Navigating the Intricacies of the Nervous System: A Journey of Transformation and Rewilding

Join Gazit Chaya Nkosi and Peter Michael Dedes on a profound exploration of the nervous system and its impact on our daily lives. In this insightful conversation, we will delve into the fascinating world of nervous system regulation, co-regulation, and rewilding.

We will discuss the concept of neuroceptive mismatches and their prevalence in modern society, shedding light on how chronic stress and trauma can disrupt our nervous system's ability to accurately assess threats. 

Using the lens of polyvagal theory and the Safe and Sound Protocol, we will uncover the transformative power of ancient practices and modern techniques in restoring balance and resilience.

Our journey will take us through the essential role of mindfulness, breathwork, yoga, and other practices in regulating the autonomic nervous system, promoting greater serotonin release, and cultivating awareness of body signals. 

We will emphasize the importance of consistency and integration of these techniques into daily routines for profound nervous system health.

Furthermore, we will explore the vital role of social support and connection in co-regulation and nervous system regulation. We will highlight the significance of open communication and mutual respect in fostering supportive relationships. 

Through personal experiences and reflections, we will uncover the transformative potential of modalities like the Safe and Sound Protocol in reshaping our relationship with our nervous system and enhancing our capacity for connection and authenticity.

You can connect with Gazit Chaya Nkosi here: https://www.anexperiencer.com/

Transcript

PMD: 0:27

Today, we have the pleasure of delving into the depths of consciousness with a remarkable individual who embodies resilience, transformation, and the pursuit of wisdom. My guest, Gazit Chay Nkosi, affectionately known as Z, is a seeker, mystic, and advocate for radical self acceptance. Z's journey from victimhood to creation is an inspiring testament to the power of personal evolution. and navigates the intricacies of identity with grace and authenticity. Through challenges such as persistent post concussive syndrome and PTSD, Zee has emerged as a beacon of hope, embracing modalities ranging from dialectical behavioral therapy to the safe and sound protocol. Zee's commitment to radical acceptance and absolute innocence permeates her coaching practice guiding others towards liberation and suffering. In this episode, we'll explore Z's insights on navigating life's challenges, harnessing the wisdom of the nervous system and cultivating deep connections in a world often devoid of authenticity. Gazit Chaya welcome to the Transcendent Minds podcast. I'm really thrilled to have you here today.

GCN: 1:49

Oh, my word that introduction is maybe one of the favorite things that has ever happened to me. Oh, my word I just want to like, soak in that for that was gorgeous. Thank you.

PMD: 2:05

I like to do a lot of research and I think that as a unique soul with a unique essence, it's important to characterize, and embody the essence of who you are and what you are unto itself.

GCN: 2:21

Wow. You are clearly gifted in that and I feel extremely honored to have been the recipient of all of that love and attention and research. Thank you truly.

PMD: 2:32

From what I've gleaned is that your journey from victimhood to creation is truly inspiring and I'm really eager to delve into the depths of your experiences and your insights. Can you give us a brief overview of your journey and experiences that have led you to your current role as a coach and SSP provider?

GCN: 2:53

Yeah. So I would say it's very windy and there's lots and lots of pieces. But I would say one of the primary pieces is that I spent the first 35 years of my life feeling really hopeless and like life was not worth living. I could not crack the code, so to speak. I felt like I was just hitting my head against a wall repeatedly, I tried so hard to be a good person in the ways that I was taught that would define me as good. And I kept failing and I kept receiving feedback from everyone around me that I was not only not doing a good job, I was making their lives worse. And this was devastating to me because all I wanted to was to be a blessing, not a problem. And through the grace of some sort of divine intervention, I was given many chances and many opportunities to learn and receive resources that allowed me slowly but surely to understand that there were some basic skills that I could practice every day that would allow me to create a life worth living and to actually be at this phase right now where I am receiving feedback that I am being a blessing to other people's lives. It just sounded so impossible and to be living in that impossibility is something that I really care about giving other people. They can know that there is hope for developing a life worth living and not just one that's worth living, but one where you can actually contribute to others, which I think all of us really desire in our heart of hearts.

PMD: 4:44

You've really embraced this idea of radical acceptance, which I find truly inspiring when people mentioned being self-conscious. I often like to shift the perspective to focus on being aware of oneself, rather than feeling self-conscious so feel conscious of self. So the latter tends to stem from an imbalance externally and a lack of inner stability. When you cultivate a mindset where you're consciously present and accepting of yourself, it not only brings inner peace or an inner stability, but also creates a sense of balance in both your inner and outer worlds. How has your experience with persistent post-concussive syndrome and PTSD shaped your perspective on resilience and healing?

GCN: 5:39

Yeah, I love that you ask about that because I don't often get to talk about the traumatic brain injury piece but it's so instrumental in my experience of being on this planet because my first traumatic brain injury was when I was 15 months old and then I had a second one two weeks later, both where I fractured my skull, lost consciousness had seizure activity. So they were traumatic brain injuries. They were not just concussions. And then when I was three years old, so about a year and a half later, I had my third one. So what I have is a pretty unique experience of being post TBI basically my entire life. There's nothing that I can remember pre TBI. So you have a lot of people who have have survived brain injury, and they have this grief and this longing to get back to their pre brain injury identity. And my whole experience has been shaped by brain injury. There are words that we hear a lot of right now, like neurodivergency and any type of, neurocreativity, all these different experiences that people have, whether they call it autism or ADHD or what have you and for me, I've had those characteristics of neurodiversity my whole life. We can't really know for sure if that's all brain injury, if I was like, came out a little neuro spicy, as I heard it recently, and then the brain injuries just solidified it. When I was little, they weren't talking about any of this, so it was like, oh, you're just super sensitive. Oh, you're so weak. You have no stamina. I would fall apart at the seams if I didn't eat, but I didn't want to eat. I was fainting. I cried all of the time. I couldn't do loud noises. I couldn't do busy environments. I have memories of being in restaurants as a little kid and like just laying under the table because it was so overstimulated. And now, of course, I understand yeah, I had major post concussive syndrome going on where I had hypersensitivity to all sensory input and where that teariness was a direct result of that. The emotional lability that I experienced, the real difficulty with emotion regulation, all of that was related to the brain injury, but nobody knew. They sent me home from the doctor's office and were like, yep, we'll just watch the skull. It'll heal. My parents did their best. They're like, take a nap. Take, take it easy and then get back to life. Nowadays, I would have had massive early intervention with occupational therapists and speech pathologists and, every kind of therapy to support me. And I would have had an IEP, an individual education plan. I would have had special education supports, all that good stuff. But they didn't know. And in the early years, it manifested itself as like psychiatric symptoms. So I was just emotionally a mess, and I couldn't figure out how to be okay just stable, everything was an enormous deal, I thought that everything was the end of the world, and I was very rigid and black and white, all these things, so they tried to diagnose me with borderline personality disorder, they tried to diagnose me with rapid cycling bipolar, generalized anxiety, depression, anything they could throw at me, they did. And they gave me all of the medications I spent time on, antipsychotics, on lithium, on mood stabilizers, on anti anxiety, on antidepressants, all of it. I took all of it. I always got worse on any of it. And it wasn't until again, divine intervention. I was at the end of my merit falling apart because I had been suicidal and self harming for decades. I was trying to parent and be married while experiencing all of that and I was really failing. My now ex had the grace and wisdom to say, you need to go to the psych hospital. It can't do it anymore. And I went, they said, we can't put you inpatient because you're not actively wanting to harm yourself or others. So they sent me to a psychiatrist. That psychiatrist said, oh, maybe we can try birth control pills, maybe it's bipolar and I had tried to kill myself the last time I took antidepressants So I knew that was not a great path. So I went to another one and finally found. This is a great story too. Holistic psychiatrist who was completely booked but I called her and called her I said I'm going to die unless you take me six hours messages I left for her. I definitely crossed the line, right? I didn't know how to get help without trying to manipulate someone at that point. Finally, she gave in because I think she realized I was not going to give up. I saw her and she looked through my whole history and all my charts and everything and she said, have you ever had a head injury? And I said there is this funny story about when I was a baby and they used to always say imagine how smart you would have been if you hadn't fractured your skull so many times. That was the joke in our family. And she was like yeah, we need you to go to a neurologist. So I went to a neurologist. They were like, it's been 35 years. There's no way it has effect on you now. You're just a psych case. She said, keep looking. My now ex. looked up brain injury online, found the Brain Injury Association of Massachusetts, had a beautiful conversation with one of the generous, amazing humans there. She described me to this human, and this human was like, oh my gosh, 100 percent classic traumatic brain injury. Go see this doctor in Boston, which we live two hours outside of Boston. Again, another miracle. Called this doctor. We don't see anybody out of the city. It's too complicated. Go to somebody in your area. I was like, no, I need to see you. They said no. Then, fluke, their office made a mistake. The secretary called me and said, Can we see you on April 2nd? I will never forget April 2nd. I was like, yes knowing the doctor had said he would not see me, right? So I called my friend at the Brain Injury Association. Am I going to get in trouble if I go? She was like, no, you've been given a gift. Go to that appointment. I walked in thinking he's going to say, I already said I wasn't going to see you and turn me away. Instead, he looked through all my records, said all of this is traumatic brain injury and we can do several things. We can give you these therapies. I said, I need a book. I need a guide on it. And this is the beautiful moment. Do you know what book he gave me? Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. And in that moment I was like, F you, I wanted a guidebook on brain injury. But what he gave me was a guidebook on radical acceptance. And that was what I needed to just totally accept. Here I am. These are my cards. I have this brain that is not a very happy camper. But, this is the brain I have. What can I do with it? And that man changed my life. Just totally transformed. Totally new life I was given. And that was the last day that I was suicidal.

PMD: 12:57

Wow. The wisdom Victor Frankl is truly remarkable. He was a man who was ahead of his time. And it's fascinating how he managed to reframe the horrific experiences in the Nazi camps, not only for himself, but also for others around him. And the impact of his book, is so profound. I remember reading it many years ago and being absolutely stunned by his insights. And it was really humbling. And here we are often caught up in our own trivial complaints and grievances while viktor Frankl injured, unimaginable hardships. And for me, it really puts things into perspective because his ability to find purpose and meaning in such extreme circumstances is nothing short of extraordinary. And it makes you realize that none of us, none of us have any excuse for not finding meaning in our lives. And today we often find ourselves lacking in meaning morality, and mastery. Three things that I see, Viktor Frankl exemplified and we need to rediscover these aspects in ourselves and in our lives. Reflecting on Victor Frankl's experiences how has this influenced your views on resilience and the healing?

GCN: 14:20

I think that healing is a funny word because healing implies that there is one state of being that's unacceptable, and we need to move out of that state of being in order to be okay. And I think that's where my brain injury has given me the most gifts, is recognizing that I can have a life worth meaning, whether I'm healed or not. Because I am not going to be healed of this in the sense of my brain is never going to not be affected by these brain injuries. I have a tremendously more How would I say it? I need far less accommodations now than I did 10 years ago. I've made a lot of progress and I do believe in neuroplasticity and I do believe in my capacity to increase my wellness. I have a visual neurological ophthalmologist who I do vision therapy with and I've been through multiple rounds of this multi sensory training to rewire my brainstem and all these things and these glasses are special brain injury glasses. They don't have prescription, they have prisms that do something magical to my brain. I've done all of that stuff and I believe in it and I'm committed to it and I am experiencing the benefits of my increased wellness, but I also am not requiring myself to meet any sort of wellness or healing benchmarks in order to enjoy and find meaning and be of contribution in my current state. And I think that's what we can really learn from the disability community who is experiencing differences in their physical abilities and is able to find meaning and value and contribution without those things needing to change.

PMD: 16:12

Beautiful. From our previous conversations. I understand. That you have a strong focus on the nervous system and your work and I'd like to explore the intricacies of the nervous system and the mismatches that are prevalent in our society. Our nervous system serves as our body's communication network, which is finely attuned to respond to the various stimuli in our environment. However, what I've observed is that there are often mismatches between our nervous systems responses and the actual level of threat or safety in a situation. And I see in cases of chronic stress or trauma as an example, our nervous systems may become hypersensitive or hypervigilant, which then means we perceive danger even when there is none. And that can trigger us into reactivity that promotes a heightened stress response. Can you shed some light on what nervous system mismatches entail and how they impact our daily lives?

GCN: 17:21

Yes, I love that you brought that up. So in polyvagal theory, which is the foundational theory for the safe and sound protocol, which I'm trained in they call it a neuroceptive mismatch. So neuroception is the act of gathering and environmental information and physiological functioning information and comparing that with all the previous records from epigenetic level information in our DNA about past threats. Comparing and contrasting the current information with those past threats and making a decision to let us know, as you said, to communicate to us, this is safe, this is not safe. The design of that system is excellent and because of the way our society has shifted, especially post agriculturalism, we've developed, most of us very intense neuroceptive mismatches that cause us to both be over defensive, like you were describing with the hypervigilance, but also, under defensive. Most of us are a mix of over and under defensive and this is related to the societal changes because if you think about it, if you're living a hunter gatherer lifestyle, you are very responsive to both your body and the environment. Rather than controlling the environment, you're responding to it. If it starts to snow, you're going to shift to a warmer climate. If the food in the area is not as abundant, you're going to shift, if your system is needing more or less of something, sleep, food, water, you're going to just adjust the rhythm of your life to support that and to support the community. Whereas post agriculturalism, we stopped living in that responsiveness, and we started to live according to the external requirements that would allow for production of goods. Instead of eating, when the hunger communicated that it was helpful to eat and picking something that was specific to that moment. So let's say my body needed some sugar. I might go forage for some berries. My body needed some protein. I might go find something that had protein in it. My body needed more greens. It was spring. It was time to detoxify. There would be an abundance of greens and I would interact with those. Now we have these storage goods, and so we can eat something that's out of season, we can eat at a time that's not necessarily when we're hungry, then we also have the constraints of needing to be in a factory, or needing to work at a certain time when someone else wants us to, so we're now putting eating according to a schedule, we're saying you can go to the bathroom when I say you can go to the bathroom, you can sleep when I say you can sleep, you can eat all these things, and in that way we stopped being in the response to our nervous system and started overriding our nervous system. So if I know I'm not hungry now, but I'm not going to be able to eat for five hours, I'm going to eat now, which my body's going to be like, we didn't ask for this. What do you want us to do with this? And then our body's going to be trying to respond to what we're giving it, but it's going to be very confused, right? And it's not going to work according to the functioning. So the over responsive is like, All right, you're telling me everything is wrong all of the time, maybe let's just start thinking everything is scary. The under responsive is, you keep putting things in me that I'm telling you I don't need or not good for me, and so maybe I should stop telling you this message and just give up communicating with you, right? Most of us consume whether it's media or food or substances, things that our body does not feel great about, but we ignore the messages from our body, and that's when disease comes forward. Pain is a result of neuroceptive mismatch, because it's you won't pay attention, I'm gonna give you pain. The constant disassociations. The disassociation is the under responsive, the panic, hypervigilance is the over responsive. And so you have a whole group of humans who are living primarily between sympathetic and dorsal, which are fight and flight or freeze. And they're not having the capacity to access the more recently involved aspect which is called ventral vagal, which is the one that allows us to access both the fight and flight and the freeze when it's functional or effective and to shift out of them when it's not. So in an ideal system, when the house is on fire, I would go into fight or flight when an email comes through from my boss about a late assignment, I would not go into fight or flight. I would say, okay, this is something that is stressful to me, but I'm going to support my system, and I'm going to make good decisions through it. Because we are in that sort of constant fight flight freeze situation with the neuroceptive mismatch, most of us are just experiencing everything is threat, right? And that is where that chronic stress and all of that. It's a longer conversation. There's so many aspects of it, but what's good news is we can go back to those ancient practices that were developed when folks were more, in that indigenous hunter gatherer, living in response to themselves and the land, we can reintegrate those practices into our life. And we can start to rebuild a trusting connection with our nervous system, a respectful and communicative relationship with our nervous system, so that we can come back to that place of having the ability to respond to what life offers us.

PMD: 23:21

I really resonate with what you're saying, because there seems to be a disconnect between our current societal alignment on what's needed for true harmony and the influx of novelty often leads to mismatches, which leads to creating an asymmetry within ourselves and what we attempt to respond symmetrically to an asymmetrical environment. This only exacerbates the issue because we haven't cultivated internal symmetry. So it's fascinating to see how many of today's popular practices like mindfulness, like journaling are actually rooted in ancient indigenous wisdom. These practices have stood the test of time because they're inherently aligned with our natural state. They're not new. We've just modernized and packaged them for the 21st century. When we bring these ancient practices into our modern lives we can start to address are the mismatches you mentioned. As an example, the hundreds of people. In Northern Pakistan. They live a simple life and despite their lack of technology, their health and vitality are remarkable and their lifestyle highlights the wisdom in simplicity and alignment with nature. And I agree that disease and pain often carry messages from the body signaling that we are out of balance or I prefer to say out of relationship, to our bodies and we need to make adjustments. And this perspective challenges the relentless pursuit of material success at the expense of our wellbeing and connection to ourselves. In your coaching practice, you emphasize the concept of absolute innocence. And to me, this means approaching ourselves and others with a sense of unconditional compassion and acceptance free from judgment or preconceived notions. And it forms the foundation of your approach to supporting others on their journey towards a remedial balm of healing and self-discovery. Can you elaborate on absolute innocence and what this means to you and how it influences your approach to supporting others on their journey.

GCN: 25:55

We have great systems that work really well and there's a lot of wisdom in the body. And disease is wisdom. Pain is wisdom. Because it's communicating something. It's saying, we're out of balance. We need you to do something differently. One of the lowest frequencies there's this beautiful chart of, how human emotion relates to frequencies in David R. Hawking's Letting Go and one of the lowest ones is shame. So this idea that we could be bad or wrong or guilty is devastating on the system and on society. And one of my favorite quotes is by a teacher named Byron Katie. And she says, if I were thinking and believing what you were thinking and believing, I would do the exact same thing. So all violence is just confusion. It's just the nervous system thinking that something needs to be fought against. So the primary foundation of my work with people is to invite them to consider that whatever I'm doing, it's the best I'm capable of doing, given the set of information that I have right now. Given what I'm thinking and believing and whatever you're doing, whatever anyone outside of me is doing is just the best they can do, given what they're dealing with in terms of what they're thinking and believing and what their nervous system is telling them to think and believe. Okay, because there's something in our brain called the amygdala and there's a function called the amygdala hijack. If my nervous system perceives a threat. It will allow for the amygdala to hijack the flow of processes in the brain. Okay, I'm not a neuroscientist, but this is the best of my understanding of it. So we're in the the lower brain and we are identifying that there is a threat. The amygdala then says you can't go up to the frontal lobe and use executive functioning. There's no time for that. It's too dangerous. Instead, you must go from perception to in the lower brain up to the motor cortex where you can take action. Because if I put my hand on a hot stove and then I go up to the frontal lobe and go let's just think about it. Is the hot stove like actually doing anything wrong? Maybe I need to have compassion for the hot stove, or maybe this is a part of my learning that I'm going to burn my hand. No, we cannot do that. We need to go straight to the motor cortex so that I just pull my hand away before I've even had a thought about it. This is evolution trying to preserve the species. This is not good, bad, or otherwise. It is morally neutral. So if I am in the situation to be constantly ping ponging, this is reactivity, right? I am experiencing reacting. What can I do? I may feel like I'm the most terrible person on the planet. I may feel such guilt and shame about this. I may have a life that is in complete disarray. I may be burning relationships down by the minute. I may be failing jobs and quitting things and things can look really bad when we're in this reactivity loop, right? I may be blaming everybody outside of me, saying it's not fair, it's the government, it's my parents, it's my siblings, it's my boss, it's my ex, right? I'm going to be in a literal hell if I'm only in this loop of reactivity, and so what I'm offering people is an opportunity to consider, you are innocent, you are being blocked by your amygdala, this is not your fault. However, it is your responsibility. You do have the ability to respond to this situation, to do exactly what I had to do when that doctor handed me that book and say, Oh my gosh, this is where I am at, what can I do? And I can begin by accepting through that radical acceptance. This is where I am, and this is the physiology of what's happening to me. I can start to understand that physiology. I can start to be aware of how it feels in my body. And this is what I work with people to do. Figure out how that feels in your body. What does fight feel like in your body? What does flight feel like in your body? Now I go to the body and I say, What would help you right now? And I give them a nervous system regulation tool, which is actually like we identified just an ancient indigenous ritual, I give the body breath work. I give the body meditation. I give the body vocalization, chanting, singing. I give the body movement, now the body goes, the amygdala specifically goes are you saying maybe there's not a tiger that's about to eat us? Because you're breathing very deeply, and I know that if there was a tiger chasing us, you would not be able to breathe deeply. This little question mark that you give the amygdala is the crack. It's the crack that allows your brain to consider maybe we can go up to executive functioning. It might not work with just three deep breaths. Sometimes it does. Sometimes it's gonna take three deep breaths, and then a half hour walk, and then three meditations, and then some cold water on your wrists, and calling a friend, and doing some journaling. It may take a lot, depending on your level of distress. Now, here's where most people get stuck is they regulate the system and then they go. I feel better. I'm gonna go back to my life. Okay this is the biggest mistake because a regulated nervous system is not the goal Being in a respectful and trusting relationship with yourself and your story that's the goal because then the nervous system is not a problem. You can let it say whatever it needs So the piece after you've regulated your nervous system where you offer yourself self inquiry where you do the hard work of saying, What is this really about? What thought or story, What was I believing that made this such a problem and you face yourself, like Viktor Frankl did and you do that work to unravel those things. That's where you can actually start to have a life that allows the nervous system to just be a communicator and not a disruptor. Because your nervous system doesn't have to do so much if I really believe that everyone's innocent. Someone can scream at me and I can say, Oh, friend, Okay. Yep. I see that you're really scared right now. And so I'm gonna give you some space. Or I can say, you know what my value is that I actually don't spend time with people who scream at me. So I'm gonna wish you all of the love in the world and I'm gonna take my leave, right? It gives us this ability to respond that's really just straightforward and not so scary, but we can't get there when we just try to calm down the system.

PMD: 33:07

Nervous system dysregulation presents numerous challenges in the 21st century now, modern world and while not everyone may be fully aware of it the impact is undeniable and fortunately there are a plethora of strategies and techniques available for help us regulate our nervous system and restore harmony from mindfulness practices to somatic therapies and these approaches aimed to do more than just restore balance. They seek to rebuild the relationship between ourselves and our nervous system by recalibrating the autonomic nervous system. These practices promote a shift towards greater serotonin release, like a serotonin dump. A bit like hitting the brakes rather than the accelerator when faced with stressors and mindfulness breath work, yoga. Tai-Chi all these practices in particular play crucial roles in regulating the autonomic nervous system. And these practice also help us cultivate awareness of our body signals and rhythms which in turn allows us to respond more effectively to stressors. So incorporating these techniques into our daily routines can actually be transformative for nervous system health. And like you alluded to simple practices, like mindful breathing exercises or a brief yoga session can make a world of difference in restoring balance and promoting wellbeing. And as with anything, consistency is key. So finding ways to integrate these techniques into our daily lives, even if it's just for a few minutes a day can have profound effects and our nervous system health over time. So my question is how can individuals incorporate these techniques into their daily routines to support nervous system health.

GCN: 35:25

Yeah, beautiful question. So that's the other piece of that where a lot of people get stuck is that they'll put these nervous system regulation exercises in only when something's going wrong. And that's also just a band aid, right? So when we, like you're saying, add in the nervous system regulation practices or these indigenous rituals of the four categories, breathing, vocalization meditation or mindfulness and movement, we create a nervous system that when I say nervous system, I'm talking most specifically about the vagus nerve. And the vagus nerve is the nerve that connects from the brainstem down both sides of the ear canal, down both sides of the throat, and communicates in with the vocal folds and branches out to the lungs, the heart, all of the major organs, including the reproductive organs and the large and small intestines, that's the vagus nerve's job, which is basically running all of the automatic functions of our body, right? So anything that's happening to keep you alive that you're not thinking about, that's the vagus nerve's job, and the vagus nerve is telling all of those functions, go ahead, it's safe enough, or it's not safe, stop, we can't spend the extra energy. This is really huge in digestive issues because digestion is something that takes a ton of energy. And when you're scared or when you're in fight flight, you're going to have diarrhea, you're not going to digest your food because there's no time and you need to be lighter to fight or run away. And when you're in freeze, you're gonna be constipated or not have any appetite because you can't bring attention to yourself. Which would happen if you started digesting. All of these primary functions of being in a human body are are happening only when the vagus nerve says, go ahead. And the vagus nerve it's not a muscle, but we can use the word tone. with a nerve. I don't understand that from a science perspective. There's probably someone else who can explain that better than me. But when we do these exercises or these indigenous rituals, we tone the vagus nerve and a toned vagus nerve is more flexible. So I like to think of it like literal tendrils that connect cause you see nerves, they're like little branches and they connect in with the lungs and they say to the lungs. Hi, sweeties. How are you today? Do you have enough oxygen? Can the diaphragm drop down so you can fill up completely? And then the lungs say, no we think maybe we need to just breathe really short because we might have to run away from a tiger any moment, so there's this whole dialogue happening. And sometimes, these little tendrils might get a little stomped on or they're not being used because no one's checking in, they get a little mucky or clumped together. And I like to think that when we do these rituals or these exercises that it's like we're cleansing and putting a nice clean breeze on these little tendrils, and then they wake up. And when we start to give them this conversation, this respect ask them what they need, start to give them more of what they need. They can have this renewed conversation with our whole body and really support us in a beautiful way. When I work with people, I ask them to at least do 10 minutes a day of one of these practices and they can do 30 seconds here or there just to start to build a foundation. It's like taking a multivitamin and then you can add in acute stress situations. You can add in extras. But if we build up that reservoir we build up our nervous systems tone or flexibility it's communication highway is all clean and flowing, then stressful situations actually become less stressful because we have this more resilient or resourced system. When that's really depleted, when people are doing the standard American diet of not eating, not sleeping, not moving then your resources are very depleted and an email coming through from your boss can feel like the end of the world.

PMD: 39:40

Absolutely. Establishing a nurturing internal environment is paramount. Its like taking a daily multivitamin. The action itself may seem very small but the cumulative effects are substantial, because it may be a small tablet that you take, but what it maintains is very large. So consistency and practice are the cornerstones for building density and resilience within ourselves. And as you mentioned, even dedicating just 30 seconds or a minute a day to these practices can significantly influence the trajectory of our internal environment. It's about creating habits that reinforce a positive relationship with ourselves and our nervous system. Social support and connection also play integral roles in nervous system regulation and studies are showing that having a strong support network can buffer the impact of stress and promote overall wellbeing. So meaningful connections with others can have a calming effect on our nervous system and to cultivate a supportive network individuals can start by nurturing existing relationships and actually seeking out new connections and this might involve joining community groups participating in shared hobbies, or simply reaching out to friends and family for support. I know you alluded to this earlier on, but open communication and mutual respect.are key ingredients for fostering supportive relationships that contribute to nervous system regulation. and overall mental health. And in terms of social support and connection in your expert opinion, how does that contribute to nervous system regulation and how can individuals cultivate a supportive network for themselves?

GCN: 41:53

Yeah, you are so well versed in this. I'm really impressed because co regulation is the other huge part of the ventral vagal system. So being able to do what mammals evolved to do, which is connect with other beings to increase support and protection and growth possibilities, is one of the greatest strengths of humans is that we have evolved to be able to use co regulation. Alligators or reptiles don't, they just do fight or flight or freeze, right? So you put two alligators together they just have to either eat each other or go away from each other. They don't have the option to work together, and that's our greatest strength but it's something that if you're in a neuroceptive mismatch, and you are in your lower brain in that fight freeze. You don't have access to co regulation. There's something called the social engagement system that again is actually cut off because you are working from that earlier evolution perspective of the reptile perspective and you cannot co regulate as a reptile. So most of us are trying to do mammal behaviors like have a partner, parent, go to a workplace and collaborate with other people. We're trying to do mammal behaviors with reptile tools, and it goes badly, right? It goes really badly because you can't have a partnership as a reptile. That doesn't work, right? So many of us feel so much, again, guilt and shame about our failed relationship track record and our inability to have this thing that we see on movies of, like, all these pals that we go do fun stuff with, right? And share our deepest soul journey with. We feel like such losers and we feel so isolated because we're trying to do that with this lower brain. And I don't encourage people to try to go out and cultivate relationships first. I encourage people to work with the nervous system and re establishing their willingness and openness to connect with safety within themselves first. And what will emerge from that, the more access you have to this ventral vagal state where you're calm and curious, willing to connect, but comfortable being alone, naturally, you will make connections with other humans. But for a lot of folks that may need to start with a stuffed animal or with a pet, because that's one of the primary neuroceptive mismatches that the safe and sound protocol seeks to address is many of us have our nervous system has determined that humans are always a threat. So we have disassociated from the speech sound frequencies, which were evolved to be a indication of safety. So the like mother's coup is supposed to be the primary connector to Oh, I'm safe someone's here. Using speech sound frequencies, but because we have such a painful experience of humans who are unregulated and then confused, and treating people poorly, we've associated humans as dangerous. So for a lot of folks who really have that neuroceptive mismatch, I really encourage them first to work on cultivating that safety within themselves and maybe start doing some self soothing with blankets and stuffed animals, like I said, and experiencing that connection there, being able to receive in a way that is not as threatening as humans, then, maybe with animals, with nature, starting to have relationship with a plant or a tree outside can be a worthwhile step. We don't want to just throw ourselves into the deep end. Humans are very unpredictable, right? And naturally over time, that connection with other humans will come in as that social engagement system comes back online and your nervous system starts to associate the speech sound frequencies with safety. But it takes time.

PMD: 46:10

Thank you for that comprehensive explanation and as someone who's deeply passionate about the intricacies of the nervous system you found modalities like the safe and sound protocol to be truly compelling and exploring these techniques has been a journey of discovery helping you better understand how your nervous system responds to different stimuli and how you can foster greater regulation and resilience. And I really liked to hear your perspective on this in terms of how has your exploration of modalities such as the SSP, the safe and sound protocol transformed your relationship with your nervous system.

GCN: 46:52

Yes, so I had been working for five or six years on dbt dialectical behavioral therapy, which I know you and I talked a lot about last time and that was the most important foundation for me in terms of understanding what my options were in terms of just like being on this planet. Learning that it really mattered if I ate consistently and slept consistently and, avoided mood altering substances and started to explore mindfulness, started to explore some of this self soothing, started to understand emotion regulation, that was like, K 12 for me. I really just needed that first, right? Then when I was rocking and rolling on, okay I think I'm willing to be on this planet and I'm starting to feel okay about it and I think, it's not horrible to be a human. I realized that there was still looking at those PhDs, like kind of seems like there might be more there might be really something else that's even more awesome than just I'm okay being on the planet and I began searching more for that and polyvagal theory came across my life and I was like, huh What could that be? Because it's not esoteric, I had done all the esoteric I had done the work of Byron Katie and I've done Buddhism and radical acceptance and all this and I still could tell that when I had to deal with my ex about logistics for our kid. I was like, yeah, I love you and have compassion for you, and I know it's for my highest good, and that we chose each other in the soul journey. But I still, I think I want to spit on you, and I want to just tell you're a horrible evil person, and I wish you would die, I knew that was still there. And that part I couldn't spiritualize myself out of and the SSP, which is a listening program that increases flexibility in the nervous system passively on a very physiological level. It doesn't require any spiritual reality. It doesn't require any therapeutic anything. You don't have to think about anything. I was like, I wonder what that would be. That's intriguing that this little animal body is not convinced by these spiritual concepts that I really do believe, but my little animal body is not convinced. I still feel like I'm gonna be killed every time I see this woman, and I know she's not my favorite, but she's not a bad apple, and going through the SSP, it was bizarre, is the only way I can say it. It did something to my nervous system, and it's a privilege. It's expensive, it's long, it's a huge time and financial investment. Not everyone has access to it, right? It's not like all these other modalities that are free. It's pretty schnazzy and cool, and I feel very privileged to have gotten the experience to do it because when I finished it, it's five hours of listening and you do it over slowly over time. I showed up at soccer, to do the thing with the kid and this woman walks up to me. I've known her for 20 years, right? I've had a pit in my stomach every time I've seen her for 20 years. She walks up and I kid you not, I just was like, hey, I just felt like saying hi. Hi. It was like, I never seen her before, like she was just a fresh, dewy, little baby, and I just was saying hi, because look at that beautiful human. There are no words, there are no words. I couldn't have spiritualized myself or thought myself to that point that I'm aware of. Something changed. My nervous system no longer needed to tell me that I was in trouble. It was bizarre. And I can't say that it has stayed at that point. There's still times when I get freaked out about co-parenting, but I know that's there now. It's once you see something, you can't unsee it. I can't unsee that at the bottom, she's a human and I'm a human and I can love her, and I feel like she's not in charge of my safety anymore. No one's in charge of my safety anymore. That safety comes from me. I wish I could give it to everyone for free. I just really do.

PMD: 51:08

It's so fascinating because it's such a compelling narrative. I believe that our perception is shaped by our ability to regulate ourselves. Our perception is essentially a reflection of our internal state when we're able to regulate our internal world our perception of the external world shifts accordingly. And this concept really resonates with me. I'm really intrigued by the title of your approach the bewilderment fairy how did you come up with that title and what does it signify for you in the context of your coaching approach.

GCN: 51:50

Yeah I love this podcast called Oh, gosh. I think it's called the Bewilderment Podcast, and their concept is that we can be wilder, that we can be more free and natural when you are willing to say maybe none of this is real. Just become bewildered and be like turn it upside down. Maybe it's all backward. Maybe I got it all confused. Maybe I don't need to be like everyone else and follow the rules and try to be good and get an A maybe it's something completely different and there's some wildness within us. So yeah, that's my goal with the absolute innocence and be wilder is to say, let's question everything. Let's just turn it upside down and resort it out. Take what we like and leave the rest. Let's consider that maybe we're totally innocent and let's see what happens then. There's so much possibility. And that's what that shift in perspective, you start to see possibilities that weren't there before because everything was real narrowed in to try to keep you safe and if we can start to I like to say we'd just taken thoughts and we're putting them like in a Rubik's Cube and just switching them around 100 ways and trying to just say what could be there that we didn't see before. So that's where that came from. I'm not trying to fix anybody. I'm just trying to say, let's just let's shake it all up. What see what happens.

PMD: 53:17

Oh, I love that and let's shift from a state of contraction and construction's one of expansion. And rewilding them ourselves. The process of rewilding is transformative and I believe co-regulation plays a significant role in facilitating it and by nurturing relationships and fostering regulation we can rewild our systems and embrace a more authentic way of being. In looking ahead, I'm curious about your aspirations and promises to yourself, both personally and professionally. How do you envision your journey evolving and what impact you hope to have on the lives of those you work with and reach through your various platforms.

GCN: 54:09

Oh my mission is to offer people the opportunity to see that they are absolutely innocent and that there are no conditions on love and that true love is there's no conditions and there's no way that you can be separated from it. And so if anything that I do can give people that little glimmer, that little sigh of thinking, ah, maybe I'm not the problem, then I would be so grateful. Yeah. That's my whole thing.

PMD: 54:38

Are there any specific projects or initiatives on the horizon that you're particularly excited about. And what would you like our audience to know about.

GCN: 54:48

Yeah, I made a podcast, which I don't know if I had done when we last spoke. It's called Earth School with Z and it's about let's let's see what we can learn here, and hearing people's stories, personal stories, less about modalities, but more about personal stories. How do people support themselves in seeing the journey as a learning opportunity and not feeling stuck in the victimhood? It's been so fun. I love it. I think my favorite thing right now is podcasts. Being on podcasts, making a podcast. I love podcasts right now. I just love conversations. I love my clients. I see one on one clients. I use the SSP with some. I do just coaching and be wildering with others. I have an online program which we just started having bi weekly question answer live sessions, and that's been a blast to it's an online course that can be asynchronous. People can just download it. That's about nervous system and all of these different things that we've talked about today. But then the live component has been fun too. So I'm loving that. Yeah, I'm having the time of my life. I feel I'm living that thing that like straight up, if you had told me 10 years ago this was possible, I'd be like, you do not know anything. That is ridiculous. But I'm having so much fun so

PMD: 56:07

yeah, I can see that you're a beacon of transmission for it and very briefly because I know we are coming to the top of the hour. Where can people find you?

GCN: 56:16

www.annexperiencer.com. A N experiencer.com. Oh, I forgot to say I'm also having a blast on my YouTube channel. I started a YouTube channel. I think we did talk about that, and it's so fun. I feel like it's like all these things, I feel like I'm having the most amazing conversations with the whole world. It's so cool.

PMD: 56:37

I want to say, thank you so much for coming on the transcendent minds podcast. And if I was to characterize the conversation we've been having, I think that until we engage in the reset and the regulation, we can only recycle our experiences and in that way, we'll just keep manifesting the same limiting results and it limits our possibilities for sure. So if people want to get in touch with you and step into an active genesis of possibility, they now know where to go.

GCN: 57:08

Yeah, it limits our possibilities for sure. I love it. I love how you word things. Thank you so much for having me. Such a joy.

PMD: 57:15

Oh, it's been an honor a privilege. Thank you so much.