SEND Parenting Podcast

EP 143: Stop Mothering Me! Understanding Your Teen’s Push for Independence

• Dr. Olivia Kessel

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Half-term chaos, slammed doors, sharp words—if that sounds familiar, you are not alone. In this episode, Dr Olivia Kessel sits down with teen expert Kim McCabe to unpack why your once-snuggly child suddenly bristles at “How was your day?” and how to respond without losing your cool or your connection. From the teenage brain’s rebuild to the unique load neurodiverse teens carry, we explore what is really happening under the surface—and the simple shifts that can change everything at home.

Kim explains why after-school meltdowns often land on parents, how masking drains emotional capacity, and what co-regulation looks like in real life. Together, we cover how to use short validating phrases instead of lectures, hold boundaries that reflect your core values, and create safe outlets for big feelings that do not harm anyone. You will hear why permissiveness can feel like indifference to teens, how to choose a few non-negotiables, and when to step back so your young person can save face and recover their balance.

We also share low-pressure ways to rebuild closeness: monthly parent–teen “dates,” visiting their world first—whether that is gaming, football, memes, or TikTok—without judgment, and narrating your own self-regulation to model coping. Whether you are parenting girls or boys, mums or dads, neurotypical or neurodiverse, the principles hold true: be the parent, team up with other adults, and protect your own capacity. Calm and loving is your superpower—but it needs fuel.

If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a parent who needs a boost, and leave a quick review so more families can find these tools. And if you are ready for deeper support, check the show notes for details on the Recharge and Connect SEND Summit—join us in person or via live stream.

💬 Resources Mentioned in This Episode

If today’s conversation with Kim McCabe resonated with you, you can find out more about her work at Rites for Girls
, where she supports parents and teens through the transitions of adolescence.
Explore her brilliant book, From Daughter to Woman: Parenting Girls Safely Through Their Teens
, and discover her Weekend Retreat for Mothers of Daughters
— a beautiful space to reconnect, reflect, and parent with greater awareness and ease.

Join our growing community of Warrior Mums inside the ADHD Warrior Mum’s Recharge Station

— your space for support, connection, and calm.

Dr Olivia:

Welcome to the Send Parenting Podcast. I'm your neurodiverse host, Dr. Olivia Kessel, and more importantly, I'm mother to my wonderfully neurodivergent daughter, Alexandra, who really inspired this podcast. As a veteran in navigating the world of neurodiversity in a UK education system, I've uncovered a wealth of misinformation, alongside many answers and solutions that were never taught to me in medical school or in any of the parenting handbooks. Each week on this podcast, I will be bringing the experts to your ears to empower you on your parenting crusade. Welcome back. I'm Dr. Lavia Castle, and if you're listening right now, it's half term, isn't it? Kids are home, routine is gone, your sanity is disappearing. I know mine is. And honestly, you're probably listening to this while juggling in the chaos. So first, thank you. Thank you for showing up yourself right now, even in the middle of this madness. Here's what I wanted to say. You don't have to keep managing your neurospicy children completely alone. The EHCP battles, the money warriors, the neuroparenting on an empty tank. That's not how it has to be. Which is why I'm so glad you're hearing this episode right now, because I'm hosting something on November 11th that's literally designed for the exhaustion you're feeling today. It's the Recharge and Connect Send Summit, a morning to afternoon during school hours, where we will meet six experts who are going to give you real concrete strategies for the EHC battles and the changes that are coming in government that you need to know. They know what's happening. They're connected to our MPs and our government. Financial planning so that you stop worrying about your child's future and actually can sleep at night. And then some real neuroparenting tactics for when you're running on empty and others that feel just like you. You'll get a lovely lunch, a chance to network, and a room full of moms who completely understand what you're going through. Can't get to Henley? I understand it's not easy. We're also going to live stream this so you can watch it from anywhere and you'll get a recording for only 20 pounds. The same experts, the same transformation. You are missing out on the networking and the lunch, but at least you get to experience it. Here's the thing though. I know it's half term. I know you're exhausted, but I'm asking you to do something just for you this week. Book your spot before the madness takes over. Go to www.sendparenting.com backslash event right now or bookmark it after this episode. I won't judge. It'll also be in the show notes. But first, let's dive into today's episode. Because today we're going to be talking about teenagers and neurodiversity and what we can do as a parent to survive it, which I think if you've got teenagers at home with you right now, is going to be super important. We're going to be talking with Kim Micab, who is an expert in this. She has coached and counseled parents and teenagers for years. Her advice is so helpful, and I know this session will resonate with you. Here we go. So, Kim, welcome back to the Send Parenting Podcast. The last time we spoke, you helped us understand the challenges that girls face as they're entering puberty and they're making that transition from primary to secondary school. But today we're really going to change the lens and look at parents, especially mothers, who can feel so lost when their once sweet child that loves to hug them suddenly starts pushing them away. And I know I am currently like in this. I am living it with my 14-year-old daughter. And it's it's really hard because that connection is so different and it feels lost. So I'm super happy we're going to unpick this, why it's so hard, and then also how we can navigate to calmer waters and understand what's going on. And I mean, I know it's, you know, everyone always goes, oh, having teenage daughters is so difficult. It's very challenging. And I wanted to ask you from your experience, what are some of the common struggles that parents face as their daughters enter adolescence? I mean, I have a good idea from my 14-year-old, but uh I'd like to get your take on it.

Kim McCabe:

Fear. I'd say fear. Um we and almost anticipate that there's going to be problems, whether it be because we remember what we were like as teenagers, or we hear, you know, we hear so much kind of negative press about teenagers. Um, or we hear all the things that can go wrong. And so for many parents, um, I find they'll often come to me long before the the teenage years, but their main concern is fear of the teenage years. Um, and you know, we know that as parents our role has to change, the way that we parent has to change. We're not exactly sure how, and we're not we're not clear on you know what are the things that are the important things, what should I really hold firm on and what should I let slide? Um, and particularly if um uh many parents find that communication kind of channels change and become perhaps more bumpy at this stage, and communication through this stage is so important, but it does change, and so being able to change with our children becomes really important.

Dr Olivia:

Um it's almost like a gear shift, isn't it? It's a gear shift that uh and it's there's no manual for how to do the gear shift for either either one of you, really. And I know like, you know, it can feel so personal when you get this change in tone and behavior from from your child. You know, how does a parent, you know, understand what's happening from, I guess, like a developmental standpoint in the teenage brain to help us understand and feel less rejected and less, you know, um like we're losing control, I guess.

Kim McCabe:

Well, it it is really useful to have an understanding of what's going on inside of them. Um, the best understanding is if we can remember ourselves, um, if we can actually just take ourselves back and remember how how kind of um the world seems to change suddenly. You become more self-aware and so you become really self-conscious, you are easily overwhelmed. I mean, the teenage brain is under construction, particularly the prefrontal cortex. So teenagers feel things more intensely, either than we do or than they did before. So what seems like nothing to us and a small thing really will be experienced as massive to them. Um, they're also having to kind of into their future be aware that they're going to have to manage without you, they're going to have to leave everything that feels safe and secure, home, school, family, and go out there on their own. So there's that real sense of kind of um kind of feeling like, oh God, I've got to be able to, I've got to do this all on my own. And there are huge pressures on teens now, certainly more than I would say I had on me when I was growing up. So um there's you know huge academic pressure, um way more than we had. There's financial pressures. I hear children talking about worrying about finances in a way that I was so unaware when I was growing up. And then, of course, everything that that comes, additional pressures from social media. And so it's right, and go ahead. Go on.

Dr Olivia:

And and then it's also, you know, what with my audience and listeners, it's there, there are a lot of them are neurodiverse, and you know, that prefrontal cortex is a little bit delayed, but yet they're in the situation that they're they're having the hormones, they're having these pressures at school. So it's almost like a it becomes an even more volatile kind of place.

Kim McCabe:

This is when um, as parents to neurodiverse children, it really helps us to understand how an experience it is for them. Very easily overwhelmed and overstimulated, um, need some help to understand as relationships between their peers become more nuanced and more and more um delicate, kind of having support in that. And for many, many um teenagers, but but particularly girls, this is often the time around sort of preteen teen years, as puberty is arriving, that they they become personally aware for the first time that maybe there's something about them that is different, and often that can lead them to feeling like there's something wrong with them, they don't fit in, suddenly the friendships are really problematic. So, for as a parent or a neurodiverse child, um, we need to find out some ways of how we can help walk alongside our child, and and that's really challenging when suddenly they are treating us like rubbish or being rude or being or or pushing us away, and particularly if you felt if you felt close to your child, you know, up until now, it can feel like a real betrayal. Um, it can also trigger painful memories for us. And I think that's often what makes parenting a teen really difficult because it takes us back to some of the wounds or the experiences that were challenging for us as teenagers, and we so want to protect our children from them, but actually our children's behavior towards us as parents can actually trigger us back into those wounds. And yet we have to be the adult. We need to learn how not to take it personally, whether it they're you know their rudeness or their shut-offness or their pushing us away, and just remember how it feels to just be all over the place.

Dr Olivia:

So it's that empathy and remembering kind of putting yourself in in their shoes, if you can remember that far back, which we all can, because it it they they are very it's um you feel things, so you remember things, I think, from your teenage years so well. And yeah, I I have more empathy, I think, for my parents as well.

Kim McCabe:

And then also to know that you know, often we get the worst of it. We get the worst of their behavior because we are their safe place. So things might have built up through the day, particularly our neurodiverse children for whom being at school all day is a lot, and they'll often walk in the door and whew and they let you know, and we're often the ones that get their irritation, their anger, their their kind of abruptness, their rudeness, or whatever, how whatever form it takes. And it's hard to take that as a compliment, and yet that is what it is. It's that, oh finally they can let down their guard, they can not need to mask, and they can actually let out some of the feelings that are pent up so they are not personal to us. It's what's built up through the day, it's that they, you know, they may be carrying feelings like I'm wrong, I don't fit in, the world's a hard place, and I don't, you know, everyone wants something of me. And so us just saying, How's your day, or can you kind of um take your uniform off before you start anything else can feel like that's the last straw to them and we get it, but actually it's a sign that we're doing things right. Um and then the hard job of parenting starts to remember I need to be the safe place, I need to be the place where they can let their feelings out, and I need to not take it personally.

Dr Olivia:

And that's you know, it's it's the way you describe that is so great because it shifts kind of the lens that you look at it with. Because it I know with my daughter it feels like I'm walking on eggshells or waiting for the grenade, like a you know, a completely innocuous like comment can just, you know, spiral out of control, and then you know, it just gets worse and worse. And, you know, knowing that that's really a compliment, that she's releasing her stress is a better way of looking at it. But at the same time, like, and I'll use myself as an example again this morning, when you have someone being so rude to you, it's hard to, you know, where are the boundaries there with that's not okay to speak to someone like that, you know? Um, it is Absolutely.

Kim McCabe:

It's not that we just let them go. Um, but we have to remember that they chances are they've been holding on and holding in. And as we know, that's not healthy. Um girls particularly will often direct it back in on themselves, and that's where some of the self-harming behavior or the disordered eating or the sort of shutting down can come from, um, or it can become kind of outwardly aggressive. So, whilst we want to enable them to express how they're feeling, um it also we're also wanting to teach them about regulation, about what's appropriate and what's not. So having a good cry is often a good thing, or a good rant, or a good kind of um, you know, something physical to get it out, but it mustn't harm them and it mustn't harm anyone else. And I mean that both physically and verbally, mentally, emotionally. So whilst we might often I find, you know, first of all, when it when it first comes is just to kind of ground myself so that I feel safe and strong. Um, because the little person in me feels attacked, but actually to remember I'm an adult here, I'm strong, I'm safe, I can do this, and then just to see that, you know, watch the child because often, so often, particularly in the teenage years, children lose their words. They they they and this is part of the brain change. It's really hard for them to put into words. So it's really true often when we say, What's going on? And they go, I don't know. They really don't know how to put it in words, but they do have other ways of communicating through their behavior. So as their parents, we need to become the interpreter. And I have yet to meet a parent who isn't a world expert on their child, you can just see the look on their face or notice the clenched fists and and and kind of go, Oh God, the tornado's coming, the grenade is about to go. And rather than kind of going, Oh, what can I do to make sure the grenade doesn't go off, to recognise that maybe some sort of expression needs to happen, but within boundaries of you know, not not doing or saying anything that they will ultimately then regret. So we're also keeping them safe from themselves, as well as, you know, guiding them in what's appropriate. But of course, often when the it first goes off, it it won't be appropriate. And that's the point at which at first I just ground myself and I feel like I'm kind of let the onslaught come, just talking to myself and just, you know, sometimes it's even just to kind of go, this isn't about you, don't take it personally, you're okay, you're safe. And then after a few, you know, a moment or two, um and again, you know, often children don't want a lot of words at this point, so they and they certainly don't want analysis, um, but just to kind of go, I can see you're really upset. And often it's good to go meet them. So rather than being, oh, I can see you're really upset, that will often be really, you know, so to meet them where they are, I can see you're really het up here. Um or or, you know, if they're if they're you know, all withdrawn, you know, to kind of go, to go to that place in a way and like it feels like you're a million miles away. I imagine whatever might be going on. So we try and put it, give them the words, but not in paragraphs, in short sentences. I imagine you've had a hard day at school. It's not okay to talk to me like that, but I am here to listen when you're ready. So that we kind of we we make ourselves available, but not as a doormat to be walked all over. And and our bodies will tell us, you know, when what where those boundaries are. You know, we you know, just the same. Toddlers and teens have so much in common. You know, just as you learned with your toddler that, you know, when they I hate you, mummy, I hate you, I hate you, I want you to die. You know, we didn't take that personally. We knew that they didn't really mean that. And it's just the same with our teenagers. They are wrestling for ways to express the extremeness of their feelings. Um but and and and we let them do that for a moment and then we and then we kind of set the boundaries. It's like, okay, I can see you've, you know, do you need to go and jump on the trampoline? Do you need to get on your bike and round ride round the corner? Do you need a bit of space in your room? Um, I'm gonna go make you a cup of tea and then I'm gonna come and bring it to you. And if you feel like talking, I really want to hear how it's been. But if not, that's fine.

Dr Olivia:

And not go into like that solution mode or trying to fix it in that moment. That's like the worst thing you can possibly do.

Kim McCabe:

It's so disrespectful. It's so disrespectful, you know, to try and fix. Um, I think often this transition we make as as parents, it can really be useful sometimes with our teenagers to think, would I say that to my best friend? You know, if a best friend was sharing something, would we immediately come in with, oh, I know what you should do? Um no, we we we acknowledge that they've probably got the answers themselves and we think, what do they need from me to reach that? And often it's not instant. Often, first of all, people just need to feel heard and seen and understood, not fixed.

Dr Olivia:

Yeah, and I think that your tip there to to ground yourself and say this is not happening to me personally, then regulates your autoimmune or your your uh nervous system's response to fight or flight kind of I'm being attacked. You you take yourself out of that equation, and then you're a much calmer person can be able to understand where they're coming from, which I'm I'm gonna use that actually. I'm sure I'll have an opportunity this afternoon.

Kim McCabe:

And of course, you know, as in so much in parenting, you know, our children learn by copying us.

Dr Olivia:

Yeah.

Kim McCabe:

So, you know, how do we role model here? Um, and of course, we're all gonna mess up because we're human beings. Um, and so there will be days when we're stressed or we don't have capacity, and we fly off the handle too. And then, you know, as quickly as we can catch ourselves and say, actually stop, I need a moment. Um I'm not I'm not helping you here. Um I'm just gonna go and have a walk down the bottom of the garden, or I'm just gonna go and friend phone a friend, or whatever it is that we need to do, and then I'll be back.

unknown:

Yeah.

Kim McCabe:

So that you know, don't put too much pressure on ourselves to be perfect. Who wants a perfect parent? It that would be a horrible thing. Then you couldn't make mistakes as children. But it's how we then catch ourselves, apologize, repair, move on.

Dr Olivia:

And that also models that behavior for your child who's also going to, or your teenager, don't call them a child either, uh, would be my advice. Um my daughter loved to say, Stop mothering me, stop mothering me. Um, which I think is, you know, it's it's it's giving them that autonomy also to make decisions for themselves and switching that, shifting that kind of them wanting independence, them wanting to have a stay. And it's it's it's very different as a parent. You know what I mean? You've you've had a very different experience with your child up to this point.

Kim McCabe:

And I love what your daughter's doing. And this is what our our young people do so well, is they actually tell us what they want. So when she's saying, Stop mothering me, um, what I would do is get really curious, not in the moment, because she's triggered and she's in it and she's on one, but later kind of being, you know, when you say to me, stop mothering me, what exactly is it you want me to stop? Because I want to do that. I want to understand better what it is you're not wanting in that moment from me. Because of course, what stop mothering, you know, we can imagine what that means, um, but we don't actually know. And you might be surprised.

Dr Olivia:

Yeah, no, that's a very good idea. Uh, we'll do that on our evening walk to this this afternoon. It's always a good way. Um now we've talked about boundaries with with teenagers as well, without damaging kind of like that trust that we have of our teenagers and that connection. And it it feels like that that's kind of a fine line of navigating. What kind of tips would you give to parents who are traversing that?

Kim McCabe:

So um this is really big because there is no answer and there is no guidebook. Um and I think it's really important that this is when we remember that parenting is so much better done in the company of others, you know, in the shared wisdom, having a chance to just pause and reflect. I think often our lives are so full and so busy, we're kind of aware of the bits that aren't quite working, the bits that are that are stressing us or concerning us. But how often do we have a chance to just stop? And whether it's journaling or talking to our partner or friends or parents who've got older children who've been through it before, or our own parents even, to just kind of think, what's needed here? What do I need here? Um, and I think it really helps us to know. People often talk about, you know, fight, you know, choose your battles. And it can be really easy to get, you know, there are we'll all have things that trigger us. Um for me, it's wet towels on the bed. And I it took me a long time to grow up and realize that a kind of damp, moldy smelling bed is not the end of the world. You know, what are the things, what are the boundaries that are really important? What is that I'm really wanting to pass on to my child? And for me, it was, you know, it's not about a tidy room or when they do their homework. It's much more about how do you take care of yourself and the people around you. Those are the real boundaries. Those were the real things that I wanted to kind of lay the foundations for for my child, but also kind of have a kind of something for them to butt up against. Because of course, you know, just because they're older and bigger does not mean that they don't need boundaries. It's really interesting, actually. I've I've worked with hundreds of teenage girls, and it's interesting when we we talk about sometimes, you know, we talk about it comes up with, you know, you know, they have a good old vent about all the things that their parents are doing wrong. They don't let me do this, they won't let me do that. It's a lot of it, it's about the boundaries. I'm not allowed to do this. I want more choice, I want more freedom, I want more responsibility for myself. Um, and then it's really interesting because the girls for whom, you know, there'll always be a girl who says, Oh, I'm allowed to do that, oh, I can do that, oh, I can. And at first there's this kind of like, oh, you're so lucky, I wish I could do that. As the girls get to know each other and the conversation goes on, often what comes out is it feels like my parents don't care. For the for the children who don't have boundaries, for the children whose parents don't have the time or the capacity or the strength or the confidence to create and uphold those boundaries, which have to become flexible and compromisable as the child grows older. But the children who don't have that feel neglected and feel that they feel unloved and uncared for. So whilst they kick against our boundaries, you're ruining my life. The number of times I've heard that from my children who've now circled back in their twenties and kind of gone, oh God, thank you so much. I can see now what you were doing and the benefits of it. Um, so it is about holding firm and we can't do that on our own. We need a circle of parents, um, which is why it writes for girls now. We're developing a program for mothers of daughters, particularly, because we're recognizing how actually we need it, we need support for us to do our best parenting.

Dr Olivia:

And to get that knowledge, you know, I was super excited about speaking to you today because you you you try. Like I understand her neurodiversity, I understand navigating all of that, but I haven't really, as you say, I don't have a handbook for navigating the teenage years. And, you know, you feel like you're losing that connection with your child or losing that bond with your child when you're having to be firm on boundaries or when you're um taking some of the vitriol, but you're not really. And I think, you know, that's important. But how do you strengthen, you know, I guess there's a mind shift where you have to realize that this is normal and that's where the community comes in, where it's not your bond that's going. You're not losing your mother-daughter bond. You're in a different phase of it right now. Is that how you would put it? Or how would you, I guess, put my mind or and other mothers' minds at ease as you're as you're going through this?

Kim McCabe:

Yeah, you're you're not losing it. You're actually building it. And yet, you know, so many parents say to me, Where's my little girl gone? I feel I've lost the little boy that I that that I had. And yes, absolutely, you are losing that little person and that special connection you had with them, but you're forging new ones. And it's actually in the interaction, the fact that you care, the fact that you show up, the fact that you hold firm actually is building that bond. Um, and as long as we as much as we're able to do it with love, to do it not from a triggered place, not from because of course sometimes we will feel triggered and we want to punish them, or we want to put them in their place, or we want to just make them stop being how they are. Um, but if we can kind of notice when that's happening and take some time out for ourselves, and and we actually hold good, strong, firm boundaries, it's in that that builds the connection. It's so often that um uh it is a hard role to take, particularly if one parent takes it more than another, to be the one who says, no, you've got to come in by this time, or um whatever, whatever it is that we're that we're holding a boundary on. Um so it is how we do it as well as what we do. Um, but it is what builds the relationship. It although it may feel like it's damaging the relationship, because they will be saying, you know, they'll be pushing back. Um but we're engaged. It's much more concerning when a child starts to kind of just shut themselves off in their bedroom and really wants to have nothing to do with us, and we don't hear anything of what's going on in their lives. And um, that's more concerning. And and that's where I think um having also kind of almost like parenting time out, where um it's something that I that that I cover in the whole of the first chapter of my book, which is a sort of um parent-child date. Um, and just like a date, it's you plan it, you anticipate it, you plan it together, so you both look forward to it. It's something that's that you do regularly, I would say once a month, each child with each parent ideally. Um, and on that, a bit like a date, you don't choose that to be the time to kind of go through the niggles or try and adjust their behavior. You have fun together. You do stuff together that you both love. And it might mean, it might be that as you have fun together and you both relax in each other's company, that a deep and meaningful conversation does emerge, but it's not the place to timetable one. Um, it's a place to kind of go, what does what does my child love? Or what do I love that I'd like to share with them? Just like when you're dating someone, um, and and then you do and you start to form favourite rituals, things that you know, and and then that kind of builds the bedrock of a kind of deep loving connection together. So that will also hold you through the challenging times where you are having to kind of go, look, no, you've really got to go to bed now because you've got to get up in five hours time. Um and I don't want the behavior that you are when you're really when you're really tired. So by all means, if you're going to make your own choice to stay up, make sure you're you're not taking that out on me tomorrow morning, because that's what I want, don't want. Um, and by having those times that are almost like fun times, it can carry you through and keep that that all-important line of communication open.

Dr Olivia:

Yeah, that's that's brilliant because you're making connection in some ways that you with the boundaries that feel like you're destroying connection, but actually you are giving them connection and support and security. And then you're also finding ways to enjoy each other in a new way and doing new things together. I I love that, and and and planning them together. So that's one tip I'm definitely going to take away and implement because life can get so busy that you forget to take those moments of time to do that, as as especially as you know, and and they're more interested in other things, you know, so you might not connect as much. So I think that's a really, really valuable way, and especially also if you have children that are locked up in their room and don't want you to come in. I can imagine that that's quite a good way to re engage with them. And it's probably quite difficult at first, I would imagine.

Kim McCabe:

Yeah, absolutely. And I Do talk about that in the book too. It's like go to where they are first of all. So if they are kind of gaming or streaming, go there first. Say, oh look, what is it you're really hooked? You know, show show me. I'd like to, I'd like to see. And even though, you know, it's the last thing you you're really interested in. I know way more about the offside rule than I ever want to know. Um I know I've seen more memes than I ever want to see. But it's like go to where their interest is, first of all, and and don't bring the judgments and and possibly the things that they already know about you. It's like instead bring curiosity and interest. Be curious, what is it about this that that is really capturing your interest? Or show me, helps, help me set up an a TikTok account. Um, and and and show me what it is that you're that you're that you're really interested in seeing there, or whatever it is, and then kind of go, okay, um, and you start to get a sense of um and and start small as well. You know, do you have a favourite cafe? You just stop off there for a for a hot chocolate and and and a bit of a treat. So it, you know, if you're fearful that if you kind of said, you know, would you like to book do this together, they might no. So instead, when you've picked them up from something on the way back, you say, Hey, do you want to stop off here just for a for a for a hot chocolate? And they're more likely to say yes. So it's it is about going to where your child is, first of all. But absolutely know that no matter how a teenager makes it sound, they always want your time, they always want your interest, and they always want your approval. Now they may that may be counter to everything that they communicate through their body, through their words, but every child wants that from their parent. What they don't want is your judgment, your opinion, your better ideas. Um, and that's what they're often protecting themselves with from as they kind of separate from us in a in in that what can sometimes feel like quite a brutal way. So um know that your child does want your time and attention, and you may need to do a bit of work, first of all, to figure out what you can enjoy together.

Dr Olivia:

Yeah, and I like the way you you phrase it being low-key because it's it's then not putting pressure and you know, igniting all those emotions and things like that. Another, you know, it's a kind of sly way to do it, uh, an understated way to to build that connection with your child again. Um, I like it. I'm gonna have to put my thinking cap on and and and see what I'm gonna do there. What when when conflict does happen, you talk about ways to reframe those moments of conflict as opportunities for deeper connection. How how and when do you do that?

Kim McCabe:

So when you're in the midst of conflict, that child is in a stress response. They are unable to really hear you much, um, and it is not the time to try and resolve things. Um, that is it's one of the hardest times as a parent because you really need to stay in your adult, even though the child in you may also be triggered. So sometimes what you need to do is just take care of yourself first, and then you know your child really well. So um it takes actually it's quite worth spending some time reflecting on this, whether it be in the company of other parents or just with your partner, uh their dad, or um or or just journaling yourself. You know your child really well. When they go off on one, what do they need? And for every child it's different. And actually for some children it's different depending on the circumstances. You know, some children actually just need you to back off and give them a bit of space. Um others need you to stay there, but just be there, not be kind of like, tell me what's wrong, what is it? Just but you know, well, I can help, maybe I can help. That just feels like more stress. So to be aware of what we want to do in that situation is reduce stress, not add to it. And unconsciously as parents, we often add to it. So no wonder they kind of then shut down from us and and it just it just feels like with it it just it just escalates. We're wanting to help them regulate. So the first thing we want to do is help them um recover a sense of themselves because when a child is melting down, whether they're a toddler or a teen, it's terrifying for them. They feel like they're out of control, and that's not a comfortable place to be. So remembering that actually they're highly stressed and de-stressed, and they will often um share that feeling with us. Uh often a way of knowing how your child is feeling is how you feel right next to them. They will often do, say, behave in ways that make you feel how they're feeling. Children often can't put into words how they're feeling. So if you find yourself feeling absolutely enraged and infuriated, that's possibly how they're feeling. And this is not the time to kind of go, what is this about? Why are you doing this? Or you mustn't behave like this. It's like just what do they need to regulate? And often it can be, you know, very practical. It can be, um, look, I can see that all is not well. Let me go and get you a drink of water. So give them a bit of space. Or, or, you know, um, especially once you you've got into a habit of this and you've talked about about it with them outside of the event and said, you know, when you came in and just everything was wrong, and then I it just seemed like anything I said was wrong and it just escalated into that huge fight. What do you need from me in those times? And it's later on that they can sometimes say, like, just get off my back, or you know, stop hassling me. I know I need to do that. So it's like, so they'll often tell us outside of it, and then having the presence of mind in the because it's stressful for us when our child is stressed, to then remember what it is we know, whether because we've been a parent their whole lives for them or what they've told us, is what do they need. A lot of children need a little bit of space, but know that they're not forgotten, so that we then check in on them and that they need a chance to calm down. And for some children, it's like, hey, listen, why don't you just go outside and walk around the block? Um, because maybe we said we've discovered, you know, physical activity helps, or listening to music helps, or or just kind of um going and doing something online can help just kind of calm them for a moment. And then we check back in ten minutes later, half an hour later, and kind of go, and and that's not again the time to say what was going on, because again it just takes them back into it. We want to help them come out of it. So actually, often it can be something completely different. We go and talk to them about something else, or we bring them something to eat or to drink or to or or their their laundry or something. So it kind of brings it down to the ordinary every day. We reconnect with them because they've lost connection both with us but also with themselves. So we're just the same as when we we get stressed ourselves, and actually, as a parent to a child, particularly if you you have a lot of in common with that child, you'll have a lot of tools and experience. So um another way that can help in those moments is when we get triggered, you know, we're driving and someone cuts us off or something, to actually verbalize, ooh, I feel incensed, I want to, I wanna bonk my horn and drive into the back of that car. So I'm just gonna take a couple of breaths. Let me just wind the window down. Um, or whatever, so that we we kind of almost we're teaching them by by by role modelling. Um and then once they've had a chance to calm down, we want we need to teenagers also don't want to lose face. So kind of insisting on an apology immediately or insisting that they talk it through, that's that's that's may not work. It's better just to leave it and um have some ordinary times and maybe, you know, at the end of the day or the following day say, hey, you know when that was happening. Do you want to talk about it? Is there any way in which I could have helped you at that time? What did you need? So it's not again, it's not, it's about what they need, what we that rather than what we need. Because as parents, we become very anxious when our child's not okay. We know when all is not well in their world, and we want it's unconsciously what we want them to make us feel better. And I know as a parent, because I'm a very talky person, I always wanted my children to tell me, talk it through, it'll make you feel better. And I remember my son kind of going, No, that's you, mum. You want me to talk about it. And I was like, oh my goodness, yes.

Dr Olivia:

And that brings up a huge point as well, is that this all of this advice that we you've been giving us today, it's not just about girls, it's boys as well. Although, you know, we've been focusing our discussion on girls. This this applies to boys as well, doesn't it?

Kim McCabe:

Absolutely. Most of it does. Um and and to fathers as well as to mothers. Um, and boys and girls are different, and mums and dads are different, and we bring different things to the relationship, and um that's that's appropriate. Um our men have some great insight into what our boys need, the same as we women have some good insight into what girls need, because we were one once. We have insight into that. Um, but sometimes you'll have one parent who's more like that child than another, and that can cross over the the sexes. Um, and so it's really useful. If your daughter reminds you of your husband or um or the youngest is really similar to your sister, it's really good to talk to that adult and say, you know, tell me what to kind of get an understanding of that behavior. You know, when you're doing that, what's going on for you and what do you need? Because adults can often put into words useful information that our children can't yet.

Dr Olivia:

And then we can use that to help them in those situations and also to take that step back that you started out with where it's not personal, that you know, you're helping your child to navigate their big emotions and their big feelings, and you're not participating in that, you're helping them in that, um, which is fantastic. So um, this has been incredibly insightful and so much like great food for thought for that. I'm gonna be using. And now I'm gonna resist the urge to, you know, pounce on my daughter when she comes in the door this afternoon and say, we're gonna make a date, we're gonna do this and that other, because that's also gonna just be like, you know, I'll just get disappointed and it'll be like a red flag. I'm gonna go in very stealthily. I've got some ideas forming in my head, and I like the way that you approach it from a very subtle approach to make that connection, but setting up those boundaries and having some of those, you know, explosive moments is actually a compliment to you and also is giving them the support that they need. So I think it's all about reframing actually how we look at these teenage years. Because I know you look at it as an opportunity, you know, you you you don't look at it as a as a negative, as so much in the in the public space does. And I think that's a really great way to reframe it.

Kim McCabe:

And always, you know, when you when there's something, you know, don't hold back from having the difficult conversations. I think that's, you know, it it that's important. It's a sign of respect to the value of this relationship. There is no one else in your child's life who is their mother. They have one mother, one father, one, you know, it's like, so let's not waste the the very unique place that we're in as a parent. And then when you've got hard things to say, you may need to think a bit beforehand and think about before you speak, how will it sound to your child? How will it go, you know? So rather than using that to kind of go, oh no, I don't dare have that conversation, it's like, how can I say it in a way that is easier for my daughter or my son to hear?

Dr Olivia:

Yeah, that's uh uh very good advice. And that actually brings us on to our key takeaways, Kim. What would be your three top tips or three pieces of advice that um parents of teenagers can take away from this podcast?

Kim McCabe:

Gosh, okay. Um don't try to be their friend. Be their parent. They've got lots of friends. Um and if you're not sure what I mean by that, just spend a bit of time thinking about what does it notice when you are holding back from your parent role because you're frightened about losing the friendship. Trust it. Trust that you've always got the relationship, that special relationship with your child. They don't need another friend, they do need a parent. Um I think I said this before. Team up, do it in company with other parents, don't try to do this alone, and particularly through the teenage years. You know, when they're little, we invariably find ourselves in the company of other parents going through the similar thing because we're all sat around the soft player, we're always at the school gate and we chat. As our children get older, they go places on their own and we don't encounter the other parents so much. So um create opportunities to meet with other parents and talk about what it is like to parent. Um, it's why with our girls' groups, we often have a parenting group, parents' group, a mother's group that runs alongside it. And actually, we're now working more directly with parents because we recognise that actually that has a really big impact on the young people, on the children. Um third thing would be the research shows that what our children need from us more than anything else in all the world. So when you're kind of stuck and you kind of think, I don't know what the right thing is to say here, or I'm not sure how to handle this, um, your superpower is to be calm and loving. Um so the third thing will be do the things that resource you to be calm and loving more of the time. Our lives can become so full that we're often parenting from stress. And what our children really need, and particularly our neurodiverse children, really need, because they're so sensitive to our mood, is for us to be well regulated. And you can't fake that, and you can't do that all empty. So it's actually um self-care is childcare. Taking care, do the things daily, the little things and the big things, that resource you to be calm and loving for more of the time.

Dr Olivia:

Such those are excellent, excellent tips. Uh, you know, words to live by, I have to say. And I want to say a big, big, big thank you. I will be including in the show notes the links to your books and to your programs. And I'm excited to hear that you're, you know, branching out more into parents as well, because it is, it is interesting. And a lot of the people that I've had on this podcast, helping the parent actually has more of an impact on helping the child than actually trying to help the child. So it's it's it's it's interesting all the time. We need to help ourselves more than and that by default then helps our children.

Kim McCabe:

And do you know what? I hear from so many parents, mothers particularly, that that, oh, I haven't got time. I can't do something for myself right now. We I haven't, I can't invest the time or the money because I'm so busy with I can't leave my children. And it's really hard sometimes for us to recognize that we need to step away, we need to resource ourselves, understand ourselves more deeply, um, upskill ourselves so that we can then be the very best parent that we can possibly be. Um, because absolutely right, that's why we're working more and more with parents now, because you're with the children all of the time. Uh, you know them more than anyone else, and you love them more than anyone else. You are super motivated to bring your very best to it. But we don't always, you know, there's no class in school on this one, there's no handbook on it. Um, so actually dedicating some time to this has a massive impact on our ability to parent well and and therefore on the next generation.

Dr Olivia:

Which is brilliant. Well, thank you. I have learned a lot today, as I'm sure all my listeners have as well. It's been a pleasure having you back on the show. Thank you, Kim.

Kim McCabe:

You're so welcome.

Dr Olivia:

If you're still listening, you're a warrior. Half-term listening is no joke. I hope today's episode gave you something useful. Some clarity, some practical tools, maybe just a moment where you felt truly understood. Here's my ask: don't let the half-term overwhelm you and make you forget about yourself. It's easily done. The summit on November 11th is one out one day, four and a half hours for you during school time. You'll walk away with strategies you will use for years. You'll meet moms who generally get your journey. And you'll leave feeling less alone. Tickets are selling. Purchase yours now. Give yourself a treat after the half-term chaos. I know it's hard to think about anything beyond getting through tomorrow, but booking your spot right now is an act of self-care. It's saying I matter and my well-being matters. And if you literally cannot escape, half term to get to Henley on November 11th. Live stream is available and there for 20 pounds. From your couch, it still counts. So either go to the link in the show notes or go directly to sendparenting.com backslash event. Look now before you close down this podcast platform and get back to the chaos. You're doing an amazing job. I know half term is hard, but I feel your pain. But you're showing up, you're listening, you're learning. That matters. I'll see you next week, and I really hope I see you at the summit too.