S03E20 - The Grudge

The Strangers are going to Japan! This week they brush up on their Japanese as they navigate the spooky happenings in Takashi Shimizu's 2004 American remake "The Grudge" starring Sarah Michelle Gellar, Clea Duvall, Bill Pullman and Jason Behr.

"The Grudge" is available to stream on The Roku Channel and SlingTV!

An American nurse living in Tokyo becomes exposed to a mysterious, vengeful supernatural curse—born from a brutal murder—that locks its victims in a state of rage before claiming their lives and spreading to the next unsuspecting person. 

#haunting #film #reviews #commentary #movies #strangersinthealps #satellite12 #moviepodcast #thegrudge #takashishimizu #sarahmichellegellar #cleaduvall #billpullman #japan

Follow all of our relevant links here: https://linktr.ee/satellite12

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:30

And welcome to another episode of Strangers in the Alps, a movie podcast. Where every week we discuss movies in an in-depth, scholarly above a word.

SPEAKER_05 0:42

That's a new word.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

My name is Dan.

SPEAKER_04 0:48

Travis.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

I'm being a butterfinger. Kayako. I could never pronounce it. Is that how it's pronounced?

SPEAKER_02 0:54

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Okay. That's Sam.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

It's like Kayak.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Oh, Kayak. Oh. Kayako. My name is Okay. And that's Frank, who told Sam how to pronounce Kayako.

unknown 1:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Which brings us to our special guest. Kayako. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Or Yoko.

unknown 1:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

I heard Yoko a couple times.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Because I found so, like, really Yoko? Like the most famous Japanese name ever.

SPEAKER_04 1:22

You should have, Dan, you should have done this. My name is.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Now I know why they broke up for real. So we are working in themes this season, and this theme, Sam, is subtitles. Really? Because mine didn't work. You have to turn it on.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Oh, okay, hold on. So let's see the theme is Strangers Go to Haunted Houses. Haunted Houses.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

You know, I do love me a good haunted house movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:48

Was this house haunted in this movie? Technically, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Was it just cursed? So that's our theme. Travis, as always, who's not ready, please read the back of the VHS tape that we all watched in 2008. I think I did watch this on VHS.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Am I missing subtitles?

SPEAKER_00 2:07

I couldn't find mine work on VHS. But they didn't default.

SPEAKER_04 2:10

You had to turn them on manually.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

No. I went to auto and they still didn't.

SPEAKER_04 2:14

No, you had to turn them on. Like auto, you had to go in the subtitle menu.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Okay, you did, right? Yeah. So you can tell me what the cop and the two cops were talking about in the hallway in the hospital. Because I completely just I just watched it. No, we'll get to it.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Oddly enough, that didn't have subtitles. Yeah. No, it was none of my stuff. I go in.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

And I thought at first I thought, well, that's interesting. It was a good thing. Like, what a fascinating decision. Great choice. I don't know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

And then that hallway seems like, no, there has to be subtitles.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

It's going on for way too long. Two minutes. I'm like, I'm missing a lot of stuff here.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

But let me tell you, sorry. Even with the subtitles, you're still missing a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_04 2:52

I'm going to say this too.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

I'm hoping for you guys to help me out here.

SPEAKER_04 2:55

It's literally all they said was you found out, oh my God, when they're talking about the thing, they were like, oh, does she know about three years ago with the murders? So you just that's it.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Okay. Read the back of the VHS tape and then tell us the movie. They don't even know what movie we watched.

SPEAKER_04 3:09

Yes, they do because they click the episode name. Thanks for spoiling it, Charlie.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Why do we even do this? Because it's fun. Okay, but you just Am I having fun?

SPEAKER_02 3:18

No. No, no.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

I have so much fun watching you get ready to do something. What if we were a ready to do?

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Like a shuffle play.

SPEAKER_04 3:27

Wow. This is really. They really they're really stressing something here. They're really stressing on some details. You're really choking on the screen. Hold on, it's not, it's not working.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Okay. The movie is Hold on.

SPEAKER_04 3:42

Because I could just find it. Karen Davis, an American nurse, moves to Tokyo and encounters a supernatural spirit who is venge who is vengeful and often possesses its victims. A series of horrifying and mysterious deaths start to occur with the spirit passing its curse onto each victim. Karen must now find a way to break the spell before she becomes its next victim. That's not the movie at all.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

I can do a drinking game with the word victim in that paragraph.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

And we'd all be so drunk we couldn't do the show.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

And we'd actually enjoy the movie. Victims.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Also, I'm curious about why. I'm curious about why it's it like specifically says often possesses its victims. Like sometimes it doesn't. Yeah, it's just it's a weird, like, like for a for a log line, it's a lot of information. And it's not like you don't have something to say too much. It's not a well-written description in the movie. It's bad.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

It was probably written in Japanese, then translated to English. Yeah, that's how the script was.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

He's been muttering this whole thing.

SPEAKER_04 4:50

Why not? I'm sitting here like this. Say it. Just say it. I was saying, and also why does it say it keeps passing its curse on its victims or she has to find a way? I was like, that's not what happens.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

So let me talk. Let's do our pre-thoughts and final thoughts right now. Let's stay on course here. Let's do pre-thoughts. I will start. I had heard of the movie, absolutely. I remember when the movie came out. Um I, of course, didn't go see it because I don't generally go to those kind of movies. And I don't remember actually knowing anybody who did see the movie. I don't remember having anyone like talking about it with an opinion about it. But I do remember when it came out. And uh and I remember that it I remember it was uh it it it did pretty well. At least I think when it opened, it did pretty well. Anyway, that's my pre-thought. I did not know what it was about.

SPEAKER_04 5:36

Mine is the opposite of Dan. I remember this movie coming out and I didn't see it in theaters, but I remember there was a lot of hype around it, and for me it was a I watched it because back in 2004 was still when I was doing the Friday, Saturday night blockbuster visits. And then we rented this one when it came out.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Nice.

SPEAKER_04 5:55

When you say we, mom, my family, my family, we rented it. We went, yeah, we we did Friday, Saturday night.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

How many times have you seen this?

SPEAKER_04 6:02

I saw Friday and Saturday? Well, Friday or Saturday. Oh, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Um I Daniel, like, geez. Overkill. I um I saw it once 20 years ago, and then I saw it again today. I mean yesterday.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

Yeah. Um, for me, I've heard of the movie, but it was sitting in time when I was really scared of stuff, so I refuse to even acknowledge it. And if it wasn't for this podcast, I don't think I'd watch it. At least I wouldn't watch it. Because you'd be afraid to watch it? No, because I would rather watch the original and then decide from there if I would want to watch the remake.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Very interesting. Okay. Let's let Frank do his pre-thoughts and then we can go on.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

No, I I think I'm good. Um good? I had to look this up because there were two instances where I went to the movies. Not again. Umly twice, and I've seen so much. Um I went to the movies two times uh as a like a teenager with my uh family, and I ended up watching a different movie from anybody everybody else because I didn't want to watch what they were watching.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Were you scared too? Because I think you said you were there were periodically.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

I watched Underworld Awakening. This was af this was um around the time that I was trying it was PG 13, so it was like I thought, oh, it'll be fine, right? My uh family wanted to go watch Shark Tale, and I was like, I don't want to see Shark Tale.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

Oh, so you saw this movie instead. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

I was like, I guess I'll watch this by myself.

SPEAKER_04 7:28

I thought it was the other way around. I thought they went to see this, and that's what I was like, what did you watch? Underworld Awakening or something?

SPEAKER_01 7:33

So um the other one was um it was Zodiac, and um they want to go watch like wild hogs or something. And I was like, I'm definitely not watching that one.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

You don't want to watch John Travolta on a hog?

SPEAKER_00 7:45

I'm okay. Um wasn't Zodiac basically a remake, not a remake, but uh the same story as Dirty Harry? No, Zodiac was about the Zodiac Killer, right? That's what Dirty Harry's about. Oh, but this is real. This is real. It was a fictional version of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Oh okay, go ahead. Uh yeah, I remember seeing the trailers and thinking, wow, that looks kind of scary.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Wait, so how did you how did you how were you in that? When you watch it by yourself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Uh that first jump scare got me for sure. But then as the movie went on, I feel like this was one of those movies that kind of like acclimated me to um horror movies because it was so early on. Like I remember when the ring came out two years before, right? 2002.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

2002.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

When that came out, I would never have watched that in theaters. I watched that at home with lights on, not watching the screen. 6 a.m. Yeah, and then like Texas Chainsaw. The most amount of time between day and night. Yeah, yeah, you can't leave.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

Yeah, sunrise, let's go.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Uh-huh. Um, but I remember from that to this going like, you know, from not being able to watch horror movies in theaters to going, you know what? I think I can do it. Oh, you know what? Now that I remember, Freddy versus Jason was 2003. Ooh, I see that. And I had already seen that, so I was kind of like going, okay, I think I can do this. Testing the water. Testing the water. Yeah, but from the trailers that I'd seen, the grudge looked like really serious, like seriously scary. Yeah. It didn't look like a kind of campy movie? Like a fun scary boxing fight. Yeah, no, it looked it looked like this'll fuck you up. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

There was like a fucked me up in different ways than it was.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

I will say this, it is not a fun, scary movie. No, it's not. It does not take itself lightly at all. It's dour.

SPEAKER_04 9:28

It's very around this one. Yes. But what I was gonna say. It's built off of the original.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

I was gonna say the hype was surrounding the original Japanese version.

SPEAKER_04 9:38

Was the 2019 version, was that a remake again or a CD?

SPEAKER_00 9:43

I tried to read about it and I couldn't get enough information on it.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

I remember watching it. I think it was just a restart, but like a different setting.

SPEAKER_04 9:49

Like a reboot. So I didn't do anything at all. Was that the movie? I couldn't I knew I can't remember it was Rings or the Grudge where the theater display had the actual hair. That's the grudge, the 2019 movie. Oh, that was the 2019 Grudge where it had like the weave on the poster.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

Yeah, I remember they put up they put that up in my theater, and I'm like, the way people are gonna play with it, and every single day a new hairstyle would just pop up on my poster. Braids.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Yum. So okay.

SPEAKER_04 10:20

Dan, set us up here.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Well, I I think, well, here, let me let me look at my my my initial notes. Yeah, Sam already set us up by putting the movie. Sam Raimi. This is what I wrote. Yeah, I thought Sam Raimi made the movie. He produced it. And I was so ready to go, all right, this might be cool. This might be a good one. That's right, hide yourself. And then I saw, no, he didn't break it.

SPEAKER_04 10:43

That's well, that was the thing. Like, you know.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

This would have been different if you're not. Here's my first note. I love when movies give you phrases of the front end explaining that. That's that now it has to become fact because that's how we're going to tell the story. And you know what? So you better read those three, four sentences in the beginning, or you're not gonna have any idea what's going on in the street. Sometimes it works. Honestly.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

Sometimes it works, but this one, right off the bat, I'm like, this is so cheesy.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Well, I just feel like they were just feeding me something just because this is just the way it is. Yeah, so you're gonna be able to do it. You're making this up, and you have to accept it.

SPEAKER_04 11:16

It's already horror movies, like, don't give me any more. The issue I had with it was, and this is go this is as the movie progressed, is those three or four lines that they tell you at the beginning is literally the revelation that the cop tells her. So I'm like, you're literally adding no new info to the backstory. It's like when a song says the title of the song. Yeah. Yeah, and and that was that was the thing. I was like, so when I first saw the explanation and the music, I didn't think it was using. I was like, okay, cool, we're kind of setting the mood here. I was like, okay, this is cool because around the time when this came out, I would have fully expected now watching it to have some like corn song. You know what I mean? It was very like the new metal hard rock songs.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

I don't see that, but I understand. No, I'm saying a lot of horror movies had that.

SPEAKER_04 12:12

So for me, I was like, oh, cool, we actually have a score and we had this little cool title sequence. I didn't mind it. I think it set up the mood kind of nicely for me, but I think it's because, spoiler, when I first saw this movie, it just did nothing for me. So I was going in already, like, okay, I'm not gonna enjoy this.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

I was gonna ask you, did you remember it at all from the last time you saw it?

SPEAKER_04 12:35

The only scene I remembered, but I had thought it was Sarah Michelle Geller. The only scene I remembered was the hospital and the apartment.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

I see.

SPEAKER_04 12:43

A little bit. But like I said, a lot of it, I had seen this movie like 20 years ago. I remember my sister and I watched it, and even then it was just like I hadn't thought about it since it didn't. But with that said, I was like, okay. And then I thought the opening with Bill Pullman, yes, it was kind of cheesy with him on the apartment. Lethal weapon, man. Yeah, brain screen.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

I'm gonna say though. Brainscreen the fuck out of that one.

SPEAKER_04 13:07

Oh, I think the one thing and why I was like slightly hopeful going in is I'll go over my issue. It's it's I have I like it, but I have issues with it with the cinematography. Like, I kind of liked the overall look of the film, and I liked like when we got like the establishing shots and stuff, like in Japan, like I thought that was kind of what I was like, okay, I'm kind of digging this mood, uh-huh. But then it got very stagnant, like I didn't get very fast. Because then when we started to get when we started to get to a lot of the interiors, I'm like, this looks really cheap. Like, I remember I don't remember if it was the sister's apartment or when she was at the office and it was supposed to be like she was on like the skyline, and when you looked outside the window, I was like, this looks like the logo to like Miramax, you know what I mean? Or like a late night show. I'm like, those buildings just look so fake, and then the apartment house very much looked like a sound stage.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Was this a studio funded movie? Yeah, it was Sony. Sony Columbia released it. Yeah. So when did studios stop funding movies like this? Like where they literally like produce them.

SPEAKER_04 14:20

What do you mean? I don't know. I think horror.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

I don't do it anymore. It's all it's always studio production companies, yeah, and then they distribute it. Yeah, when did studios actually stop produ like literally producing? I feel like it was around this time or uh right after the uh the PG 13 craze died, because after that it was um when when people started going back to like R-rated horror, um, unless it's like something like like say it, because that was you know, that was um that's an established that was that's a big that was established. All the other stuff, um, you know, like when when it was PG 13, it was easier for the studio to go, hey, we can fund this ourselves. It's PG 13, you know, you can get your four quadrants as much as you can of that, make as much money as you can, just make it really short. And um that was this was around the time that that started, that whole like, oh, you can just put a PG 13 movie.

SPEAKER_04 15:11

I think too, probably slightly, slightly because I think there was a couple different things that drove it. I think it was you had a lot of these like smaller per like production companies, like I think around this time is when you had Lionsgate coming out, and I think they partnered with a lot of other studios, but I want to say I think it's also the advent of like digital cameras because I feel like with then now, especially now, it's a lot cheaper for like these like for indie filmmakers. So I think now it's you know, I think a lot of unless it's a big IP, I think a lot of like big students aren't producing as much horror and they're just buying, is because it's way cheaper for them just to buy these movies and just distribute them. So I think it's a couple different things. And like you said, you had Lionsgate, then you had Plump House.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

You know what? Me too. Okay, it was a very good one.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

I'd like to move on. Let's move on. And then Dan, in the 2010s. I do think we need to really explain the plot. Yes. We have not done that. And that's it. I think you'd be the best. I will explain. No, I I don't mind Travis doing it, but I just want to say something before I do I think that's after watching the movie. Uh-huh. The first thing I did is I went to Wikipedia and I went to plot. Uh uh. If you read the Wikipedia plot, it's linear. It tells the story exactly in order of what happened. Chronologically, yeah. Chronologically. So when you read the Wikipedia one, you go, oh, okay, that's not the movie. The movie was not done like that. It is not chronological. It's very, it tries to be almost pulp fiction without the really clean storylines that are that end up on, you know. So I want to go off that a little bit and then I'll explain. You should probably if you can tell the problem. So let me do the plot. So plot lines.

SPEAKER_04 17:06

Please be simple. So what it is is Sarah Michelle Geller, she's an abroad student or nursing student. Yes. She she works at an agency, and essentially what happens is uh the normal caretaker uh doesn't show up. So she is now substituting the character. Yeah, dies when you're gonna get it. Something happens in the attic. She she gets some spirit or something takes her. So then Sarah Michelle Geller's character um fills in as a substitute because they're like, oh, it's an English-speaking house. Going, she goes in, she meets uh Susan's parents from Seinfeld. I know. I was I have that as my note. It was hilarious. So, and then she's very cold. You hear she has dementia, she doesn't speak, anything. She goes in to watch her, she they see a ghost. I gotta get out of here, ends up in the hospital, and then you start to figure out all these people that are going into the house, bad things happen to them. There's a little boy in there's a little boy Oh, because she finds the little boy.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Yes, and they're everybody finds the little boy, and they're like, What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_04 18:14

So I guess you find out this little boy had been.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

Well, you find all this stuff out at the end.

SPEAKER_04 18:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

If you read the internet, if you read the sum it up. If you read, it's so funny when you read the Wikipedia one, you are like you're reading a comp not. Not a different story, but you're reading like, oh, okay, this all makes sense. Because you're putting it in order.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Because it started with the family.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Why they decided, which is a big top of discussion for me, uh, to do the movie the way they did it, which I find baffling because I found it wildly confusing and exhausting, quite frankly, to figure out where am I, what's going on. But anyway, so to sum it up, it is right. You you you you had a horrible event happen in this house. Husband murders wife, kills child, and then hangs himself. Although later we find out that she hung him. But regardless, her spirit, but he hangs himself. She hung him? Well, that's in the hair the Wikipedia.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

Oh, that's how he found out. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

So yeah, honestly, I found so much reading that. Yeah. He's he hangs about. So the the idea in the story is that if something horrendous happens, the rage within it that becomes a it's almost like a pinnacle. It's contained. It's contained in this. So the house itself and the people in it, so if you go into that house and you face the eyes of this horror rage, you become obsessed and either you're consumed by that, or in Bill Pullman's case, he kills himself. Wow, yeah, yeah. You lit and you die. Yeah, you're gonna die. And you're gonna die.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

That didn't fester very well. No, no, it doesn't. No.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

It doesn't. It's a great like story.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

It's it's great lore. It's a great lore.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

You know why Sam some of that was told, presented in the and the journey they that they they that the director or whoever decided to do it this way made it really difficult to follow. Whereas if you just had done it in a chronological way, I think you would have gotten way more bang for your body.

SPEAKER_04 20:15

Because I think one of thank you, Dan, because that's what I was gonna do.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Anyway, that's because at the end, she she she tries to burn the house down. The house the fire department shows up, they save the house, they save her, and at the very end, there's this moment where she is still being haunted by this by the bird stuff.

SPEAKER_04 20:33

Wow. Um so classic moving. I think jump scare ending.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Oh, jump scare is all this movie had.

SPEAKER_04 20:42

And that's my big problem with it. Lucy termed jump scares is usually when you if you have a movie that takes place and it's jumping back and forth, is when you cut to a new scene, or when you go back, you have new information being found out, or you have a little cliffhanger, something.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

I have no objection.

SPEAKER_04 21:04

But you know, but but I'm saying yeah, but you know what the issue was with this one? It was so formulaic where it's like, okay, here's a character, they're gonna sense something, it's gonna there's gonna be a jump scare, and the screen's gonna fade to black, then it's gonna cut to the next person. Something's gonna happen, jump scare, fade to black. Where it just got so exhausting. Every time and and that's where I said where it got stagnant for me was because in the beginning, like I said, with the screen, I'm like, okay, this is cool. Like I like the mood it was setting, but then the mood just as the movie gone went on, it just got more boring and more boring, and it was so formulaic that I was literally saying, I'm like, okay, now there's gonna be a jump scare, now it's gonna cut to the next person. And then I'm like, you're getting no new information, like everything you explained, Dan, with the house and the evil, like, oh, the evil lives in there. That was in that like four lines. And sorry, I'm gonna stop because I'm gonna go through my whole tangent.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

I just it was just. I mean you said it the only scare that movie had was jump scare. Yeah. There was nothing else. And it was just boom. And it just led to a jump scare to a point where you just sat there going, okay, here comes a jump scare.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

And the jump scare right. The jump scare itself wasn't anything different than the last one. No, and they had every fucking boy.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

It had every cliche too. The phone ring. Which I've always kind of liked the phone ring jump scare. I do kind of always thought that was kind of a fun one. But then and you're right, every time it was a jump scare, blackout. I mean, it was like he he, the director, just he just didn't have a lot of different ideas about how they were like vignettes, basically. You know the house settled out of that. But out-of-order vignettes that at first I thought, okay, we're going backwards now. We're going backwards through the story. That's actually that's not actually what they were doing. They went backwards and then they went forward forward. And then backwards, too. And then at the end, when she's up in I mean, I don't want to jump to the end, but that's a big section I do want to talk about when we get to that point. Go ahead, Travis.

SPEAKER_04 23:03

No, I was gonna start talking about that. So Which Where they go to the attic?

SPEAKER_00 23:08

At the end, or when the cops get to the attic?

SPEAKER_03 23:10

Oh, I was gonna say when the cops get to the attic.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

We can I mean I mean you know what's you mean Japanese Colombo? Let's do it like the movie.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

Let's do it like the movie where we'll just jump around. Let's go. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 23:21

So I think we explain the plot if you don't know. That's the one jump scare that made me go, ooh, a little bit that I kind of like to do. When you see the couple in the corner? That no, but when you see I uh now I don't remember where this was, but where you find the caretaker and her like her mouth is missing.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

Oh, I love that. No, that's towards the end when Columbo was coming down the stairs.

SPEAKER_04 23:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

And he sees the boy first and he slips on blood.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

Why does he I'm gonna burn the house down because it's evil, there's things we see. Oh, look, there's something, I'm gonna go explore it.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Well, the whole movie, it would I have so many notes about we're just constantly walking into danger. Just walking right in. And that's what you do then? I can accept like the I can accept the first housekeeper doing it, but every single character knowing this place is freaking nut so is like, I'm gonna walk in the other side and see what's going on out there.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

My Quam going off of what Travis was saying, that whole part when the detective had that revelation on the top of the roof goes down and it's like, oh, I'm gonna burn this place down.

SPEAKER_05 24:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

And then immediately goes and then see um the boy and the mom, and it's like it's so quick that they don't give you time to register what happened. I mean, you don't need it, but like at the same time, why would he do it? Give us space, right?

SPEAKER_04 24:30

And and that's the thing, is like there's no and I think it's one of the problems in this movie, is it's like, okay, so it explains why Sarah Michelle or Geller, Sarah Michelle Geller's there's a few. Is because she, her, you know, her boy, her boyfriend. No chemistry between them at all.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Her brother Ever.

SPEAKER_04 24:49

It's it's it's it's it's it's discount Nathan Fillion.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

I think we also I mean, I don't want to get you off track, but let me just throw this in and keep going. Sarah Michelle Geller is cute, but she's I don't think she's good at the time. She's a pretty limited actress in terms of this kind of stuff. I've never seen her. I found her wildly uninteresting in this movie. Same. And I but I've seen in other things. I feel like it's it was more of a role than anything. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Yeah, well, that's Karen Davis, nurse. Yeah. That's literally it.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

I shouldn't be saying bad things about her because I haven't seen enough of her stuff. But she didn't bring any, she didn't add anything to the character.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Did you not watch Cruel Intentions? The show's in Cruel Intentions, right?

SPEAKER_04 25:33

Well, it's not even well, the problem is then it's I and I agree with Frank, it's not that she didn't add anything to the character. There's just nothing to add to. Oh, I'm here because I'm a nurse. My boyfriend got a job here, so I'm gonna go abroad. No, he's a waiter. He does. I gotta go over to Japan because he's a great restaurant. I gotta wait. No, he says the line, I helped them out with their financials or something. And then it shows him as like a waiter. So I think it's like, yeah. So that's the problem, is it establishes kind of why everyone's there in the setup, but there's no they're all boring. They're boring, and there's no depth at all into who they are, what they're doing there, what anyone's the cop is just like Columbo, like Dan said, his there. Um, there's no other than the boy just showing up.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

This boy wasn't interested in the book.

SPEAKER_04 26:24

Well, that's what I'm saying, is when I'm thinking about it, because we got antagonist in this entire film. Well, we don't there's nothing to lead up to, there's no final confrontation, there's nothing.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

But yeah, exactly. And and with each vignette, we go to the exact same place. Each vignette ends the exact essentially the same place. We don't learn anything more with each vignette in terms of what the thing is that we're, you know, that's that's attacking us, that's you know, causing all this all this sensational.

SPEAKER_04 27:00

Because the only revelation you get, and it just says it over and over, and it's why I don't understand why then the cop goes in the house at the end and does that, just burn it, is oh, this house is bad. If you go into this house, it's gonna attach itself to you and you're gonna die. Do not go in this house, you're gonna die. The cop, do not go in that house. There's evil attached to it. He walks in with the tank. Oh, I just heard something. Let me go explore. Yeah, exactly. Let me go investigate noise, though. Everybody doesn't know.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

My thing is, if you're gonna do that, if you're gonna go up in that attic, you hear stuff, okay. I hear something. Okay, I'll go upstairs. Oh, I hear something. Oh, it's not in the bedroom. I hear something, it's in the attic. I'm good. You know, I'm not going up the attic to find out what that is.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Um in the sister when she when she opens the door because she thought her brother was there. And she had the phone with her. And remember that whole growling came through the phone, and then she ran back into the house? Don't kiss the phone.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

That though I will say, the one there was a the whole scene with the sister, that whole sequence where she hears stuff, then she runs out, gets in the cab, goes. Um what what building does she? Oh, and then we went back to her apartment. No, what with the security guard? She's on the office building. She's in the office building. She goes to the 10th floor. She sees the thing in the in the hallway, goes to the security guard, stays in there, he's walking around, then she sees the thing appear in the hallway, and then she goes back to her apartment, and then her brother calls, and then immediately knocks on the door. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:26

That was good.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

That was good. Because that's the only that got me going, okay, this fucked up, man. I mean, like, I'm don't you fucking open that door.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Yeah. But at this point for me, so sorry, Travis. It was more of like, but what why are you attached to this?

SPEAKER_00 28:42

No idea. Because she wasn't. She was in the house. She was in the house. But at this point, I didn't really understand. And then I I agree with you. And I'm just gonna throw something out. I feel like I'm taking a huge left turn. Finish what you're gonna say, Travis. I'll try to remember.

SPEAKER_04 28:55

I was gonna say it's because that's the only scene with tension in the entire movie. Although there's something different than everything else we have. Exactly. So you're like, hey, this is something a little different.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

Everything else is in the house. I mean, you know, the thing on the train or the bus was cool when she looks in the window and appears in the window.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

Reflection.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Yeah, you're right. But it was still it was an attempt.

SPEAKER_04 29:15

Because you know what the sister's doing. It's like you know what she's trying to accomplish. It's her trying to get in contact with the with the two other people. Yeah, with the brother because she wants to see if mom's okay. Thank you. There's something there with the other characters, they don't have anything.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

Right, and I like I like that the voicemail was um revealed when Sarah Michelle Killer's character got to the house. No. Or whatever, and then it went back to her actually doing it.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

So this is not what I was gonna say, but I have to throw this in because we always joke about this.

SPEAKER_04 29:50

Thank God she went on the internet to find out that like, yeah, she was she went on that one website.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

It's either the library, yeah, the new old newspaper, and she printed it out. Or let's freaking go to the internet. And she printed it out. Yeah, and she printed it out for Clubhouse. And she had it all figured out within I mean real time. I think she was on there for what about 15 seconds.

SPEAKER_04 30:08

You know what she typed in?

SPEAKER_00 30:09

Kid gets killed in house.

SPEAKER_04 30:12

It's like, there it is, this house. It's like that's crazy. Didn't even type in the address of the house. Like just the kid gets killed in house. Oh, this is this is what happened. So here's my big Takes her to e-bombs away.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Here's my big question. A bin of watch. And I'm gonna confess this may just be me. So you might as be going, oh, you missed this. And what happened? Probably not, yeah. But I I I'm hoping that I did, because this is a biggie for me. Why does Sarah Michelle Geller go see all this stuff happening? Why is she seeing Bill Pullman? And why is she witnessing all this stuff? And the house. That's it. There is no reason all of a sudden why she has sixth sense going on. No, it's the house movie. Nothing that was in dialogue, nothing. Okay. Yeah, did you read the script? Did they skip that part in the script? No, but I mean, honestly, I thought, okay, I gotta pose this question because sometimes I'll ask these questions. Dan, did you fall asleep? You didn't. I couldn't figure this out. I actually watched the movie last night. Or actually watched it yesterday afternoon. And then hang on. Let me take that part. I watched the last 30, I watched the third act this afternoon. Gotcha. Because when I woke up this morning, I was so perplexed and bothered by the fact that I didn't understand why she could do that. That I said, okay, I'm just gonna watch the third act again. Because clearly I missed something. And I watched it again. I went, I don't see anything. I mean, it's not that it wasn't cool, but I would have loved to have known why.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Yeah just give me a reason. I think eventually you get what's going on, but at first it's like, wait, what? Oh no, no.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

I got it, but I didn't, I thought maybe there's a reason that she was able to see these things. Yeah. And why isn't she being possessed by this house? So we would understand. Why is she the one that's not turning into a maniac, dying in everything? And why did Bill Pullman? No, no. Everybody else got taken by it. Yeah. But Bill Pullman walked away and jumped off a building.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

Why didn't he main start of it?

SPEAKER_00 32:22

But that doesn't tell me why that happened.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

Because the wife Yeah, I under I know.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

So I'm thinking I'm we find all that out in that last scene. Yeah, so I think it's because he was the trigger for everything, so that's why he took it home. That's my thinking. I'm I'm I will accept someone to die. I will accept anything you say. Honestly.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

I'm also thinking he probably did it so that it wouldn't use him to get to his wife or girlfriend or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

He didn't have a line in this movie at all, did he? No, he did not. What an easy pay.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

The thing is, that's all cool. But it's not explained. He has one line in the entire movie. But there's nothing in this movie that I mean, nothing. There's very little explanation for the actions that take place, like particularly in the third act.

SPEAKER_04 33:10

Um you know why he kills himself? So they can have like an opening hook?

SPEAKER_00 33:15

So they can do lethal weapons. Yeah, I literally Do you know the opening of Lethal Weapon?

SPEAKER_04 33:18

Yes, it's with a wife, Mel Gibson's wife.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

No. No. The opening of Lethal Weapon is it is is is the credits are going, there's high rise and losses.

SPEAKER_04 33:34

And that's that that turns out to be Mel Gibson's wife. Oh, it's not? No, no. Oh my god. I always thought it was.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

No, it has it it ties back to the drug lord and all that stuff. Okay. And that's the opening sequence. So when he got on top of it, oh, we're doing lethal weapon with Bill Pullman.

SPEAKER_04 33:49

I almost expected though, because when he fell down.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

Imagine if this was literally just Lethal Weapon, but with a ghost.

SPEAKER_04 33:53

Yeah, because when he fell, when he fell and there was like no blood, I expected him to fall and go like acme. Like bounce back up.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

Wait, there was blood though.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Oh, later on. Oh, but there was no splash. No, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

PG 13, my guy. Ow. Ow. Um, the one part I did like was when the t the detective was looking the same surveillance footage that she saw. I did see. And that very end part. Oh, that guy comes up into the can. Yeah, and then the eyes. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

That was cool. I thought the I thought the use of the wife who'd now turned into this whatever we want to call her, a ghostly demon. I thought that was actually pretty cool. I thought the scene with Michelle uh Sarah Michelle Gelly and the and the old lady in the bed when it hair comes into the room.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

And you can well you can see the hair in the corner of the room like when it starts, and it looks creepy.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Yeah, I thought there were there were moments where you went, okay, this is money well. So there was potential. There were others.

SPEAKER_04 34:54

I think that's it, and that's what I said, like the first 20 minutes at most, it like I said, I was kind of hooked. And then the problem is though, well, not hooked, I mean, it just it intrigued. I'm trying to think. I'm gonna say that first 20. Sure. I think once Sarah Michelle Geller is at the hospital, maybe even a little before that, from then it just kind of nothing new gets added to the entire movie.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

Well, it it it gets it gets weird because after that it jumps to the the mum, the husband and wife buying uh renting the house with grandma. Oh we back up go there. So then you're kind of going, Oh, okay, we're trying to set up how all these different things happen, but then it kind of moves forward, then it kind of jumps around, and it's like do you think the real estate agent like works for the demon?

SPEAKER_04 35:44

He gets like, No, you cannot see this house, it's haunted. Remember the real estate agent when it's selling the house at the at the beginning to the company and he's like trying to like hide the water in the bathroom, and then they're like, We'll take it. And it's like, good. Yeah, we'll take it and keep that bathroom. Yeah, he knows it's haunted because he sees the boy in it. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, so you think he's like a slave or like he works for the demon? I'm just joking. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

So I post I posted this question in in to to these two.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Oh, thanks for including me. Of course.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

Um, what was the it was more of like, why did he remake this damn movie?

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Yeah, that's my question. So was the first one just this fantastic artistic the first one was Japanese, so that and then like and that was two years ago. It was a success, yeah. Yeah. Or was it considered like this really? Yeah, it became a big franchise. It was. It was considered a cool class.

SPEAKER_02 36:31

I didn't, I really wanted to. So there's this one and then the sequel.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Also in Japan. Yes. Well, but then basically his first like five efforts were just this movie. Exactly. Actually, wait, it's it's more than that because isn't it The Grudge versus the Current?

SPEAKER_02 36:46

Okay, so Oh I don't know, The Grudge versus the Ring, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:49

Is Alien in it?

SPEAKER_02 36:50

It's actually as the sequel, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

The Grudge versus The Ring versus Alien. So the Japanese um uh so the the Japanese series starts with two short films. Um they're called Thank you Katasumi and 4444444444. That's literally the name. I didn't know what that was and they're both real they're they're they're within the uh like the the canon of the series, but they're kind of like loose, and then the next two are they're called V Cinema, they're directed video movies, and they're called Jewan the Curse, yeah, and Jew on the Curse 2, and then after that, he made um two theatrical films before this remake, uh Jew on the Grudge and Jew on the Grudge 2, and then the year after two, he made this one, and then after that, he made The Grudge 2, the American ones.

SPEAKER_04 37:50

You're gonna need to get one of those pin boards and explain.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

Well, to quote Roger Ebert. Oh my god, I loved his quote. I love it. He said, He's just move on, man. Yeah. He did? Yes. Oh, wait. He first of all says, I was ex- said what I said, I was exhausted. Yeah. I guess confused. I just gave up. I it's so confused.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

My favorite quote of his was, I'm not sure how most of the scenes fit into the movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

Yeah. And I and I think he's right. Yeah, I agree. I'm not sure how much of the screen. Absolutely. I I would 100% agree with Travis. I think the movie, I think it has a you know, you Bill Pullman jumps off the thing. Okay, I'm I'm I'm interested. We go right to uh Yoko goes to the house with the old lady, she hears something, goes up, a horrible thing happens in the attic. Okay, I'm interested. You've given me two things. Now you got you introduced the so girl. She's told to go to that house, and we already know bad shit what happened in that house. So when she goes into the house, we're already like, okay, this is not a good place to be. So I'm I'm with the movie, but it just starts to it starts the onion starts to peel. Because it's the same as a right, and then you start realizing over and then you start going, wait a minute, what? What? And then I just I just it's the same. I found it just kind of exhausting and confusing, yeah. Honestly. I the approach.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

I also get my phone a lot, and I remember you texted me, you were like, I paused the movie and I still have 50 minutes. When you left. Yeah. And it's funny, it's it was funny because the three of us started watching at the same time without knowing.

SPEAKER_05 39:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:21

And then he was like, Yeah, I paused the movie and I'm at I'm still at 50 minutes left. Left. And then I paused my movie and I was at 48 minutes. I'm like, yeah, it's you feel it. Yeah, I just go where you really feel it.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

But you're about what, 30 five minutes into it? And that's when you really start realizing, oh no.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

And it's only an hour 38.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

It just really isn't gonna be.

SPEAKER_04 39:40

Like I said, yeah, and I'm getting repetitive, but it's just like a movie point. Like the jump scare. So when we edit this, are we just gonna do the pot are we gonna do the podcast out of order? Yes. Like just all of my one person slice things here and there.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

Isn't it odd though, that here's a film that was made in Japan. Obviously That is weird. Obviously, it's got it's got enough moxie and attention that Hollywood's like looking going, oh, we gotta make an American version of this. You know what I mean? There had to be enough where they go, yeah, hell yes.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

But you know what's weird to me? It's like, right, remake this movie.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

American Family. I wonder if he literally remade shot for shot. Gus Vincent did that. Psycho. No, I know, but did do we know if he shot for shot or something? I think it was.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

I think I read some of that. It's pretty much the same. But then, like, right, American Family in Japan, like, why didn't you just do a complete new setting?

SPEAKER_00 40:36

Yeah, because that's I think he shot it in Japan. Obviously, that's why he wanted to make the movie.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

But then, like, but he has the the original, and it was two years ago. So, what's the point?

SPEAKER_04 40:47

And you know what the big difference was? That in the original, it wasn't a uh a student studying abroad. It's just everyone was Japanese. Right. And then to be like, hey, we need someone they can relate to. We'll bring an abroad student that speaks English. There, Michelle Keller.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

No, wait a minute. Wow. Bill Pullman did have lines. He fucking Japanese.

SPEAKER_04 41:10

No, no, no, no, no. And then he had the one line where he goes, To the kid. No, it's when the it's like when someone gives him all those mail letters, all the letters, and he goes, Mom will be home soon. And he goes and he's and he says, Oh, I don't know who this person is. This person says they're they're a former student, but I don't remember her.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

That that reveal was was creepy though. I liked it when he put the photos and he realized Yoko, not Yoko, whatever her name is in the very end.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

The all the picture cut out of the pictures. We keep seeing the picture, but the faces cut out. I thought that was cool. Like, okay, this is gonna pay at some point. And then it did, and then the way it kind of edited and kept showing, showing, showing, showing, showing, and all the stuff with the flipping of the pages and everything.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

Yeah, I I mean I I was fine with all of that. Yeah, but if they stayed consistent with that vibe, I it would have been so much better.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

I think there's a way you could have made this movie in out of order, yeah, but but done it in a way where it worked and made sense. Absolutely. I mean, look, again, I hate to go back to pulp fiction, but that's obviously one of the more famous movies. There was different stories. Which actually wasn't even shot that way. That's that was an editing decision after afterwards. I mean that he and the edit you know decided, oh, let's do it like this. So they were able to make it, but it made sense. You were never lost in pulp fiction. That's really cool. Even though the end of the movie is actually kind of the beginning of the movie because we already know Samuel Jackson. But that's or that uh not Samuel Jackson, um that John Travolta's already been killed. But that and that's what that was really cool. So I do think there was a a there's I'm sure there was a way to do this to accomplish this.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

I'm not sure what it is. I wonder if it's a translation thing where the original was probably did it well and then this one didn't because they needed to cater to like an American audience.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

Yeah, do you think the producer stepped in and said, hey, let's dumb it down a little bit?

SPEAKER_01 43:05

Yeah. I think and then they dumbed it too down. Because I know the so that they dumbed it down so much we we can't figure it out. Yeah, I feel like the lore aspect is where it like you know the lore by reading it, but I I feel like a lot of it is so culturally significant to Japanese people that it's stuff that they just didn't bother explaining. But if you were Japanese, you would know, oh, that's what that is. Kind of like how, you know, um we would see like a certain type of ghost in, say, Mexico, and we would know what it is, but um, you know, like the weeping woman, like like yeah, like it's local folklore that you don't have to explain to a local audience. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 43:43

And and oh, sorry. No, no, no. I agree with Frank, is I think they very much kept this movie in Japan because of the cultural folklore of you know, the spirits and the house and that whole superstition. And I think it's not that they dumbed it down, I think the issue was. Is I think it couldn't been cool if they had the different timelines, but I think the issue is to go back to Pulp Fiction, every character in Pulp Fiction or every story has an arc in it. There's character growth, there's something. With this one, there's just nothing. Like I can I can tell you each each person's journey is Sarah Michelle Geller. She's like, hey, I'm watching after you. Um the the brother and sister is we just moved here, and she's like, I don't really like this place. Well, if you say you still don't like it, wife and husband. That's what I meant to say. Yeah. They have no world. The sister, it's I'm just gonna contact try to call them all the time. The cop, it's I'm trying to figure out what's going on here. This house is evil. People are dying. Whenever you last there's nothing interesting that that you know what I I think I know what you're getting at.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

I think the problem is that there's no progression. Yeah, they all just exist to go, I heard a noise, and then death.

SPEAKER_04 45:03

Exactly. It's it's kind of boy goes. Yeah, yeah. They don't accomplish anything. No, because there's no, there's, there's, there's no, there's nothing to justify. It's just the only reason they split it up is so they can say, hey, we have this character and they're gonna get scared, but we have to cut. How can we make this cut not look weird? Let's just cut to other people.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

You know what I think would have been fascinating? A way to like have progression and still have it be like a hey, I heard a noise and then I'm dead, is to weave the Karen character as integral to all these different other stories, yeah, and have her find maybe their progress as they tried to get rid of the curse. Right. I feel like that would have been a way of making things feel like there was movement, this is necessary to the story, instead of it all just being like these people were all in the same area and they died.

SPEAKER_04 45:51

Or even have it where if you're cutting back the road and you have these characters in the house, since, like it said, the house is like people are seeing things, even have it where the house almost appears different, the different people. You know what I mean? Yeah, have it look a little different. Each person, they're seeing different things, the house looks different, they're going through something when it's just like, oh yeah, there's a house, like something different.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

This is strange of the Alps, rewriting your movie.

SPEAKER_04 46:16

No, and I feel like I I don't disagree with you. Yeah, I feel like with all our haunted move house movies, this we always have like no, this this theme where we're tearing apart these movies. Oh, yeah, we don't normally do this, listeners. We we don't. Really?

SPEAKER_02 46:29

The one part that also that made me laugh. Um, we don't always all. It's me saying Michelle Geller meth when she was downstairs and then she saw the kid upstairs. It reminded me of Scary Movie.

SPEAKER_01 46:40

Oh yeah. Because Scary Movie.

SPEAKER_04 46:41

My name is Because Scary Movie did lift it.

unknown 46:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

Are you mansplaying Scary Movie right now? Are you really mansplating? No, let's do this right now. Are you mansplaying?

SPEAKER_04 46:51

Do you remember the scene? That little bit.

SPEAKER_02 46:52

That's exactly what I said. I said it reminded me of Scary Movie.

SPEAKER_04 46:55

Yeah, I was like, ugh.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

That little kid was scary though.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

Why? It was. He was. So the boy was drowned. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

That's how he didn't know.

SPEAKER_04 47:04

That's how she finds out that the kid, she looks up the work.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

That's how he says it. No, he was very good. The boy is drowned. Yes. The girl, the mom's neck was broken. That's why she goes, uh. She's left up in the right, up in the attic. He's left in the bathtub, and then he gets hung by her hair.

SPEAKER_05 47:22

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

So he wouldn't be haunting anybody. I'm trying to figure out why the boy is haunting us. What the boy's thing is. Outside just being weird and kind of creepy.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

Because he's also a vengeful ghost.

SPEAKER_04 47:34

Well, because that's the thing. Did you not read the quote? Well, thank you. Did you not read the quote? Did you have a quote? It's very, it's very it's it's seen visually where it's remember the mental in the movie. The kid sees the dad like strangling, break some. So it's him being like, We have video now. You're right. You're right, you're right. He gets all traumatized and scared. So that's why his spirit stays in the house.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:03

That's not that's what I'm saying. There's no like depth.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

Again, this goes back to the whole cultural thing. So the type of ghost that they are, they're a type of ghost called an onrio. And it's a it's a vengeful spirit or hateful spirit that um you know haunts like it can it's Does it move on? It's very specifically a spirit that can harm um people physically. It's like it's like a vengeful wraith. And so um that's what these two ghosts were, and I feel like if you were if you were Japanese, you would kind of get that because it's like local folk folklore. So there's no need there's no need to explain it, right? But Dan over here, spaghetti Dan, cowboy Dan over here, Banana Republic shopping Dan over here, Super Bowl Dan over here. Super Bowl Dan does not know that because he is not Japanese.

SPEAKER_02 49:05

Um I'm also gonna just say I'm Asian, I don't know that.

SPEAKER_01 49:09

Yeah, because you're you're from a different part of Asia. That's true.

SPEAKER_04 49:11

And I was gonna say, you can't just rely on that, like you have to have something else. You know, you can't rely on that.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

You can't rely that anybody Especially if you're gonna make an American version.

SPEAKER_02 49:21

No, when you come back with any of that lore the original Juan, no. Yes, and the sequel, and we're watching Grudge 2. And then all those the short stories that you have on it.

SPEAKER_04 49:32

Oh, you have two, you have a long plane ride, Dan.

SPEAKER_01 49:34

I didn't even tell you guys. Uh boy. So after The Grudge and The Grudge 2 in 2009, they came out with uh uh 10th anniversary films, but it's two. They came out with two films in the same year, Juwan Black Ghost and Juan White Ghost. They're both 60 minutes. That's well being fair. They're both 60 minutes and it's seven vignettes out of order. Because apparently nonlinear storytelling is like a staple of the series.

SPEAKER_02 50:01

Oh, so it's the it's the known thing.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

Clearly, it it's working for for them in Japanese, it's just not working for us in English. Dan, so but the movie actually did well, maybe like 180 million.

SPEAKER_02 50:17

It's the PG 13 aspect of it.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

Yeah, it's also I don't think people cared about that. They just wanted to get some jump scares. And also around that time.

SPEAKER_02 50:25

Around that time, like all the J-Horrors being remade because he got the ring, the grudge.

SPEAKER_04 50:29

And this was before streaming and everything, and theater attendance was pretty high. I'm sure it was rocking back in then. So Dan, so when you come back from Scotland, you're gonna bring the Loch Ness monster with me. Oh, I was just gonna say we're gonna cover the movie Highlander, and you're gonna tell us all the inaccuracies. I'll be happy to. While wearing your kilt. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

We are going to Loch Ness, by the way. Really? For real, for real. Yeah. That's one of the things on our to-do list. You're gonna make a found footage movie.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

Loch Ness? That's not that's not an axe.

SPEAKER_02 51:02

Yeah, good job. Good job. Thank you. All right, everyone.

SPEAKER_01 51:04

Hootman.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

So what is all I can say?

SPEAKER_02 51:06

Oh, the one, hold on. The one part in the when she was like looking at all the like the past with Bill Bill Pullman. Pullman? And then at one point they touched Interstellar.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:20

Don't go. Stay. I have a question. Actually, go. Please leave now.

SPEAKER_00 51:26

Please leave. Stay. Stay. I have a question. You have a lot of questions. Where are we in 2004 in Bill Pullman's acting career? I don't think this is. This is not a big role. This was not a big budget movie. I was surprised he would. The dude did Independence Day, what, like 96. So now we're eight years later and he's playing a secondary character in a relatively low budget horror movie.

SPEAKER_04 51:55

He probably just got a quick. I'm sure he was only there for like a day or two.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

But I'm literally just I'm asking, where are we in his career? I don't know. In terms of like, is this like this is what he's doing now? In other words, where he had where if he's a few years.

SPEAKER_04 52:08

I don't think he was doing as I don't think he was doing as much.

SPEAKER_02 52:11

Was he in Freaky Friday? Am I wrong?

SPEAKER_00 52:12

No, he was not in the first time. Well, I'm just wondering why you're being judgy. Oh, I know. I'm just curious because I I found it interesting. When I saw he was in the movie, and he in the credits, he was and Bill Pullman. So he was the very last credit, so I knew right away he wasn't gonna have a major role. But I think he was arguably um uh as big or a bigger name than anybody else in the movie. I mean, Sarah Michelle Geller obviously had the TV series. So she was known. But he was he was a relatively successful.

SPEAKER_04 52:46

He did Wyatt Earp in '94, and then he did The Guilty in 2000, then he did The Grudge in 2004. Then I totally forgot. He reprised this role in a parody of it, Scary Movie 4. Oh, did he? No, but he played a different character, sorry. Oh and then I don't know, other than that, it looks like he did The Newsies, a movie adaptation of it. Yep. He did The League of Their Own. Um, he was doing things, Lake Placid. I think it was pretty Oh, he did Sleepless, but this is all 90s. I think he was still doing things. He was doing a lot of indie stuff.

SPEAKER_01 53:20

Supporting, I think just going by just going by his like um his filmography, like the last big, big thing he did that um, I mean relatively big thing would have been um either 1999 spy games or 2000s Titan AE after that.

SPEAKER_04 53:37

But that was a bomb.

SPEAKER_01 53:38

I know, but it was so good. Yeah. After that, though, it's it's mostly like independent film that I've honestly never heard of.

SPEAKER_00 53:49

Yeah. Yeah, a lot of this stuff is oh, I mean I mean he never really he was never what I would call a real A-lister. No, but was he? I mean, I think Independence Day was a that was a big, gigantic movie that he was a really good actor. That he was playing, you know, with a lot of other actors that were also playing roles equal to his role. I don't know if he would even call the lead in that movie, honestly.

SPEAKER_04 54:16

Was he maybe doing theater or something? Might have anything? That's very possible.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

That's probably he's a good actor. I'm not saying anything.

SPEAKER_04 54:22

No, I'm just saying he was probably oh, I forget he was Well, he did a film like almost every year.

SPEAKER_01 54:27

It's just that, like I said, most of them you've never really heard of. Right. Up until he uh came back to like big movies with uh Equalizer 2014. Right.

SPEAKER_00 54:40

And then he had some bigger stuff, and a pencil. But even like news, he had a big role in that. And that was a big Disney movie.

SPEAKER_04 54:46

It just wasn't a big That was Christian Bale was in that. Yeah, in a League of Their Own, I wouldn't say, oh yeah, Bill Pullman, he was great, and that it's like he's in it.

SPEAKER_00 54:56

He had a very sexy very secondary role. And Hanks had a almost a secondary role in that.

SPEAKER_04 55:02

So final thoughts. Sure. I'll go first. Great. Okay. Okay. Um, I think we all know how I feel about this movie. You love it. I'm gonna give it four. No, I'm gonna give it four and I'm gonna give it two. That's still high. I'm I know. I'm gonna give it just because of the beginning. I like the first I'm gonna give it two. What's going on? Looking at spilled like ramen cups. What's going on here? Out of five. What a mess. What a mess. Come on, ghost, clean up after yourself. Yeah, out of five.

SPEAKER_02 55:32

You know what? I wish they would explain. And when she got to the house, she kept or the the first housekeeper, she would like, or caretaker, she would pick up all these like newspaper stuff. And it kinda you can kind of pick up, right, because they just had moved in and like ghosts and all that stuff. I wish they would kind of talk more about it, or at least show more the the connection between like all of those, you know.

SPEAKER_04 55:53

But you know what, now you're saying that. I'm like, obviously, I think that we had to have known that the caretaker kind of knew what was going on and it was because I think about it, I was like, wait a minute, why was one piece of the house taped up?

SPEAKER_02 56:04

I think that's the m the grandma. I mean that's the mom doing it. Oh, I thought it was uh they taped the kid inside the Yeah, but then the care the first caretaker didn't have the tape.

SPEAKER_00 56:15

Yeah, I don't know when the thing got taped up, but I just know that Sarah Michelle Geller tore it all off. And that's you know, it was the mom's fault. Who does that?

SPEAKER_02 56:23

Yeah, because she she had the tape in her hand. That's right, she cut herself.

SPEAKER_00 56:27

Yeah. Oh, who does that? I think, you know.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

Wait a second.

SPEAKER_04 56:33

We're piecing it together now.

SPEAKER_01 56:35

How how could she have taped it and then the care the the caregiver went and it wasn't taped? Was it? I think she taped it.

SPEAKER_02 56:47

I think she taped it after the caretaker went away. But she was holding it when you're gonna go. No, maybe even then that's a time jump. Maybe it's a part she missed.

SPEAKER_01 56:56

Unless she keeps doing it, in which case exhausting.

SPEAKER_02 57:00

I can't talk about this anymore.

SPEAKER_00 57:02

I agree with Roger Ebert. It's just too confusing.

SPEAKER_02 57:06

Do you wanna go? Sure.

SPEAKER_00 57:07

Um, I have nothing else to say. I think we've said everything there is to say about it. Um I I I guess for all of its faults in terms of just being kind of confusing and the way that it kind of jumped around with time. You also have to be really I was very disappointed in the lack of invention of trying to scare me.

SPEAKER_04 57:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:31

I mean, honestly, I I just want to say the director, really, dude, jump scare? That's all you've got in your bag of tricks. You've done four of these before. My goodness, that was that was exhausting. Um, so I will give it a very generous 1.7 scary female long-haired dead girls. I said female already, out of five.

SPEAKER_02 57:56

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 57:57

I didn't think that was cool. I did like that.

SPEAKER_02 57:59

Yeah. I'll go. I yeah, everything I've said, I've said. Say what you mean to say. I just there's no chemistry. The scarists weren't scary, repetitive. Um I wish I did like the last ten minutes when the reveal happened, but like if they had uh made the whole entire movie that same mystery, right, it would have been at least a bit better. Um so for me, I'm gonna give it 1.8 severed jaws out of five.

unknown 58:28

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 58:29

Oh, that was a pretty cool one. I did like the severed jaw. I did like that.

SPEAKER_00 58:34

Wow. Frank, it's all you now. I know. I hated this movement.

SPEAKER_04 58:41

I'm gonna give it four.

SPEAKER_01 58:42

That's you. Close. I three point five. I I went into it expect like thinking, oh, this will be fun, because I hadn't seen it in forever, probably since since theaters, to be honest. Um and uh I walked away thinking, okay, well, it's not as bad as I it could have been, you know. Like I often have that experience where if I see after watching something and then re-watching it for the podcast, I and tend to like not like it as much. So um it wasn't bad.

SPEAKER_00 59:18

Can I just jump in? How did you feel about it now when you saw it 20 years ago? What was your I thought it was okay. What was your memory of it? Like, oh, that really scared me.

SPEAKER_01 59:27

I thought it was scary because it was loud with its jump scares, but I I don't ever remember thinking, oh, that's great or that's good. Just in that movie. Well, I saw it. It was scary.

SPEAKER_02 59:38

That was a movie. That was a movie.

SPEAKER_01 59:40

Um but um I don't know if it's a nostalgia factor, but I I still ended up enjoying the rewatch. Um that doesn't help the fact that not a lot happens that matters. Uh, but it's got some really good jump scares in it. Like not oh sorry, not jump scares, but it's got some really good moments of tension, like the scene with uh the uh sister at the at the office building. Um even like the first um time that they find um uh uh what's his name? Is it Toshiya? The first time they find him. Yeah, that's I'm pretty sure that's who it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:23

Yeah. You want to say it one more time?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:25

Yeah, I don't I didn't hear it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

One more time.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:27

Tatiya! There we go.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:29

It just doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:31

If there's no video of Asian. It just doesn't matter. Thank you. Um and then the the the final time that uh Kayako. Oh, you know what? Okay, there's two actually.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:43

That's not how you say. One more time. Kayaku Kayako.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:46

Kayak-oh, Kayaka. Um when she comes down the stairs at the end when Karen's there with her dumb, like, useless boyfriend. Yeah. Who has like no personality? Yeah. Um that was cool. And honestly, he felt more like a poor man's Adrian Grenier.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:03

That's what I was seeing. Is that the guy in uh Devil Wars Prime?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:06

Devil's Wars probably, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:07

With the eyebrows.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:08

It's the hair. Yeah. Um he had cool hair. One other thing though, I didn't think it was kind of it was really creepy when um going back to the sister at the office where she gets her keys caught when she has the door open. Oh. And then like she falls and she looks, and it's like the this face?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:27

The yeah. Or the one she was in bed.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:30

And then when she when she what was it? It I think it was the same scene, right? Where like she like backs up into an open door and like turns around and it's like the head.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:42

I'm not gonna lie to you. I think I was looking at my phone at that point.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:45

It was a creepy moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

I was like, that whole sequence was probably one of the best sequences in the movie, honestly. That should have been the movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:53

Just that, the short?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:55

Yeah. That probably is one of the shorts.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:57

Probably. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:58

I I don't think the nonlinear storytelling was unnecessary. I just don't think it was executed well. Nothing. Um I agree. It just just they just didn't execute it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:11

Cool idea. Just work on it more.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:12

Yeah. And you know what? Again, maybe the original does it better. Yeah. And there's just we'll never know. Well, I mean, surprise.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:20

All you gotta do is push play.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:21

We're actually I haven't done that. I have it ready in the next room. Okay, cool. Um uh with that room's evil. I'm not going in that room. With that said, I'm gonna give this movie. Oh boy.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:34

Here we go.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:34

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:35

Hold on to your hold on. Oh boy. I don't want to fall over. No. It's gonna be a three-seven.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

Three out of five. That's not bad. I told you. I was two seven. You were open ramen ramens in uh three, two.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:52

No, I was a two point five. I was a two. You were I was a two. Oh, I was oh I was a one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:58

You'll always make fun of me, but he always reached these movies high. And you guys never say anything.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:03

He had like a better excuse.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:05

I think enjoying it is for me is separate from scoring it. In other words, uh, I wasn't really bored. I was like more confused. Yeah. Honestly.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:16

I saw so much potential afterwards. But could have been. No, there's only been a handful of movies that we've covered where I was like flat out bored out of my mind. Like I was like struggling. Christmas Evil. I don't know. That brother of the Wolf was that was brutal. Honestly. That was brutal. I still bring it up. I'm not sure how many times I stopped and went back to it. It's so good, I don't know what's going on, but it's so good. I'm not sure how many times I actually had to pause it, go do something else, come back and start it. And I kept going, really, there's another hour. Is it someone watching it in their car on the way here?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:50

But whether it's you watching it in your car.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:54

I think it I think it was what I think every time I hit like a stoplight or something, you see him watching it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:01

He's out in the front of the house for like 15 minutes. Hang on, guys. Hang on.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:05

Come to a- Literally, I think I watched the last like five minutes outside the outside before I walked in.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:11

Frank, your your car was like, come to a stop the resume video.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:15

There's nothing that you love more funny or revealing as Christmas Evil when after the podcast was done, Travis says to me, I must have fallen asleep because you guys were talking about stuff. I don't remember having it all.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:30

You guys were talking about him going through a murder spree. I was like, didn't he only kill one person? Yeah, because you look so confused. I was so confused.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:41

No, he killed a bunch of people.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:42

You guys were talking about him at like Town Square and like all the. I was like, what? When did that happen? He was like that meme of that woman doing math. I really remember sitting there on a chair watching it, and then looking, so it must have just been like asleep.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:57

Let's end this on a positive note. What was that movie with the girls all go to the cave on the hike? The Descent. The Descent.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:02

That was a good movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:04

Wait, what are what are they remaking? Not The Descent. What are they remaking?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:08

The Descent.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:08

The Descent.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:10

Oh no, they're remaking Grave Encounters with Justin Long.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:13

Never mind. Oh, okay. Well, this has been fun. Please like us, share us, review us, subscribe. Subscribe. And also on Instagram. Get on our YouTube channel.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:24

If you liked us talking about this movie, just know that uh the wife in this movie was from our previous episode, The Faculty.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:33

Yeah, oh, I had that as a note. I had that as a note, and I forgot to bring it up. I saw her going. I don't know why. I paused it. I looked her up. Oh, back to the play it too full. Oh, play it. She's good. A lot more to do. She had nothing to do in this movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:46

Well, see you later. She just died. Okay, Dan. That's insensitive. Alright, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:51

Well, if anybody's interested, I have the next movie. Oh, what is it?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:54

I am so interested.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:56

It'll be I'm interested. Okay, so Scottish, go. It's our last haunted house.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:02

That's all I got.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:03

Um, it is our last of the haunted house series. I feel like we've done like 56 haunted house movies. I know. It's been a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:09

This is the last one. Every time. And I feel like we'll like it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:13

We'll like this house. We'll like this cabin.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:16

In the middle of the street.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:18

That's in the woods. Oh. We're watching.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:21

Oh no. The Strangers.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:23

No, I'm kidding. We're watching the cabin in the woods.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:25

I'm gonna tell you this, Dan. Have you seen it? I have to tell you this right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:29

But I'm actually interested in seeing it for sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:32

I'm serious when I say this, Dan. Do not look up the movie and do not watch the trailer ahead of time.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:40

I never do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:41

From the series of the street.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:42

So why do you keep saying it like I'm going to do it?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:45

You've done that sometimes. Sometimes you say you look up the movies and you read about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:49

I feel like you do that after.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:50

Oh, I I thought one time you said you look it up beforehand. Okay, never mind.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:54

There was a movie I did something ahead of time. Because you were just confused. I think it was because I want to make sure I was watching the right movie. Yes. Not like the one. What was the movie where I was watching with a countryside? I'm like 15 minutes to the movie, and I'm like going, This is cannot be the movie. Oh shit. It had the same title, though. Yeah, yeah. It was the same title.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:12

I can look it up. Look up previous.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:15

It was it had the same. Is it recent? You too. You were the first. It was like this English movie where they're like out in the middle of the country.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:24

Oh, it's the host. You were host.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:27

It was host. Yeah. I was like, this can't be right. This isn't found footage.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:32

You said it wasn't good at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:34

I got like ten minutes into it. There were old. It was really interesting. I'll never get back.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:38

Old old yeller. Old Yeller was running around.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:41

It was so strange. Okay. Anyway, this has been another wonderful episode of Strangers in the Alps, a movie podcast. I'm Dan. Travis.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:53

Uh Sam.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:54

Oh I gotta take my old man pills. And that's an alarm.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:58

Is it the blue pill again? Yeah, repeat.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:00

No, you should open your mouth and then the alarm just comes.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:02

And that's Frank.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:03

And we are Scottish.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:07

Out of the house.