EP 54: "Your Child is Not Broken" - Bitesize Summaries

Episode 54

Ever wondered if neurodiversity might just be an evolutionary adaptation? This week we are diving into another "BiteSize Summary" episode as we revisit our enlightening conversation with Heidi Mavir, author of 'Your Child is Not Broken', from episode 13. Olivia and her bitesize co-host Tamsyn discuss their favourite points from a wise and hilarious episode, including looking at the origins of neurodiversity, the blame of parenting in neurodiversity, and Olivia and Tamsyn's everchanging parenting journeys.

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Transcript

Dr Olivia Kessel: 0:06

Welcome to the Send Parenting Podcast. I'm your neurodiverse host, dr Olivia Kessel, and, more importantly, I'm mother to my wonderfully neurodivergent daughter, alexandra, who really inspired this podcast. As a veteran in navigating the world of neurodiversity in a UK education system, I've uncovered a wealth of misinformation alongside many answers and solutions that were never taught to me in medical school or in any of the parenting handbooks. Each week on this podcast I will be bringing the experts to your ears to empower you on your parenting crusade. Happy New Year. I can't quite believe it's 2024. This month will be the year anniversary of the Send Parenting Podcast. We are one years old. Thank you for listening, as many of us are still on holiday or our children are still on holiday.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 1:06

The next two episodes will be bite-sized summaries from two popular episodes last year, easy to listen and digest when time is of the essence. In this episode, I will be joined by my bite-sized co-host, Tamsen Hendry, the SEAT advisor, to discuss our top takeaways from podcast 13 with Heidi Mavir, author of the Sunday Times Best Seller. Your Child is Not Broken. Heidi's honesty, wit and lived an experience about her son and her journey to diagnosis with ADHD and autism is atonic and a great way to kick off the new year. Welcome Tamsen. It is our third bite-sized summary. Today we're going to tackle Heidi Mavir, who I have to say was one of my most direct and funniest guests with a wicked sense of humor, who has been on the Send Parenting Podcast. Why don't you start us off today in terms of what your top takeaway tips were from Heidi's podcast?

Tamsyn Hendry: 2:10

Yeah, that was really hard because there were so many. I would say that she's absolutely fearless inspirational.

Tamsyn Hendry: 2:22

I found the conversation between the two of you really interesting about the origin of neurodiversity, because it's a question that I hear all the time why do you think there's more people that are neurodiverse and what's the explanation for that, the understanding of that? Actually it's a natural process of it's a genetic mutation, a natural continuum of variation. Yeah, and it made me think well, maybe our children in the neurodiverse community are actually evolving. Humankind, yeah, absolutely yeah, really interesting conversation about that, and I think there needs to be more conversations about what people's belief is from different backgrounds, based on their expert opinion or their experience of the origin of you know, why is it happening? Is it actually happening or are we just getting better at identifying it?

Dr Olivia Kessel: 3:20

And also it comes. It ties in for me to the point of where there's that parental blame. Like you know, with even, I mean today. Like you know, before you can have an ADHD diagnosis, you have to go through parenting school, you know, because it must, and this is still today. You know what I mean. No, it's not. It has nothing to do with how we, as parents, raise our child. It is a genetic variation, you know, which changes the way our neurons speak to each other and how our synapses work and, as you say, it could be an evolutionary adaptation which will save our lives one day. Because with these, you know, neurodiverse people, myself included, we think out of the box. So you know we've got some big problems coming along the horizon which are going to need some pretty interesting solutions. So it's taking that blame from the parents and explaining it that it's just, you know, like we have different color hair, we have different color. You know different ways, we, you know the ways we're made up.

Tamsyn Hendry: 4:17

And it's interesting because I think it's almost that you know. I say to people all the time look, if you need to help with sleep or if you need this, just go through the motions, tell them yeah, I'll listen to you about a bedtime routine. No, I've never tried that before. Thank you so much. You know. Go to that aspect. What's interesting about the parenting courses you talk about, which often parenting puzzle or those kind of things, it's almost like, okay, we can't keep these children in the box anymore because parents have become more aware, so let's try and move a step and put the parents in a box. So, yes, you can explain this by neurodiversity, or you can take full accountability, because if we, if, if, um, if they don't put the accountability on parents, they've got to put it in policy. And the wider um, the wider government.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 5:02

And we wouldn't want to do that now, would we no?

Tamsyn Hendry: 5:04

definitely not Um. So, and also, what I really uh, took away from it was the importance of understanding the fight or flight response, Um, and actually how, if, when that isn't managed properly, it can lead to a trauma response. And actually, again, there is a slight change in the education system that more and more schools are becoming trauma informed, but again, still at the very early age, early stages of that Um. So those were my um, yeah, those are my top three.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 5:35

Yeah, and I think you know my my top takeaways are very aligned to yours as well, maybe looking at from a slightly different point. So you know the origin of neurodiversity but also the fact that there's this journey as a parent and Heidi was quite open and honest about it in terms of discovering your own neurodiversity through wanting to support and help your child, and that you know how her family you know getting together and all hugging each other. That's their normal and I think you know. If you look at, you know neurodiverse people tend to marry other neurodiverse people and have neurodiverse children. So you know it's normal and actually neurodiversity is normal and once we start classifying people as different or disabled or special, you know it's just a different. We're all part of the same interesting mosaic and puzzle of life, you know.

Tamsyn Hendry: 6:24

Yeah, and that was really when, you know, I was really thinking about that. When she talks about the fact that it wasn't a little husband said actually it's really not normal that when you go to a family party, you'll tickle each other and that's part of that. Without realizing it, they're sent to regulation and it's often the same for for all families that you go to all these, you know, you get a diagnosis. You go to all these groups, you do all this reading and actually you come full circle and realize that you were parenting your child how they needed to be parented in the first place, but without a label and without a book. And it's then, when you start introducing those books and those labels and everything else that you start doubting yourself and actually you're doing a really good job in the first place.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 7:05

And I think you know she highlights that really too in terms of again and I mean, we hear this from so many of the podcast guests that you need to trust your gut. But the fact is you are kind of programmed not to trust your gut because you're looking at and you know I'm a doctor, but I can still with teachers and whatever, and even with other doctors, you know, if they tell me something, I'm like, oh, okay, okay, you know. And so you know when, when she was, you know, dragging her child to go and touch that post at school, her gut told her that was completely wrong, but it took her, you know, and that, that, just it resonated with me because sometimes you listen and you shouldn't be listening, you know, and it's hard, especially with authoritarian figures like educators, like doctors, to actually say, no, you know what. Actually, I know my child the best and I know what needs to be done here.

Tamsyn Hendry: 7:54

You know and also it's that that under you know, when we talk about knowledge is power, and I know I always go back to the graduated response, the local offer. But it is about teachers saying, look, you know, why don't you try and bring school and touch the gate? So actually that that's maybe their take on a graduated response, but it certainly isn't what the graduated response is about and I certainly know from my situation, if I took my son and did that, once we're going to go to school and touch the gate, that would be the expectation forever. So it's about and I think one of Dr Maryam, I think, talks about it later is take the advice, but actually not all of it. Take that advice and relate it to your child and what your knowledge of him. But that I think the whole journey that you go on generally makes you feel vulnerable as a parent. So it's it's just re-educating yourself to tap into your instinct.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 8:52

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, my final thing was also, you know, finding your community, and I think Heidi has really done that. Not only she found a community, she's welcoming everyone to her community.

Tamsyn Hendry: 9:01

And she's very, you know. Yeah, I'd like to say yeah.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 9:09

Yeah, she's doing a. I think she's doing a seminar now. I saw on Instagram, you know, about you know explaining your neurodiversities and getting people to understand it, embrace it and love it. So it'll be interesting to see I think she's just launched it, actually this September how that goes. But you know, I take my hat off to her. What would you say, tamsen, were her top tips that she would have wanted us to take away?

Tamsyn Hendry: 9:33

So I, I I've had, I've I've got some ideas, but I would, I would I hope that we've taken from it what she would want us to. I'd say she probably wouldn't mind where everyone took from it. So touch up your inherent knowledge of your child. I think that was really loud and clear in her in her message. Again, prioritize your mental health or costs, which was also Dr Fisher's takeaway. Yeah, that you know that.

Tamsyn Hendry: 10:06

I think when, in a very honest way, when you live with a child who's got high anxiety levels, you almost become I don't know what the word is, but you almost become, you just become used to it that that high level of anxiety in your household feels normal, as your new norms. You live with it. But actually, no, it it that any child, any person living with that level of anxiety, that needs to be addressed because whatever, in whatever format that needs to be a day at home or actually mental health. It's made me remember again the importance of the reality of living with anxiety. It's, it can't be overlooked. And, like you said, find your community. So those, I think, were her three top 10, three mental health, finding your community and trusting your gaps.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 10:58

Yeah, and you know it's so important and none of those. You know those are simple things, but you can really. All of those things can get eroded, because you can be eroded as a parent in terms of your trusting, your gut and your confidence. You can. Also, your community is going to change to a degree. Do you know what I mean? Your community that you wrote in you might not fit there. So then there's also, I don't know, I felt sometimes shame or unable to connect with people that didn't understand or even I wouldn't even you know share with them what I was going through.

Tamsyn Hendry: 11:28

But finding, finding you know, then going to a special school and finding people like me, finding other parents like me, was very liberating and also I think Dr Fisher made a really good point and and I did hear it within HIDES as well is be careful that your community doesn't become an echo chamber. You know, find a community of people that are further on than you, that can advise and help you, but also people you can support, the behind you as well as people on their journey, as well as people at your level. So you know, if you go in I've gone into communities before that I think will be helpful and there's a lot of anger and I'm not there, I've passed that or I'm not there yet. So actually understanding when it's time to remove yourself and find a new community.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 12:12

Yeah, I'm on a WhatsApp group that I've just terminated because of that reason and and you've got to find the right one for you.

Tamsyn Hendry: 12:22

That's okay, that they need because that's part of their journey. But recognizing when that's not good for you anymore or not helpful, or or you're disagreeing with everything that's being said, then it's time to to you know, spread your wings.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 12:37

That there's a saying there, because you like saying there's a reason in the season.

Tamsyn Hendry: 12:41

Absolutely, that is so true, and actually sometimes you hang around a bit longer because you can be of help to other people, but then it's still time to go.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 12:50

Yeah, and that's one thing I really have to admire about all the mothers that I've met is that everyone is willing to help. Do you know what I mean? There's a general feeling of wanting to give back, wanting to help, and you know, I think that that is lovely.

Tamsyn Hendry: 13:05

And it's it's empathy like you've never known it before. Yeah, exactly.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 13:10

Absolutely Well, excellent. I'm sure I hope that Heidi will agree with us, and I'm sure she doesn't. We'll hear about it. So thank you, love you, bye, bye. Thank you, send Parenting Tribe for your continued support. I look forward to having you join us and meet our amazing guests through 2024. Next week, tamsen and I will be discussing another bite-size from parenting expert Dr Mary Ann. A must listen before school starts. For those of you who haven't already, please rate the podcast and follow us on Instagram at Send Parenting Podcasts. Wishing you a good week ahead.