.png)
SEND Parenting Podcast
Welcome to the Send Parenting Podcast. I'm your neurodiverse host, Dr Olivia Kessel, and, more importantly, I am a mother to my wonderfully neurodivergent daughter, Alexandra, who really inspired this podcast.
As a veteran in navigating the world of neurodiversity, I have uncovered a wealth of misinformation, alongside many answers and solutions that were never taught to me in medical school or in any of the parenting handbooks.
Each week on this podcast, I will be bringing the experts to your ears to empower you on your parenting crusade.
SEND Parenting Podcast
EOTAS Casestudies with Joanna Gibbs, Founder of Sensational Tutors
We offer a deep dive into the innovative EOTAS framework, highlighting its vital role in reshaping education for neurodiverse children. The episode sheds light on practical insights gathering from real success stories shared by Joanna Gibbs of Sensational Tutors, equipping parents with actionable strategies.
• Exploring the significance of the EHCP in tailoring educational needs
• Insights into real-life success stories transforming educational experiences
• Understanding the diverse needs of neurodiverse children
• The role of personalized education in fostering engagement and confidence
• Connecting with community support to navigate educational challenges
Join our community for additional support and insights. We share experiences and advice to help each other along this journey.
www.sendparenting.com
Welcome to the Send Parenting Podcast. I'm your neurodiverse host, dr Olivia Kessel, and, more importantly, I'm mother to my wonderfully neurodivergent daughter, alexandra, who really inspired this podcast. As a veteran in navigating the world of neurodiversity in a UK education system, I've uncovered a wealth of misinformation, alongside many answers and solutions that were never taught to me in medical school or in any of the parenting handbooks. Each week on this podcast, I will be bringing the experts to your ears to empower you on your parenting crusade. If you're looking for a safe space to connect with other parents navigating their neurodiverse journey, our private WhatsApp community offers support, insights and real conversations with like-minded parents who truly understand. Join the conversation today. You can find the link in the show notes.
Speaker 1:In our last episode, we unpacked the legal side of IOTAS education otherwise than at school. But what does IOTAS actually look like in practice? How can it truly support a child who's struggling so much, even going to a traditional school? Today, I'm going to be joined by Joanna Gibbs, founder of Sensational Tutors, to bring this to life. Joanna and her team work closely with families to create tailored learning experiences that re-engage children, helping them rediscover confidence and joy in learning outside of the conventional classroom. She will share real stories of how bespoke education packages can transform a child's journey, moving beyond just academics to focus on their total well-being and their growth.
Speaker 1:If you're wondering what is possible with IITAS, this is an episode for you. Let's dive in. So welcome, joanna. It is such a pleasure to have you on the Send Parenting podcast. Last week, we had two legal experts who really got into the nitty-gritty of the legalities of securing an IATAS, which is education other than at school, and today, though, we're going to explore with you, in lots of different ways, really bringing IATAS packages to real life. But before we start on our main topic what led you to found Sensational Tutors?
Speaker 2:Hi Olivia, thank you so much. So I have an undergraduate degree in linguistics and phonetics and I actually wanted to become a speech and language therapist. I've always wanted to help families and help children. For me, communication is everything. Communication supports emotional development, supports behavior, just supports well-being and friendships and socialization. Language has always been something that I have been interested in.
Speaker 2:I started then working for the NHS, for the Challenging Behavioural Learning Disability team. I absolutely loved it there. That also created an environment whereby I knew that I wanted to make a difference for families. I loved my job so much with the NHS that I wanted to save the world. I moved to India, worked in a slum school in in India there, came back to the UK, needed a job, worked as an intern at the American School of London. In the end I was headhunted to found a school in South Korea, so I was there for two years. Then I was head of learning support in South Korea, moved so I was there for two years. Then I was head of learning support in South Korea, moved to Australia, worked in an autism school in Australia, then moved to Jakarta.
Speaker 1:You bring the whole worldwide of experience in terms of education and learning support. That's fantastic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's exactly the point. So I'm trained in the IB, in International Baccalaureate Curriculum which is very child focused, it's very inspiring, it's based on topics and it's based on understanding the children qualification. My qualification at university linguistics and phonetics and I came back to the UK, having traveled and opened international schools. I came back to UK and I experienced what the national curriculum is and that's really that really inspired me to make a difference and to create something that I believed would be better for children, so that it was more student-led, it was listening to the child's interests.
Speaker 2:Um, because I was working in school for a couple of years here and I just felt like the teaching of the national curriculum, the national curriculum in itself, is just not fit for purpose. It's not inspiring, not engaging, and essentially, you know what has happened now is that we have an issue. We have a massive crisis in the school system, not even with SENS, just in general general crisis in education. But I also equally, at the same time, felt like there would be other teachers who felt the same, that that wanted to make a difference, that wanted to create a curriculum and to be able to teach again, teach to make sure that children really love learning. Wow.
Speaker 1:And that's you know. It sounds so simple. Why wouldn't you want that? And I would say, everyone in education probably does say that, but the reality falls way short of that. So I think what inspiring words and what a great way to take what you're thinking and actually make it into a in education probably does say that, but the reality falls way short of that. So I think what inspiring words and what a great way to take what you're thinking and actually make it into a reality. So how does Sensational Tutors actually support Yotas working in real life?
Speaker 2:So essentially, how it works is that a parent will reach out to us, so a parent can be at several different points in their journey when it comes to your test, some parents don't have any ehgp yet, which makes things a lot more challenging, and then we do suggest, or essentially request, that the parent um does get that ehgp. I mean, that's a completely different situation. That's a battle in itself and a fight, unfortunately, um, but what we do is to develop an understanding of the personal situation, but also knowing what the background is for that child, because every child's situation is different and every family's situation is different and every family's aspirations for their child is different as well. So we will gather a lot of information about that journey.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, a significant number of the children that we support have experienced school-based trauma, and therefore an EOTAS package is the best solution for them. In some cases, those children have experienced or attended, or attempted to attend, a number of different schools. If not, there might not be a specialist school or a school placement available for that child to meet needs, and obviously a child is entitled to education, and so therefore, the parents approach us or the local authorities approach us and request a EOTAS package. We work directly with a lady called Lizzie. She actually in herself. She used to work for the local authority. She knows Yotas packages. She provides free support and advice for parents who are looking for Yotas packages so that she can help them on that journey.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic. So it's kind of filling that gap, either where a school a child can no longer function in school because of the trauma, or a child can't find an independent school that can meet their needs because there aren't enough of them and places are very limited. So what does it look like in real life? You said it sounds like really personalized. What kind of different educational setups can parents really create, and how do you work with them to create those setups?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I just kind of like to backtrack a little bit, because, obviously, eotas is an option, and I fundamentally believe it's a brilliant option if it's done right with the right professionals, but there are other opportunities and other options for parents to think about. So a reduced timetable is an option as well, that some points can be considered. So, for example, if the child is not attending school, a reduced timetable could be considered if that will help the child to integrate in the school. Um, depends on the school. It really depends on the situation.
Speaker 2:There's also elective home education, which I'd like to mention because it's very different than a YOTAS packages. So a YOTAS is, fundamentally, that the local authority will pay for it somehow, either through a personal budget or being commissioned directly. So the difference there personal budget is when the local authority provides an amount of money to the parent. The parent, therefore, is in control of that money, and the money can be utilized in accordance to the parent's wishes. Um, it gives the parents control over who they accept into their family home. Fundamentally, I believe that is the best case scenario. The caveat with that, though, is that there is paperwork involved, so it depends on the parents, it depends on the carer, because these parents and carers have a lot of work to do to support their child on an individual basis anyway, and having some of this paperwork to do in addition to this, can be it's accounting right.
Speaker 1:They really have to, they have to, they have to be account for all of the pennies that have been spent and yeah. So there's a degree of yeah, bookkeeping, I guess would be a way of putting it.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean there are parents that have a personal assistant to deal with that and they have funding through that side of things if they have a disability allowance, for example.
Speaker 2:But you know there are opportunities for parents to receive funding and support in different areas, but there are lots of different angles. When it comes to elective home education, that is essentially that the parents fund that themselves. Going back to YOTAS and how that can be funded, the other way that can be funded is commissioning directly from the local authority. So, for example, sensational tutors, we either get funded by the local authority, as in the local authority pays us, or when it comes to that personal budget, it's the parent pays us, but the parent receives the money from the local authority. That makes sense. The other thing to note is every local authority is very different and I think that's really key. It can become quite frustrating, I have to say, as a provider, to understand how every local authority operates and when it comes to the advice that we provide parents, it's not going to be uniform because every local authority makes their own decisions around this.
Speaker 1:Clear as mud. It's confusing enough without having all that confusion as well. And then if you move, it's, you know it, just it's. But you've explained that very clearly in terms of how the funding mechanisms can work. Um, and that's great to clarify that before we talk about how you know how and what you can. You can put together, um, and yeah, that differentiation between choosing to to homeschool your children or kind of running out of options, with being able to send your kid to school. That's kind of where it differs a bit. It sounds like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I think you know there are parents that we speak to and a lot of the parents well, I say a lot, the majority, pretty much every parent is incredibly desperate. Every parent wants the right thing, the best thing for their child. And there are parents that we've spoken to in the past and they just pull their child out of school, which is an option, you know, when their child is in significant need mental health needs, et cetera, et cetera that is an option. But it just makes it a little bit more challenging then when they are asking for funding support from the local authority, when they've already made that decision to home to home educate, to electively home educate- yeah, it's a tricky situation.
Speaker 1:You're, you're against the fire, right, and your child's suffering. So I know a lot of my listeners and a lot of the people in the community have shared stories where you know you're really you're, you're stuck up against a wall, really. But yeah, um, it's a, it's a difficult, it's a difficult place for a parent to be in. And then there's some parents that have always decided that they're going to homeschool and you know that's, that's been the decision that they've they've made. I uh, we had someone on a couple of weeks ago. You know that's was the decision she made and that's, you know that's that, that's your decision. But when you're faced with your child's well-being and they don't want to go to school and their anxiety is going up and their mental health is suffering, you're going to do what's best for your child, really.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and yeah, it's a hard, hard, hard, hard path to navigate. But once they've gotten through that, and either they are being funded by the Once they've gotten to that and either they have are being funded by the, you're being once they've they've gotten to that point where they have the, the, the IOTAS funding. Um, how do you create this? Uh, education, it sounds like a very personalized education for children.
Speaker 2:I absolutely love IOTAS packages, but they have to be done right, with the right professional. I mean, it ticks my box in terms of it being child led, listening to the child's hobbies and their interests, and there is the opportunity there to create a really engaging curriculum. The thing is, though, is that it's all bound by the EHCP, so it's really providing the evidence in the EHCP, speaking to the professionals, speaking to the educational psychologists, and creating an EHEP. That is really specific because obviously it's a legal, binding document, so we need to be able to justify the needs and justify the provision, but that all has to be dictated and put into that EHEP.
Speaker 1:And does it follow a national? Curriculum as well, no, it's totally outside of that, and that's the really exciting bit. Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's freedom, absolutely, it really doesn't need to. Yes, it needs to tick boxes, but it needs to tick the boxes of the EHCP, not the national curriculum boxes.
Speaker 1:Okay, wow, so that opens up a lot more potential for learning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we need to be really cautious. Not even cautious, we need to be, I guess, excited by the fact that learning can take place in any situation, for example, cooking. Cooking is measurement, it's time it's right reading instructions and recipes. It's it's writing recipes. There's so much involved in cooking and that's just one example.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely so. You know, in terms of creating a successful kind of learning, it is very individualized. Is there a model that you follow or like you know how does it work? You know it's.
Speaker 2:I would. I don't know if it's. You know, unfortunately there isn't one model for every child, which I think is good. Yeah, it makes things more challenging, of course, that there isn't a blueprint, but there isn't a blueprint for every child, and you know, we raise our children differently. I think it's very much about understanding that child, but I fundamentally believe in listening to that child and listening to what that child wants. Fundamentally believe in listening to that child and listening to what that child wants. We need to be mindful of the fact that, unfortunately, these children have experienced trauma, possibly at school. They haven't developed strong relationships with adults. Therefore, they have experienced trauma and they haven't been listened to by these, let's say, teachers or these individuals in the school environment. And this is an opportunity to listen to our children and create a program for them so that they feel inspired, but they're also in control of this. A number of the young people that we support have PDA, and this is just-.
Speaker 1:And just to clarify PDA for my listeners who might not know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Pathological demand avoidance, which is it's under the remit of autism, but it's based very much on anxiety. Yeah, absolutely, and that can lead to their burnout as well, because school does not. They're not even able to come outside of out of their bedroom they are. Their anxiety is so great that they are just completely disengaged in anything, let alone education.
Speaker 1:So let's say you have a child like that, because I know a lot of my listeners will what is your first step? And how do you engage them? And you know, let's say they have a good EHCP. They have everything you know written down in black and white. The legal document has been drafted, it's been approved, woohoo. And now you've got a child who does not want to come out of their room and is really very suspicious. You know of the whole situation. How do you work? Can you, you know, not using names or anything, but like some case studies, kind of bring it to life for us?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is so much about the relationship, it's so much about being developing that trusting relationship and it's so much, therefore, about finding the right professionals, the professionals that are committed to breaking down those barriers and won't give up, because we have parents here who, rightly, are not going to be giving up for children and not listening to their child's needs. We need the professionals to also step up and be committed to making sure that they understand the situation and are there and stick by these children. It's going to be a gradual process. Children, it's going to be a gradual process. You know, test packages sometimes get signed off for 25 hours a week and, yes, we want to make sure that they're signed off for 25 hours a week because that's what we're aiming to get to.
Speaker 2:It doesn't mean that we're going to be providing 25 hours a week. You know, in the first week we need to believe that, with the right support, we can get to that amount of hours or even greater than that, because every child is entitled to full-time education. We need to make sure that we have high expectations for our children and we can get there, but it all depends on finding that right person with whom the child trusts, but obviously, with whom the parent trusts as well, and I think it's really important to make sure that whoever walks through that door, be it, you know, a tutor commissioned by the local authority, what I always suggest to parents is the parents will. The parents know their child better than anybody, and if the parent doesn't think that that is the right match, be it therapist, be it tutor, that parent should approach local authority or the person, the agency, and and speak and raise that issue and see if there's something that can be done about that. Yeah, and it's, it's.
Speaker 1:You know kids don't lie. Do you know what I mean? And they get senses about people. I know I've struggled with my daughter finding the right match it's, it's. It's not easy to find that right match, especially when they've been through a system which has broken all of their trust.
Speaker 2:But I would say, when the right match has been made, it's absolutely amazing. You know the conversation I have with parents and I say we should write a quote for 25 hours and they say, oh my, you know, my child will never engage 25 hours. And lo and behold, when we get it right, that parent, the the joy of that parent, but also the joy of that child is just incredible. You know, the parent just sees new opportunities for that child and the reassurance and just the lessening of the anxiety for that parent is just incredible.
Speaker 1:Opening up their world again.
Speaker 2:It is yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And how do they work together, Like how do you collaborate?
Speaker 2:everybody, in terms of the parents and the tutors.
Speaker 1:The tutors, the therapists. How does it all collaborate together?
Speaker 2:So there are local authorities and more and more local authorities are considering the idea of an EOTAS coordinator.
Speaker 2:Considering the idea of an EOTAS coordinator Because, if we think about an EOTAS package, there can be therapists in place, there could be OTs, salts, specialist tutors, equine therapists there's a lot of individuals that can be put in place, depending, obviously, on the needs of the young person.
Speaker 2:So more and more local authorities are approaching us for EOTAS coordinators. Communication is absolutely everything and what that coordinator will do is to make sure that the strategies are consistent. So, for example, if a speech and language therapist or assault is in place, obviously communication happens in every session, be it during a tutoring session or during OT, so that person will make sure that those strategies are uniform and integrated into other sessions as well. Likewise, if there's an OT in place there, the child's going to be in a sensory or a different sensory environment if they're in the family home or in, you know, in a library. But there are opportunities to create or to integrate some of the sensory therapeutic yeah, some of the sensory side of things into every session that the child is in as well, which makes so much sense because then you have it coming, it's repeated and it's actually aligned and integrated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And in terms of you know, it sounds like it's very personalized. But how does like a day or a week look like, or what is ideal? It sounds like it builds up, but how is it just completely personalized?
Speaker 2:It is. It can be. It can be depending again on the local authority. There are local authorities that don't agree to equine therapy, for example. There are local authorities, though, that will agree to golf lessons. So it really depends on their vision of what a year task packages look like.
Speaker 2:But what I would say to parents is listen to your child and create a timetable for them. You know, right Monday to Friday on a notepad, in amount of hours per week, and I probably think about the maximum amount of hours. I probably go with 25 hours a week. Now, that sounds a lot of hours, but we need to be mindful of the fact that education absolutely doesn't need to be and from my point of view, shouldn't be sitting at a desk, you know, and reciting things. It should be engaging, it should be active and it should be fun. So five hours a day of doing things that are engaging and fun for a child is not too bad, but I would think about where you'd like your child to get to. Really do have high expectations of them. You know, not significantly high. We need to make it achievable as well, but the most important is to make sure it's engaging for that child as well and therefore it will be successful.
Speaker 1:And then, I imagine, with the annual review, you'll go over the kind of metrics and the measurable outcomes in terms of what you wanted to achieve and then what has been achieved.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. The EHCP, as we've said, is incredibly important. Annual review, if not, then an emergency review as well, can be considered if things aren't working out.
Speaker 1:And that's if you needed to change kind of the provision or what you were doing, if you needed to change kind of the provision or what you were doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. Essentially, what happens very often is, for example, if a young person is in a school at the moment, then the EHEP is not going to be fit for purpose because the EHEP is going to be mentioning the school environment, you know, peers, et cetera, et cetera. So what would have to happen then is the EHEP gets changed in accordance with what the parent wants for the EOTAS package and then that new EHEP is used to create the EOTAS package.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. What would you say are some of the common? Like? I guess that might be one of the common challenges. What are the common challenges that parents face in terms of finding the right professionals, engaging their child and then also dealing with social isolation? So you know cause it's? It's almost like you're becoming an educator yourself, or you know what I mean. Like this is all being offloaded from parents and now you're kind of taking responsibility for it.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it's not easy, I have to say as much as there is an amazing opportunity for you, as a parent, to create something for your child, there is so much available for you as well. It's hard to know where to start. I would certainly be speaking to other parents like. Your WhatsApp group, which we discussed is just brilliant. The parents are interacting, so helpful just brilliant.
Speaker 2:The parents are are interacting on the world. Yeah, and it's from my point of view, it's speaking to parents, um, for their advice and for their suggestions, because they've been there. There isn't a manual, you know, around e8, around eos packages. There isn't, um a timetable, there isn't a definite structure for you to to follow. But I think, you know, we need to think about that as a positive thing as well, because those structures were in place in the school and, unfortunately, the school environment didn't work. So now we have the, you know, we have the opposite um, but it does mean, therefore, that the parents are unfortunately going to need to take some time and you'll never get it right. It is going to be trial and error, but I would say that if you're starting to see those glimmers of hope, the smiles that are coming back on your child's face, that is what you're looking out for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean there's no real handbook for parenting really that works, you know it's, it's trial and error. So I, you know, and I I agree with you, like, and I I've noticed in the community too, like when one parent says, well, this is what I'm experiencing with my child, and then another parent says, oh, that's exactly what my child's gone through, this is what we've tried. You know, it gives you indicators of things that you can do, that other people have tried that might have worked, and it really is a trial and error thing and finding what's right for your child, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and it takes a significant amount of time and we need to be aware of the fact that these amazing families, you know they are doing the absolute best for their child when they're, when these children have send, and that is time consuming itself, let alone trying to find the best providers, because we need the best for these children, absolutely, we only want the best of these children. Um, it's time consuming and it, and unfortunately, a number of the families that we work with, one of the parents or one of the carers isn't working anymore because of the amount of time that it takes to find the right providers or, unfortunately, to deal with the local authorities.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's another full-time job, basically. And then raising a neurodiverse child is. You know, I haven't raised a neurotypical child, so I can't say, but it seems to be easier on the other side. I might be wrong, but you know, I haven't raised a neurotypical child so I can't say, but it seems to be easier on the other side. I might be wrong, but you know it's also interesting, like with my daughter as well.
Speaker 1:It's when you're trying new things and they don't like it, or or you know, they're not engaged, when when you say, okay, let's try something new, or when we keep trying. And I'll use my daughter as an example, because we joined the chicken shed, which was on our podcast, a couple of weeks ago and we'd been to two sessions and she did not want to go back. She's like, mommy, I hate it, I don't want to go. She was crying in the car and I'm like you know what? It's good to try something and we can stop it, but I don't think you've given it a good enough try yet and I said so, could we just give it one more try? And she sat with me, you know, I got her into the cafe area and she's like all right, mommy, she goes. If I go today and I don't like it, I don't want to hear anything else. I'm never going back again. If I go in there, I like it, I'm not going to complain for the rest of the time.
Speaker 1:She came out and break. Her face was lit up. They'd started doing acting. She had a script. It was like the sun had come out and I'd been sitting there in the cafe going, oh my God, should I have sent her in there? Was I wrong? You know, am I pushing her too hard? You know so it's a minefield, I would imagine, for parents and that's just like one little thing. That's an extracurricular activity, you know, trying to know that right, that just right challenge of what's. You know how to navigate that. Do you have any tips?
Speaker 2:What I was just thinking and listening to you in terms of how you didn't give up, and I just think it's the same in terms of all the professionals around the families. They shouldn't give up either, they. You know the thing is about what we do myself as a teacher now is the reward of when you are able to support that family is so significant that makes everything worth it, and you know even how. You just mentioned that in this situation with chicken shed and, and the positive outcome is just fantastic. You know, now you have a happy daughter because you didn't give up, and I think it's the same with parents.
Speaker 1:And she learned not to give up too. That's why I said to her I said you know what I said it's absolutely fine. And Eliza Fricker said it on the podcast too. She said you know it's fine to try and quit. We don't let our kids quit things. You know we're like no, you have to stay in gymnastics. I've paid for the outfit, this that you know, so it's okay. I said it's absolutely fine, but you have to give it enough of a chance to actually make an informed decision. You know, and that's the, that's the tricky, I think, uh, and especially with kids who've been traumatized by school and who are really coming from a deficit they're not, they're not, um, they're not in a good place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I just love the idea that you will be able to use that example going forwards for her in different situations.
Speaker 1:now you know, remember that situation in chicken shed and hopefully that will break down some further barriers for her yeah, we'd use that with biking too, because she struggled really to bike and I'm like you know, you never thought you'd do it and I said we're, it took us three years, but she can ride a bike now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, exactly, and we need to stand by our children and support them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think you know school kind of can make you feel like your child can't do these things or that they're not good enough and they are they just they need to get to it in a different way sometimes, and it needs to be. And that's what's so beautiful about IATAS packages is you can really create something that is specific for your child and that will, you know, incite their hyper focus area or, you know, have all the other learning with something that they're super interested in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I think you know, going back to the school environment, there are obviously tick boxes there. There are, you know, the pen license, for example. If you're not good enough at using a pencil, you're not going to be allowed to use a pen. It's all really, really negative and I just think removing some of that pressure is really positive so that these children can really create positive outcomes for themselves.
Speaker 1:And it's so degrading if everyone else is using a pen and you have to use a pencil. Yeah, yeah, it's really undermining. I would argue, let's use a computer, but anyway, true, my daughter's a wizard dictation now, better than me, actually. So I had some questions from the SEND Parenting community too that I kind of wanted to go over. Um, I don't know if, if there's any real Kate life case studies that you we've mentioned some throughout, but um, I wanted to. Actually, before we get to the questions, you had mentioned a farm and a farming situation, and I just think that's worth highlighting because it just shows how different it can be.
Speaker 2:Yes, so we have a young boy. He's only five years old, he loves dinosaurs. He's loved dinosaurs for a number of years now and that's obviously his special interest. He's PDA and autistic, and one of my tutors, as a nice coincidence, owns a farm and he was not able to engage in any environment whatsoever, whatsoever. They attended libraries, they attended um other environments, you know, even even playgrounds, and what now has happened is that the local authority have agreed for the boy to attend the tutor's farm, and so what she does is she creates treasure hunts with dinosaurs, and so they go on these learning journeys, walking through the farm, collecting these dinosaurs, talking about the dinosaurs, but also learning as they're walking through the farm. Um, you know, talking about the weather, for example, talking about the stones I mean, he's only five, so they are learning about numbers, they're learning about shapes as they are walking, having going through this walking learning journey, that's lovely, and so he's.
Speaker 1:he's learning to love learning.
Speaker 2:And that's what it's about Absolutely. And the interesting thing is, if we do consider the national curriculum because I'm not saying, you know, we should completely get rid of it there are obviously learning objectives in the national curriculum, be it counting, that are really important, but those can be taught in different ways. For example, you know, counting these dinosaurs as you're counting the stones, or looking at numbers, yeah, making it interesting really.
Speaker 1:So some of the questions that we had, you know, and I think you'll be very well placed to answer this one how can I find qualified tutors that understand neurodiverse children? I think, specifically, you know, and and you know, I imagine, with tutors, you know there's some who might be better at ADHD. There might be some that are better. Is that so some that are better at autism, some that are, you know?
Speaker 2:yeah, so, first of all, it's about breaking down qualified tutors, because there isn't a qualification for tutors, so there are qualified teachers and then there's tutors. So if you're looking for the best of the best, I would also go. I would always go for a qualified teacher, because they do know they've been taught how to teach, which is looking for um. But then, on top of that, you'd be looking for somebody who has a lot of experience working with neurodiverse children. And you're right, different teachers are trained in different ways and different teachers have different interests. So, for example, sensational tutors. We have tutors who are trained in different ways and different teachers have different interests. So, for example, sensational tutors. We have tutors who are trained in level five and level seven dyslexia, so they will be dyslexia specialists. We have those that are trained in PDA.
Speaker 2:What we do as a company is we understand the child's needs. We go through a consultation with the family, which is all free, ask for a booking form, etc. The family, which is all free, ask for a booking form, etc. But on the other side, we have a very good understanding of the tutors or the qualified teachers that we work with and we provide a very secure matching service around what the parents are looking for and then what the specialist teachers that we work with, what they're also looking for. The primary focus is really making sure that it is as successful as possible, that both sides are happy. And even when we are going through the matching service, I do say to the parents you know, this is an opportunity for you to interview the teacher, but likewise the teacher is interviewing you because we need to make sure that everybody is happy in this situation and therefore, if they are, then the child is going to be happy and going to flourish.
Speaker 1:Makes sense. It's a two-way street. It's not one way, it's two-way, and that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, and then I suppose if there are issues with the tutor, then you can look to on either side the tutor with the child or the child with the tutor. That then, does that happen often or not often?
Speaker 2:It really child or the tutor? That then? Does that happen often or not often? It really doesn't happen? No, um, no, I mean, I established the company eight years ago. I can't really remember any of any time it's it's happened. But if it, uh, if it hasn't, and when it has, no doubt we would have really intervened and understood what's what's happened. And it may be that the child just isn't ready to be with a, with a teacher, uh, with a tutor, or likewise, the relationship just hasn't been well established because it's so much about personality and as much as yes, okay, that tutor is a PDA specialist and the child has PDA. If that relationship isn't established, the personality match isn't there, then it's not going to be successful. So that's, you know, adjusting things at that point.
Speaker 1:That makes sense and that brings up another key point.
Speaker 2:There is what if the child refuses to engage? You know, yeah, so what we'd always suggest is consider shorter sessions, but making sure that that teacher doesn't give up, like we mentioned before, as much as, yes, the child might not be engaging at this point, like your example with chicken shed may well get there, and it's also recognizing the situation, the experience that the child's had. If they haven't been engaging in school, been a school refuser, school avoider, haven't established a working, positive, working relationship with an adult, they're not going to engage at this point and it's about. It's about the small steps and putting things in place, but understanding the child, but also allowing the child to lead the sessions, um, and creating a, an environment for themselves and a program for themselves. Listening to that child is so important and it's so exciting for yourself as a parent to get it right, but also for the teacher to get it right from listening to the child.
Speaker 1:So it sounds like it's quite slow and might not be at first. It's just building that. Trust is really the key ingredient. Trust is everything.
Speaker 2:Trust is everything, but not only for the child but also for that parent, because they may, as a parent they may not have experienced positive relationships with local authorities in schools as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and another question I think this is one that's definitely crossed my mind too is you know we worry about our children. You know, getting independent life skills, being able to, you know, stand on their own two feet when they grow up. How how can they parents ensure that? With a NEATAS package, I mean, I guess you can't ensure it anyway, but you know what. What kind of confidence can you give parents?
Speaker 2:Well, it's interesting that you said confidence, because I think, when it comes to life skills and independence, it starts from that confidence. It starts from ensuring that your child is increasing in their confidence and self-esteem and once we've got to that point, the life skills and independence will just follow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's well put. The final question is are there ever situations where the funding that the local authority gives isn't enough to meet what you want to give your child? Do parents supplement the funding.
Speaker 2:They do, yeah, in some cases they do, but very often the parent will go back to the local authority and request an increase in the funding. So, for example, there are situations whereby the family has been working with the provider. The provider unfortunately hasn't been able to meet needs or find somebody who has the skills and experience to meet needs. They may be a cheaper provider um, for example, sensational tutors. If we are able to find somebody to meet needs and we can provide evidence of that, then the local authority will normally increase the amount. What parents have done and frequently do, is that they will approach us, they will find a tutor through us, they will pay for maybe two sessions, ensure that that individual tutor could be, ideally is the right match for their family, and then approach the local authority and ask the local authority to fund the session.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense, so that they're putting forth an offer or a request that they are sure works well for their family and their child.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that they have evidence that it will be successful. Because the local authorities, yes, they can be challenging to work with, but fundamentally they do want and I hope, I do believe that they do want the best for their families as well. And if there is a provider that can meet those needs, the needs of the eh, of the ehep, which is a legal, binding document, then I'm hopeful that the local authorities will agree to it that's brilliant.
Speaker 1:That's uh. Thank you so much, joanna, for your uh description today. It's been super, super helpful and I think it'll be really helpful for all my listeners as well. Are there three top tips that you would like to leave our listeners with on this subject?
Speaker 2:Yeah, number one, it's the EHCP. Getting the EHCP right is really, really, really important, because that's going to form the basis of everything, and we know how challenging it is to get in the HEP. But it is about taking your time and speaking to other parents about their experience, perhaps speaking to or having some legal advice around that as well, but it's absolutely everything. That's where you need to start.
Speaker 1:I totally agree. And it's a legally binding document which is incredibly powerful. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And your second tip uh.
Speaker 2:Second tip would be do your research and with that comes take your time, unfortunately, um, because time is obviously precious. I would also take your time, unfortunately, because time is obviously precious. I would also take your time speaking to parents groups, like obviously, the WhatsApp group that you have, and listening to other parents experiences and learning from them, but also making sure that you realize you're not going to get it right all the time. We'll get there, you know, small steps and being patient with yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know if that was tip number three or if you have a third tip um, kind of all bound into one.
Speaker 2:My third tip would be to recognize that nobody knows a child more than you do and stand by them. Um, and recognize the fight is going to be difficult. Be Be patient with yourself, but also look after yourself. Look after your own mental health and it's easier said than done, I appreciate that. But be mindful of where you want to get to and hopefully that will support you in your fight.
Speaker 1:It's so true because it's it's it's a long fight and it's a long journey. I mean, you know, and it's a it's, it's a long journey with your child too. So you need that stamina and if you don't take care of yourself, you're going to burn out and you're going to have your own health and mental well-being issues which then leave you at a deficit for your child. So that's really key, I think as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I just think it's being mindful that at some point you might just have to play the game. You know you'll get there If you know where you want to get to. It is about playing that game, the local authority game, you know, agreeing to things but being mindful of what you want to achieve and the best and getting to the best possible outcomes for your child.
Speaker 1:It's being strategic, almost like a chess player, which I'm not very good at chess, but it is, you know. That's why getting the right people around you who can support you like the legal experts we spoke to last week, to you as well, to your team, to other parents, that's where you really start to empower yourself, because you can't do it all by yourself and you can't know and getting in the head of the local authority I mean it's great that your Liz has that background experience, because they know the beast. Then you know Sorry, I shouldn't call the local authority a beast, sorry, that slipped out of my mouth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much, Joanna. It's been an absolute pleasure, and I will have all of your details for Sensational Tutors in the show notes so that people can reach out and speak to you and get some of that wonderful free advice that you're giving.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and it's also to note that we do attend tribunals as well. I put myself down as an expert witness. That's also free. What we do as a company is just to make sure that the families that we support are receiving the best possible support for their children.
Speaker 1:And that's huge. I mean, those tribunals are scary things. I know. I've been through them myself. So having people by your side who know all of this stuff and can help support you is incredibly valuable. So that's a huge giveaway for parents. So thank you, joanne, thank you, thank you for listening. Send Parenting Tribe. If you haven't already, please click on the link in the show notes to join us in the private Send Parenting what's Up community. It's been wonderful to be able to communicate with everyone in the community and for us to join together to help each other to navigate challenges and to also celebrate successes. Wishing you and your family a really good week ahead, thank you.