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SEND Parenting Podcast
Welcome to the Send Parenting Podcast. I'm your neurodiverse host, Dr Olivia Kessel, and, more importantly, I am a mother to my wonderfully neurodivergent daughter, Alexandra, who really inspired this podcast.
As a veteran in navigating the world of neurodiversity, I have uncovered a wealth of misinformation, alongside many answers and solutions that were never taught to me in medical school or in any of the parenting handbooks.
Each week on this podcast, I will be bringing the experts to your ears to empower you on your parenting crusade.
SEND Parenting Podcast
The legal lifeline for SEN families with Richard Orr, CEO of SOS SEN
Richard Orr, CEO of SOS SEN charity, shares how they empower families navigating the special educational needs system through legal support, advice centres, and their national helpline. Their pre-action protocol letters achieve a remarkable 97-98% success rate in resolving cases without going to tribunal, saving families from lengthy legal battles while securing proper educational provisions.
• SOS SEN started 20 years ago when concerned individuals helped parents fight a special needs school closure
• The charity offers both emotional support and practical legal guidance to families struggling with local authorities
• Their pre-action protocol letters remind local authorities of their legal obligations, often resolving cases immediately
• Local authorities spent £100 million fighting tribunals with only 2% success rate – wasting money that could support children
• The charity has expanded to offer advice centres across England and doubled their helpline hours
• All services are designed to be accessible regardless of financial circumstances
• Top tips include: keep everything in writing, find your supportive "tribe" of other SEND parents, and use first names with professionals to level the playing field
Click here to get more information on SOS!SEN
Click here to join our private WhatsApp SEND Parenting community for a safe space to connect with other parents navigating their neurodiverse journey. You'll find support, insights and real conversations with like-minded parents who truly understand.
www.sendparenting.com
Welcome to the Send Parenting Podcast. I'm your neurodiverse host, dr Olivia Kessel, and, more importantly, I'm mother to my wonderfully neurodivergent daughter, alexandra, who really inspired this podcast. As a veteran in navigating the world of neurodiversity in a UK education system, I've uncovered a wealth of misinformation, alongside many answers and solutions that were never taught to me in medical school or in any of the parenting handbooks. Each week on this podcast, I will be bringing the experts to your ears to empower you on your parenting crusade. If you're looking for a safe space to connect with other parents navigating their neurodiverse journey, our private WhatsApp community offers support, insights and real conversations with like-minded parents who truly understand. Join the conversation today. You can find the link in the show notes.
Speaker 1:In today's episode, I'm joined by Richard Orr, ceo of SOS SEN, a remarkable charity that has been a lifeline for families navigating special education needs system and educations in schools. Whether it's accessing an EHCP or appealing a local authority's decision or simply understanding their rights, sos SEN empowers parents with knowledge, support and often much-needed hope. Well welcome, richard. It is such a pleasure to have you on the SEND Parenting Podcast to talk about SOS SEND Charity.
Speaker 1:You know as a parent, I know how difficult it can be to navigate the school system, especially when you're trying to get the right support for your kid and you don't understand anything, and you don't even understand what settings are out there, and you're trying to navigate this world and you know, knowing what your legal rights are, how to interact with the local authority. I mean, I could equate it to like, you know, being dropped in a jungle with a toothbrush and asked to survive. You know it's just not easy and you know this isn't in any of the parenting handbooks and no one tells you about it. So I am so happy to have you here today, because the more resources that are out there for parents that can empower them and help them to navigate this, the better. So I would like to start out with can you tell us a little bit about how SOS and charity came into being?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. First of all, thank you ever so much for having us on. It's really exciting to be here. So the charity started over 20 years ago when a school in Richmond was due to close its doors. They hadn't consulted quite accurately with families and naturally this meant that a lot of children, young people in a special needs school were going to be without a provision and it was very scary for a lot of people. A group of like-minded individuals got together. Two of them sat on the governing body of this school. They got together and they said this isn't okay, this is not right. So they got to working, got to chatting and they discussed what should happen, what could happen. They started learning the code of practice and things like that. Um, and they opened up a helpline for the parents of this school and said give us a call and we'll give you some advice on what you can do and what your rights are. Um, that worked so much so the other family started calling this helpline as well and saying could you help me maybe?
Speaker 1:The word get out on the street. I absolutely did. Yes, I told you like we're desperate. We're in the jungle with a toothbrush. We are desperate, exactly.
Speaker 2:Any vine will do. And this group of individuals. They realized that there was a need. There was this huge gap in that awareness and that knowledge for families. So they enhanced their knowledge, they enhanced their sort of expertise and they started to navigate the system and started to find other people that could help navigate it too. The helpline then became a national helpline and started helping people to navigate the send situation. From there. Over the years it just grew. It grew organically. They had walk-in advice centres. Again, they were based in sort of like the Richmond Surrey areas. They had an office in Hampton Court.
Speaker 2:Ten years ago, prior to that, we'd engaged with Eleanor Wright, our SENS solicitor. We'd engaged her for help and said, oh, could you help with this, this and this? And she did. But ten years ago we said to her hey, you've helped us for so long and you've helped so many people, why not do it for us? Helped us for so long and you've helped so many people, why not do it for us? And um, and uh, yeah, that's when Eleanor joined the charity um and helped us to elevate our sort of send law experience.
Speaker 1:But yeah, that's, that's where it started, that's where it formed so it sounds like it really started from you know unmet need and then, because that unmet need is so huge, it's just grown and grown and you as an organization have been able to meet that need and get the right individuals who can actually support parents to navigate them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly that, and it was about blending something as well, the missing need. What we identified was, like you said, the beautiful analogy you're dropped in the jungle, you've got a toothbrush, and it is that fear, that anxiety, and I'm on my own. And what we wanted to do is we didn't just want to be an answer to that call of oh, I can talk you through this. Instead, we wanted to kind of stand shoulder to shoulder with some parents and say let me just listen to a bit of what's going on for you outside of the legalities. Let me hear your emotional story first and let me hold that for you for a moment, and then we'll guide you through this. So it's very much about empowering our families so as they can navigate the system themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's, you know, just to be able to tell that story and have someone listen with an empathetic ear and, to you know, offload it, so to speak. It must be, ear and, to you know, offload it so to speak.
Speaker 2:It must be incredibly empowering for parents to have that kind of support. Absolutely my SEND law knowledge is not there, that's not my specialism, but I go to as many of our advice centres as I possibly can to meet and greet the families that we're supporting and what I am able to offer is that listening ear and so many families that come in. I say you know, why is it that you're here today? And, and before anyone answers, you watch them sort of like do this big inhale going well, they feel like they've got to tell you so much and you can feel all of the emotion of everything they've held. And whilst I can't help them navigate the legal process, I can hold that for them and I can watch it. When I'm at those advice centers I can feel how I can just take on those stories and just help those families just to navigate that part of the journey, and I think that that's a real crucial step.
Speaker 1:It is and just having that support there where you can walk in or you can call somebody because you do feel so alone on this journey and getting that help you need. Now I know you've had, you've supported lots and lots of families over the 20 years through some incredibly tough circumstances. But could you share with us today two stories kind of that highlight the work your team does and kind of the difference it makes to families in in real life terms?
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely so. I'll um, I'll share them in brief because I asked my team you know, tell me some cool stories and, uh, some tell me some stories of some work that we've done. And I got a myriad of stories and obviously the back stories as well. But so the first one, um was an interesting case whereby there was a, a young lad that um needed um additional provisions within school. Um, in a mainstream school, the classroom sizes were too large. The family had then found a? Um smaller private school that they were able to fund.
Speaker 1:Um or did he have a diagnosis? This boy or yeah.
Speaker 2:So there was some diagnosis there, um, and there was some a number of needs that that he had that would make larger classrooms really, really difficult for him to access. The, the private school were able to get things started and they were able to reduce the costs, saying you know, we've got the EHCP, we'll ensure that the LA is funding this. When they were doing the consultation, the local authority didn't actually consult with the school. They didn't meet with the school and they didn't look at the additional things in the ehcp and the provisions that required, but they did approve this school placement. They approved that in section I of the ehcp, which is is quite remarkable, because I mean that they don't really like to approve.
Speaker 1:I mean a private school, that's not a specialist school, I mean that's just uh wow exactly so.
Speaker 2:So naturally everyone was like this is great, this is local authority Miracle. Basically yeah, and done everything that they should Brilliant. It then transpired that when the invoices came through from the school and they said and these are the provisions we need to put in place, the local authority then came back and said oh, we, actually we're not going to pay that and the miracle disappears.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just and there was a ah, we didn't realize it was this much and we didn't realize that there was that much to be done, um. So no, we're going to remove all of those provisions and we're going to, we're going to redo the ehcp um, and it's a legally binding document they've agreed to, huh. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I guess, as a parent hearing that, you're kind of feeling like, oh my God, what can I do now? This is the local authority. The school hasn't been paid. I'm sure they're also putting pressure on the parents as well, and so then they reached out to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and fortunately this case came to Eleanor right and she had some experience with this particular local authority. She knew the legal rights of this family.
Speaker 1:She'd worked with them before, had she, she'd worked with them before and she knew the legal rights of the family.
Speaker 2:So she said, let's, let's talk about this. Um, so Eleanor was able to to put together a legal document to expressly outline what the law was, how failure to consult with the school was not the family's issue or error. And altering the EHCP just to meet financial constraints, that's that's not allowed either. And she put this letter together and she was really impressed actually, that the local authority read it and responded and didn't go through the full tribunal process. Instead they came back and said, yeah, do you know what? We didn't consult correctly.
Speaker 1:I mean I'm sorry, richard, but it sounds like they're caught with their pants down and they were hoping to pull a fast one on the parents in the school and just let's just rip this up here. You know, I mean so and that's that's such a great story, because it highlights how important it is to get that help, to get that legal knowledge to write that right kind of letter which shows them you don't have a foot to stand on here.
Speaker 2:You know what you're trying to do is not right. Yeah, yeah, this is exactly right. And and we've got our pre-action protocol, um project that we've been running for that exact purpose, because there are so many occasions where a local authority will act unlawfully um, either consciously or unconsciously.
Speaker 1:Uh, very diplomatic.
Speaker 2:Richard very diplomatic, but they will act unlawfully, and our Pre-Action Protocol project is allowing us to give families that really, really powerful letter to say I would just like to remind you of the law, I'd like to remind you of what we are legally entitled to, and we aren't asking for moon on the stick. We're actually asking for equitable education for our child.
Speaker 1:So let's, let's stop putting barriers in place and let's actually help us get there so for my listeners who don't know what a pre-action protocol letter is, can you explain that just a little bit?
Speaker 2:I absolutely can. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to explain it in the way that I've had it explained, because I am not of legal mind, neither are we so good?
Speaker 2:So pre-action protocol letter or judicial review letter? The best way I've ever had it explained is it's almost like a letter, a warning, a legal letter of warning to send to sort of the local authority or to whomever you're sending it to. To just outline if I would like to remind you you are breaking the law. If you ignore this, we are then going to take formal legal action. So it's not. It's not threatening legal action, it's just reminding of laws prior to threatening legal action. Wow yeah.
Speaker 1:It's just yeah, wow, it's like you know what, we actually know what we're talking about and you can't do this to us. So I mean it's really sad that we're in a state that you need to have these kinds of letters to hold local authorities to account, and it's really sad because a lot of parents don't know what is the law and they can get misguided from the school, not intentionally always, but because they've been taught by the local authority, sometimes wrong. You know what I mean? There's a lot of confusion around this. And then, yeah, but it is actually in law quite black and white in terms of what your rights are, and this is something that we're lobbying for.
Speaker 2:We lobbied the previous government and we're lobbying this government for the law, particularly around ehcps, and send law. It's actually really clear, um, and it's it. It's enforceable and it's really. It's a good law and it protects families and it helps families to get the best for their children. So when, when there's a lot of this conversation about, oh, we could change this and we might change this, that naturally makes us nervous because we're like, no, no, no, the law is actually in place and it's good.
Speaker 2:What you need to do is help local authorities to learn it and to understand it and to follow it, because through our pre-action protocol letters, I think we've seen something it's even 96 or 98 success rate of once we send that letter. The local authority is then overturning their decisions, so it's just about reminding them of the law, which is a shame that you have to do. Um, it's incredibly frustrating and we it's one of those really really crazy, crazy situations for us as a charity. What we ideally want is the measure of success is that we're no longer needed and local authorities understand the law. They put the law in place and provisions are in place for children. That would be success. Until then, we have to put these measures in place to help families to understand how to navigate it.
Speaker 1:But what's really nice is that with these letters actually you prevent going to. So am I understanding this correctly? Do you prevent going to a tribunal 97 to 98% of the time? Because I know like in my case we ended up having even with a hire to solicitor. We had to go to tribunal. So you know they dragged it out to. It was almost like a game of chicken.
Speaker 2:How long long. You know how long can you hold for and and, frustratingly, we we know that there is at least I don't know a year, two years wait list to go on to tribunal, and we know there's local authorities that are actively using that time to their advantage and saying hey, I can deny you provision for two years, save us all of the money for two years and then, in the last minute, we'll then give you what you actually want, because we know we're going to anyway.
Speaker 1:It becomes a financial roulette that they're playing with because and you know unfortunately there isn't enough funding right. So it's a system that you know local authorities are going bust. So you know, you can in some ways understand why they're doing this, but it's morally corrupt and not right. But you can see where their motivation is coming from, if you know what I mean. Like it's not, if they had all the money in the world, I don't think this would be happening if they were properly funded.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I don't think this would be happening, you know, if they were properly funded.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I tend to agree and in so many ways, you know, we. What we always say is we sympathize with local authorities to a point because if there was unlimited funds we would hope that they would put these things in place and we go fantastic. Where our sympathy kind of ends is when you hear like in, I think it was during the year of 2024, um, it might be 2023, but I think local authorities in in england spent 100 million pound going to tribune and they had a success rate of two percent and you say, well, that's 100 million pounds of public funding that you just wasted. Now we know that £100 million. I mean, if someone wants to give me £100 million, that's a lot of money. But if we're spreading that across the country across all SEM provisions, that doesn't spread very far, but it certainly helps a lot more families get a lot closer than if we're just throwing that money away at fighting for no purpose other than to just save money for a little bit.
Speaker 1:And yeah, it's not cost effective. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's just yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's destroying.
Speaker 2:It's destroying children's lives and it's destroying parents' lives and it's it's got a high cost to society as well and and and this is the thing in my previous role prior to here, I worked in a data centre for disabled adults and I would quite easily have said that 50% of the people that attended that centre had they had the right provisions and right support in place at school, in education, they wouldn't have needed to access our provision. But as a result because they weren't given that they needed so much more help and support to actually be a part of society, which is what they wanted anyway. And then there's the additional cost to public as well. There was the cost to go to the provision.
Speaker 2:You think all of this could have been avoided if we didn't keep kicking that can down the road. And this is someone who actively wanted to be a part of society, actively wanted to be economically viable, but was almost actively sort of held back from being able to do it just because it was easier to label that child as naughty or easier to say well, I can't possibly offer any changes to to that child, because if I give this child that, it means that that child over there will want it too, and it's. It's this, um, it's this incredibly frustrating sort of merry-go-round of just doom and gloom and frustration of if we just stopped it going around for a moment and realized what we were causing, five, 10, 15 years down the line, we could actually make some real difference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's biting our nose to spite off our faces pretty much so anyway, I have really diverted us from our case study here. So, let's go back to the case study. So we have the letters being sent, and then did they concede?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the LA sent a formal response and they said you know, we're going to sort of review what we've done here, we are going to name this preference at the school, we are going to put all of those things in place said that they would pay it in full and they would continue to support. So they did end up paying for everything and all of the arrears as well.
Speaker 1:so it was a really, really positive outcome and I mean the power of one letter and and some legal knowledge. I mean, that just says it all you know, absolutely yeah, absolutely absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2:It was a great win, absolute great win for that family.
Speaker 1:All right, give us another example, because I think that really brings it to life.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. The other one was supported by one of our SEND advisors. This was a young girl who was transferring from post-16,. Following the annual review of the EHCP, the local authority notified the family that they'd proposed to make the changes to the plan, but then they just didn't issue the draft and they didn't follow any of the deadlines. They didn't complete.
Speaker 1:Shocker again. I've never heard that happening.
Speaker 2:No, it was Never, experienced it myself. And then they failed to complete the annual review process, didn't issue the final EHCP. So all of these things are then building up, which meant that this young person couldn't have a smooth transition into the next school. Um which and the the families they chased up. They tried everything they could to to work with the local authority and and try to make things work. Nothing, nothing happened. Um. So they got in touch with us um and they asked if we could help.
Speaker 2:So Gemma, who's our SEND advisor, she sent a pre-action protocol letter to the local authorities, challenged all of the history, cited some of the relevant law and just applied some of the law about deadlines and sent that off to the SEND department, the law about deadlines, um and um sent that off to the send department, the local authorities legal team, um and gave them a deadline of um when to respond um after the issue. After the letter was issued um, one week later a draft EHCP was was finally sent through um. So that wasn't the end of the story, but that was certainly the end of that part of it that allowed the family to then have that AHCP and say right now we can start this process into post-16 and what's next basically. So it got them one step closer.
Speaker 1:It got the roadblock removed Because I know for myself you can email them, you can call them. The person that you're supposed to speak to changes so many times that you don't even know who you're trying to contact. I mean, I would speak to the secretary a lot, but they didn't get me anywhere. So it's like Fort Knox, you can't get into it, you can't. So having an organization be able to send that letter, that is like, oh, you know, now they have to. It's like almost like okay, now you have to listen.
Speaker 1:I don't have to listen to you as a parent, but now that you've got some representation, I'll listen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Now again, I'm I'm so proud of my team that we are there to answer that call and that we can put our name to these things, but I think it's appalling that we have to. I think it's appalling that, like you say, that parents and families are trying desperately to get through to someone to get the right answer, all of this whilst they're trying to be a parent. Take out being a parent of a sen child. You're trying to be a parent. That's exhausting, it's absolutely exhausting. And now you're, you've got all of these additional things that you are trying to make sure that you navigate and you are becoming an expert with it. And now you've got to try and reach out to the local authority, who are just slamming doors in your face and refusing to speak to you. It's just, we always describe it it as sprinting uphill with 100 kilos on your back, and then people just keep putting obstacles in your path and saying, yeah, just dodge that or jump that, would you? It's just, it's everything just fights against you.
Speaker 1:It's like when you want to get technical support and you know you can't get past the chat bot. You can't actually get to a human being, you don't get a response to your email and you know you can't get past the chat bot. You can't actually get to a human being, you don't get a response to your email. You know, and, and you're just like you, you almost you lose the will to live. I mean, that is what it's like. But this is someone who's supposed to be your liaison, who's supposed to be someone helping you, who's supposed to be, you know, part of your team for your child. You know, yeah, yeah, it's um, and it hasn't been off-sourced or outsourced to another country. No, these are people in England and Wales, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:They just don't want to talk to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and in fairness, to play their role as well. I know their caseloads are ridiculous. They bring in people who are extremely inexperienced and people burn out quickly and leave the role because it is soul destroying. I can imagine talking to all those parents that you've heard in the in the centers offloading this stuff because they have no power to do anything about it. So I also have, as much as I've had words against them, I also have compassion as well, because it's it's it's not easy for them either.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I know, I know, um, some people that have gone from teacher to senko, from senko to trying to work in a local authority saying do you know what? I'm going to work on the ehcp team. I am going to get these across the line and these people are running into these jobs with passion and enthusiasm and getting there and going what do you mean? I can't sign off on this EHCP? Like, yes, I can. Everything says that I can. So, yeah, I think it's really really difficult for so many people involved and it's not easy.
Speaker 1:It's not easy and that's why it's great to have the support that you offer and your charity currently works in England, to have the support that you offer and your charity currently works in England. Now I've had a couple of other organizations that help parents on this podcast, and something that happens is the minute word gets out as it did for that little Richmond where this all started and then whoa, a tidal wave of parents come to your door. It's, you know, like unbelievable how, what are your, what is your ability now to deal with families, what are the kind of areas and what are some of the pressure points? Like, if someone's listening right now, it's like, oh my God, this sounds so good. Could they just pick up the phone and get through to Helpline, or could they just walk into a center? Like, what is the reality of it? I'm really asking you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean look the reality of it. I'm really asking you. Yeah, I mean, look, the reality is we're getting busier and things are growing. The reality is in october 2023, the the charity realized that they was growing and they needed to grow even further. So this is when the charity recruited myself to become the first ceo of the charity and they set me the challenge. The board of trustees set me the challenge grow us. We are a national charity and we want to be a national charity.
Speaker 2:A lot of our advice centres were kind of south-centric at that point and our helpline it had limitations. You know, when I joined, I think we were able to do sort of 10, 15 hours a week of availability and at that point we had something like five or six advice centers. So I came in, I looked at where the pinch points were, where some of the struggles were, our helpline being one of them. So we recruited more volunteers to support on our helpline. We are now consistently offering between 30 to 35 hours a week on our helpline. Wow, so you doubled it over. Doubled it, absolutely, yeah. And we've just appointed a helpline coordinator that's going to be starting in April and their aim is to see if they can double it again and continue to grow that.
Speaker 1:So there'll be someone to answer the phone when you call.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:That is the intention. We are receiving around about 1,500 calls a month at the moment to our helpline. So we are growing it and we're seeing what we can do there. Advice centres we have now grown our availability there. Advice centres we have now grown our availability there. We've an advice centre in Birmingham, bristol, canterbury launches next month. We just launched in Chelmsford in Essex. We've just launched in Westminster, waterloo, peckham. So we are growing.
Speaker 2:I often say if I had the magic wand, I would open an advice center in every major city in England and then slowly but surely expand from there. We offer webinars. They are able to reach out to a whole host of people and it's able to. If you aren't near an advice center, you can call us. We've got one-to-one sessions. We've got document services. So all of it is growing.
Speaker 2:My intention is to continue to grow our free services, which is the helpline and the advice centers, to make sure that our families will always have someone that they can either pick up the phone to or they can walk in with their bag of paperwork and say make this, make sense to me, help me to navigate this. And for all of our free services there's no limits. So if you phone the helpline today and you've got some advice today and, fantastic, you put it into action and a week later you was like right, I'm, I need, I've got the response I need. You call the helpline again and provide them. You can get through. That is always there, um, it never goes away.
Speaker 1:Same for our um advice centers you can just keep on accessing those because we want to empower you throughout the entire journey, not just for today and then, in terms of, like, getting those letters and the and, uh, you know, uh, because I imagine that sometimes that's that's what the advice is Okay, we need to now step in and actually hold the local authority to account and you know, this is what we recommend. You know, I imagine that you, as a parent, writing one of those letters yourself, versus having some of legal expertise in the right law, it's chalk and cheese. So how does that work as a parent? So we have have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're absolutely right. We've got a number of different um document services that we write and we either support families doing it or we help them to do it themselves. Um, we have found that obviously, when we're putting those lessons together, they're going to be checked at a higher standard, I guess, so we will know exactly the language to use, what works, what doesn't.
Speaker 1:You need that legal brain that we're both lacking and most parents are lacking. You need the legal I can't even speak the legal lingo and the law. It's a triple L to be able to actually put the fear in the local authority Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, yeah, and that costs money and again our charity holds some gravitas.
Speaker 2:We've got a reputation, we are. We are meeting with ministers, we are meeting with tribal judges, so we've got some gravitas. So the various document services that we offer. So we've got the pre-action protocol letters and we write grounds of appeals. We support with doing EHCP checks. So when your local authority sends you your EHCP, naturally there is going to be the weasel words within there and the frustrating terms that just don't help anyone.
Speaker 2:So we we will go through that check and we will essentially we will kind of do it like a working document and we will write a full report on that check and we will point out everything that's wrong and we will present that back to the family that you don't need the legal terms, you don't need any of the other knowledge. You I can hand that back to yourself. Family that you don't need the legal terms, you don't need any of the other knowledge. I can hand that back to yourself. And you can go fantastic, I'm sending that to local authority If they make all of these changes that we have recommended. That's now a plan that's going to be suitable.
Speaker 1:And then you have a good document, a legally binding document, I might add, to make sure that your child gets the support that they need for them in education.
Speaker 2:Exactly that child gets the support that they need for them in education. Exactly that, exactly that. Um. So there are costs to to the, to the document writing services that we offer. Um, and what I would say, and what is essential throughout all of our services, is, whilst there are costs for that, that, that work subsidizes our free services, like the helpline and the advice center. That being said, cost is never going to be a barrier, um. So if we have families reach out to us and say, actually I can't afford this service, we have so many different options to help those families because we're not going as a charity, we're not going to let that family sort of just find their own way just because they can't afford it. We've got provisions in place to be able to support families, to help make sure that we can always do those things.
Speaker 1:And then, in fairness, the cost of those documents is substantially lower than, let's say, if you went to a solicitor or something like that, so you're not paying full price.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. As an example, a pre-action protocol letter. We've got kind of two grades. You've got either the more straightforward or you've got the complex. Straightforward can be looked at by the SEND advisor team. That would cost £150. The complex ones, that has to be done by our solicitor and they cost £300. But for our solicitor it will probably take her around about six plus hours to write that letter and if you think solicitors are probably what? £200 an hour roughly. So I believe if I'm correct on this and forgive me if I'm incorrect here but I believe under legal aid I think it's something like 56 pounds an hour for a solicitor. On legal aid we make sure that our costs are always even below what legal aid would be. So it's it's. We're always going as far as we can to make sure that we are not charging families an extortionate amount for for anything that we need to do and also the experience that they have if they're doing this day in and day out is phenomenal, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I think it makes it a lot more accessible to a lot more people, and it's great that you do also for those who can't afford it, have different pathways for them as well. So no one is left feeling completely unsupported.
Speaker 2:So that's fantastic yeah, yeah, because it's so many people are fighting, so many fights and they are struggling and so many of our parents and children, we, we hear so many and we are collecting data on how many families have had to give up work to become a full time parent. So, actually, finance has become even more tricky and even more difficult. So, yeah, we don't ever want to be that additional barrier.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's fantastic and gives hope, I think, to a lot of people. Now when we spoke before, you also mentioned that there's opportunities for parents to kind of give back and to help support the charity as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. Our charity would not exist if it weren't for our volunteers. For our volunteers, um, we have such an array of some wonderful, wonderful volunteers um working with us and it brings so much knowledge as well. It's incredible, um and it used to be years ago that to become a volunteer for for sossan, you would go on to the helpline first and then you would expand and grow. But again, something that we looked at and we changed in the last year was actually let's do some targeted recruitment.
Speaker 2:So, are you someone that cannot stand talking on the phone? Yes, I am Right. Well then, you're not going to be good for the helpline, but do you have a really keen eye for the EHCPs and the Weasel Words? Yes, you do. Brilliant, you're going to be on our document services. You're going to be on our document services. You're going to do those.
Speaker 2:We have some people that have got some fantastic experience. I would say probably about at least 80% of our volunteers are SEND parents themselves, so they've navigated the system themselves, and then we have some wonderful families that come on board for the helpline and we'll just a couple of like a couple of hours a week, um to just man those helplines, hit the helplines and just help as much as they can. Others, um have got the experience and they can support at advice centers and go in and support there, so it really really does grow. Um, and when it comes to us opening new advice centers, what we are always looking for is, first and and foremost is there a need?
Speaker 2:Are we looking at a local authority that is acting particularly poorly? If so, that looks like an area that needs an advice centre set up. Then we've got to find the people with the right knowledge and the right skills to be able to hit the ground running and the network of SEM parents that would access it. We will then issue the SOSN training to get that group up and running, to ensure that they've got all the resources to be able to offer the best level of advice and guidance in their area. So we're looking to upskill and empower those families and those networks so as they can then continue to support. But again, they've then got the backing and the branding of Sosson behind them.
Speaker 1:So it's again, it's that way to expand do you have certain areas or parents can reach out to you if they think they have the need?
Speaker 2:I would say parents should reach out to us if they think that they've got the need In those areas again to launch a new advice centre. It all comes down to us getting the volunteers in place. If we haven't got that team in place it's just not possible, and recruiting for an advice centre advisor is actually really challenging. So if someone comes to us and says I've got an area and I've got three other um people that have got my level of knowledge, could we open an advice center? We will then back that, we will fund the launch of it, we will market it and we will support it with all training and support that we can as well. So it's about getting the right, the right people in place for it. So yeah, if people are sort of listening and thinking I could use one in my town reach out to us and we'll see what we can do.
Speaker 1:basically, Well, that's excellent, and I will have links to how to do that in the show notes and then I'll also put it out. I also have a SEND Parenting community with about 150 parents, mainly moms, on that, because I think one of the most amazing things that I've found through this as hard as this journey is for all of us is that all the moms and even dads that I speak to, they want to give back and they want to help a parent that's been on that journey make it a bit easier for them. Time is limited for everybody and, yes, it is hard, but as you progress and as you start to get your child's needs met and you're not having to deal with all of that stuff, you have a little bit of spare time that you can. You know. That's why I do this podcast. I give back with this.
Speaker 1:This is something I do as a passion project, but you know, so it's it's uh it. We want to help others. So I think it will resonate a lot and I think it's really great that you're teaching communities how to fish themselves and how to help themselves and then giving them that structure to help. So I hope that some of my listeners who feel this would benefit their community, will reach out to you. So that's exciting because it empowers you. And I think you really get bitter and frustrated and I got really angry with the local authority, really angry.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I funneled it into this podcast, which turned something good into it and I think that by giving back and by being able to support people and also to you know, it gives me great joy that I can help other parents not get screwed over by the local authority. I couldn't take on the local authority, but I can help other parents with knowledge. Screwed over by the local authority I couldn't take on the local authority but I can help other parents with knowledge, just like you're helping parents, and that is its own. You know payback the best revenge is living well right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely it is.
Speaker 1:And you also mentioned, before we go on to my, you know, top three tips for parents which I have warned you about. You mentioned that, uh, there's a webinar, um, that, uh, you're going to offer a discount, I think, maybe to listeners absolutely so.
Speaker 2:Um, we, we have a whole back catalog of uh, of webinars, um, and we're always looking at future content that we're launching to continue to empower families, and our webinars are um 10 pound to to attend. Um and you get for 60 days. Um, what? What we recognize is one of the biggest struggles out there is what should my ehcp look like? What? What am I dealing with here? So Eleanor put together a webinar on this. It was incredibly popular and really, really powerful for families and a really useful tool. So what we are offering is we've issued a discount code for listeners of this podcast listeners of this podcast so you will be able to get a 50% discount for this podcast.
Speaker 1:Basically, so I believe that'll be in the show notes as well. Yeah, that'll be in the show notes and it'll be on my website as well, and yeah, and people can then access it for five pounds, which is great. I think that's probably a Starbucks coffee now. Yeah, I think you're about right, or a pint of beer. I think I was seeing on the news. I don't drink beer so I have no idea, but they're like average price of beer.
Speaker 1:So five pounds is a real deal and you get it for 60 days, so that gives you a lot of time. Because you're so right, like the wording is so important, because you can get an EHCP, you can think it's all wonderful and great and then actually it's not enforceable or actionable or measurable and you need it to be all of those things. You need it to be really specific and you need it to be clear in terms of those metrics that you're trying to achieve and wishy-washy wording.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know too often that wishy-washy wording is just a get-out clause for local authorities and, again, maybe they don't know that they're doing it, but we're looking going to write this correctly if it's all the same to you. It was so interesting. Recently I was in a meeting with local authority for a completely different purpose and they were writing a tender to go out and they presented it to me and as I was reading through, I was like what is it with you local authority bods like why can't you ever write specific language? What do you mean? I was like you might be able to do this and we hope that this will be achieved. I went you will do this and this will be achieved. And she was was like oh, I suppose, yeah, that would help. Yes, You're about to spend my money. Make sure you get what you're asking for.
Speaker 2:It's become part of their DNA now, I think so, yeah, I think, well, if we don't ask for anything specific, it means that we never have to measure it, which means it's always sort of a success, right yeah?
Speaker 1:I'm glad you and your charity are holding them to account because hopefully, when it gets to be too painful and too many parents are empowered to show them what they know are their legal rights, then they're going to realize that it's futile and they're going to hopefully stop doing it.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:So what top three tips would you give my listener parents to take away in their back pockets today?
Speaker 2:So what I did here is I went out to all of my volunteers and I said right is? I went out to all of my volunteers and I said, right, you guys are the legends. You tell me what's your top tips. I've had a myriad of messages.
Speaker 1:I'm so impressed.
Speaker 2:Talk about preparation, I know right, but the top ones that sort of kept coming through and kept resonating. Top ones that sort of kept coming through and kept resonating. Evidence is key. Keep everything in writing and keep that log so as you can always keep that information. We have had a great tribunal judge talk to us and she said great lawyers don't win tribunal cases. Great evidence does so everything in writing. Create that paper trail. That's, that's number one, um.
Speaker 2:The second tip is reach out to other sem parents, um, for emotional support and to who might be a little bit ahead of you, um, the best way that we had this described find your tribe, find a group of people that have been through it or are going through it, so that when you are yelling and screaming and so upset, somebody else knows exactly what you're talking about. I think there's so much vile rhetoric in the media about send parents and oh, aren't they asking for too much? It's all very negative. You need a group of people that are there to just stand shoulder to shoulder with you and say no, no, this is right, continue moving forward. And have you had a rubbish day? Yes, I've had a rubbish day, and then that's all right. We're all here together. Um, so find your tribe.
Speaker 2:Um, another one that came through that I I I started to use when we was navigating the system with our son and I think he's such a powerful tool and it really throws people off of their game Using first names. When you are talking to any professional head teacher, teacher, senco, ed professionals, local authorities they will tend to give you a title and they will give you their surname. Scrub that out even the playing field and call them by their first name. It throws people off and it gets people right on the same level playing field as yourself and it makes you just as valuable as those professionals because you are the professional in your child. You know them better than anyone. So take away all of the power and give it all back to yourself. I love that I absolutely love that.
Speaker 1:It resonates with me because I hated being called Dr Kessel. I don't feel like a Dr Kessel, I'm Dr Olivia and I got really in big trouble as a resident having my patients call me Dr Olivia by one of the head nurses. She got really mad at me and said it's unprofessional, and luckily I had caught her smoking on the cardiac ward. So I said to her well, if we want to talk about professionalism, maybe you should address your smoking habits before we talk about how I'm called. But it's so true you know what I mean. There's this white coat syndrome that you find with teachers and with local authority people and doctors that you're scared of them. And I'm guilty of it too. You know the headmistress, oh, you know like.
Speaker 2:Well, if you think, like when you become a parent the first time you take your child to school, when was the last time you were in a classroom or in the head teacher's room?
Speaker 2:It was when you were there and they were godlike and you weren't allowed to challenge these people. So when first time I took my son to school and the teachers, sort of like, stood there like oh, I think I'm in trouble, I don't know what to do. Um, first meeting with the head teacher, it's like hello, miss, uh, I'm sorry, I must have done something wrong to be sat in your room. I I do apologize, you think? No, actually, the stakeholder in this situation is my child and they deserve the best. Or I tell you what, not even the best. How about just equal? Let's get an equitable start for everyone. So I'm all right calling you by your first name.
Speaker 1:I think those are three fantastic tips and please thank your whole team for feeding back, because those really are exemplary tips, and I want to thank you for your time today and you know it's been an absolute pleasure to learn about your organization and I look forward to all of my listeners feeling really empowered and able now to have a resource where they don't have to feel so alone and that they have someone helping them.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. Yeah, and thank you for having us. And, yeah, I'm wishing all the best to all of your listeners and we're here should you need us.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening. Send Parenting Tribe If you haven't already, please click on the link in the show notes to join us in the private Send Parenting what's Up community. It's been wonderful to be able to communicate with everyone in the community and for us to join together to help each other to navigate challenges and to also celebrate successes. Wishing you and your family a really good week ahead, thank you.