to day to keep the agency going while I'm also thinking about new business development and leadership and like true visioning about what does the next three years look like, the next five years, the next 10 years. And so I started talking to colleagues, other people that run, ran agencies that were very generous with their experience and knowledge. And I started asking questions. How did they structure their agency financially operationally? What are their HR world look like and I found that there is no uniform model, which was really reassuring and fun and like, great, cool. We're doing our thing. They're doing their thing. And it was also, it wasn't like a moment, but it was a series of conversations with really generous people where, where I realized like, this is entirely going to be self directed and driven by me. And I am a really creative person and I am working so much and so hard that I actually don't have the space for the level of creativity that I would want to be able to carry this forward exclusively independently. And that's when I started exploring joining forces with another entity and Jennifer Welts was one of those very first calls because of this longstanding relationship and symmetry between our two agencies, that you've handled the select foreign rights for us over the years. She's been the person I've turned to when I've had agency questions or conversations. It was somebody that Lisa turned to for many years. And there was just like this lovely symmetry between the two agencies. And also because they really did not have an expertise in culinary, we complement each other really, really well, and that is also part of partnership, and that reminded me of my partnership with Lisa in that Lisa's superpowers and my superpowers combined, like they didn't conflict with one another, and that was all kind of what led me to the conversation with Jennifer.

Casey: It makes so much sense, honestly, and I think that it's really inspiring, too, because You know, even the early conversations you're having there about like those sister agencies, there's not really a spirit of competition there. It's more like, what are we doing? How are we doing it together? Ask each other for some help and really like helping kind of reinforce and build each other up. And then also identifying just key to any collaboration, which is like where there's like an opportunity where we can like be stronger together. And yeah, as you said, like there wasn't a, a culinary and now you have a boutique division with inside there. So that's been. And so now how long have you been a part of one with this?

Sally: Since January. So we're in June.

Casey: Oh my gosh. And you know, we, just, time is completely non existent matter, but that's an incredible-- that went fast.

Sally: It did. I mean, what's been interesting and kudos to the entire like JVNLA infrastructure. There, you know, takes a very long time to find paperwork from 43 years, and some of that paperwork is literally in physical form. Some of it's digital, and you have to inform all of the publishers of this change and all of your clients. And, you know, there's a process to everything. And so we began that process before the formal announcement. And that process is still in publishing. You have royalty seasons. And so like the seasonality of the industry and our collaboration of agencies is still in motion because like you kind of have to live through a full tax season and royalty season, you know, like they're just things that still come up, but they are finite. And that is really fun for me. It's like, I actually like, do feel like I have more creative space and more time for client care and that is awesome.

Casey: Yeah. And one of the things I'm hearing too, or at least that I just want to kind of like name that you're speaking to is in that kind of decision and in the process of, of merging together is all the partnerships that were in your life. You know, you named like, you're a mother, you named like your role as the president of Ekus Group at the time, you named like the pandemic and all like, yeah, the client, there's all these elements in our life that you have like, you know, all those career pieces, right, that are all these other dimensions of partnership. And I think sometimes like in the business landscape, or when we're talking about it, we're just talking about like, Oh, the business partnership that may have formed, but it's like, because there's a whole landscape of other factors and contributors and relationships that are at play that make that the best kind of move for us. And it just sounds like it's been such a whirlwind and amazing first kind of couple of quarters together.

Sally: I mean, we, as humans, if somebody identifies as just one thing, I think maybe either they're kidding themselves or just haven't had enough lived experience to crack open all the forms of our identity that, like, help us show up or not show up in whatever way that might be, like, that day, and for me, in particular, the past five years, there are so many people and, like, chosen family, colleagues. There's so many entities that help me be where I am in each moment of the day that I cannot unsee them, I cannot not acknowledge them. Lisa is a huge part of that. Maybelline, my daughter, is a huge part of that. My friends who have helped support me through the past five years are a huge part of that. My clients, I sat down to write them the letter, you know, announcing this change. And like, I wanted to call each one of them, but I couldn't call just one first, because how do you pick that first client to call? And then what does it mean to see this in an email first, you know, like, there's so many things about, you know, how we are in the world that come from the network of people that contribute to our being and it's something I think about a lot.

Casey: Well, I know that when BWB and you got together and we got to do just that one workshop together, even in client conversations where we're always talking about, Oh, you need to meet Sally because one thing we're so impressed with, with you all the time, and I love you as a friend, but also to get to kind of do this professionally is like the way that you care about people and also how you can like crystal clear, kind of cut through what's going on and understand and provide some, um, high touch, like direction and support, especially for people who are entering into, uh, The space of publishing or considering being an author and on that journey to some degree. Um, but we've always been amazed at like the way that you can just absorb information really quick. And then you're like, here's what I'm hearing. It's an active listening part and like, here's some direction and you give people hope. And I think some clarity in a landscape that can also feel a little overwhelming. So I'm just curious if, yeah, I mean, it's like. We say it every time, every time somebody is like, I'm in the early stages where like you should probably reach out and connect to Sally Ekus, because you're like, that's the only person I could think.

Sally: Well, I really, I have been blessed with incredible, like people have done that to me. They have given, like, they've listened. And then they're like, here's some resources, whether it's like a person or a place or a site or a community, a membership, like I like a combination of support, you know, like emotional, like ethical support, but then also like some practical, like, okay, what do I do with this you know? And so I feel I'm always trying to work on being able to deliver that. And, you know, sometimes I am more successful at that than other times, but that's, that's an important thing to my process.

Casey: Well, and you said early too, you said a piece about like partnership being about follow through. And I think sometimes folks don't think about that as much, which is like, you can have a conversation and you could end that conversation and say, thank you. But what you're doing is instead like offering, like, here's this resource and here's this thing to check out. And here's one thing I think you should consider. And if there was one thing you took away, here it is. And that whole piece actually is that, to me like the the food in the soil of a long term relationship because it's like connecting people into something that's actually supporting them you know as a next step in addition to the active listening that you gave them and like the time and attention you gave them it's like oh okay here's how I can actually show up for you and see what might support you and then I find that kind of generosity comes back because it's setting up a longer term relationship. But with all that said, I'm just curious, like, is there a place maybe you're doing it through the agency? But like, is there a few places that you're sharing your insights? Are you speaking out? Do you have a newsletter? Like, where can people kind of who might be interested in this work get some more.

Sally: Thank you. I, it's funny you mentioned the newsletter because it's something that I've wanted and thought about doing for a really long time because when I have one to one client conversations, there's often like a lot of recurring themes. And I was like, I wish that I could like summarize these or comment on them in a little bit more of like my subjective opinion, to be honest. And so I started a newsletter to do just that. And it's a riff off of a hashtag I've been using on Instagram for a while called Not So Secret Agent. And, uh, it's technically hosted on Substack, but most people just get it in their inbox, uh, via email. And you can subscribe if you look for Not So Secret Agent and Sally Ekus. I'm sure it will come up. And my Instagram handle is just my name, @sallyekus. But beyond that too, like I am a highly accessible letter agent, probably to my own demise sometimes. But like, you can have my email address listeners. It's sally@ekusgroup.com. And the reason I share it is because, email me when you're ready, you know, and it might just be to say, Hey, I listened to this, or it might be, Hey, I, you know, read your content and I listened to some, information that you've provided. And I have this one specific question, or I just, you know, sometimes I get an email that says like, I'm not ready yet, but I wanted to be on your radar. And here I am. And that's cool, too. I've been moderating a Facebook group for a while called How To Be a Cookbook Author. And that's a place where I share like industry resources. And there's a lot of conversation. But that space, I try not to overly insert myself and my, like, subjective opinions in because I want it to be community and member run. And so for a long time, I just didn't have the capacity to, like, write anything because I, you know, was running a business. And so that, so I started the newsletter as a bit more of, like, this is what I have to say about a thing that I hear over and over again. It's going to be subjective. It's highly opinionated. It's not, like, one size fits all to publishing, but there's the laundry list of resources that I give on like where to get started in publishing, how to write a book proposal, how to look at a comp section, like all of the different member organizations you should check out. But then like, that's the science to publishing. And what I wanted to start offering too is the art. And so the, the newsletter is really the, like the everything in between, the context to my answer, which is everything in publishing is "It depends". It depends on your goals. It depends what you want to get out of. It depends what you're looking for. So the newsletter is really my all encompassing shot at answering that or asking more questions than answers.

Casey: Awesome. Yeah. We'll put that in the show notes along with everything else. It reminds me, I was actually just on a podcast recently and the closing remark was, what's one thing you would tell anybody who is wanting to be, you know, a restaurateur and my like to your point, it was like, just call me.

Sally: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Casey: Call me! Like there's like all these like, you know, innovative ideas or things like advice and it's like literally like mentorship connection, relationship, call me, get curious. Let's start talking about it. You're not on the hook for anything. I feel like is some of the like missed opportunity and it, it obviously requires a generosity on your end of like time and willingness to connect on that level. But...

Sally: Yeah, and it's mentorship is, is a mutually beneficial and like two way path, you know, it's not just the person who's saying like, I have some questions for you. It's how, like, what are those questions? Because every time I have those conversations, whether it's with like somebody just starting out or somebody who's really experienced, whatever they ask informs me too on where, where's the industry at right now, or what are people wondering about? And that. I also just really love to learn about whatever, you know, this quote unquote work that we do. And so I do make myself available. I set boundaries around it too. You know, like I got, I have 15 minute slots and I have longer slots on my calendly. It depends on, depends on what we're going for here. And also what I'm working on for my clients at the time, you know, right now, I just got an email the other day and I wrote, and I was like, I'm sorry for the brevity. I'm out on submissions between projects. Like my current commitment is to the deadlines that I have for the tasks at hand in front of me and that's important for that person to know too because it shows like this is how I show up for my clients and then also like hop on the July calendar because that's That's when we can have this chat and I'll be more focused on, on showing up for you.

Casey: Well, I really admire the story and the arc that you've been on and the commitment, I guess, to, and especially like being younger professionals in the journey, I think, to like always being willing to shift what our North Star is and get to like the top of what we thought might've been our goal, thinking, do I have another goal that might be outside of that? And starting to kind of like push it in that way. So it's so cool to hear like, where you've taken it so far, and it's certainly by no means the end of where it may go.

Sally: Yeah, I feel like I'm just beginning a whole new chapter in my career, to be honest, which feels fun. I'm re- energized in a whole new way. So thank you.

Casey: Is there anything you'd want to leave or like anything that hasn't been said that feels important to say for folks that might be hearing your story?

Sally: I mean, really, I want to thank you. I mean, you know, having the opportunity to talk about these. Themes is also such a representation of your business and how you get curious. And it's one of the things that I love about your agency and the work that you do, I think it's a very specialized and important type of participating in like the professional conversations out in the world, like, you know, these, these themes are awesome to explore and celebrate and I've had so much fun. So thank you.

Casey: Yes, oh gosh, thank you so much. I think one of my favorite things you said in yours was like, it depends.

Sally: Oh, that is literally my answer to everything. I almost called the newsletter, It Depends, but I thought the like, SEO would be a bit strange.

Casey: Yeah, I think Not So Secret Agent is really good. And catchy, although It Depends is the just the--

Sally: The underlying theme.

Casey: The assumption that it is across the board. Yeah. Well, Sally, thank you. I can't wait to see what's next for you. Everything will be in the show notes, and we'll have another conversation in the next five years.

Sally: And that sounds great. Thanks, Casey.

–

Casey: Thank you for listening to the Questions to Hold podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode and are leaving the conversation with way more questions than answers.

I invite you to build a more meaningful relationship with yourself and the world around you through the simple yet profound act of holding questions. Visit questionstohold.com and wearebwb.com to learn more about this practice, our Questions to Hold card deck, and explore more conversations. See you there.