The Leader Mentality
The Leader Mentality
Beyond Transactions: Building Genuine Relationships to Close Deals
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
We explore how the best salespeople don't actually "sell" but instead educate, solve problems, and build genuine relationships with clients.
• Great salespeople are relational, not transactional
• Your vibe attracts your tribe – authenticity builds magnetic attraction
• Knowledge isn't power, applied knowledge is power
• Listen your way inside a person's world instead of talking at them
• Mirror and match communication styles to build stronger connections
• Self-inventory after each interaction improves future performance
• "No" simply stands for "next opportunity" – don't take rejection personally
• Success isn't a straight line – embrace the ups and downs
• Your perspective can be your assistant or your assassin
• Sustainable change comes from within – help customers discover solutions
• A broken crayon still colors – give yourself grace through challenges
Connect with Lonnie Daniels through the Leader Mentality Show for training opportunities for your sales team.
Introduction: Sales Without Being Salesy
Speaker 1All right, welcome to the Leader Mentality Show. It is Rob Clemens here again with you, and today I've got a show that I think every single business owner needs to be listening to. I think every single leader needs to be listening to, because we all need to know how to express ourselves ideally for letting people know why they would use our services. You know, if you got into business, why are you in business if nobody knows why they need to use you? And sometimes in our efforts to do this for our own selves or when we're hiring people we start talking about, I want you to be a better salesperson, but many people have this misunderstanding of what sales are. They believe sales are I'm going to trick somebody into buying my product. I'm going to beat another person and make you buy mine over theirs.
Speaker 1But the real deal is a great salesperson is doing exactly the opposite of that. They don't go into this thing thinking how am I going to sell you? They go in thinking how am I going to educate you? They go in thinking how am I going to solve your problem? They go in thinking how do I relate with you the best I can so that you feel like I might be able to solve your issue. So we have a guy on here today and it's what he does for a living. He helps people to get their organizations, their teams, built properly so that they can do exactly that Express why they would use you instead of the next person and so I'm excited to introduce you guys to this person. His name is Lonnie Daniels. He's a trainer and we're going to talk all about some how to be a salesperson without being a salesperson. Welcome to the show, lonnie my pleasure.
Speaker 1Man well, I first met Lonnie a while back because he was doing some real estate training One of my agents that works for one of the companies I own. He actually came through, Lonnie, and he was spitting. He was singing your praises, man, he goes, this guy Lonnie. He had us going, he was teaching us and I didn't have to pay him this time, you didn't have to pay him Not a penny.
Speaker 2Didn't have to pay him this time to say it.
Speaker 1Not a penny for him to say it Didn't have to pay him this time. And this is actually one of the best salespeople, I have no doubt. I mean, and he hit the ground running in a very tough industry. And Frank Dominick, some of you guys know him, he helps with the show. But anyway, lonnie, what all you been up to lately. Man, I know you're a busy guy.
Speaker 2Yeah, helping people. Helping people Make those intelligent and informed decisions between North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia. Just help them understand people by people before they buy product. Getting that buy-in, Because it's easier for people to buy in when they've had the opportunity to weigh in. So it's encouraging leaders how to just talk to our people, not talk at them.
Speaker 1There's a difference.
Speaker 2So it's maybe just to help that individual Mindset over skill set.
Speaker 1Okay, and I like that, and we're going to talk a little bit about mindset over skill set. You, you know, I think even before you came on to the show today, you said you were you're speaking to a group or something that would training, okay, training some individuals on some Charlestonians okay, okay, charleston and Beaufort again, this happened them.
Speaker 2It was some land. Yeah, yeah, just encouraging them. You never wait to buy land. You buy a land and wait, okay, okay, that's another conversation for another day. Yeah, yeah, but it's again just helping them understand the point of having a vision, because whenever you have more than one vision, you have a division. So it's just important, it's paramount, just keeping yourself surrounded with people whose energy is positive and infectious To your point.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no for sure. It's super important that when you get into a group environment that you have to I mean, kind of let them know what the vision is, you know? I mean, first of all they have to know what the vision is, and this goes all the way from recruiting. I used to tell people, when you're, when you're hiring new people, you you seek these people out, you try to find ones who you believe can see your vision, and those are the people that you want to invest the time in to train, and so that's why I'm really fascinated.
Speaker 1I wanted to bring you on today to talk a little bit about that, because you meet so many people on a day-to-day line. You meet so many people that you're talking to that think they're going to make the next million dollars by doing XYZ, and so I want to talk a little bit about how you find those people. So you do training all over the place. You talked about Beaufort, charleston. Do you travel to these remote locations or you just have them all come and meet you here in Myrtle Beach? I travel.
Speaker 2They send me contact information or reach out to me between Charleston, beaufort every now and then, denver, colorado, wow, becker Ridge, fort Carson, colorado, prior military.
Speaker 1How does that happen? Like, how did you? Like, you're primarily based in South Carolina and then all of a sudden somebody says can you come to Colorado? How did that happen?
Speaker 2Relationships, okay, relationships, relationships. I often hear people say it's not what you know, but who you know. Yeah, that's not necessarily completely true. It's not necessarily what you know, necessarily Not even who you know, but who knows you. So we have to do our part, not to be a secret agent, but to get out there, allow people to get to know you. So just having those relationships because life happens at the speed of relationships You're only one relationship away from your whole landscape changing.
Speaker 1I mean, when you say that Lonnie. I.
Relationships Over Transactions
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, for sure, you're only one relationship away. Yeah, your whole landscape changes.
Speaker 1I mean, when you say that, lonnie, I mean, look, let's break it down. And I'm going to get back into what all you've been doing, because I want to hear about Colorado, I want to hear about how you're getting to travel man, I want the people to know what this guy's up to. But listen, you said something important. You know you got to say a lot of important things. You said something important. You said a lot of important things. I'm trying to pull one out that I thought was really cool.
Speaker 1I find a lot of people and, look, if you're a person out there and you want to be great at sales, eventually you want to be a great manager, you want to be a great leader. Never think you're too good for the job you're doing. The reason I say that is that people have heard me. If you listen to the show enough, if you ever worked at a company that I'm a manager, a leader, at, I tell you what you're doing today is your audition for tomorrow, always. So if you go in and you work in a fast food place and you think you're too good for that which, look, I know some smart people working in fast food. I've got much respect for people there. Much respect for people there. But if you think you're too good for that job, you show that on a day-to-day and that might be the thing that holds you back from getting your next level. I would tell you, if you're in a job you think you're too good for, prove it. Prove it by what you do on a day-to-day. Don't do less, do more. Show that you're better.
Speaker 1So when you said that thing, you said sometimes people are in these situations where you know they've got to. They got to show what they can do, because that next opportunity is that next person that meets you and so you know it could be the CEO of wherever that drives through and you're really nice to them at the drive-thru and they go wait a minute. So that's. That's pretty cool. I like that. So you go to places like Colorado and you talked about. It was the, the relationship. Somebody heard you. I think that's a lot of what makes real estate agents good. On your day-to-day, lonnie, what do you call home? I mean, where's home for you? Columbia, south Carolina?
Speaker 2Okay, all right, got you.
Speaker 1That's a bold.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1That's Columbia. That's where the home base of just where you lay your head down most often.
Speaker 2How many days? When are you home? Probably say between three out of about three out of five days, right because I have a wife and children.
Speaker 1Alright, nice.
Speaker 2Yeah, my, you know, success at the extent of your family is not true success. Right, right, right, that's my lifetime and achievement award, right, so, but yeah, about three to five Got to balance.
Speaker 1Okay, okay, got to balance. It's still tough, though, man. When you're traveling out of town. Do you stay overnight or do you drive all the way back to Columbia?
Speaker 2I check on my wife. Yeah, and you know she needs me. Yeah, I have to monitor and adjust. Yeah, yeah, obviously right. But she says, hey, everything's going great here, I keep being great elsewhere. Right, right, right, so yeah.
Speaker 1Man, this dude right here is consistent. You guys are going to hear it when we talk today. He's consistent because he said monitor and adjust. And you're talking about doing that with your wife, but monitor and adjust when you're dealing with potential clients of your company. You got to monitor and adjust. You know we meet somebody who's a real hard driver. Hard driver, you can't sit here and lay back and again, I don't want to spoil all your good stuff, but um well, lonnie, so how long have you been training for some?
Speaker 2capacity. I'm gonna say 2006, 2007, okay, yeah, and that's what I had to learn. Uh, success is not a straight line.
Speaker 1Okay, it's not a monitor oh yeah, success is not a straight line. Oh yeah, success is not a straight line.
Speaker 2Matter of fact, even when I look at the heartbeat, the mere fact is up and down right, because if you flatline, there's no more ups and downs in life. Oh man.
Speaker 1I agree completely. Lonnie and I were talking earlier. He kind of goes what's your logo all about? I always told people, I think, that every person in this life has something driving them. The biggest successes that we all want to be have a heartbeat. There's something driving them and sometimes it's driving them in a way that you don't even know. Sometimes you don't have the passion that they have to do that thing they're doing, so you won't get there because you don't have the passion that they have to do that thing they're doing, so you won't get there because you don't have that passion. I'll explain.
Speaker 1I was talking to people about the Rock. Everybody knows the Rock and pretty much, whether you like him or not, everybody knows who the Rock is Dwayne Johnson. He was a wrestler, he's been an actor. I said do you know that guy? He's legendary for waking up at 3.30 in the morning doing these three-hour workouts, working all day, and then goes to bed at 10, 30, 11 at night and starts all over the next day. Do you want to do that? Well, see, that's his heartbeat and what I would do if I were talking to Dwayne Johnson. I'd say why do you do what you do? And that's the mic. That's what I'm giving him, the mic. And so to that point you point. You say it's not linear. You know, there's there's downs, there's ups. There's a time that you, you failed and it felt like, absolutely, and how did you rebound? That's the up, that's it, and so that's what we like to talk about.
Speaker 2But but even think about what if a song only had high notes? I love that man for sure it's the song so melodic to some degree, right, it's not because of all the changes in it and the spice of life.
Speaker 1Dude, I like that right there. You know what I thought was interesting I heard I want to give credit to the right person. I want to say it might've been Gary Vee or it might've been one of those guys, but what they said was he said do you like playing Monopoly? Do you like playing Scrabble? Do you like playing whatever People are like? Yeah, I like playing. That he said do you like playing Monopoly? Do you like playing Scrabble? Do you like playing whatever People are like? Yeah, I like playing.
Speaker 1That he goes how would it feel if you always won? If you always won, would you want to keep playing it? And the answer is no, I won't want to play if I always won. And he said well, see, that's the way life works. You don't want to win all the time. Sometimes, when you lose, you learn, you get better, you get stronger and it gives you a challenge. Human beings, man, we love challenge, whether we know it or not. And the only thing I think Lonnie and we're going to talk a little bit about human beings and we're going to talk about personalities today, but I find it fascinating Somebody will play a video game and lose.
Speaker 1It could be like the most unmotivated person in the world. They play video games eight hours, 10 hours a day, but what are they doing? I'm accomplishing things, I'm getting killed and I'm starting back over because I want to go beat that boss. Well, you got it in you. You've got it in you right now to be a success, but you're just applying it in an interesting way. So, anyway, all right, I'm off on a tangent.
Speaker 2But that speaks volumes. It's already within you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, when from within Right Everything we need to succeed in life, it's already in us.
Speaker 1There you go, there you go. So how do you unleash that though? Oh man, see, now we're getting into deep stuff. How do you unleash that?
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, I don't necessarily think we have to unleash it, but in the right environment it actually releases itself to some degree.
Speaker 1Okay, I feel what you're saying and I agree with you completely. Now let me make an analogy. Yeah, okay, I go out into the desert. I got a bunch of sand around me. I drop a little sunflower seed, drop it in there, put some water on it.
Speaker 1Well, the potential was all there, but it wasn't in the right environment. All right, and I'm sure and I'm just coming up with this on the curb, on the fly, I'm sure somebody's probably made a more eloquent version of this before. Now I'll go drop it in the right soil with the right sunlight and all this, and now it flourishes, right. So what was the difference? The environment, and so to some extent, it's not like well, today I've got to just do better. So, great leaders, find the right environment for the right people, yeah, but my question to you is, though how do you find that person? Though? Because you train people every day, man, you must sit down and look at a room of people and go. I think this person get it. This person might not be in the right environment. How do you know, man?
Speaker 2Well, it goes back to something you and I talk about. You know your vibe attracts your tribe and I'm I'm very big on just when I connect with the person. But I look for someone that values. That's more relational than transactional. I think a lot of times individuals, we're so transactional and we have to get more energy to be more relational. So for me it's just the individuals, because we all have something of value. Now we have to know our value proposition because we all have value. Yeah, and you've heard this, I probably somebody else said it Obviously, you know you can have a hundred dollar bill, a fifty bill, $50 bill. You can step on it, ball it up with. Somebody still want it absolutely because no matter what it went through, ball stepped on, it never lost its value. So we have to know our value proposition because people see you the way you see yourself. So that's why that self inventory, that self analysis, self mastery, because when you know your value to some degree, you don't even have to pursue opportunities. You begin to attract them. It's a magnetism.
Speaker 1Do you read? All right, so I'm with you. I agree completely. Do you read any Jordan Peterson, are you Okay? So you know, some people are fans, some people aren't a fan. It doesn't really matter.
Speaker 1One of the things I tell people when they listen to the show don't get hung up on who I'm talking about. You know if I mention somebody you don't like, but understand the good things that they do say. You know, and Jordan Peterson tells a story about these lobsters. He talks about a top lobster and a bottom lobster. I'm not going to go into all that, as Jordan Peterson tells the story. Better, go look it up online. But he talks about just the fact that the way that the top lobster carries himself, and the top lobster is the one who all of the opposite sex wants to mate with and all this.
Speaker 1And that's not where I'm going with this. What I'm saying is, even when they become the top lobster and their path to it, they carry themselves more upright. There's a better confidence. So what you just said a minute ago is people do they feed off of body language, they feed off of everything, and we all know that communication is just. It's like 18 or whatever the studies say, 15, 18% of your communication is verbal, but it's the way I'm, the way I'm posturing, is the way my tonality is, and so you talk a lot about just being more about the relationship, less about the transaction. Connect the dot for me, for the people you want, to be a great salesperson without being a salesperson. What does it look like when you tell me somebody needs to be more relational than transactional? Give me a good point of that.
Speaker 2You want to come from contribution At least my approach, my trajectory, my paradigm. I want to help individuals. I want to help them be better than they were prior to us meeting, on whatever level. So for me it's about helping the individual, regardless of politics or ethnic persuasion. I want people to win in life, so for me it's just being concerned about the individual. I want to help them just make intelligent and informed decisions. And, as you just want to help people, uh, the transaction takes care of itself, because that's the sincerity, that's's the authenticity there.
Speaker 1I like that, I like that. So, okay, so we're doing some pro tips, leader tips. I always like to talk like this. I feel like when I'm connecting the dots of what you just said, I sit down, I'm looking to hire a salesperson and look, I think a lot of managers can say that they can say, look, you're probably the best salesperson at your company because you fully understood your vision. Now it's time to hire a salesperson and you got all these people coming in.
Mirror and Match Communication
Speaker 1Maybe we look for traits in people that are the wrong traits. Sometimes we're looking for people who are the slick talker, the fast talker, the quick thinker. Those can be good, Don't get me wrong, but if you're missing the servant heart, you may be missing the biggest thing. And I think especially in modern times, Lonnie, because in modern day I may be missing the biggest thing. And I think especially in modern times, Lonnie, you know cause, like in modern day, I feel like in the old days. You'd see all these things where they'd say I'm going to sit you down in a room for three hours, I'm just going to beat into your head until you finally say yes. You're going to say no, no, no and then finally yeah. But I feel like modern times. People don't want that.
Speaker 1They don't want to be sold to. They want you to relate with them. So you said something that I think is really powerful. Why am I doing this? Because I want to help you.
Speaker 2That's it. Okay, that's it, and what you mentioned. We got to get back to the servant. Yeah, we are in a service industry, we're in a service industry.
Speaker 1There you go. I like that we're not in the sales industry.
Speaker 2We're in the service industry, they don't have to use us. So to that point, going back to that service, and we can elaborate, I'm sure, a little bit later, it's a service.
Speaker 1Well, no, I mean. I think it's important to elaborate on it right now, because when you say to me, okay, it's a service industry, let's say you go to a doctor and a doctor is like you know I'm using a horrible example here but you get into the doctor and say, hey, doc, I don't feel good and he's like well, let me tell you why you should use my services. You should use my services because I'm the best doctor, and you know it's like what good is he doing right there? And that's something I want salespeople to understand. Don't talk about, about you and all the things you do. Telling is not selling, correct, correct. We got to get back to that, yes, so if you go to a doctor, here's what happens. You say, well, what's wrong, tell me, tell me how you're feeling, and that's what a good diagnosis goes through. We need to be more like doctors. We need to be and you know I don't mean you know people, don't take that wrong. What I'm saying, though, is I've got to understand what your issue is, first and foremost. All my expertise don't matter until I understand what your issue is, and then I can start getting there.
Speaker 1So, so when you talk about the service side. We talk about a room full of people that come in, and I'm and I really want to talk about this with you because you talk to people every day who are about to enter the sales industry, specifically real estate You're looking at a room full of people, lonnie, and you can teach them some tricks, and you can teach them some ideas and some mindset, but at the end of the day, you get a vibe, don't you? Don't you look at a room and get a vibe and go well, I think this person's on the right track. What does the right track look like to you? The right track when you're just meeting somebody. You see them come in and they go Hi, lonnie, this is my first day. I'm glad to be here. What do you think is a good trait? What tells you you think they're on the right track?
Speaker 2The intangibles Well, the first thing I look for are you going to talk to me or talk at me? Because it's not the same, and so often we think we're talking to people and we're talking at them. Yeah, to people and we're talking at them.
Speaker 1yeah, yeah man, that's good for relationships by the way you might be doing protests on marriage.
Speaker 2Oh man, so that's one thing right, um, talking to them, not just talking at them. And being learned, coachable, being trainable yeah, because it's always something you don't know. Yeah, yeah, so I was just taught. Man, when you get around anyone, pack up your knowledge to some degree. When I say act dumb, it's just some people. They will lose the incentive to want to train and teach and coach you if they think you know everything. So I just like those that listen and we know this, we talked about this or has been talked about. That's why silent and listen. It has the same letters, same letters, it goes back to it telling it's not selling.
Speaker 2So we have to get back to listening our way inside of a person's world.
Speaker 1Okay, I dig it, but so, but before I get too deep into it, because we've said some talk about listening more than you're talking. Not talking at people, but talking with people maybe, which is a difference, because talking with people is understanding and having compassion want to get to. It's like you speak a lot about the best salespeople seem to have a true interest in helping people and that they are truly listening. Look, if I don't have any interest in really helping people, then it really doesn't matter what you have to say, so I don't need to ask you. But if I care, I'm going to ask questions. I'm going to understand where you're coming from. I'm going to set the stage. We could talk about disc assessments and everything, but before we get into that, I mean, how'd you become a trainer man? How'd you get into this field?
Speaker 2My passion. When I left the military, you know, finished college, graduating this year and just going through my dissertation, I would always hear people say knowledge is power, knowledge is power. Knowledge is not power. Applied knowledge is power. Now, you can have all the knowledge, but if you don't apply, sure, sure, sure, let you know, yeah. So for me, that was the desire, the drive, the determination. It's just to help people know, because people do better if they knew better. Yeah, yeah, well, that's not true. Some people know better.
Speaker 1They're still not right, but all things being considered equal, I want to be able just to add value to people, on whatever level. Did you learn from your military time? Did you learn anything that has been helpful in you in becoming a better?
Speaker 2salesperson yourself. The military, many things. The military gave me Perspective. Yeah, perspective, see our perspective can be your assistant or your assassin, yeah, the way you see things, that's fair, right. So for me, the military, a lot of things, but perspective, yeah, just be optimistic, because no matter what you go through in life, somebody else has it worse, yeah, so when I went to. Southwest Asia. You know different parts of the world and you see people that have less. Let's say this is grateful man Oof people that have less.
Speaker 1This is grateful man so for me it's just to be grateful.
Speaker 2right that perspective. Many things, I love that.
Speaker 1Military has so many great parts. I mean, you know, I was an Air Force kid growing up. My father was in the military, went to Desert Storm. You know, I remember what it was like being in that and it's true Resilience, you learn, toughening up Perspective is a beautiful one, and I think perspective is really important.
Speaker 1One thing I thought, lonnie, when you said that and a lot of the things you say, is have you ever had that person you knew? And if you're listening to the show today, absorb what I'm saying. I'm going to slow this down so you can absorb what I'm saying have you ever had that one eccentric family member, that eccentric friend or maybe that hard to work with person in your life? And you go, oh boy, when they go in and they, they sit down in that restaurant. That restaurant doesn't know what's coming at them. You know, and the reason I say that is I've been there. You know I'm not even gonna name names, but it's that person you're like oh, I wonder what's going to happen when that person goes in and they meet that person.
Speaker 1There is a perspective that's so important. See, if you are really good at understanding that every person you meet can be a little bit different, with a little bit different value system, a little bit different things they've been through in life, maybe things they're going through right now. Your perspective helps because now you go, this person could be anything. Now I got diagnosed, I got to go back to my doctor role we could probably do a whole thing doing doctor analogies but I go back to a doctor. I say, well, tell me, you know, one of my sales tricks has always been and I use the word trick and, by the way, don't trick people into sales. This is relational, not transactional but one of my things was always, you know, I would like to ask them questions, like you know, why are you doing this? I just start. Well, why, like you know, they came in to buy a camera. I'm like why are you buying a camera?
Speaker 2Why aren't?
Speaker 1you using your smartphone and they'll tell you great information right there. You learn how they think, you learn what their interests are, you learn why they're doing it, and now I can start kind of building off of that. So, but you can't do it if you're not listening and asking questions and caring, right, yeah, yeah, and you said that big.
Speaker 2Why, yeah, yeah? And sometimes it's not necessarily why we're doing it, who we're doing it for, right, right. Sometimes people say you know, I don't know my why, my why? Your, why, your, why could be?
Speaker 1a who. Yeah, your person. Yeah, I like that a lot. Tell me this, what do you think for you personally? Now you and I talked I'm going to spoil alert this for you disc fans People know.
Speaker 1A lot of times I'll ask you what's your disc? And Lonnie's a D, oh well, at least that's a core trait. That kind of came from you know, and I think the core trait always kind of stays there. It always kind of stays there. It just modifies over time.
Self-Analysis and Overcoming Rejection
Speaker 1Um, we're always evolving and yet you're not changing who you are as a human being. But you're, you're evolving and, like you said, you're that energy, you get that bundle of energy and you're seeing where it grows at. But your perspective changes and maybe you change and the people's perspectives around you change. But who do you find that is easiest for you to sell in personalities and who do you find is most challenging for you to sell on personalities? And here's what I mean I always felt like I could sell these easier than I could sell certain people, because I felt like a D type personality. I want the information now. Give it to me, give it to me. I always felt like I understood that. So it was easier for me to, perspective-wise, say I know how you feel, let me kind of break that down, and then I'm able to get in their wheelhouse. And then, on the other hand, I had hard times selling certain personality types. What do you think you sell easier?
Speaker 2Naturally because safe the same as safe. So maybe in a D Right, right, that connectivity there with the D, so we wide the same to some degree. Yeah, the challenge I should say the challenge, the opportunity for growth is certain individuals that sometimes get lost in the details. We'll call it a paralysis. Right Of analysis, right, right, right. Sometimes they overthink and someone's got a proclivity just to overthink, overanalyze, but so many times they get so many details. The paralysis of analysis, yeah, yeah, yeah, they paralyze because they've analyzed Right. Then they got fear and money is always on the other side of fear. Sure, sure, sure, sure, yeah.
Speaker 1You know it's funny. He says that because they are the. You know, when you're a driver and you're like, let's get to the point, and you get a compliance or a controller type who is very much like, let me make the right decision, sometimes there's that little thing that happens. So you said something off the air that I want to talk about right now. You said you got a mirror and match. Tell me what that means and why is it important when you're doing the sales process Mirror and match.
Speaker 2But before we go to that, I want to go back to something you mentioned. Yeah, even though some of us are Ds and that person may be more systematic, and in the detail, we need one another.
Speaker 1Oh, for sure, so by no means Complimentary yeah.
Speaker 2Because sometimes, as a D, we're working in the business and we need help working on the business.
Speaker 2Right, we're working in the business and we need help working on the business, right. So that's why that C helps to work on it, cause some of us D's we're so busy working in it, in it, in it, we need someone to help us with our system. We know system stands for save yourself time, energy and money system save yourself time, energy, money. So it's good to have people to help you work on the business, because some of us we're so busy working Right, right.
Speaker 1Well, you know, and I feel what you're laying down there. You know, it's most certainly important that we have all those personality types in our business. We really have to have them all. But this is the thing, right, I want to become a great salesperson without being a salesperson. So you told me earlier, you got to, you got to listen, you have to talk with, not at, and what I'm feeling from you is you're saying you got to, you got to be able to get into that wheelhouse. So we know we need them, but it's sometimes harder. I mean, look one thing, I'm a big fan of it. I never liked to tell fairy tales. You know, if you want to be a great salesperson, you're going to do.
Speaker 1This is sometimes it's hard. We've all sat down in the car after doing a sales appointment and, look, I've done sales my whole career. I was doing sales right after I got out of college, even when I wasn't in a sales role. I believe everybody in a company needs to be a salesperson and I'll have people come over and ask me I was. I was doing payroll when I first got out of college. I'd have some of the sales guys come over and be like Rob, could you just get on the phone with this client, I'd be like why they they want to know how to set up their account. They're talking about I was getting to know the people. But sometimes it's hard because I've been on that guy who I got back in my truck after I got done talking to people I'm going what just happened? Where did I go wrong? And it usually comes down to somewhere I missed the mark. So I love that we're talking like this. I love that we're talking about things.
Speaker 2I think it's hard to the degree you don't have a connection Remember we were talking about before. You've got to capture Once you've met them. The very next step you've got to connect because people love doing business or having a relationship you have a connection with. I think to some degree it's hard to the degree you don't have a connection Because you're so big to get to the transaction. But when you have that relationship, that connection, it's not as hard as I think we make it. Yeah, okay, okay.
Speaker 2There are certain individuals I had to meet and talk to them outside of work. It's something about meeting certain individuals outside of work, outside the transaction, team building, things of that nature to get the connection Once you've got a the transact, team building, things of that nature To get the connection. Once you've got a certain connection, you realize huh okay, okay, I'm with you. It's perspective.
Speaker 1They're not really that way. Yeah, no for sure. Here's the challenge. I guess this is part of why I don't want to get off the subject, because you can't teach personality. Well, you can't teach personality. But also, you know, my vision is sometimes you get an hour to get somebody to get convinced. Sometimes you have all day, sometimes you have all week, sometimes you have 20 minutes, but you just said it.
Speaker 2Yeah, see, people convinced. Let's stay right there. We try to convince them. Yeah, that could be a conundrum. Yes, people convinced against their will is of the same opinion still, mm-hmm, and I think so. We're trying to convince and convince. No, no, no, self-discovery is a powerful tool, mm-hmm. So certain individuals I'm not trying to convince. That's one thing I don't do. I'm not trying to Because I know a person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still.
Speaker 1So fair enough. So you want people to. You don't want to convince the people to do something. You want them to discover themselves that they need to do that thing. Okay, I got you.
Speaker 2Because sustainable change comes from within.
Speaker 1That's when I start feeling like I'm hot stuff, I stop doing the little things that matter. When I when I go into that sales appointment. To go back to that point, I'll go into a sales appointment. And I didn't listen. I thought, man, I'm selling everybody, I'm meeting today, I'm I'm doing everything right, everybody's buying from me. And then you get back in that truck and go what happened? And you said, well, you didn't make a connection, you're doggone, right, I didn't. You're doggone right, I did.
Speaker 1And what I think part of the great process, like if you want to be great at this, if you want to be a great basketball player, and you miss the game one in shot, you go and you take a whole bunch more shots, you practice a lot harder. See, I'm like that with sales. I'll get into a sales situation where I get in that truck and I'm going where did I go wrong? Where did I go wrong? And the first thing is you talked about mirror and matching and I want to get back to mirror and matching. It was when you had that conversation. You start talking at them and they start doing this yeah, you got to watch and you didn't really notice it and you just kept going because you thought you were the greatest salesman since sliced bread. You know what I?
Speaker 2mean, but that speaks volumes to you See, that's having self-inventory, self-analysis. That's why I punctuate each activity. I go back through my mind Well, I could have done this better. No, I could have did this. Maybe I should have slowed down, because I can only change myself, right.
Speaker 2Right, right, that's so good, you do it, it's called. But then again, you can never overcome a true objection anyway. And I tell people if some people just have a true objection, I don't care how yeah, no matter what you say. Again example if they want to be on the first floor, yeah, and you don't have the first floor. If that's a true objection. Yep, yep, nothing you won't tell them.
Speaker 1Yep, sorry, no, no no, listen, man, I'm with you. You're talking about two different things. But I agree with you completely. If I don't have the product at all, you didn't use me because I didn't have the product, and that's okay. It's not my job to convince you to use something else. Now I do need to listen and understand why that's an objective. Why don't you want to be on the first floor? Well, because I'm in a wheelchair and I go oh well, we have an elevator over here. Would that solve that? Would that be something? Now, that's fair. Sometimes I just don't if I get a bunch of steps, and that's fair. But I'm talking about when I had the product and I didn't make the connection. And that happens, dude, it happens to the best of us, and I agree with you, man. It's like, almost like, sometimes, and I want people to know look, I want it to be a beacon of light.
Speaker 1You might not be a great salesperson right now because you're too busy being a salesperson, you're not being a communicator, and some of the things you said today. I'm going to go back over them real quick because I love it, man. First of all, we talk about you have to be relational, not transactional. What we mean there is is. It's not about me, it's not about my product, it's about you and what you need. Now, hopefully, I have it right, so I love what you're saying Now. Then you talked about a little bit about a value proposition. All right, now, if I could do this for you, you have this problem. If I could do this for you, would that be something you'd be interested in? Now, not said so dramatically, but that's the idea, right? That's what you meant by value proposition, and I love that man Pro tip big time.
Speaker 1We talked about understanding the perspective. All right, so what's the perspective of the person now? Now, here's the tricky part, and this is what I want to dive into. I got a question for you on that. We want to understand the perspective of the person, right, so your own perspective can help you a lot. Like, if I understand, some people are in a big hurry, some people don't. You know, they're not studiers. Some people are really hard studiers. If I want to understand somebody's perspective, what do you think is a trick that would help you to get to that point? What is something you could do to understand somebody's perspective? Obviously, you got to ask a question. But but how do you know when you're getting their perspective Right.
Speaker 2Yeah, and I don't think necessarily you could ever really have their perspective, because we're not right, them right, right, people total. People are told of some of all the experiences, sure, sure, so it's unrealistic to some degree to have their complete perspective. But I think, being able to just empathize and letting them communicate, letting them talk, letting them be a sounding board to people, yep Just be empathize.
Speaker 1So you combine an empathy with perspective. I like that. I like that because what you're telling me, what I'm gathering from that, is when I go into this and you're hitting on a lot of topics. I've said in my sales training over the years I believe that when you go in and you talk to people with a selfish perspective, I can make this much commission when I make the sell. I can, you know, be top in much commission when I make the sell. I can be top in my place when I make the sell, I can do whatever.
Speaker 1When it's I, I, I, I believe you're doomed to fail. So your empathy is the key. That's very cool, man. And so when we're looking for salespeople, lonnie, I think I'm going to go, I'm going to keep putting you on the spot on this one. When these people walk in this room you have trained so many people over the years and you're looking and you said I think this one's getting it. And we're not saying they'll never get it. I'm saying right off the bat, you're like I think this one gets it. And you're talking about the way they communicate, the way they talk. And then you talked about mirror and matching.
Speaker 2So tell me about it, give me an idea of what you mean by that. Well, when it comes to mirror matching, just like you just did your hands this way when you said mirror matching and if I had something to drink, I've been drinking- as well. But mirror matching at the fundamental. We're sitting here and if I would like for you to say something or agree with me, I would start doing my nods just like you just did, mirror nods. I didn't want you to agree with me. It wouldn't be a good idea.
Speaker 2Right, it's a mirror match, but down to the tonality. If they're speaking a little bit quicker, well, you may need to adjust to speak a little bit quicker, but if you're talking too, if they're speaking too slow and you're speaking too quick, it sometimes can interfere with the connection to some degree. So, even just now, when you cross your arms, and I would just cross my arms the same way, if they lean forward, I'm going to lean forward, they lean back, I lean back. You'd be surprised. Just the mirror and matching makes a difference.
Speaker 1But, bro, you've got to be careful when you talk like this. See, this is the problem, though you start talking to these new salespeople, and they're like Lonnie said, when they and then they're like trying to, and yeah, right.
Passion and Finding The Right People
Speaker 1and so what happens, though, is you you can get too stuck in that too, though you start getting like somebody's, like you know somebody's, like oh man, there's a fly over here, and you start you start, but I'm being a little facetious, but I think part of some of this is is we're doing a tricky show today, because part of what we're saying is don't be like trying to turn it into a game of I'm going to win and you're going to lose. But what I connect the dot on is when you say you're mirroring. I believe what you're in, but you're empathizing. I think what we're saying is like we want to make people comfortable. At the end of the day, you want to make them comfortable and you you want to get your point through, but you've got to listen to do it.
Speaker 1It's really cool, man. The mirror matching, I think, is important because, to go back to that thing about perspective, you know that person and you're like boy. They don't know what's about to hit them. But if that person can see that that person's a certain way, maybe you adapt really quick. Absolutely, that that person's a certain way, maybe you adapt really quick.
Speaker 2Absolutely, and a perspective, and you've heard it.
Speaker 1They say when?
Speaker 2you change the way you look at things, the things you look at will change. Right, right, right. You could be behind someone driving in traffic and let's say they're driving slowly, as an example. And when they're driving slowly now you're getting irritated. But what if you just think maybe they're driving slowly, they just left the hospital, spouse could have died. They're driving slowly to get home to let the children know that their mom and dad are no longer here. Now, did I change anything about them driving slowly? No, no, no. But I'm just saying, when you put yourself in that mindset, that man, maybe they're driving slowly because they just left the hospital. They're trying to think about how to get home and tell the children, I'm going to say, when you just have a different perspective on it, I mean, I didn't change it, they're still driving slowly.
Speaker 1You know what? That's a tip for life. I'm talking about your sales skills, but you're right, it's a tip for life People situationally, so you have your core person and then you have the situational adjustments to it. If there was a calculation, it would be like one times one equals one, but times this, when this is happening, stress is, whatever it happens, to be Very powerful stuff, and sometimes I think, if you have empathized and if you've listened and you're not just talked at and as I connect all these dots, what I feel like you've said today and we say how to be a better salesperson without being a salesperson, it was very much that I feel like you're telling me, when people come into the room, you can see it in the way that they're going about business and and I like that you know. My takeaway, lonnie, you know and you're, you're the expert when it comes to, you know, the training of the process. My takeaway is is I feel like that the best salespeople are always analyzing what they're doing, and I feel like what I mean by that is if I want to be a great golfer which I'm terrible at golf that's not something that's happening. Anybody who knows me they'd be like ha ha ha. But if I want to be great at it, I'd watch video of myself doing it and I'd look at the clubs I'm using and I'd follow the best people and see how they're preparing. Well, if I want to be a great salesperson, I'm going to do the same thing. And don't underestimate it. People have got to pick you for a reason and you've got to have a reason they picked you. So find out what that is.
Speaker 1I like to tell the story about. There's a movie called Hitch. I don't know if anybody ever saw it have I like to tell the story about. There's a movie called Hitch. I don't know if anybody ever saw it. You ever seen Hitch? Well, he just says hey look, if you're charming, be charming. If you're shy, be shy. Don't try to be somebody you're not. You said that earlier, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1I can't recollect the company right now, but part of their philosophy is, they say, they don't teach people how to be nice. They hire nice people right here.
Speaker 2Right, right right like, yeah, I feel you yep. And then to your point that's self inventory, self-analysis, right, what can I've done differently? So we have to punctuate each activity with that self reflection.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, I think reflectiveness is very important and leadership in general is for its important. You know that's part of the reason I have receptiveness on my board. It's like you gotta be receptive, you gotta receive it and you gotta accept it. Sometimes you gotta understand it because they say feedback.
Speaker 2What they say is the gift of champions yeah, yeah, that look that that feedback.
Speaker 1It's not hard, especially if you're thin skin.
Speaker 2Oh man, you know because people are gonna tell you no, right, yeah, yeah no stands for next opportunity, so we should be able to coach and build people. You're gonna tell you no, right, yeah, yeah, no stands for next opportunity, so we should be able just to coach and build people. You're going to hear no, no is for next opportunity. Yeah, detach yourself, because you start to feel sad. See, it's about you now. Oh, they reject me. Reject me.
Speaker 1They're making it about you. You know what I think is interesting about selves. I think it's such a you know, I think it's such a emotional thing that happens to human beings inside of you. So what you just said is important. We've all known people who, especially in this industry you're, you're going really high. When you're riding high, you just feel like man, I'm going to sell every single person that I walk in that door. I can sell everybody. When you're riding high and there's an emotion and a confidence in you and a body language in you and you're, probably without even knowing it, you're at your peak of listening and talking with not to, and then all of a sudden, like you get a rejection and maybe another rejection, another rejection. All of a sudden, like I can't sell anything.
Speaker 1I always tell the story. There's a baseball player named Chipper Jones and for the baseball fans you probably know the name. He was in a slump. Chipper was one of the great hitters of all time. He was world class. He had this slump near the end of his career. I think he was 0 for 26 or something they said. He went back to the dugout. One of the guys said Chipper, you're going to get another hit one day. He goes I don't know, man, and it's just funny because here's one of the greatest players of all time. Like you, say something obvious, you're gonna hit the ball again one day. He's like I don't know. But that's the emotion that happens within us, and when we're on that low, people are getting the worst of us the slump, but you said the key uh, they rejected me.
Speaker 2See, right there, they're not rejecting you. Yeah, they're rejecting the service. We have to get better, right, and not if somebody does not want my help, it's not me, they just don't want my help. See, now, here's where. Doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1Yes, but my man, here's where I'm going to take you to task Now. You see, this show Won't be fun If I just agree with everything you said. I agree with what you said. What you said is true, with an asterisk. The truth is that if you did it proper, if you expressed your product properly, if you listen to them and you understood their need and you express your product, at the end of the day it still might not have worked out. They might not have had the money to do it. They might not have had. That's okay.
Speaker 1But I'm saying, sometimes you do mess up the cell and it's because when you're riding low, you're, you're missing all those great things you talked about mirror and matching, and that's out the window. You talk about those great things. You talked about mirror and matching, and that's out the window. You talk about empathizing. Nah, man, I can't sell anything right now. You're so about yourself? So I agree with you.
Speaker 1And here's the thing. What he's what he's talking about is don't get in the slump. Don't get in the slump in the first place. What I'm seeing is is, when you're in the slump, you got to come back out and realize every opportunity is a new opportunity to reset. So what happens is sometimes it's a combination of what you and I are saying. I think sometimes we truly are blowing it because we are not doing the things that we need to be doing. We're becoming sales people, we're becoming emotional beings. What you're saying is is like look, I'm not going to win them all. That's the beautiful thing, and I gave the example earlier. I said I sit down in that truck, I'm going. Man, what did I do wrong? Maybe I actually didn't do anything wrong, but, bro, I'm going to replay it and make sure I did.
Speaker 2But it goes back to it. I mean, a broken crayon still colors. Yeah, we got to give ourselves some grace. I like that, because it's true. I mean, hey, we talked about this. What if a song only had high notes?
Speaker 1Yeah, no, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 2I don't know where in life we think there could be birth without a contraction. Yeah, there can't be birth without labor pain you got to have them Right?
Speaker 1Yes, 100%, 100%. This is the thing that I think about. Why?
Speaker 2do we think success is a straight line?
Speaker 1Well, exactly, there's going to be those setbacks and I feel like that. What we have to do, you know, and realistically, is it comes down to and I'm like not switching gears, but I'm just hitting one particular thing. We said Do you have a passion for this or not? Yeah, okay, because if you have a passion, if you listen to the show today and you have a passion, you want to be a great salesperson, you want to hire a great salesperson.
Speaker 1For all these things we've thrown out today, it's been a lot about just understanding who you're trying to help. Okay, if you understand who you're trying to help, you'll be good. But, no matter what we said today, if you have a passion for it, you'll keep going. You'll find that thing that makes you. But my cautionary tale is and we're talking to a guy who meets people who are going to get into the industries that they're going into a lot of times real estate and sometimes they're not going to make it and the reason they didn't make it is because, potentially because they were too focused on themselves, potentially because they were not willing to put in the work, potentially because they didn't have the passion, because I believe if you have the passion, you will keep working to get better and better.
Speaker 2But sometimes you just don't have the passion for it. And to some of them, they're curious, they're just not serious.
Final Thoughts: Compassion Before Commission
Speaker 1Yeah, curious not serious, oh boy, and you have to Sorry, and you know it when you see it, yeah yeah, yeah, no well, and you know it when you see it. That's kind of what it looks like. Lonnie's a real good guy, one thing you're going to know after this show today he's a good dude, and I mean that, but a dead battery can't jump a dead battery. Right right. Your vibe attracts your tribe. All those things.
Speaker 2We're weighing this together.
Speaker 1But he's the real deal man, he cares about people and I know that and that's why he's not going to say that thing. I'm going to say I've had a room full of people come in and I went you're going to be, it's going to struggle for you, you, you're going to probably be okay out the shoot because you're, you're, you're already there. And I know you don't want to say that because he, he's got that hope that all of them are going to get there. But me it's like I've been through that thing where I've seen the people and but you know what's interesting about it? It's not the person who came in and killed me with how good they talked. It wasn't a person who came in with the handsomest and best looking or anything. It was a person who communicated. It was a person who they showed a true empathy. And when they came in and they didn't come in like they were God's gift to everything, but they said hey, you know, tell me, how do I get better at being?
Speaker 2a salesperson. That's a great start right there.
Speaker 1So if you want to find somebody, find somebody coachable, teachable, trainable, empathizing. That's how we do this right. Lonnie, good to talk with you today. Man, how, um, how can people, uh, find out more about your training? I mean, should they just go online and look you up? You have a certain way that most people find you. They can reach out to you. Okay, Reach out to Leader Mentality Show. If you guys reach out to Leader Mentality Show for real, if you need a good trainer to come in and talk to you guys, to really motivate a team, to really make them you know kind of understand how to be their best self, and I think he has a lot of training, technologies and things that can help you just to excel at what you're looking to do. So, Lonnie, well done, my friend. I appreciate you being on the show.
Speaker 2Yep, thank you for having me, absolutely Until next time 100%.
Speaker 1And for those of you listening today, look, my message at the end of this is go out with compassion. Understand that other people have things that they need in life and if you can be that solution, you can be the winner in that transaction by just helping somebody else. Being a winner is sometimes helping others, so go out, be your best self. We want to thank all of you for listening. Make sure to like and share us on the social media of your choice. We look forward to hearing from you all next time on the Leader Mentality Show. We're Rob Clements.
