EP 153: EHCPs, Demystified

Applying for an EHCP can feel overwhelming, intimidating, and emotionally draining — especially when your child is already struggling.

In this episode, Dr. Olivia Kessel is joined by Dr Abigail Fisher and Eliza Fricker, co-authors of The Essential EHCP Guide for Parents and Carers, to gently demystify the EHCP process and remind parents of one crucial truth:

You are not failing. The system is hard.

Together, we break down what an EHCP really is, when to apply, and the common myths that delay support — including the belief that you need a diagnosis before starting. We explore how to advocate for your child without burning out, what makes an EHCP meaningful (and what makes it ineffective), and how parents can protect their own mental health while navigating a deeply flawed system.

This is not just a conversation about paperwork and plans.
 It is about trust, instinct, advocacy, and hope.

If EHCPs are part of your life — or you are wondering if they should be — this episode will help you feel less alone, more informed, and more empowered.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome & Why EHCPs Feel Overwhelming
• 3:40 What An EHCP Is And Who It’s For
• 7:40 When To Apply And Early Red Flags
• 12:40 Parents Can Apply Without School Gatekeeping
• 17:20 Evidence, IEP Rounds, And Policy Versus Law
• 23:40 Pre‑EHCP Support And Managing School Meetings
• 31:20 Reasonable Adjustments That Actually Help
• 39:20 What A Good EHCP Looks Like
• 47:40 Caseworkers, Ed Psych Reports, And Specificity

Transcript

Dr Olivia: 0:05

Welcome to the Send Parenting Podcast. I'm your neurodiverse host, Dr. Olivia Kessel. And more importantly, I'm mother to my wonderfully neurodivergent daughter, Alexandra, who really inspired this podcast. As a veteran in navigating the world of neurodiversity in a UK education system, I've uncovered a wealth of misinformation, alongside many answers and solutions that were never taught to me in medical school or in any of the parenting handbooks. Each week on this podcast, I will be bringing the experts to your ears to empower you on your parenting crusade. If you're looking for a safe space to connect with other parents navigating their neurodiverse journey, our private WhatsApp community offers support, insights, and real conversations with like-minded parents who truly understand. Join the conversation today. You can find the link in the show notes. In today's episodes, we're going to be talking about EHCPs, educational health care plans. Many parents have told me that applying for an EHCP feels like learning a new language while running a marathon. I know when I went through the process, I think it would have been easier to fly to the moon. There's the paperwork, the process, the jargon, the waiting, and also the constant fear of getting it wrong when your child is already struggling. Today's conversation is for every parent who's ever felt overwhelmed, intimidated, or exhausted by the EHC process. It's for those just starting out, wondering if they need an EHTP, or for those who have an EHCP and are facing like annual reviews, what happens next? What if the EHCP plan isn't meeting your child's needs? It's a great discussion today. I'm going to be joined by Dr. Abigail Fisher, educational psychologist and former teacher, and Eliza Fricker, author, illustrator, and SNED parent. Together they've created the essential EHCP guide for parents and carers. It is a super practical, compassionate, and empowering roadmap through one of the most complex parts of raising a neurodivergent child. And Eliza does the most amazing cartoons and drawings, illustrations that just completely illustrate what I know I felt and I know a lot of parents have felt while going through this process. It's not a guide to just forms and tribunals. It's really a guide that validates your instincts, explains the system in plain English, and reminds you that you're not failing. The system is really hard. So we're going to talk about when to apply, what really matters in a plan, how to advocate without burning out, and how to hold on to hope when the process feels relentless. I know for me it felt like a death by a thousand knives. So if EHCPs are part of your life, if you're feeling that they're daunting, confusing, emotionally draining, this is the conversation for you. So welcome, Abby and Eliza. It is such a pleasure to have you on the Send Parenting podcast today to share your wealth of knowledge and the amazing book you've created that is going to help all of my listeners out there to understand the EHCP maze and how to navigate it. It's the book and the knowledge I wish I had had as a parent because it was so confusing and so utterly out of my realm of knowledge. This is such a needed information out there. So I'm super excited to have both of your brains to talk this through with my listeners today. So, Abby, could you start us off by actually breaking down what is an EHCP, an educational healthcare plan, and who is it for? So many parents hear the term and immediately feel lost. Like I felt like, you know, this couldn't possibly be for my child, and this is for, you know, there's just so much confusion. Can you break it down for us?

Dr Abigail: 4:03

Yeah, so there is a lot of confusion, and that's partly kind of the way it works. Um, it means it's a legally binding plan. So it's an assessment process uh which a parent applies for and the local authority conducts and they will ask professionals to assess your child, and then you get this document which says what is legally binding about what they need to support them in school. So it can be for any child that has kind of needs some additional support in school, um, and up to a certain level of kind of need, the school is meant to provide it without an EHCP, and that kind of tipping point is always hard to discern. Um, but it's designed for children who need more than the school can provide without the plan.

Dr Olivia: 4:46

And it's really it's not about like, because it can feel like it's about highlighting your child's deficits. It's really looking towards, and I like how you put it like a plan for potential. So, you know, because you do kind of feel like as a parent, it's listing all the challenges that your child has, but it's actually the kind of the thought processes, what do they need to help them grow?

Dr Abigail: 5:05

Yeah, it is. There's a real double bind because you actually have to talk about the hardest stuff to get an EHCP. So often parents don't want to talk about those things, and fair enough, but the the times which are really tough on the things your child is really struggling with. So it can feel like a deficit, actually. Um, but the point is to put the support in so that you can help them thrive by recognizing better what they need, really, in the process.

Dr Olivia: 5:30

And what's interesting is the earlier you put in these kind of interventions, the less interventions you actually have to put in place, I would say. But oftentimes it's quite a lengthy process. Now, Eliza, you and I both have lived this process as a parent. And how do you know? And I know I can share my story afterwards, but how do you know when to apply? And what was that moment for you with your daughter?

Eliza Fricker: 5:52

Well, I didn't know when to um apply, and I I I'm very open about how green I was during this time. I didn't really know anything about it, and the times that I suggested it was met with the the Senko saying that she was too bright and she was too able to need an EHCP, she wouldn't get an EHCP. There wasn't any point trying to apply because she wouldn't get one. So it wasn't until um I often used the car analogy that the wheels and the wing mirrors had fallen off that we then were kind of in a position to apply because I asked for any uh educational psychologist to come in, um, which the school agreed to, and by that point we were fortunate we had a very good educational psychologist who said, Um, I can't see that you know, school have done enough. And I think you know, he really pushed for it basically. He was a real kind of advocate for us.

Dr Olivia: 6:48

That's amazing. And it it is really tricky, and I know, like, you know, your school said no to you. Um, my school didn't even tell me about an EHCP, which was you know, I was in a private school to try and help with my daughter's challenges, and no nobody told me about it until I was leaving the school, and then they said, Oh, you know what? Um we think that we, you know, if you stay, we could we could help you with this thing called an EHCP. And I was like, Oh, really? What's that? And then they started explaining it to me, and then they gave me the impression that I needed them to be able to do it, which is not actually the case. And then COVID hit, so we ended up in a in a really interesting situation, but there's also the ability for a parent to um enact the process themselves even without the school's um help. Abby, can you talk a little bit about how your phone framework works for parents and kind of um getting to the the point which both Eliza and I did with okay, we're gonna go forward with an EHCP.

Dr Abigail: 7:44

Yeah, so there's always this decision-making process, and that's that framework is just a way of thinking about what stage you might be at, whether you've got enough to embark, because so the letters are proof, uh, how hard is it? Uh, what other changes could be done, what how well do you understand the needs of your child? And endings is about kind of are there any transitions looming? Because when I'm thinking with a parent or you know, with a school about whether it's the right time for a child to apply, you do need written evidence generally, because that's what they are, you know, that's what uh they'll make their decision on. So if you don't have any written evidence, you've got to start there, even if it's quite high level, because they'll say you haven't done anything. Um so you do need to show that you've implemented something and tried. Um, and that you have the school, you're trying to show the school has some understanding of your child's needs and they've put some play things in place already. But there's the and we talk quite a lot about it, about this, the kind of difference between the policy that the local authority will have and what the law says. So the local authority, and parents often don't know this. Um, the local authority might have a policy which says you've got to have a cognitive need or we're gonna or or we won't assess you. But actually having other needs, you can still get an EHCP for that. Does that kind of make sense?

Dr Olivia: 9:01

Well, it kind of sounds like Eliza's uh situation there because her child was cognitively very able.

Eliza Fricker: 9:06

Yeah. And I think also, I think school, you know, I don't want to say they were lousy, you know, they were trying to do stuff, and I think I think what happened was they almost felt like it was a slight on them that they weren't doing enough. And it's not obviously, you know, but that's what they felt, you know, and so they were kind of kept saying, no, no, we'll do more, we'll do more. But of course, that was just, you know, it meant that the whole process was took a lot longer.

Dr Olivia: 9:31

And you kind of need that that that evidence of what the challenges are, what the school puts in place, and whether or not it works, what the outcomes are. And then also there's the other stream, which is how much does that cost? And can the school meet that with the budget that they have allocated for that individual child? And I noticed that a lot with some of the moms that I work with, um, that there's that that's where some of the challenges also lie.

Eliza Fricker: 9:56

And I think sometimes the schools will say, I think we had something similar around how many rounds of IEPs, if you know what those are.

Dr Olivia: 10:03

They have Why don't you explain it? Explain it in case some of our listeners don't.

Dr Abigail: 10:09

We have to have so many rounds of the the IEP means the kind of termally what the school is doing. So it's meant to be the kind of micro level on the ground, what the school is doing with kind of points that the child is working towards. Um, and the local authority might have the idea that you need to do a certain number of rounds of those before you can make an application. And so when the Senko might be saying no to Eliza, that's what they're thinking. The local authority is going to turn down this request unless we've done this many rounds. And the kind of secret backdoor that you talked about there, Olivia, is that actually parents can also apply.

Dr Olivia: 10:45

Um, and they don't which is really interesting because like I had no idea about this. We moved schools during COVID to a specialist independent school, which I self-funded. And then they told me also, well, we can't do one either until we get to know Alexandra, you know, so it it it delayed it even further, and and then it got delayed even further. But um actually I had enough evidence and I had enough of reports and stuff that I had enough, I didn't do it because I didn't know it. So I just went through the normal path and it took two and a half years. But um, you know, and I almost had to sell my house to pay for the educational setting that she was in. But, you know, it's it was an aha moment to me that actually you do have control as a parent. And what's super important to both of your points is that you start tracking these things really early on, and you start, you know, it our instincts as mothers is really, really strong, and we know when it's not quite working. But we might stick our head in the ground a bit. I know I did a little bit because you know you want things to work out. Um, but the more you can face it and the more you can get the evidence of what the school is doing, what you're doing outside of the school, because you might be putting a lot of things in place that you're paying for outside of the school too, that also feeds into that kind of EHC, you know, are you having private tutoring? Whatever you're doing, um are you paying for a school so that they're in a smaller setting? All these things add up.

Dr Abigail: 12:10

Yeah, absolutely. I parents come now to me with things like timelines, and it's amazingly helpful because it shows how early they were thinking about it and how early there were problems, actually, and how you know it gives a it gives a much clearer picture of what's happening.

Dr Olivia: 12:24

I think I'm I'm always hoping that someone in the technology world like creates like an app I know, or something where it's really easy where you could just make voice notes and it like it just uh tracks it all so that you could, you know, the minute you start thinking of these things, you could just have it all, you know, compiled up to you.

Eliza Fricker: 12:41

I did a consult the other week who is an app developer and they were actually talking about something. I know it's amazing if they should do it between being very tired and parenting, but yeah, it'd be great.

Dr Olivia: 12:54

It would be so useful and so useful for for you know for the local authority and for the school to see the the kind of progression and also the communication between like what's going on at home versus what's going on at school. Because oftentimes also I'll hear from parents that the school will say, Oh, they're absolutely fine in school, you know, because they're masking, and then at home it's an absolute, you know, chaotic, violent mess at home. Um and they don't understand that situation, and it's because the kid is burning out at school. And you you've written a good book on that, Eliza. Um so when you talk, Abby, about you know, what can be done before the EHCP, we're kind of touching upon this as well. What would good support look like? So before the EHCP, what kind of like building blocks does the parent and the school have to kind of put in place in terms of I don't know, targeted interventions? And then, you know, it would be great if they work, but if they don't work, tracking that as well. And and you talk sometimes about the five stages of support. Um, could you describe that?

Dr Abigail: 14:02

Yeah, I I think that's quite helpful just if you're thinking about if there's anything going on in school yet already, where am I? Because you might be at a point where you you're thinking about an EHCP, but actually you haven't had any conversations with school at all. And so that's okay, we'll start with that and start with kind of, you know, that then there might the first place to tap into is things that are going on in school already often. Um, and having that conversation, thinking of stages of who you're talking to. The teacher is like in the classroom, but then when you feel that's not, you know, you need something else, you need to step up to the Senko. And that might not come from the teacher. The school might not say this is the next step. You might need to be the one to say, Oh, we need something bigger, we need some more experience to come into this conversation, for example, because they are the person that has the oversight of all the kids with additional needs in the school. And they will also know like what what what what things are going on that that your child could tap into. Um, if that so the first step maybe being, you know, go it's additional time out of class with this group that's going on or this literacy intervention they've got running, they're in charge of all of that. Um I think what I really look for is like the school's flexibility and how responsive they are and whether they're listening to you. That's what I hear from parents the most. Um, and if and I I think that the things like how to handle the meetings with school, because the things that parents seem to come a lot with is like that, you know, the meetings are really tough as a parent. Um, it's they're very disempowering. Often you might not feel like you're being listened to, and you're also really stressed, so you can't say what you wanted to say. So finding ways to express yourself the best you can in those meetings, like planning in advance, taking someone with you, writing things down, even like taking minutes in the meeting and feeling able to do that so that you can then look at what was said afterwards, because quite often in these meetings, so much is said that you're you're just left afterwards with like, oh, I don't feel great, but what why is that? What what did they say about my child or what has been suggested? Are there any actions, you know? So trying to keep a hold on the process when sometimes a school isn't taking minutes, and you know, that's so if you can write something down, it helps.

Eliza Fricker: 16:12

Yeah, I think it's it's I think what you're saying is so true because we don't for us as the parents, we don't understand this system, so we're already going in feeling quite anxious, aren't we? Because we don't know. So we're we f feel kind of reliant on those in the school building to be the ones to help us navigate it, and that isn't always the case.

Dr Abigail: 16:32

Yeah, and it can quickly get elevated to the wrong thing and kind of sometimes even you won't know who's in the meeting with you because they don't introduce themselves. So yeah, feeling trying to feel able to take a step back and be like, oh, I haven't met you, who are you? And those kind of things um can help.

Dr Olivia: 16:52

And I think bringing someone with you can be really important too. I know I never brought anyone with me, but uh, it's that's not a good idea, I think, because you know, even having someone to take the notes, or you know, there's charities out there where people will come with you from charities, um, and it just it gives you a buddy, you know, to to help you navigate it and and to also have listened.

Dr Abigail: 17:12

So I think the listening, isn't it? Someone else will have heard different things and also will be able to say, Oh, but they did say they're gonna do that. Because when you're feeling so anxious about it yourself, lots of it sort of gets lost.

Eliza Fricker: 17:22

Yeah, I've just had the post-18 review, and and I and I bought a friend with me for that because it's not something that over time you feel gets easier. It's still a place you go that is it can feel quite difficult actually, even if you're doing the work we do and we're talking about advocating for others or supporting others, when it's your own child, it's very difficult. It's a lot more emotive, isn't it? So bringing that friend along is is just so helpful. It's that other set of ears when you're perhaps feeling anxious and not able to hear it all.

Dr Olivia: 17:52

Yeah. And it, you know, it depends on where you are in the process, like we're talking here very early on, there can also have been, you know, there there can be some animosity between the school and the parent and some blame um that is being felt. And I've seen emails of the school kind of really pointing still to in today, you know, pointing the finger at the parent, oh well, they're fine at school. You know, what are you doing at home that's causing these problems, you know? And so that already creates a deficit kind of model of meeting.

Dr Abigail: 18:21

Yeah, already and a difficult dynamic that's kind of hard to shift. Um, if you've been trying to get things for your child in the school for a while and things aren't happening, you are understandably actually cross and then it's hard to be productive sometimes, isn't it?

Dr Olivia: 18:36

Um and you you you tell a story in in the book about Tom's story. Um can you share that?

Dr Abigail: 18:43

Sure, yeah. Um, so that's a story about making reasonable adjustments. And I again this is early stage because I do also have worked with lots of parents who think that um they have to get any HCP because things aren't working, and sometimes the reasonable adjustments can help and they can take it in a different direction. And that's a story about a child who transitioned to year three when things have got a bit more structured and a bit more pressure in the classroom, and he started having meltdowns at home. Um and they were his parents were really scared of asking for help because they weren't sure how school were going to respond, and they didn't know if they would actually be able to do anything. They thought, oh, he just needs to adjust to year three, this is how it is. Um, but they did try, and school actually were quite experienced with this problem because it is a definite shift in their school, and they put some small things in place for him, like giving him afternoon play, um, they gave him fidget toys, they let him have more movement breaks, and actually that eased the pressure for him, and he was happy with more movement. And so he didn't need to go down that route of needing an AHTP at that point. Um, so yeah, I guess it's because it is such a long journey at the moment, and it is a real thing to embark on. Um, it's I it's sort of thinking, oh, have have school done everything that they think they can? Have I had all those conversations? um are these things that school can do still. And I guess actually even if you are going to embark on it, my other the other message of the book is keep on trying to get things to happen in school because otherwise it's a long time when things might not improve.

Dr Olivia: 20:12

Yeah, and there's a lot of uh there's a lot that can be done relatively easily in the classroom and with making adjustments and being more flexible, which is outside of what normal school is about. But when you do that it can actually have a really positive effect and not get to the kind of trauma and the anxiety that it can build up if you don't do anything up into that point. And a lot of parents I also think you know think that they need to get a diagnosis before they can go down to an EHCP, which is actually completely not true.

Dr Abigail: 20:46

Yeah, no, it's not true. It's about their needs. So things that show that they have, you know, maybe they've got social communication needs, maybe they're struggling with their behaviour in the classroom, maybe if there are sensory things going on, but school can show school can talk about all that. That doesn't need to come from an external professional. And even if if you are on a waiting list for something, you can also say that you're on the pathway and that would count.

Eliza Fricker: 21:10

Yeah, because often I think parents think it's such a long road don't they? They think they've got to wait for the diagnosis, which as we know a long time if you're using the NHS and then then they so they think there's lots of hoops to jump and actually knowing that you can do that without diagnosis is really helpful.

Dr Olivia: 21:26

And that you can get that support earlier on in the school and that you you are entitled to that. And if you're you know I think in having those early conversations and communications and if you keep hitting a wall with that school try switch to another mainstream school which has a better reputation like the school that you just mentioned in the story with Tom who was very you know knowledgeable about this area.

Dr Abigail: 21:49

Yeah and I I think sometimes the the school when you say better reputation it's thinking about which school is going to suit my child better. It might not be the one that has the better offstead actually so in terms of reputation might be the one I was talking I was talking send reputation. But I think sometimes parents it it's it's easy to get kind of blindsided by that offstead means everything is going to be better and you know and high level but actually yeah going to look talking to the senker about your child and seeing it and thinking oh can I imagine them there? And schools are not all the same and I think sometimes there's the message that schools are all the same, this is what schools can offer but it's got very massively in experience and flexibility and sort of sensitivity.

Eliza Fricker: 22:35

And I think always pushing back with school if you sort of have a good profile that you can describe of your child to the school and saying to them what have you done for other children like this in the past can be a really good way to find out what they potentially can do or are not going to do.

Dr Abigail: 22:50

Yeah absolutely and some also that's a helpful way to screen out because some schools are so like responsive to children that need something different. That's kind of what they love to do and they sell themselves on that and they are really interested in what you're saying. And some schools are more focused on something else and so you will pick that up when you bring that up and that will help you decide I guess if you're thinking about changing school.

Dr Olivia: 23:14

And I think it's always important to go and visit the school as well because it's rather like looking for properties online. They look beautiful or they don't and then when you visit them you do get that kind of gut feeling when you go into a school and you speak to people. So there are lots of things that you can do before you start the EHC process to help your child and that you don't need to wait until a diagnosis to start putting these things in place because it does take a long time and children grow very quickly and unfortunately damage gets done to self-esteem and to mental well-being and health if these things are left and not supported um you know and then you know when you get the you know getting the EHCP and I was under the mismissance that you know there we go I've got the EHCP the golden ticket you know my heart rate went down by 10 beats per minute because you know this was over. I, you know, I didn't have to sell my house it was great. But it's not as Eliza's just said at 18, you're still stressing when you go into a meeting about it. Because it's actually what's written in that EHCP that's important. And oftentimes it's not sometimes I shouldn't say oftentimes but sometimes it's not worth the paper that it's written on because it's too ambiguous and so it's not you're not able to follow it or to see whether or not the child is actually thriving in this environment. So Abby could you share exactly what things do look good in an EHCP and what should parents be aware of and there's that fine window I think it's 15 days that you you know the local authority can take as long as they want and miss all their deadlines but you only have a short period of time to review your EHCP and then it gets reviewed annually. But just looking back what does a good EHCP look like and how does a parent know?

Dr Abigail: 25:05

Yeah so I've only actually really learnt this th through working with a LISR and starting to learn what happens because the EP writes one thing that then is is changed in the EHCP. So like there's a really crucial stage of checking which is laborious and difficult actually of like your reports and how they've been translated with the EHCP because mistakes can happen and things can be taken out and often it's the really specific things that might be taken out. I think things about number of hours what kind of it actually looks like in the classroom has really like tightened up in recent years because it's hard to get to get it happening sometimes on the ground.

Eliza Fricker: 25:44

It happened to you Eliza didn't it like they absolutely I mean I I I had an EHCP and like Olivia I was like woohoo got it brilliant great thanks and then I was sort of showing it to different places and and they were like yeah yeah no problem no problem and I'm thinking hang on a minute how good is this EHCP if they're all thinking that they can meet need and this is the difficult thing because if your caseworker and again I was very naive at the time I thought the caseworker worked for me as in advocated for me but um if your caseworker takes out all those juicy bits that your educational psychologist has written in their EHCP and you end up with a generic one well it serves the local authority because it can then be taken to places who will then say they can meet need. Well actually if your child like mine was very you know in that environment very complex needs and high level of need, you need that stuff in because actually you don't want all these schools saying they can meet needs. You want to find the right school that that says you know this is tricky but because of this we can do this for them.

Dr Abigail: 26:49

So yes that was the the situation we found ourselves in yeah and I think what you said there like no one sits you down and tells you what to do is something that also I hear quite a lot in terms of waiting someone a casework of expecting them to and particularly with people trying to get finalizing packages and things no one tells you necessarily to talk that what you said just there in terms of what what's in the HTT is what is then taken to the school. So that's what will decide whether they think that they can meet your child's needs or not. So it's like if it's too high then some schools will say no and I know sometimes parents having the HTT that they take to the where their child already is and the school might say no and it comes as a really big shock. Or yeah and if it's underplayed then they all say yes and you're like oh but they're not all right at this school which is quite similar.

Dr Olivia: 27:40

But yeah the the kind of having to I guess take stock yourself and think, oh what is it that I need to do here because no one is telling me and and making I think you make a really good point there because I've also heard of you know when you when it's too much then that then you're actually closing doors but you also don't want it to be too vanilla or generic so that everyone says yes too because really what you're trying to do is find the right environment for your child. And then there's also the case of you know you've got the EHCP and then you know your your child's growing and you're getting maybe some more assessments done by an OT you're you're seeing you know continued trouble at home and continual meltdowns and behavior issues and you're realizing that it's it's not fit for purpose. And so then you come to an annual review and you want to to challenge the the school's setting how do you go about doing that and it's very difficult. It sounds like you kind of went through that a bit how do you how do you change your EHCP? How do you change the wording how do you um get the local authority to reassess what they've decided.

Eliza Fricker: 28:44

You did have to do that right Eliza Yeah we did do that in the end I think we used uh I did use an advocate for that to kind of show we we meant business and we did go for full reassessment with the local authority then. So it's not pleasant to have to go through all that again. It's very time consuming as well.

Dr Abigail: 29:03

And I do think it's really hard resource wise to get it actually isn't it? The reassessment seems to be something that is yeah hard to get um but yeah I think you would need the evidence like you say if you've got more reports to do it. And I think the problem that you come up against is that then you don't have the kind of EPI to be in charge of writing the whole thing. So you you can end up with a document that has lots of lots of old stuff and bits of new stuff and it starts to not hang together at all. And that's really tough.

Dr Olivia: 29:34

Yeah. And what if I mean so if um if it's if the school itself is is realizing that they're not able to meet need, although they originally said they could meet need and you have additional proof you still have to go all the way back to the beginning and have a reassessment is that what I'm understanding?

Dr Abigail: 29:53

No I don't think you always have to have a reassessment. I think if it's about that's a very that's kind of a nice specific situation school saying they can't meet need if the parent agrees as well then you can both go to the local authority you can have an early annual review in which you're both saying the same thing and with evidence that you've tried and then it will be about okay so what are we going to do next? It's if it's if there's a bit more conflict that you might be wanting the reassessment I think if so like if you're saying it and then the school is saying well we could meet need but it's very difficult for us to meet need but we can we can or if then then it's if if we we just like what if it's not working we don't know what to do that that kind of situation I think then is needs more of a reassessment because or that we just can't you know we've tried everything we know to try and help them back into school we we can't we can't help this and we don't know where where where might be the right place what the next thing is then you might need more of the the kind of problem solving process.

Eliza Fricker: 30:48

I think sometimes um what's quite difficult is it almost feels like the biggest evidence is your child trying somewhere and it not working and that's really rough as a parent that you've got to kind of almost put them through that but it's all there is a lot of that that happens where sort of school like well let's see or the local authority are like well let's see first and that that's hard because you then have to put your child through that ultimately and then go look, see we told you yeah too and I think sometimes they they're not always that discerning in which settings they think you should try um because that they're they're looking at what's accessible locally perhaps like and what says it's you know meets the needs of an autistic child perhaps and without reading the fine print of of who that child is and what what environment they need necessarily. And it's I mean it's it's hugely damaging I think to the child as you're saying Eliza as well um to have to go through that failure to have to go through the the stress and the anxiety but it's also you know as a parent you know um how you felt having to do that you know yeah it's really rough and even you know they are I met up with um well he was at a party at the weekend our old educational psychologist who the local authority and we were talking about this and he said one of the things he thinks that is very difficult is that often the case workers and the people in the LA are not trained in in the things that you know educational psychologists are trained in so they are really kind of glorified admin and they have about in our LA about 350 cases per per person so they're completely overwhelmed. And the thing that will happen is they kind of go through these sort of tick bock procedures a lot of them and so they'll say things like you know your placement might have broken down they say well but we've still got to go and consult the other places and you know that those other places aren't going to work and and it is an exercise that they have to do and those sort of things are really difficult to hear as a parent because you know you know they're not going to work and even the fact they're going to kind of do that and and it potentially can take you know quite a long time for them to do that with their 350 caseload you know it just feels like do we really need to do that um so there's a lot of things like that that feel quite upsetting as a parent but also you know to do sort of delay delay the process as well quite a bit.

Dr Abigail: 33:14

Yeah parents are getting really worried about just what you say that kind of we've got to take it to all the local mainstream schools it's like oh then that there's no way they can go to another mainstream school and that is just one of those tick boxes we have to ask them they need to read it and say we can't meet the need.

Eliza Fricker: 33:30

It's what I often do though I've been in that situation a few times and I say to the caseworker that I will do that for them. And so I just phone those places and and explain um and and I tell them that's what I'll do. Because I as you know it's important they actually hear the real thing, the real message rather than you know so um yeah.

Dr Olivia: 33:52

It it's it's interesting because with my daughter's EHCP the local authority said there was a mainstream school near me that could meet needs. So I I like you Eliza I said well um I want to go and meet the Senko and I want to go uh meet them and I'm gonna bring all of her reports which was you know like a stack that high and I went and had a meeting and I met that met the Elsa support and they took me around and I asked the questions and because she was a summer baby and was held back the local authority had also suggested that she skip year six you know transitional very important year just skip it and go straight into secondary school in their ultimate wisdom. And you know yeah and you know I said great you have small English and math but what about like history and French and these other things? How is she going to cope with her profile? How is she going to manage this? And we had a really honest and open discussion about it. And you know I run a podcast like we could really talk head to head about neurodiversity and what needs were you know we had a good discussion. And at the end of the day they're like we don't really actually think we can meet need for your daughter and if we did we'd have huge reservations about putting her up a year and it's gonna cost um I think they quoted like something like 6000 pounds to bring in the extra support to support her in that environment. And I said okay and you know I would have loved for that school to have been able to meet her need. It's very close to my house. So went home and you know talked to I had a solicitor as well and he, you know, we couldn't get the local authority to agree that that's what the school had said. They said no no no the school can meet need the school can meet need. And they even pro provided me with a spreadsheet which said that they could meet need for 3,000 pounds additional per year. Okay. Completely fabricated okay so my solicitor was like we need to do a subject access request because his father had actually been in a a pivotal case about how the local authorities can't withhold information. So I got these reams of emails between the school and the local authority and in there they locally authority even said be careful parents are getting um knowledgeable about uh these subject access requests but the school in it stated that they could not meet need that they had grave reservations about putting the year ahead and they included the proper amount that they would need if they could even attempt to try and meet need. So I mean I was flabbergasted and I think as a parent you you think that they're playing fair. They're not even with the solicitor then I'm like okay we've got them I was ready to go put the handcuffs on the local authority. You know what I mean? And he's like Olivia hold on be careful now. I still had to play very nice. Yes then they were in a much more difficult position not to accept the school that she was in but it still wasn't a home run as they would say in America I still had to be polite go to a tribunal pay for all my experts it still had to go down that that path they they conceded the night before. Yeah not traumatizing for parents at all this system is it and you know I think of myself as relatively educated and I was putting money towards it and that's the path and the journey that I had so you really have to and that's where your book is so important you have to educate yourself as a parent about this process and you really have to be savvy because and I know that no you know not all local authorities are trying to get you but they also have their constraints they're working within their budgetary constraints they have different burning platforms okay if I'm going to be nice which is as nice as I can get right now but um you know but so you have to be very very knowledgeable as a parent and you have to be very very careful. And so I think you know visiting the schools yourself making sure that they understand your child's needs and making sure they have the full picture because I'm not sure that they always do especially if it's a generic EHCP or you're at the step before you actually get the EHCP. So I'll get off my soapbox now but I wanted to share that story.

Eliza Fricker: 37:40

Yeah yeah I mean it's another one to add to the oh my goodness I'm flabbergasted by what you've just told me but that folder's quite big now I have to say I know I haven't really met anyone that's had a really great experience have you had do you have any stories of anyone that's had a great experience or should we say or that it's been a breeze that they that they don't have like the scars you know my my my solicitor described it as Olivia you've really experienced a death by a thousand knives so how do you as a parent and uh Eliza maybe you can give us some tips on this as well protect your own mental well-being and health while you're navigating this and you're also coping with with I don't want to say difficult child but a more challenging child at home you know that that that takes a lot of your energy as well look it's really hard and I don't think any of us will say you know whether you're you know I speak to families who you know they're they're solicitors themselves and they're baffled by the system you know it affects the sort of one thing it's a great leveler because all of us end up in the pits with this I do not think it's easy for anyone um I would say you know trying to think about it that it's a bit like buying a house so don't kind of sit on your laurels with this you know keep those emails going keep you know keep checking in on this because when your caseworker has 350 families some are going to drop by and those will be the ones that are not checking in on this regularly but you know this process takes time and so use that time to try and rest or spend time with your child and keep this stuff away from them as much as you can try and compartmentalize it as much as you can and find those that get it as well because I do remember I mean I drew it that I drew a picture of myself and it was called the bore where I'm trying to tell people like friends or family about this stuff with all the acronyms and you know they're glazing over you know it's those conversations are very difficult with people who don't understand it. So find the ones that do because it won't take so much of your energy and it might be quite reassuring at the same time you know I've got a couple of friends like the one who came to my review um this week Can you know we've been there for each other from the beginning to through this, you know, our children are nearly 18 now, but you know, find those that you can really kind of who get it, you know. We had to stop at McDonald's on the way back and get an emergency supply for w one of our children, you know, they get it, and and that will conserve a bit of that energy rather than sort of always telling friends and family who are going to feel a bit helpless and and in in knowing what to say, and that can feel like you're using a lot of resources up with them.

Dr Olivia: 40:30

And I can find that some I you know, I totally that resonates with me, finding finding your tribe, so to speak, because you can also, I had I would have I did consider her a best friend, and she's like, Oh, you're just trying to get free education for your child. And I was like, you know, it was uh it was the end of our it was the beginning of the end of our friendship because I I would never wish this on anyone's child. I would much prefer my child to go to mainstream school. I, you know, the the they don't understand the struggles, and you know, that's her ignorance and her viewpoint, but it is shared by others that you're trying to get a free ticket for your child. Um, and that's I can't categorically can say that is not the case. We are fighting for our children to be able to be in an environment where they can thrive and not be destroyed. Um now on that positive note, uh could we, but before we end, I'd love to talk about, you know, in your book you talk about real stories and real hope. And in your final chapter, you share some parent experiences of struggles and triumphs. Could you share like one story that particularly stayed with you?

Dr Abigail: 41:30

Yeah, the one story that I really that really stayed with me, actually, is um of a child he's called Amir, and uh they've had a really difficult time, lots of tried different placements, and then so these stories came about because in writing this book, one does start to feel a bit helpless, it's really hard. And so I put out a call on Facebook to to say, you know, people that have been through it, where are you now? It have things you know worked out positively, how is it? And I was we were inundated, so it was wonderful actually, and with stories of like great practice and parents who are really happy with where their children were. So they were all like and I interviewed quite a few parents to hear those stories, and they were really like, oh, this and these this one is really about a school that like they go the extra mile, like they set up they they went, the parents went to look round and they saw a boy smashing one of the windows um safely with gloves on and goggles on, and the teacher was like, It looks horrific, but he's safe. There's an adult at the end of the room, he's getting all these feelings out, he's gonna be okay. And and she says they saw that, and that made them know that their child would be all right there because that he was allowed to be himself, and the adults he was allowed to let the adults know how he how he felt, um, and that they'd be, you know, they'd be given a way to work through that in a way. And the other thing that same school did was uh they organized us, so the the teacher was talking to the class about sleepovers, and you know, the the kids all said we haven't been to a sleepover there at 1213 and they just had never been invited to one. And so she organized a sleepover at school with Teddy's campfires, marshmallows, and that for the time being that's that that was the only time their son has been to a sleepover, but it he it was a sweet memory of it and of really of the school just like flexing and listening and that they said that how much they trust the school now and that they know that if he's not happy that it's gonna it's gonna be talked about straight away. They're gonna tell him the day about the day that he's had, um, and they really support them as a family, sort of and tune into how they are and what they need. Yeah.

Dr Olivia: 43:39

So there is a light at the end of the tunnel, which is, you know, yeah.

Eliza Fricker: 43:43

It's yeah, I have to say, you know, I I loathe the process, I loathe the document, I loathe the term send, all of it. I don't, you know, I just you know, I don't relate it to us, but one thing it has given us is that building block, another building block, and that is finding a setting that has been perfect, well, not perfect, but brilliant. Let's say brilliant, because it's not perfect, nowhere is perfect, and you have your ups and downs, but it has been that next building block, and you know, I I know some parents end up sort of not in the system, and I and I get that too, but for us, it was really important that my child had that sense of belonging and those connections, other than me, particularly when she became a teenager. She naturally wanted to move away from me. This was important to find something, and you know, we have been incredibly fortunate with that, and that's something that we wouldn't have had without their EHCP, and you know, that first educational psychologist who was able to write a report that was you know brilliant and did sum up my daughter really, really well. And so there's been some bits through this that have been, you know, absolutely changed things for the better having it. So while it is awful to go through, you know, we've been fortunate that it has given us something that has been brilliant, and you know, she's nearly 18 and still in that setting. I don't know if she'll ever leave, but she loves it, you know, and they love her, and that's a lovely thing. You can feel that in that setting. So, you know, it does give you something, it can give you something.

Dr Olivia: 45:20

It is worth the effort, you know. I think that that it and and it it is worth the the the struggles because it at the end of the day, you find the support for your child that your child needs.

Dr Abigail: 45:30

And in the right setting, it it's not a constant fight, I think, is what like in the right setting, oh we we know we can meet your child's needs, we know what they're like, we've got these things in place, and we we welcome them here.

Eliza Fricker: 45:43

And then I always say that I got really good at sort of seeing when I would present this EHCP, I got really good at seeing the pullback I called it. It was just a very slight when people would, you know, this NCO would sort of look at this thing. And when we went to this setting, there was none of that. And I and I and I I did, I completely broke down that day I went to that setting because I thought I can let go, you know, I don't have to do this all myself. And they said to me, it's very much about the family being ready for this as well. Because if you're not ready, you will find yourself probably trying to micromanage this setting, finding all the thoughts, a good setting, you will be ready for it, they will be ready for it, and you won't need to micromanage it. You can hand that over to them, and that is a wonderful feeling when you've been doing it all.

Dr Olivia: 46:30

There are no better words, I think, that a parent can hear is to be able to let go and not be managing it all by themselves because it can feel very, very isolating. Now, I want to thank you guys for your uh for your input today. I love to end my podcast with three top tips, um, which hopefully you got the email that I sent you just in time this morning.

Dr Abigail: 46:48

Um I don't have three tips.

Dr Olivia: 46:54

But you can share the three together, but with anyone listening to this who's gonna, I know, rush out and go buy your book, which the link will be in the show notes. What and so they'll find lots of tips in your book. What are the three top tips you could give someone who's who would be the right uh reader for your book? And what three top tips could you give them?

Dr Abigail: 47:14

I think my first would be perseverance. If you don't think your child is happy and things are not going well, whatever, whatever stage you're at in the process, you're gonna have to push. Um don't kind of don't think sit back and think, oh, I've I've told them now they're gonna do it. Because they're just there's too much pressure in the system right now. Um you have to keep on it and thinking, have they done it? Are they doing you know? Um and keep when are we meeting again? Um, yeah, that's mine.

Eliza Fricker: 47:43

Um I would say um that maybe you don't need to pay for lots and lots of things, you know. Um I have never paid for lots of things. Um I think we often think we need loads and loads of reports, and um actually we don't. What we do need is that really good EP to write a really good report and make sure if you're gonna spend any money, spend like I think it's like usually around 150 or 200 quid to get an advocate to read that draft stage for you and make sure all the juicy bits stay in that um EHCP in that draft document. Get that put back in because that's the main thing. You could pay for lots of reports, and your LA may say we don't accept reports from that person, or you know, we and actually you don't need that much if you've got a good EP. So don't feel like you know, the money element is going to be the barrier to this, and the same with the diagnosis, because you don't need to worry that you're not gonna get diagnosis in time, you don't need a diagnosis.

Dr Olivia: 48:46

You actually gave two tips there, Eliza.

Dr Abigail: 48:51

I think the other one I would say is about getting your support system and people that understand it. We talked quite a bit about it because, but I think that really helps remind you it's not you, it's the system. Because the other thing you can really feel like you're not being a good parent, um, and that you're letting your child down, but it's not you, you are doing everything. That is the system that we're in at the moment and that where it is. Um, so having other people around you that do understand it and that are also going through it and having the same, you know, battles, I think is just so helpful.

Eliza Fricker: 49:23

And this isn't to put people off buying the book, but you know, buy the book, read it about EHCPs. But equally, you know, if you do feel overwhelmed about doing any of it, take a break and do it another time. You know, it's not it doesn't make you a bad parent that you haven't, you know, done this at this point or been really proactive or on it or understood, you know, it's it's a complex and stressful situation. If you've got other things on, it's okay to park it for a bit and pick it up when you've got a bit more um in your in your kit, whatever that, yeah.

Dr Olivia: 49:56

Yeah. And I find that there's, you know, there's great WhatsApp groups and support groups, and there's ones for where you're at, you know what I mean? When you're furious and you just want to rage and there's other people raging, and then you get to the point where you've moved beyond that rage, and then you might stay in that group for a little bit and help other people along, and then you move on to another. So you'll you your group might not be the same group throughout the journey, and at times you'll be pulled up, and at times you'll pull other people up. Um, so find the right place for where you're at on your channel.

Eliza Fricker: 50:24

You could go on these groups and you might say, My child is like this or has a diagnosis of this. Has anyone had any experience of this setting or this school? It's a bit like getting a builder, you know, what one person's experience is like is not necessarily going to be your experience, you know. That person might be really, really traumatized from their past experiences. You don't know, so you know, go on your own gut instinct with settings as well, or even individuals, you know. If they if you get on a chat and everyone's, you know, saying bad things about a certain EP or a certain casework or a case manager, just go with yourself still in this setting because you know, I've had it with a case manager at my LA, and people are like, that person is so harmful to families. They were actually really good with us and got us their settings, so it's not going to be the same for everyone. So trust your own judgment in this too.

Dr Olivia: 51:15

Yeah, those are wonderful. I mean, we just we just overexceeded the three top hits there. So well, thank you both so much. And I encourage all my listeners who are in this part of their journey to buy it, or for anyone that they know that needs this kind of help. As I said, I wish that I had this resource. And it's, you know, it's it's easy to read, and your illustrations just I mean, I I just love looking. There was like, uh, I remember that. Uh-uh. Like it's it's it's just brilliant. So I highly recommend it, and thank you for coming on the podcast today to share your knowledge with my listeners.

Dr Abigail: 51:45

Thanks for having us, Livia. Pleasure.

Dr Olivia: 51:50

Thank you for listening, Send Parenting Tribe. If today's episode resonated with you and you know another parent who's struggling with VHCPs, please forward this on to them. This conversation and this knowledge empowers all of us, and it helps parents realize that they don't have to navigate this journey alone. Next week I'll be sharing something a little special. I'm gonna bring you a conversation from this month's masterclass inside the ADHD Warrior Mom membership, where I was joined by Lucinda Milla, who's a nutritionist, founder of Nature Doc, and author of many books, the latest one, Brain Brilliance, which is a neurodiverse nutritional toolkit. We talked about brain fuel, how nutrition supports focus, how it can help with emotional dyste regulation, how it can help with energy dips, and we will discuss it in a really practical way, and some of the members of the community will ask some of their questions, which I know will resonate with you guys too. So make sure you tune in next week. And until then, take care of yourselves. Take things gently, and remember you're doing better than you think.