EP 67: Cultivating Resilience with Dr. Maryhan

Episode 67

This week we are joined once more by the esteemed Dr Maryhan, in an episode that promises to equip you with the tools to nurture the skill of bouncing back from life's hurdles. The skill of resilience is both crucial to a neurodivergent child's life and simultaneously one that can be more difficult to cultivate due to the extra support our children need.

We talk Ginsburg's 7 C's of Resilience (with a focus on 'confidence' and 'competence'),
 Embark on a journey to understand the heart of parenting neurodiverse children—resilience. With Dr. Olivia Kessel and the esteemed Dr. Maryhanas your guides, this episode promises to equip you with the tools to nurture the skill of bouncing back from life's hurdles. We dissect Ginsburg's seven C's, with a focus on 'competence' and 'confidence', the importance of experiential learning, and balancing empathy and support with allowing the room for trials, failures and learning. We also discuss the importance of connections beyond the family unit, how to cultivate healthy coping mechanisms, and the empowerment that comes from control and agency.

Finally, we share the palpable excitement for Dr Maryhan's upcoming "Raising Resilient Adults" Conference (for which I, Dr Olivia Kessel, am a guest speaker). Parents, educators, and all invested in the future of neurodiverse children, join us in this pivotal conversation and walk away with a renewed commitment to the resilience-building journey.

It Takes A Village Conference will be held on 18th April 2024 at Farnborough-Hill school. It is for parents and professionals who want to hear from experts on how best to raise resilient adults.

To buy tickets click on this link  https://drmaryhan.com/ittakesavillage/

www.sendparenting.com

Transcript

Dr Olivia Kessel: 0:06

Welcome to the Send Parenting Podcast. I'm your neurodiverse host, dr Olivia Kessel, and, more importantly, I'm mother to my wonderfully neurodivergent daughter, alexandra, who really inspired this podcast. As a veteran in navigating the world of neurodiversity in a UK education system, I've uncovered a wealth of misinformation, alongside many answers and solutions that were never taught to me in medical school or in any of the parenting handbooks. Each week on this podcast I will be bringing the experts to your ears to empower you on your parenting crusade. In this episode we are welcoming back Dr Marianne, a world-renowned parenting expert and psychologist who hosts the globally charting podcast how Not to Screw Up your Kids.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 0:58

In episode 26 last year we had a candid discussion of the importance of looking at parenting advice through a reflective lens and ensuring it's really fit for purpose for your wonderfully wired child. Today we're going to unpick the topic of resilience and the importance of empowering our neurodiverse children to be resilient even with the greater challenges and hurdles that they face at school and in life. So welcome back, dr Marion. It is a pleasure to have you back on the SEND Parenting Podcast. I enjoyed our discussion so much last year and today we're going to focus on a really key topic, which is resilience and how important it is to teach our kids resilience.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 1:39

And in education nowadays, that's not something we focus on. We focus kind of on achieving targets being the best. We don't focus on what do we do when life throws us curve balls, when we're in adversity, when we're in challenges, and that's what resilience is about and building resilience is so important. I mean, life is not easy. Life is about knocks, life's about challenges and it's how you bounce. And, unbeknownst to most people, resilience isn't something you're born with. You actually have to learn it, you have to practice it, you have to repeat it, it's a skill and you have to be supported in it. So I'm super excited because you, as a psychologist with your amazing brain to pick your mind about resilience in our children and as a parenting guru excuse me, I forgot that accolade how we can, what your thoughts are in terms of how we, as parents and educators, can build resilience and help our children with this really key skill in life?

Dr Olivia Kessel: 2:34

Yeah, I mean, that's a big, big opening question there.

Dr Maryhan: 2:37

It is, but it's such a crucial thing. I think, as parents and educators, we get so caught up in the academics and achieving in that sort of that realm which I'm not anti-school, I understand that that has a place but actually, in the world of work and in being a responsible, capable adult, it's all about your resilience, your ability to bounce back from setbacks, and so that's a really crucial aspect that I think we don't focus in on. And I think, before I kind of talk about the sort of the components of what it takes to raise a resilient child and therefore resilient adults, there are two sort of things that we need to keep in mind in terms of context that we also need to sort of put in. There is. The first one is that children and teens are likely to model what they see, so we need to not only be considering what are the skills that we need to teach children and teens, but we also need to be asking ourselves how do I as an educator, how do I as a parent, model and work towards my own resilience? Because that's what they're going to be looking at is, how do I demonstrate resilience day in, day out? And that can be just resilience in terms of, you know, day to day challenges in terms of relationships with people, in terms of boundaries. So I think that that's one of them.

Dr Maryhan: 4:06

And then the other part, from a context perspective, is that we get what we expect. So if we expect our children and teens to be resilient and to be able to demonstrate some of these components and to raise the expectations and I'm not talking in expectations academically, but expectations in terms of how we respond to situations, and that is what we will get back but if we're always setting the bar low, that's what our children and teens will go to. But if we set the bar high, compassionately and with support, that's absolutely what we'll get. And when we sort of talk about resilience, I love Ginsburg's seven C's because I think it gives us a really great framework. So his seven C's are competence this idea about children learn not by being lectured at and lectured to. They become competent through experience. That's how they learn. They make mistakes, they learn from their behavior. So how can we cultivate, as parents, an environment that encourages our children to learn by doing? And how can we cultivate that in schools, rather than always at the board or always telling?

Dr Olivia Kessel: 5:24

how can we create an experiential learning environment, and that's a really it's so key there also to make those mistakes, because it making mistakes is frowned upon at school and children are almost afraid to make a mistake. But that is really where the learning happens is when you've tried something and it hasn't worked. Yeah, you learn more from that than than a million lectures and you never forget it either.

Dr Maryhan: 5:50

And that's what's so crucial, isn't it? It's that competence that you get from learning, and then what you then get is a really incredibly powerful tool of that pupil, that student, then being able to teach others from their own competence and from their learning and from their experience. And I don't believe that we do that enough, because I think it's framed from that perspective of that we have the knowledge as the adult and that we want to impart that. And often it feels like the quickest route is by telling, but actually the strongest, more permanent route is by doing, it makes total sense.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 6:32

If you think personally, it makes complete sense. So that's C number one.

Dr Maryhan: 6:36

Yeah, so that's competence C. Number two is about confidence, and what's crucial with confidence is we should not be waiting until we feel confident enough to do something. Confidence is not passive, confidence is active. We gain confidence by doing, not waiting for it to suddenly magically appear and find us. We have to do, and part of that obviously is again around cultivating a culture within an education system, within a school, but also cultivating a culture within our home that actually it's okay to try, and if it doesn't quite work out, then that's fine too. We've got to cultivate this culture A failing is a natural part of learning rather than waiting until things are just right before we give that a go. And that's also in terms of how we model our own confidence and the language that we use internally with ourselves that we also model to our children. Yeah, so the second C is definitely this idea about confidence is an active word, not a passive word.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 7:49

And I know there's challenges as a parent. When you kind of let go of some of those things to let your children try, like cracking eggs, for example, or you know putting plates that you might not want to be broken into the sink or dishwasher, you have to kind of step back and you know sometimes it will be a total disaster. But then you learn from it. You know so it's, it's. It's sometimes a little bit more time consuming, but, as you say, that's where the magic happens and that's where the learning and the resilience happens.

Dr Maryhan: 8:16

And it's about also being self-aware as a parent. You know I'm a very self-confessed, I'm very open. I'm a very self-confessed, I'm very open. I'm a very self-confessed control enthusiast. So there's a lot of you know, I can remember times with my children, that whole kind of wincing like and not wanting to let them do it, because it was like, oh my God, my kitchen's a mess when they were wanting to cook. I'm right there with you, but you know to thine own self, be true, Understand who you are and how that might get in the way, and then do it anyway and just take that deep, sharp, take a breath.

Dr Maryhan: 8:50

My mother I always remember very vividly my sister and I used to love baking on a Sunday and my mother clearly knew herself very well because she would let us bake but she had to close the kitchen door. It was like you do what you need to do in there, I don't need to see it, and when you're're finished, please make good and only then open the door and let me back in. So it's just, it's just knowing that. I think we get, and I genuinely I say this with love, but we so often get in the way of our children's resilience and their learning and their experience and their confidence. And then we kind of put our hands up in the air and we ask ourselves why is my child not confident? Why won't they do this? Well, they don't do it because we don't let them fail.

Dr Maryhan: 9:39

So competence, confidence. The third one is connection, and this is really a crucial one about how our resilience comes from the connections that we make, through those friendships that we have, the people in our lives and the community that our children create through their friendships, through their school, through their outside school, through the activities that they do. That helps them with that bouncing back, because they understand that they're part of something wider and that there is something there to catch them. It may not be the direct thing that catches them, but they understand that it's bigger than just them, that they've got this whole community and this collective around them that will always be there for them, regardless of what might happen.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 10:26

Yeah, it's interesting because I was listening to Dr Russell Barkley the other day. He's a clinical psychologist, retired now in America and he was saying as parents we think we have such an impact on our psychological well-being of our children, but actually it's the communities outside of the home that has the biggest impact on their psychological well-being, because of that community, that connection outside of the home, and how important that is for our children and the research shows you know. So it's extremely interesting because I hadn't. I hadn't. Actually you feel as a parent you have so much control, but actually it's the environments you put your children in and the communities that they build.

Dr Maryhan: 11:04

Completely and obviously we have a big impact, but that in lots of ways begins to diminish the older that they get, because they actively seek out information from their community and we all know it. As parents we've had that. We've tried to suggest something for our children. We've given a piece of advice or we've said something, and it's literally water off a duck's back. They don't listen to it, but their friend's mother says it, or their activity leader or their mentor or someone at school, and suddenly they come back paraphrasing exactly what we've said. But suddenly it's like oh well, they've said this and it's really amazing and I should do it. And we're sort of stood there thinking. I think I might have actually mentioned that myself, but I'm gonna let that one slide. So that connection is really crucial and you know it's also remembering. You know the analogy that I make so often is that our children are a building under construction and and we always need to be thinking with the end in mind and part of that in mind when we think of ourselves as adults. We are individuals, but we are so reliant on the connection and the community that we have, whether that's work colleagues, whether that's our friends they may be our childhood friends might have our parenting friends, we might have our activity and interest friends, that they're all part of our community. That is important for us too as well as for our children. That is important for us too as well as for our children. So that connection is a really crucial piece.

Dr Maryhan: 12:36

And I also think the fourth C is all about character and I think this definitely comes from the foundations that we create. It's the values and the beliefs with which our children connect, with which we initially create, as part of the foundations, you know what values, whether that's honesty and integrity. Those are part of the foundation layers that we kind of provide as part of the culture within our home. But our children then find their values and what's important to them, what will they accept and what the things that they won't accept in terms of how people treat them, what matters to them, what's important to them. And I think where we typically kind of inhibit character building and those values is where we model inconsistent applications of those values. So we may say that we value honesty within our home but we apply that inconsistently. So we value it in one context, but in another context our children see us being deceitful. And we might be being deceitful because we don't want to hurt someone's feelings, but that still contradicts this value of honesty. So you know, character is a really important aspect of building that resilience, because then you know who you are and how that impacts how you then respond to those around you.

Dr Maryhan: 14:06

So that's sort of C number five and C. Well, actually, no, that's C number five. Well, actually, no, that's C number four. C number five is all about contribution. So understanding that our helping our children understand that they're part of something bigger than them and that their contribution to this broader village, this broader community is valued and that the world with which they inhabit and the people that surround them would be less rich without them. And I think that's quite a difficult one, I think, for children to grasp, because they feel sometimes, particularly when they're not feeling particularly confident, is that you know, who am I? What does it matter? I'm not as important. But actually seeing that they're part of a contribution. And that's where the broader context in which our children operate within would be that the road that they live in, the neighborhood that they live in, the community that is their school, the community that is the wider family, those things really make a big difference because that resilience gets built from this idea that I'm bouncing back because I know I'm important to other people and I know that I matter.

Dr Maryhan: 15:19

And then the other two are all around coping and control. So coping is all about learning healthy ways to manage stress, one of the key differentiators of someone who's resilient. Everyone experiences stress and overwhelm. The difference between someone who is resilient is that they found ways of coping with it and they understand that it's within their realm of control. They have agency. They can act upon the situation that they find themselves in. It doesn't mean that they can act upon it and always manage to get themselves out of it in a healthy, happy way, but they manage to find themselves and get out of it and then learn whether that's a setback or not.

Dr Maryhan: 16:04

And so coping is a massive part and we diminish our children's coping strategies when we dive in too quickly to fix, to try and save them, to try and sort things out for them. We take away, we diminish their agency, we diminish that power that they feel that they have because we take that control away. And control is not about being rigid. Control is much more about feeling that actually I can act upon this situation and it be different as a result of it. So, though, I mean, I love that framework because it's really easy and it means that when we look at it as a parent or as an educator, we can say well, which of the C's does this particular child need some support and scaffolding, with which of these C's are their strength, and so we can then start bridging the gaps between those Cs that are not quite there yet.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 16:57

Yeah, and it's a great framework, also as a parent, to see where you might need to adjust and flex your parenting to enable them to have the opportunities to grow in those different categories.

Dr Maryhan: 17:10

Yeah, yeah, definitely, and we do it. We get in the way, not because we're doing it intentionally. We're doing it because we think we're doing the right thing to help, support them, to reduce. No one wants to see their child feeling overwhelmed or stressed or feeling so anxious that they're paralyzed. But we also have to accept and understand that stress is an everyday part of life and that actually is good for us. We have that because that's an alert system to our body to say something's happening here. I might need to just adapt and change the way I'm responding. So let's see it in a good way rather than always being something that we want to remove.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 17:54

And it becomes even more complex, I think, when you start talking about kids with neurodiversities because they have more challenges, they have more struggles, the way they can perceive their environment, both from a sensory perspective and anxiety perspective, can be so much more so you almost, as a parent, then want to step in more. But I would say that they almost need resilience more than any and they are resilient more, you know, to a degree, more than anyone, because they've had more challenges and struggles. But how, in you know, how, would you advise parents in terms of with neurodiverse kids compared to neurotypical kids?

Dr Maryhan: 18:29

Yeah, I mean, I think with those. It's about being aware which of the Cs are they going to be the most vulnerable with, and one of those is going to be this idea about their confidence because there is going to be.

Dr Maryhan: 18:41

There is this concern that they will have this natural anxiety about trying things and being experiential because of setbacks and so understanding that that's something that we're going to have to scaffold by not getting in the way. So it's really thinking about how can we help build that experience and that confidence through experience and imagine a ladder. The whole idea of a ladder is it gets you from the bottom to the top. So see that as a way of how can we create or at least encourage our child or teen to be in situations that create a certain small amount of stress, so that they can then be able to feel that they can manage, that they can put themselves in that particular situation and experience the success of having tried. It doesn't matter whether they succeed, it's just simply about I have the resources within myself to give this a go. Did it go well? Great, fabulous. Let's try again. Did it go not so well? Great, okay. We've learned. What might we do differently next time? Right now, let's try again. So it's really thinking about that. So the confidence is a really big piece.

Dr Maryhan: 19:54

The connection is also going to be something that they might find particularly difficult because the neurodiversity quite often means that they feel very different from their peers and they find it not necessarily as easy to build their own village and their own collective and their own tribe.

Dr Maryhan: 20:13

So it's helping them look beyond, because what can often happen is in that situation they tend to we know that sort of cognitive confirmation biases.

Dr Maryhan: 20:24

They'll tend to pick out all of the things that confirm their belief that they can't, that there isn't anyone else like them. So they tend to see the busy big groups of collective people. But we want to kind of take the blinkers off so that they can see more broadly, to see the others that are standing on the sidelines in the playground or the others that are then going to the library to withdraw from those particular situations because it's overwhelming. That's where their tribe is, that's where their community is, and help them to take the blinkers off and look beyond there and then have that connection that way. So I think it's just being aware of the areas that our children are more likely to find it difficult because of the neurodiversity, and just it's not about telling them what to do but helping open their eyes to where they may have not looked yet for their tribe yeah, and and and building that in small increments as well, so that they build that success and they can build those experience in in a safe way.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 21:29

Um, you know, uh, slowly. I think that's also really important is slowly, slowly to build those resilient skills.

Dr Maryhan: 21:38

Yes, it's got to be bite size Whenever we're looking at helping and support any children, but particularly with neurodiverse, we have to go bite size and we have to kind of have them on board, breaking it down with us what might seem like a reasonable first step, whilst acknowledging that that is going to feel super scary and it's going to feel huge because it's all about perception. We're trying to get behind the lens with which our neurodiverse child is viewing that particular situation. Particularly if we're not, you know, if we're neurotypical, we can't always step into that real understanding. It's not that we're unempathetic, but we just simply cannot feel that depth and that real acknowledgement of just how overwhelming these situations can feel. I mean, it's literally. They feel like they're in a cage with a lion and we've just told them to sort of attack it with a pencil.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 22:34

So we have to kind of it's having that empathy. Having that it's a fine line, right? It's having that empathy and understanding where they're coming from, but also tickling them out of that a little bit so that they're you're not, you know, wrapping them in cotton wool and protecting them, and there is a tendency to want to do that as well. So it's, you know, it's a fine line that you have to tread as a parent, to not protect too much but not to push too much either.

Dr Maryhan: 22:59

Exactly, and it's all you know. When we talk about these seven C's, it's all predicated on our belief that our child can. When we approach it from the perspective of I have a child who's neurodiverse, they can't do that, that is then predicated much more on diminishing the world that they have rather than they can do anything. Everything is available to them. We might need to take more steps to get there than if it was a neurotypical child in one situation, but in another situation your neurodiverse child may well actually outstrip the neurotypical. So I just think it's about broadening that expectation and just understanding that, in the same ways, every single adult is different, every child is different and every child needs something different to help them step into each one of those seven C's. So it's just bite size, but with that real expectation that there is nothing that should be limiting to them longer term.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 24:06

No, absolutely, and that anything is possible. I've always said that to my daughter. I mean, I never thought she'd ride a bike, but I said we are going to figure out how to ride a bike. And there were times in the years that it took us to learn how to ride a bike that I doubted myself. But you know I couldn't because I had told her we will learn to ride a bike. And I mean, you know, far down the road was getting an adapted bike as well, but we were going to learn how to ride a bike. And you know what? Eventually she learned how't ride a bike, but she can ride a bike. So anything is possible If you break it up, you find the right people, you find the right support, you find the right scaffolding.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 24:41

And now we use that as an example. And I think this is another thing when you have had success in something that you think you couldn't do as a child whether that's talking to a kid in the playground, whether it's putting your hand up in class then you build on that right. So to that confidence C, you can then say well, how did you feel when you did that? It was really scary beforehand. You did it, you got through it, you succeeded or you failed, and you picked yourself up and you survived it. So put that in your mind with the next kind of thing that you're coming up to. So you're building that house of resilience.

Dr Maryhan: 25:12

Completely exactly Because it's come from that competence through learning and trying and failing and picking up again, and then that feeds into your confidence. Yeah, it's huge and you can use that to then help them see the connection between. Well, that felt really scary, that was really difficult, that took us lots of practice. This will be no different, and I don't. I don't think we should ever be sort of nervous about saying to our children that things are going to be difficult and that they will take time and that we will get there because we've got so many things to reference. They're walking, they're talking, they're writing, they're reading, but all things that took a huge amount of effort. It's that, going back to that whole brain is a muscle like any other muscle. The more we flex it, the more we exercise it, the stronger it becomes. So our brain is capable. I truly believe in your testament to that, olivia, with the example with your daughter, is that our brain is capable of anything. We just have to believe and we have to practice.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 26:08

Yeah, and then modeling. I really think that's so important too Modeling as a parent, when you find things challenging, when you're going out of your comfort zone, and verbalizing that to your child so that they can then hear and you know, I'm really nervous about this, wow, I'm going to have to do this, this and this, and oh, you know, and. But I'm, you know, and taking them on that journey with you. And you know, my daughter gets excited about it. She goes go, mommy, you can do it. And then you know, and then we can do. You know, do it in reverse. And I said you know, you're my best cheerleader. She goes you're my best cheerleader too. So you know, you can do it together. Because actually, as adults, we need to be very resilient as well, and it's a skill we need to keep practicing and repeating.

Dr Maryhan: 26:45

Completely and we don't. I think we don't share that with our children, either because we just forget, or we really we sort of think, oh my goodness, if I show that I'm nervous, maybe that will create some nervousness that wasn't there before. But actually I've spoken to so many children it works the exact opposite. If you don't share your nervousness and your concerns, your children then believe that there's something wrong with them Because it's like well, my mummy and my daddy and my mommy do all of these things and they're not scared. There must be something wrong with me, because I'm the only one who does.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 27:22

Yeah, yeah and I mean modeling is, I think, the most underused tool in a parent's toolkit. You know what I mean. Like, put your phone down, don't always be on your phone, scrolling, lead by example. It's the most powerful thing and it's the hardest thing to do, because it's so much easier to just tell them what to do. You know, obey what I say, and I found out as a doctor it doesn't work. I could tell my patients whatever what to do. They don't listen to you. They have to tell me what they can do, and you know you have to model good behavior and yourself. And then they're like sponges. You know they really pick it up. It's funny because I have a rule about phones in my house. You know, at the table or when we're watching TV, I don't want them on the phones. And I had a friend over who had their phone and my daughter went up and just took it right out of their hand and said we don't have phones while we're watching a movie together.

Dr Maryhan: 28:10

Altogether, I was like yes, I love that, but it's so. The thing is, when our children are younger, you know, we are literally like I say this all the time we're like gods. They idolize us, my daddy says. But as they get older, they'll call you out If you're on your phone, when you're, when you've got a household rule about not being on your phone, they will do exactly what your daughter did and they will take it and they'll let you know and they'll pull you up on it. And the powerful thing from modeling is that you don't get caught. So many, particularly with the teen years, get caught in this feeling that we're constantly lecturing at them and actually you don't need to do that. You can just do that powerfully in the behavior that you have each and every day. That's what they're looking at and that's what they will then follow. So it's really crucial that we do that too.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 29:02

Yeah, and you know, back to the topic of resilience and the holistic kind of approach to take with resilience, because it's not just as a parent, it's also at school and you know you have come up with this great concept of it takes well, you didn't come up with it, but it is a great concept to apply to resilience which it takes a village to raise a child and, you know, bringing together those kinds of groups and you have a conference that you're going to be doing April 18th that I wanted to discuss today. I will let you explain it more. But it is about that holistic approach to resilience and bringing all of the people in the village together.

Dr Maryhan: 29:36

Yeah, it's such. I mean that whole saying it takes a village to raise a resilient adult, and I say that because we're always working with the end in mind. And now that saying's been there but now more so than any other time, do we need that village? Because that child who is struggling at school or is having difficulties at school will be the child that's going home and not sleeping at night. The child that is angry at home will be the people pleaser at school.

Dr Maryhan: 30:04

There's such a connection between what we see in our children and our teens in the environments of school, within the wider community, and also at home.

Dr Maryhan: 30:14

It's all connected and I find it quite interesting that we tend to do lots of talks for parents, or we'll do talks for teachers, but we just don't bring the community, the school and the parents together. So it takes a village is about. We're all after the same thing. We all want to raise resilient adults that are then capable, who are then inhabiting these homes that they build for themselves and feeling capable and competent to live their lives as fully as they wish that to be, whatever that might be for them. So why are we not communicating together? Why are we not hearing from experts collectively the same message, at the same time, in the same room, asking the same questions, because when we do that, we don't get this friction. It's not school against parents, parents against schools, parents against community, it's all of us together. And this is a long held dream of mine to do, and I'm so excited that it's actually going to happen and that you're going to be there, olivia.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 31:19

Yes, I'm super excited to be there and it is so needed because it's not them and us. We're all together on the page. We all I mean, honestly, teachers, parents we all want the best for the children in our care, whether they be our children or whether they be children that we're having a classroom and to be there getting those same messages, being able to discuss stuff. I imagine it's going to be magical and that it's going to be a unification and it needs to be done and it needs to spread like a virus around not just England but the world that we start seeing as an us versus them and us type situation. So I'm super excited.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 31:55

I'm going to be talking about resilience and ADHD in a workshop and it's going to be not just about the kids but also about parents and our resilience within that neurodiversity and how we need to shift our thinking, to shift how our children think. So I'm going to come up with I have 10 good strategies that they can use at home to actually implement, and it crosses all neurodiversities. I'll be using examples of ADHD, but it crosses all neurodiversities. And then you also have another guest who's been on this podcast, lucinda Miller, who's been extremely popular. She does ADHD and nutrition. She's going to be there, which is going to be amazing. I haven't met her in person yet, so I'm looking forward to that in person yet.

Dr Maryhan: 32:39

So I'm looking forward to that. She is amazing, and what's so amazing is the focus is very much on making it practical, you know having things. The idea of the conference really is that we're not just hearing from these amazing experts, we're hearing how can we practically go home whether that's a parent, whether that's a teacher, whether that's a nanny, whether that's a midwife. It's sort of professional development for all, as well as for parents. We can go home and actually implement these things in a really super practical way. And that's what I'm loving about all of the guests that are coming they're coming with real life, practical things that we can all go off, go home, go to school in our clinics and start using immediately.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 33:23

Yeah, and I'm really excited for you know the discussion, you know and hearing the different points of views and the different challenges, different viewpoints, I think you know bringing together all those mindsets is going to be really powerful and interesting.

Dr Maryhan: 33:32

Yeah, yeah, I'm so looking forward to it and we've actually got as well, because I think our first keynote to be speaking is coming from the world of work. It's like we're talking very much from an education perspective and at home, but this is somebody who's going to be talking with the end in mind what does resilience actually look like in the workplace? I could tell you now she's not going to be talking about resilience in the workplace being a whole string of qualifications that you bring with you to employment. That is not what it is, and if we need to keep that end in mind because that's fundamentally what we want to equip our children with- yeah, absolutely.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 34:11

I mean, well, it's the biggest skill you probably need in Absolutely how you bounce and how you. Yeah, absolutely, I completely agree. So I will have the details of how all the listeners can actually access the conference in the podcast notes and I'll also have them on my website. Are there, you know, as we, as we wrap this up, dr Marianne, is there any like three tips you could give our listeners, parents and educators alike, in terms of resilience? I know we did the C's, but three top tips from you in terms of resilience.

Dr Maryhan: 34:49

So I would say self-care is crucial because that is, if we're going to model resilience, we have to make sure that we are taking care of ourselves so that we can give ourselves the space in order to demonstrate it. So that may well be self-care around our boundaries, so that we don't overcommit. It may be self-care around a reflective practice, so that we can continually check in and ask ourselves how am I modeling resilience? So that would be my top first tip is that this isn't a luxury, it's a necessity. When it comes to whether you're an educator or whether you're a parent, that self-care is crucial.

Dr Maryhan: 35:27

The second one I would say is about finding your tribe and being unapologetically you.

Dr Maryhan: 35:33

I think as parents and also as educators, we always want to present our best self, and I don't think we always are able to be as open as we could and should be about the challenges we might be facing about raising resilient adults.

Dr Maryhan: 35:46

So finding our tribe that is helpful for us doesn't mean ditching your other friends. We've all got friends and people who are our tribes for different reasons and different seasons, but when it comes to raising resilient children, we really need our very own special tribe and particularly if you are raising neurodiverse children, you need to have a tribe that you can be 100% unapologetic about you, how you're feeling and the challenges that you're facing, raising resilient adults that way. So that would be my number two, and I think the third one is about staying flexible and adaptive with this, whilst holding unwavering faith. Sometimes it's going to feel like you've nailed this resilience thing and you've got it, and yeah, I know what it takes, and then they'll reach a certain stage of their development and they'll throw you a whole curve ball and you'll think, okay, I haven't got any of this, I've got to start again. So being prepared to be flexible and adaptive, I think, is a really crucial one too.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 36:46

I think that's a really good one because you know, it's always when you're in that moment of oh I've got this, I've really nailed it when your children just come out with a big surprise, and that's where your resilience is tested, definitely. I think those are three really good tips and I'm so looking forward to joining you in person on April 18th and I hope lots of listeners also sign up and come and join us. There's lots of parking there. It's from 9.30 to 4.30. People can drop in and out as they want, but it's a great opportunity. It's in Farnborough, which I think is, you know, hopefully accessible to quite a few of my listeners, according to my statistics. So hopefully we will get some of the parents from the Send Parenting podcast to come and listen and learn.

Dr Maryhan: 37:35

Yeah, it's super accessible by train and by road. And we will have food There'll be lunch, as well as lots of lovely biscuits and teas and coffees and things, so it'll be just a great day. We've got exhibitors that are going to be there as well, talking about products and services that may also be really helpful, as well as the speakers, and they're all active workshops, so it'll be proper hands-on. So, yeah, we'll be really excited to meet you, olivia, in person, and your listeners too.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 38:04

Excellent. Well, thank you, Dr Marianne. It's been a pleasure having you again on the Send Parenting podcast.

Dr Maryhan: 38:09

Oh, thank you so much for having me.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 38:12

Thank you for listening. Send Parenting Tribe. Please look in the show notes of the podcast or on our website, sendparentingcom, to find the link for the it Takes a Village conference which will be held on April 18th in Farnborough Hills School. It starts at 9.30 and finishes at 4.30, and you can choose how long you want to stay. It's designed for parents, professionals who want to hear from experts on how best to raise resilientults. The tickets are 87 pounds for non-professionals and 97 pounds for professionals. It should be a great way to learn from other experts and network with other parents.

Dr Olivia Kessel: 38:54

I know Lucinda Miller is going to be there and I know from all of the downloads we've had that hers is one of the most popular podcasts. It was episode 38, which looked at ADHD and nutrition. I think she's coming in the morning, so I'd really highly recommend you all going there. I, of course, am also going to be there so you can meet me and put a face to a name, although you've probably seen me on social media, but hopefully you might join my workshop as well, looking at resilience in ADHD and neurodiversity. Wishing you and your family a resilient week ahead.