SEND Parenting Podcast

EP 127: Parenting Your Neurodivergent Child with Diane Dempster, co-founder of Impact Parents

• Dr. Olivia Kessel • Episode 127

Share episode

We dive into a powerful conversation about parenting neurodivergent children from the inside out with guest Diane Dempster, coach, speaker, and co-founder of Impact Parents. Diane shares her personal journey as a "recovering yelling mom" and how she discovered that the way we show up as parents matters more than what we do.

• How the "Super Mom trap" catches neurodivergent parents who try to do everything for their children
• Why parents are "the missing link" in helping neurodivergent children thrive 
• Recognising when you're having a "wobbly" day and what to do about it
• Practical tools like the "3-5 challenge" for setting realistic expectations
• Questioning whether difficult behaviours are "naughty or neurological"
• Reframing self-care as "bringing your needs into the equation"
• The importance of asking for help and modelling this skill for your children
• Setting an intention to do something for yourself every day, no matter how small
• Breaking free from internal critical voices that may not even be your own

If you're looking for a safe space to connect with other parents navigating their neurodiverse journey, our private WhatsApp community offers support, insights and real conversations with like-minded parents who truly understand. Join the conversation today. You can find the link in the show notes.


Click here for Impact Parents

Click here for the SEND Parenting Private WhatsApp Community


www.sendparenting.com

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Send Parenting Podcast. I'm your neurodiverse host, dr Olivia Kessel, and, more importantly, I'm mother to my wonderfully neurodivergent daughter, alexandra, who really inspired this podcast. As a veteran in navigating the world of neurodiversity in a UK education system, I've uncovered a wealth of misinformation alongside many answers and solutions that were never taught to me in medical school or in any of the parenting handbooks. Each week on this podcast I will be bringing the experts to your ears to empower you on your parenting crusade. If you're looking for a safe space to connect with other parents navigating their neurodiverse journey, our private WhatsApp community offers support, insights and real conversations with like-minded parents who truly understand. Join the conversation today. You can find the link in the show notes.

Speaker 1:

In this episode we're diving into a powerful conversation about parenting neurodivergent children from the inside out. My guest is Diane Dempster, coach speaker, podcast host and co-founder of Impact Parents. As a mother of complex kids herself, diane knows firsthand how easy it is to fall into burnout while trying to do it all. I'm sure everyone can really relate to that. I know I can. In this episode we're going to explore how self-awareness of ourselves, compassion and actually realistic expectations can transform not only how we parent, but how we feel in the process. If you've ever felt like you were running on empty and I'm sure most of you have nerve-diverse children can really, really, really deplete you sometimes and also give you a lot of love.

Speaker 1:

This episode is for you. Let's get started. So welcome, diane. It is such a pleasure to have you on the Send Parenting podcast today. I love your podcast, parenting with Impact, and so I'm super excited to talk to you today about how using your terminology how we can parent from the inside out, because I know I am often so guilty of this. We put all of our energy, our time into our children and we can just get so run down and completely forget ourselves in the process, and that actually has an impact as well. So I'm so excited about our conversation today, but let's start out with hearing a little bit about your personal journey and what brought you into this work and why parenting impact means so much to you.

Speaker 2:

Well, you know. Thank you for the opportunity, olivia. I'm really glad to be here and to be talking to you and the folks that are listening. My backstory is I was one of those type A get it done.

Speaker 2:

Humans worked really hard in my 20s and was blessed with some quirky complex. That's the language we use at Impact Parents, kids and through the process, my son was diagnosed with ADHD, my daughter anxiety and ADHD. My mom came out of the closet and said oh yeah, I'm sure I've been ADHD all my life and you know, everything started making sense and what I found was I knew that they were wired differently, but I didn't know what the secret sauce was to really help them. And I found myself getting frustrated more than I wanted to, probably more with me than with them, but it's like this sort of why can't they? Just? Was kind of the theme. I claim myself as a recovering yelling mom and I think that that's you know, the way that I show up when I get dysregulated and overwhelmed is like control and raising my voice and getting frustrated. And so there's been this personal journey for me, and about the time my son was diagnosed, the International ADHD Conference was in Atlanta, georgia, which is where I live and had met through a mutual acquaintance, my now business partner, elaine Taylor-Klaus, and she lives here in Atlanta as well and we're like, well, let's get together at this conference and just talk and see what comes of it.

Speaker 2:

We're both coaches at the time and I was newly coaching and she had been coaching for about five years and when we started talking we were like the common thread we saw was that as parents, we didn't have the support that we needed to support our kids at that time and since 15 years ago there was a lot of resources and things pointed at kids, but there really was not much out there for parents, particularly diverse parents.

Speaker 2:

So Elaine is an adult with ADHD and she NeuroSpicy is the language we use she and her family are all NeuroSpicy. I was an adult without ADHD and what we recognized is that when we became coaches, we became much more of the kind of parents that our kids need, and so we were originally just going to do like a workshop or something and 15 years later, we are supporting parents all over the world, frankly, and we teach neurodiversity, informed coaching tools to parents, not so that we can become our kids coaches, because that's not what this is about. But coaching is an empowerment based modality and ultimately we want to raise and launch healthy, successful, happy kids who understand their strengths and their challenges or as independent as they can be, and we want to inspire them to that independence. And I think that what happens as parents is we kind of get stuck in oh, my kid needs more help than I wish they would. We don't know how to break out of that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely, and everything you say there just totally, completely resonates with me, especially the yelling mom.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, cheers, yelling mom.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, this morning my daughter was drinking Ribena, which is a fruit juice that is in the UK, for breakfast, and she knows she's not supposed to, and instead of being the mom I wished I was, which was like you know, that's not allowed, and you know, no, I just lost it and she goes. You know what? I really didn't want to go to school today, mommy, but now I do, just to get away from you, I was like, well, there's a fringe benefit to that one.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think it kind of takes us into the conversation about the inside out parenting. I think one of the things when we set out our you know where do we want to go, what's our vision for this company, One of the things we said was that parents are the missing link.

Speaker 2:

Right, it's just sort of as parents, we think we feel really disempowered because it's like our kid's, someone with a challenge. We can't fix another human being. We know that they're on their own path. I mean, whatever the language is that you use, but if, as parents, we recognize that the way that we're handling whatever the situation is really can make a difference, it kind of has this double-edged sword, which is okay, that's empowering. Empowering theoretically, I can control me In a perfect world.

Speaker 2:

There's this pressure of oh crap, I've got to do it, I've got to do this. I'm hoping somebody else can come in and work this and make this happen.

Speaker 1:

I've got to work on myself. I have no time for that.

Speaker 2:

So frankly and I'm guessing this is true with the folks who are listening, olivia, because you and I have already talked and we have a lot of the same sorts of things the people who are here are interested in doing our own work. I mean, that's really the invitation and the great piece of this. It's like, oh wait, I've been doing my own work. I was talking to a mom yesterday who is ready to jump in and get some support for herself around her kids and she said I spent the last year just really working on me and now it's time to jump in and go. How do I focus on me in the context of my parenting? And so I think that that's kind of the invitation to Inside Out is.

Speaker 1:

It's scary because it's us and it's empowering because it's us and I think that's a great gift our kids give us is that you really are in a burning platform where you need to figure out how to change maybe the way you were raised, maybe that you know what your go-to is, to be able to understand your child better, to be in that different place. But I think you know it all comes at a cost to parents as well, because you know, I don't know how it is. I think it's similar in the US with fighting for education. Fighting for you know, fighting for everything for your child is very time consuming and then trying to get your, your child, um, to the best place that they can be too, it can be really draining on the mom themselves and they can experience burnout. And I know you have spoken about that Um, it's kind of like a super mom trap. You know, like you're being the best, you call it the super mom trap. That's your language, not my language.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, it is. It's a super mom trap. And again, I'm a super mom. Right, I had the most executive function of anybody in my family. I was really organized, I could plan real well and for years I just like moved my family through their reality, Like I'm kind of kind of like a puppeteer although I don't want to don't ever tell my kids that I said that but it's just, you're orchestrating and and if you are a person with more executive function and you are a leader which I think most of us as moms are de facto, it really is more about how you're doing it than that you're doing it, and I think that that some of it is what you're doing, but a lot of it is how you're being.

Speaker 2:

And even a minute ago you said we have to write. It's this sort of I have to do this. And the minute we get to this place where it's like I have to do this, I don't have a choice, Our nervous systems start to feel unsafe, we get worked up, we get overwhelmed. I mean that's where all the struggle ends. That's where the struggle bus lives is when we get feeling like we're a trapped animal and we have like zero choice because the pressure feels so high and I don't want to pretend that this isn't hard, because all of us and I say us because I've got young adults now and but I've been where most of you've been this is hard stuff we're dealing with, and you are arguing with the school, you're fighting off opinions from society who think that you should just parent more firmly, or whatever the, or the stories in your head or whatever it is, and so the struggle is real, and the more we can see our relationship with a struggle as something to pay attention to, that's, that's where the juice is.

Speaker 1:

I think I guess, like, what would you say to moms? Like, what are some of the signs Cause it? You know that a mom is in burnout or a dad is in burnout and I know I don't want to exclude dads because you know, but it is a lot, it's a lot of time it falls on mom's shoulders but it, you know, it does also dads also feel this as well. What are some of, like, the signs that a mom can realize, you know? Because I think we always feel like, oh, we're not doing it enough. You know they're handling this, you know.

Speaker 2:

I'm going to open it up a little bit, and the language I use is how do we know when we're wobbly? Right, because burnout is one version of wobbly. Maybe it's extreme wobbliness. You woke up this morning, for whatever reason, like you were having a wobble this morning. I had a wobble this morning as well, but I wasn't.

Speaker 2:

I'm parenting my dog today, but, no, no kids, and so I think that that's the piece of it is to pay attention and to notice and to get into relationship with ourselves, to go, oh wait, this is one of those days that things are a little harder for me. This is one of those days that I'm feeling exhausted, right, and and so often, when we get into super mom mode, we don't even take a minute, we don't even like, we're just like plowing through, making it happen. I don't have room to take a breath, I don't have room, like I remember when my kids were really, really little even you're going to the bathroom and the doors open in the bathroom because you can't possibly be alone in the bathroom, and it's like, really, this is what it is, but it's sometimes it's just even gently, and I'm saying that this is like, really gently, looking at what's going on for me today and not to judge it. And that's where that's where the first trick happens is that we're like I don't have time to be frustrated, I don't have time to be tired, I don't have time. You know, it's like that's a.

Speaker 2:

That's a story, it's a fable, right? And? And the reality is that if your kid was really really sick, or if you got really really sick today and you needed to stay in bed to recover from some illness, you'd figure out how to make it happen. And so if we can create just even a little space between the have tos to go okay, wait, where where am I putting too much pressure on myself? That can be one of the first steps. To go okay, what do I really do with that space?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, just and and realizing that it's okay. Yes, you know, giving yourself that permission, that it's okay.

Speaker 2:

Well, and it's human nature to not right. I think that that's the other piece of it. It's like we all think we all do this right, we all on some level. Your flavor of it might look different than my flavor of it, but, as humans, our mind says I have to, I've got to, and I think that that's the piece for me.

Speaker 2:

I know that when my mind is going why can't they just? Or I have to, it's like all of that black and white sort of judgy thoughts. When those show up in my head, I know okay, wait a second. This is that moment where I need to recognize it's a signal. That's what they say.

Speaker 2:

If the overwhelm is a signal, I need to calm myself down. I get to calm myself down and then figure out what is the real problem I'm trying to solve. And I think that that's one of the things that I see parents get tripped up on all the time, because when we are worked up, whether it's with overwhelm or frustration, the tendency is either I've got to fix this and I've got to fix this now, and I'm the only one that can fix it, or I can't fix this, somebody else has to take care of this, like that's the fight or flighty kinds of things that happen. And so, again, it's this sort of paying attention to what's going on in your brain and body which requires us to slow down just even a little bit to be able to notice when those things happen.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and you bring up a really good point there, because it's kind of that setting of realistic expectations too that you need to understand with your child. And that was a big aha moment for me after my daughter got diagnosed with ADHD was understanding how her brain worked and then just totally ripping up what I expected of her and what I had been thinking was manipulation, avoidance, being naughty, and really had to reframe my entire framework.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that perspective shift is often the first one that happens and there's really two layers of it. We talk about setting realistic expectations, and if you've got a child with ADHD or autism or delays in executive function is, I guess, the language.

Speaker 1:

Which all of the neurodiversities do. So that's for anyone out there listening.

Speaker 2:

It tends to get linked a lot with ADHD, but it's across the board Exactly, and the research shows that these kids are 30%, which for most of our age kids are three to five years behind their peers in some areas of executive function development. And what's hard with these kids is like we see some of them are super smart, they're twice exceptional, they're gifted, they're brilliant at negotiating and arguing and whatever else, or they're really empathetic or they're really creative, and so we don't recognize that there are aspects of their development that are behind. And so we talk at Impact Parents about meeting them where they are and raising the bar from there and really kind of figuring out what is a realistic expectation for my child. How do I look at this differently so that I can set a realistic expectation? And I think that the other layer of it that we're really kind of focused on is how do I set a realistic expectation for myself, because these kids do need more help than they want? Then maybe society wants them, then maybe we want them to, and so there's a trap in there, because if we're trying to do everything to make up that gap of, okay, I've got to teach my kids all the things that they haven't yet learned and get them caught up.

Speaker 2:

It's not about getting them caught up. I mean, these kids are often going to have delays throughout their lives, so they're going to have things that are easy for them and things that are harder for them as adults. And it's really about helping them to see these are my strengths, these are my challenges. This is where I need help. I mean that's a life skill those of you listening like the number one life skill.

Speaker 2:

If I could go back and focus on me 15 years ago, it's like teach your kids that asking for help is okay and as moms and dads but moms particularly like if you're a super mom, you're doing everything and you're probably not asking for help because it's hard to ask for help, because it's easier to just do it yourself. Been there, it's a trap. But teaching the life skill of asking for help and helping our kids be okay with getting help and asking for help when they need it, and normalizing that. I can't tell you how many parents of 20 year olds are like, oh my gosh, if I had figured this out 10 years ago. So focus a little bit on that is my invitation to those of you who are listening.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think it's a good life lesson for all of us. When you need the help, also as a mom, reach out to somebody and get help, we tend to hold all of the stuff inside, as can our kids too, and then it ends up being a behavior also. If you take the foot off the pedal of your expectations, of what you think you know and what maybe your neighbor's child is doing or someone else in the school is doing, and you then realize that your kid is growing a little bit slower, do you know what I mean? Still growing, still will get there, but it's going to take longer.

Speaker 1:

And now that I'm sitting at, you know she's almost 14, you know it's amazing that once you start to get that patience and start to slow down, eventually they will gain these skills. If you can pitch it at the right level of what the expectations are that they can meet and succeed, then they won't always and there'll still be tantrums and there'll still be meltdowns. But you know that's part of growing up right. They do eventually get there and that's something that I think you you start to kind of or I was panicking at when she was like 10, 11, that she was never going to get. Anywhere. You know what I?

Speaker 2:

mean I always say, like every six months they're six months older, right? And it's like if you look at where they were six months ago and you say, oh wow, look at what they're doing now that they weren't yet able to do six months ago. I was on the phone with a mom, the other day and she's panicking because her kid is like going to have to go off to college someday and I'm like okay your kid is 10.

Speaker 2:

But it's so. But I think that that's the point is that we do get worked up. I mean, it's like I remember one of the first clients we had. She's like my kid is going to be living in squalor because she can't remember to throw away her potato chip bag after she finishes her chips sitting in front of the television, right, and there's so many different things we could be focused on and I think that that's where we another place we get tripped up.

Speaker 2:

So we're trying to do everything and we say you can do everything, but you can't do it all at once. And so we teach a concept called taking aim, which is really narrowing in and saying okay, what am I focusing on right now? Am I focusing on sassy behavior? Am I focusing on helping my kid remember to turn in their homework? Am I focusing on helping them to navigate big emotions? But if we just pick one thing instead of the 7000 things, it helps us to calm down because we know where we're paying attention. It helps our kids to calm down, honestly, because we're not nagging about absolutely everything to them. I can't tell you how many like seven.

Speaker 2:

If you were to nag your kid about everything that, that is hard for them. Most of us end up in a situation where all we're doing is nagging and we don't feel like we're even in relationship with our kids anymore. So a lot of it again. You said this slow down, right, slow down and have faith and trust. You've got five years to figure this out. You've got. And I would tell you, when I had that same sort of panic when my kid went off to college, there was so much that my kid didn't know yet when she went off to college. But she learned it once she was in college because she was ready to learn it. And I think that that's the key here is that we're trying to teach kids stuff before they're ready to learn it. We're just exhausting ourselves, probably unbalanced and pressured for them, which creates all kinds of conflict and lack of trust and all the things that we really don't want to have in our relationships with our kids.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it's interesting, when it is the right time, how they can step up to those challenges as well, Like your child in university or my child now being able to cook breakfast for herself. You know who knew an air fryer could revolutionize your life. You know it's breakfast for herself. Who?

Speaker 2:

knew an air fryer could revolutionize your life. I was at a luncheon and someone without a NeuroSpicy kid was like my 10-year-old is making lunch for herself and I'm like holy cow, that's amazing. And they're like, oh, it's finally. And I'm like, yep, that's great.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm so proud to. I mean, I had exactly the same experience with my friend. I mean my friend's child, like her youngest child, would make lunches for everyone, you know, and apparently that is the way it is with neurotypical kids. I've never had a neurotypical kid so I have no idea.

Speaker 1:

I was delighted. You know showering everything is being delayed, but I think once you realize that this is normal, it is not abnormal, it's absolutely normal, and that they will get there eventually, you know you need to help them, you need to support them, you need to give them the tools to be successful, but they will get there.

Speaker 2:

So I'm going to. Can I teach a tool, olivia?

Speaker 1:

Because the tool is two here, like.

Speaker 2:

So the first one is what we call the three to five challenge. And so if you're struggling with your kid's behavior and you're like, why can't they just dot, dot, dot If you see how old they are? Because I say they're 15 and you take off between three and five years. So 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so what would a realistic expectation be in this situation for a 10 year old? And and not necessarily that you're like, okay, I'm going to give up on everything. But just as that paradigm shift to go, okay, if they were younger, how would I be supporting this? And if you've got, you know, a 20 year old, it is 30%, so it might be more like seven years. And if it's eight o'clock at night and they're exhausted and overwhelmed and hungry, you might need to take off a few extra years. But it's that the goal here is the paradigm shift of oh, wait, if I don't hold the bar here, how do I really see where they are in the area of independence? Not so you can just leave them there. But it's like if I know, okay, wait, they can do this with four reminders, maybe I can focus on okay, how do I get to two reminders, or how do I help them come up with a system to remind themselves instead of me reminding them, because this may be a human that needs reminders to be successful?

Speaker 1:

because there were For the rest of their life. I mean, I certainly need them.

Speaker 2:

I do too, like my alarm's gonna go off here in a minute when we finish our recording. But I think that that's it. And then the second tool. You were talking about naughty behavior earlier. We say, is it naughty or is it neurological? And again it's a perspective shift and it's not that we know for sure that the behavior isn't naughty.

Speaker 2:

But if I'm looking at the behavior, say I've got a kid who's being rude and disrespectful, and if I think they're just being rude and disrespectful, I'm going to come at them with defensiveness or punishment or consequences or frustration. And if I can go Hmm, wait a second, what's going on with this kid? Maybe it has something to do with their neurodiversity. Maybe they're having a big emotion that they're having a hard time navigating. Maybe they're having a hard time with frustration management, maybe that you know it's. Maybe they're in a shame cycle because they can't figure out how to do what they want to be able to do. And so if I can say, hmm, there's some aspect to this that does have to do with their neurodiversity, then I can slow down and create some space and bring in some compassion, which helps me tell my kid in a very different way.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and you know it's interesting because that advice is so good, not just for our neuro spicy kids, but you know it's good. Usually, when someone gets angry at you or says something mean to you, it often has nothing to do with you. My daughter I had someone being really awful on the phone to me in the car and after I hung up my daughter goes mommy, I bet they've had a really bad day and we're really upset about something else. And I said you know what, god, you're good. I said you know you're right, because I hadn't said anything that would warrant that from her and she, you know she can pick up on it. That's her superpower is having this empathy. But you know, I think that being able to understand what's underlying why they're saying that or why they're behaving I don't think any of us just say nasty things for nastiness sake. When we're upset, there's always usually some-.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, something underneath it and what you're calling is curiosity. It's just sort of how do we get curious about what's going on? And curiosity is not just about coming up with the first thing, because parents say, well, I was curious, they just like playing games video games more than they like doing their homework. Yes, that may be true, but there may also be something else going on. So let's keep asking what else might be going on. Are they in avoidance mode? Are they feeling stuck? Are they feeling is their self-esteem, you know, knocked down and to be able to go?

Speaker 2:

Okay, what are a couple things that might be going on here with curiosity? So, again, the goal here is to hold it lighter so that we can get creative and really focus on what's the problem I'm trying to solve. How do I help my kid get to a place where they'll partner with me to solve the problem, instead of just walking around and fix it mode, which is where we started this conversation. It's like we all do it, like just like, got to get it done, got to take care of it, and it's exhausting it is.

Speaker 1:

And that brings it back to like parenting from the inside out as well, because to be able to be that parent with curiosity and compassion, you really need to be in a good place yourself, because otherwise you can't do it, you know. And that brings into us like how do we emotionally regulate? How do we have self-care? And I've had a lot of people who've come on the podcast and also a lot of listeners as well. They almost view self-care as a stressor, do you know? Like, ah, you know, there's no time for that.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think that the so the way that I've started talking about self-care is, in fact, I want a new word for it. If you've got a new word for it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2:

Because people just don't like it. Self-care we think of we're talking about massages and pedicures and going to the gym and stuff like that, and that's really not what we're talking about. And so self-care can be self-awareness, Self-care can be self-compassion right, as a parent of complex kids, it's bringing your needs into the equation is the way.

Speaker 1:

I want to say it right.

Speaker 2:

It's a sort of yes, your kid has a lot of things going on and, yes, they demand probably more of your attention than their peers do. And if you're doing that at the sacrifice of taking care of yourself all the time, it eventually will take a toll on yourself. And the other side of it is kind of how you are looking at, how you're showing up, and it's a sort of so many of us have inner critics that are just so judgy and harsh and the voice in our head like if we are worried that other people are judging our families because of our kids' behavior, chances are the voice in our head is even louder, judging our family for our kids' behavior, and so it's recognizing that that's part of what's going on here. And whether it's a pattern you heard from your family growing up or whether it's a judgment that you have, that you really secretly are frustrated with yourself because you used to do the same sort of thing. I mean all those things I remember really distinctly.

Speaker 2:

I used to have a thing about being late to school and trying to get everybody up and out the door and all the things I mean. A lot of us struggle with that and I recognized at some point that the voice in my head wasn't even mine, it was my dad's, and my dad had this high value around being prompt and being responsible and we need to be on time. And it's like, diane, we need to be on time. And I'm like my dad is still talking in my head and I'm parenting my kids and it's this sort of what do I want my agreement to be? Around? Getting to school on time.

Speaker 2:

I've got complex kids that some days it's almost impossible to get them out the door on time. I've got complex kids that some days it's almost impossible to get them out the door on time. And if I'm holding that as the bar because of something that's going on in my head and I'm not even aware of that so that's the inside out part is taking space to be gentle with ourselves, to be kind to ourselves and to even know what's going on with us in the equation, right? So if you're frustrated with your kid, what's what's going on for you that's creating that frustration?

Speaker 1:

And so when you told your dad to be quiet, what happened with your mornings?

Speaker 2:

I don't even know that. I told my dad to be quiet, but I'm like I don't need to listen to that voice anymore because I'm not the one that's going to be late to school, right? It's a sort of it's no-transcript. The last thing he'd do is he'd get out the door of the car is, look at me and say I love you and he still is really, as a young adult, is still really good at this, but it was it. We lose track of that, and so if I'm compromising timeliness with connection with my kids, I want to be aware that I'm doing that because, ultimately, I want my kids to know that they're loved and have fun and joke and listen to music on the way to school and not just be sweating and frustrated because we've been fighting for the last two hours to get them out the door. Right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Uh, that, that is. Yeah, that is the most important piece that you can have. My daughter and I actually, after our fight this morning, we started to laugh with each other just how funny it was. And she's like mommy, this is pretty funny. I'm like it is pretty funny and that's the piece of it.

Speaker 2:

It's like there's a finding way, and I think that you're saying that this is pretty funny. What you and your daughter did was normalize our reactivity, and I think that that's a really important thing, that if we model for our kids that losing our cool or getting overwhelmed or whatever your version of a wobble is, is a normal human reaction. Oh wait, here I am being human again. I'm like totally distracted by my phone right now. Wow, that's, you know. Okay, what do I want to be doing right now? So just, really, again, it's that paying attention, knowing that we're we're doing the normal human things, and modeling for our kids that we can choose and notice to do things differently.

Speaker 1:

And I think the part and parcel that I know for me, like through COVID and then out of COVID for a couple of years and then with the demands of my child, it's so easy to almost become a prisoner in your house with where you go and your life becomes smaller and smaller and smaller and actually breaking out of that can be quite difficult. It was quite difficult for me. But you take small steps and it's not really self-care, it's just putting yourself back on the agenda. You know, like getting finding a babysitter that you can, that can, can be with your child so that you can go out, even if you know I've gone out and just sat in the park.

Speaker 2:

You know, just have a moment you know, it's the little steps and I remember um really distinctly. So I went through the empty nesting thing in the last three or four years and had this great opportunity to go. Hmm, what do I like to do If I had an extra hour? What would I spend it doing? Because, like for years and years and years, you just don't have that. And so, taking a minute and to remember yourself in your early 20s or whatever age you were before you had kids, it's like what were the things that brought you joy? What are the things that you like to do? And even just recognizing that I really love to be out in nature, okay, great, let's make sure that, no matter what, I get to the playground with my kid every week and I'm sitting on the bench and I'm just like breathing in the air, whatever it is for you that really feeds you. But even if you're doing it in the midst of parenting that you know, ok, this is for me.

Speaker 2:

I had moms in my circle who the rule in their car was mom. Mom got to pick the music Right and so you can ride in the car, and you can ride in the car and you can have your own earbuds if you want to, but mom gets to play whatever music mom wants to play, because that's the time that she's going to really relax and enjoy something that she enjoys. So again, it's a sort of finding a way to be in your family and take care of yourself. Is takes creativity and it takes awareness, but it isn't always hard.

Speaker 1:

And I think it's also important for us to teach it to our children, which has been an interesting journey for me, as I've started to take these steps in towards having that independence, or having that time for you a little bit, and teaching my daughter that that's okay Sometimes. It's okay that I need some time as well, and she still doesn't like it very much, but it's, it's a slow process. You know, I just want you to be there all the time, but no, you know it's, it's good for them too. It's modeling good behavior for when they grow up too. Because I don't know about your mom, but my mom did everything, you know.

Speaker 2:

No, it's true, and it goes back to that conversation asking for help. It's like if we're modeling, making things happen and getting things done, particularly for those of us who are not neuro spicy or people who have. Even those of us who are neuro spicy, who are over functioning, we teach our kids that being an adult means like doing everything and making it all happen. And if our kids are constantly falling short, that's where they start to develop frustrations and self-esteem issues and shame cycles and all those things that kind of live in those deep dark crevices, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

What would you say now to any parents who are listening, who are like feeling totally exhausted, disconnected and are feeling that they are doing it all wrong? If you could just give me, give us you've given us some good strategies, but any strategy you could give that they could just start using today.

Speaker 2:

Well, the first thing I want to say is I see you right, it's this sort of and even that language, I'm doing it all wrong. It is like there's that extra layer we put on ourselves that it's like, oh darn it, and I'm like, and I'm not, I'm not taking care of myself. Okay, it's human nature, it's normal. It especially when you're a busy parent we do put ourselves further down on the list, but then it's so, it's recognizing that and then it's saying okay, what is my intention here? So start with your intention. My intention is to do something for me every day, even if it's just picking one song on the radio, even if it's just. I'm going to make what I want for dinner tonight, even if it's, you know what I'm going to. I'm going to put them in front of the television for an hour so that I can sit and read a book, or I'm going to stay up an hour later and take care of myself. Whatever it is.

Speaker 2:

But choosing something for yourself and setting the intention every day to do it. And then, if you don't get a chance to do it, don't beat yourself up for it, don't make it one more thing to do, but just start by saying I want to do. I want to focus on me more and my kids. I'm going to change my language. I'm going to focus on me a little more and I want to focus on my kids a little less and then just begin to watch and experiment, and I think that's the other thing I haven't really said. Part of what has been so helpful for me is if I get out of the right, wrong, good, bad game and go okay, this is an experiment. What do I want to try for the next week? And I'm right now? One of the experiments I'm doing is I'm reconnecting with the gratitude journal and every night before I go to bed, I'm just like writing five things that I'm grateful for, and if it's a hard day, it's like a really soft pillow. That's as far as I can get.

Speaker 1:

I'm in bed.

Speaker 2:

I'm in bed, so it's experimenting with different things and noticing. Maybe next week you're going to experiment with getting some more movement, maybe you're going to take responsibility of walking the dog and get outside and say, okay, you stay inside and I'm going to go walk the dog and I'm going to be by myself while I walk the dog. But just trying little different things and noticing and paying attention to what makes you feel better, what makes you stressed out, you know, and just become more aware of what's going on in your brain and body, along with all the attention you're paying for your kids. And don't make this one more thing to do. Just make this something you get to do.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it's very similar to kind of what you do with your child. You see what works, you see what doesn't work. You have to be flexible. So I think most moms know how to do this. They just haven't applied it really to themselves so much and the no good, no bad kind of scenario. And there's stuff you can also do with your kids. Like you, you've brought to mind the gratitude thing. I've been using it with my daughter, cause she's had a lot of anxiety and a lot of negative thoughts. She's a teenager and those come up a lot and I'm like let's think about what you're grateful for, and so we do that in the evening and she's like well, I have nothing to be grateful for refocuses the negative talk that we all have in our heads.

Speaker 2:

We all have it in our heads and I think that's important. Our children do and we do, and what you said earlier I'm going to reiterate is that we need to model for our kids. We get to model for our kids. There's this opportunity to teach them these life skills that we want them to have when they're in their 20s and their 30s and their 40s, because our parents didn't know to model a lot. Most of us did not have parents who modeled this sort of stuff for us. They modeled get it done, make it happen. And so now we've kind of got this brain worm of get it done, make it happen.

Speaker 1:

Got to clean it out, pull it out. I've got to clean it out, pull it out. Here we go. Well, I want to thank you so much, but I love to end all of my podcasts with you giving us three top tips, and you've given us a lot of tips today, so hopefully you can come up with three other top tips that my listeners can take away with them after listening to this podcast.

Speaker 2:

So the first one is be gentle with yourself. We're fighting human nature here, and so it's not an easy. It's just like we can't expect our kids to change overnight. We can't expect us to change overnight. And so be gentle and experiment and be kind to yourself in the process.

Speaker 2:

The second tip is really the going back to asking for help. It's this sort of be willing to ask even for a little bit of help. I think that even with young kids, there are things that they can do, and a lot of kids are motivated by being helpful. And if you've got a kid who's feeling that way, give them the space, let them put the dishes in the dishwasher and don't go back and rearrange them the way that you want them to be arranged, you know. So ask for help. And I think that the third tip because we're talking about about ourselves and super mom syndrome and is is just to to pay attention like shine the flashlight on you every once in a while, you know, even if it's just once a day, to go okay, what's going on with me right now, because it is easy to get lost in the shuffle of this whole thing. So those are my tips.

Speaker 1:

I think those are great tips and actually great advice throughout the entire podcast. So thank you so much for your time today. It's much appreciated, and all your details and how people can reach out to you will be included in the show notes because I think parents will be interested to learn more and to look at the resources you have available. Great.

Speaker 2:

Thanks so much, Lydia.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening. Send Parenting Tribe. If you haven't already, please click on the link in the show notes to join us in the private Send Parenting what's Up community. It's been wonderful to be able to communicate with everyone in the community and for us to join us in the private Send Parenting what's Up community. It's been wonderful to be able to communicate with everyone in the community and for us to join together to help each other to navigate challenges and to also celebrate successes. Wishing you and your family a really good week ahead, thank you.