The Conversation with Nadine Matheson
Welcome to The Conversation with Nadine Matheson, where best-selling author of the 'Detective Inspector Anjelica Henley' series Nadine Matheson sits down with fellow authors for insightful, honest, and entertaining conversations. Each episode dives deep into the world of writing, from the publishing journey to overcoming challenges, the experiences that shape their work, and anything else that comes up when great minds come together. Whether you're a fan of gripping stories or curious about the life behind the books, 'The Conversation' promises thought-provoking chats and moments of inspiration.
If you'd like to be a guest or have a message or question, reach out to us at theconversation@nadinematheson.com.
Finalist -Independent Podcast Awards 2024
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The Conversation with Nadine Matheson
Elizabeth Solaru: A Tale of Lab Coats, Luxury Cakes and Books
What happens when you realise your life's potential extends far beyond your current path? Multi-award winning luxury business strategist and author Elizabeth Solaru faced this exact moment while working as a microbiologist, sparked by a mundane conversation about courgettes that made her question everything. Her remarkable journey from laboratory technician to luxury cake artist serving royalty demonstrates how recognising your untapped potential can transform your entire existence. With unflinching honesty, Elizabeth reveals the pivotal moments that shaped her career trajectory, from resigning without a backup plan to cold-calling her way into elite circles with nothing but determination and £40 in the bank.
Elizabeth tells her story and gives advice in her new book, The LUXpreneur. Whether you're considering a career pivot, starting a business, or simply feeling that there should be more to your professional life, Elizabeth's journey offers both practical wisdom and the permission to believe in possibilities beyond your current circumstances. What potential within you is waiting to be unleashed?
Check out her stunning luxury cakes🎂
The LUXPreneur: How To Build A Luxury Brand
The LUXPreneur: How to Start and Build a Successful Luxury Brand offers a comprehensive exploration into the world of luxury entrepreneurship. Authored by Elizabeth Solaru, this book addresses the pivotal question: "How do I find affluent clients?" Drawing on two decades of experience in catering to high-end clientele globally, Solaru provides an in-depth analysis of luxury entrepreneurship and client psychology.
The book categorizes various types of luxury entrepreneurs and delves into the distinct psychologies of luxury clients. It offers practical guidance on locating these clients both online and offline, and mastering the nuances of selling to them. Readers will uncover the strategies luxury brands employ to create allure and learn how to tailor their approach to different segments of luxury buyers, from aspira
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People are thinking you know, how dare you progress, how dare you have ambition when I've not even realised some of my dreams? Or I may never realise some of my dreams, but that's a story they tell themselves.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Conversation with your host, nadine Matheson. As always, I hope that you're well and I hope that you've had a good week. I think the past seven days have been the most interesting because I think sometimes, as writers, we can stop ourselves from telling certain stories because we think, well, no one's going to believe this. This isn't grounded, it's just, it's too far-fetched. But if you've been paying attention to the news and more specifically, what happened in the States with a journalist, jeffrey Goldberg, the editor-in-chief of the Atlantic, being added to the US Defence Secretary's group chat on Signal and being privy to plans to bomb Yemen, I think if this was fiction, most of us would just say no, it's completely unrealistic. No one would believe that. But it happened. And I always say on my other podcast every day there's something new, there's something even more jaw dropping. So if you have a question in yourself about whether or not you should be telling the story that you have imagined in your head, whether or not you should be telling the story that you have imagined in your head, whether or not you think it's too far-fetched, just go ahead and do it, because the world is well, it's unbelievable at the moment. So don't be afraid of pursuing your story. And the concept of telling your story is, I think, a nice segue to my introduction of today's guest.
Speaker 2:So this week I'm in conversation with Elizabeth Sularu, and Elizabeth Sularu is a author, a multi-award winning luxury business coach and strategist, and also and you're going to hear me say it repeatedly during the course of our conversation she's called a luxury cake maker. But go to the show notes and you'll find the links not only to her book, the Luxpreneur, but also to her website. And when I told you about the description of luxury cake maker, it's just not fit. When you go into her Instagram page page, you'll know exactly what I mean. Her amazing cake making skills led to her having her appearing on a show and becoming a consultant on movies, like my best friend's wedding.
Speaker 2:She's just an amazing person and you're going to hear all about her story, from microbiologist to headhunter to, as I said, a luxury business coach and strategist. And also, in today's conversation, elizabeth and I talk about the biggest mistake entrepreneurs make in business telling the story of your brand and the importance of focusing on your own journey. Now, as always, sit back. We'll go for a walk and enjoy the conversation. Elizabeth Sularu, welcome to the Conversation. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Nadine, for having me. I'm so excited to chat with you today.
Speaker 2:I'm extremely excited. I was saying to you before we started officially recording I'm so excited to talk to you about so many different things because I think you're amazing. But my first question for you is how did you, elizabeth Sularu, get from? How would you describe your journey from microbiologist luxury cake artist and I feel like I'm doing it a disservice by saying luxury cake artist. I feel like it deserves something much more of an elaborate title because your cake. You need to go on her website. They're amazing. And award winning business consultant and now author.
Speaker 1:So how would you describe your journey? Oh, ok, I would say my journey. I think it's one of curiosity, it's one of adventure, but it was a journey that, honestly, I, even at the beginning, I couldn't even have imagined it would take that kind of direction, because I went to university. I'm from a Nigerian household where education is everything. So I went to university, I studied microbiology and then I studied medical microbiology and parasitology as my master's and all I wanted to do was work in a lab and hopefully become a professor one day. And I actually started a PhD at Birkbeck. Yeah, started at Birkbeck Long story. I'm not going to bore you with why I started that, but I worked with the NHS for 13 years, or even more actually, because started as a trainee scientist at St Mary's Hospital, ended up at Great Ormond Street Hospital and I was fairly happy.
Speaker 1:But then it was a random conversation with somebody who was sitting across from me in the lab and she was talking about having courgettes for dinner. And I know that sounds random, but I just I remember this was like, because when you sit across from someone and when you're rotored to a particular section, you were there for like six weeks and every evening that's the same conversation I've been hearing and I remember thinking there's got to be more to my life, I don't want to die, I love that. So I then decided to resign. But then other things. You know, there were other reasons as well. I decided to resign and I knew if I didn't do it on the spot, then I'll never do it, I'll just be trapped. So I resigned and I had no job and I remember this was on a Monday, on a Thursday. I was walking past a lab phone and it rang because anyone near it to it, you just pick it up and answer the inquiry. And there was an agency at the other end saying would you like to work for us? We're looking for locums. And I said yes, please. And he was like, oh, this is surprising, because usually you guys in labs you tell us for locums. And I said yes, please. And he was like, oh, this is surprising, because usually you guys in labs you tell us to go away. And I'm like, nope, today's your lucky day, you know and that. So I started locum in.
Speaker 1:So I left my job to locum in and then I decided to do an MBA because it had business in it and I knew I had vague ideas of doing business and did the MBA. And while I was doing the MBA I realized that, oh my God, the degree in itself is not going to get me what I want to do. So I started networking like mad. I mean, I started, I just found, I found all these incredible events. I started going and then I networked myself into a headhunting job and the second half of my career really took off.
Speaker 1:I was recruiting chief executives and finance directors, having never run a lemonade stand. These were people with multi, multi-million pound budgets. But then I realized I had a knack for it. I had a knack for reading people. For me it was a psychology and I realized that my job as a headhunter was one of matchmaker. So I was literally just bringing candidate and client together and it had to be the right fit and the right match found a way to throw in the what I will call a wild card candidate. I'll say to them I know it's not what you asked for, but you need to have a look at this person.
Speaker 2:And yeah, so that was how my headhunting career, that was how it took off just to go back, because you said, like you knew something was missing when you were sitting, sitting in the lab opposite the lady talking about courgettes and I just had. I had this flashback image too. I've not, maybe I must have been, I don't know 24, 25 maybe and just going to work and having that moment when I didn't even walk into the office because it was a large open plan office, but I walked. I was in the doorway looking around at everyone and there was this one woman who I wasn't particularly keen on, um, but I was in the doorway looking around at everyone and there was this one woman who I wasn't particularly keen on.
Speaker 2:I was thinking I can't, I can't be doing this every day. Like I just can't, this cannot, this cannot be my life. Yeah, like I always think it's like a lot of people have those moments. They walk into work, they walk into whatever, and they think, no, this can't be my life, there has to be something more. So what was it that you thought was missing? No, this can't be my life, there has to be something more so what?
Speaker 2:was it that you thought was?
Speaker 1:missing. Did you? Could you? Could you name it? I just think. I think for me, I thought there was a lot more I could do with my life. I think there was a lot more. I didn't have the words to describe it, but I felt I had a lot of untapped potential. Because what one of the things that had happened and it's funny because I never really thought of you know. Again, another memory has been jogged. I've got that. You know, I talked about the PhD. I got it Birkbeck.
Speaker 1:Everybody was keen, but my place of work wouldn't give me the lab space. My manager refused to approve of me having lab space. Really, yeah, she just refused. I mean, there was a, there was a lot going on, and then what happened was there was a lot that went on, um, a lot. I mean, if people know what the workplace was like in the 90s, 80s, 90s, early 2000s, it was a completely different space. And she then resigned and went to a better job, like she was. She got a really, really better job.
Speaker 1:And I thought to myself so this is how people can destroy somebody's life and move on as if nothing happened. And I just knew I didn't want to be stuck, because if she can move on and not even nothing happened to her. Um, and then I remember when I resigned, uh, the new manager was like oh, you know, stay, we'll promote you. And I said when, when you know what is the plan, show me what is the agreement where is? And she was like well, you know what is the plan, show me what is the agreement. And she was like, well, you know, when a position arises, I'm like that could be for like 10 years, because nobody ever moves, nobody ever leaves. So, sorry, I'm leaving.
Speaker 1:And everybody was curious so where are you going? Do you have a place? I refused to say because nobody knew I did not have a place, I didn't have anywhere else to go. But I just knew at that point, if I didn't leave, I would never, ever, ever leave.
Speaker 1:And I do understand why people have to stay. If you've got family commitments I mean, I was single so if you have family commitments, if you have children, if you have dependents, sometimes you just have to stay and bear it until you get something better. But I promise you, if you feel you've got so much potential, so much untapped potential, even if you don't know what you want to do, you do deserve to explore. You deserve, you owe yourself to, just to go out there and explore. And because I'm now thankful, I look back and I'm thinking if they promoted me and treated me well, I would have stayed there for life and I would have been happy, but I wouldn't have realised other things that I could do with my life. So I can look back and say thank you for not promoting me.
Speaker 2:I think the problem is I say the problem is that we will stay where we're comfortable and where you have that security. So you know you might. You know you've got the security of getting paid every month and even though the amount's not changing and it probably hasn't changed for five years, but you've got a security. If you're getting paid every month, you know you're surrounding, you're comfortable where you are, but when? But then when you're looking around, you're saying other people could be progressing or they're stopping your progress, but then they're flying high and they're not even looking back at you when they walk out the front door. You don't have to look at yourself and be think, okay, well, what, what do I want? What am I actually going to be doing with my life?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And I think that when it comes to because that's the thing I think we have a school system that trains us on, you know, passing your exams and whatever you're good at, you know, go ahead, forge a career in that if you are lucky. But I remember in my day and I'm really grateful that a couple of my degrees I didn't do them in this country because I was born in London. Then we got taken back to Nigeria. Then I came back and I'm so grateful because I had colleagues who were told oh, you can't do X, you can only do Y. And I remember working with someone who truly believed that she didn't have the brains because of her skin colour and she was really, really discouraged from and she turned out to be a maths genius. She turned out to be a maths genius but she was literally told in school no, no, no, no, no, you can't do that. That's too, that's unrealistic. You need to do xyz.
Speaker 1:So I think for some of us having to deal with that, then having to deal with some of the trauma that's involved and pushing back and that sort of thing. So that is why now, if people we live in times where people can explore, you have the freedom to explore. If you want to explore, you owe yourself that at least you can. When you're old and gray you can say you know what. At least I tried, at least I went for it. It's better to try and fail than never to try at all yeah, it goes back to.
Speaker 2:I was having a conversation yesterday with another author for the podcast and she was explaining to me how, when she was younger, she had to have special education classes and a special education teacher and she just never believed that she would be able to write a book.
Speaker 2:And what we were talking about is the impact of not only the stories that you tell yourself, but also the stories that other people will tell you. So people say well, you know, maybe because you come from this sort of background, you went to this sort of school, then you can only do this one particular thing and don't have any other aspirations. Or you tell yourself, or you tell yourself those stories well, there's no way I could write a book, there's no way I could have my own business. But then there's always. There's always a moment, there's always some kind of pivotal moment that changes the trajectory of your thinking and then, in turn, your life. But the stories we tell ourselves. I mean, I think if I listened to half the stories I told myself or other people, I wouldn't have gone anywhere exactly and we need to examine where those stories come from.
Speaker 1:So, before we even are fully conscious and telling ourselves story when we're babies, when we're little, um, obviously, the environment, the family you come from, what you're exposed to, what you see around you. And then, little by little, around the age of six, when you go to school, there are other stories as well that you get told by teachers, educators, your classmates, people around you. So it's never, ever ending. And at some point, when we then become conscious, we're thinking we can either accept those stories or we reject them, or we can actually create new stories. We can create new stories and say actually, um, I reject that, this is the new story about myself, these are.
Speaker 1:And then you I think this is where a healthy dose of curiosity and testing those theories is this even true? Because you may have believed something about yourself your whole life and then realize, actually it's not even true. But you wouldn't know that. And I believe that it's very. This is why I really, really I'm very passionate about us writing our own books, writing our own stories, and I was saying to somebody the other day that if you look at very the great houses or the great aristocratic families. You know the really some are high-end clients. They're always passionate about writing their family history, having a book of some sort. There's no business person that you can think of. They all have a book, and that's not because they need to write a book, but there's a reason for it. They want their side of history to be told. So that that's one of the reasons I just thought to myself no, I've got to do something. I've got to do more than just I've got to do write my own story yeah, I, it's all, just all about jogging memories.
Speaker 2:Today I had a memory of being younger and a family member you know so, talking again about the stories that you tell yourself or other people tell you and I remember this family member told my mother that to to encourage us to go to university like she was, it was too much.
Speaker 2:You shouldn't encourage us to go into university because it was kind because of where you know, we didn't go to private school, we lived in. So we lived in southeast London, you know, started out in a council estate, all all of those, all of those things. And all of that was to say you know, if you're you just push, you, just you know you're setting them up for failure if you're encouraging them to go to university because they haven't had the start which they thought you needed in order to progress. And thankfully, thankfully, I have a mother who just completely ignores all that and say you need to go as far as you can go, as far as you believe that you can go. But if you listen to these other people, I said you would just stop yourself, you just wouldn't do anything and also a lot of people are talking about their private fears, their projects.
Speaker 1:I believe some people are projecting either their private fears, or envy, or whatever emotion it is, or hatred or whatever, or jealousy, because I suspect you know the person probably looked at you guys and thought, oh, they might go really, really far. There's that fear sometimes when people I don't know I think some people talk about the crab in the crabs in the bucket syndrome, where if a crab's trying to climb out of the bucket it gets pulled back by other crabs. It's an american thing, so, and there's that as well, because people are thinking you know, how dare you progress, how dare you have ambition when I've not even realized some of my dreams? Or I may never realize some of my dreams, but that's a story they tell themselves, because dreams haven't. I don't believe that your dreams have any time limit, unless, of course, you know, there's a physical impossibility to doing it. So if I say I want to be 100 meters, that's never gonna happen. I can tell you that, unless I'm 100 meters world champion for maybe the over 80s or under 80s. So again, you know.
Speaker 2:So it's about how, it's about what we, it's about how we feel about ourselves, and that's what we're going to project onto other people yeah, because again, talking yesterday to another author, it was also this whole thing she had oh, I'm gonna be too old to write a book. And she was in her 40s. I'm like what? No? I said no, you are be too old to write a book. And she was in her 40s. I'm like what? No? I said no, you are never too old. 40 is an amazing age time period to be in, but you are never too old to start anything. So you know, when you moved into headhunting, did you have any doubts, or was it because you were like, no, I'm out already and you've kind of worked out the system for yourself? Did that remove any doubts you had?
Speaker 1:Oh God, absolutely not. I mean, obviously, there are always doubts, there are always doubts. I always do it afraid, I do it frightened, I do it, you know, with my knees knocking, but I still do it. I think that's the difference and I also think that I think Michelle Obama also said something like once you've been in those rooms, you realize how, you realize how mediocre a number of people are. Once you've been in those rooms, you will actually be shocked, um, at how.
Speaker 1:Because I think we always take for granted that if you're in that position, you got there because you're, you're clever and you're this. And yes, there is a cleverness, there's intelligence, but the one thing is there's a supreme self-confidence and assurance that some people have and that, more than education, more than anything, is what matters, that self-belief. And I remember there was an entrepreneur that was affiliated with a company and I said to him you know, cause? He was a go-getter, he was doing incredible stuff, meeting with ministers and he was just winning contracts. And I said you know why, you know what made you, you know? And he said belief. I'm like do you mean belief in your product? Or he said no. He said you know why, you know what made you, you know, and he said belief. I'm like do you mean belief in your product? Or he said no, he said belief, and that really, really stuck with me. And it was years later that I understood what he meant about belief, just sheer, blinded belief, you know, whether in self, whether in serendipity, whether in just knowing that if I step into the room, people are going to help me, and some people just have that. And I believe many of us need to really develop that, that the world is our oyster, it's ours for the conquering. We can do anything.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, I had lots of doubts. I had a lot of doubts and, in fact, um, because the headhunting world is, is, is head, you know, it's quite dog eat dog. It's, yeah, very vicious. People will sense those doubts and capitalize on those doubts and poach your clients. Um, they would, you know, the client that you nurtured and maybe brought in, um, maybe a candidate that you brought in another headhunter would say, actually, I'm going to take them out to lunch and they'll go out to lunch with the other headhunter because they're both of the same gender and, of course, the same, the same skin color. Yeah, so while you're still sitting there doubting saying, oh, do I take them out? You know what do do? Somebody else is coming and poach a client, so yeah, yeah, it was a different world, but I learned, I think, a lot of my learning about human nature, psychology, et cetera was when I was a headhunter. I learned a lot.
Speaker 2:And whilst you were being a headhunter so you know, being a microbiologist and then moving into headhunting are you still doing your cakes on the side of that? Because this is because this is the amazing thing about Elizabeth, right, when you start doing your, when you go online and you go on Instagram and you click on Elizabeth's name and you see these amazing celebration luxury I can't even describe them, I can't. My words cannot do it justice, right? So you, obviously you've got this strong academic side and you move into the headhunting business, but you've also got this strong creative side, which comes through your baking. How aware of that were you? And also, how did you? How did you keep hold of it? Because when, all, when your focus is just education, it can be easy to let that just slide, okay so I'll just take you back slightly.
Speaker 1:When I was about 11 12, a friend of mine gave me a cookbook and in that cookbook was a recipe for Victoria sponge and I baked it. It worked and I got hooked on baking. But obviously I did that for maybe like three, four years, but then education, et cetera. When I became a headhunter was when I resuscitated the baking, but it was a side hustle, so nobody in the office knew I had a website. I would save up my money. I would go to cake camp in America to learn.
Speaker 2:Hold on hold on hold on cake camp Is there a cake camp.
Speaker 1:There's a cake camp in America.
Speaker 2:There are cake camps.
Speaker 1:All you do is learn about different methods of cake decorating or baking. We had cake heroes that would come. There was a lady, her name was Colette Peters. She was a designer for Tiffany's, the jewellery company, and then her boss discovered that she could bake. So she did some cakes for the display windows of Tiffany's bake. So she did some cakes for the display windows of Tiffany's, and from there she was discovered by Martha Stewart and then her career just went boom and she wrote a book. And I then wrote to her saying you know, I would love to learn from you. I ordered her book.
Speaker 1:It took six weeks to arrive at Foyles in London because in those days we didn't have internet shopping. So I remember going down to Foyles collecting my book and I used to sleep with that book for, I'd say, for a good two years. That was my Bible and yeah, so I was able to learn from Colette. I discovered other cake makers as well in America because I did some courses in the UK. But that that is another story. I can write a book about that. You know, I write a book about that because I was usually the only person of color in the room and that was. That was a different whatever, so anyway.
Speaker 1:So when I was a headhunter, I up my money, go to cake camp, learn, learn, learn. And then I started practicing, gave loads of cakes away to family and friends. Uh, created a website but nobody knew it was a side hustle, until I then started doing uh, exhibitions, a wedding fairs, so I take my cakes to wedding fairs. Because it was a side hustle, so I wasn't bothered. I wasn't. You know, if I got a client, great, if I didn't, didn't bother me. And it was at that wedding show, one one particular wedding show, that a tv producer spotted my cakes and he then got me on wedding tv and then he created a show which I believe was the was the first one before Off. So he created a show where he invited wedding cake makers to come and compete the similar format to Bake Off.
Speaker 1:And I was unknown. I said to him I'm not a professional, I've got my proper job. So, and I gave him a list of bakers. You did, yeah, yeah. I said, look, this is a list of bakers. You did, yeah. I said, look, this is a list of bakers, go and talk to them. I'm not professional. And he insisted. He said he's there with Simon Whittington. He said no, no, no, I want a mixed ability group, I want you to be part of this cohort. And I said fine, and I remember going the morning of, you know, because we got given a brief. You create the cakes, three different categories, I created my cakes, et cetera, and to everyone's surprise and horror, even I won three out of three times in all my categories and that was the. That, literally in the cake world anyway, that was my claim to fame in the cake world. Anyway, that was my claim to fame. Um, it was, the program was on wedding tv in those days because youtube was literally in its infancy, because we're talking like early noughties, aren't we early 2000s?
Speaker 1:no mid mid, mid, yeah, around about mid, I mean youtube probably had about two million, two million, if that, two million users and yeah, so wedding tv uh wasn't, and wedding tv was a big deal because there wasn't any other dedicated wedding um television, uh program. So, yeah, so that was how boom. Um, everyone knew, oh my god, who is she, etc. Etc. And I used to get thousands and at least a hundred thousand visits to my website in those days, which was huge, which was huge so that. So that was how I realized the power of the internet, because I didn't even realize the power of um tv or exposure. For me, it was like oh my god, this is the power of the internet. And yes, so that was how um, things started happening. And then, 2008, um, the recession happened, lost my job and I decided, okay, this is it. If I don't do it now, I'll never do it. And that's when I started my um, my cake company, proper, proper, um, but yeah, but I've been doing it as a side hustle for a few years.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, you know, I'm sitting here like my hand underneath my chin and just like I'm doing the thing I would never do in court, which is like have an expression. But I just think it's amazing how Simon, this producer, approaches you at this wedding show. You're on your, you're at your store, your cake store and he says he wants you, but you're giving him a list of other people fear and doubt.
Speaker 1:Fear and doubt. Remember we spoke about it earlier on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but there's, so I can probably think there's so many times. Not, I'm not talking about myself, just people in general who may be approached to I don't know, take on a project or, I don't know, make a cake. It's just so many different things. But and they say no like. Oh, no, no like. Why are you looking at me? You need to be looking over there and they, they talk themselves out of opportunities. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's I just. Yeah, I'm just sitting there like I can't believe you go. That's that's work. You know, it's not easy to sit there and come up with a list of other people.
Speaker 1:That's that's work yeah, um, yeah, but then again, um, I think, to be honest, he kind of understood and he appreciated what I did. I think he kind of appreciated and but the fact that he insisted that's that's a really, really lovely of him, because some people would have just moved on to OK, she doesn't want to do it, fine. But he was like no, no, no, no, no. I see something in you. There is, it's you, I want you and I wish that many more people were like that, you know. Or sometimes, if you have a boss who's like that, you better treasure that boss. Sometimes they give you a stretch project at work and you're thinking no, no, no, no. If the boss is giving it to you, it's a stretch project.
Speaker 2:It's better for you to do it and fail and then learn learn a number of lessons than pass it up. So I would always encourage people to yeah, just go for it. Where did you think your side hustle was going to take you? Because I think now, now I say nowadays people use the term side hustle but they use it in a way that it means that this is my side hustle, but in my head it's just going to be making me millions. I mean, I think that's kind of the mindset of people now when they think about side hustles. But what was your mindset back then when you said it was my side? Did you recognize it as a side hustle? Oh, this is just a hobby that will give me maybe a little bit of extra income.
Speaker 1:Oh, I think that's yeah, I think, more of a hobby that will give me a little income if I was lucky, but because I was doing it for pleasure, I wasn't even thinking about the money side of things at all. And there's also something about knowing yourself. I didn't, because now that I've written my book I can think about oh my God, so I'm a particular luxury brand founder type, because many people, when they start a business, they need I firmly believe you need to know the type of entrepreneur that you are, because your type, you would look at your business as a hobby if you're a certain type. Because my type is artisan and visionary. So, as an artisan, I'm all about how, how I would create the best product.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as a visionary, I'm always thinking of the future, and that's good and bad. It's good because, as an artisan, attention to detail, etc. Important and as a visionary, always thinking about the future. But it's bad because, as an artisan, attention to detail, et cetera, important and as a visionary, always thinking about the future. But it's bad because, as an artisan, I'm not thinking about costings, I'm thinking about using the best of the best. I'm not thinking about pricing, I'm not thinking about positioning in the market. I'm not thinking about differentiation. I'm not thinking about what kind of client. I have an idea of the kind of client, but I've not looked deeply into the kind of clients I need to be selling to Yours is just about the product.
Speaker 2:It's about the product.
Speaker 1:As a visionary. Visionary actually makes it worse because it's visionary. I'm not grounded in the present, so I do not know if there's going to be this, it's going to be a tax increase or the business rates. So if you know yourself, you then OK. The type of people I need around me for my business to succeed I should have right from the beginning. I should have got a business manager, which is completely different to an accountant. I should have got a really incredible to an accountant. I should have got a really incredible, amazing marketing person. I should have got someone who is about the personal branding. But these are things you do not know at the time. So that is why I just felt it was important for me to write my book so I can tell people if you're a certain type, this is what you need to do. If you're a certain this, this is what you need to do. If you're a certain this, this is what you need to do If you're setting up a luxury business.
Speaker 1:These are the fundamentals, because when I looked around and I was reading these books on business and on luxury business, they're all written by either professors of luxury or luxury experts or people who have worked in the big brands. They were not written by people who have founded a luxury brand from scratch. Yeah, they're not written by people who've had no money, a second-hand mixer and 40 quid in the bank. They're not written by people like that. So I thought I'm going to write that.
Speaker 1:And, more importantly, nobody's really written about the different types of luxury clients, because, yes, they have money, but they're not all the same. And nobody's really written about the different types of luxury clients because, yes, they have money, but they're not all the same. And nobody's ever written about the different types of luxury brands. So for you to even start a luxury business, you need to know, okay, which type of brand do I want to start? Is it aspirational or is it ultra luxury? Because there's like at least five, six different types of luxury brands and there are eight different types of luxury clients. So, with my scientific head on, I decided to break everything down and make it easy reading so that people can read, understand and implement.
Speaker 2:So for me, um, that's what's driving, um, everything that I yeah, you know, because you're talking about archetypes and you're saying about being a visionary and being artistic. And you know, starting off with 40 quid in the bank and your secondhand mixer, and I always I mean I firmly believe this. I strongly believe that a lot of people stop themselves from doing things or they delay and delay and delay it because they feel like they need to have a certain amount of money in the bank before they can jack in the job and go and do something, do what they really want to do. Or they need to have the right computer or have the right KitchenAid 600 quid mixer. They need to have all of these things set in place before they can go on and start their endeavors.
Speaker 2:And I remember saying to my brother the one after my brother, gavin, after me, because he does um video production, so he works for like the video games companies, for like Nintendo and Sony and he builds the trailers.
Speaker 2:And I remember saying to him when he was working, so when he was employed for electronic arts, I said you need to do your, your main business, so you know your job. That pays the bill and then have your side hustle. You know doing, you're doing it yourself independently. I said you need to have these two things kind of running together like train tracks, and then there will come a point where your side hustle it basically it, it steams ahead and that falls in and you didn't have to decide okay, my side hustles make me more money than the main job, and then you're able to put that to the side. But I said, if you just wait and keep waiting to accumulate all these things, you'll never do the thing that you really, really want to do, and I think a lot of people stop themselves because they're just waiting to have everything perfect oh, absolutely I agree, um, but having said that, if people have and I'll reiterate, if you've got a family, you've got kids to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I can understand the delay. But, on the other hand, I think two things force people to take action trauma, desperation. Um, with my case, it was losing my job and thinking to myself okay, milestone birthday. If I don't do it now, I'll never do it. So that, so, that kind of contributed, so losing my job, and I'm saying you know what I'm, I really want to give this a go, um, properly. So. So, though, because even when you and this is the thing, um to agree with you even when you're trying to gather as much money together to fund your business, um and this is a thing sometimes with people of color because we don't get funding easily in fact, I believe not, point not one percent of all funding comes to us in the first place um, so, because we don't get funding easily, we're used to funding things ourselves, yeah, whereas the mentality of another demographic is other people's money, opm, let me find people who can fund this. It's a great idea, let me take it to them, let me see. And um, I, I remember reading the founders of Innocent Drinks.
Speaker 1:When they started they tried to get funding and they then asked all their friends. They said they've just sent a blast email saying do you know anyone who's rich? People of color. We wouldn't do that, we would not say that you know because with oh my God. But they said you know what these boys? They just said do you know anyone? With oh my god, what people? But they said you know what these boys? They just said do you know anyone who's rich? And somebody said yes, actually we know a couple of people and one of them ended up funding the initial stages of their business.
Speaker 1:Um, so there are things that I believe culturally, um, some people would naturally do because that is how they've grown up, that's their environment. But I think, with us people of color, because we know, okay, we're not going to get the funding anyway, we need to do, we need to do it ourselves, yeah, but I, but I do believe that things are changing. I've seen people now, you know, stepping up, trying, you know, getting the funding, etc. But I think there's something there about, yes, you can use your own money initially, but ideally, if you can get it funded, if it's a viable enough idea, people will fund it and remember that people that fund businesses, they know that out of the 10 businesses that they fund, only two will be successful and maybe they'll get one unicorn if they're lucky, but they know eight is not going to eight's going to fail. So they, if they're lucky, but they know eight is not going to eight's going to fail, so they know that yeah, they know the numbers listeners.
Speaker 2:It's time for a very short break. If you're enjoying this conversation with Nadine Matheson, I want to help keep the podcast going. Why not buy me a cup of coffee? Your support goes such a long way in keeping these conversations flowing. Just check out the link in the show notes.
Speaker 2:It's funny. I say it's not funny, but you know, when you're talking about your business and your approach and being a visionary, and when I think about self-publishing. So the first, my first book that was published, I self-published. It'm coming I'm sure it was 2015, but I quickly realized that you need to recognize your skill set. So I said it's complete. It's one thing completely being able to write the book and I've said for me and because I was doing my other job at the same time you know being a full-time lawyer but I said writing the book.
Speaker 2:I knew my skill set is writing. I quickly recognized my other skills. My skill sets are not marketing, they're not designing book covers. I can make cakes. I make nice cakes. I can't decorate like I'm not the best cake decorator at all, but my cake won't kill you. But I recognize my skill set. So, in terms of publishing, yeah, I can write a book but I cannot market the book, I can't promote the book. You need to find people to do those things for you and I think a lot of you know a lot of our success in regards whatever creative industry not even creative industry whatever industry you choose to go into is recognizing what your strengths are and what you can do and where you need to delegate oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And I think sometimes, when you start out as an entrepreneur, you feel you've got to do everything yourself, the. In fact, the earlier you can delegate, the better. So, as, right from when you start your business, if there are admin things you hate doing, delegate. If there are things you hate doing, delegate. Don't try to kill yourself. And talking about books, for example, um, if you've successfully self-published, even to get to that stage is a lot, um, and because the, the, the self-publishing industry is riddled with so many fly-by-night people, so many people who want to take advantage. So you've got to really, really stand your ground, and these are things you wouldn't know before you get into it. If that makes sense.
Speaker 1:And for me, it's not enough to write the book. So for me, my focus was on getting an amazing editor, getting somebody who can design the kind of book cover that I, because I know how I wanted it to look. So it was designing that book cover. That was impactful, because I know that my main, the main place I was going to sell it was going to be Amazon. And when I wrote my first book, I remember I got, I gathered together all the books in a similar genre and I laid them on the floor and I then tested a few colors against them, because the Amazon square is so important, your book needs to pop if it doesn't. So it was all about psychology, honestly, that biopsychology branding, um, then you then get the marketing side of things. So yeah, it was, yeah it's. It's. You learn and, like you said, you develop. Even if you don't have the skill sets at the beginning, you develop it at the end of the process if you survive it.
Speaker 2:So let's talk about, because your book the lux, the luxpreneur, and it's about building a successful luxury business, which you do have with elizabeth cakes in poor. I'm not keep saying I can't reiterate it enough, like my words can't do it justice. You just need to go on her website and look at the cakes and who your clients are. Could you describe your clients as being ultra high net worth individuals? So we are dealing with royalty and aristocrats people and I think, well, not. I think I know there's a big difference between, I think, what most people consider to be wealth when you're looking at the brand and I'm just throwing random brands out there, I'm just saying if you're looking like brands like Louis Vuitton and Gucci's and stuff, but there's a big that's completely different in when you're dealing, I think, with high net worth individuals. How did you find yourself there?
Speaker 1:And then I have other questions for you about this. Okay, that's a phenomenal question. So I did two things. This was really back in the day and I believe it still works, but people now rely on social media. So the first thing I did was I remember one of my delivery drivers was talking about leafleting and I said, oh, do you leaflet really nice areas? He said, yes, we do. So I created these incredible looking cards of my cake designs and I gave them to him to leaflet and that cost me roughly maybe 20 quid a week. So he would go to like really, really nice areas and he would leaflet and I would get at least three inquiries after every leafleting. So that was that it was literally so simple. Um, people do direct marketing nowadays, but it was really simple. So I did that. And the second thing I did was I took the yellow pages. It was a massive phone book in those days the yellow pages could kill somebody.
Speaker 1:It was so big so I remember the the section for um, event planning, was really thick and I called every event planner in the yellow pages and when I made call 120, because the one thing we were trained to do as headhunters was make cold calls. So and it was about getting the no's, it wasn't even about getting the yeses, it was about getting the no's. The quickly you got your no's, the more, the quicker you get your yes, because we were always trying to get meetings with chief executives who were looking to recruit. So I made those phone, those cold calls to event planners. I got lots of rude people telling me to go away. But one afternoon, one afternoon, I got a voice, young voice, at the other end saying yes, we are looking for a cake maker and do you make cupcakes? And I said yes, we do make cupcakes. And I said to her, because I've been trained to say this I'm going to be in your area in the next three days and I will bring you some samples hold on, even though right first there's two questions.
Speaker 2:When you say, we do make cupcakes, is it just? Is it just you, or was there a team? It was just me secondly, you were not even going to be in the area, but you just said you're going to be in the area because I looked at the address anyway, because in the yellow pages the address is listed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah they were, it was west, it was west London, and I thought, why not? You know why not? At least it's a yes and it's an opportunity and I take seriously because the oh my god, one thing I've learned about life the opportunity you look down on the most could be the one that gives you the biggest breakthrough. So I just said, yes, I wasn't going to be there and the three days was so I can have enough time to get boxes, enough time to gather materials and my designs, etc. So I then uh, dropped the cakes off three days later and I remember thinking you're not going to hang around and chat, you are going to say delivery from Elizabeth's Cake Emporium. You're going to act like the courier because you don't know if they like your face, your race or your grace. So drop the cakes. And I remember talking to myself like that.
Speaker 1:So I did that, dropped off the cakes. And I remember talking to myself like that. So I did that, dropped off the cakes, and I legged it. And I was on the bus on the way back home when I got a call saying Lady Elizabeth would like to see you. And I'm like who's Lady Elizabeth? And it turned out that it was Lady Elizabeth Anson, the first cousin to the late Queen Elizabeth Wow, she was the owner of the company and she was extremely impressed with the look, the taste, everything. So of course I went, you know, hopped off the bus, turned back, went back and she was like I'm like, yeah, made the cakes. And then she gave me an order on the spot, wrote me a check from a private bank.
Speaker 1:Coots, I wish I could have kept it, but I was too poor not to cash it. And, of course, I made the classic mistake I wish I could have kept it, but I was too poor not to cash it. And, of course, I made the classic mistake I undercharged. I didn't charge for delivery. All the rookie mistakes. I made those mistakes.
Speaker 2:Well, you learn, don't you? You learn Exactly well you learn.
Speaker 1:So, and that was how. Now, the story would have been amazing if it ended there. But after the party, once I delivered it, you know, the party weeks later, she then wrote me handwritten notes saying your cakes were the best tasting of the night, they were the best looking of the night. I didn't realize they used 3k makers. I didn't realize, um, because I only did the cupcakes.
Speaker 1:And she said that, um, you know, she gave me a glowing, glowing, glowing, you know, really lovely letter and she said you, and she said to me you can use my words on all your marketing material, and so, of course, it's still on my website, by the way, and god rest your soul. Um, she's, she's, you know, passed over now, um, and yeah, so, somebody like that in that position helping somebody like me unasked. So that is why I always try to pay it forward wherever I can, because it was the most unexpected help and I just worked with her ever since then, you know, occasionally, when she needs a cake or whatever, when she, you know, yeah, yeah. So that was how I got my other lucky break.
Speaker 2:It just goes to show the importance, because my first boss I had as a newly qualified solicitor. One of the first things he told me I don't know whether I was going to court or going to do a prison visit. I was going to do something. And the first and he said to me Nadine, always act as if, so don't walk in there acting like the newly qualified solicitor who's just you know, just like your second day walking into court. Act as if, act to tell you whatever story you need to tell yourself. Act as if you are seasoned. You've been doing it for donkey years. You know what you're doing. You're the best thing that ever walked into the room and you, you have to. You have to tell yourself a different story. So you know we will deliver not I, elizabeth, will deliver acting as if you are this multi-starved company when you're jumping back on the bus. I think it's amazing.
Speaker 2:I feel like all of your, you know all of your tips, all of your advice in your book. I feel like you can apply it to any other industry, any other creative industry. That's that's why I honestly feel so what I'm asking? Two questions. What do you feel is the most common mistake that people make when they're building their business. Because instantly I was when I was thinking of these questions I was thinking I feel like people make the mistake. They they're so focused on the end product and getting enough likes and comments and followers. They're so focused on that bit that they forget about they don't pay as much attention to the actual building of their business. Yeah, I mean, that's my personal view, but I said, what do you think is the most common mistake?
Speaker 1:Not being customer focused enough, because the likes are great, the likes, the likes, the followers, all that is great, but how many of them actually buy your products? How many are proper paying clients? So you need to ask yourself that. So is it better to, um, have less followers and more paying clients? Absolutely, I'll take a paying client over followers any day, any day, especially if you're in the luxury industry, because you can have millions and millions and millions, and it happens as well. I know a couple of influencers that have millions and millions of followers, but they're not making any money, they're not getting deals, they're not getting those partnerships. So it's about your clients. So you need to be very, very client focused. So that's the first thing you need to realize. Okay, these are the type of clients that I want. Where am I going to find them? How am I going to get them to buy from me? What can I do to make them buy for me? Where do I need to go? Et cetera, et cetera. I address all that in my book. I literally give you the blueprint. This type of client you will find them here. This type of client, you can only get to them via gatekeepers. This type of client, this is where they hang out and this is what's important to them and this is how they buy and this is why they buy. That is important for people to know.
Speaker 1:I would would also say and I always come back to you as a person your mindset is also important. And I would also literally talk around pricing. Many people price wrong. The pricing is wrong. They either overprice or underprice, although underpricing tends to be the most common that I see. Um and they, because I tried there was seven or eight different types of pricing models. I used them all. I honestly all of them. I used them all until I arrived at a model that was perfect for me and it was based on value and it was based on delivering, exceeding your client's expectations.
Speaker 1:Then there's also something around, something around comparing yourself to your competitors too much, especially in the luxury arena, because a lot of people are like well, you know my competitors charging x, therefore I should charge x and I'm like no, um. The reason if people are saying they would rather buy from your competitor than you is because you're not differentiated enough that there might be thousands of you, but if you're all the same in the eyes of the client, then they'll go with someone who gives value for money. So those are things. So again, I keep saying this mindset, mindset, mindset is very, very important knowing yourself, knowing what you do.
Speaker 1:And another mistake sometimes is when people are too much in love with their product. Yes, you should be in love with your products and what you deliver, but do not be too much in love that you can't see the flaws, because, funnily enough, in luxury, your product must have enough flaws, is not really? Yeah, it's not about perfection. I now, when I say flaws, I this is what I mean. It should be definitely fit for purpose, it should definitely look pristine, elegant, whatever it is that you're doing, but there's a human touch that creates flow. So I'll give you an example in the old days when couture dresses would have very, very, very tiny minute spots of blood around the hem and to rich women, that was proof that this was made by hand- it's literally blood, sweat and tears, isn't it?
Speaker 1:exactly literally so. So that's what I mean. So I'm not saying your product must be awful, absolutely yeah, it's going to be beautifully made, well done, perfect, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah. But sometimes there is something about something being handmade that you can't replicate with a machine. That is the flaw. The Japanese art of kintsugi, for example, where if crockery breaks, they don't throw it away, it's patched up there. It's then lined with gold, yeah, so that creates a beauty. So that's the kind of flaw that I mean. So, because luxury is slightly different, so it's going to be fit for purpose. And also there's something around storytelling. A lot of people still don't tell the story of their brand or product beautifully. You've got to tell it in such a way that emotionally, somebody is moved from I can't afford this to. How can I afford this? What must I do to buy this? That's the emotion you want to create in people to buy from you.
Speaker 2:You know, I thought about and it's not. It's not high endend luxury at all, it's just ice cream. But Ben and Jerry's have a story. There is a story behind the ice cream exactly, and people may not be able to remember the favorite, you know type of ice cream they like, but they might say, okay, I know it's got some cookie dough in it. But they may be able to tell you about the story. And you're right, storytelling I mean storytelling is so important. People need to know where it came from, who you, who you are and how you fit in your story.
Speaker 1:I mean in.
Speaker 1:In my book I literally break it down the plot, the characterization uh the um, the, the individual characters, the mood that you're know, whatever it is you're trying to set. I break it down because it's like a movie, because when people write a movie or when you go watch a movie, you'd have seen a trailer, right, and the trailer would show you the best bits. So, and you mentioned earlier, for example, you mentioned Louis Vuitton and Gucci. And you mentioned earlier, for example, you mentioned Louis Vuitton and Gucci. So let's, let's use those two as examples.
Speaker 1:So have you ever read anywhere that Louis Vuitton walked barefoot when he was 13? He walked barefoot from his village to Paris, 300 miles. You've never seen, I've never heard that Exactly, exactly, that was so. He left when he was was 13. He arrived when he was about 15 and he got a job as an apprentice with a box maker, and this particular box maker made boxes for the elite of the day, and one of them was josephine, the wife of napoleon, and louis vuitton.
Speaker 1:Uh, while he was an apprentice, he made an observation that all the boxes had rounded tops. These are trunks in travel cases. They all had rounded tops and he thought why not make them flat so you can stack them Right? Simple, easy. And that's how he created the famous LV trunk. So that's his story. Then we dive into Gucci, gucci O'Gucci. Gucci O'Gucci left his village in Italy when he was 17, came all the way to London to work as a porter at the Savoy Hotel, and it was while he was handling luggage that he noticed that the luggage was very elegantly designed leather goods, and that gave him the idea to go back to Italy and create very elegant goods in leather, because his family had a leather tannery.
Speaker 2:They had a leather business, right?
Speaker 1:So, and he went back, he apprenticed with someone in Italy and then he opened his first shop. So these are the stories behind the brands. So what story of your brand are you telling? What story of your personal brand are you telling? Because people often think that, um, luxury brands just started luxury. They didn't. The people behind them didn't start luxury, but it was their mindset. This is why the luxury, but it was their mindset. This is why the mindset is powerful. It was a mindset of OK, I will create my own and, more importantly, I will change the rules slightly and I will look for the flaws. Right, remember the rounded tops? Yeah, I will look for the flaws and take advantage of those flaws for the flaws and take advantage of those flaws.
Speaker 2:And what would be your I say your number one tip to anyone starting out, regardless of whatever they choose to go into, whether they're going to be making hats or writing their first book, what would be your number one advice to them? Advice, I would say belief.
Speaker 1:You need to believe that you can do it. I was always um. There's this book uh, seven habits, highly effective people, um, and it says start with the end in mind. So you need to. If you have to create your vision board, or wherever it is, you need to create, um, put the book, your imaginary book, excuse me, business, create a vision board around that. This is the end. This is where I want to go, this is what I want to do. Put it dead center and then believe that you can do it. I cannot emphasize the power of belief, belief, belief.
Speaker 1:A couple of years ago, I had this mad, mad, mad idea of creating the diversity in luxury awards Now, and it wasn't just and I didn't just limit it to the UK. I wanted it to be global and I had no money, as you do, and I said, okay, I want to create these awards, and I was open to being laughed at, to be ridiculed. I didn't care and remember, I put the idea out there. I said this is what I want to do and this is my vision for it. And I went to. I then went to speak to a number of hotels for a collaboration Bear in mind, I had no, whatever. And one hotel said yes, and a couple of months before, they then changed their mind and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, I then found a bigger and better hotel and a couple of days ago, I did my second awards. The first one was in 2024. And so, yeah, it was in 2024. And a couple of days ago January 2025, I did my second one. Now why did I choose January? I chose January because everyone's depressed in January, so that will be a highlight.
Speaker 1:I decided to do it differently. It's not an evening awards, it's a lunchtime awards, so between 12 and three, so you can still go to work, come to the awards and go back to work if you want to. And also lunchtime. People don't drink as much, so I don't have to provide as much drink. So I just decided to do things differently and I did look at brands from all over the world, so it wasn't just the big brands.
Speaker 1:I had very small brands people had never heard of, because people wanted to know, people want to be educated, and I then approached a number of people to become judges. Nobody told me I was crazy. They all supported the vision, vision, and that is my point. Literally, I know this is things I've done from scratch, because, until you start, you know, even if people make fun of you, even if you're ridiculed, you need to have that belief that this is what I want to do. I just had this vision of a global community luxury that celebrates diversity of culture and diversity of products, diversity of ideas, of thought processes, craftsmanship, anything, even technology. We, we even have a category for technology diversity. You know of technology and so, and we found examples.
Speaker 2:This is the crazy thing it's all out there when you look, when you look outside your comfort zones and your circle, you'll find it exactly, and that that is the point, that this was way outside my, my comfort zone and circle.
Speaker 1:But I just thought to myself everyone in 2020 posted a black square and then nothing. And actually yeah, and then nothing. And I'm like you know what I'm? I'm, I'm going to do something, because if we don't do something about it, who's going to do something? So, for people who may have doubts or whatever doubts are natural fears are just do it regardless. It doesn't matter. You know, don't? Those fears shouldn't be stopping you. You should feel the fear anyway and still do it, yeah, did.
Speaker 2:Has your success surprised you, bearing in mind you know, you started off as as a microbiologist. You were going to do your ph. Well, you wanted to do your phd. You did your mba, you moved into headhunting, you had your cake side hustle and your cake side hustle led to high-end luxury clients. But not even that like consulting on movies. Even when I read like you consulted on my best friend's wedding, you're like, well, of course, like it makes sense, wedding cakes, it's a wedding film, of course, but did all that, so could it can lead on to how this one thing you know this one little, I say this one little thing that started off with your 40 quid in the bank and your secondhand mixer making so just making cakes morphs in, turns into your side hustle and morphs into this I say this global luxury business. Has your success surprised you?
Speaker 1:oh, absolutely absolutely I and I know it sounds weird I don't feel successful. I don't know people, I don't know. You know, maybe I'll yeah, I don't. I don't feel. I just feel it's something I do if that makes sense. Because for me, even as I was doing okay, a couple of days ago, even as that event was going on, I was thinking about next year. I'm thinking, okay, I need to get sponsorship, I need to get da, da da. I was thinking of the next thing. I was thinking of five years ahead, I was thinking of 10 years ahead. What you know, what can I put in place for blah? That's what I was thinking. People like oh my god, I'm sure you know you must be so proud. Like it sounds weird, I haven't got time to be proud.
Speaker 2:I was going to say that you took the words out of my mouth. You haven't got time to be proud right now. You've got to move on.
Speaker 1:I've got to move on because, people, you're only as good as your last event. You're only as good as what people remember of you. You know all this. You know not. God forbid if anything happens to me tomorrow and I die. Elizabeth, you did blah and that's it. You're a footnote in history, but at least I, I just wanted to make sure I left some sort of legacy. I just didn't post a black square, I actually followed through on my black square. That, for me, was very, very important to set the example to my niece and my nephews, um, to set the example to my niece and my nephews. So, yeah, so that to me, um is yeah, that is more important to me.
Speaker 2:I I think, yeah, I found the whole black square thing, um and if those who don't know what we're talking about back in, it would have been 2020, floyd, yeah, and a lot of industry, lots of different industries, um, were posting black squares in support and promising to do more in terms of diversity in their industries. And it was all very performative because nothing happened. They posted a black square and the next day they posted whatever their business, nothing happened. That's the point of it. So it was very, very performative and it is about actually doing something constructive, as opposed to just because anyone can just post something on social media.
Speaker 1:yeah, and also right now, what's happening. I mean, I heard that amazon they've reversed their policies around diversity, yeah, yeah, that. So a lot of because of the new incoming incumbent person, um iq45, as I call him um, I'm not even giving him a number.
Speaker 1:They are now reversing and we have a big social media platform literally saying we will not be employing fact checkers because we want freedom of speech and we know that people like us are going to be, that we're going to bear the brunt of the horrific, abusive behaviour. So yeah, so the black square, but at least I just want to make sure that in my industry, in my little capacity, in my little way, I try to do something yeah, all right, elizabeth, even I don't want to stop talking to you, but I'm aware of time.
Speaker 2:I'm going to ask you your last four questions. So are you an extrovert or introvert, or a hybrid of the two? I think hybrid.
Speaker 1:I started very much as an introvert. That's why I like my books and my research and my PhD. But then I've had to learn how to be a performative extrovert.
Speaker 2:Can I ask you a question? You know when you're doing your MBA, because I always say, especially to my baby lawyers when I'm training them there is nothing on the academic side, there is nothing there that actually prepares you for actually being a lawyer, and what I mean by that is actually interacting with people, learning how to, because you need to learn how to read people also, and there's nothing, there's not one textbook when you're in law school that teaches you how to read people, whether it's your clients, whether you're dealing with third parties, dealing with the judge. Nothing prepares you for that. So you need to learn how to read people. Was there anything in your MBA that taught you about having that interaction? No people.
Speaker 1:No, in fact, um, but the one thing the MBA did do for me. Obviously there was nothing about that at all, because case study, case study, case study. But, to be fair, my particular business school, every six weeks they used to take us um to off, off-site, and we stay in a hotel and we would have um, almost like um, these um, interactive sessions with classmates. They'll split us into groups, um, so there was, there was a tiny bit of that, but it wasn't based on kind of like real life scenario, it was more case study things. But at least they did something practical.
Speaker 1:But I would say that for me personally, it was learning how to network on my own, finding out events, taking my classmates to events. I mean, in my business school, for example, I discovered the marketing department. They used to have weekly events where they would bring alumni so chief execs and marketing directors, alumni they'll bring them back to talk to students, and it was. It was barely, it was barely attended, as in literally students barely attended. I couldn't believe it. So I just got all my MBA classmates. I went a couple of times, discovered it was legit, because I couldn't believe it was too good to be true, yeah, and then I then I brought all my MBA um people over and the lecturers loved me for that. I was like I can't believe the marketing department. You know the students didn't even value the opportunity.
Speaker 2:That would be like the number one thing you would do if you're marketing as well.
Speaker 1:I know, but to many students their number one was passing exams yeah, the number one was. So to them that was taking time away. And also, if you have a bunch of students who, culturally, um, we taught to network, you know, because some cultures it's about hierarchy and you just don't walk up to someone and say hi, my name's Elizabeth, so the networking thing doesn't come natural. But I think you've literally just given yourself a great idea to write a book. You literally described a book, um, about you know, teaching lawyers how to read clients yeah, because they don't.
Speaker 2:And I always say to them you know, the three days you spend with me doing the course, you're gonna not you.
Speaker 2:I say not boasting myself, but no, I'm gonna boast myself, you're gonna learn a lot more about being what it means to actually be a lawyer, like the practical side of being a lawyer, in these three days. Then you would have learned, yeah, studying law, because the act, you know, the academic side, the theory, doesn't prepare you? No, it doesn't. It doesn't okay. So what challenge or experience, good or bad, so it could be a good experience or bad experience what challenge or experience in your life shaped you the most?
Speaker 1:oh, oh, that's a good one. Um, oh, I think that a bereavement. Um, I went through a really horrid phase while I was in the lab and it was one of the reasons I stayed in that job for so long. Um, I had a divorce, a really nasty divorce, as well as a really nasty bereavement where I nearly died. I mean, if I wasn't a microbiologist I would have died of sepsis.
Speaker 1:I quickly realized the symptoms and I was trying to let the hospital know and they were shushing me. You know you're only saying this. You're bereaved, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah ravens of a mad woman. And I remember about two o'clock in the morning, because I know how the system works. Yeah, I then called the hospital where I worked. I called the hospital and I woke up my colleague in the in. You know she's a bit pissed off.
Speaker 1:I woke up my colleague to say this is Elizabeth. I'm dying If I die. This is why I, you know, can you please wake up Dr Hosell, who's our consultant, and let her know? This is a situation. And, of course, dr Hosell, she was amazing, very formidable woman. She then woke every consultant in that hospital up and said if she dies, I will personally sue you and I will bring you before the GMC. So luckily they then took action, realized they'd given me the wrong antibiotic that was even supposed to be prescribed in the first place, realized that my CRP levels were sky high, and then I quickly got treatment. So if they'd left it a few more hours I would have died. And I just thought to myself is this how? So once I'd be. And I think, once I recovered from all that when I realized that I can't stay. There's got to be more to my life than being a lab rat because I could have died. There's got to be more to my life than being a lab rat because I could have died.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, that that really shaped me, god and if you could go back to when you were 25 years old and give yourself one piece of advice, what would it be?
Speaker 1:oh, believe you, believe in yourself, be confident and just, you know your dreams are valid. Um, just enter those rooms. And it's really weird because I was showing my nephew one of my certificates, because I used to do a lot of courses. I was so curious. I remember doing computer programming. I did C, I did C. Yeah, I did C, I did C, I did C. Yeah, I did C. So and I was thinking, and I really remember wanting to get into that, yeah, you know, really become a computer programmer. But when I went to the class University of Westminster, when I went, I was the only girl in a class full of like 50 boys and they all knew each other and nobody spoke to me for weeks. So but yeah, and I remember thinking, wow, you know, I really wish I would have stuck with that. But yeah, 25, I would say go out there, elizabeth, explore, be curious. You know, go to rooms, don't be scared. I'd have done more, I'd have done a lot more, it's fun.
Speaker 2:I was just thinking back to when you were saying you know, when you're going to a lot of these rooms and you realize a lot of people around these tables, they're very mediocre and I think I feel like that was like my mantra last year, which is why this year I'm not even focusing on that leave, leave them. But I always feel, you know, you see, the mediocre just saw to the top and the mediocre are celebrated and it's outrageous.
Speaker 1:But I think me having that as like a bit of my mantra and seeing that in a way it gives you a little bit of fire and also, I think, to be fair, they might be mediocre on the job, but when it comes to ambition, when it comes to putting themselves out there, when it comes to even their personal branding and humans, you know, knowing how to read people.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Mediocre. That's how you get to the top. It's about knowing how to read people, making your boss look good. You don't even have to be competent. You don't even have to be competent. And it's exactly like you said about you know, being a lawyer. It's those three days with you will teach them more, because it's about human psychology, knowing how to reach people and what the people.
Speaker 2:Mediocre people, that's what they, because if you know they can't, you know, they know how to get to the top, but it's good to be in, it's good to be in those rooms and it's good to recognize those mediocre people. Because what it does? It puts the mirror up to you and it forces you to look at yourself and be like, hold on a second. Why am I sitting there feeling like Mr X over there is doing more, it's more capable than me, and the reality is this is who they really are. It forces you to look at yourself in a different way exactly, and it forces you also to put yourself out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because it's your fault. If you don't put yourself out there, it's your fault, it's not his fault. No, it all comes down to you. It's come down to you because he's doing, he's get um, he's the little he has, he's sweating his assets. Um, as a counselor say, he is using the little he has, he is making the most of the little he has. And you have a lot and you're not making the most of what you have. Yeah, or there are times you know you may not be seen, but you've got to make yourself be seen if you have some, you know, flashlights and billboards and and you have to ignore what's going on on someone else's instagram feed.
Speaker 2:You just need to focus on your focus on your race. Yeah, no, I I strongly believe that. I think we we spend so much time, we waste so much time and so much energy looking at what other people are doing, when we could be using putting that energy into whatever task we have taken on. Okay, so finally, elizabeth, where can listeners of the conversation find you online? Could you need to go online? Can you need to look at her cakes? Oh, and I have one more question to ask you after that. Okay, online.
Speaker 1:My place right now. I am on linkedin elizabeth salaru just find me on linkedin and every day I try to share lessons for businesses around luxury and etc. Etc. Um, so yeah, linkedin elizabeth salaru and my book, the luck spinner. You can get on amazon, amazoncom, amazoncouk and this is my last question.
Speaker 2:It's about cakes. What's your favorite cake? My favorite is red velvet. I'm not saying that because I want you to send me a cake. I'm just saying to anyone else out there because it's my birthday in two weeks' time, but anyway. But we're recording this in January, so my birthday will be gone, but red velvet is my favourite cake. What's your favourite cake?
Speaker 1:Ooh. Okay, don't tell the others but mine is a great lemon cake. I love a good lemon cake.
Speaker 2:Ooh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, lemon is a close favorite, yeah, and a really really good favorite, and a close favorite would be the vanilla filled with caramel cake.
Speaker 2:That we do because people yeah yeah, I'm telling the listeners of the conversation you need to just go on, elizabeth, I now know that yours is red velvet, so I'll bear that in mind. Yes, bear that in mind. So that just leaves me, Elizabeth Stolaru, to say thank you so much for being part of the conversation.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for having me, nadine. I can't believe that. You know we've had such an amazing time. Time has literally just flown.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for listening to today's conversation with Nadine Matheson. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. Be sure to tune in every Tuesday for a brand new episode featuring more amazing guests. Don't forget to like, subscribe and leave a review. It really helps the podcast grow and if you'd like to support the show, you can buy me a cup of coffee or sign up on Patreon. The links are in the show notes and if you'd love to join the conversation as a guest, feel free to send an email to theconversation at nadiemappersoncom. Thanks again for your support and I'll catch you next time.
