How To Pair Confidence With Humility For Stronger Leadership

We break down how to pair courage with humility so leaders can act with conviction, invite feedback, and keep learning without sliding into arrogance. Stories from sports and sales make the ideas practical and repeatable for work and home.

• personal mastery theme with a focus on confident humility
• examples from Gandhi, Joe Gibbs, and NBA leadership
• confidence as reps and skill building over time
• Dunning–Kruger effect and how to avoid overconfidence
• accountability circles and consent before giving advice
• sales lessons on listening, service, and curiosity
• practical questions to spot blind spots and stay grounded
• teaser for next episode on curiosity and continuous learning

Thank you, Carolina Bays Real Estate and Construction, the Modern Homes Podcast, and McLeod Health for the support.

Transcript

Welcome Back & Recent Guests

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Welcome to the Leader Mentality Show with Rob Clemens and Nick DiStefano. Nick, welcome back, buddy. Thanks for having me. Took a couple of days, a couple weeks hiatus, so I could get a couple extra guests on here. We had uh the Myrtle Beach Bowl people on, and they were talking about what's happening with the Myrtle Beach Bowl in South Carolina.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Very proud of that. Pumped to go to that game. Man, whoever it is.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Whoever's playing in it, it's gonna be a great game. And he it was really interesting. He talked a little bit about how they pick where bowl games are gonna go and things. We also had somebody that came on and talked about children's literacy. So, Gina, she was great. And and look, anytime that you can um you can talk about how you can help somebody be better, you can talk about helping kids, you can talk about inspiring a kid who may not be feeling that uh uh strong right now and in their personal uh you know life, uh it's great that you can help that out. So a couple of great guests, but we're back to it, man. I'm excited to be here with you. What have you been up to lately, by the way?

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Oh my goodness. I feel like every day I've been coaching people, coaching out of lots of coaching sessions, talking, talking to self-awareness, how to be better leaders. It's been a lot of fun. I've been doing a lot of it at McCloud and a lot of it in my business, and it's that on keeping track of kids, you know, that sort of life. But a lot of coaching opportunities. Oh my god, yeah, coaching kids. You need a little whistle that you can blow.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Like you need to be like a real coach out there, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Oh no, that's I tried that this year with my son. That is not in my repertoire. I need to learn. We go, I need a growth mindset.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Let me ask you, I I want to, I'm I'm talking to a guy who who does leadership all day. Do you give your wife leadership of this nature?

SPEAKER_00 1:53

So, you know, it's it's a great question. Um, sometimes I think I do it in a way where I probably shouldn't, right? Like I have to take the coach hat off and remember, like, she's my partner, she's my friend, and I can't coach her. I want to help her, and I will obviously try and help with things, but you know, I I gotta learn too. And I got and it's not easy, man. It's sometimes you go home and it's like, oh, I shouldn't have said that. I was probably too coach Nick like too coach Nick.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Um so there's somewhere around, um please correct me if I'm wrong. I think there's around seven billion people on the planet, seven to eight billion. Um probably about seven billion to eight billion, I'd be coaching before I coach my wife. Does that make sense? Exactly. Uh she is not looking for coaching, she doesn't need it. Not for me anyway.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Yeah, not from us.

Series Focus: Personal Mastery

Confidence And Humility Defined

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Oh no. Well, hey, look, uh I'm excited to have you back, man. We we're going through our series. We're in the personal mastery side of the series right now. And so if you're somebody at home, if you're listening to the show, uh, if you're at work right now, listening while you're pounding away on your keyboard doing today's task, uh, we're gonna talk about balancing confidence with humility. Uh great topic. And and and the thing I love about it is that everything you hear, every motivational speaker, they're talking about you have to have confidence. You gotta be out and confident. But then sometimes confidence it kind of goes over the threshold of confidence, straight into cockiness. And so that's where the humility comes in. So we're gonna dive into that today. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 3:21

I'm so here for it. And I think the power of it is the word and. So that's what I want people to focus on is you can have confidence and humility. It's not either or. So that would be the first thing I want us to even just think about is the fact that, like, if you could give me a theme for the show, it'd be the word and. Okay. You can have both.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Yeah. Uh who's a great person that had confidence and humility? I know I'll put it in your spot, but who do you think? Just name one person you can think of historically. You say they had confidence and humility. Gandhi.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

First, comes to mind. You think about someone who was willing to sacrifice himself, but was also willing to take risks and put himself out there and say, like, I have a purpose and I'm willing to do this thing that's difficult and that is. And yet talk about humility, willing to like give up his own you know, personal belongings, and yeah. So that's the first person that comes to mind in terms of a that's putting your money where I'm not saying that we should all be like that. Like, obviously, you want to maybe aspire to be like that, depending on what matters to you, but I I do believe that it's that confidence and humility that come together.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

That I mean, I'll be fair with you. You you trumped anybody I could have named. I'm like, you go straight to Gandhi. Good lord, man.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Anyway, I'll I was gonna say you, but I thought people might think that you're head with you like to say that.

Role Models: Gandhi And Joe Gibbs

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Yeah, all of a sudden my my humility level's dropping, my confidence is getting no. No, I was actually gonna use uh Joe Gibbs from Washington. You know, I love watching him. Yeah, and and everybody knows. I'm a Washington fan, even in the bad years and the good. That's why he likes that. That's why I like that's why I keep having you back. I don't even know if you know anything about leadership, but no, no, it's no, but the thing is that I watched Joe Gibbs growing up, and he was a man who you know went to the Super Bowl year after year. Uh God miss him in Washington, by the way. Um, and then he went into NASCAR and he he he built championship teams in NASCAR, but never once did Joe ever go out and and beating his chest and acting like, you know, hey, everybody, you know, you should be uh looking up to me. You know, he just he just instilled confidence in his very nature.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Yeah, no, I think you're absolutely right. But I also think with him, one one thing I would add to it, like, yes, he was not a show me and not a showman in terms of a leader, but he was also willing to, I think he always did a great job of connecting with these individuals. And always and and understanding himself, but also he, you know, like you said, he went out and did an ask. That was a risk. I think that's it takes confidence in that, but also it's confidence and the willingness to learn and say, what do I not know? How do I, you know, change something here? And absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Well, I'm I'm glad you mentioned that because there's actually something that comes to my mind when we're talking like that. And and well, so we're talking all about confidence and trying to stay humble, but to me, the confidence of trying something new is the ultimate show of confidence. Okay. Um because what happens is a lot of times you can get very confident in what you're doing, and the minute we take you out of your comfort zone, now all of a sudden we truly see your confidence level. And uh to see him go into another field. But look, we can all relate to that. If you're uh at a job and you're thinking, I'd like a promotion, well, you have to have the confidence to go into that other field. If you're thinking about starting a business and something you haven't done before, you have to have confidence in that. Um, and so at that point, you're not really testing your humility level, you're just testing your confidence. Do you understand what I'm saying? Absolutely.

Trying New Fields And Real Confidence

SPEAKER_00 6:48

But I I think the thing that you are doing, and I I often think about confidence like this. If you were to ask me to give an analogy for how someone develops confidence, you don't just wake up and you know, surprise, you're confident today. It's not how it works. Like it it it slowly is developed and it it's developed over, you know, rep after rep after rep. I I like to think of developing confidence kind of like creating a path in the woods. So if you were new at something, even if you've created many paths in the past, you've done things really well, the first time you go and do it, you might have lots of tools in your toolbox. So it's easier to create the path, but it's still uncomfortable, it's still awkward, there's still rocks and thorns, and and it's like the more we keep going through this, the more we create a well-worn path that I finally can say, this is what it feels like to do this task or to run this business. So he was able to go into NASCAR because he knew this is how I lead a team, this is how I communicate with individuals, this is how I fill in the blank with all the skills that he learned, and I'm sure it was still uncomfortable for him.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Yeah, and he still applied the the and and this there's a part of this where leadership tends to transcend any industry, any uh job type. I mean, it just does it because of the fact that it there's certain check boxes that you can do. And and I feel like I'm not even gonna go down this rabbit hole, but when you talked about that uh that metaphor you gave, I was thinking about overconfidence. Yeah, sometimes doing things where you haven't even begun to explore what you're actually doing, but you're gonna do it anyway. That's overconfidence, a different problem we're talking about today. Absolutely. Um, but it reminds me of the time that my wife and I decided to go on a trail, and we're not hikers per se. And she said, Which trail do you want to go to? And there's an easy, there's an intermediate, intermediate, and there's like master. I said, Well, clearly we're gonna go on the master trail. Let's do it. Never hiked a day in my life. You know how much cursing I got at me then? Oh my gosh, I'm sure you I learned the curse words that day.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Yeah, you sh you were probably trying to coach her as you were doing this. We can do this.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

One more mile up this mountain here, honey. Yeah, no, my gosh. Yeah, that's overconfidence, but but we made it.

Building Confidence Like A Forest Path

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Yeah, but I think we can, well, again, we're not gonna go down that rabbit trail, right? To go back to the trail metaphor. But I do think that there, and there's actually research about it, there's this effect they call the Dunning Krueger effect, which is this idea that beginners have this overconfidence. It's like if you've ever walked into a guitar store and you see someone that like picks up the guitar and it's like, oh, I can learn this one thing, and they like think all of a sudden they're amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like then the people that often have seen what it's really like, right, don't see the confidence, and they're actually don't recognize their own skills. And I think that's what a lot of people do. It's why they struggle with confidence because they're like, I know what it really takes to be good. Like, I am not Santana, and so I'm not any good, but it does not mean you don't have confidence. So it's like I could look at myself and say, Well, I'm not the speaker that I want to be because I'm not Tony Robbins, and I could have zero confidence. Or I can say, I also have put in the time and the energy and the effort to be where I am today, not where I want to be.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Then the question is, how do I get there? How do I get to that level of confidence? What does that look like? How do I do it?

SPEAKER_01 9:57

What does it look and how do we go? All right. Well, so while we're on the subject, let's talk about the the balance effect. So we talked about confidence and humility, and we said, you know, sometimes when you're when you're unduly confident or maybe when you're you're br over brimming, uh your cup is overbrimming with confidence, if you will. Um, how do you know when you're getting to a point where you are losing humility? I mean, is there something because some of this goes with self-awareness, but I I think a lot of times it's in the eye of the beholder when somebody is humble or not. But I guess my question is, is you've worked with a lot of people, thousands of people that you've been coaching, and you get into this point where you're saying, this person has gone right past confidence into like a you know a arrogance level. What does that look like? How do you prevent that, you know?

Overconfidence And Dunning Kruger

SPEAKER_00 10:48

So I I think what it looks like is you no longer have a growth mindset. I think it looks like you're you think you can't fail. I think that there's a level of um willingness to think you can do anything. Um it's almost, you know, it's I would ask someone, and I love asking this question of people I'm coaching. I think about it myself as like, what have I learned today, or what do I still need to learn? Um, and if you're not thinking about that regularly, if you don't recognize in yourself the areas that you need to still grow, you're probably in that overconfidence level. And I think what it looks like for many people, and many people see it, is those folks don't recognize that they're negatively impacting others. The people that have such a low self-awareness that their confidence is so high, because that's what, like it's this gap between my level of confidence and then also my level of awareness. So if my confidence is here, my awareness is down here, I'm gonna piss off a whole lot of people, and I'm gonna probably have no idea that I'm doing it. Um and I think that's when you have to have people in your corner, and hopefully people listening have individuals around them that say, Hey, you don't need to try that. Yeah, right, right. It's okay if you don't do that. Like I tell folks all the time, I need folks in my life that will say to me, Hey Nick, reel your kite in. Like that's a great idea, but don't go try and do that thing. That's not the best idea.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Well, one thing that I talk about a lot, and and I talk a lot about it as a guy who's been in charge of a lot of companies, you know, it's it when when you're ultimately in charge, and managers, you need to remember this out there. When you don't feel like you have a level of accountability above you, if you don't feel like that, sometimes it gets easy to lose track of perspective. And so we always have to begin in things. But I talk to my employees a lot of times and and I say, you need to have somebody that you trust, somebody in your bubble that you trust that gives you good advice. And if you don't have that person, then go seek that person. Because what happens is if you're in charge and I come over to you in today and I say, Hey, I I really don't think you did a great job with this, there's a certain amount of like, oh well, you know, maybe he just, you know, I'm maybe I'm hurting his spirit. Or maybe if some third party comes in, you again, you take it defensively, but somebody you know cares about you and is operating in your best interest gives you some some critical feedback, um, that you can rejoice in that. And you rejoice in that kind of thing. For me, it was always call my father. Like I, you know, I knew he has my best interest at hand, but if he told me something that was a hard truth, I go, okay, well, I can take that, and I know he's not rooting for me to fail. He's doing it because he's rooting for me to succeed. Exactly.

Spotting Arrogance And Fixing It

SPEAKER_00 13:22

There's also a lot, it's funny, you know, if you were to ask, if I were to ask you if you saw your dad as a coach, right? That's a little bit like what a coach does. So, like, even I can, you know, you asked earlier jokingly, like, am I coaching my wife? And like, I might not be coaching her, but I also can have that conversation with her where I say, Hey, I I I want to give you this piece of advice, or is it okay? And that's another thing that I think is really important is I'm not too confident to say, hey, I think this is what you need to do. Yeah, I'm humble enough to say, Hey, are you okay if I offer you this piece of advice? Like, do you want me to give you this or not? And again, that's it's people have to accept it. Um, and it's not easy when people give you feedback, but the people that have confidence and humility know what they're good at and are willing to say, hey, what am I missing here? Like, I've got this issue.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

What's what what what am I not seeing? Let me say this, and and I do believe that um unfortunately we're perfectly in concert on this. Sometimes we'll have a little disagreement here and there. So I'm sorry, guys, as you listen to us feeding each other. But the truth of the matter is, is you said something earlier that I think is actually the hidden message in this. I believe that sometimes there's a false modesty in people who pretend like they're humble. But but really the the truth to success in this formula is to be humble. It's the success that actually matters because you said it yourself. When you're confident but but you have no humility, um, and and we're talking about that balance, what happens is you don't have that natural belief that, hey, I could be better at something. That's humility. Um you know, maybe somebody does have a better idea than I do. That's humility. Maybe I could grow to another level, maybe I'm only at an eight and I can be a nine. So you can still be confident, but you have an awareness that look, I can still be better, and part of that is that balance of humility. So I'm gonna say not only is it something where you you go around and brag about how humble you are. Look, I'm I'm very humble. I'm very humble. Um we kind of talked about the Drax uh Jeff you sent me. Um I'm I'm very humble. I am very humble. Right, right. Okay, sure. Right. But the idea is is it's actually the key to making the confidence work.

Accountability Circles And Honest Feedback

SPEAKER_00 15:27

So it really is. And it's I often like to say it's you are you have confident humility. Like if I could ask leaders to have something, that's what I want everyone to have. I want what I want my kid to have. I want my kid who's seven years old and thinks he can do anything in the world to be humble and realize like he still has things to learn. Yeah, right? Exactly. But I also think, too, what you're talking about is we all have blind spots, we all have biases, we have things that like based on how I was raised, that like I try and do certain things or I try and maybe please people more than others, and that's a blind spot of mine. And I gotta recognize that because if I don't, I'm going to be too confident. Oh, yeah. And I'm gonna walk on top of people, and I'm gonna take control of things, and I'm gonna use my strengths and talents in a way that aren't positive. That like I like to think of it like this. I say to individuals when we're coaching, and I've talked a lot about this lately, is like every talent has the ability to either be refined or to be really raw. Um, and when it's refined, I'm using it in a way where I'm confident in my skills, but also recognizing that like you might not like the fact that I like to take over and take control, and I'm naturally good at that. Yeah. And that if I'm not humble enough to realize that other people don't operate the same way I do, then I'm gonna do it in a really raw, uncomfortable way that you don't enjoy. Yeah. Um, and that's not what anybody wants.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Well, I uh uh love that. And I'm going to go into one thing, and I'm speaking from a place of experience. And I feel I feel like this is a good thing because if you're out there and you're in the sales field, um, I feel like we can all say that we've experienced something I'm about to say. Uh most of my career in some form or fashion, I've been doing sales. Um, even if you're and I believe almost every company, everybody does sales, but you know, as a manager I've done sales, as a salesman, I've done sales, as a lower level person, I've done sales. But the idea is I would get them these roles, and if you have done sales and you can uh relate with me, write the show, tell us about it. And tell us about when you got your humbling, but you'll get to these points where you you've run eight or nine leads in a row, sold them all. You're bad boy, you're you're almost melding it in, you're selling them so easy. And I've been there where I've gotten that point where I'm like, I'm just selling everything I'm talking about. I don't even and what happens when you do that without the balance of humility is the next lead you go in, you're you're melding it in because you're overconfident, and then that's the one that says, nah, we went somewhere else. And all of a sudden, either you have the ability to go, oof, I need to check myself, humility level raising, or maybe you just bury your head in the sand and go, I'm gonna keep pounding through. They're the dumb ones, not me. I'm the guy who, like, when that first shot happens and they say we went another direction, I'm like, oh, oh man, yeah. But if I had just applied the humility the whole way along, that might have been 10 for 10 instead of nine for ten. And there is a goal for all of us.

Confident Humility And Blind Spots

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Yeah. And but it's it's when it's yeah, and I think there was a level of humility as you're doing it, right? Because if you're approaching every one of those sales calls as an as a new person and an opportunity, and you're, you know, you're using what you do well, but it's when that humility disappears. Yeah. Right? So so then I would question, and I wonder what your thoughts are. How do I get the humility back when it disappears? Well, I think that I think this is where they say eat a piece of humble pie. Like, go go fail. Like, how do I do it?

SPEAKER_01 18:39

But you know, here's the problem with that. Everybody's different. You know, I was the kid who, when I was a little kid, if my parents, you know how they would discipline me? They didn't have to spank me, they didn't have to go put me on timeout or anything. All they have to say is, I'm so disappointed in you. And I'm and I'm getting it back. But my sister, if they said that, she'd be like, Oh, that's all, that's all, you're just disappointed? Score. Score, right? And and Jordan hits it too. No, but so I think that you have to have your level, but again, it goes back to the council. Hopefully, when you're telling the story later and you're like, I can't believe these people won't buy from me. Somebody like your wife says, Well, did you did you do your full pitch today? And you go, Well, no, and she's like, Well, why not? Why, yeah, what happened? And then all of a sudden you you're having to account for that, right? Now, maybe there's something. Hey, look, you made me think of something. I got a phrase. This is for the salespeople out there. Sales is humility. And what I mean by that is you you made a very astute thing. I believe that if you have a humility to you, the sales pay sell for themselves because people don't want a cocky salesman coming in, an arrogant salesperson. A humble salesperson says, Hey, I'm here to help you. What can I do? Teach me about you. I want to hear how you're talking about.

Sales Lessons: Humility Sells

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Make sure that I'm I'm the right person for you, right? Like you come to me and say, Hey, I've got this problem. Can you help me with it? I'm like, I don't know if I can help you with it, right? That's humble. It's okay, cool. Like, I maybe I don't have the answer. Maybe I don't have the answer. Let's find out if it is. Let's go to the manager. Let's talk, or even just like, you know, folks come to me a lot of times and say, hey, we're having this issue with employees. Like, can you come in and do team building and fix it? And I'm like, I don't, I don't know if I can. Um and honestly, that's like a thing. They're like, you know, come and like help us with the engagement.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

But you gotta you gotta know, I love the mentality. It's like, hey, all my employees are railing against me. Can you do a team building and get that fixed?

SPEAKER_00 20:26

You know, it's like that's that's but that's what that's what many folks think. And I'm like, I don't I know that I can give them some skills. I know I can help you as a leader and give you the right skills. I have the confidence myself to know that I can give you the content and the skills and the you know the the ways to improve your morale and and your culture and your team, but I also don't know the reality of your team like you do. And I that's for me, that's humility. It's it's admitting what I know and don't know, you know. It's like I think honestly, I think about um it happened back in in 2020 when you know the world shut down, and right, I remember it. I I loved uh I don't watch it as much as I used to, but I loved um NBA. I know you're you're a big basketball guy. And so um I remember when the NBA was one of the first leagues to shut down, right? And so I remember when Adam Silver, the commissioner at the time was like, I don't know how we're gonna do this, but we're gonna figure out how to get this back up and running. So that like sentence or statement, I remember it because to me it's like that's confident and humble in the same thing. I don't know how we're gonna do this, but we're gonna do it. Right, right. And then they get this bubble up and they have no COVID um cases throughout the whole thing. Like they're no, that's leadership. It's saying, I don't know how on earth I'm gonna do this for your team, but I'm gonna do what I can to make it happen.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Well, and and I'll hit one more quick thing about sales, and we'll kind of start landing the plane a little bit. Um, even though I think I can talk about this all day. I just don't know if everybody can listen to it all day. My humility says I don't know if they can listen to it all day. I'm applying what we're learning here. But but I will say this going back to the sales thing, um, this is a fact. This is a fact. When you get into these situations where you're you're dealing with a homeowner, I've told many young salesperson, and when I say young, I mean new to the sales industry. Don't go in bashing forward, believing you know everything about this person when you know nothing about this person. And that's part of the humility side. When we approach every single person like, I'm gonna do this, and then they are going to do this, that that is that is overconfidence and it it's a it's a misnomer. And so we spend all this time trying to train people on when this happens, you say this, and when this happens, you say this. But the truth of the matter is, is the humility of it says, I know nothing about this person. So I've always I I show the picture on when I'm doing the sales training of a lady looking out the window for the sales guy coming to the front door, and the point of that is is like who is this guy? Until you get over that hurdle, I don't care what you're selling. Yep.

Curiosity As A Core Leadership Skill

SPEAKER_00 22:51

So I honestly, one word I don't think we've said, but I think it's a massive piece of humility. And you you kind of touched on it in what you just said, and like every person I don't really know. I think if there's a skill that that we could develop as leaders, it's the skill of curiosity. And so I think if I'm humble, I'm willing to say, what do I not know about you? What do I need to learn about you? How can we connect? I'm curious about maybe why they said this thing, or what's the reason they said that instead of reacting the way that I thought they were gonna react. And if you're not curious, you're probably gonna struggle to be humble. And when the person says the thing that catches you off guard, or when the employee does the thing and you go, What the heck? Like, why what are my confidence kicks in and I can think they don't know what they're talking about. Or I can think, maybe I don't know what their experience is, and I need to figure out more so that I can actually use my skills the right way and make the sale. Yeah. Otherwise, I'm gonna miss out on this because I wasn't curious enough.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Man, you're the ultimate team guy. You're you're always like looking and saying, What could I have done different to have made this outcome different? I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Yeah, that's what leads, but I I I wish all leaders were like that. Yeah, yeah. And it's a skill, and it's not, and I I appreciate you saying I'm the ultimate team guy. Um, right? Like I know that I can be a good team player, but I also know that I still have a lot to learn.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

And I'm willing to to ask and and figure it out, and I think that's what we all need to work on.

Recap, Teaser On Curiosity, Sponsors

SPEAKER_01 24:19

No, that's fair, that's fair. Well, listen, uh, good show. I think we have some uh good thoughts for today. And we could do a recap and say do one, two, and three, but I think that we really covered a lot of things. We you know, the humility is a key part of growth of any individual, more so even than confidence in a lot of cases, because the humility tells you to keep working, keep getting better. Uh we talked about sales and humility and the and the commonality between them. You really have to have humbleness if you really want to be a great salesperson with a little confidence too. This isn't about bashing confidence, we're just saying you have to have it. And then uh lastly, you know, don't get overconfident. Don't ever get into a situation where we're walking in blind, and that's what happens as a product of having no humility, right? So well, very cool, man. Hey, look, uh you you talked about something. Spoiler alert for the fans listening for the next show. Uh our next show is actually How Leaders Stay Curious and Keep Learning. So he's talking all this curiosity stuff. There's a little teaser for next week, right? All right, cool. All right. Well, hey, Nick, good show. Appreciate you being on as always. Thanks for having me. Um we want to thank everybody. Thank you, Carolina Bayes, Real Estate and Construction, for the sponsorship. Thank you, the Modern Homes Podcast, our good buddies on the other kind on the other side of things. Thank you, McLeod Hospital. You know, they're they're always McCloud Health is leading the way. So um appreciate him for loaning this guy to us here and there. All right. And uh we will see you all next time on the Leader Mentality Show with Rob Clemens and Nick D.Stefano.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Hi, friends.