The Leader’s Paradox: Doubt as a Signal for Growth

Doubt can be a compass. When that “I don’t belong here” voice shows up, it often means you’re standing at the edge of growth. We dig into imposter syndrome without fluff, showing why self-awareness is a leadership advantage and how to turn shaky moments into steady moves forward.

We start by reframing fear as fuel and share practical anchors you can use in any high-stakes room: visualization tied to purpose, the “smile file” of wins that prove your impact, and a “frown file” that clarifies the standards you refuse to slip below. From there, we lay out a strengths-based playbook—name it, aim it, claim it—so you can deploy what you do best exactly where it counts. You’ll hear how preparation dissolves anxiety, why a personal glossary and one-page crib sheets beat posturing, and how to ask clean, specific questions that keep you credible while you learn.

We also pull the lens back to team culture. If a whole group feels like an imposter, the fix is shared purpose, visible wins, and simple habits—tight agendas, pre-work, post-mortems—that reward truth over theater. And because leadership doesn’t stop at the office door, we address a hard public moment with a call to humanize opponents and choose language that builds rather than burns. Positivity here isn’t pretending; it’s believing tomorrow can be better if we act with intent today.

If you’re ready to turn doubt into a data point and lead with clarity under pressure, this conversation is your field guide. Subscribe for more practical leadership tools, share this with a colleague who needs the boost, and leave a review with one tactic you’ll try this week—we’ll feature our favorites on the show.

Transcript

Framing Imposter Syndrome

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Welcome to the Leader Mentality Show with Rob Clemens, and we have our good buddy back. You want to introduce yourself again, Nick?

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Thanks, Rob. Nick DiStefano. I'm uh I guess a recurring guest now. Recurring guest. Something along that line.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

Hey man, I'll tell you what, you know, uh we know you're gonna bring value every time you come on the show, so why not have you on, you know? And and Nick, I'm excited because you know, we've been doing something um that was called the Foundations of Leadership. Uh that that's kind of our first series of shows. And foundations of leadership, we've talked about things that can help you if you are a person in a business, if you're leading a team. Heck, if you're not leading a team and you and you just yeah, you're leading yourself. We want to give you some tips for how you can get better. And today we're gonna talk about something I think is very real, uh, Nick, and and what it is is it's it's something called imposter syndrome. Now, we talked about this on the last show briefly, but today we're actually gonna talk about how to overcome imposter syndrome. Um, just to set the stage for that, of course. What are we talking about here? It doesn't mean you're an actual imposter and that you therefore have a syndrome, right? Absolutely. This isn't as ugly as it sounds, but but it it it is that feeling, that immense feeling that you have when you're in a leadership position that you feel like, I don't, I don't deserve this, I shouldn't be here. Uh, I I'm saying one thing, but I'm feeling another thing. And it is something that is very real to a lot of leaders. What do you think?

Why Doubt Can Signal Good Leadership

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Yeah, it's you know, it's just the idea that you're not enough or that you don't belong, or you know, you that you you are not as as good as or as worthy of being in the room. I like to think sometimes people sit around in different meetings or experiences and go, you know, I don't I don't belong in here. If you look around like, wait a minute, if am I supposed to is this right? Like, am I supposed to be doing this podcast with you? Like, hold on, wait a minute. Like, am I good enough to be here? But let me say this though.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Here's the interesting part about it, you know, and and for anybody who's at home or or listening at work or wherever you are, and you're hearing what we're saying, I want you to know if you've ever felt like that. It means something good about you. It means something good that you feel like that. And here's why. Because number one, you have ascended to a level that you are actually even in that discussion of should I be in this room. So, first of all, give yourself a round of applause for that. But number two is it means that you're a great leader. Yeah. And you know why I think that, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's like if I if I have enough self-reflection to go, should I be here? I think that's the best leaders you're gonna find. I don't want a blind leader who thinks they're the best thing in the world.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

It's a there's a level of humility and a level of awareness. And we talked about that in the last episode about you, you have to be aware of yourself and where you might have flaws and opportunities to improve. And you know, if you sit there and think, Oh, you know what, I'm the smartest person, I'm the best person in the room, right? You know, Tony Robbins says, as soon as you find, you know, that you're the smartest person in the room, you need to find a new room. Right. You know, and it's it's just it's it's so it is okay to have imposter syndrome. In fact, just a overall framework that I I think about when it comes to imposter syndrome, and I heard this from um one of my favorite authors, Seth Godin. Um, you know, wonderful author, highly suggest anyone listening, go look at any of his books, he's fantastic, or sign up for his newsletters. But I heard him speak in 2019, and I'll never forget what he said about imposter syndrome. He said, Um, if you think you're an imposter, good for you. Just like you, he's he said that, and he said, I say good for you because everyone is an imposter. Nobody is, and if you recognize this in yourself, like it it is, it's leadership. You recognize it, like I don't I don't have to be the smartest person in the room. And you know what? If you're in the room, you know how many other people are sitting there thinking, hmm, I'm an imposter, I don't I can't do this, or I'm not sure about everyone has these thoughts if they're in that type of a leadership setting. If you think you're a leader, you also are an imposter. Like that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Yeah, I I mean I get you. Uh you know, Jordan Peterson, you know, he's talked a little bit about how you know sometimes you know the things that have gone around in your own head, and you're like, oh boy, you know, I have to contend with these things that are going on in my head. But but the fact of the matter is, is it's great to do a show like this because I want people to know just how normal it is in a leadership position to feel away. And the way that it usually manifests itself in me, now I've always been a guy since I was growing up that I felt like if anybody can do it, I can do it. I've always felt like that. You know, and it comes down to, you know, if I see somebody that's out there and they've learned how to fix their computer in a certain way, I'm like, if they could do it, I can learn how to do it. And I've always felt strong like that. My imposter syndrome usually comes up when I'm in front of a room telling them, don't let that get you down. You can do it, you can. And then sometimes you're having the worst day ever when you're about to go talk to a group. Yeah, and then you're going, man, I don't even feel like that right now. And I gotta tell everybody to feel like that. But this is my point. To my dear friends listening today, here's my point. Um, that's a natural part of life. You're gonna go through ups and downs, and just because you're feeling inside doesn't mean you're not gonna conquer that tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Absolutely.

Normalizing Imposter Feelings in Rooms of Leaders

SPEAKER_02 5:26

You're gonna conquer it tomorrow. So today, when just because you're down in the dumps, doesn't mean you have to get up on stage and go, you know what, guys, I was gonna come up here and tell you a bunch of motivational stuff, but I decided I'm having a rough day. Yeah, absolutely. But so part of that imposter syndrome is realizing that a better day may be ahead tomorrow, you know, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Well, and a a better day is gonna be ahead because yesterday might have been a worse day, or in the past you might have had the days where you've overcome it, right? Like we talk about life is these ups and downs, and you don't have the ups without the downs. You can't be an imposter if you're also not a leader. Like you have to be both, and that's okay. Yeah, and it's okay, it's okay. I think it's okay to admit it too. Now, I'm not saying you should get up in front of the group and say, Oh man, I'm I'm really struggling. I really suck. I'm awful, right? We don't we're not gonna, you know, be self-deprecating, but I also think we can own, like, hey, I I struggle with this piece of it. Yeah. Because that also, I think a piece of overcoming imposter syndrome is recognizing that everybody deals with it in some way. So if I own it and I don't pretend like, you know what, everything's great. I've got this, you know, it's okay to say, I'm I'm struggling with this too. Like, you're not alone. That's okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Well, I you know, I'll let you into my world a little bit. You know, there there have been times where I felt like, you know, the best support I ever got was when I was going through something hard. Okay. You know, if people don't perceive that you have something hard going on, sometimes they're like, well, this guy's got it all figured out, he's fine. When you're going through something tough, something that's that's just crushing your soul, and people can can hear that. You're not gonna fake your way through it, but you're gonna let it be known. Sure. People are more supportive than ever. It can be very uplifting to the soul. And so part of that leadership side is there's a balance. You have to be strong enough that people don't feel like the world is burning down when it's going down. So you have to be strong. But you also have to be forthcoming and say, look, you know, here's a challenge because people don't look here's the thing. I've listened to a lot of speakers over my time. Nobody likes to hear somebody get up on stage and just sit here for an hour straight. They want to hear about the challenge, yeah. The overcoming of that challenge. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

And then also what and then what's in it for me, too, right? Like, can like can I relate to what you're saying? Can I can I do the same thing? Like, you know, we're not gonna sit here and pretend like the two of us, you know, have all the answers. We have our own experiences and times when we've overcome imposter syndrome, and we can talk about how to do that, but you know, we're just like anybody else listening, you know. We've we've got it too, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

Well, the big the biggest thing that I, you know, when we talk about overcoming imposter syndrome, and we're gonna talk about that a little bit. Let's let's let's give some pro tips for somebody who's trying to overcome it. And I think there within is my my first thing. I would say if you're trying to overcome it, the first thing is is realize that it I don't know that you'll ever completely overcome it. It's part it's a healthy part of your self-awareness. And we talked about self-awareness at one point, but I'll go I'll double down on it. I'm gonna say this the people who lack self-awareness tend to lack uh growth because when you are not aware of some of your potential shortcomings, it's hard to grow from them if you're not even aware of them. Yeah, and so part of great leadership is to say, hey, look, where can we improve? Where can I make that 1% kaizen? Right? I believe that's how can I make that 1% improvement and get better every day? So I would say if you have it, the thing is, is um I I I'm I'm gonna use a movie line here, and I think it came from Rocky, but he said something to the effect of and it may not even be from Rocky, but you'll feel where I'm going. It said the the whole thing about fear is harness the fear. Yes, you can't get rid of the fear, but harness it and make it into something. And what I'm gonna say is it's the same thing with this imposter syndrome. I'm not saying you're ever gonna get rid of it, but learn how to harness it. Okay, that's my tip.

Harness the Fear, Don’t Erase It

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Absolutely. No, you're spot on, right? It's like let's just accept it and use it for good, right? Yeah. So fear is an opportunity to be brave. Imposter syndrome is just your chance to, you know, step forward and like and step into your leadership, yeah. Potential. So, my uh first tip I would tell anybody, and it goes a little bit to what you're saying, Rob, is you know, you have to be aware, but you need to be aware of your strengths, and you need to be able to, you know, we say this in I do a lot of work and coaching around and you know, training around Clifton strengths and you know, being aware of like your natural talents. But I say people need to be able to name it, aim it, and claim it. So you need to be able to name what you're good at. You need to be able to then think about how can I use that, right? When have I used it in the past, and then how am I going to use it moving forward? Because it's in this moment I'm feeling like I don't belong, but I know that I've felt this in the past and I've overcome it. So if I know and I'm aware of what I do well, I should lean into that. Now I'm not saying, you know, when you're sitting in a one-on-one meeting and it's you know tense and you're feeling like I don't belong here and I can't have this tough conversation with your employee. If you know you're really good at speaking in front of other people, that you should stand up and start talking to them, but you know that you can adjust if you're good at public speaking. You know that you can, you know, connect with people. How do I lean into that and say, I know I'm good at this stuff, so how do I use that here? I don't have to fix everything or do everything or totally belong, but yeah, I belong here because I have things that I'm good at, because I'm naturally talented in things, and you gotta know that.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

Yeah, I like I like that. Well, I'm so I'll go into this then, and and you know, we we actually don't pre-rehearse what we're gonna say, so sometimes we might be like talking about but but so I'm gonna use a different one and I'm gonna go to this route. I'm gonna say uh to use uh the the old phrase, this too shall pass. And the thing I would tell you is when you find yourself in that moment where that you're finding that uh you may be feeling like, wow, I don't know if I belong here, I would suggest to you that you have some sort of a uh mental imagery that you have that could help you get back in your zone. And I'll explain it like this. This I this actually isn't tied to imposter syndrome, but I've had this thing I've done for years. This is a little bit about getting to know Rob. You know, but you know, when I was growing up, Michael Jordan was in his prime. Okay. Actually, his prime was a little bit when I was a little young for it, but uh he was in his prime in that time frame. And so certainly uh I was not necessarily a Michael Jordan fan, but I saw him as the standard of that guy who was gonna get it done every time. Absolutely. And so anytime I've been in my life and I've been at a point where I felt like I was emotionally maybe overwhelmed, like you know, I hey, you know, you're you're trying to give a speech and something touches you and you're like, hold on. Oh my god. I thought of Michael Jordan hitting a game-winning shot of the end. That imagery was always something to ground me. And for you, it may not be a basketball player. I love basketball, so it may not be basketball. But think of something that's moved you, a pillar of strength, visualize it, and and that will help you get through that moment because tomorrow will be a better day. Yeah.

Name It, Aim It, Claim It: Strengths in Action

SPEAKER_00 12:18

You you can even visualize too if it's if it's not like a pillar of strength. You can visualize your purpose or your why. You know, if I know that the reason I'm doing this and the reason I've worked so hard to get in this room is because I want to, you know, provide this for my family. Well, then I'm gonna think about what is what is it that I need to you know envision and I remember them. Or maybe it's you know, I just look at my my lock screen on my phone and it's like it's got my family on it, and that just grounds me in the moment. Like, I'm here because I'm I'm here for them. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Have your target, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Yeah, I my you know it's funny. My second tip is very similar to that. I I call my second tip and I would suggest everybody create one of these, whether it's digitally physical, but I call it my smile file. And I know that sounds cheesy, um, but I guarantee if you're in this room at some point in your life, wherever you're at in your career, um, even if you're you know you're thinking I don't belong here, and you're a mom listening to this, and you're not in a a room and you're in another room with new, you know, new parents, and you're like, I don't know any of these people, I feel awkward, I don't belong here, right? A smile file is really just a physical or digital space where you're keeping all the things that have brought you smiles over the years. Okay. So for me, it's things like thank you notes. It's different quotes that I've collected, it is pictures of my former team, it's got pictures of my kids in there, it's got artwork that my kids have done that I'm like, all right, so I have this, and it's like I don't have to always have it in front of me, but when I'm feeling like I don't belong here, it's I can go back and think, okay, I've kind of got this like physical or digital space where I can think about all these things that have like I know that I've made an impact on all these people. Um, and you know, as you grow in your career, you get you know different think you notes and different things that you remember, and I'm like, you know what, this is really cool. It actually can't it comes from um the idea comes from David Goggins and his, you know, idea, he calls it your mental cookie jar. Okay, I love it. Because like when you have this tough moment, reach into your cookie jar and think about all the times you've overcome the tough things in your life. Well, you know, sitting in a boardroom and having imposter syndrome doesn't necessarily feel the same as running a marathon. It could, depending on how uncomfortable you are. But it's it's just the idea that you are in this room because you've made an impact at some point in your life. And you know, sounds good. Remember that. Have something that you can look back at.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

Well, so your smile file, I've never thought about this before. Smile file is good. You can also have your frown file. Yeah, sure. And let me explain the frown file that I just came up with while you were talking about your smile file. When you see something that is somebody who is uh doing something against their best self-interest, when you see somebody doing something that I call mental sabotage, that is a frown file, and remember what you don't want to be. As much as you remember what motivates you, remember what you don't want to be. And I can tell you this you know, life will provide you a lot of opportunities for your own improvement. But I have something I do with my guys at work, and I swear I do this in my meetings. I don't just say this, I practice what I preach. In our meetings, I'll say, think about the last time you had a really bad customer service experience. And my guys will say, you know, and and they'll actually give me an example, and I'll say, So when that happened, how did you feel? And you know, they're they're feeling away about it. And I say, We've got to be better than that. It's that simple. We have to be better than that. So every time that you're in that imposter syndrome and you're thinking, like, hey, I'm about to give a worse version of myself. I mean, honestly, if you're getting overtaken by this, you're about to give a worse version. Think about that thing that you that you don't want to be and go the opposite direction.

Visualization, Purpose, and the “Smile File”

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Yeah, absolutely. I I think too, you mean you probably also have in that same, you know, vein, you have also the you know, the opportunities where you have that, those bad, you've had the bad experiences, or even yourself, like you've you know I've done this morally, yeah, and you think I don't want to do this again, right? Right. So even if it's not bad experiences you've had elsewhere, it could be, you know, the last time I did this, this is what I did. And was it really that bad? You know, we ask ourselves, like, what happens if I say this? Like, what if it what if it goes wrong? You know, what if you reframe it, and I think that's key, right? What if it goes right? Yeah. What if what if I say it and it goes really well? What if, you know, why do we question ourselves in terms of like, then that's an imposter syndrome, like, you know, 101 feeling that so many people have, like, you know, what if I say the wrong thing? Or what if I'm, you know, what if I make a couple of myself? What if you go, what if it goes right?

SPEAKER_02 16:47

But but I and now I'm gonna finally counter us. Sure. Okay. The point of the show is like, sometimes I don't want to get on it like we're on this positive tangent, but let's be real. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everything's great. No, let me be real with you. I'm gonna tell you why. I'm gonna tell you why I think this actually happens. Okay? It's not, it's not just that you're a success, it's not just that this is natural and normal, and it is, and it probably is. No, what I'm actually gonna say is when you see this happening, Nick, I do believe that you need to get better. All right. Now, now I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go a little mean. I'm gonna go a little hard right now. I'm gonna go what Goggins would say. You brought up David Goggins, so I'm gonna go Goggins right now. Well, what well, yeah, and what I'm gonna say is okay, we've heard of this before. When you're about to go give a public speaking, and I've talked to a lot of people about public speaking, I do a lot of it. Yeah, I do it so much I'm not, I don't worry about it when I do it. But but I meet a lot of people, and I've had many people say, My thing is, I I'm okay if I'm speaking about something I know a lot about. If I do I'm not, I do not feel comfortable. Sure. And so here's what it comes down to, Nick it is the fear of being exposed because you have internal flaws potentially that you are fearing in your game. And so, now let me say this now, and I'm and and I've got to put the dark side of it, but what I'm saying is, is if I'm an imposter syndrome, all right, if I'm saying I'm having that right now, now we did the feel-good side. Hey, it could be because you're an overachiever, you're self-aware, you know where there's holes in your game, you wanna, but I'm gonna say, get better, get stronger. You know, if I'm worried because, hey, look, you know, I'm in this room full of people, and this guy over here, he he's got 20 pages of notes. And this person over here, this lady over here, she's saying some of the most eloquent stuff I've ever heard, and I've got nothing to contribute. Well, that could be in your own head, but it could also be a sign, my good friends, that it's time for you to up your game. Work a little harder, prep a little harder. And you said it yourself a minute ago. You said, look, there could be something that you that you you actually just you you need to get a little better at, you know?

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Yep, but I would also go back to what you said earlier, too, and that like one of your first tips was we're constantly like, we're learning and we're growing your boat. You're here because you've done this. So I would say, you know, and I think that ties really well because I I don't disagree with that. You should get better, but you should also give yourself grace too. And that's my that that's my third tip. I would say is like, you know, there's nothing wrong with saying, I I don't know how to do this thing that these other people in the room know yet, right? I don't, I'm not sure about this concept, or I don't know, you know, people you sometimes you're sitting around and you're like, oh god, I have to Google what these people are saying. Like they use this acronym or they said this thing. I'm like, you know, you know, financial. I'm like, what are we talking about, y'all? But but do you have an opportunity to learn about it? I get but give you be I would just say be kind to yourself.

The “Frown File” and Reframing Failure

SPEAKER_02 19:33

Like, I'm understanding an identity, man. I I hate to cut you off. I'm understanding an identity of where we're headed. I'm gonna play the Jocko role, and you're gonna play the Tony Robbins role from now on. We're gonna go hard and you're gonna go. No, no, I I understand what you're saying. Let me put this in a context. We've been talking about the individual a lot, uh, but but I want to say that this for you business owners out there, okay, for you people who and and usually I use sports teams and I use business owners because they're easy for me. Um, if you're in a military unit and you're comparing yourself to another military unit, whatever it is, sometimes I personalize this, but this can take the entity of an organization. Sometimes you feel like your your whole organization could be an imposter. Hey, we're not as good as these other guys. We're not. And if you take all these things, really they all tie together. Even though I took a negative approach a minute ago and I said, maybe you're not good enough. And you're and your awareness yet, and your awareness says that okay, I recognize that there's some feeling, I understand it will pass if it if it's something, sure, but there has to be that healthy dialogue in your head to say, I can get better. Let me let me share a story with you, if you don't mind. Okay. I have a saying at every company that I go to, but my current company, which uh you can tell I'm wearing some of the garb today. No surprise. But I tell people to work at this company, you must have three traits. Now, I understand you're gonna make an error, you're gonna make a bad judgment call once in a while, but if you have these three traits, you can hang around here. It's you have to have pep, you have to have professionalism, you have to have enthusiasm, and you have to have positivity. Sure. Now, professionalism, I'm on time, I dress the part, I talk the part, um, enthusiasm, I am enjoying what I do. I appear to enjoy what I do. I exclude that to my customers. And I am positive in the sense of I believe that things will be up. If we do the right thing, things will be up. And it's and it's a cousin of enthusiasm. Now let me share why I'm telling you that right now. I had a guy one time call me on the phone, he's having a really hard day, and he says, and and he and he was talking to me as his leader, saying, I'm feeling uh exhausted, I had some things happen. And at the end of that, he said, and I want to apologize because I know I'm not being very positive in that right now. And I said, No, no, no, no, my friend, you've misunderstood positivity. You've misunderstood positivity because, in my terminology, I'm not saying positive means we we we just pretend everything's great all the time. Right, I just got in a car accident and this is great. No, no, no. You acknowledge when things are maybe not going your way, but positivity means tomorrow can be better. That is all it means to me. So if you come in today, you get your teeth kicked in, you come back tomorrow and say, I can do better today. So, so with that, you know, this is kind of how I'm putting on. We're talking about imposter syndrome, where does that fit in? It fits in everywhere. Because if you believe that you don't belong, you believe that you're not in the room, you shouldn't be in the room, I'm telling you, you're probably wrong.

Get Better: Prep, Skill Gaps, and Grace

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Yeah. Okay. Absolutely. And I I don't disagree with that at all, you know. I I and then when we're talking about positivity, I I tell people all the time, you can't be positive if you can't also embrace the suck. Like if you're, you know, to just to think about like a you know, a Jocko or like you know, that that type of mentality of like it it truly is like there's a massive, and it's a wonderful book by Jocko, there's a massive dichotomy of leadership. Like you can't have the positivity without also the embracing the reality of the fact that like some days are gonna suck and some moments are gonna suck. Like it's not always gonna be like that, but it's it's the same thing with imposter syndrome. You're not gonna walk around your life feeling like this all the time. Well, yeah, you feel it in that moment, and you have to harness it, you have to overcome it, and you have to ask yourself, you know, what is this teaching me? What am I learning from this? You know, I think that's a massive piece of leadership. Um, and that's you know what you've signed up to do. If you're listening to us right now, you're you know someone that wants to grow and be better and are hopefully taking things from this to not just like sit down and take notes from us, but like get out of here and like turn this phone off and get out of here and not just take the notes, but take action. Do something like that.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

And and I and I agree, and I and I think that at the end of it, I'm gonna put a bow on all this because I think we we've kind of hit the high points. The bow is gonna be this look, if you don't ever experience imposter syndrome, I'm gonna suggest to you take a harder look at yourself. And this is where this is gonna be the most ironic thing I'm saying of the whole thing, because our whole thing was about overcoming it. But I think we should we should have said we're harnessing it. Because if you are going into every meeting and you feel like you're you're the greatest thing for slice bread, you're killing it, you're better than everybody else, there's a pretty good chance you you're missing some things that you should be paying attention to. Look in the mirror. Uh right, exactly. And that's the first part of it is it I want to get better every day. And if I go into every room and I think I'm the best, smartest, whatever room, to go back to what you said a minute ago, find another room if you think you're there. Yeah. Um, that's what we need to be doing. So, hey, before we go, Nick, uh, you know, uh great topics for today. Um, we had a tough couple of weeks. Not me and you. I'm saying this country's had a tough couple of weeks. We had a tragedy that happened uh last week with the the the Charlie Kirk situation. I don't care what political affiliation you have, I don't care if you liked him or not, that was a tragedy. This is not how it goes. And the thing I I'd like to say as we go into it, it really doesn't necessarily tie into this, but I'm gonna say the way we react to things, the way that we uh that we express ourselves and then we react shows a lot about who we are. You know, and and no matter what happens, I believe that we all have to get better all the time. We have to learn from things. And um, so to you out there who that hit a lot of people hard, and I gotta tell you that, you know, I'm not going deep into it on this show, but I want to say in my scope of of life, I'd say that well, we gotta be better. Absolutely that's what I took from that. We gotta be better as a population.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Everyone has an opportunity to be more understanding, to be kinder, to be more we're just willing to grow. Yeah, just to and just to to just remember, like, and sit down and it's a massive piece of leadership, but like we're humans, right? And like let's connect with each other as humans. Like, if we want to be less divided and more united, you know, it's not gonna happen if we can't see people as people. And like that is that is we're not there right now. It's like we are we are in two chairs as a country, like turned away from each other until people actually like decide I'm gonna turn my chair around and actually see that this person over here is a person. Yeah, we're gonna continue to just keep going down the same road. And but the thing is, you said it right, we can all be better. Yeah, right, and that's what this is about. That's what that's what the show is about. That's what we do one another. No, everyone can do that.

Positivity, Realism, and the Dichotomy of Leadership

SPEAKER_02 26:20

I I hope coming off of it. Like, look, one of the things that we feel like it is an important part of the American dream is that we can have open discussion, we can share our views. When you take somebody and you dehumanize them because of their views to the point that all you see is a giant viewpoint, and you you you reject the fact that somebody has a heart and a spirit and a and the things they deserve, maybe you're the problem. Absolutely. And so all I can say is I, you know, I don't want to turn it into a highly, but it was just something I feel like it's important to address as we go through. And I know a lot of people have been hurting about it. Some people maybe didn't care at all, but I would tell you, you know, use that as your your linchpin. If that was something that hurt you, if that was something, you know, let's all discuss better. Let's get better together as a group and as a society and and keep peeking for uh more more better things ahead. So all right. Well, Nick, good job, man. I enjoyed the show again. We'll we'll pick it up on the next one. We still got we got a good show next week. I'm gonna kind of tease it a little bit growth mindset versus fixed mindset. How does that look? That's gonna be really nice. It kind of relates a little bit to what you were just saying about we all need to grow. We all absolute little teaser activity going on. But anyway, uh if you're out there and you listen and enjoy the show, we appreciate you being on. Make sure to like and share us on your social media of choice, and we'll see you both on the leader mentality show next time.