EP 161: Raising ADHD Teenagers with Jheri South

The teenage years can feel particularly intense when you are parenting a child with ADHD.

Many parents expect things to get easier as children grow older — yet for many families, adolescence brings new challenges: emotional outbursts, school struggles, growing independence, and the feeling that your once-connected child is suddenly pushing you away.

In this episode of the SEND Parenting Podcast, I am joined by therapist and ADHD specialist Jheri South, who works closely with teenagers and their families. Together we explore what is really happening in the ADHD teenage brain and why this stage can be so complex — not just for teenagers, but for parents too. 

Jerry shares both professional insight and personal experience as a neurodivergent parent raising seven neurodivergent children. Her work focuses on helping families understand behaviour through the lens of brain development, emotional regulation, and the unique wiring of the ADHD brain.

In this conversation, we explore:

• Why ADHD teenagers often seem three years behind in executive functioning
• The impact of constant criticism on self-esteem in ADHD children
• Why traditional parenting approaches based on punishment often backfire
• How rejection sensitive dysphoria (RSD) drives emotional reactions and meltdowns
• Why connection matters more than control during the teenage years
• Practical strategies parents can use to support independence without losing connection

We also talk honestly about the emotional side of parenting ADHD teens — the fear that your child may struggle in life and the worry that you are somehow getting it wrong.

Jheri reminds us of something many parents need to hear:

ADHD teenagers are not broken. They are developing differently — and with the right understanding and support, they can thrive.

If you are navigating the teenage years with an ADHD child and wondering whether things will ever get easier, this episode offers reassurance, insight, and practical tools to help you support your child through this stage.

 Learn more about Jheri South and her work

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Become part of the ADHD Warrior Mum’s Membership — a paid membership space with group coaching with Dr Olivia, access to masterclasses with neurodiverse experts, monthly self-care and real connection. You don't have to navigate this journey alone.

📩 Contact Me
If you would like to get in touch, you can email me directly at olivia.kessel@sendparenting.com

I would genuinely love to hear from you, especially about the topics you would like covered and the guests you would love to hear from in 2026.

Transcript

Welcome And ADHD Mum Support

Dr Olivia 0:05

Welcome to the Send Parenting Podcast. I'm your neurodiverse host, Dr. Olivia Kessel. And more importantly, I'm mother to my wonderfully neurodivergent daughter, Alexandra, who really inspired this podcast. As a veteran in navigating the world of neurodiversity in a UK education system, I've uncovered a wealth of misinformation, alongside many answers and solutions that were never taught to me in medical school or in any of the parenting handbooks. Each week on this podcast, I will be bringing the experts to your ears to empower you on your parenting crusade. If you're raising a child with ADHD, you probably know the feeling of being completely exhausted by advice that just does not work. You love your child more than anything in the world, but the meltdowns and the sleep battles and the struggles at school and the homework and the constant judgment can leave you wondering if you're the only one living this hellish reality. That's exactly why I created the ADHD Warrior Mom membership. It's a private community for mothers navigating life with ADHD children. Where you don't have to explain yourself, you don't have to defend your parenting, or pretend that everything is fine. Inside, we meet every week for live coaching sessions where we tackle the real challenges that parents are facing. The emotional storms, the flash anger, the school battles, the sleep issues, the struggles with executive function that makes homework impossible. And we work through them together. You also get access to masterclasses and most importantly, a community of mothers who truly get it. Because parenting a child with ADHD can feel really lonely. But it doesn't have to be. If you're ready to feel supported and understood and a little less alone on this journey, come join us at SENWD parenting.com and go backslash join. The links are in the show notes as well. It's a paid community designed to give parents the support they often cannot find anywhere else. Today I'm joined by Jerry South, a therapist and ADHD specialist who works closely with teenagers and their families during what can be one of the most challenging stages of development. She has a particular passion for supporting adolescents with ADHD and helping parents understand what's really going on beneath that behavior. In this conversation, we're going to explore why the teenage years can feel especially intense for families navigating ADHD. What's happening in their brains and how can we support them to get to independence without losing our connection? If you've ever wondered whether things are getting harder instead of easier as your child grows older, this episode is going to bring both reassurance and practical insight. So welcome, Jerry. It is such a pleasure to have you on the Send Parenting podcast today to talk about teenagers and ADHD, a topic that is very near and dear to my heart, considering I have one of those species in my house right now. Tick teenager tick ADHD. So I'm looking forward to our conversation. I'm sure myself and my listeners are going to learn a lot. But before we delve into this topic, can you tell me a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Sure. Yes. Well, my name is Jerry South, and I have been working with neurodivergent individuals now for about six years. So I was a coach specializing in communication and relationships and specifically working with women before I started specializing in neurodivergence. I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until I was 40 years old. And it took me on this journey, and we can get into this. I have seven neurodivergent children. They were misdiagnosed. Comorbidity rates are really high with ADHD. So I was really going through it with my kids. And unfortunately, none of the help that I was looking for was really helping. And uh there's there's a story there, but uh the women I was working with, they wanted me to do a class for teens. And at the time I thought, no way, my son hates me. I'm I've like it has been uh, you know, an experience with him trying to get him help. I don't want to work with teens, uh, but I did put a pilot program together and it was the first thing that helped my son. He had attempted suicide at one point. He was really struggling, he was on antidepressants, and uh, he hadn't received the proper diagnosis. And so um that took me on a journey. I when I saw how much it helped him, I immediately shifted my niche to working with teens and then also working with families because I learned as I was working with teens that when the parents aren't involved, the progress does not move as quickly. And so it's it's a family uh or group effort. But ever since then, I have just done deep dives into all things neurodivergence. Uh uh, six of my children are are on the spectrum as well. And so I'm constantly reaching out to specialists. Uh, I took a camera crew to Dr. Will William Dodson's home and interviewed him for four hours. And at the time, I was just on a mission to help my family. It has definitely spilled over into what I do, and I've been able to help a lot of families. But at that time, I was concerned about just saving my son and helping my children and understanding, you know, all of the different nuances and and getting correct information when it came to ADHD or uh autism or both so that I could help them. And uh so I'm still on that mission today. Sometimes I will go teach in the schools, I'll volunteer. Uh, and uh, you know, I'm I'm trying to put out as much information as I can, do podcasts like this, so that families that are struggling, you know, hopefully I can be the person that I was looking for when I was going through this. Most of my children are adults now. That's what I'm hoping to do is give them hope and maybe give them some tools and information along the way that can help them on their journey.

Comorbidities And Misdiagnosis In ADHD

Dr Olivia 6:19

That's beautiful. And you know, it's uh it's it's lovely to talk to someone because you've been through it. You you understand where my listeners are coming from, what what my uh, you know, what all of our stories are. And it is, did you know, did you get your diagnosis through your children's diagnosis or was it the other way around?

SPEAKER_00 6:36

You know, it was actually just it was a no uh my children were diagnosed after I was my sister had a binge eating disorder, and she was looking for help with that, and that led her to Dr. William Dodson's office. He didn't treat her, he had retired by then, but uh learning about ADHD and how that's connected, and that's when almost nobody was talking about RSD. And so once we were listening to that, I mean, it just blew our minds the different things that family members and we ourselves had been dealing with. So that's how my journey started. But then everything else with my children started to make sense. Uh, nobody was able to properly diagnose them or even really help them. Uh, and so I was just so grateful for the good information from Dr. William Dodson about RSD. That's what really connected everything for us.

Dr Olivia 7:30

That's that's amazing. And it's it's it's it's it's that connection, actually, you know, which a lot of places miss actually, especially with eating disorders, that it's it actually can be neurodiversity and and you need to address that. And that kind of then you can address the eating disorder. It's not the eating disorder that needs the addressing. So that's a very good thing.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

I'm glad that you mentioned mentioned that because I I just wanted to highlight that's the impulsive part of ADHD. And if you don't know a lot about ADHD, you'll just assume maybe that impulsivity means you interrupt people, like I just did to you, or you can't sit still, but they don't realize, no, there's so many different, you know, pieces to that. And impulsivity looks like a lot of different things, like a binge eating disorder.

Dr Olivia 8:12

Yeah, uh, super interesting. And also that you brought up in your conversation there about comorbidities. I think you know, also a lot of people don't realize that there's a lot of comorbidities with ADHD. Um, and yes, you know, understanding that in the context is really important as well.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Well, it makes it more difficult to get a proper diagnosis. Uh, and many times we see misdiagnoses, and so they're not getting treated for ADHD. If you have ADHD, there's a 60% likelihood that you'll have one comorbid condition and a 40% likelihood that you'll have a second. So it's actually more likely that you'll have something else going on, like an anxiety disorder, autism, OCD, then the dyslexia. Dyslexia. Yes. That's our family's favorite. Yeah, we've got some of that over here too. This is the great thing when you have seven kids, you just kind of you have all of it.

Dr Olivia 9:03

Well, don't you have is probably uh it's so true.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Well, OCD runs in our family. So my my sister, two of my daughters, I already knew they were struggling with OCD. And then autism, I didn't know ran in our family. Uh I we believe they got it from their dad's side because those things carry on too. And uh, you know, having two neurodivergent parents, my children just they're all neurodivergent. We consider it a blessing. It's just that it doesn't feel like a blessing until you get proper treatment.

Dr Olivia 9:34

Yeah, and the right support and the right understanding and the knowledge. I mean, that's why I started this podcast too, because when you're in the dark, as it sounds like you were as well, it just is overwhelming. And it's so hard to see the light or you know, see the sky for the trees because you you just don't understand it. But once you start to understand it and you can tap into it and you can reframe how you look at your life, how you interact with your child, it changes it completely. And it can then become a very positive environment. And you learn a lot, not just your child, but you as well. And that's what we're gonna talk about today, which is like what's going on in our ADHD teenager brains, because that's that's the beginning of the understanding is to understand what's going on in their brains.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Read their brains. I know. I wish I had an app for that. I do.

Dr Olivia 10:22

My daughter just got mad at me because I was singing in the kitchen, you know. I mean, dare you.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

I've been there. Good morning. What? Okay. Yep, I get it. I get it. Well, I'm excited to uh yeah, to talk about teens and and uh what's going on in their minds. And uh yeah, let's get into it. I can't really.

Dr Olivia 10:55

You know, I think a lot of people now understand about the executive functioning and how that is delayed. Um, but then we bring hormones into the situation as well. And and you've just shared, you know, a deeply personal thing about your son and and the kind of feelings he was going through. It's a time of big change for kids. Um, can you talk a little bit about how understanding the brain can help us as parents to understand the teenage time, to kind of frame it, to contextualize it as a starting point?

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Right. Well, let's just first acknowledge that uh a child with ADHD, they do have what Dr. Dodson would call a second neurological system. In other words, they just have a different neurological wiring than a neurotypical person. It's not good or uh it's not better or worse, it's just different. And many times uh we'll get a diagnosis, we refer to it as a disorder. That's what the medical community calls it. And so we look at this as a negative thing. This is a bad thing. They're going to struggle, they need supports. And while they they do benefit from having supports, their brain works perfectly fine once they learn how to use it. But we're, you know, they are in an environment where at school and their surroundings that they are required to do things that their their brain would prefer to do it differently. And so as a parent, the first thing we want to do is acknowledge there's nothing wrong with your child, but they might struggle to perform in the environment that they're being required to perform in because they do struggle with short-term memory. There are some things about the school environment that that really um the ADHD brain struggles to stay engaged with. And we can dive into that a little bit more. But the child, every single person I work with, whether they're eight or they're almost 80, they have self-confidence issues if they haven't worked on themselves. Because by age 10, uh an ADHD child has heard on average over 20,000 corrective messages. Why can't you sit still? Why can't you do that? What were you thinking? Calm down. What are you so upset about? Why can't you do it like your sister? She can do it. And all of these just little comments from teachers, from parents, from other adults, from friends really wear on that ADHD child. The other thing we want to be aware of is that their brains, when they are still developing, are at least three years behind a neurotypical brain. So there's a lot of what I say shouldding going on from parents. They're 15 years old. They should be able to do this by now. They're 12 years old. I shouldn't be having to remind them. And I tell parents that I'm working with, let's just remove that right now. There's no shoulding here. If you, you know, if you have a shooting. Because we do it, right? I don't have to do this for you.

Dr Olivia 13:43

Until you realize, until someone says this to you, you really, you know, and it it creates so much tension and disconnect.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

The shoulding. I was guilty of it. I really was. Well, we I think we all are. We're human. Anything that I teach about or talk about now, my oldest is 30. I I did wrong. I don't like to say we do things wrong. I don't really like that phrase, but but I did. I did everything wrong. I didn't know better. I was just doing it.

Dr Olivia 14:13

It's not wrong. It's just didn't get it. You know, you didn't, and I didn't get it.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Well, and I'm glad that you said that. I think people benefit from hearing that. I I'm a medical doctor, you not me. And I didn't get it. So the all the rest of us who aren't doctors and we're not getting it feel better about that too. That you you don't get it just because you're a doctor, you don't get it just because you have seven kids. You don't get it just because you yourself have ADHD. You have to learn these things. So recognizing if you have a 12-year-old that you believe should be able to keep their room clean or they should be able to keep track of all of their assignments because they're 12. Well, what would you expect of a nine-year-old? And then if it's a boy, I would argue maybe reduce another two years. What would you expect about impulsivity, uh staying on task, being able to focus, to do things that they're not interested in? That really opens up our mind to where they're at. Uh when kids can't control their impulsivity. Yeah, they can't. It's a nine-year-old boy, even though maybe they're 12 going on 13. So we want to meet them where they're at. When we continue to reinforce the idea that something's wrong with them by expressing disappointment, by constantly uh overcorrecting and complaining about their behavior or demanding that they do things that they're not quite good at. Like we want to encourage and we want to reinforce. But when most parents are demanding and getting really frustrated when they're not getting what they want out of that situation. So we just want to be aware. And that really helps parents reframe really what their idea is of ADHD. And one other thing I'll say about this is that as someone gets treatment for ADHD, and that's not always medication, you know, medication is one option. I, for example, do behavioral coaching. I think that's a really important piece as they learn about their brain and how to get their brain engaged and how to really um show up the way that they want to show up, which is consistent, right? They want to show up consistently, everything changes for them. So I just want to tell parents, like just trust the process that they might grow a little bit, you know, like learn and develop a little bit slower than you want them to, but there's nothing wrong with them. And if if the people around them start to believe that something's wrong with them, they will believe it too. Uh imposter syndrome and people pleasing is a devastating side effect, I would say, for ADHD. And I think one of the best things we can do as parents is help them not get into that mindset and see themselves for their potential.

Dr Olivia 16:44

Absolutely. And I I think, you know, it's it is that reframing of it, you know what I mean? And as kids, you know, become teenagers, it's knowing what is the right kind of challenge for them, what is the right independence for them, you know, what is, you know, how can you, you know, you want to kind of have that balance between being over controlling but also being, you know, withdrawing too much too. It's actually gauging. There's a a gauging exercise of what can they actually do now? How can you challenge them just that right amount?

Autonomy Needs And Puberty Pressure

SPEAKER_00 17:17

Yeah, that's that's right. And one thing uh I didn't mention also uh earlier when it comes to uh ADHD's is that sometimes you'll have ODD, which is oppositional defiance disorder. And um, you know, there's a there's a lot of conversation going on about what specifically causes that. Is it genetic, is it environmental, is it both, uh, what age does it come on? Will it go away? And they're all great questions. And we're seeing a little bit of all of that. That's why there's a lot of conversation around it. But uh you you do have the risk of ADHD uh uh developing into also oppositional defiance. There's a huge need for autonomy uh with neurodivergent individuals. You see all the memes on the internet, well, I was gonna do it, but you told me to do it, so no, I'm not going to do it. You know, that's a real part of the ADHD wiring. And so I like that you're bringing this up. We we want to help these kids uh find their independence, but we still ADHDers thrive with structure and they're also allergic to structure and routine. And so uh I believe it's our job as parents to help them find that balance, not shame them when they're not doing it well. I mean, as an ADHD adult, I still don't like routine, but I'm figuring it out. Uh, you'll really see teenagers start to struggle when they're going through puberty. So, right around like uh 11 to 13 years old is when I'll receive um a lot of phone calls from parents at that age. My child, I don't know what's going on with them. They're being defiant, they're starting to struggle in school because as you know, hormones are surging, uh, this is when we see a lot of these ADHD symptoms manifest. And it just becomes, you know, their impulsivity might become a little bit more intense. And also they're starting to get a little bit older where more executive functioning um development is really important. They have to keep track of multiple assignments or they might have multiple classes, and that becomes more of a struggle. Uh, and so it's important to highlight too that ADHDers are known for um, they they they are searching for dopamine all the time. So they want to do things that they're good at. Some children, when they are struggling and they feel that they're disappointing people in their lives, they'll get to a point where if they don't believe they're automatically going to be good at something, they just have more of a give up mentality. Well, I'm just not going to do it. So I see a lot of that happening around those preteen teen years when teachers are disappointed in them, parents are disappointed in them, they have been trying really hard, they're being accused of not trying very hard, and they just kind of throw up their hands and say, you know what, forget it. I'm not good at this anyway. And it feels terrible to do it. I'm just not going to do it. And so parents will think, why is my child being so defiant? What's going on here? And we want to look at is this really ODD, or is this like a few years of masking and trying to do a good job? And they feel that they're not doing a good job. And so that's where the defiance is coming from. It's more a self-esteem issue. Uh, it's really important to dive into that. And I'm constantly evaluating myself as a parent or was uh when my kids were younger, what what part of this process can I, you know, what can I change? Where am I have some responsibility here for the way I'm talking to my child or expressing disappointment and and where they're at?

Connection Time And Being Their Cheerleader

Dr Olivia 20:40

And and and how how do you do that self-reflection? Like for listeners that are, you know, like if you're if you're trying to gauge, you know, um what's going on in your child sex? I have a I have a lot of listeners who have that kind of PDA profile and who, you know, sometimes with autism, sometimes with you know, with ADHD or a combination of all three, um, just being able to gauge where where you're at.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Well, you know, I I was doing that constantly because I I have ADHD and I knew that uh my emotions could be intense. Uh, I would realize that, you know, if you reflect on the things that hurt you when you were a child or the things that um you wished could have gone differently, it helps you really put yourself in your child's shoes. And so uh it would really help me. This was a visual, ADHDs are very visual. Uh, and I would think, you know, if my child walked in the door and they had a black eye or they had bruises, it wouldn't matter what I was doing. I would stop everything and I would run to the door and I would want to know what happened and I would, you know, take care of my child. But these children are walking in the door with bruises. They're just inside and they're holding it in and we can't see them. And so because we can't see them, most of us will. I mean, hopefully we're being loving and greeting our child, but we're very much about, you know, did you do your homework? Why didn't you do this thing? You left your shoes out again, you still haven't cleaned your room. And when I would really sit and think about what was going on with my child, uh, the things that they were saying to me that maybe I hadn't, I didn't dive into enough yet, I realized that they were holding a lot of pain inside. And so I started taking more time. I can tell you uh one thing that I'm a big believer in is separating, I know I'm going off from your question a little bit, but I'll get there. I think this is important for your for your listeners. Separating parenting time from connection time. Uh kids are telling us like the statistics say that only one in 10 children is telling their parents what's really going on in their mind. And even then, it's not usually the complete truth. So we don't fully understand what our child's experiences are at school. They might complain, they might tell us some things, but there's there's a lot going on there. And when I reflect back on my childhood, I didn't sometimes I think, why didn't I tell my parents about that? There were so many things that happened that I just suffered silently inside and I went home. And my parents would have never known some of the difficulties and stresses that I was having, even in elementary school. So uh I love uh coaching parents on separating parenting time from connection time because we want our children to trust us and see us as someone that's on their side that will be there for them. And I'm not saying be your child's friend, not their parent, but we want our children to see us as someone who can have fun with them and connect with them and not just parent. So I'll tell parents, of course, there's a time for parenting time. Uh I don't recommend you do it in a child's bedroom, but pull them out into the living room, the family room, take them on a drive and discuss all of the important things. But what parents will usually do, especially as their kids become teenagers and they don't want to spend as much time with them, is they'll say, hey, you know, how about this Saturday? Please, please, please come with me. I'll take you to get lunch. We'll run some errands, let's just spend some time together. And their child will agree, they'll get them in the car, and the parent will think, oh, this is great. Go get them their favorite drink. And now, what's going on with math? What why are you failing? How come you and your sister aren't getting along? And I'm coaching these kids. They'll say, Oh my goodness, I'm never going anywhere with her again. We weren't even out of the neighborhood and she's nagging me. We want to get really good at connection time, where we're not asking any uncomfortable questions. We're not talking about school, we're listening to their favorite music or singing with them in the car or talking about what they want to talk about. We could be sitting down at home playing video games with them, doing the things that they like. When we get good at connection time, our children will feel a lot more safe to come to us. It doesn't mean they'll tell us everything, but when things really matter, they usually will come. So I got really good at that. So I could understand what was going on better in my child's brain. And then every week I would reflect on, you know, if you decide before you go into a conversation, what do I want the outcome of this conversation to be? It's going to look a lot different than if you just go in with emotions. Usually we don't think about the outcome. So we go in and we just say what we're thinking or what our feelings or emotions are. But if the outcome, what we want from that conversation is for our child to feel loved and supported and to understand what they need, we're going to ask different questions. So every week I would sit and think about what were my interactions with my child this week? What was the outcome? What is still unresolved? And how much connection time did I have with them? And it's not really a huge shift. It just took some time on my part to set aside that really made a difference in how much I was able to connect with my child. And I know I've been long-winded, but the last thing I'll say about this is uh Dr. Dotson actually told a story about um a handful of adults that they were following that had ADHD, you know, years ago and they didn't have ADHD medication. I mean, I think ADHD medication was a thing, but they wasn't as popular. And so they struggled through life with ADHD with really no supports. And they were asked, how did you do that? How were you, did you become so successful? Because they were really doing well. And every person that had a success story had the same answer. And it was that they had a cheerleader in their life. They had someone that said to them, I'm here for you no matter what. If things aren't working, it's not because you haven't been trying. It's not for lack of trying. It's not because you're doing something wrong. It's because we haven't figured out what it is you need. And I will figure this out with you. We're in this together. And I've never forgot that story. And I thought that's that's as parents, the role that we all want to play, the parent, but also the cheerleader.

Rewards That Work And Consistent Boundaries

Dr Olivia 26:47

Yeah. And it you you can get you can get stuck in the parent role and thinking that that's the most important role for success. And as your story just illustrates there, that's not necessarily the best role for success, especially with ADHD kids who are getting a lot of negative feedback from a lot of different sources. Um, so to be that cheerleader for them and to to just listen, you know, to to zip your mouth up, actually. And I'm not diagnosed with ADHD, but I highly suspect it. But um being being quiet is so difficult. And not jumping in and not introduction. It's been, you know, such a lesson to just listen and be quiet and to hear. Um, we have Cafe Kessel at our house. When my daughter gets home from school, I make a big hot chocolate and I've usually baked something and we sit and we have Cafe Kessel, that's my surname. And I just, you know, she just it just all comes out, you know, or if it's not raining outside, we'll go for a walk. But those times are really precious to her. If I say to her, Oh, let's go do something else or whatever, like go to the grocery, she doesn't want to do that so much either. But it's having that time where she knows she's just gonna be able to talk about what she wants to talk about because that's when it it comes out. Or if you another thing I think to to to talk about is when you, you know, they don't want to talk and you see them, you know, something is, you know, they're either getting really angry at you, they're you know, bursting out, it's figuring out kind of what's going on underneath there because it's not about unloading the dishwasher or it's not about picking up their shoes. There's usually something that's happened at school or something else that's going on underneath that conversation or underneath that behavior that's really important, I think, especially in the teenage years, to kind of get underneath the hood of that. Can you talk a little bit about that or what strategies you tell parents for when when they're seeing this explosive, almost it can be violent behavior at home, how they can cope with that?

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Well, yeah. So, and I I think the the violent behavior and not wanting to talk could also be in two different categories as well, because when it comes to just not wanting to talk, the the example I already gave of the difference between parenting time and connection time can be really valuable because maybe not talking, but just doing something they love, like sitting and playing their video game with them or uh doing something that they like to do. I I have some teenagers that love to just go on drives, and the parent will just out here in Arizona, we have all these soda shops. So it's really popular for teenagers to go to the soda shop. But the teens I work with will say they just appreciate it when they get to go to the soda shop. And I'll tell parents, you don't have to be talking a lot. If they don't really want a lot of talking, just drive with them, just put music on. That's connection time. And so it may not be exactly what the parent wants, but you're working your way to that. There's trust being built, there's connection that's happening. And so if we can get really good at that, now parents will tell me sometimes, well, my child doesn't want to do that with me. It doesn't matter what I offer, they just say no. So then I'll tell them, well, why don't you just put something in place? Like every Monday after school, you and I are gonna spend 30 minutes together. And we'll do whatever you want. And if you can't think of something you want to do, then I'll pick something. But but sometimes just setting that in stone, if you know your teenager's always going to say no, just it's you time, you the two of you, and try to find things that are fun, take them to get ice cream or whatever it is they like, or just play their favorite music and drive around for a little bit and don't do a lot of talking. And and that will eventually evolve into something different because we're trying to get the teenager to see you differently. You're not just the person that tells them what to do, you're the person that can have fun with them. When it comes to violent behavior or really difficult defiant behavior, uh, there's different things to put in place. I uh use the REST program with the the kids that I coach, and that's something that Dr. Barkley teaches. Uh, and it's really any system you put in place, it's just about consistency. We know that children with ADHD, they respond better to rewards than they do consequences. And so the systems that I help families implement have both of those. It's there's always a reward for showing up and having good behavior and recognizing their good behavior. I think uh parents, when they have a child who's struggling or they're struggling with their child, it's sometimes difficult to remember to walk around complimenting that child, like, hey, you put your shoes away. And a parent will say, I don't want to compliment them for that. They should be doing there's a shitting, you know, they should be putting their shoes away. But but ADHDers thrive in leadership positions and uh just receiving compliments, right? So it is important. I think the the research shows that the ratio is five to one for every corrective statement we make. We want to be giving five positive complimentary uh statements. That's kind of a lot of work, actually. Clean your room and I love it. You know, it it's a lot of work. But if we can learn to do this, um, and so what what we're doing is we're creating an environment where we're really recognizing all of the little things they're doing. You know, I'll I'll talk to teachers and administrators about this too, no matter how terrible the behavior is at school. If you notice that they sat down a little bit faster or they're not tapping their pencil, say it, you know, I'm so proud of you for not tapping your pencil. I'm proud of you. You stayed in your seat today, you know, an extra minute, whatever it is, we want to be because ADHDers will usually rise to the occasion. Uh, the majority of the teenagers that I work with who have ADHD, that will be one of their number one complaints. My parents only notice what I'm doing wrong. And I don't think that they're completely in touch with reality. I think their parents do make positive statements. The problem is the ratio is not five to one. That's difficult to do. And so the ADHD brain is focusing on the negative comments made. So it is a lot of work, but the more that we can offer how much we love them, how great they're doing, despite the poor behavior, because a lot of children, when they get in trouble, they experience this. Uh, I don't know, my parents are mad at me and they stay in their room all day, and there's just kind of this energy of I'm in trouble and nobody loves me. We want to get really good at if we are going to give a consequence of giving the consequence and still embracing that child and helping them feel loved. There's this one consequence for this behavior, but it doesn't affect the energy in the house for the rest of the day. This child still feels involved and loved.

Dr Olivia 33:18

It's a way of kind of switching that. And you know, you mentioned that consequences don't work very well because it's far removed and punishments don't work well either. But unfortunately, I don't know about the school system in the US, but the school system in England at least is very punishment-based. And oftentimes our backgrounds as parents are punishment-based from what we learn from our parents. Like if you do this, you're going to have your phone taken away, or that's going to happen, or that's going to happen. And that doesn't really work so well with the ADHD teenager. So what other strategies other than complimenting can you use to navigate not falling into kind of the punishment consequence? You do have to have some consequences, I think, but how do you navigate that as a parent of a teenager?

SPEAKER_00 34:00

I I do believe in consequences. It's just that I were I believe in rewards as well. And this is where sometimes parents will say, well, I don't want to give them uh any monetary credit for just doing regular things, or these are things that I believe they should just be able to do on their own. And so every family is a little bit different, but I again just removing the should uh because what we're doing is we're helping these kids develop and train their brain to be good at things. So let's say that uh a child is terrible at their chores and a parent believes they're old enough that they should be able to do these things by now. I mean, in my opinion, there's nothing wrong with giving them rewards, whether it's uh some kind of allowance money or helping them work towards a pair of shoes that they want, because we're not going to do it forever. We're we're teaching them routine and consistency. Their brain is wired to avoid boredom at every cost. Being bored is the most heavy, overwhelming emotion for an ADHD. We will do anything to not feel bored. We're chasing dopamine. So it makes perfect sense that an ADHD child is not going to be consistent about doing their chores or doing their homework. So we want to reward that and give incentives. So what I'll typically do uh with the some of the programs that we put in place or the processes is we'll have uh maybe depending on the age, okay, everything has to be done by seven. And if it's done by seven, here's the reward you get. So depending on the age, it could be uh they get a poker chip that's worth a certain amount of money and they put it in the jar. It could be a certain amount of points and then they turn them all in on the weekend, and then they that's what they get to do. They're choosing something uh for older kids. It could be they're working towards concert tickets or shoes or something that they want. And then if they don't get it done by seven, they don't get the reward for that day, but it still has to be done by nine. And then if it's not done by nine, then there's a consequence. So we're trying to give them as much autonomy as possible. I also don't believe in just uh handing out a consequence without having a conversation about it first. I'm always trying to give kids choices because kids will say, here's something I see happen a lot. Uh, because parents were inconsistent, we're human. So depending on our mood and how our day went, we either have patience or we don't. So we're either giving a consequence or we're letting it slide. And and so it's hard as an ADHD mom to be consistent. But uh, I'll this will happen a lot is the the child will do something they knew they weren't supposed to do. And then they'll come in my office upset, they've lost their phone. This is so stupid and unfair, and my mom and dad, this and that. And I'll say, okay, I'm just curious if you knew this was going to happen, what what made you want to do it? Uh and I know they're impulsive, but I want to hear their answer. And usually it will be something like this. Well, last week I did it and I didn't get in trouble, or I did something even worse and there's no consequence. And then this week I lose my phone. When this happens, this kind of inconsistency, it robs the child of the opportunity to take responsibility for what they did. They do not see that they did something wrong. They see that their parents are jerks because they didn't get in trouble last week and they got in trouble this week, and their parents are just doing this to be mean because they don't always get in trouble. And so this is why consistency as parents is really important. So I as an ADHD mom, it makes my head hurt to think of like charts and stickers and all the things. So we come up with really simple same thing every day. This is what time it's done to get a reward. This is what time it's done to have a consequence. And you sit down with the child ahead of time and you help create consequences and rewards together and also recognize that ADHD's, they run off of novelty. So we can't, a lot of parents will say, hey, at the end of the quarter, if you have good grades, here's your reward. That will never work. They need a reward within two weeks, like no longer than that. They need a daily dopamine hit and a weekly dopamine hit. That's why poker chips, points, putting something in a jar, something, an envelope on their nightstand every day is so effective because they need that kind of uh motivation to keep going. And it has to be something that they can that will be tangible soon. Uh, so that's what we're we're doing as parents is trying to figure out a consistent routine. And if it's not working, we sit down with the child and we make sure it's something they're really motivated by. Children are not motivated by rewards unless they've chosen the reward. The reward has to hit one of those five things that engages the brain: novelty, passion, interest, urgency, or challenge. If a parent chooses the reward, I'll take you out to dinner here or I'll give you this kind of money there, if they're not excited about it, it's not, it's not going to work. So playing around with that system uh usually works really well. But I'm not a big fan of don't talk to me like that. Give me your phone. I'm a fan of letting children know up front, here's the expectations, here's the rewards. And if I have to give you a consequence, I will. I don't want to, but here's the consequence if it if we get to that point. Now the child has complete autonomy to decide. Because sometimes children will decide I don't care about that reward today. I'm just not gonna do it. And that's that's their choice. So giving them as many choices as possible and having them involved in the process is really important.

Dr Olivia 39:19

But it it it teaches them and sets them up for for life, really, because that is how life is. You know, you make your choices, you you decide what rewards you're gonna get and what consequences if you don't go for those rewards, you know. Um it's part of being an adult. So um I'm completely on the same track as you. I know there's some parents out there that don't believe in rewards, but um, I think particularly for an ADHD brain, it's essential. But I think if we look at real life, we we you know, you don't work for free and you do stuff in life because it's rewarding, whether that's on a cerebral level or a financial level, you know, that is the way life revolves.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

Um, so I'm I think it's important that parents learn how to uh parent the ADHD brain. So we want to be flexible in our thinking. We want to be willing to look at ourselves, our children, where they go to school, every part of our lives and figure out is this best for my child? If we get stuck in rigid thinking and we're inflexible about our ideas of rewards or consequences or whatever it might be, uh, you know, the person, the individual that will suffer will usually be the child. Uh ADHD children, one of the consequences don't work for them because they will dig in their heels, they are looking for autonomy and they can be very stubborn. They will have a standoff, a lot of them, not all ADHD children, but fine, take it. I don't care, take my phone. I don't care. And then they won't want to work to get it back. And so we're we're we're trying to find ways to motivate them and and really uh rise to the gifts that they have and to the potential that they have, which is incredible. But if we're having power struggles with them every day, we're kind of missing the mark there. It's like, let's just figure out what motivates this child and makes them want to get their chores done. How do they feel good about themselves and accomplished? Uh so being willing to evaluate yourself and what's working and not working is a really important uh tool for parents to have.

Dr Olivia 41:11

Absolutely. And you know, they they will be stronger than you in that power struggle. So there's no, you know, just just you want to better. I think it goes back, it goes back to our earlier conversation as well, though, is about framing it correctly as to where they're at developmentally. So what you're asking them to do matches what they can do with a little bit of a push, you know, and you know, getting that kind of um what they can do, rewards for doing it, and then the magic happens because then they it goes into again then the praise because then they're able to do it, they're proud of themselves for doing it, they start feeling better about themselves, and then they like to do it more, you know, and it it is a progression that you can see, which is really wonderful. Because the the alternative, especially with teenagers and ADHD, is that self-esteem, and they're getting a lot of you know, maybe negative comments at school. They might be finding social life very difficult, they might be masking people pleasing. And I don't know about the US, but the UK is having a terrible mental health crisis right now. And it starts at home to kind of prepare our kids to build up that confidence and to build up their self-esteem, which is taking some quite a you know, few whacks outside of the home.

Personalised Parenting Over Rigid Rules

SPEAKER_00 42:21

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it I think we're having all the same problems here in the US. And uh, this is why parents having proper education about ADHD is so important. And one thing I'll say too is that ADHD is a spectrum, very much like autism is. And so uh if something worked for one child, it may not work for the other child. As a parent, uh, one of the most challenging things for me has been to constantly have to evolve into the next phase of parenting. And what that is is really each child, uh, as they've gone into the the next grade or the next age, uh, I have not parented them the same. I haven't. Their rules haven't been the same, their boundaries haven't been the same, even the expectations have been different. I am not across the board. All of you have to get A's and B's, all of you have the same chores. No, I mean, my children would not have been able to thrive if I was rigid that way. I had to look at the individual needs of every one of my children. Some are more sensitive, some school came easily to them, some really struggled in school, uh, some forgot everything. You know, it's like every five minutes they couldn't remember what they were supposed to be doing, and others were capable of being a little bit more organized. Um, I I saw my one of my roles to be constantly evaluating where this child needs supports and then giving them those supports, whether it was at school or whether it was uh something that they needed from me. Uh, but each one was individual. It's not like I ever figured this parenting thing out. It's like each one, you know, challenged me in different ways.

Dr Olivia 43:52

It's making me think of like personalized parenting. And it it's so true because you're not you're not parenting from a handbook, you're parenting. To support and to help your child reach their potential until they leave the nest. And I think, you know, a lot of parents, including myself, panic that our children are not going to be successful, you know, and they have fear about the future. And that then can impact their parenting in a negative way.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah. So that's one of the things I work with parents on is this, you know, when we feel fear, we start to control. And so, you know, we we do have high expectations of our children. Don't talk to me that way. Don't yell, control yourself. We haven't really um uh we didn't dive into RSD yet, but that's a huge part of ADHD, the emotional.

Dr Olivia 44:40

Can you tell uh talk a little bit about RSD for people who don't understand it?

RSD Explained And Handling Meltdowns

SPEAKER_00 44:44

Sure. Yeah. So rejection sensitive dysphoria falls under the umbrella of the emotional dysregulation side of ADHD. So we used to think of ADHD as being uh a disorder of uh focus and destructibility. And now we know that it's just as much emotional dysregulation as it is any of those other things. In fact, only one third of all ADHDers identify with being hyperactive. So uh typically it's more hyper-arousal. It's the multiple thoughts at one time, it's the impulsivity, uh, sometimes sleeping problems. And then one third of all adults actually uh say that RSD is the most debilitating part of their ADHD. And you'll see this on different levels, but almost every single person who has ADHD will struggle with RSD, rejection sensitive dysphoria, uh, to some degree. I could have been the walking poster child for RSD in my 20s. It was so debilitating. It felt like I was being clawed from the inside out. It's painful. Uh, we call when you're having a spiral, an RSD spiral, we call it an episode because it's so extreme. It can mirror a major mood disorder. In fact, uh Dr. Dodson said that commonly it's misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder. And it's not bipolar disorder, it is RSD. So RSD, I wouldn't think of it as a separate diagnosis. It's part of ADHD. But you have children who haven't learned how to regulate themselves and they're trying to figure it out. So this is why you might have meltdowns, tantrums, and as a parent, you might think you're too old to act like this or you're so sensitive, you have anger issues. No, this is their wiring. This is real. They don't know how to control it. Most adults I work with don't know how to control it. It comes on so quickly. In fact, some of my clients will say, and this isn't common, but it does happen, that when they start to spiral, all they see is red. They can't even remember what they said in the moment. So some ADHDers will lash out, they'll say things, they'll throw things. Others will keep it all inside, but they are spiraling inside. So it's the extreme sensitivity to the idea that you're being rejected. And when it can be triggered by teasing, it can be triggered by constructive feedback or even constructive criticism, the idea that you have failed to meet someone else's expectations. And it's important to highlight that at least half of the time, this is just perceived rejection. And nobody likes to feel rejected, but when you have RSD, it is at an entirely different level that I think a neurotypical person couldn't really understand. And one thing I do want to highlight about an episode is that as parents, I mean, our as parents, we're always feeling like our job is to fix. We have to make sure our children graduate, they're regulated, they're they're ready for adulthood. And so many times we'll we'll jump in and we'll try to fix things instead of leading, guiding, teaching, supporting, which I really see to be our role more than fixing. Uh, but uh we want to jump in many times and fix this RSD episode. So let's talk it through, tell me what's going on, stop acting like this. We might even feel the need to apologize. I'm sorry, let's talk about it. It is not the time. When your child is dysregulated, especially with an RSD episode, they need time to think, to go through their thoughts, to change their thoughts, to become regulated again. So I'll tell my clients on a scale from one to 10, if you're above a five, it's not time to talk. This is important to highlight because if you tell a child who's in the middle of an RSD episode, go to your room, go take time to think, they're probably going to feel even more rejection and it makes the spiral worse. So we want to educate children about what RSD is so that one, they can separate the wiring from their personality because it's not their personality, and they can start to identify, okay, this feels so real, but I do have RSD. So it's possible that this is not happening the way I think it is. And I want to go think about this. But also we want them to learn how to step away on their own so that their parents don't have to dismiss them, which will trigger more of an episode. So the takeaway from this is don't try to de-escalate or talk through whatever event happened in the middle of an episode. Let that child go take care of it, have some silence, think through their thoughts, and talk about it once they're regulated. That could be later that evening. It could be tomorrow. But that's the only that's the only way to have a productive conversation.

Dr Olivia 49:20

Yeah, and I think that education for the child as well. So they know it's it's it's it's it's not you. It is part of you, but realizing that, okay, this is what's happening kind of contextualizes it and makes it less scary.

SPEAKER_00 49:33

That's right. Yeah. I mean, yeah, because when someone continues to grow up with RSD and not understanding themselves, it really affects the way that they see themselves. There's a lot of shame uh involved when you have RSD because you know, internally, you know that your reaction is much bigger than the situation warrants. Uh, you're either embarrassed because you shut down, you you left early, you weren't talking all night, it looked like you were throwing a little shutdown withdrawal tantrum, or you actually lashed out. You said things that you regret, you behaved in a way that maybe wasn't very appropriate. And now you're living with this embarrassment and shame that you behaved that way. And you don't know how to not do it. It's like you can watch yourself doing it and you can't stop it. I'll see teenagers send a text, they know don't send it, don't send it, don't send it. I sent it. I mean, it's that out of control as far as how you feel about your impulses. And so the shame that someone carries around inside for who they are and how they show up, it's debilitating. And as parents, if we just immediately go to disciplining that behavior, don't talk to me that way. Don't you dare walk away, get back over here, why are you crying? Uh, we're not really understanding how RSD works and the lack of control that this child has over this part of their wiring. If we can show up as a support system, uh, for example, my daughter, one of her really only debilitating symptoms with ADHD was RSD. Uh, we did not know that she had an ADHD for a while because she's in all honors classes at school. She does really well, she doesn't need any supports in school. Um, and she did there's a lot of things there. It's just working. And girls, that happens a lot. They fly under the radar, they mask very well. But her RSD, before I knew what it was, I remember thinking, what is this? She is such a sweet, easy girl. She does everything I ask her to. And then, like 10 to 20% of the time, I would say, like, the exorcist comes out. Like, oh my goodness, all I did was ask you to clean your room. And once I we learned about RSD, it was like, okay, this makes so much sense. But what would happen is maybe she'd come to me for help with a paper she was writing, like she has many times before. RSD is unpredictable. They don't understand it. We don't understand it. How come sometimes you can take feedback just fine? And the next day I give you similar feedback and you lose it because RSD is unpredictable. It is just triggered automatically without our control. But she would maybe, if I gave her feedback, grab the paper, forget it. You don't think I'm good at this, slam the door. And without working on herself, she would yell things like, I hate you. And so I knew that she was struggling to control this. So we would work on controlling one thing at a time. You're not allowed to say that you hate me. Let's read about RSD, let's learn about what it is, but you can't yell that you hate me. And so she learned to control that first. She would still slam the door, but she would always come back. I I was okay with that for the time being because I knew she was working on it. She would say, I hate, you know, and and then walk off. And 20 minutes later, I'm sorry, mom, I don't know why I do this. And eventually she got to the point where she wasn't yelling, she wasn't slamming the door, there was no I hate you coming out of her, but she still would storm off and go in her room. And that was okay with me. I knew that she was working so hard and still does to control this huge surge of intense emotions uh that she doesn't totally know what to do with when it comes on.

Dr Olivia 53:03

Yeah, it's uh so eloquently put there because it's and it's it it is I see it with my daughter as well. And it's until you understand it, you can't really help them through it and understanding it and allowing them to go and take that time when she knows, you know, to go and take that time and then come back and then maybe it flares up again. And it might take three times or four times until she finally gets to a place where I can, I can, I can now talk about what's what sent me off. But like you, like you said, there's often no memory of it, you know. It's she describes it as well like a red haze. I mean, yes, I d I don't remember, it's it was gone, you know. And it's it's very hard at school, I think, because you know, it's like other people don't cry, or you know what I mean, like because you feel those intense emotions, and it's hard when teenagers don't want to be showing those emotions to people. So it's um understanding that is so important, I think. For I see it more in girls. Um, I'm sure it's also uh a thing in boys as well, but um, I'm seeing it more with the the mothers that I work with with in girls, but I presume it comes in boys as well, but maybe less, less, less noticed.

SPEAKER_00 54:12

Yes, I mean, boys definitely do experience. I think females just in general tend to be more emotional creatures. And since it's such an emotional thing, these and you know, ADHD is most of us, whether we're boys or girls, it's like when we're up, we're up, and when we're down, we're down, and we're doing this up and down all day, it's intense. But yes, uh, for boys, uh, especially in in school years, it will look more like um uh maybe they'll they'll do something in class that they were told not to do, and the teacher will call them out in front of everyone and they'll lash out, call their teacher names, create a huge scene. But when I get them privately, and it's it's actually quite sad because they'll they'll be boys, sixth, seventh, eighth grade crying in my office uh because of the way they feel about themselves. They struggle with friends, they're trying to be cool, their friends are daring them to do something, like throw something or break a pencil. They do it because all they care about is being included with their friends. The teacher calls them out in front of the entire class and their RSD is triggered and they lose it. And they'll say things like, if my teacher would have just pulled me aside and talked to me privately, I would have apologized. But she targeted me. She purposely tried to humiliate me in front of everybody, and that's the way they see it. So I see a lot of that with boys, is they're they have an ego, they want to be cool at school and they're trying so hard. Um, and their teacher just ruined it for them, you know, that that kind of thing. And so it's important that we're educated about RSD, especially like in the school system, for example. That this this one teacher that I'm thinking of, I talked to her about this and she said it changed the the whole rest of her year with this boy. She learned how to communicate with him and he rose to the top of his class as far as being a leader and and obeying the rules because she would give him line leader and she would give him things to do and she would pull him aside, completely change this young man's behavior. In fact, when I go to IEP or 504 meetings out here in the US, they'll let me as a behavioral coach show up to support the children that I work with. It's really interesting. It will it will usually be that half of the teachers will talk about this child, how terrible their behavior is, they're out of control. You can tell that they are probably even frustrated that they have to work with this child. But then the other half of the teachers will have nothing but amazing things to say about this child. They're so great, they're doing well, we're good friends, they come and visit me between the bells. It's like, isn't that interesting? It's the same child because it's the way that this child is approached. Are you connecting with them? Do you know anything about them? Are you giving them compliments and opportunities to shine, or are you just constantly pointing out what they're doing wrong?

Dr Olivia 56:52

It's so interesting. And it parallels what we talked about earlier with parenting in the home as well, with consequences, punishments, and rewards and also praise. There's such a link, and you know, what works at home works at school, and having that consistency. I would love, I mean, it must have been super interesting to introduce those teachers to each other and be like, let's talk about Johnny, you know.

SPEAKER_00 57:12

They're all there listening to each other. I'm sure they're like, what? You know, so it's it's always interesting to go to those meetings, you know. Yeah.

unknown 57:20

Yeah.

Dr Olivia 57:20

It's a it's a looking in the mirror kind of thing when you realize that actually it's not the child that's the problem, it's it's it's you that's the problem.

SPEAKER_00 57:27

That's hard to acknowledge, but it's it's really good work that we can do with people.

Dr Olivia 57:31

It happens as well with parents. I have to say, like my parenting manual had to be ripped up and thrown away. And it's the same thing with the kind of dictorial kind of manual that you have as a teacher. You also have it, you know, the way I was trained as a doctor was the same way. I tell you what pills to take, I tell you what's wrong with you, and you will listen to what I'm saying. When I was training in Ireland, they said to me, Ah, Jesus, don't tell the patient what's wrong with them. Lotly upset them. You know, we know what's best for them. It doesn't work. Patients don't listen, they don't take the pills, they don't listen to anything you have to say, you know. You have to use health coaching, you have to bring people on board. It's this, and it's the same thing with parenting. Being a dictator, authoritarian parent doesn't work, particularly not with ADHD kids. And it's the same with teaching as well. And as you said with that beautiful example, you can go from a kid who's kicking off being true and probably about to be expelled from school, to a kid who's excelling, getting the best grades, being the best support in class. So, you know, I think we learn more from our children as both doctors, teachers, and parents than we will ever teach them. You know, um, they teach us how to see the right way, the way to support, and not just to be in our own egos. And I think that's really important. And our ADHD years teach us that.

SPEAKER_00 58:47

I love that. I absolutely agree with you. We just have to be willing. We have to be willing to learn and be paying attention, you know, to what they're trying to teach us.

Dr Olivia 58:55

Unfortunately, the pain gets so bad that you have to learn, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 58:59

You'll it it they'll force you.

Hope Beyond Grades And Final Takeaways

Dr Olivia 59:01

Yeah, exactly. I don't really think there's a choice. Will happen eventually. And you've gone through seven children, which is absolutely fantastic and amazing. As we wrap up here, thank you so much for coming today. What what is one thing that you could that you would wish that every parent of an ADHD teenager knew?

SPEAKER_00 59:22

Well, that it gets better. I mean, I feel like the teenagers were the hardest. It was it was challenging. They struggle in school, there's social anxieties, some of my children weren't invited to birthday parties or didn't get asked to dances, you know. Um, there's every every journey looks a little bit different, but there will be struggles. They're a lot of times they're just a little bit behind. They're masking hard, they're trying to fit in. I can guarantee they're in pain, at least somewhere. It doesn't matter how confident they look on the outside, they're constantly comparing what they're doing wrong, what they're not as good at. I mean, I remember just being in a really low math class, then lower than all of my friends in junior high was humiliating for me. I never told a soul. My mom had no idea. She just knew I wasn't good at math. Every single day at school, I was trying to hide in the hall so nobody saw me walk in there. I mean, there are things like that going on on the daily for these kids. And a lot of time those kinds of things are taking up all of their energy instead of schoolwork or getting good grades. And everything in their life right now feels like a nag. Chores, homework, bedtime, brushing your teeth, remembering this thing, doing that thing. And so uh, you know, these kids, I'll always tell my teenage clients that I work with, you just wait until you get out of school. That's when you're gonna shine. Because when you look at someone who has ADHD and they can overcome their self-confidence issues and the things that, you know, the whatever it is, the the inability to focus for long periods of time, they can learn to do that differently. But once they get to that point, when you ask an ADHD or is there anything you couldn't do? If you could get your brain engaged and stay engaged, is there anything you couldn't do? Almost every single person will say no. There's nothing that I that I couldn't do. They make fantastic entrepreneurs, they're they're highly intelligent, they're out-of-the-box thinkers, they have great intuition that they are going to be just fine. But it's the struggle along the way. What is our role with them? Are we a support? Are we holding them back because of the expectations that we're putting on them? Or even I don't believe in expressing disappointment. I never tell my kids I'm disappointed in them. I tell them no matter what they do, I will never be disappointed in them. Uh, I might not approve of their behavior, but disappointment is that our own needs aren't being met. And I never want my children to feel that they have to perform for my feelings. I always want them to be encouraged to do things because of the way it will make them feel. So just know that teenagers are hard for an ADHDer, but they're going to do just fine. It's amazing what happens to them when they get outside of high school and they realize, oh, I can create what I want now. If I can use my brain to do the things that I'm good at, it's like just wait. I I don't care near as much about grades as I used to. Because for ADHDers, that's not that's not uh an indication of how smart they are or how successful they're going to be.

Dr Olivia 1:02:21

And and you know, I I uh you speak to the converted here. I I always tell uh my listeners, don't worry about homework. You know, homework has never homework and grades have never been an indicator of success. I hate to tell you, the research does not support it, but yet we are convinced as parents that that is the ultimate thing that has to happen. No, everything that we've talked about today in this podcast, that emotional well-being, that ability to feel good about yourself, that ability to, you know, know that you're doing a good job, to get those compliments, that's what we need to focus on because that's what's actually gonna make great adults. So thank you so much, Jerry. I have loved speaking to you today. And you've, you know, I I I you know, there is hope that there will be at the end of the teenage years, and hopefully, you look way too young to have seven children, some in their 30s.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:12

Oh, thank you. Thank you.

Dr Olivia 1:03:14

I appreciate that. And all of your details and stuff for people to reach out to you will be in the show notes. Um, you do you just handle uh teenagers or do you uh do other age groups as well?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:24

I do, you know, I do all age groups as well. So I have um yeah, I have one-on-one coaching and I also do uh for adults, I have group cohorts, and those have been really helpful where we're doing live sessions and one-on-one sessions. And so all of that information can be found on my website. And I have uh I have some some some goodies there as well, like an RSD webinar and things like that for people who want to learn more.

Dr Olivia 1:03:47

Brilliant. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. It's been an absolute pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:52

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me and for having this important conversation. I really appreciate it.

Dr Olivia 1:03:57

Thank you for listening, Send Parenting Tribe. I hope you enjoyed this episode on ADHD and teenagers. It can be so hard to navigate, but I think all the tips, tools, and strategies can be implemented and to realize that you are not alone. Wishing you all a great week ahead.