Why Screens Win and What Actually Works Instead with Ekta Khera

In today’s attention economy, parenting has never been more challenging. Our children are surrounded by gadgets, technology and screens actively trying to distract them from you.

And they’re really good at it!

So what do we do about screen time, how much is too much, why do our kids always prefer to look at their screens over the world around them - or us - and what can you do about it?

I am joined by Ekta Khera, illustrator and founder of Tiny Thinks, to discuss the big questions around screen time looming over every parent today.

Together, Dr. Olivia and Ekta discuss:
 ✨ Encouraging children to think deeper

 ✨ Creating realistic alternatives and harnessing the hyperfocus

 ✨ Supporting neurodiversity with non-screen based activities

 ✨ Why Cocomelon is evil

 ✨ How to build an offline world that helps kids thrive

 ✨ The importance of curiosity and progress

🤝Contact Ekta and find out more about her work at ourtinythinks.com 

💛 If this episode resonated with you, please share it with someone who needs to hear it.

📚 New Book — Out Now  👉 Order your copy
Beyond the Label: Empowering Parents of ADHD Girls
A powerful blend of science and lived experience to help you truly understand and support your daughter.

💬 Connect with Us

🌱 Join our SEND Parenting Private WhatsApp Community — a free, safe, welcoming space to share, learn, and feel supported by parents who truly understand the realities of neurodiverse family life.

⚡ Ready to go deeper?
Become part of the ADHD Warrior Mum’s Membership — a paid membership space with group coaching with Dr Olivia, access to masterclasses with neurodiverse experts, monthly self-care and real connection. You don't have to navigate this journey alone.

📩 Contact Me
If you wou...

Transcript

Welcome And The Screen Dilemma

Dr Olivia 0:04

Welcome to the Zen Parenting Podcast, focused on supporting, inspiring, and empowering parents and their neurodiverse children. I'm your neurodiverse host, Dr. Olivia Kessel. We'll be speaking weekly with experts in the world of neurodiversity, and most importantly, hearing the voices of other parents just like you. Looking forward to having you join us weekly as part of the Sten Parenting Tribe. So, welcome, Etka. It is such a pleasure to have you on the SEN Parenting podcast today to talk about something that a lot of parents worry about, which is using screens for peace and quiet when you're out and about with your kids, whether that be in a restaurant or traveling or even in the supermarket, you know, and what you can do instead. And that's kind of what we're going to get into today. And it's not about blaming parents who, you know, we've we've all been guilty of it, but it's exploring other options. And I'm really excited. Um, we're also going to talk a little bit about your early foundations workbook here. Um, but first let's start out with your journey and what brought you to where you are today and and and you know, looking at screen times.

A Long Flight Sparks A Solution

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Yeah, so actually I was prepping for a long haul flight and it was a little bit of a challenge because it was uh with all the you know the the the blocking of routes, etc., with the flights, that flight time went from six to eleven hours. So we thought, okay, we really need to figure out because we can and it was a daytime flight. So I uh designed like this Halloween edition because my daughter was really interested in cats and like monsters or whatever, like you know, so I and I am an illustrator and uh designer by background, so I designed these for her, and she re while I was designing, she was really interested in me designing those versus the TV that was on. So she was giving me all this input of like how um no, the the scarf should not be here, it should be there, because there is you know like a little bimsy in the in the kids' uh versions. So yeah, with all of that, I thought, okay, maybe let's just take it next next step of like let's print it, let's try it. And it was so successful that I started printing a couple of copies and giving it to my friends, and I thought, okay, do you want to try it? Maybe like I would really like this feedback. And I got a lot of feedback, like you know, like some things that I could improve, and it was really like a very surprising um uh journey for me. And then I was like, okay, I'm gonna do Christmas edition, and that's how you know that's how every month to to to just rewind a bit here because no one else can see this lovely book that you you sent to me.

Dr Olivia 2:55

So this this kind of book was created kind of out of necessity, it sounds like, with your your own daughter. May I ask how old your daughter is? Or what yeah, she's almost four.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Yeah, at that time she was three. Yeah.

Dr Olivia 3:06

Okay, so so young child, and and you created like uh it's through your illustrator background, and it's it's a workbook that has take us through like what what kind of things would parents find in this workbook for kids to

Designing Challenges Kids Stick With

Dr Olivia 3:17

do?

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Yeah, so basically the the workbook is basically a progression. So because every child is uh like someone could be a much uh more um uh inclined towards drawing, or someone is more inclined towards something else. So what this book does is gives all of those options, but then it builds a cognitive element to it. So the child is not just, for example, tracing a path, the child is choosing the longer path. So actually, my uh my cousin is a clinical psychologist in US in Arizona, and so yeah, I used to discuss with him okay, what can we add that helps them in a way that they stick with the challenge, they don't give up because in life or in general, you want your child to have resilience, and so you want to have them be okay with being challenged. So I wanted to have this level where the child is challenged, but also wants to stick with it to till the end to solve it, follow through, and that is why I built this into progressive activities, so all kinds of challenges, like it could be a maze, it could be, like I said, choosing the longer line, or it can be about where what fits, or how can you match certain things, not based on color or just half and half, but then on the deeper meaning of if you think about it, what would fit where, you know? So to have that next level of thinking deeper.

Dr Olivia 4:48

So it's engaging the child like a screen would, but then it's also educational in that it's teaching kind of some life lessons, some knowledge, some cognitive functioning, and things like that. How what has the response been like with with other families that have used it?

SPEAKER_00 5:03

It's been super nice. So because uh you want not just that it's great, you want to know feedback, you want to understand that how can I improve it? Like, why was this activity not something that they wanted to do? What can I improve? So it's a little bit about thinking of it as a screen. So, why is a child engaging with one screen uh show versus another? So, you want to have that that sensation for the child to want to get that challenge. So that's what I wanted from these uh these discussions with moms. I wanted feedback, I wanted to know which one was working, what was not working, how can I improve it? Because every month I had the opportunity to improve it. So that is that is exactly what I did. So I had like some moms said, like it's games, it's like games on a page. Another one said, Oh, my daughter just saw this, didn't want to do it at the time, but then later she was looking for something and she grabbed this again and again. And then another one said, We were about to travel, and my son, who had finished the entire workbook, put that workbook back into the suitcase, and that's when he ordered a second one. So I got these feedback, but as well, of course, you know, you want to improve. So I got I I pushed for okay, how can I improve? What is what is missing? What is happening?

Dr Olivia 6:23

And you know, it's fantastic. And I, you know, I was telling you before we got on this podcast that, you know, I'd left this out, and I, you know, I have a I had a 14-year-old and a 15-year-old actually coming over to my house, and they started, they picked it up and they started playing with it and enjoying it and using it. Uh so it's you know they're still young at heart, but um, it is true that you know you can't, it's providing your kids with opportunities outside of just screen time. Like I think there's a time and a place for screen time, but there's also a time and a place for something different. And even if you just have screens, when you're going on a long journey, your batteries are gonna run out. You know, I remember being, you know, crossing the Irish uh seas on the ferry and there was nowhere to plug in the devices, you know. So you are stuck. But also they get bored of their devices as well. So providing a different activity that can get them engrossed in it that they enjoy that is outside of screen time, but engages them and gets them that they pick it up and do it themselves is a fantastic kind of way to balance screen time versus non-screen time.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Yeah, and what I'm noticing is also that kids want to be challenged. Kids want that. Like, I mean, you must have seen when your child was growing up, like suddenly your child was wanting to do things that they were not doing, right?

Real-Life Alternatives For Outings

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Like, for example, walking or talking and finding new words, because we are wired to learn and we are curious and we want to fit into the real world, right? And that is the thing, like if you give the child that opportunity, and obviously they have that inherent desire to be curious, to learn, then they have that option. So I understand that parents feel stuck in the screen cycle, and it's not because they're doing anything wrong. And most advice is if they look for advice, it focuses on limiting screen times. Okay, so you do one hour, you do 30 minutes. But what I really see is it's really about how attention is developing. So some children naturally think differently, they can go very deep, they get absorbed, or they struggle to uh shift their attention, and all those traits are often a challenge uh on their own and very early on. So we want that those same traits, if supported and when supported, can become real strengths in later in life. So from this this whole brand and the books, the question is are we building environments that support that kind of thinking, you know, or replacing it with constant stimulation? So this is what I am thinking. I want to build a world which is offline, which is challenging, but in in a in a nurturing way. You don't want to push your child to do something that they're not ready for. So it has to be paced, it has to be right for their age, and that's why I build the progression because most workbooks, if you go out there, it's three to five and six to eight, and then from six onwards, it's apps, a lot of apps. Apps to do this, apps to learn. And as parents, you don't really want to do that, but you think you have to because you don't have options and want to give that option.

Dr Olivia 9:33

Yeah, no, it's true. And it's it's it's creating a an alternate to screen time. Um, and there's other alternatives too, that don't cognitively engage the child as much. But even doing coloring or doing, I don't know, making bracelets. When I take long car trips with my child, I'll have a bag of goodies. And sometimes I even wrap them. And so, like every hour she'll get a present and it'll be an activity. The car looks like an absolute disaster afterwards, but you know, it's so that you're not constantly on the screen. You can do this in restaurants too. I've been to restaurants where, you know, really fancy restaurants with her when she was two and a half years old, and it's like three and a half hours of course after course. And they were horrified that I brought her to this restaurant, the fat duck, actually, in England. And I didn't realize that I shouldn't have brought her either. I was new to the country. And I have my dad, who's probably undiagnosed ADHD as well. He's not good at sitting for three and a half hours. I didn't bring him a bag of goodies, but I brought her a bag of goodies, and she was busy the whole time. And in fact, they asked her to, they said, Did you know come back and see the chef and meet the kitchen? My father, on the other hand, was tapping his feet, moving in his chair. It's like we've been here too long, you know. So I like what you're saying about, you know, harnessing kids hyper focused. You know that my listeners have a lot of neurospicy kids, harnessing um their desire to be challenged and do something, which is really where that dopamine hit comes from, and they get that really a lot from the device, and then channeling it into something that's actually helping them go on to get some skills and and broaden their knowledge outside of the screen world.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Yeah, absolutely. In the in the world our kids are growing into that is going to reward people who's gonna who can focus, who can think independently, who can stay with something, and even if there's no reward, you know? And even, I mean, in future with AI world, I mean, this type of kids who can just focus and think independently, they will be okay, you know, because they are able to not think like the masses. They are able to, they have they're not their attention until the age of seven has not been trained with only one thing of screens. They have been trained with different role-play games, they have been trained with different, like you said, like beating. I mean, that's such a good example of like just, you know, it's so calming. Just to do the beating. It's super coming.

Dr Olivia 11:53

It's great for fine motor. Yeah. Which is often a problem in kids, you know, especially neurodiverse kids. Fine motor is is is an issue, you know. Um, and then they also get beautiful bracelets that they can give to their friends, so it becomes a social thing. Um, and as they get older, it can become more complex bracelets and things like that as well. So it's it's um opening up the world for them outside of just screens. And it is interesting that you say I didn't even I hadn't even thought about that. Like, and looking at my daughter now, who's 14, you know, I look at adult coloring books or you know, it's puzzles for adults. There is there really is a gap between when they're eight years old and when they get older of things that they can do outside of the computer, really.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Yes, it exactly. I've I haven't reached that age myself, but when I was doing my research, man, like from seven, it's all apps. You talk about I don't actually want that. So that that that there's that gap where the the the the consumer is not actually being heard. And I feel that once you see that a focus can really make your child win, once you see that the resilience can help your child, you know, and it's not about controlling their behavior, it's more about building that ability to be able to do that.

Dr Olivia 13:08

I think also, like, you know, we do need a break from our children and we do need them to kind of um it it is boring, you know. It it traveling is boring, and you know, being in a car is boring, being in an airplane is boring. Sitting at a a restaurant with people that you know you don't understand what they're saying, it's boring too. So it's providing entertainment that's not just in a screen, and kids actually like it. And the proof is in the pudding from your one of your consumers who whose child put it in their bag. My daughter's going away on a school trip and I said, look, you're you're gonna get bored. We need to pack a bag full of things that you can do, other than, and luckily when they get older, they can read books as well. So that can be added into the mix as well. But you want that variety and that ability to do different things and to educate your child that that's possible, you know. What if the Wi-Fi went? What if there was no power? What would you do? You know? Um, but you also want to be able to sit down and have a nice dinner with your friend. You want to be able to go on an airplane and not be the parent that everyone's looking at while your child has a complete meltdown. So these are things you have to introduce, I would say, before you go on that long journey or before you go to a fancy restaurant, you know, start introducing this as something that they know and they can go to and they can enjoy outside of stressful environments.

Building Attention Before Age Seven

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Absolutely. And interestingly, while you know, going to a restaurant or um travel, those are things that we sort of need to do, right? With my daughter, what I tested as well, uh not just tested, I mean, we actually made it a routine in the Netherlands. So I live in the Netherlands, right? And we have a thing called Mama Dag, which means one day that you take care of your child and you get like a certain amount of pay for that day, but you are basically for your child, so you're days a week. Yeah, it's amazing. And that's every week, and every week. So you get, I mean, you get a big chunk. Um, you can use it as you want until the child is nine years of age, as you want, and most people or most people who can they use it once a week, which means that one day a papa day, and one day is a mama day, and one day is a grandparent day, so the child goes to school maybe two days uh to daycare. So um that's that's pretty much amazing. It's amazing. So in on Fridays, that was my mama dach, and I was um like, okay, what do I do with her? Like, I I I am running short of ideas, like she doesn't want to stay home, and how much can you play outside with the rain? So um I said I really like matcha. Why don't I take her to a cafe? And I will take some things with me that that I can pack in, like you know, you said beads, that's that's one example, but also like uh you know the little play-doh uh things and all kinds of little things, and then we would just sit there and she would do that, and that worked so beautifully. And then I introduced my book, and that worked really well, while others didn't, and I was like, wait a minute, I think I'm doing something right, I need to test why why it's going well as well. And my daughter would sit one hour and just finish the book, she doesn't want to do anything else, she wants to finish that book, and then next one that I'm designing, she wants to sit next to me and then guide me through what a child likes, and then there's the second book that she wants to do that. So once every month on a Friday, that was the routine, and it was so nice. I'm having my matcha just guiding her lightly, you know, with a little example, and she's just doing the book, and I felt like it felt like that was a moment which I would forever remember as going out with my friend, you know. And that's she's older, she's not even four yet, and I already feel that. So that that was also something we were able to build just because of this idea of going out, but then enjoying going out together.

Dr Olivia 16:59

Yeah, it's it it's fantastic, and uh it's nice, you know, uh to have a little friend in your little in your little girl and to be able to enjoy some time also to enjoy your matcha tea. Exactly. I I don't know how long you're you you've had these books out for, but have you given them to neurodiverse kids or um have most of your kids been neurotypical? I I would say it applies to both, but I mean, do you have you had experience in that?

SPEAKER_00 17:25

So I did give it to some daycares actually for their um kids' uh corner, like the library corner. Um they have those in uh in the Netherlands. And I got very positive feedback also for the kids who were not able to uh like in one case was not able to stay calm. And in one case, in one of the groups, the whenever the children were waiting for the parents, that time was very hard for them because they sort of felt that it was almost five, six, and then they they couldn't really hold it together. And at that time, I I uh got the feedback that that that book really works in this transition period where there's just not that much activity that you can open up because half the kids are leaving, and you know, but there is this one thing that if you open like at least 80% of the kids at the same time want to sit and do it together. So that felt like okay, that's really nice because if a child who is not calm is feeling calm because they're waiting for the parents, and I mean I did not ask if there was a child who was neurodivergent specifically, but I understood that there was a group um, you know, with all kinds of different kids, and for 80% of them it went well. So that for me was already like, okay, this is this is going well.

Dr Olivia 18:40

Well, and my the two kids that tested in my house were neurodiverse and they they enjoyed it too. Um, so I think you know, it is interesting how in high stress situations or when you're not calm, doing something, you know, that engages you, you know, they've they they've shown it with coloring already, but this is more of an activity and and and and thinking thing, it engages you. And, you know, for my two kids that were home, they were they were bored, they'd already done everything. Now what do we do? You know, and I'm not letting them, you know, go on Minecraft or Roblox. So what do we do now? Okay, we'll we'll do this. And then they enjoy doing it, you know, and they they you know, and I said, Oh, good, you can give me give me feedback for Ecta when I go on the podcast with her. And they did. And I'll probably pack that in the bag for her when she goes to Paris because she's gonna be on a bus and a ferry for a long period of time. But I think that it focuses the nervous system and it can take it out of that fight or flight kind of response and then activate the sympathetic and that concentration goes in. And with neurodiverse kids hyper-focusing on something they enjoy is really good. And you have different themes, which I think is nice. So you have spring, you have space, I don't know what other ones you have, but you have different things of interest that different, you know, if a kid loves space or if they love nature that they can get involved with. And your and your drawings are fantastic, they're really lovely.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Thank you. Yeah, it do it takes me a long time to think about this the world that I want to create for that theme, you know, and I I feel very very happy doing that. I I really like to make something that is light and airy, and for little kids it's more whimsical, for a bit older kids it's a little bit more bit more science-y effect. And so, yeah, I really enjoy thinking for the children because I really want them to feel that they're in that world. And if they're, for example, they were in farm animals, we have haystacks. The puzzle is about which hays stocks do they need to jump over or something to reach a certain carrot or whatever, and that world really feels like they have to do that jump, and you know, to build that feeling.

Why Fast Content Hooks Young Brains

SPEAKER_00 20:46

It this is just something I I think is so important because screens are really evolving in terms of all kinds of uh illustrations and all kinds of speed and the angles constantly changing. I mean, you must have heard about coconut as well, right? Like the screens are constantly changing. So I want to make sure what coconut is. Oh, you don't know cocoa melon? No, I don't. That's like the evil of uh our uh little kids' generation. So it's uh actually it's a nice show. It's uh it's like a nice little musical. There's constantly music um in in terms of it's like a song version of talking. Okay. The only thing is that the screen never stays still, it's like going from this angle, then keeps moving like this, then goes back like this, then goes back like this. It gives the sense of there's something more happening, there's something more happening, there's something more happening in that way, non stop, and that makes the child I mean, there's a lot of research around it, yes, because the child is constantly thinking something is coming while the screen is just shifting focus within that same screen, and what I Also notice is that in YouTube, um, YouTube kids is really they have picked up on that people who are making home videos, they're doing the same thing now, and it's really, really not good for kids.

Dr Olivia 22:13

You're always waiting for the next one. I mean, I had to ban it actually from my daughter because her personality changed with YouTube kids, even. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely, exactly. Which you would think, I thought originally, oh, that's say if it's YouTube kids, at least there's no harmful content. But no, it's that constant stimulation. And what's also the content I have to say as well, you know, these I I hate to say it, I'm American, so I can't I'm part American. I don't like to admit being American, but I sound American. But, you know, and it's these kids ripping open presents and and their behavior, you know, the what they're also showing isn't good for children to absorb in mass quantities. Um, so yeah, it's very addictive. And I don't think we think of YouTube sometimes as social media, but it is social media.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Absolutely. It's the algorithm is yeah, I don't I mean, we don't have to go too deep into it, but basically we want to make sure that that the kids' thinking patterns are not getting overridden by this content. They are not becoming consumers of information or content or fast-based shows that trains their attention by the age of seven, their wiring is done, like the the base wiring, right? And if you if you ensure that you don't give them that, you are basically saving them from a lot of pain, a lot of delayed gratification issues and all kinds of issues further in life. So we want to make sure that we are overriding on that fast content if they ever, because we sometimes have to give. We want to make sure that that is not the wiring that they get.

Dr Olivia 23:48

Yeah, and that's it, not the only thing that they see and the only thing that they get exposed to.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Absolutely.

Dr Olivia 23:52

So, in terms of ages, what what are your plans? So, you what kind of ages are you doing? Where do you plan to go?

SPEAKER_00 23:59

So, my my vision for this is really evolving the offline world. That is the vision. So, how can we make sure that the offline world is not only interesting, but also is a very good alternative, and it provides that deeper focus and attention that that that can erode. I mean, we my generation, so I'm 35 now. My generation, we got mobiles when we were 18, 19 or something, 16 above. So for 16 years, we did not have this fast consumption modules in our life. Even then, we are addicted to Instagram, right? I mean, I'm not addicted, I would say, but we do want to see the news, we do want to um go through what's happening, and then we do get the algorithms showing us things, even though we started at the age of 17, 18. So if our children are getting that at you with YouTube kids or with other things already at two, three, four, or five, whatever um age uh we do, we want to ensure that at least it's minimal and we are giving the good thing as well, the good food, besides the little junk food that we cannot really help sometimes.

Dr Olivia 25:15

Yeah, there was a study recently published actually in the UK regarding that, and in terms of you know, actually not having access to devices before a certain age, that you know, that that's that's beneficial. Um, but in the reality of it, I think, you know, it's kind of like it's hard for parents. But I think having the other options, and what's interesting, you know, having the other options, your child will reach for other options as well if there are other options. And there also are boundaries with with devices because they are addictive. So you do need to put the boundaries in because otherwise it doesn't work. I'm lucky, I'm I'm much older than you. And so I never was raised on social media and I just don't find it interesting. Like I, you know, it just it's it's one addiction I don't have. Chocolate, I have, but not uh, you know, but even watching something like Netflix, for me, I can get a Netflix hangover because it keeps going, oh, next episode in in five seconds. And before you've even thought processed, do I want to watch it playing? And so, oh, well, I'll just watch it. And then it's 2 a.m. in the morning and you've lost your entire night and you know, you've finished the whole box set. So that's on a very small scale. Kids get that with YouTube constantly, you know. So it's it's so you are you really focusing on the like under sevens kind of, or are you also because you you you said after eight or nine there isn't really anything available. Do you see yourself going into like older kids or stopping at like eight or nine?

SPEAKER_00 26:39

I do want to go ahead as well, but I want to first get it right for this age because I I am having a child at this age for at this age and I understand the dynamics at this age, and I feel I really can capture very well the the the world that we are in in in the sense of uh what would a child like at this age. And I what I am focused on is this attention building, and I and I think that is really until the age of seven, where you you can really go all out and start building it slowly and uh help them be comfortable with effort to uh stay with something even if it's difficult, you know, to to have that I think is so important uh as a base foundation before any any yeah rocket launch.

Getting Unstuck From Screen Battles

Dr Olivia 27:38

Yeah, that's so true. What would you say to any parents that are feeling really stuck in like screen battles right now?

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Look for alternatives, and you're not alone. If we are all like we are all in this, like we none of us know. I mean, we also know for a fact that all the CEOs who are building algorithms and are um sanctioning them as uh this is okay or this is not okay, they don't allow their own kids for most of the things. So we need to be aware and also be real we need to realize that we're all in this and let's you know talk about it and push our schools and push our um communities to really remove that from our uh everyday life in that way, and that also means that we ourselves show a good example, but again, it is the real world, so I also know that, and that's why I say just let's keep looking for alternatives, and um if someone doesn't find an alternative, then build it because we all need that, right? I mean, we I think there isn't enough of that.

Dr Olivia 28:51

Yeah, and it's it's it's teaching your kids also to be curious about things, you know, it's and and having them reach for things that are of interest to them that they want to do and pursue and and and engage in outside of screens. And uh it does start at home too, because I know you know a lot of us are addicted to our screens who are having kids right now. I actually met um, there's a 90-year-old woman who I meet on a dog walk, and she's usually sitting on a bench and I sat next to her and I said, How was your Easter? She said, Oh, it was lovely. You know, uh went and stayed with my son and you know, he's got a 12-year-old and a 17-year-old, and they were playing cards and they taught me how to play cards. And I was like, Wow, that is really great. You know, uh I always carry a deck of cards because we can play cards wherever and there's, you know, tons of different games you can play. And I said, That's so fantastic that they weren't on screens. She said, Yeah, but the mom, she's always on her screen. And you know what? Our kids model us. I, you know, my daughter will, if I have my phone, she'll be like, no, we're not allowed phones by the, you know, if we watch TV, we don't we don't have devices because then you're not watching it together, you're not getting into the movie, your your attention is fractured. Absolutely. So I think this has just been such a wonderful, wonderful um discussion. If you could uh tell my listeners what's one shift that they could make that would have a meaningful difference.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

I think find what what are your child's abilities and what are they where do they feel capable? Because children return to things where they feel capable, especially with deep focus, or if you have the right kind of activity, and if that activity engages them and they feel capable when they solve it, or when they feel they can do that with their friends, like you said, your uh your daughter and a friend did it together. I mean, that's the kind of thing you're looking for, that capability and intersecting with their friends also wanting similar things. You have a nice little circle where they also empower each other to let screens be.

Dr Olivia 30:50

Yeah. Wise words, wise words.

Workbooks, Links, And What’s Next

Dr Olivia 30:53

Well, and all of these are available online on Amazon. Um, and I will include the the links in the show notes. And so you are just constantly under creation, it sounds like. So we'll be seeing more and more come out.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

Absolutely. Yes, I would love that we build it into a subscription model where you know, when I was a child, I used to have this one book uh that used to come in, and I was doing all the, I mean, it had comics and stories and everything, and it was just the best book. And then once I had a little collection, then I was like becoming the teacher, giving it to students. It was just yeah, I mean, you can there is a lot to do, but uh it starts with really the the fact that you want to build attention in your child and progressively build their capabilities. I love the idea of a subscription model.

Dr Olivia 31:40

I remember having one with National Geographic.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

I'm a big nerd, but you know, I would look forward to that coming every month. Exactly. And so for our kids, we are we are our subscription model is like YouTube uh premium and prime and uh you know uh the the what's the Netflix kids. I mean, let's think of it another way, like let's also um yeah go offline and think okay, what subscriptions are there for kids? And there are there are out there.

Dr Olivia 32:08

That's fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing your time with us today. It's been a pleasure speaking with you.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

Thank you. It was really nice speaking with you. Thank you for the time, Olivia.