EMBRACING THE UNKNOWN: Looking to the Sky for Direction with Jocelin Martinez

Jocelin Martinez is a seasoned communications trainer and astrologer. Jocelin has facilitated thousands of successful sessions, providing expert advice on messaging and presentation skills to clients across industries like home and luxury goods, healthcare, beauty, and entertainment. She considered her 15-year career successful, but a meeting with an astrologer in 2016 introduced a new perspective and another professional practice.

Her childhood curiosity with astrology began with Walter Mercado’s captivating television appearances, a must-watch in her household. Though she later enjoyed reading her horoscope, she remained unaware of astrology’s depth until that pivotal meeting at a friend’s party. The subsequent invitation to attend a weekly astrology meeting sparked a profound transformation in her. She now utilizes modern and Hellenistic predictive techniques to help clients navigate life’s ebbs and flows…and their key messages. Jocelin often says, "I don't ‘believe’ in astrology. I have an astrology practice because it works.”

Join us for a spirited conversation with Jocelin Martinez, where we explore the power and potential of astrology to better understand who we are, what we are, and how what’s happening in the sky can give us direction in our lives on Earth. 

In this episode you’ll hear about:

• Leveraging astrology to guide us through times of unknown and change
• How we’re so much more than our (sun) signs
• Why it’s not the “planets fault” when something goes wrong in our lives
• Approachable ways to be in relationship with astrology in your every day life

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Transcript

Casey: [00:00:00] On this season of the Questions to Hold podcast, we will feature conversations with leaders, friends and peers, all dedicated to navigating the unknown. In this time of so much change and great uncertainty, we are being called to become skilled questioners, listeners, dreamers and builders, join us as we hear personal stories that connect us to our shared humanity and explore how we can transform together and fully embrace the mystery of the moment.

Let's dive in.

Hello everybody and welcome to the Questions to Hold podcast. I am so excited today I get to be in dialogue with somebody who kind of changed my life right at the end of 2024, going into 2025, right in that transit of many things. Her name is Jocelin Martinez, and I'll have her introduce herself as we get started, but it's such a joy to be with you, Jocelin. I love even just the pre-talk we got to do here to reorient in our astrology together and what brought us together and what we're here to talk about. So before we dive into all the other things, I would love to have you just share a little bit about your story, who you are, any context that you think is helpful for the listeners as we dive into the rest today.

[00:02:30] Jocelin: All right. Thank you, Casey. First of all, I'm so humbled and excited to be here and chatting with you and your listeners. I am Jocelin Martinez and I have spent most of my life giving people advice in terms of how they present themselves, and that means that not just doing a talk, but also talking to anybody. So for example, I've done, mostly my work has been tied to communications, and then in 2016, I had this wild occurrence. I was at a friend's party and I was introduced to this woman who was an astrologer. I grew up always knowing about astrology. It was always sort of in the background, but I had no idea that astrology could do all the things. And when I say all the things, I mean shake someone's life, which is-

[00:03:17] Casey: I can attest.

[00:03:19] Jocelin: And so this woman basically got my birth data and then looked at my chart and told me things that I didn't expect astrology could do. And then she invited me to join a weekly meeting with a group of astrologers that met every Tuesday. And I was blown away. I was blown away because these people were looking at these random charts. And delineating certain things. And when I say delineating, I mean that they were describing a person's life. I was hooked. . And from that moment on, I started deeply going into the study of astrology. And so in addition to being someone who's a communications expert, I'm also an astrologer. And, this is the the work that I feel, just really quickly, I wanna say this is the work that I feel like I've been born to do, much like my other career. How the two work is that, it's really about giving people advice, and this is something that I excel at and teaching people how to move past a time of hardship because let's face it, we all have to navigate all of life's ebbs and flows. And so what the way that I work with it is essentially meeting people where they're at and telling them who they are and then describing what they have coming and, and maybe you have really excellent transits coming and that's great, but there's also a lot of perspective one can gain from the good stuff because life isn't just good stuff, right?

[00:04:40] Casey: Mm-hmm.

[00:04:41] Jocelin: It's a mix of the two. . And accepting that, this is a great moment, but that there are going to be some other moments that could have some impactful changes is also something that we have to understand and embrace because in terms of perspective, I don't think you really gain that from the high moments. You gain it from those moments where things are a little tougher and that's what makes you grow as a person. 

[00:05:04] Casey: Yeah. I'm thinking about all the listeners that may be like you pre-going to that party in 2016 and like a little skeptical or a little not-

[00:05:13] Jocelin: Oh, yeah.

[00:05:13] Casey: -Sure about astrology. Maybe it's like humming in the background of, they know it's a thing and exists, but-

[00:05:19] Jocelin: Right.

[00:05:19] Casey: -Not quite, you know, close in and intimately leveraging it in their life in a certain way. So-

[00:05:24] Jocelin: Sure.

[00:05:24] Casey: -Think about those folks and even the folks that may be more, more kind of knowledgeable about it, but how would you say that's kind of come into being a key tool for you or perspective for you in thinking about this time? Knowing ourselves, moving through whatever life has for us, whether it's good, bad, somewhere between all the things that show up. 

[00:05:45] Jocelin: Yeah. I should preface by saying that I don't really, it's, it's interesting because people, when they talk about astrology, they talk about it as being a belief system. And i, I push back on that because I don't believe in astrology. I practice it, because I know that it works and I'm constantly testing myself and looking for ways in which something doesn't align, and I have not found that yet. And so I think that there is a lot of benefit to having a healthy level of skepticism, but also having an openness to understanding that there's more .That there's so much that we don't know and embracing that. Esotericism has had its moment, it's, it's having a moment and, and that I think is pretty telling because you have shows like The White Lotus, which I binged recently, where basically one of the characters is constantly referring to astrology. And I don't think she's an astrologer, but she's making all these references and her partner Rick, is rolling his eyes. But it's, it's fascinating because it's in all parts of mainstream culture these days, and you can dismiss it. Or you can be open and have a talk with somebody who knows what they're talking about and really have your, your life change. Like it happened for me and it has happened, Casey, you said that it's done the same for you and others. . And so just be open. 

[00:07:05] Casey: Yeah, and I think it's interesting 'cause personally I've had more exposure to it than maybe some other folks like I, I have, you know, been educated on it. I've explored it over time, over decades, been interested in it. I'm interested in it in my children. I use it to kind of understand and relate to others as well from a non-judgmental place, just from like a, kind of like a deeper understanding realm. And even still, when we had our session, I was like, what? What's happening? . How does she know all this about me?

[00:07:34] Jocelin: Exactly. Yeah. But I, that's exactly it. It's a tool.

[00:07:39] Casey: Yeah.

[00:07:40] Jocelin: If you'd like another tool to help you manage your life and understand time, then astrology is where you should look. 

[00:07:47] Casey: Yeah, and I appreciated the part where, and I just wanna bring this in 'cause maybe it'll launch us into part of conversation, but where it felt like we could talk in a way that you maybe knew some intimate things about me. But you weren't getting lost in the context of those things. It was more about what the astrology was saying and how that may play out in linear time or in real life situations that were happening, versus having like a judgment or a projection or an outcome or being lost in the context of anything or wanting to like meddle or know about the context of anything. It was just like, here's what's happening, how is that maybe showing up in your life, and if it isn't, take note 'cause this stuff might start showing up and that, you know, you can start to track patterns and find some understanding of yourself through it. So I appreciate that. And I think I just wanna name that for anybody who's kind of curious about this too, really working with somebody who might be able to guide and navigate them in a way there- where there is that clean, energetic exchange of kind of, information that astrology may be giving just to the person to, translate and leverage as a tool, however, you know, they may apply it in their own life. 

[00:08:59] Jocelin: I should also add that one of the other beautiful things with working with astrology as a tool is that the idea of being or feeling seen is something that I think most of us crave, right?. And maybe we can equate it to just going outside and having a neighbor say our name and wave, right? Like, there's something really wonderful in that. But imagine sitting with someone and then having these parts of you that maybe you're aware of and or maybe you're not aware of, be brought up in a way that is going to help you navigate the time and the moment that you are in, I think is especially wonderful. And it's, it's a gift. And so I believe that that is the best way to utilize astrology in the sense of, look, you're reflecting onto me things that I, that maybe I am in tune with or not, but these things are my gifts, right? Because we're all born with these gifts. And so understanding those and how to best utilize those and figuring out purpose too, right? Because oftentimes we are stuck in the, the rut of life. And it's, it's an easy thing to happen in the sense that we have bills to pay, but there's more. And the chart can support that. And maybe you are on your path, maybe you found that early on and you feel blessed and that's great, but maybe you're looking for something else. And through analysis, we can find that together. 

[00:10:23] Casey: Yeah. So let's break it down a little bit, because also I think it can be like, oh yeah, I leverage astrology as a tool, but it's like, what does that actually-

[00:10:31] Jocelin: Yeah.

[00:10:31] Casey: -Mean? 

[00:10:33] Jocelin: So what it means is that when we talk about astrology, I wanna say that astrology or the planets don't make us do things. So that that's a, a false statement that most people think and they, it's one of the reasons why people dismiss astrology. The planets don't do that. What the planets do is that they, they in essence have geometrical conversations with one another that influence time. And it's by looking at those configurations and how those configurations are hitting our charts, or as astrologers call it, aspecting our charts, that is how we're able to see what's coming and maybe what has passed and, and, and that kind of thing. So it's looking at the planets and seeing what those patterns are doing and how they're enacting the patterns in our chart

[00:11:23] Casey: And when we say enacting the patterns in our chart, does that mean, so, enacting, like the different kind of like, planets that are in my chart to when I was born and how I'm moving through time?

[00:11:35] Jocelin: So I want you to think of your birth chart as a snapshot in time. And so the moment that you're born, there is a very unique configuration that is you. And a lot of times people will say, well, but what if somebody else is born at the exact same time as me? This, this is the reason why astrology is bogus. And I would say that that person is going to have similar things happen to them, but they're still different because every chart is unique, and that's because you are born onto your family, whereas they're born into their own family, and maybe they're in a different socioeconomic class, but they're going to have a lot of the same likes and dislikes as you. And maybe a lot of the same experiences as well. 

[00:12:19] Casey: Okay, so then that means with my chart and where the planets were in conversation with each other, when it, it kind of like ,the aspecting onto my chart then. So then, just so I'm understanding this correctly, or if I'm understanding it correctly, as time is changing and the different conversations are changing and things are happening in the world or in the universe, I should say, and I'm moving through it, i'm kind of in dialogue with that as well.

[00:12:44] Jocelin: You are, absolutely. Absolutely. And one of the things that I always counsel my clients on is that as we're looking at these configurations, and you know, again, you're going to not just have one thing that's really great, you're, you're going to have multiple things happening in your chart because we're talking about nine celestial bodies in the sky. The sun and the moon are considered planets for astrologers, and as those are getting activated, there're a thing. There are stories there. There's a storyline that's being formed. And so if you have a storyline that maybe is really intense, then there's a technique that I like to use, which is called remediation, which, basically encourages the person to look for ways to enact that energy so that the things aren't happening personally to you, but they are happening- they're, they're still happening because energy is energy and it has to happen. And I, I'll give you a anecdotal story. I, there's this famous astrologer who was at a conference and he looked at this woman's chart and it was- it was a rough chart like, she was having, in terms of transit, she was having a lot that was going to be really, really sticky, and so he just looked at her and he said, so what's, what's going on? And she told him that things were really great and he, he paused because he looked at the chart and he didn't understand how that could be and so this woman was an actor and she had been playing the role of Judy Garland. And so she had been enacting all of these tough things, but they weren't personally happening to her.

[00:14:26] Casey: Wow. 

[00:14:26] Jocelin: And that is, she was an astrologer, obviously, so she knew to remediate her transits. And she was fortunate enough to get this role. And so there you have it. And this is what I mean by using astrology as a tool. 

[00:14:38] Casey: That's really interesting. So she was able to put it in her role so that it wasn't directly impacting her. 

[00:14:43] Jocelin: Exactly. And so I'll tell people, Hey, watch a movie on this topic. Right, because that energy is going to be there, still part of your life. You are having a conversation with that through sitting down and being an audience member, but it's not personally happening to you, and that's better. 

[00:15:00] Casey: So that's interesting. So whether when you're in a reading with somebody and you're giving them all the things, again, I don't even know about. I think about my own experience with you. I wouldn't even put a value system, obviously there was some good in air quotes and some, bad, in air quotes, but it's all just it. It just all is, right?.

[00:15:16] Jocelin: Right.

[00:15:16] Casey: It's not being valued or judged in that way. And then it's about, kind of that more strategic or remediation as you're saying, of like, if this energy is coming into my life, how can I think about being with it in a way that may be the most supportive to what my needs are in this season of my life? 

[00:15:35] Jocelin: My goal is to always give you constructive feedback. Like I said, this is what I've been doing most of my life in terms of my, you know, my communications career, but also as an astrologer. My job is to help empower you to make changes that will make your life feel more, you more genuine to who you are. But it's not to fear-mongering because I, I don't believe in any of that. And to your point, Casey, there is no good or bad. It's just energy and it shifts and it's important to know that everything does shift. Nothing is constant, not even us. Right? So we're constantly changing. And so you, you had a very impactful change that got you into Esotericism or you know, just wanting to be a healer. And I had that as well and I never in a million years thought that I would say that I'm an astrologer. I just, first of all, I didn't know that that was a real thing because my introduction to it was this flamboyant Puerto Rican astrologer that my mom would watch on tv, and he looked great, but I was just like, this is, this is cool. I'm interested, but I didn't know that there was more. There is, and if you're curious, then I invite you to start looking into it and don't look at it like- so one of the things that I tell people is that there's astrology and then there's pop astrology. Pop astrology is what we find when we're on socials.

[00:17:06] Casey: Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:06] Jocelin: And that stuff is kind of fun. But if you hear, oh, you are this sign and you're going to only like these things and that's wrong and that's what pop astrology promotes. 

[00:17:16] Casey: Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:16] Jocelin: And real astrology is guess what? You're not just one thing, you're all of these things.

[00:17:22] Casey: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:22] Jocelin: And this is how you work with that.

[00:17:25] Casey: Yeah. Who do you find, or like what life events are bringing people to astrology or that you find and how is that different from maybe how you, like other instances that you think people could really like come into the fold, but maybe don't think of it as the natural next step. 

[00:17:42] Jocelin: Well the, we had a recent one, the pandemic-

[00:17:45] Casey: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:46] Jocelin: -Was one where so many people got hooked onto astrology. And it was because we were just trying to figure out how do we cope with these changes and, you know, the things that we're experiencing now. So I'll give you an example. We, as a country, and I'll keep this US, US-centric because we're in the US, but as a country we're dealing with a lot of changes and the the sky supports that because we are having major outer planet shifts. And when I say outer planets, I'm referring to the planets that we cannot see in the night sky. So those are going to be Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto and Saturn- Saturn we can see. But these planets, because they are further away from the sun. Their orbit is longer. It takes longer for 'em to orbit the sun, and so those impacts affect us collectively in a sort of, in a global way versus just the personal planets which affect us personally. 

[00:18:42] Casey: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:42] Jocelin: Right? 

[00:18:43] Casey: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:43] Jocelin: And so there's so many shifts happening. We, and without getting too nitty gritty into all the changes, we've had basically four planets shift signs and, and that's huge. And so there's a lot of changes happening. And these changes are exciting. They're a little scary, right? Because some people embrace change, but some people are fearful of it. And I think it's good to feel of like in between, right? Like being excited about change, but also wanting to know how to, how to navigate it. And so that's pretty telling. 

[00:19:17] Casey: Yeah. So that makes sense as like an entry point. The pandemic especially, or these times of like very great global change, global uncertainty. That's, you know, we're in there now, the pandemic, right? One perfect example of it where people may reach towards other ways of understanding what's happening, understanding themselves in what's happening with everything. But have you found other ways too that people are just kind of coming to it where they're like, you know what, I just got this feeling that I should like go to astrology or you know. I'm just curious.

[00:19:48] Jocelin: Yeah. So it's interesting. I just, last week I had a dear friend of mine, this woman that I went to elementary school with, and she's just so special. But she's going through a lot of, and like, there's no other way to say it, but shit. 

[00:20:01] Casey: Yeah. 

[00:20:01] Jocelin: And so she reached out to me and she's like, listen, I need to talk to you. Let's book a session. Because I need to understand why these things are happening. . And she's a friend, and so I, I, I'm like, yeah, let's, let's do this. . But yeah, so when you're going through things and you're just trying to figure out, you wanna kind of name it. 

[00:20:20] Casey: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:21] Jocelin: And, it's, I think it's really telling to sit down with someone who has done the work and understands it in a way that will be useful to you.

[00:20:32] Casey: And what have you seen kind of be the impact or what happens in sessions? You know, have you seen people radically change their lives? Or have you seen people kind of be maybe a little freaked out by what they found out and kind of be like, ah! 

[00:20:47] Jocelin: Yeah. Well, I, I haven't had the latter thankfully, but I think it has a lot to do with my approach to it and just knowing how to relay a message. Right? But yeah, so I've seen people hear things that are going to happen and, and I'll say to, and then they'll say to me, oh, so that's kind of bad. And, and back to what we had said before. . I, I always say, there's no such thing as bad or good. These are absolutes that don't really exist in life. They're, they're moments of change. And so these people do feel a little bit like- but then my job as a counselor is to let them understand that there's also all of these other things that are happening. That it's not just one thing, that life, life isn't just one thing. It's many things. And working through those things is how we as humans grow and experience life. And so, but I haven't seen anybody come back with a Mohawk yet, but I'm hoping for that. I'm still- 

[00:21:44] Casey: Get ready, Jocelin. Um, next call. I'm coming. I mean, that makes sense. I just, you know, sometimes is, I'll speak to myself when we had our session. There is information in there that can be, not startling, but kind of like very validating, affirming, and also affirming of like a big directional change potentially, you know, so some, for some people who are less comfortable with change, I can also imagine that being a little like, eh, I'll earmark that for later. 

[00:22:13] Jocelin: Right? 

[00:22:14] Casey: That kind of come back to it kind of thing. Or I'm not really ready for that and we'll keep going, but I'm wondering if you wanna say, 'cause you named your approach, so if you wanna just speak to that, like that counselor kind of portion of it or how you relay the information to people that might help feel like there's like less resistance or less kind of fear associated with it. 

[00:22:35] Jocelin: One of the ways to look at it is to think about just being in the ocean, right? You're in the ocean and you're expecting calm seas, but suddenly something hits you or maybe something grabs you and, and those things are part of the experience. But remember that you love the ocean and remember that you're there with a purpose, right? You're exercising, you're there. 'cause you're enjoying it. You love being in the ocean. So it's that. It's understanding and embracing the flow of life and flowing with the changes because ultimately what you're trying to do is live purposefully and, and also to experience. Like, so you can't hide away from a transit. I'll, I'll give you an example from my personal life. I was having a very sort of intense transit. And so I was looking at that and thinking, oh gosh, how do I, how do I deal? And you know, even though I'm giving people the advice about remediate and do these things, but sometimes you're so in that transit that it makes it hard for you to see beyond that. But because I have astrology and am an astrologer, I knew that that moment would pass just like other moments. And that was really comforting to me. And so sitting with that and embracing that and yeah, and feeling the feelings and crying and feeling sort of like, I just wanna speed this up. That that's, that's also part of the experience too, but understanding that just like in the ocean, you're going to flow with it and then you'll be back. You'll be on solid ground and you'll be all the better for it. 

[00:24:10] Casey: How do you recommend that it goes from this like kind of big idea that's out there to something that you're just living with as a practice? Day-to-day, you know? 'Cause like I'll never be an astrologer. 

[00:24:22] Jocelin: Oh, you never know. . 

[00:24:23] Casey: Hey, hey, hey. That could be part of this. 

[00:24:25] Jocelin: Never say never. 

[00:24:27] Casey: I'm not currently an astrologer. 

[00:24:29] Jocelin: Yeah. 

[00:24:30] Casey: And I don't enjoy personally reading the sound bites, like on social media like that. Like , there's a part of me that does because I can find some validation or see myself in there.

[00:24:41] Jocelin: Yeah. 

[00:24:41] Casey: Like that makes sense. But it also feels for me, and this is just for me, it feels like incomplete, in a sense where I'm not really feeling the full understanding of how to apply it, like leverage that information in my life in a meaningful way. What do you recommend for that? Kind of just like starting to bring it in as an everyday practice and like beginning to kind of get more versed in this landscape. 

[00:25:06] Jocelin: I recommend that people get their birth time and uh, and not just, oh, my mom's memory, but actually look and get your birth certificate with the time on it, and then go into a website like Astro-seek.com, and so it's astro- A-S-T-R-O, hyphen, S-E-E-K dot com and you can generate a chart and there's so many descriptions and all the things you need to know, but what I'm getting at is that I want you to understand and know what your rising sign is, because most people just know their sun sign, and so their sun is based on the day that they were born. And you hear, well, I'm a Taurus. I'm a Virgo. I'm a.- That's, that's a part of you. That's where the sun was when you were born. But your rising sign puts your chart in the order that it needs to be in order for those horoscopes that you read, or the people that you interact with online for their messages to make sense. And so look for your rising sign and then read that and pay attention to those messages. Connect it to that sign. Because then they'll be more accurate, and so that's the best way to navigate it. Another thing to note is that in addition to knowing your rising sign, you should also know your moon sign. So the rising sign is uniquely you. It is the part of the chart that people interact with when they talk to you, when they meet you, that's who you are. Your moon sign is connected to your innermost emotions, and it's how you nurture others and nurture yourself. And then of course, your sun sign. Sun is the brightest light in the sky. That's how you shine. And so where that, that those luminaries, the moon and the sun sit in your chart are especially important. And if you know this is another extra step. It's if you- you asked, so you're getting it. It's also important to know whether or not you were born during the day or at night. And that's because of the technique from Hellenistic Times, which is what I study and practice, and it's called sect. And what that does is it divides the power of the luminaries by whether or not, so for example, if you were born during the day, you'll have more of a connection to that I, that solar identity, whereas if you're born during the night, you'll have more of a connection with your moon. And if you're looking at your birth certificate and you say, well, 4:55am and you think that's daytime, it may not be daytime because it has to, the sun has to have risen. Basically, the sun would've needed to have risen from the part of the chart that is the ascendant and descendant. So essentially what I'm getting at is that the sun rises in the east and. If the sun was below that line, which is a really, you know, it's a definite line within an astrological chart. If it's below that, then it could very well be that you were born at night. And I say it could because there's a technicality in that If the sun was close enough to that line, then, we would have to investigate, I would have to ask you questions to figure out whether or not that has manifested in terms of a solar chart or a lunar chart. But what I want you to do to once again, repeat is, look at your ascendant, right? Look at your moon sign, and you already know your sun. And so if you were born during the day, that's going to mean that you should absolutely, in addition to reading your rising sign. Look at your sun sign, obviously, but if you were born at night, I want you to look at your rising sign, but also look at and read the horoscope for your moon sign, because that is also going to have a lot of resonance for you.

[00:28:53] Casey: Yeah. So I am Capricorn and Scorpio Rising and Taurus Moon, and when I read. All of them.

[00:29:02] Jocelin: Actually. Pause, reverse. You are a Taurus. Rising. 

[00:29:05] Casey: Taurus Rising, that's right. Yeah. Taurus Rising

[00:29:07] Jocelin: And Scorpio Moon. Yeah.

[00:29:08] Casey: Scorpion Moon. Yeah. And Capricorn Sun.

[00:29:09] Jocelin: And why I remember all of these things. I dunno. But...

[00:29:13] Casey: Because it's like me at the restaurant, I remember everybody's name, where they sat, what they ate, what their allergy is, and then I'm like, I'm sorry! It's not weird!

[00:29:22] Jocelin: Go on, you were saying.,

[00:29:26] Casey: Well, what's interesting though is that to your point, like reading Capricorn, my whole life never felt totally complete like it was like, 

[00:29:34] Jocelin: Right. 

[00:29:35] Casey: That's exactly what's happening. And then I would often read Scorpio next. 

[00:29:40] Jocelin: Oh yeah. 

[00:29:41] Casey: So I was like, oh, this is like completing a puzzle. But then when I added Taurus, then I feel like it's completing again, not fully complete, but giving that bigger picture of all that might be in interplaying, different dimensionalities of myself that are experiencing things. I always feel a little bit more connected to one over the other in some ways.. Just to have that kind of like landscape to look at and, and look and reflect within myself of what's feeling most true for me, what's feeling real for me? Where are some things that I might not be conscious of, but I could start looking at, and how's it all at play right now, because we're all busy too, you know, I'll use myself-

[00:30:17] Jocelin: of course.

[00:30:17] Casey: I like, I'm so busy that a lot of times maybe I'm not even aware or paying attention to all the things too. So I find this a nice practice to just remind myself to kind of sink into the energies that are around and start to pay attention to what's happening versus just being busy in the world and steamroll through. 

[00:30:37] Jocelin: Right. So I, I do wanna touch on a technique that I use every time I do a consultation, and it's called annual perfections. And it's resurrected from ancient texts that a group of wonderful astrologers, philosophers, people who study language, they essentially went and did this translation project and they found all these old texts from the first and second century and beyond. And so one of the things that they found and have revived is this technique called annual perfections. And what that does is it excites a particular part of your chart or the year or the age that you're in. Lemme give you an example. So if you are 33, then there's going to be a lot of focus on your professional life, career, how people see you. And this is also going to be true when you're 45 and when you're 57. And you've probably already noticed that these are all 12 year cycles. And that's because the chart is a circle that we cut into. Think of it as a pizza pie, and we cut that into 12 slices and those 12 slices activate particular themes. And so what that does is automatically for me as an astrologer tells me this is, this is the big theme for the year. This is what you should know in terms of what this means. And then what I'll also say to you is, or ask you, is what was happening 12 years ago? Because that, again, this technique, I don't, I don't understand why it works. And I can tell you that all astrologers will tell you, we don't understand why this works. We don't get it. And maybe you can chalk it up to this, this broader idea of what is consciousness and, and what is time and space, and we're still trying to navigate that. Scientists will tell you that we are now at a point where, where through the James Webb telescope, we're not even sure that the Earth was created 13 billion years ago. It, it's, there's just so much that we're constantly discovering. But anyhow, back to this technique. Mm-hmm. It's fantastic and it's telling, and what it does is it helps you understand from where you were, where you're heading and for this particular year. . And that's just incredible. I wanna quote Mark Twain, I think a lot of astrologers do in that he said that "history doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes." And that's exactly what I'm getting at with this technique. There will be things that happened 12 years ago that are maybe excited right now, or will be excited at some point during the, the year that you're in based on your age. And that's fascinating. 

[00:33:24] Casey: Yeah, it's really, I love that quote. I didn't know, it's really interesting. We're coming in on time, so anything else that we wanna-

[00:33:29] Jocelin: Oh no, I refuse to hang up. 

[00:33:32] Casey: Okay, let's keep going. But I keep thinking about this and maybe it's not a direct correlation, so you can tell me. But as we're talking, it's so interesting because obviously in my work in communications, I work a lot in the realm of like story making, personal myth making, understanding ourself in the fabric of all the things, whether it is so. Do you find too, that you're pulling in a lot of the work that you've done in your communications landscape with presentation of self and, and articulation communication in how then it's like you get all this information, you start to figure out how to apply it, but also just like the storytelling of our own life that it can support us.

[00:34:12] Jocelin: 100%. I, I've taught storytelling my entire life, and now I'm teaching people about their story 

[00:34:19] Casey: Mm-hmm.

[00:34:19] Jocelin: And their purpose. And it's so rewarding. I have to tell you, I, I just, I'm so humbled by knowing this and by being able to help people understand things. It's, it's just, yeah. I mean, I wanna tell you that having had that moment that changed my life was just extraordinary. And every day I'm humbled by it every day, even by the way, so as an astrologer, I know my chart really well, but there are moments that I'll look at something and I'll, I'm blown away by the fact that I'm still learning new things. . Because astrology is, it's a learning that is endless because it is, since the beginning of time, we've been utilizing the sky to navigate whether or not this is a time for hunting winter's coming, or is there a threat coming? Is there going to be rain? And, and we've done that through just looking at the sky from a geocentric perspective. . And so there's so much that happens. And so let's just talk about folks who are sailors, right? They look to the stars to navigate. And so the stars are so interconnected with our experiences on earth because ultimately we're star dust and, and so those stars are helping us, and this is kooky, um, but it's helping us understand our story. 

[00:35:44] Casey: Yeah. It's so beautiful. And even I think about when you named like the, the planets that we can see and those that we can't see, but then it's like, and those that have just beyond that that we haven't discovered yet, and how-

[00:35:56] Jocelin: Oh gosh, right.

[00:35:57] Casey: -To the chart, like there's just so many factors out in the great expanse that we couldn't possibly be knowing. So of course, even as an astrologer intimate with your chart, you're gonna get surprised sometimes or find something and be like, oh, this is not, we'll learn some new knowledge and it'll impact all of that.

[00:36:15] Jocelin: And, and I'm also constantly learning new things as old text is being found and, and sort of translated. And I'm somebody who just really loves learning new things. I love details. I love being able to understand why things work the way that they work. And with astrology, that, that's exactly it. Every astrologer is a student. I'm a student of astrology. 

[00:36:40] Casey: So would you recommend that we all become students of astrology or should we-

[00:36:44] Jocelin: Yes. Yes. Absolutely, and reach out to me. I'll tell you where to start.

[00:36:53] Casey: I was gonna say, I also appreciate the being guided through part of it. Like, I think there's such a, and maybe just to wrap on that note, there's such a beauty of being my own learner of it, but also to work with somebody and be guided together in that mystery of it. Like there- it's two different ways to be in relationship, but I find personally, and this is just from my experience, both to be so important in the deeper kind of understanding all of it. Because even if I was just to be reading it and analyzing my own chart. I'm gonna miss something that if I was in dialogue or relationship with somebody else guiding through it,

[00:37:31] Jocelin: Yes.

[00:37:31] Casey: -that they're gonna pick up on 

[00:37:33] Jocelin: Absolutely true. And this is why astrologers have astrologers who look at their charts. . Right? Because you need that other lens, right? So we see the world through a very unique lens that's ours. But other people are seeing us in a very unique way based on their lenses. And so that's why it's important to do this in community and do this with other people. 

[00:37:54] Casey: Okay, Jocelin, so if there was a question that you would leave the listener with, what question are you inviting folks to hold after everything we've just talked about? 

[00:38:03] Jocelin: Uh, yeah. It would be to stay curious, stay curious, and always ask follow up questions, 

[00:38:10] Casey: And a lot of them,

[00:38:11] Jocelin: This is working, but why is this working? 

[00:38:13] Casey: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:14] Jocelin: Oh, this isn't working. Why isn't this working? 

[00:38:17] Casey: Yeah. That fits in with what we always talk about with questions as a a practice. Just an inquiry practice. . To be in, not leading questions, just expansive questions of being curious over and over again. Well, all your information is in the show notes. If anybody is listening here, I highly recommend it. Again, it caused radical changes in my life in 2025, and I can only imagine it will even more. And even though we're in the middle of the year, I would just encourage everybody, don't use these kind of linear year mile markers as the only way to break through as you name. There's times of crisis or change or curiosity or deep wondering, or any of it, and all of it isn't perfect. The perfect time to start and dip your toe into understanding what the sky and astrology might be helping show us is true in our life and on our path.

[00:39:04] Jocelin: And, and when we talk about a year, we should talk about your specific year.

[00:39:09] Casey: Yeah. 

[00:39:09] Jocelin: And what that means is based on your birthday, you're starting the year, right?. That's, that's when your year is getting started. It's not the Gregorian calendar, New Year's Day. That's, that's nonsense. . It's when you are experiencing this new shift based on having your solar return. Which is what Astrologists referred to as, you know, lay people call a birthday. 

[00:39:32] Casey: Mm-hmm. Yep. Which it was at my birthday too. It just all seems-

[00:39:37] Jocelin: It was pre- birthday for you, right? 

[00:39:39] Casey: It was time, 40th birthday. Okay. It's all changing. I'm ready. Well, thank you so much, Jocelin. I'm so excited to be in conversation with you and have hopefully introduced some more people to leveraging astrology and the star is to navigate what is in the moment. 

[00:39:56] Jocelin: It's been my absolute pleasure, and I wanna thank you so much, and I want to encourage people to go ahead and look, look at astrology differently. . Because there's, there's more to it and I promise you it's going to surprise you.

[00:40:10] Casey: Thank you!

Thank you for listening to the Questions to Hold podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode and are leaving the conversation with way more questions than answers.

I invite you to build a more meaningful relationship with yourself and the world around you through the simple yet profound act of holding questions. Visit questionstohold.com and wearebwb.com to learn more about this practice, our Questions to Hold card deck, and explore more conversations. See you there.