Episode 60
It's time for another bitesize summary episode! Ever witnessed the sheer joy and transformation a child experiences through the simple act of play? This week, Olivia and co-host Tamsyn Hendry review episode 25 with Anna Hodgson and Becky Hill from ClearSky charity. From the huge increases play therapy has in emotional growth and easing peer conflicts, to bridging communication gaps, to guarding child mental health, they recap the magical effects of play therapy. They also look inwards and reflect how they have been able to introduce play more in their own parenting, and talk about the importance of making time (even if it's just 15 minutes).
Whether you're a parent in the throes of child-rearing or a caregiver looking for fresh perspectives, this is a lovely digestible episode geared with insights and resources to guide you through the intricacies of nurturing our future generations.
www.sendparenting.com
Episode 60
It's time for another bitesize summary episode! Ever witnessed the sheer joy and transformation a child experiences through the simple act of play? This week, Olivia and co-host Tamsyn Hendry review episode 25 with Anna Hodgson and Becky Hill from ClearSky charity. From the huge increases play therapy has in emotional growth and easing peer conflicts, to bridging communication gaps, to guarding child mental health, they recap the magical effects of play therapy. They also look inwards and reflect how they have been able to introduce play more in their own parenting, and talk about the importance of making time (even if it's just 15 minutes).
Whether you're a parent in the throes of child-rearing or a caregiver looking for fresh perspectives, this is a lovely digestible episode geared with insights and resources to guide you through the intricacies of nurturing our future generations.
www.sendparenting.com
Welcome to the Send Parenting Podcast. I'm your neurodiverse host, dr Olivia Kessel, and, more importantly, I'm mother to my wonderfully neurodivergent daughter, alexandra, who really inspired this podcast. As a veteran in navigating the world of neurodiversity in a UK education system, I've uncovered a wealth of misinformation alongside many answers and solutions that were never taught to me in medical school or in any of the parenting handbooks. Each week on this podcast I will be bringing the experts to your ears to empower you on your parenting crusade. In this episode I will be joined by my bite-sized co-host, tamsen Hendry sent advisor, to discuss the first of a three-part series of bite-sized podcasts looking at some of the traditional therapies discussed previously on the podcast to support children with neurodiversity. This first bite-size will look at the key takeaway points from episode 25, where Anna and Becky from the charity ClearSky shared with us the importance of making our child's mental well-being a priority and how play therapy can significantly improve their overall mental health. Please join me and Tamsen as we discuss how simple and easy it is to implement play therapy and the impact that it can have in terms of really improving your child's mental health and well-being. Welcome, tamsen, and thank you for joining me to co-host the Send Parenting Bite-sized Summary looking at traditional therapies.
Dr Olivia Kessel:Today we're going to kick it off with play therapy. We're going to look back at episode 25, where I spoke to Anna Hodgson and Becky Hill from the ClearSky charity about play therapy and the impact that it has on our neurodiverse children. Welcome, thank you. I know there was a lot to unpack in that and I wanted to kick it off today to kind of look at from my perspective. When I was talking to them I didn't realize really the impact that play therapy can have on mental well-being.
Dr Olivia Kessel:I think throughout this journey on the Send Parenting podcast, we don't in education systems potentially, and also as a parent at home value our children's mental well-being or put it as a priority in our kind of arsenal of things we want to do In our back of mind. We want to, but how do we actually improve our children's mental health and well-being? What really stood out for me within that podcast was that play therapy, something that we all have in our back pockets in our houses, is something that we can do with our children to improve their mental health and well-being. I think their statistics showed that they could increase emotional well-being by 24% and reduce peer difficulties in the schoolyard up to 30%. I thought that was really interesting. What were your thoughts on that?
Tamsyn Hendry:Yeah, I think it was a really good reminder about the importance of play and the impacts. I actually wrote down some things with the impacts because I thought they were really powerful, which was that play therapy allows empathy to become more visible. Yeah, and I think that was really powerful for me because when you actually see children in their natural state of playing, all the lessons and all the therapies, whether they be traditional or non-traditional, come to light because they're reenacting in a really natural way. So I think that really kind of hit home to me. And also that I think it felt really emotional when they said that the play therapy and the actual getting involved in reenacting things and metaphors and symbols and signs and all those things actually allows children to become stronger than they experienced themselves the experience they had. And I think that, yes, it absolutely relates to neurotypical children, but also children of experienced trauma, and many of our neurotypical or neurodiverse children have experienced trauma.
Dr Olivia Kessel:So, I love the way. I love the way she said you know, actually play is the natural language of children, you know. And you know, so expressing themselves is through play, whereas we might, as an adult, journal or Do something along those lines to process what we've been through for children. That naturalness is is in play?
Tamsyn Hendry:Yeah, and I'm actually. My background is in Montessori and Maria Montessori, many years ago, said play is the work of children and it's true for us. Yeah, you know so many parents put value on and it's not wrong.
Dr Olivia Kessel:But whether they can write their name or whether they encounter whether that actually can they play and Actually for neurodiverse children that play can come at different times and then with different trajectories of when they're playing. When Imaginative play happens, you know, for an autistic child might happen later and might happen in a different way than for a neurotypical child. So it's, it's also not putting barriers in terms of I you know, I know some parents with nerd you know who say, oh, you're too old to play now. You know, and I know we've discussed it before with you hiding the doll in the cupboard and me telling my daughter to own own Playing with her doll. You know, like the importance of it and actually the importance of us tapping into it as an adult.
Tamsyn Hendry:Yeah, and I think also, you know, for my son he didn't play, was not natural for him. So I used to use a user, the iPad, and Put on children playing on the iPad and he would copy their play and it evolved from there. So, so actually, children that can play naturally, that should be absolutely embraced, because for those who have to teach our children to play, you realize actually it's really hard work to teach. Teach someone to play which also led on to when they talked about it doesn't feel natural for lots of us. You know it can, you know you shared lots of great experiences that you're engaged with the dolls for five minutes, then you've had enough. You know it's very liberating if you can let yourself go and play with your child and very, very bonding, you know.
Dr Olivia Kessel:And it's funny because, like this weekend, we carved our pumpkins right and I definitely tapped into my inner child, you know, sawing away at the pumpkin, and she's like, mommy, we're really having bonding time, aren't we? I'm like, yeah, we are.
Tamsyn Hendry:But it's when you need your pumpkin to look perfect that that could be tricky.
Dr Olivia Kessel:Luckily, I had to give up on, you know, the jagged mouth I'm like. I'm going to redesign this, but you know, I think, and another thing that really stuck out to me, you know, on this topic of playing, on the topic of our children's, you know, developing is also that our children's minds stay young. You know, they still have a teenage brain until they're 25 and I don't think that's common knowledge, you know.
Dr Olivia Kessel:We kind of look at them at 15 and 16 and think you know they need to step up, they need to take their GCSEs, they need to be these adults that they're not.
Tamsyn Hendry:You know They've still got a lot more cooking to do before they're they're ready and I've got friends with Children with difficulties that are much older and and they say they categorically have seen more development from the age of 18 to 25 Than they did in already years. So it really does, they do keep growing and they do keep developing Right up to 25. And neurotypical children too, you know they still need that guidance, that advise, that that support right up to that age.
Dr Olivia Kessel:And not and not expecting to be adult, like you know, which is is really key. One of you know One of the the other things that I thought was really interesting is making that time to use play. As a parent and you know we're all so busy I mean every hour of the day, I think, seems to be packed with stuff and so finding that time when you can actually play with your child, where you put your phone away, where you can actually have that one-on-one time, is challenging.
Tamsyn Hendry:It's really challenging and I think I loved the story you shared about your mom Trying to see she was she was ahead of her time, she would have and you know she would have love.
Dr Olivia Kessel:It was called love time and you know we'd move from England to America. My parents had a small business that they had a lot of problems with, so they you know she worked long hours but she would come home every night and we'd each get 15 minutes without the sibling, which was like, oh, and we could do whatever we wanted with her. And when I became an adult, she said to me you know, olivia, sometimes I would actually cry in the car before I came in because I couldn't, but we never felt that. You know what I mean.
Tamsyn Hendry:Yeah, and I think it is that that, that message it came through all the time and I'm trying to get the percentages, but I think it was they gave us if, if you're good enough, 30% of the time, you know, if you, if you give them just 15 minutes, that that's really real bonding time and build.
Tamsyn Hendry:You know we've talked before about every household should have a non-negotiable and in your household your mom had a 15-minute non-negotiable and this, this podcast, really served as that reminder for me. You know that, that 15 minutes of Absolute focus on your child, whatever that might be. My daughter did it last night. We were doing she was showing me a dance that she does at her dance school and we did 15 minutes and we had we really laughed, you know, and you laugh and you can't stop laughing and I think we don't build enough time for that and actually the whole evening afterwards was great because we'd had that time and I think that really was a valuable. You know, one of probably the most important things that came across from that podcast of make the time. 15 minutes is not enough and actually 15 minutes 30% of the time, yes, you know, that's achievable for all of us.
Dr Olivia Kessel:Exactly, and it's, you know, it's not rocket science. That's what I really love about it is it's not rocket science. And you do see that kind of hangover effect of it in your children's behavior. After you've taken that time to just be focused on them and not be doing something else, I'm constantly. I think, you know I do have ADHD traits because my daughter's being diagnosed and my father actually just admitted to me last night. He's like Libby, I think you are right. I'm like, yes, you have ADHD. You just, you know, you haven't been diagnosed. So I tend to do a thousand things at once. So, you know, while I'm being with you, I'm going to do the dishwasher and I'm gonna cook dinner and I'm gonna, you know, do another million other things. And that's what I have to stop. I have to stop and be present just with her, you know 100%.
Tamsyn Hendry:You know, at the weekends, my son went out with his granny to watch a film and I think this is particularly important if you've got, if you're like me, where you've got one. My son is neurodiverse and my daughter's neurotypical and he went out with his granny to see a film and I said well, what do you want to do? Do you want to go to Starbucks? Do you want to go to the park? What do you want to do? And she said I want to push the sofas together, draw the curtains, and I want you to watch a film with me and I don't want you to go to sleep. So that's what we did. We made a nest. We made a nest in the living room and we watched a film, and I didn't turn my laptop on and I didn't bring my phone through and I didn't. And it really does make a difference.
Dr Olivia Kessel:Yeah, you know, and you think, oh, we're just watching a movie, it doesn't matter if I do something else, but it does make a difference.
Tamsyn Hendry:Yeah, it does. And also I thought that you know I really I love the programs they do are also excellent. They do the head heart heart program and the talk of reflective functioning. And I think that's come up in many, many podcasts, maybe not with that name, but with Peter Peter I can't remember his name Peter Vonage, peter Vonage, vonage. Yeah, peter Vonage coined that term of reflective functioning, that everything that we're doing we need to reflect on. You know how our children are playing, what's the silent voice of the child, what are they showing us without telling us? And I think, as parents of neurodiverse children or young people, we learn to be reflective in our functioning. We have to be because we've been detectives for so long, so I think that was really useful. And to think about what you know with their program of head heart, hands is head is watching, heart is wondering and hands is Um letting them know about it.
Dr Olivia Kessel:So, I think, each one of the we, each one is so important and it takes that reflection on the parent to be able to to stop and watch and not we have a constant chatter in our head of why this is going on or why they're doing this or you know, and it it might not be the correct, uh, we, we, we, you know we jump to our own conclusions.
Dr Olivia Kessel:This happens as a as a consequence of being human. But if you can slow yourself down and watch, to understand and have that empathy and put yourself in their shoes, you know, it reminds me actually of I do coaching, actually health coaching, as another one of the things that I do. And motivational interviewing, interviewing is part of that and it's to listen, to understand and reflect back what those individuals are saying to you and then validate it, which this, this, does have a. It feels kind of similar and it's very powerful because it puts you in their place and it also shows them that you've understood where they're coming from or, if you haven't, it gives them the opportunity to then correct you.
Tamsyn Hendry:Yeah, and how many of us do truly, hands on heart, listen to understand, you know, even in play.
Dr Olivia Kessel:Not even 30% of the time.
Tamsyn Hendry:I'm playing with my children. I'm waiting for my turn to have an input. So it is it's. It takes reflective practice to to get used to that and learn about it. And I think you know, like my daughter says me all the time, you don't mean it. When you play, you don't mean it and I think, yeah, she's, she's right. It's really hard to let go of those inhibitions. But what I think mostly we could learn through play therapy and I think this could be transcended through all areas of sin is that they understand the importance of working with parents as well as children, and that's something that doesn't show itself up in many therapies. It's what that doctor's opinion, or traditional therapies that's. This is our opinion as the medical professional whereas actually with play therapy, it's very much starting with grounding the parents in order to be able to work with the children, and I think that's a lesson that we could, we could take away from that in lots of areas of sin.
Dr Olivia Kessel:And and you know it's so true and it was one of, like, the key takeaways that I took away no pun intended was was the co-regulation. Do you know what I mean? So as much as I've been fussing and and focusing on the fact that my daughter has difficulty with emotional dysregulation, I wasn't actually turning that mirror inwards and looking at my own emotional dysregulation and how that was upping her emotional dysregulation. You know, and it's hard to actually look yourself in the mirror and say, wait a minute, and you can't fake it. You know I can't fake being calm and pretend that you know she knows it. You know they're like dogs, they sense these things. You know you can't. You have to actually be calm.
Tamsyn Hendry:Yeah, and I think we as parents, we run such high alert we've been on such high alert for so long that it's really hard to recognize that as as dysregulation, because it becomes our norm.
Dr Olivia Kessel:Yeah, yeah, you're, you're at that constant, yeah, and it's funny, for like, for me, I I have had to find what, what, what lowers my bucket and makes me, you know, a more regulated individual, which for me, is exercise. And I recently hurt my knee over the the holidays and I couldn't run anymore, which is the way and my daughter even said to me mommy, I think you need to run.
Dr Olivia Kessel:Run away, that's what I felt like doing damage me or not. But yeah, you know, and and, and, then also the modeling of that, because then you can, when your child sees you be able to control your emotions, or become dysregulated and then become regulated. That's where they learn. They don't actually learn from anything. I don't believe that we tell them they learn from what we show them.
Tamsyn Hendry:Absolutely, and I worked. I remember working with a therapist and, and you know, another thing that came out from play therapy was that all emotions are okay, that that that's a lack, they're allowed to be expressed. And I think we all shy away from certain emotions. And I worked with a therapist recently because I've found it really challenging for my son moving from childhood to being a young adult, and one of the things he said was your sarcastic and patronizing. And so we we had this dialogue of no, I'm not, I'm not those things and yes, you are.
Tamsyn Hendry:So we worked with this guy who basically said stop telling him you're not and stop telling mom she is point out to her over the course of the next week every time she's doing it. And actually he did, and what we came to the conclusion was he saw me as patronizing and sarcastic when I was really trying hard to stay regulated, when what I wanted to do is absolutely flip and in the end, as you said to me, I'd rather you flip. I can work with that. I just understand that. I can understand that. So so now I do Interesting. It's quite helpful because he knows it's okay for me to get to be absolutely tipping point sometimes, and it's okay for him to be at absolute tipping point sometimes. So I think the play, though the message I got from them, was really about being absolutely honest with how you feel, so that the children can be honest with how they feel, because when we start from an honest playing ground, we can build on that, we can, we can heal from there.
Dr Olivia Kessel:Yeah, absolutely. And what was also great is they have courses where, if you are struggling, you know at the different stages. You know from from babyhood to when they're you know in primary, secondary school, and then to older, when they're like more your son's age. You know that they can. They can actually help to facilitate, to teach you how to communicate if you're struggling with it.
Tamsyn Hendry:You have to evolve as a parent, because play therapy goes beyond. You know it starts off with dolls and cars and everything else. But me and my son play, you know we play with words. We play with you know we. He often says would you rather? You know we play that all the time. What would you rather? And usually I don't want to do any of the things. That are the suggestions, but there's still play and you can still be playful and I think you have to revisit who you are, who you want to be as a parent, at each stage in their trajectory as they grow.
Dr Olivia Kessel:Yeah, absolutely. And to keep it lighthearted as well. And to, to yeah, to open yourself up. I think is also important, you know.
Tamsyn Hendry:Yeah, definitely.
Dr Olivia Kessel:Now any other great tips that we could think of before we go on to what their great tips were. Have I forgotten anything?
Tamsyn Hendry:Another thing that I felt was really useful for the in the information that they gave was that recognizing, as parents at one, once a person's cortisol levels are up there, you know so once they are already in that red zone. But anything you do, whether you try to engage in play, whether you try, whatever you try to do is the healing strategy is not going to work straight away because they need to come back down. And I think that was really helpful, because I go into this fixing mode all the time, whereas actually they, they would say we don't even begin to engage in the play or the program in any way until they've regulated again. Because sometimes you just need to give them time. And I think you know I'm very guilty of that, of thinking I know I'll do play therapy now because that will work.
Tamsyn Hendry:And actually you just and that came up through many, many podcasts that we've listened to that once their cortisol levels are high, you need to just allow that to disperse your, their body. And I read something a long time ago and I can't give exact figures on it, but I remember it amazing me how long actually those those levels stay high in your body. You know, it's not a case of an hour or two hours. It was a significant period of time before a person could regulate again, and I found that really interesting.
Dr Olivia Kessel:But before the body can metabolize actually those hormones back again. And it's interesting because, you know, my daughter and I, over this holiday, like you know, she'll say to me, mommy, do breathing. And I'm so angry and I'm like I can't do breathing, you know. And and she's like, well, see, when you tell me to do breathing, that's how I feel. I'm like you know what, you are right, and so you know, I'm like, so we, we put our heads together and we're thinking well, it really is irritating when someone tells you to do breathing, when you're really dysregulated. And I'm like you know what? Yes, it is.
Dr Olivia Kessel:So I said you know what really. I said let's, let's try some different things that would, you know, help us to kind of just not to go into solution mode but just take you down from that really mode. And so I said you know what, if you just said to me, like I can really understand, mommy, that you know this is really frustrating and making you upset, and I said so, I said let's wait. Because I said, you know, both of us are going to blow up anytime now. So we, we waited and we both tried it on each other and just validated the fact that that is really irritating that mommy is asking you to do this and you are really into Minecraft right now and you know, and just validating why she was so upset with me really helped her and the same with me to her, and that it's normal and okay to feel that way and it kind of diffused it for both of us a bit and it allows you to heal and move forward from someone's listening to you and can feel your pain.
Dr Olivia Kessel:I think.
Tamsyn Hendry:Yeah, and I think it's that it's. It's also really valid when we talk about again I think it was occupational therapist that said this to me once it's not about losing your temper, it's about how quickly you return to being a safe person. Yeah, for that child and and I've really hung on to that makes me feel so much better. Because when you say 30% of the time you get if you can get it right 30% of the time, great, that is an acknowledgement that 70% of the time we can get it wrong and allow us to forgive ourselves. And again creating by having the groups that they have through the play therapy for parents again you're creating community of people that understand where you're at, absolutely.
Dr Olivia Kessel:And I think we've kind of touched upon some of what you know. They. They put as some of their their three top takeaways that I asked them you kind of stress this as well as you know to remember to keep being playful and to play as you've just highlighted, you don't. You know you don't need to be good enough, you know you can just just have that quality time and never give up fighting for what your child needs. And I think that that's I haven't met a mother yet of a neurodiverse child that doesn't keep fighting.
Tamsyn Hendry:Quite honestly, Exactly, and goes back to Alexandra song. You know, never give up. It's, it's so, it's, it's so, true, isn't it?
Dr Olivia Kessel:Yeah, so I think that's a lovely way to end our pocket rocket of a podcast looking at play therapy. That's a lot of peas there, but and we'll have all the information of where people can contact clear sky and see where that the play therapies that we've mentioned today are available, because they they are across the UK that they have. They have offices and therapists that can help you. So thank you, tamsen, welcome. Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening. Send parenting tribe. I hope you are now all inspired to tap into play with your children at home. Definitely inspired me. I'd love to hear from you in terms of what podcasts or who you would like to hear in the future. You can reach out to me on social media's Instagram, linkedin, facebook or TikTok, or you can leave a comment on our website, which is s e n d. I'm wishing you all a playful week ahead.