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SEND Parenting Podcast
Welcome to the Send Parenting Podcast. I'm your neurodiverse host, Dr Olivia Kessel, and, more importantly, I am a mother to my wonderfully neurodivergent daughter, Alexandra, who really inspired this podcast.
As a veteran in navigating the world of neurodiversity, I have uncovered a wealth of misinformation, alongside many answers and solutions that were never taught to me in medical school or in any of the parenting handbooks.
Each week on this podcast, I will be bringing the experts to your ears to empower you on your parenting crusade.
SEND Parenting Podcast
ADHD Parenting: Heal Yourself, Help Your Child with Randy Free of Aspire Coaching
What if your journey to help your child with ADHD actually begins with healing yourself? Randy Free, founder of Aspire Coaching, offers a refreshing perspective that might just transform your family dynamics.
When traditional parenting approaches fail with neurodivergent children, parents often feel trapped in cycles of conflict, meltdowns, and mutual frustration. Randy's personal story of raising two children with ADHD resonates deeply—the hours spent on homework, the struggles within an inflexible education system, and the constant worry about how their story would end. Through this journey, he discovered a profound truth: healing the family system creates space for the child to thrive.
The heart of our conversation explores Randy's PEACE framework (Perspective, Ease tension, Attune, Connect, and Empower), offering a structured path toward calmer, more connected parenting. We unpack how children's emotional outbursts aren't manipulative or defiant but distress signals from a brain where logic becomes inaccessible during emotional moments. Randy introduces practical tools like the STOP method for identifying emotional warning signs and creating personalised calming strategies before reaching full meltdown.
Perhaps most importantly, we challenge the misconception that gentle parenting means permissiveness. Randy articulates the crucial balance between empathetic connection and maintaining clear boundaries, showing how fewer, more focused expectations actually create space for children to thrive. The conversation takes a beautiful turn as we recognize how neurodivergent children flourish when their education aligns with their passions—like Randy's son who struggled to get out of bed for school but achieved perfect attendance at motorcycle mechanics school.
Whether you're in the trenches of daily ADHD challenges or simply seeking to better understand neurodivergent minds, this episode offers compassionate insight alongside practical strategies. Join us to discover how one breath, one conscious choice at a time, you can transform both your parenting approach and your relationship with your wonderfully unique child.
Click here for Randy Free
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www.sendparenting.com
Welcome to the Send Parenting Podcast. I'm your neurodiverse host, dr Olivia Kessel, and, more importantly, I'm mother to my wonderfully neurodivergent daughter, alexandra, who really inspired this podcast. As a veteran in navigating the world of neurodiversity in a UK education system, I've uncovered a wealth of misinformation, alongside many answers and solutions that were never taught to me in medical school or in any of the parenting handbooks. Each week on this podcast, I will be bringing the experts to your ears to empower you on your parenting crusade. If you're looking for a safe space to connect with other parents navigating their neurodiverse journey, our private WhatsApp community offers support, insights and real conversations with like-minded parents who truly understand. Join the conversation today. You can find the link in the show notes.
Speaker 1:In this episode, I'm joined by Randy Free, founder of Aspire Coaching and a passionate advocate for raising children with ADHD with less stress and more connection. Randy's story will feel familiar to many of us, including myself navigating the stormy waters of parenting a neurodiverse child while searching for a calmer, more connected pathway. What emerged from his journey is a powerful truth when we begin to heal ourselves, we create the space for our families to heal as well. Together, we'll explore the five steps of the peaceful parenting framework and dive into some really practical tools, like the STOP method that can really help to bring calm moments of chaos. We'll unpack how gentle parenting does not mean permissiveness, but instead requires clear boundaries rooted in empathy and emotional regulation.
Speaker 1:This episode is not just about parenting strategies. It's also about personal transformation. One breath, one moment, one conscious choice at a time. So welcome, randi. It is such a pleasure to have you on the Send Parenting podcast today and I'm really excited about our discussion because I'm really aligned with your belief that in order to help our children and their ADHD, we also have to really heal ourselves as their parents, and I know that's been the absolute truth with my daughter who has ADHD and myself. So I think this will really resonate with a lot of my listeners who have children who have ADHD. I thought can we kick it off by you just sharing your personal story of being a parent to some wonderfully ADHD children.
Speaker 2:Thank you, dr Kessel. I appreciate you having me on today. My wife and I have three adult children and the two oldest have ADD or ADHD, and it became apparent, I would say, during middle school. With the oldest daughter, we were spending hours in the evening trying to help her with homework, staying up till 9, 30, 10 o'clock at night, and she was still failing in school, and the school district at the time this was 20-something, almost 30 years ago would say well, there's nothing much we can do. She's either mainstream or special ed, and we knew that she wasn't special ed. She just needed some extra help.
Speaker 2:Fortunately for us, we were able to take them out of public school and start to homeschool them when we moved from Southern California to, or from Northern California to Southern California, and my wife joined a homeschool co-op and really focused in on teaching the kids in the way that they could learn best. And even doing that, there were times when we were like I don't know how this story is going to end. Are we doing the right things? My son, my middle child, was really hard to get up out of bed every morning and get to his online school and things like that, but eventually, once they got out of the home on their own and kind of found their passions. They were able to start thriving and some of the lessons we thought they're just not getting this kicked in and we're like, oh, they were actually paying attention just kicked in and we're like, oh, they were actually paying attention, they've learned. So it was a real journey and I think it helped prepare me for what I'm doing now, which is working with families of ADHD and neurodivergent kids.
Speaker 1:So was there kind of like a before and after, like parenting them before you realized they had ADHD? Oh, one thing actually to clarify, because you said ADD and ADHD and this creates a lot of confusion among my listeners. But I think, based on your age and your children's age, add was still used attention deficit disorder without the hyperactivity. Adhd is attention deficit disorder, hyperactivity. Nowadays it's all umbrellaed under ADHD, but it confuses a lot of people. It's kind of like Asperger's and autism to confuse it even further. But I just want to clarify that that was an old way of kind of classifying. Now everyone is kind of in the same bucket, but it doesn't mean that all presentations have the hyperactivity, but they now include it in that umbrella term.
Speaker 2:Just to clarify. That's right. Yeah, my kids were less hyper, more focused on issues of being focused and staying in focus, and I noticed you have a podcast on the kind of misdiagnosis or misdiagnosis of girls especially and that that is what was going on with my daughter. She, she wasn't disruptive, she didn't act out, so she didn't get the attention from the teachers, but she was quietly struggling Right and not doing well in school. So, yeah, that is, there is a difference there. Some kids are more hyper than others.
Speaker 1:Well, it's super interesting, like as I've researched it more and more and I've actually just written a book actually on this as well is that hyperactivity, which was? I'm a medical doctor and that's what I thought of of ADHD. Do you know what I mean? But actually even in boys it's less than 5% and actually most people grow out of it. So why that has stuck? Maybe from 150 years ago when fidgety Phil first was characterized as ADHD? Somehow that has stuck in all of our minds and therefore we miss a lot of kids that are really struggling, as your daughter's story and my daughter's story kind of personifies, and you don't know what that struggle is about. And that's when it really gets frustrating as a parent, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I see a lot of parents come in and they'll talk with me about their kids and they're like I know they're brilliant, I just think they're not applying themselves because they you know, these kids are brilliant in many areas, and so the parents will see that. And they think, you know, these kids are brilliant in many areas, and so the parents will see that and they think, okay, well, they can do these other executive functioning skills, but they, they simply can't. And so the parent gets confused and wants to push them too hard, too fast and everybody ends up frustrated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think you know that is such an important part of ADHD and this is what you know. I'm so excited about our conversation together because I think we're on the same page here. Is that really the first step is to change how you think as a parent? Child gets better too, and I know for myself changing and understanding Alexandra changed our whole world. But could you kind of discuss how your view is on that kind of symbiosis?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's a bit of a long journey, but I was raised more authoritative and authoritarian you know where my parents would what I say, and then they didn't exactly show me how to do it.
Speaker 2:You know, they just had a really high bar. So the demand was there and working with parents more recently I would see parents come in week after week and we were facing the same problems. Things weren't getting better and so I realized, okay, what we're trying here isn't working and I started researching and reading and quickly kind of realized that traditional parenting techniques simply don't work with neurodivergent kids and there's a better way In fact there's a better way for neurotypical kids as well which focuses on connection and nurturing and understanding what developmental needs they have and then nurturing those aspects of their personalities so that we can help, especially with ADHD and neurodivergent kids. We can help them develop and grow and mature their brain to learn the skills that they need. So it was that realization that I could treat the child. But the child went back into the same family situation week after week and they would come back to me with the same issues. So I realized I needed to heal the family in order to heal the child and so I started working more on the parent side.
Speaker 1:It's super interesting and you know we look to fix our children and actually the answer lies within ourselves. I've been on the journey too, so you know I'm not throwing any bricks out of my glass house. But until you really understand ADHD and you understand the executive functioning and what's going on in their brains and what their challenges are, you're not even in the right stratosphere. And especially if you've been raised authoritarian, which I think most people of certain age was the most commonest form. I mean, my mother used to say my hand is itching, which means you're about to get a big smack, and that was normal.
Speaker 1:So it is really challenging for a parent because it goes against the manual that we've been programmed with, so to speak, and none of it works. And the more you push that agenda on your ADHD child or your neurodiverse child, the more chaos ensues, you know. And the more you know parental guilt you feel, the more burnout you feel and it often goes unaddressed. So tell me a little bit about how you work with, with parents who are coming to you kind of in this scenario with parents who are coming to you kind of in this scenario.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my format is called peaceful parenting and peace is the acronym, and peace stands for perspective, because I think that's the very first thing, as you're talking about, that parents need to work on is their own perspective of their parenting styles, the baggage they bring into the family relationships and the perspective they take on their children's behavior.
Speaker 2:So we work a lot on helping them realize that their outbursts, the kids' outbursts, are not intentional, they're not manipulative, they're not defiant, they're actually distress signals. With a neurodivergent brain, there's a bigger gap between the logical and emotional parts of the brain and the children simply can't access logic when they're emoting right. So their brain all they know to do is to melt down. And so, helping the parents understand that they can. My goal is to help them be more compassionate and have more empathy. A lot of parents coming in with the authoritarian type of style feel like, oh well, I'm being too permissive if I don't fight every battle right or I'm giving in or giving up. But I'm helping them to see that, no, this approach actually gives you more control and more insight to have a better outcome, and that they're still in charge. We're just taking a new perspective.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's a gear shift really for a lot of parents.
Speaker 2:It is yeah, it's really hard, depending on their backgrounds, and a lot of dads have a big issue with this. I know as a dad myself. We tend to come in hot and heavy and we want to lay the law down and change the behavior, and that just doesn't work. As you said, that escalates and it actually causes the child to see me and my anger, for example, as the enemy. And what we really want them to do is to not see me as the enemy but as a supporter, but to focus on their own behavior as the issue. And so if we can have that perspective shift in the parent and the child, then the child will know okay, my behavior is a problem, but I actually have control over that and I can start to work and learn from mom and dad who are now supporting and coaching me.
Speaker 1:And they're also showing the kind of behaviors that you want your child to actually emulate, instead of showing the kind of behaviors that you want to eradicate from your child.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly I was talking about this with a parent yesterday that the kids hijack our nervous system and they're going to hijack it whether it's escalating or whether it's calming down, and we'd much rather them go on the ride to calm themselves. So we talk a lot in my program about co-regulation leads to self-regulation. It's just like a mom swaddling a baby, an infant, right. We hold them close, they hear our heartbeat, they hear our breathing, they can feel our pulse and that helps to calm them. And even when the kids are older, they still need to be able to look to us to co-regulate and help them calm down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think with parents also, there's a lot of self-reflection that needs to happen as you're parenting, and sometimes we don't have a lot of self-reflection. We have a lot of outward view on our children and we don't sometimes check in with ourselves.
Speaker 2:Right, yes, the same parent yesterday was telling me that she was on the way to a birthday party and she had her four kids in the van. And she said I just I was driving and I nearly had a panic attack, had a meltdown, and she was. She's going through a tough divorce and her kids are difficult and she's struggling, and we talked about that. There were probably so many things for her going on in her mind as she was approaching this get together. You know, it was like what are people going to ask me about my family, my husband, my relationship and then my kids are acting out and what does that kind of reflect on me?
Speaker 2:So there was a whole lot going on with her and she said, you know, I started to cry, I had to pull over and I yelled, but then afterwards I kind of collected myself and I apologized and she asked me was that good? And I was like, yes, that was perfect. Right, you want to be able to be real with your kids and help them see you struggle, but also that we apologize and we repair the relationship and even moms have their moments and that will help them learn. Okay, I can do this. I can see mom now calming herself, and so I think it was the right thing to do in that moment was to model that in front of the kids, and of course, she didn't have much choices in the car, so there was no place to go, but she did a good job of that.
Speaker 1:But I think that that's really a key, important part, because nobody's perfect. You know, our kids aren't perfect. We're not perfect. And to be honest about it and to admit, okay, I really messed up there, I'm really tired and I'm really stressed and I'm sorry I lost it. You know that that wasn't how it it it shows you're human and it also makes them feel better. I know my daughter feels really bad when she has meltdowns because she's, you know, a teenager now and she doesn't want to have that. And I said, look, all of us do. I'm an adult. Sometimes I have them. It's okay to feel those big emotions. It's just how you get yourself back again. That's important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I definitely agree, and I it also brought to mind that your kids, during the school days, are likely doing everything they can to hold themselves together, because parents will ask me, why do they only melt down at home or we have these big explosions? Well, they've done everything they can to hold themselves together during the day because they don't want to embarrass themselves. And then they get home and they feel safe and it just comes out right. And they feel safe and it just comes out right and the parent feels attacked and we talk with the parents a lot about how to not engage, how to not get hooked and escalate. But it's a real challenge for parents because your kid is you know some kids I meet they're calling their parents horrible names and swearing and throwing things and it's hard not to get hooked when that's going on at you and towards you.
Speaker 1:No, it is. And to keep your cool, and some days are better than others because you might not have had enough sleep or you might not have eaten properly, or it might have just been a very stressful day, like you're a lady in the car there with the divorce and everything else, and you're on thin ice, and that's usually when you know, uh, you do escalate and it's, it's uh. I would say that there's no parent that I know of, even some of them that I think are the bestest, calmest mothers that I know, who don't occasionally absolutely lose it, and it happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does. And unfortunately, I mentioned earlier, when kids are externalizing emotion, they can't internalize logic. And as I was putting my program together and working on stories in the pillars, I was reminded of a story with my own son when he was about 10 years old. He had done something and I said, harrison, we need to talk. And he looked me dead in the eye and without a word. He just shot upstairs and I heard his door slam and I'm like I'm going to call his name. So I called his name and he didn't come out. My wife's watching me. I was like what's about to happen?
Speaker 2:So I went upstairs and I said, harrison, open this door. And he still didn't open the door and I was just overwhelmed with my own anger and emotion. I squared up to the door, I raised my leg up and I kicked the door in. I raised my leg up and I kicked the door in and he's on the other side, wide eyed, like what just happened. And so then we talked, you know. But now he's an adult and I asked him a couple of weeks ago. I said do you remember that time I kicked your door? And he goes, yeah, like do you remember what you had done no, so neither one of us could remember what the lesson was meant to be. We just remember dad kicked my door in.
Speaker 2:So, nobody's learning when we're all emotional, we need to be able to remain coherent and calm down.
Speaker 1:But you know, it helps to hear stories like that because we're all human and it happens, you know. So it's about you know trying to be the best parent that you can be, and then it's about understanding. So we've barely touched upon your peaceful parenting framework. So what's is the E stem? So the E's empathy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so there's a piece P, e, a, c, e, so it's perspective. The E is actually ease, so that's all right After we've, that's all right After we changed perspective with the and work on perspective with the parents of their kids' behavior. The second thing I want to do is help them ease the tension in the home, and so we talk about ways to de-stress. How do we remove stressors from the day of the children? How do we just choose our battles really is the biggest part of the ease. Pillar A is for attune. We want to attune to our children and reflect back to them what we're hearing so that they feel heard and understood and we can start to help them to self-regulate. The C is for connect, and connecting does two things. That again allows a child to feel heard and understood. But as we're listening to their stories of what happened that day, for example, we're mining for the developmental deficiencies that may give rise to meltdown so that we can then work on those in the way of goals and the final E, which is empower, so it's perspective.
Speaker 1:Could you give an example of that, Randy, in terms of how you would dig for those kind of clues in a story or when your child gets back from school.
Speaker 2:Yeah and it works great. Say, for example, on the walk home from school, the ride home from school or once you're at home. Just as a transition period, I like to encourage parents to check in with their children. Give me a high, give me a low, something you learned about yourself, depending on the age of the kid, something that didn't go right. You want to learn better and you let the child tell their story of the day and you don't interject, you don't judge, you're just listening and reflecting back what you're hearing and the emotions that you're hearing, even if it seems absolutely ridiculous or unreasonable.
Speaker 2:Right, this is their perspective and it does a couple things. It allows the child to process what happened and make a little more sense of it. The child to process what happened and make a little more sense of it. But then you can ask open-ended questions so that you can understand more of what's going on and understand. For example, were they in what happened and whatever upset them? Were they having difficulty problem solving? Were they having difficulty taking another child's perspective? Were they having difficulty waiting their turn or sharing? Were they having difficulty waiting their turn or sharing? So you're looking for, kind of okay, what was happening and then, based on what you're understanding and what you think is sort of highest priority, the empower pillar is to turn those into goals that you and the kids can work on as you go forward, so that you're teaching them these skills. Generally they're executive functioning skills of how we do relationship and how we also manage our own emotions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it can be very challenging, I think, for kids at school, especially when they do have anxiety, are fast to get emotional, especially on the playground. It's not easily forgiven these things on the playground.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that, I think, is one of the things that just breaks my heart in the clinic the most when the kids come in and like nobody play with me or they were playing with me and then they just walked away and left me and they're just so sad and upset and they don't know what to do. They don't have the skills to think about. Oh well, it wasn left me and they're just so sad and upset and they don't know what to do. You know, they don't have the skills to think about. Oh well, I, it wasn't me, they just saw something else over there, shinier, and they want to go play with that. Right, but they, the kids, internalize it and then they start to label themselves as there's something wrong with me or I'm not a good friend. And we work, you know, then we have to work on changing those negative narratives. But yeah, that's a that's a big part of it is that the kids do struggle, you know, and they, they tend to. They start to get labels and and struggle relationally at school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and for I mean, I don't know about your children, but for my daughter that's like the most important part of school. The rest of it is just kind of you got to get through it.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly, yeah, there's studies. I've seen that, especially for teenagers, that social rejection is worse than death. Right, they do not want to be socially rejected and so when that happens with these kids, it's really tough. They can become isolated and very dejected, especially if the home life also is not very supportive. Some families come in where maybe mom gets it but dad doesn't, and dad's not supportive, and the kids are struggling at school Just for them. For the child, it seems like there's no place. That I've really kind of fit in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is a very yeah. It's not what you want for your kids at all. No, not at all yeah. And that's where it lines back to what we were talking about is it's the parents kind of being able to understand that situation, to be able to help it really.
Speaker 2:Right, and, yeah, find what their kids are great at. My oldest daughter she's an interior designer is doing very well in her career. Math, science, history forget it, you know those were not her subjects. My son is very mechanical. He was always taking things apart and putting them back together. The problem is that the schools want you to fit into their program without any changes and the neurodivergent kids have difficulty with that. It's hard for them to sit still Sometimes it's hard for them to stay focused. But if you find their passion and if you can like we could with homeschooling you can apply the education around those topics. They learn really well. You know, give my daughter a project on the history of art. She would go crazy with it, hours and hours and detail. But yeah, so it's finding what their passion is and then helping to support and develop that and they'll be brilliant at it.
Speaker 1:And it's funny, like my daughter has working memory issues, right, and so she doesn't remember, she struggles to remember what she did in class, whatever. But she loves theater and drama and she's in Lambda here, which is a drama kind of certification, and she's got to memorize or read actually a chapter of a book. She's memorized the whole story. I'm like where's your working memory problems here? The whole thing is memorized, you know, because she's acting it out and it's theater.
Speaker 2:She loves it yeah.
Speaker 1:Exactly so. It's so important that you can and it's harder when you are in a mainstream school I'm in a specialist independent school but to be able to flex that, but to find ways for them to learn in their passion, it's like, wait a minute, all these things that they've been tested for, that they're not good at, actually when, and something that they're really interested in, and you put other supports in place but those barriers become much less noticeable, yes, or not at all.
Speaker 2:My son I mentioned before. He started homeschooling and he was always getting up late and he was almost always late to school. My wife actually got pulled over by a cop once trying to get him to school and the school administration they knew her number because she was always calling oh Harrison's going to be late. So when he graduated and he graduated a year late, which was heartbreaking All our friends' kids are graduating. He's not graduating, had to finish a little late.
Speaker 2:He went away to trade school. He went to a motorcycle mechanics school and we were like I don't know how this is going to go. He couldn't get himself out of bed to get to school at home. So it was a year program and at the end of the year he called us. It was in a different state, so that was the other challenge. Right, he's not only going to school. That costs money, he's in another state. But he called us and he's like two things that shocked us. He said they've invited me to be in their honor society and I got a certificate for perfect attendance. And we were like who is this kid? Right, he didn't get his ass out of bed to go to school, but he's gotten perfect attendance. So you're right, when they find their passion, they throw themselves into it, and so it turned out really well. But in the beginning we were like I don't know how this is going to go.
Speaker 1:Well, and that's what's so sad about, I mean, the education system both in the US and in the UK but actually globally is they don't focus on finding our kids' passions at all. They want you to do well in English and math. I mean, I still can't spell, I'm dyslexic, I have no grammar, but I have no grammar. But I have tools now that do all of that for me, and I use a calculator. You know what I mean. So I often wonder why is it so important? You know? Why are they?
Speaker 2:focusing on. You know when the battle of these things was. You know, I think here it's measurements that go to funding. Right, they have to. The school has a lot, a whole has to hit a certain score and then they get funding or not. So that's part of it. Unfortunately, it's just push everybody through. And I, when I was doing my internship, I was working out of middle school and I saw kids being pushed forward that should not have gone forward. You know, absolutely had not mastered that level of math or English, but they were being pushed forward. I was like, wow, this is really underserving these kids. But it's the way the system works, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's why I mean I know a lot of parents. There's a big exodus actually in England of people more and more now are homeschooling and doing exactly what you and your wife did. It's not a potential for everybody, but I think whatever situation you are in, if you can tap into your child's interests, and even if that's outside of school, if you can't do it in the school, it's important too, because then that builds up their confidence as well. They'll tend to find people who are also that they can be socially connected with, who are interested in the same thing. So you can kind of buffer maybe some of the anxiety or the social exclusion that we were talking about by finding interests outside of the home as well. So I think that's a really key point for parents to take away.
Speaker 1:One of the things I also wanted to discuss today because I think this is a huge thing for anyone who has a child with ADHD or has ADHD themselves still still is emotional regulation. Because we run fast and we run passionate and I say to my daughter I say you know what she's like, why and I'm like you know what you feel emotions so strongly. I say you're the happiest child I've ever seen. She gets joy in things. We went to see Matilda the musical and there were some women behind us and when it ended this woman said I just have to tell you I couldn't watch the musical because I just watched your daughter, because she was so loving it. You know what I mean. But there's the flip side to that too. They also experience anger and big emotions and they can't regulate them and it's real struggle, I think, for parents. And it's a struggle sometimes for parents to regulate their emotions. And you've created this kind of acronym again of the STOP method, which I think is quite good. Could you share it with us?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So what I'd like to do is I want to work with parents and children to help them understand their emotion, to identify their warning signs, for example. Then I have a template that I use. It's like a volcano, and I'll have the parents sit with their child and ask the children to give them four levels of emotion or things that cause escalating levels of emotion, and to then go back through and kind of sit in each of those examples and think about where does that show up in my body and try as best we can to help the children and our own selves as an adult. So I encourage parents to do this too, to learn their warning signs, because the hardest part about managing emotion is catching yourself. Right. You're right, the kids go zero to 60 in no time at all, but there are warning signs and so, if we can-, can you give us some examples?
Speaker 1:of what, but there are warning signs, and so if we can give us some examples of what kids have used as warning signs, yeah, some of them will say my neck feels like it's on fire, or my tummy feels strange or my hands start to sweat.
Speaker 2:You know so, and it takes some time for them to come to this, and sometimes we have to catch them in the moment and remind them. You know, in kind of, as they're melting down or in that moment, what was going on for you. So we may have to work on this for several weeks to understand. You know, are your fists clenching? Do you feel like you want to run? Some kids just want to run. Right, it's that fight or fight mechanism, and so it's learning the warning signs, but then also talking about, or talking with the child about, and ask them how do you want to be soothed? So, if you're at a, so the volcano goes from one, which is calm, up to five, which is total meltdown. At each level you find out from the child what would help you go back to a one. So we're not imposing our idea of oh well, you need to sit in the corner and meditate and listen to calming music and smell lavender. Right, that works for some of us, but for some kids that's not going to work. So we want to understand how they want to be soothed. Do you want to be touched? Do you want to be held? Do you want to be held? Do you want your own space? Do you need to hit something? Do you need to punch a pillow? So you're creating I call it the kind of parental playbook of how to avoid the meltdown.
Speaker 2:So it's being able to catch yourself, learning the warning signs and then choosing what I call the off-ramp so that you're not going up the escalation curve. What happens and I'm sure you appreciate this is when we start to get angered, we get irritated, the body starts releasing cortisol and adrenaline and it floods our body and it diverts oxygen and blood flow away from the brain to the organs and muscles so that we can fight or flight. So the very time when we need our brain to be logical, there's less oxygen getting to the brain and it just overwhelms the children, it overwhelms us as parents. So understanding that process. So I tell parents, once you have your plan and the kids start to recognize your warning signs, you then have to gauge where are they? Is this a two or three and we can take an off ramp, or is this a total five and all we can do is help them, try to calm in the moment and not attempt anything else. All learning has to stop. All teaching, all correcting we just have to focus on regulation at that point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's funny because my daughter and I have decided of certain things and then when the rubber hits the road we just went back to school yesterday, funnily enough, and her friend's not going to be there, she didn't want to go back to school and her teacher's giving her things. Like you know, when you're starting to feel yourself, get you know about to go. You know, think of five things in the room, or five senses. I'm like, let's think of five things. She goes, I don't want to think of five things. And I was like, all right, but at the same time it did kind of it made us both laugh because you know, and that actually broke it, we didn't think about the five things, but it did it, did it, did it, did.
Speaker 1:I find that, if you can find that shift, if you can, you know, find a way to just derail it it can. It can work quite well, but sometimes it's best to have plans.
Speaker 2:Humor is a great way to do that too. Love that you guys laughed right. So sometimes it's doing or saying something absolutely ridiculous that breaks that. You know, escalation is like I see you mom and you're what. What is going on?
Speaker 2:yeah, kind of ground them and bring them back to the moment but yeah, yeah you know, every person's different and we have our own ways of how we calm ourselves down. And you know, some of my parents talk about when the kids come home from school and they're upset and they're going into meltdown. They just start throwing things and it's like this path of destruction all the way to their room, you know. And so we talk about OK, how can we allow them to get this energy out in a safe way, in a calm way that they're not destroying property? If they want to destroy their own property, that's okay, because there's a natural consequence that they no longer get to play with that. It's broken. But we don't want them destroying other property.
Speaker 2:So I like to think about, with the parents, creating a calming corner. And so in that space, whatever that space is in your room it could be a teepee. Some kids want to be, you know, hidden away and just quiet, have those things that they can use to calm themselves. It could be scents, you know things they can smell or touch or hit or you know kind of pop. But to give them that, that space based on what they're telling you they prefer.
Speaker 1:And even, like in our case, we do a combination, because you just don't know. We've got a punching bag on the desk, I've got a swing that she can sit in with a weighted blanket, I've got a trampoline outside that we can put music on. You know what I mean, because you just don't know what in the arsenal you're going to need.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's challenging. Not everyone has space for all those things, but you can usually do something you know within your space to give the child options. We're talking about creating options and in the moment they can choose, so that they're choosing, you know better options than than punching their sister, for example. You know taking it out on you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and you know we touched upon this a little bit at the beginning of the podcast, but about gentle parenting and about how gentle parenting can be viewed as permissive. But actually you can do gentle parenting and have good boundaries too, and I think there's a kind of misconception here about that. But you know, because a lot of parents would say, oh, if your kid comes into the house and they're throwing things and breaking things, you know there should be consequences, instead of like giving them a nice calm area or, you know, accepting that, how would you talk to that point?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I definitely believe that there should be a balance and you're right, there's some theories that I think personally swing too far to just connecting with the emotional side of the child and give up on the boundaries. I believe we want to balance holding expectations for our children as well as connecting with them emotionally and helping them learn to regulate their emotion. It's a bit of both. So when I'm in the second pillar, the ease pillar, and we're talking about I like to use alliteration I say cull your conflicts, which is, choose your battle right, cull your conflicts. So if you're fighting every battle in your home, your home is going to be chaos all the time. And again, when kids are externalizing emotion, they're not internalizing logic. So in that chaotic home nobody's learning and it's going to be, you know, groundhog Day. Every day we're going to be fighting the same battle. So what I talk with parents about is choosing which battles you're going to fight, and it should be very few. The rest, rest of them, like if they're wearing mismatching shoes or the wrong color, you know certain bottom, it doesn't matter, right. Or maybe if they didn't bathe that evening, it doesn't matter so much. But by choosing just a few battles, you're helping to de-escalate the home so that there's not so much conflict. And look at the day, how many transitions are you putting your child through? How many times do they get in and out of the car or meet new people or have to go into a crowd or navigate the grocery, you know? So take those stressors out as well, so that you're de-escalating, you're choosing your battles and the goal is for you and the child to remain more coherent, because when they're coherent then they can, can learn from you. And so, um, it's, it's that process of, yes, we want to hold expectations, but we also want to connect and and work on the emotional side in terms of discipline and I do.
Speaker 2:Boundaries. The program that I went through at Concordia University was founded by Dr John Townsend, and John Townsend and Henry Cloud wrote the series of books for boundaries. There's boundaries for kids, boundaries for teens, and what they talk about is empathetic boundaries, meaning you tell the child you know if this happens, then here's the consequence, right up front, and it's going to be a reasonable consequence, so that they know. And the first time the behavior presents itself, you clearly and calmly state the boundary and remind them of the consequence Happens again, you want to restate it. You know, without becoming angry, so that they don't see you as the issue, the third time you need to hold the consequence.
Speaker 2:And the way you do that with empathy is you enforce a consequence and then you say, for example, wow see, this has really upset you. You know that you can no longer play on the game or whatever is happening. So you want to empathize with your emotion and reflect back to them. Yeah, I see this has really upset you. I see you're disappointed, you're frustrated, you're angry. I'm so sorry that that's happening for you.
Speaker 2:So you're being empathetic and you're connecting with the emotion, but at the same time you're holding the boundary strong. So what you're again trying to do is redirect the child's focus away from you as an angry parent, because you're remaining calm, and back on their behavior. Kids want control and we can help them. See, you do have control. You can go back to the game when you can demonstrate X, y and Z right. So they have the control to make their or improve the quality of their life by changing their behavior and working on things and getting the game back, for example. And so I do believe the balance there needs to be a balance between emotional connection and holding boundaries and expectations, but doing it with empathy and not anger.
Speaker 1:There's a zillion things that drive you insane, but instead, you know, like for in our household it's you don't hit, you know, and if you hit, there's going to be a very strong boundary, which is you lose your device, which then usually incites another round of hitting and kicking and breaking things because that's just so pissing off, you know. And then it's holding, as you say, holding that boundary in a calmness and being empathetic about it and just holding that space, so that then they, for us, that's the one thing that's just unacceptable. You know what I mean, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then we talk about that when we're in the pillar of ease. There's four quadrants, and the upper right quadrant is green, and that's the battles you're choosing to fight. The lower left is a blue quadrant. You're wanting to defer these as many things as you can into that quadrant and the battles you choose. Like you said, you always want to choose safety. If there's something going on that is unsafe for either them or they're doing something to somebody else that's unsafe, that has to be a battle we're going to fight and risk a meltdown over, and then usually it's maybe issues of character or respect. You know, those types of things you may choose to always fight. Sometimes, respect, though, can be something that we defer. We can allow them to call us names and remain calm if there's another battle that's more important that we need to focus on in the moment, but, as you mentioned earlier on, that part of the problem, or the challenge, is remaining calm ourselves as a parent, right?
Speaker 1:as these things are going on. Yeah well, you know you're breaking down doors. I've also, you know, I've taken, many years ago, taken my daughter's doll and said I'm going to throw your doll down the stairs. She told her teacher about that.
Speaker 1:I was like, oh my God, we all have our moments, but what's interesting is if you can hold that and when you do decrease that load. What's interesting, what I found, is that then my daughter will actually do more things than she was doing before. Do you know what I mean? She'll voluntarily, maybe, put the clothes in the dryer, or she'll voluntarily do things because I'm not constantly. It's not in that conflict zone anymore, so it gives her an opportunity to shine more. So I think what's an interesting exercise which I've told people to do, is just write everything, Just track yourself for a day or two of what you are asking your child to do or nagging at, and it will scare you because you just don't even realize what's coming out of your mouth. Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had a boy come into my office and his dad came in with him and I, you know, always check in with the parent first. Like, oh, how is he doing? And like, oh, he's doing great. And I was like, well, this checklist of things that he has to do, and if he does them all he earns points and he can, you know when, get more time on the, on the device. And uh, so well, what, what's on the list? And he said, oh, and he listed out there were like 15, 20 things on this list. I was like, are you serious? Really, it seems like a really long list.
Speaker 2:So I brought his son in and his son was about 10 years old and and as soon as I brought up the topic of the list, the boy just threw himself on the couch. He was about to cry. He's like I can never get through the list, I never get all the points and I don't get the device. And so the boy was completely demoralized and hopeless. But dad thought, oh, this is working great, like there's not. There's a big disconnection here. And so I spent time connecting with the child and he opened up about what his struggles were and and where he was having push our kids right, but it was unreasonable to have 15, 20 things on the checklist. Maybe we need to start with four or five and master those and then we can move on. So I think if his dad had connected with him and really listened, he could have also understood that his son wasn't able, or felt demoralized and wasn't able to do all that he was asking. And it wasn't that the child was lazy, you know. He was simply struggling with executive functioning skills.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, which is back to our, our, our, our starting point is you got to understand that first. So you really have to change how, how you're viewing your child, and understanding where their brains are and how they're working, before you set any tasks or expectations, because without that lens you're missing the whole picture really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's very true. And when we're culling our conflicts, it's both the hardest and the most impactful, I think. Because I say it's the hardest because parents do feel like they're giving up or giving in, but once they realize, no, I'm actually becoming more focused and in control, and the chaos is reduced in the home they come back to me and they say, wow, that made such a big difference. Because the cost benefit is you're risking a meltdown, which takes a huge amount of time and energy from everybody to go through the whole cycle of the meltdown. But by remaining calmer, you're able to teach the kids more, they're able to internalize more logic and the parents are starting to work together. So they start communicating.
Speaker 2:If one parent sees the other start to fight a battle, they can say is this a green or a red quadrant? Where are we with this? And it kind of helps the other parent to pause and check themselves like, oh, yeah, you're right, okay, I can let go of this, and so the parents can start working together once they learn the, the process and the whatever code word they want to use. You know, I'd again tell them to pick something absolutely ridiculous. That'll help get you to think and laugh a little bit.
Speaker 1:Distraction. It works for us parents too. Definitely Well, Randy, thank you so much. It's been a really, really great discussion today and lots of food for thought for people, and I'll have all of your details in the show notes so people can get in contact with you. But I love to put my guests on the spot at the end of the podcast and ask what three top tips would you really give to parents who are maybe struggling with their ADHD children right now that they can use?
Speaker 2:Yeah, three top tips. I think that my top top tip would be to work on yourself right. Give yourself grace and work on your own self-care, because how we show up is just so important for the family and for the kids and for our relationships. So making sure that they're connecting with others deeply and meaningfully, doing things that are creative, getting good nutrition and sleep and exercise so that self-care as a parent, I think, is super important. Secondly, I see so many parents that feel alone because they won't talk about this struggle, and so finding a group that can support you as a parent is really, really important.
Speaker 2:And the third I would say is don't give up. There's hope, even when it seems like things are off the rails. Just keep persisting forward. Just keep persisting forward. Be consistent with what you're doing, because it takes time for these things to play out and my own story you know. There were times, as I shared, when I didn't know how the story was going to end, but we came out well on the other side, and it took a lot of effort, but just kept being persistent and moving forward.
Speaker 1:And you know what I think is beautiful is it's not just about our children developing and changing. You change so much as a parent. I mean, look, your entire career has gone in a different direction because of your children. You know mine as well. I mean, my daughter has changed me just as much as I'm trying to support and help her grow. So it's you know you're all on this beautiful journey, although sometimes it really feels like hell, you know.
Speaker 1:I think everything in life that's worth learning, or anytime that you really grow. There usually is a lot of pain involved, so when you're in those dark moments, realize that it's actually, it's good for you, you're getting somewhere.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, exactly, that's right. We as parents grow just as much. I, for the last seven, eight years, I've been leading a boys group through my local church and they're now high schoolers or actually seniors. They've just graduated and I always say that I've grown probably more than they have because of the questions they ask and the things we go through together and just doing life together. So it's been a great process for me. I love to be a lifelong learner and to keep changing and growing and, yeah, this is a new direction for me and I really enjoy helping and supporting parents.
Speaker 1:Well, it's been a pleasure to have you on the podcast. Thank you very much for your time today.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I've really enjoyed it. Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to Send Parenting Tribe. If you haven't already, please click on the link in the show notes to join us in the private Send Parenting WhatsApp community. It's been wonderful to be able to communicate with everyone in the community and for us to join together to help each other to navigate challenges and to also celebrate successes. Wishing you and your family a really good week ahead, Thank you.