Questions to Hold with Casey Carroll
Questions to Hold with Casey Carroll
EMBRACING THE UNKNOWN: Unleashing your Great Work with Amanda Crowell
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Join us for a conversation with Amanda Crowell (she/her), where we explore how to unleash your Great Work, and what it looks like to approach work as a path of curiosity, clarity, and collaborative momentum.
Dr. Amanda Crowell is a cognitive psychologist, keynote speaker, and the author of Great Work: Do What Matters Most Without Sacrificing Everything Else, now in its 2nd edition. She’s also the creator of the Great Work Journal, host of the podcast Unleashing Your Great Work, and founder of the Great Work Series: a slate of monthly community classes that explore how to do work that feels meaningful, aligned, and lights you up.
Amanda’s TEDx talk, Three Reasons You Aren’t Doing What You Say You Will Do, has been viewed nearly two million times and was featured on TED’s Ideas blog and TED Shorts. Her work has appeared in The Wall Street Journal, NPR, Al Jazeera, Thrive Global, and MSN.
She lives in New Jersey with her husband, two awesome kids, and a remarkable Newfiepoo named Ruthie. These days, she splits her time between educating future teachers, coaching creative professionals, and helping individuals and organizations bring their Great Work to life.
In this episode you’ll hear about:
- Why your Great Work matters, is possible, and can be done without burnout
- How to figure out what your Great Work is
- Why “doing less” often leads to doing your best work
- How you can use the time you have today and this week to move toward your big vision
SOCIAL HANDLES
Connect with BWB
Be sure to subscribe on Apple or Spotify, and leave us a 5-star rating + review!
Podcast Song: Holding you by Prigida
Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
https://uppbeat.io/t/prigida/holding-you
License code: CELWR55ONTDIFRSS
Casey: [00:00:00] On this season of the Questions to Hold podcast, we will feature conversations with leaders, friends and peers, all dedicated to navigating the unknown. In this time of so much change and great uncertainty, we are being called to become skilled questioners, listeners, dreamers and builders, join us as we hear personal stories that connect us to our shared humanity and explore how we can transform together and fully embrace the mystery of the [00:00:30] moment.
Let's dive in.
Hello everyone and welcome to the Questions to Hold podcast. I feel extra lucky today to be sitting in conversation with a new person in my universe, although like all good things is coming from a friend and somebody that I respect, so a good connection and all that usually brings in more good energy and good connections from there. So very grateful to be with Amanda, Dr. Amanda Kroll is a cognitive [00:01:00] psychologist, TEDx speaker, which I'm just gonna give a plug because I was just telling Amanda I went down a rabbit hole and listened to the TEDx that she did three times last week, so highly recommend it. An author of an incredible book, Great Work. Uh, Amanda is also the creator of the Great Work Journal and host of the Unleashing Your Great Work Podcast. So a fellow podcaster here, her TED Talk, which I just named is called "Three reasons you aren't doing what you say you will do". Uh, I think we can, many of us can relate to that. Um, and this [00:01:30] has nearly 2 million views, which is so exciting. I added three more last week. Um, Amanda is on a mission to help people do their Great Work, work that's meaningful, fulfilling, and truly their own, which, you know, I know so many of you all listening are on that path and looking to do it. So Amanda, it's a super honor to have you here. Thank you so much for joining us.
Amanda: Thanks for having me. I'm super excited to be here too.
Casey: Yes. Is there anything about your introduction that I may have missed or that you would wanna name before we dive into the [00:02:00] conversation?
Amanda: No, it was, you know, humbling to hear it all at the same time. It's always like that when you listen to your bio, like, wow, that's a lot. Wait, that's me. Yeah, it's very interesting.
Casey: It's a lot and probably at the same time just scratching the surface of really-
Amanda: Oh yeah.
Casey: -(all of the) things, you know. That's how amazing life is. Well, I wanna start with a question that is around, you know, your work in helping Great Work come to be in this life.
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Casey: And I always think so much of our Great Work is comes from our [00:02:30] lived experience. So I'd love to just hear a little bit more about your lived experience in figuring out your Great Work and where you feel like you are in that process right now on your journey?
Amanda: That's a good question. So Great Work as a concept, the one of the ways I like to think about it is that it, it's sort of like from the day you were born until the day that you die, there's this like thread that goes through the things that you, not someone else, but you would name as your most interesting accomplishments. The [00:03:00] memories you go back to again and again to remind yourself how lucky you are, the things that you did that felt courageous. Like those things that make us proud to have shown up for ourselves. Like that thread is the Great Work thread.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: And so I have, I feel lucky that I have been paying attention to that for a really long time.
I think naturally maybe came into the world, kind of tuned into myself. In that particular way, very clueless about other things, but, you know, aware of what I [00:03:30] was interested in, particularly from a, like a work way of thinking. And so I was interested as a child in educational television. I liked to watch it.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: But I also, and I loved Jim Henson. Love. I'm just gonna go ahead and put that in the present tense. Just love Jim Henson. And what I remember learning about Jim Henson that solidified it all and made him like a hero to me, was him talking about Sesame Street. The Sesame Street Muppets being an effort to [00:04:00] show that people can be different and still be friends.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: And I remember thinking like, wow. Like look what he did. He did something so amazing. I love it so much. And so. I followed sort of that thread into college and did like a communication major. And then when I went to get my master's and my PhD, I had learned enough to know that it was the education piece of Sesame Street, not really the puppet piece.
Casey: Yeah.
Amanda: That was so interesting to me. So that I was always trying to get closer, closer, closer to what felt to me like [00:04:30] the big point of it all, which was how can we really get more Great Work out into the world is how I would unequivocally say it now. But even back then, I would've said like, we're missing so many of the geniuses in our world because their education isn't as good and they're not getting the opportunities. And like, how can we adjust education to make sure that more people are doing more of the work that they're uniquely qualified to do because we have very big problems in the world. We, we need our best minds. And I feel strongly [00:05:00] that of the truism that I'm sure people have heard before, that you can't solve problems with the same brain that created the problem.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: So we have to get more people in these conversations about these big problems. And so that's sort of where I was going with my own work. And so got a PhD in the education space, became a cognitive psychologist because you know, it was kind of like ever decreasing circles. It was like first it was just like, how do we tell stories and inspire people? And then it was like, how does education start [00:05:30] to create the conditions where more people can do more? And then the TEDx Talk is actually a place where I would call it like an inflection point where I was like, all of these things that I know about education actually apply to adults and children, but adults who are creating these worlds that we live in. And so the TEDx talk takes three educational theories and applies them to personal change management. And so then it was like, oh, it's. It's about sort of getting closer and closer and closer. And then I was actually kind of recruited to write a [00:06:00] book about burnout for reasons that aren't very interesting, but, but then like, it went a little bit south. I was writing the book. We had a publisher. We had an agent, like the whole thing was happening. It went a little south. It was a little traumatic. Ultimately I walked away from that book deal, but I had this beginnings of a book. And so then I was like, I don't think my book is about burnout, but burnout plays a large role in it 'cause my own personal story is so tied up in like not burning up in the fires of my own ambition. Uh, and so I wrote Great Work out of the starting [00:06:30] place of that other book. And so how to do the work that matters most without sacrificing everything else is like the tension at the heart of Great Work. And so I don't think that I've like arrived at my Great Work. I think I will continue to be just circling around and following the breadcrumbs and seeing what happens. But there's no question in my mind either that it all is part and parcel of the same thing. That there is a there, there. And I think that's just really at the heart of what I'm helping other people do is to believe. There's a there, there for them too and that they can begin to [00:07:00] pursue it. And it doesn't have to be like, you don't have to tear your life apart to do it. You can take little steps and you'll feel so much better and life will be so much more fun and interesting and you'll be around people who you feel really grateful to be around. And those are the outcomes of doing more Great Work. Yeah, you also have great products. You get a book or you win an award or whatever, but really it's about the way you are living. It's a lifestyle choice.
Casey: Yeah. And I, I wanna talk about too, 'cause what's so great about that TEDx is like, you give some very just like practical, [00:07:30] approachable steps towards this, which I wanna like come to. But before we get there, I do wanna just zoom in, get a, a little bit more on that, like burning up in your own ambition. I think myself, I'm personally interested in that. So many of the people that we get to work with who are striving in their Great Work toward their Great Work, with their Great Work as their primary mission as well, I think that's a really real component of it, of like all the mission or the [00:08:00] urgency that you may feel, or the passion or the, the curiosity, the drive.
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Casey: All those pieces, how that can be fuel. But I'm just curious if you wanna share a little bit more about that, like the burnout component of that as well.
Amanda: Yeah. Well I think it's, it really is like, you could write a book about burnout, right? And you could write a book about ambition, right? You know, or whatever you wanna call it, purpose, meaning whatever. But to write the book about both of them together is, I feel like what made it actually, I needed both pieces.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: For it to be really part of my Great [00:08:30] Work, because it is, my story in the book as it's laid out and in my life as it unfolded, was this walking back and forth between, I call it the productivity rollercoaster of doom, where it's like I'm doing amazing things and then like I'm crashing into burnout and then I climb, dragged myself back out. And what ultimately happened. Is that I had a very big physical-
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: -Body, you know, breakdown.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: Had a really massive autoimmune flare up-
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: -That [00:09:00] scared me a lot. It just, it really stopped me in my tracks and this was, I had been doing consulting and had handled my. Productivity problems, like I'd learned all the productivity tips.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: And then I was, again, back here at this place where, you know, and this is where I realized, oh, the problem is not, it's like the calls coming from inside the house, like you are the problem, Amanda. Like, you have to handle your life differently.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: And so how can you do the work that matters most, which does make you feel feverish about it, [00:09:30] right?
Casey: Yeah.
Amanda: Like you wanna do it, you're so excited and like without sacrificing your health, happiness, and relationships. And so the book lays out the Great Work method, which is 50% go after it and 50% don't ruin your life over it. And so it's how do you walk that line? And it's like, well, I mean there's steps in the book. It's like, first you have to say no to a whole lot of things because yes, people say yes to a. So there's a chapter called Do Less. Much, Much Less.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: And then it's about aligning [00:10:00] your time relentlessly and having a parking lot of projects you're not working on that are like great ideas and super aligned, but not right now.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: And sort of freeing up your mind so that you can focus. And then one of the three goals that you're allowed to set is a sanity goals. So like a third of your life's commitments need to be about resilience, you know?
Casey: Yeah.
Amanda: And then there's two chapters on managing your mind. One about defensive failure, which is what the TEDx talk is about, and one about self expertise, which is about accepting who you actually are and not [00:10:30] who you think you should be, and building your productivity, sort of routines and rituals around that person. And saying whatever to all the rest of the advice, like, oh, that doesn't work for me, or, I don't feel like trying that out right now, or whatever. And if you do it that way, then first of all, shockingly, you'll make much more progress on your Great Work. Like, it seems like you're slowing yourself down, but you're actually speeding yourself up and you are onto yourself. You have figured out what it looks like when you start [00:11:00] getting on that productivity rollercoaster of doom. I can feel it anyways, and the people who use the journal or work with me, we talk about it. It's like, oh, well I feel it. It's coming for me. I've said yes to too many things. I'm looking at my calendar and feeling stressed. I've got that Sunday afternoon freak out happening. And so it's really not like, oh, solve the problem instead. It's like be in relationship with yourself. Yeah. And be an active participant in shaping and crafting your life so that. Your Great Work is the priority and equal billing [00:11:30] with your happiness, health, and relationships.
Casey: Yeah, I love that. And I'm, you know, I'm personally resonate with that and I'm a one-on-one person, so I work with a coach who really supports me and like honoring that kind of accountability and supporting me and kind of managing all those yeses and drives and all the different pieces you're naming there. I'm just curious, do you hold group space for people to do that in community together with the journal? Are you doing that one-on-one with folks like what have you seen? Has it been very supportive?
Amanda: So I have a Mastermind that we open once a [00:12:00] year to people who are mostly clients or actually have been on my podcast or something like that. Like really close friends of the family can join the Great Work community, and that's a weekly mastermind, but next year I am starting like a quarterly project where you come and do the journal and we have these accountability to try to like live the life. It's hard to make group programs because the truth about Great Work is that it is a lifestyle choice. You have to do it that way forever.
Casey: Yeah.
Amanda: And it's not really something that you [00:12:30] necessarily have a transformational moment about like you can have a lot of insights, but then you have to walk the path and have little adjustments. So it needs to be something that once you've gone through the quarter where you get the extra support, you're like a lifetime member of it so you can come to the lock-ins and trying to figure out how to do that so that people can get, not just support 'cause eventually you learn how to do it, but community people who have the same language and want like would hold each other and say like, you seem stressed, you need to stop this. [00:13:00] Whereas I call so many of our friends, not friends, not my friends anymore, bless them, but like, you know, they wanna say things to you like, ah, you'll sleep when you're dead. Or like, this is your big shot. Or like, the stakes are really high or whatever. And that's. Very kind of them, but also you need friends who are saying like, you look tired. Go take a nap.
Casey: Yeah.
Amanda: Turn off your email and go take a minute. Are you going to yoga? So whatever it is, like whatever you said is your sanity goal. Having that language, first of all, you have to have one second that people need to check in with you. So that'll be [00:13:30] happening in 2026. There will be like a, a round the holidays, annual yearend review that will lead into the first quarter of 2026. So maybe I'll reach out then.
Casey: And I appreciate what you're saying about this differentiation between like the big transformational moment or shift the small actions and insights on the path towards what eventually becomes the transformational shift when you look back, but maybe as a-
Amanda: Yeah, right, exactly.
Casey: Oh, the big moment. We talk a lot about that with Questions [00:14:00] To Hold.
Amanda: Yeah.
Casey: We were talking about this before we came into the podcast, but that was the whole spirit behind the cards in my coaching, when people were asking like, what, what's my action step? You know, they just wanted to like move the needle, have the big moment. I totally understand that, that interest and yet when you wanna make it a lifestyle, when you need to make it a path that you're walking that again down the road, in the end you look back and you're like. My Great Work has been my whole life. This is my Great Work. Yeah. You know?
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Casey: It rarely, although it is satisfying when it does happen, but [00:14:30] it's not, it's about retraining. I think our own expectations of like that big transformational moment that happens over and over and over again-
Amanda: Yeah.
Casey: -For it to be sustainable. It's the insights we're following and I just really appreciate that part of the approach of your work that you're doing. I also can't help but thinking in this where it's like you named at a young age, you had a lot of clarity on your kind of like path in some way. Obviously it's like in circles and always like finding your way through it more, but what do you usually say to folks who are [00:15:00] like, I know I have a Great Work path inside of.
Amanda: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Casey: And I don't know what it is, you know? 'cause I've been in those places where I'm like, and I, I know many folks we talk about that feel that way, and there's nothing wrong with that too. So I'm just curious where and how you kind of lead people who are feeling like, I know it's there. How do I feel closer to it?
Amanda: I think it's related kind of to the idea of a transformation versus a path. So there's, there's two things. One, sometimes I have felt that way where I'm like, [00:15:30] what is, what am I doing with this life? Am I, you know, so I think everybody experiences it sometimes. And I think like, there's two things. One, it's like some people have denied themselves the like, right to be a specific person is like, kind of a weird way to say it, but like the schooling in almost everywhere is very, prove to me that you're good enough. Prove to me over and over and over and over again that you're meeting the standards that I've set. And you don't get to have a single [00:16:00] word about, right? Like, you just gonna meet my standards or not, and then I'm gonna benchmark you and put you on an improvement plan. And like, it's a very like, the right thing, the perfect thing. Like first of all, there is one, and second of all, it's outside of you. Like, you know how, you know all that stuff. So it's a very strong socialization package that we all have, that there is some right answer and it's out there. And so I think that that results in people saying, telling themselves a story and then believing it about how like, oh, some people have this like artist [00:16:30] soul or this calling or this, like whatever word sounds dramatic to them. And then they're like, some people do and I don't. Right? And so some of it is about having that conversation with them and saying like, I don't believe you. I've talked to hundreds of people about their Great Work, and I know for sure that you have some.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: What I know is that, you're denying it, there's something about it that you've decided is not possible for you.
Casey: Hmm.
Amanda: Like if you look back at your life without the blinders and the sort of beliefs and limiting beliefs and whatever you wanna call them, like, if [00:17:00] you look back at your life, like it'll be so obvious later, after you've really done the work, you'll look back and say, oh, it was so obvious. It was, how did I miss it? But it's not even helpful to think like that. It's like, just believe first that there's a, there, there, that you have Great Work inside of you. There's something you're uniquely interested in, something you'll never stop advocating for something that people, you'll never stop championing. Like there is a, there, there, there's a problem you wanna solve an industry you've been fascinated with since you were a child. Like, I don't believe you, that somehow you are just a [00:17:30] person without like a meaningful purpose inside of you. It's just not true.
Casey: Just looping back to what we were saying before in terms of, you know, some of the additional offerings that you're gonna put out in 2026, but-
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Casey: This is where I'm hearing more of the importance of. Kind of collaboration or even just support from somebody else in that process. Because what I'm hearing too is just, it can be one thing for myself to say, okay, believe. And then it can be really different if you, Amanda, are like Casey, [00:18:00] let's like look at these things, like let's believe, let's work on this together. There's a whole nother level.
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Casey: It becomes more communal or collaborative or supported and resourced from others. I, I just know that myself, but in the work we do where it's like sometimes we just can't see because of all the conditioning literally. So having the outside perspective get us there is where we can like start to build the belief and then start to go on.
Amanda: Yeah. Well and I think it's interesting because it has to be both like a back and forth. It's like [00:18:30] borrow my belief that there's a, they're there and then you go and look at it and you can't see it. And then I give you, you know, like whether it's me or just the people, like if everybody's on the same team. People will, will believe things and then give you a question to ask, right? Maybe from the Questions To Hold deck, or certainly in the chapter dedicated to figuring out what your Great Work is. There's a list of questions, but like just reading the questions doesn't, you have to reflect on the question, really, like write about it and then tell people and let [00:19:00] them say, yeah, I love that for you. And then you're like, oh, you didn't laugh, you didn't cry. Like you didn't tell me what a jerk I am. It's that, you know, being in relationship with it. From both a relationship with myself and then putting it out in the world so that you can see that other people are like, yeah, I've always known that about you. That sort of process of self-discovery is a big part of it. And so is surrounding yourself with people who a. Like the same things that you do so that you can feel normal and B, like really believe in [00:19:30] you and they don't need you to prove anything to them.
Casey: Right.
Amanda: And sometimes that's not the friends you currently have. You have to go in search of a community of people that resonate like that.
Casey: Yeah. And I wanna get to kind of some of the like tips or what people can do today kind of thing to like get started. But I feel like before this brings me to the, I know in some of your work, you talk about like the sabotaging of yourself or being your own worst enemy because before I wanna like, I wanna like preface with that because I think-
Amanda: Mm-hmm.[00:20:00]
Casey: Many of us can do that before then we're thinking about what the actions that we wanna take are or could take because there can be that loop and sometimes I think it's helpful to get. The pieces that we may sabotage out in front of us ahead of time so we're aware of them and then we can like still take the action in the other way. So what do you often see, like comes up for people or how that plays out for them in this path?
Amanda: Yeah, so I, I think self-sabotaging is so much of the work. It's like, not, not to [00:20:30] self-sabotage, but to overcome the impulse to do that. I think we all do it and it's like part of it is coming to an understanding of what it is that would lead you to essentially procrastinate as one big way. We self-sabotage. And the TEDx talk is really about three reasons inside ourselves, three beliefs that we're carrying that cause us to procrastinate. And so those three are very common that we think, oh, some people can do it and I can't, right? That's one. Another is, uh, that's just not the [00:21:00] kind of person I am. Which is the belonging mindset. And then there's like, I don't want to mindset, right? So that's three. But I also find that there's this, if you're a woman, especially if you're a mother, then there is a guilt component that is often running in the background saying like, you shouldn't put this kind of time into yourself. You shouldn't. And so there's some untangling of that, and then there's- the three are hurry, worry, and guilt. So hurry is [00:21:30] like, do you not believe in your goal? Are you secretly trying to outrun it?
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: Because you think it's all gonna fall apart and everyone's gonna see what a fraud I am.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: And then worry is like whatever it is that makes you feel like you are a bad person or doing it wrong, you know, worry and then guilt. And so I think like between the three mindsets, which are beliefs that give you a ton of just internal permission to procrastinate and then hurry, worry and guilt, which I think of as in the journal, every day it asks [00:22:00] you like, what's gonna get in your way? And I noticed I kept putting that down. I feel guilty. I feel guilty. I feel guilty. Or. And then it was like, oh, it's hurry, worry, and guilt. For me, those are the three like jerks that get into my head and they're like, what are you doing? Why are you doing it? Explain yourself. And that's just that conditioning again, like that as though it could be the wrong thing to do. But I think, you know, all my life and now in my forties, I don't believe that anymore. I think, oh, doing the thing that makes me happy, [00:22:30] that makes the world better is couldn't be the wrong thing. So-
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: -I put a lot of that to, but it doesn't mean that the habit's not still there.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: So again, it's that self-reflective, you can know what they are, you can be fully informed, but then you have to like start the process of figuring out what it looks like when you start to feel guilty.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: Because sometimes it's not like you saying to yourself, gosh, I feel guilty. It's like you making plans and then canceling them. Because, oh, I didn't realize that there was a swim meet, even though like your husband was [00:23:00] prepared to take your, you know, whatever, like the whole thing was fine, but then you freaked out. Like that might be what your guilt looks like.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: So again, it just comes down to self expertise, which is one of the chapters.
Casey: And is part of the self expertise that you talk about. This kind of knowing how to mitigate. So when we have that like self understanding and self-awareness, then I know, I'm like, okay, I know that I'm going to feel hurried in this or whatever. So what I'm gonna do is have this kind of accountability or is that part of the self expertise work?
Amanda: [00:23:30] Yeah, it is. And I think like you learn what works for you and that's all we really need to know. So I say like, okay, I am feeling kind of guilty about this. So I'm very often when it comes to, these are called competing commitments in our mind, competing commitments fall apart if you just look at them like, does your thinking brain agree with the worried brain on this?
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: You know, the unexamined worry that everyone's gonna hate you if you go to this networking event instead of going to your daughter's swim meet. Is that true? You know, then all the [00:24:00] regular coaching, you know, tips and tricks kick in. What's interesting about it is that then you're like, oh, I know how I respond in these circumstances.
Casey: Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm.
Amanda: And that's what makes it super helpful.
Casey: There's so much in that. I wanna listen back. I'm with the listeners when this goes on. I gotta listen back to that part about like the mindsets and the hurry, worry, guilt. I'm like, Ooh, there's a lot in there. I know obviously your book goes into all this in so much more depth as well, as well as the journal, but I'm like. I need to, uh, dive in, investigate a [00:24:30] little bit more.
Amanda: Yeah. Do some ponders.
Casey: Exactly. Okay, cool. Well, let's, let's kind of like wrap towards the notion of like, what do we do today? One of the things we'll say a lot at the end of like, coaching our client sessions, which is like, how can we start today? And sometimes what we mean is like literally in the next 10 minutes after this call, like, what's gonna happen? So I'm just kind of curious like, what are some of those, I mean, you've touched on a number of them, but if the listener here wants to like move towards the big vision a little bit more. What are-
Amanda: Oh yeah.
Casey: What are the actions?
Amanda: So [00:25:00] often when we're doing something we've never done before, which is really what Great Work is sort of made up of, it's like stuff we've never done before or a version that's new and it scares us, right? It's very confronting because it keeps us on our revolving edge. So we talk a lot about how do we do things we've never done before, and one of the keys to that of course, and I'm sure in your coaching as well, is it's like, don't do something. Don't commit to something so big that it paralyzes you. Right? Commit to a smaller version of it. Get started. Learn some stuff, meet some people, get more comfortable, [00:25:30] whatever, right? Obviously that's a very important tip and trick, and that's part of self expertise too, where it's like, if you're feeling overwhelmed, don't sit around asking yourself why. Just make it smaller as the good news is. Once you get started, it'll get bigger fast. So that's part of it. But then there's also the question, I think one of the most important rituals and routines to get into when you're trying to do Great Work is to make sure that you're spending your time in alignment with your ultimate vision.
Casey: Yeah.
Amanda: So it's like there's the vision. Which is the [00:26:00] someday level. There's what we call the accessible aspiration, which is like in one or two years, if I really stay at it, this is what could become possible. And then it drops right down into the, to the 90 days this week and today.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: Which makes it so that. Five, 10 minutes today. I, you know, sometimes people try to work directly against a vision where're, like, I'm gonna be a New York Times bestselling author. Well, what do you do with 10 minutes to become a New York Times bestselling author?
Casey: Yeah.
Amanda: So that translation piece I think is really helpful.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: And then once you have it at a [00:26:30] a workable level, which both of those help you do.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: Then you have to ask yourself, what's gonna get in my way? And work is so to the mental contrasting. So it's like, don't be surprised. Like a, the classic example is like, I'm gonna write that guy an email and then you don't even, you haven't even thought for a second about what could get in your way and you're really mad about how it goes. It feels like the struggle bus.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: Versus what's gonna get in my way? And you're like, oh, I don't actually know that guy. I don't have his email address. I haven't been following him. I feel [00:27:00] kind of weird about the fact that I'm gonna ask him for a favor and we're not even friends. And then you're like, oh, well how do I get around that? Oh. I look up his email, I search through his LinkedIn. I do a little, so, but then it's like, now it's just my plan. It's not a surprise that has me upset.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: So I think like that's kind of like self-management. That's really helpful. That's called mental contrasting, and it's somebody else's work. It's not mine, but it's just built into everything because it's very, very powerful because you're gonna run into a roadblock. It's better if you anticipate it [00:27:30] and think your way around it.
Casey: I love that. Well, what else? What question would you leave the listeners with? Or is there anything else you wanna make sure kind of like comes into the frame or context of our conversation before we wrap? And oftentimes we do like to leave the listeners with some sort of a question, if you have one.
Amanda: Yeah.
Casey: Related.
Amanda: That's a good one. It's a question to hold.
Casey: Mm-hmm. Yes, exactly.
Amanda: So going back to a question you asked earlier, which is like if somebody says, I don't know what my Great Work is, one of the most powerful ways to find out what your [00:28:00] Great Work is is to ask yourself the question.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: What makes me so jealous when somebody else does it. Because like I'm not talking about like a little like, oh, that would be nice to have a boat. I'm talking about when somebody tells you that they got whatever accolade or accomplishment or whatever, and you have an almost out of a body level experience of jealousy.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: That is where you need to go looking.
Casey: And what if you don't experience that?
Amanda: Have you met [00:28:30] somebody who's never had jealousy?
Casey: No, of course there's some kind of jealousy, but I'm just thinking even personally, I'm like, huh, I don't know if there's been some maybe, and maybe for me the question is more or less about like a reward or acknowledgement.
Amanda: Yeah.
Casey: But there's that piece where I'm like, oh gosh, like you know, right now I'm really longing for more time with my children. So like-
Amanda: Uhhuh.
Casey: That piece is like definitely moving me towards the inquiry of probably where some of my Great Work is, is pointing me so that I kind of answered my own question in that or, Sat with my own [00:29:00] question a little bit more on it.
Amanda: Sat with it. Well, I think like people experience jealousy differently. I know that for a subset of the population, it is that sort of like, it feels almost like anger, but you know, immediately it's not because you're a grownup. You can't be mad at somebody because they got something you want. Like you should just go try to get that thing too. But I do think like what you described, that yearning
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: That can feel really like I'm talking about a feeling that's so strong and so immediate. Like somebody says, oh, I decided to take a sabbatical so I could spend six months traveling around with my kids. And you're like, Ugh.
Casey: [00:29:30] Yes.
Amanda: It takes your breath away.
Casey: Yes. That feels true. Yeah.
Amanda: That's the feeling like whether that's like my experience was, um, when I was in consulting, there was a guy, he was the founder of the company and he had been on Sesame Street and then he told me, he was like, oh yeah, it was little Mikey on Sesame Street. And I literally couldn't handle that he said it that. I was in this room. I was just like, completely like my, you never see those as cartoons where the hair gets like blown back.
Casey: Yeah.
Amanda: I was like that and I was like, oh, this is important to me. It has [00:30:00] nothing to do with him.
Casey: Yeah, no, absolutely.
Amanda: He's the mirror, right.
Casey: So interesting.
Amanda: Yeah. That's, that's the question to sit with if like, breathtaking jealousy, maybe not, but like breathtaking yearning or breathtaking, like I didn't even know that that was possible.
Casey: Yeah, yeah.
Amanda: That's, that's what we're looking for. Yeah. That then we're on to it.
Casey: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I feel a little more onto it after this conversation.
Amanda: Yay!
Casey: Um, yes. Thank you so much, Amanda. It was amazing to be talking with you, and I feel like it's just the [00:30:30] beginning of so many things. I can't wait to get your book, read your book, get the journal, and see what you have going on in 2026 to get some support.
Amanda: Love that.
Casey: Yeah.
Amanda: Thank you so much.
Casey: Thank you so much.
Amanda: Appreciate it.
Casey: Mm-hmm.
Thank you for listening to the Questions to Hold podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode and are leaving the conversation with way more questions than answers. I invite you to build a more meaningful relationship with yourself and the world around you through the simple yet profound act [00:31:00] of holding questions. Visit questionstohold.com and wearebwb.com to learn more about this practice our questions to hold card deck, and explore more conversations. See you there.