From Depression To Joy with Alisha Kapani

In this inspiring conversation, Alisha Kapani shares her incredible journey of healing from severe depression and anxiety. 

Despite trying various healing methods without success, Alisha experienced a profound shift in her life when she embraced surrender. 

By letting go of the desperation to heal, she discovered the practice of mind-body medicine, which paved the way for her transformation. 

Alisha’s story is a testament to the power of consciousness in healing, and it offers hope for those who are struggling with mental health challenges. Join us as she reveals the insights that led her from despair to unconditional joy and peace.

You can connect with Alisha Kapani here: https://alishakapani.com

Transcript

PMD: 0:27

I'm really thrilled to introduce today's remarkable guest, Alicia Kapani, a remarkable individual whose journey through the depths of depression and emerged on the other side of profound insights into mind body healing. Alicia's story is one of resilience transformation and profound healing and she's here today to share her wisdom and her journey with us. She is a beacon of hope and resilience in the realm of mental wellbeing and mental health and her journey through the depths of depression has transformed her into a compassionate guide and mentor for others navigating similar struggles as a certified coach specializing in depression and mental wellness. She is a beacon of hope and resilience in the realm of mental wellbeing and mental health and her journey through the depths of depression has transformed her into a compassionate guide and mentor for others navigating similar wellness and her journey through the depths of depression and mental health She offers a unique blend of personal experience, professional expertise, non wavering support to her clients and through her coaching programs, workshops and online platforms, Alicia empowers and enables individuals to confront their inner demons with their own. Challenge their limiting beliefs and embark on their journeys of healing and self discovery. With Alicia by their side, her clients find the strength, the courage, and the resilience to reclaim their lives and step into a brighter, more vibrant future. Alicia, welcome to the Transcendent Minds podcast.

AK: 1:51

Wow, thanks so much for that introduction, and thank you so much for having me.

PMD: 1:56

You're most welcome. Your journey through severe depression and anxiety was a harrowing one, marked by years of struggle and despair, and despite trying various healing modalities and spending countless resources, you found yourself trapped in a cycle of suffering, you were unable to find relief. And it wasn't until you, what I can gather is that you embraced surrender and softened around your desperation to heal that you experienced a profound shift. And through the practice of mind body medicine, you found healing that seemed almost, I don't know if it was instantaneous, but it led you to explore the power of consciousness in healing yourself and others. Can you share with us what specific moments or realizations led to your shift from desperation to surrender and how did this shift pave the way for your healing journey?

AK: 2:58

For a lot of people, I think they need to max out on the other ways of trying to distract or manage from their emotions. I did that for a long time, and I truly think I needed to do that before I was actually ready to surrender. And I also think I needed to max out on trying a bunch of things to heal before I was ready to surrender that's what had me surrender, was I was trying everything and nothing was working, that I gave up. And I know people are like, afraid to give up, but it was actually when I gave up, and I just thought nothing works so I guess I just can't heal from depression, so I think I just need to like, manage my way through life because nothing works for me. There was a shift there where I stopped trying so hard to heal myself. So I was no longer sending this message to my body I need to change you. Something's wrong with you. I need to fix you. I need to make this pain go away. Whenever I stopped doing that, there was a softening, there was a surrender, and there was a shift in consciousness. And that is when I actually received the resource that I need. That's when I found my mentor effortlessly. I didn't go looking for her. And then when I found her work, like I said, I healed pretty much instantly. Like I started to feel unconditional joy and peace right away and then it just kept growing and growing and growing. It's not like I felt like a ton of joy. I went from despair to so much joy in one second. It was gradual, but I immediately started to feel like unconditional joy and peace that didn't depend on anything outside of me. So I didn't have to change my job or get a new relationship or anything like that for me to then feel better. It was truly an internal shift. And then my outer reality just happened to change and respond because now I'm in a different consciousness where the job that didn't align faded away, relationships that didn't align fade away, new things came in. So that was the key moment where I started to receive the resources that I needed was when I stopped trying so hard to fix myself. And I say that to all my clients they fill out this intake form before they work for me, and one of the questions is what have you tried or what are you currently trying? And when I see a paragraph that's like this long of everything they're trying, I'm like, oh, okay part of the reason you're not healing is because you're not tuning into your body's wisdom to see what your body needs because it's usually one thing or something very fluid and effortless that's a resource that's like available for you. You aren't meant to try a hundred things to heal no matter what your illness or disease is, it's not meant to be complicated to heal. It's just your body's asking for something in particular. So yeah, when I stopped trying so hard to heal and honestly, when I surrendered, I received what I really needed.

PMD: 5:33

Beautiful. And I want to say, because I've worked within the realms of depression with clients and I really salute your courage for doing this work because it is work. You have to go into the shadow side. You have to face your own demons and face the darkness and expose these things and not suppress these emotions that you've encountered in your life. So I want to say, thank you very much for being a light in this world and I really do salute your courage, but I want to delve into some of the aspects of depression. Because I think for listeners who may be sitting there listening to this thinking I'm in this black hole and I just don't know how to get out. If you allow me, can we go into some of these aspects and maybe resurrect some of these things so we can actually put them in plain sight and say, look, this is what it is. This is what it looks like.

AK: 6:30

yes. Yeah. So are you going to start with that?

PMD: 6:34

I was going to ask about how did the struggle with depression impact your sense of self worth?

AK: 6:40

Oh yeah, definitely I was lacking self love, I had low self worth, didn't really value myself in relationships and all that kind of stuff, like I was really abandoning myself. I guess a part of me didn't think I was worthy of having unconditional love. I didn't even know what it was. I remember a practitioner I worked with said that to me because when I was trying to heal from depression, there was a point where I just thought, Oh, if I'm in another relationship again, then I'll feel joy. So I kept telling her that in the sessions I just want to date someone again. And she's I don't think you know what unconditional love is. And I was like, you know what, I think she's right. I never really felt it from my parents. I didn't give it to myself. And that was like a key thing that helped me heal actually, because before when I was trying to heal, I was giving myself conditional love. Okay. Yeah, sure. We can do all these things, but only if this pain goes away. Everything was conditional. But when I started giving myself unconditional love, like you can feel this way for as long as you want. You can take your time with this. I'm here for you no matter what, no matter how long it takes and I truly gave myself unconditional love. That's when I started healing.

PMD: 7:52

What factors contributed to your belief that your worth is tied to external validation?

AK: 8:00

Oh yeah I think it was passed down from my parents and my ancestors especially, like I'm Indian, so it's very common for them to be like, your education is everything, you don't have value and worth unless you're educated and you look a certain way like my mom even had to lie about her education to get married like she wasn't educated and she had to make a fake degree and all this kind of stuff to get married So it was really passed down in my genes. No one's gonna love you. No one's gonna marry you unless you're smart and you're educated and you're pretty and all this kind of stuff So it was pretty programmed in game And also just from society, too. Your outer value and productivity is the only thing that matters, and there's nothing within that really has value. It's just very common.

PMD: 8:45

I can totally identify with that through my own culture as well, my parents culture and there are elements of that in there, so I totally get it. There must have been a time when you realized that your inherent worthiness influenced the perception of who you are, your being. How did that realization come about? How did that influence your sense of self worth and the perception of who you were as a living human being.

AK: 9:17

So my perception started changing when I started to give myself presence every day. Like I used to do this thing for an hour a day. I would give myself like an hour of presence no matter what you accomplish today, no matter what you look like today, you're going to get this time, this unconditional love and presence and attention. So that was the purpose of it. I was trying to send a new message to my body that no matter what, even if you did nothing today, you still received love no matter what you looked like today, I still gave you love. So I just started to send a different message to my body that you're worthy and deserving of receiving unconditional love every single day, no matter what. And that really started to shift my perception of myself and also I had to welcome a lot of shame. I carried a ton of shame and self judgment so I was judging myself. I was judging other people. I was always really hard on myself. If I felt like I said the wrong thing, or I said too much, Whatever, like every time I would hang out with someone after I would feel what I'd call a vulnerability hangover. Meaning I'm going over everything in my head that I said and I shouldn't have said that and I'm judging myself so much and I couldn't even enjoy any time with another person because I'd feel this way after. And that went away completely when I welcomed shame. It took a while, but I dissolved so much shame that, like when that shame isn't there, you just naturally love yourself more because you're not judging yourself anymore.

PMD: 10:52

And were there any other steps that you took probably on reflection should have asked you this question in this way, but were there any other steps that you took to nurture your sense of self worth on a daily basis?

AK: 11:07

Other than the hour a day for a hundred days of presence.

PMD: 11:12

Say more about that.

AK: 11:14

Yeah. So I actually did this cause Kyle Cease was doing like a thing about, I don't know if you know what Kyle Cease is, but he had done this a hundred days of giving himself an hour of presence per day. So that's what I did, but I found it really hard to sit for a whole hour at once. So I would split it up like 15 minutes in the morning, 15 minutes at night. And then little breaks throughout the day. And I realized it was really hard to presence myself throughout the day. That's when you want to distract the most. That's when you feel the most amount of pain or boredom, or you just want to keep busy. You don't want to slow down. In the morning and the evening, it's a little bit easier for most people because you're already a little bit tired and groggy. So it's like not that hard to drop in and presence yourself. So that took me a while, but yeah, that's what I was talking about earlier. The purpose of me doing that was to tell my body, you deserve to receive attention and love no matter what. I did that for a hundred days consistently for an hour a day. That's one of the main tools. And then investing in myself was a big thing. I had to every time I would buy something for myself, I would feel uncomfortable. You don't deserve that, you shouldn't have that, you shouldn't invest in yourself. So I would have to really welcome the discomfort that would come from me investing in myself so that my body got a new message. You're worthy and deserving of investing in yourself. And anytime someone tried to buy things for me, buy dinner for me, buy a gift for me, and it made me uncomfortable, I had to also welcome that discomfort too, because it was just a bunch of beliefs, like you're unworthy of receiving this much kind of thing. So that was another thing that I did.

PMD: 12:52

It's a beautiful thing because you're instructing your faculty, you're instructing your neurobiology to indelibly engrave a habit and that expresses itself in many different ways, behaviorally, in your mindset, in your thoughts and so on and so forth. But not only that, there is a creational expression of that because when you learn and align, that is an expression of your own evolution. of your own personal evolution, and that has a ripple effect. So that's what I was saying earlier about you doing the work is not only just for you, although initially it is because obviously you have to go into the rough and tumble of your own mind and your demons and shadows and all the rest of it. But now it's like that ripple effect and not just go in one direction, but it can go in many directions, which is what you're doing now with the work that you do. In terms of fear, how does fear of rejection or how did fear of rejection, I should say, impact your ability to engage in relationships at that time?

AK: 14:04

Yeah. I had a fear of being abandoned, mostly, because my dad had left, so that majorly impacted my relationships, because I would not express how I was feeling in my relationships if I was upset, because I was afraid the person would leave me, if It's not just joy and peace and butterflies the whole time. So that's what I tried to make the relationship like, was just like, fun, very passionate, and never talk about how I was feeling so that these people wouldn't leave me. And then that actually triggered the depression for me. Because I was suppressing everything I was feeling so that people wouldn't leave me. So it had a huge impact on my mental health. my relationships too because I couldn't have a deep connection with anyone if I'm not sharing how I'm feeling. They can't learn if they don't know how I'm feeling and I can't even attract a partner that's emotionally available and wants to learn how to be there for me if I'm too scared to even open up. So yeah, I had a lot of fear.

PMD: 15:04

What role does vulnerability play in building meaningful connections with others?

AK: 15:11

I think it's a must. I think if you're not sharing how you feel, it's very hard for your partner to learn what you need. It's through your expression that they learn. If you're not expressing it in some way, like maybe it's not even words, maybe it's as soon as they did something that hurt you, you just showed it with your body language or your facial expression or something, like any sort of expression is how the person can tell something's going on. It's easier for them to tell. We actually are able to feel what's going on in other people's bodies anyways. We are receptors, like you can tell when someone's upset even if they're not saying anything, but to make it even more obvious for your partner to learn this hurts me, this is not what I need, this is what I need. Expression and it takes vulnerability to be safe to express yourself.

PMD: 16:00

Give us an insight and how did your experience of being in a depressive state influence your willingness to open up to others?

AK: 16:10

Oh yeah. That's a good point. I think I had to realize that it created depression for me to stop doing it. Because now, when I'm in a relationship, I immediately share when I'm upset for multiple reasons, because I know what it creates when I suppress what I feel now. It literally creates depression in my body when I suppress what I feel, so I have to say something. And also, going through that healing journey of depression, I have become more aware and more sensitive. Now I actually drop in consistently to feel what I'm feeling. So now that I'm more aware of what I'm feeling, it actually is extremely uncomfortable to suppress it. I physically can't. If I'm dating someone and they're doing something that hurts me, I physically can't hold it in anymore because I'm too sensitive, I'm too aware, and I'm too aware of what it creates to suppress it, so there's no way I'm going to hold it in. And this way I also weed people out early on that they are not emotionally available, and they can't hold space for me, and it scares them to even see me upset. I'd rather those people not. I'd rather know that early on. So I'm not investing a lot of time in a relationship for someone who has no interest in how can I hold space for you, what you need when you're upset.

PMD: 17:22

That's really important because it's the ability to keep out the impressions that that don't serve you will dictate the outcome of your own personal growth, your own personal evolution. So you have to be careful with whom you mix. I don't mean that in a snobby way, but I mean that in more of a selective way, where you've got boundaries, you've got standards, you've got a strong foundation so that you can put discernment to work, and that's so important to do. I know you mentioned your father, your mother, but was there anything within your upbringing on reflection that contributed to your tendency to suppress your emotions?

AK: 18:09

Yeah, I think also part of it was I had a older sister who has narcissistic qualities. I'm not going to call her a narcissist because I do think it's very limiting to put someone in a box. Because a lot of people have beliefs that narcissists can't change and all this kind of stuff. My relationship with all of my family members has changed and is more peaceful when I thought that was impossible. But yeah, having an older sister with narcissistic qualities that always had to have the attention on her. If it's not on her, she is upset. You can see it in the videos. If someone's giving me love and attention, she's looking at me she didn't like it and it was almost more comfortable, like I would receive less torture from her if I just stayed small and quiet and didn't really say much. So that was part of it. I don't think I was taught it's safe to express my emotions. I could just sense that my mom was suppressing everything she was feeling and I think I indirectly unconsciously was learning from her she's not expressing how she's feeling. It just wasn't taught to me. It was taught the opposite, actually. And they really didn't want me to share how I was feeling with other people, too, because they thought it would bring shame to the family if people knew the family drama that we were having. So I was taught don't tell your friends, don't tell anyone what's going on. And so then, I didn't have anyone to talk to.

PMD: 19:26

I certainly have a bearing on especially when you're very young and your prefrontal cortex is not fully formed. It's the distinction between measurement and interpretation because you start to feel things through your five senses psychology, but you don't necessarily have the development at a very young age to interpret what those feelings are. You can go, you feel bad or you feel icky but you can't really give it descriptive value and that gets shunted into your subconscious mind and before you know it, that's running the show. Yeah. Were there any insights or techniques that you use to cultivate emotional authenticity and express your feelings in healthy ways?

AK: 20:15

Yeah I've actually read a lot about this cause expressing is a feminine energy and most of us are not taught that there's value in feminine energy or what feminine energy even is. How do you allow natural expression? Because a lot of us think certain emotions are inappropriate. Don't show anger that's inappropriate. So it took me realizing that it's okay to have an expression that's really messy. And if you truly have people in your life that love you, they're not going to judge your expression, and I realized that a tool is like also just letting them know Hey, I'm really triggered right now. Can you hold space for me while I express how I'm feeling, anything I'm saying right now, it's just thoughts that go along with this, but they're not the truth, so don't buy into what I'm saying is true, I just need to get this out, or, if I don't feel like I have someone in my life that is able to do that, maybe I'll just journal about it, or I'll welcome my emotions but I've just gotten better at allowing a natural expression in the moment when I'm upset. Another thing that I'll do is if I'm super triggered and I think I'm going to say something that I don't really mean from a triggered state, I will welcome my trigger first until I feel more at peace, and then I'll feel into, is there anything I still want to express? Or was this just something going on with me and this person didn't really do anything that I want them to change? Because a lot of people just mirror back to you and show you things you need to heal, and they didn't really do anything that was, quote, wrong or bad, it was just like, they did something they didn't mean to do, or whatever. So only after I welcome my trigger do I truly become aware is there something I still need to express. A need maybe like I want them to do this differently next time and I know that after I've gone through the trigger and then maybe I'll go to that person who hurt me or whatever and I'll say hey when you did this it really hurt me and in the future It would, this would really help me. And if this person loves you, they'll be willing to receive it. If that person's carrying a lot of shame, they may have trouble receiving it, I've realized, because if you give someone constructive feedback, who's carrying shame, a lot of the times their immediate reaction is to get defensive. Because they don't want to feel the shame in their body like they did something wrong. So I've learned to just really share things in a way that is not pointing blame at all. And I'm taking full responsibility that this is my own trigger. Probably has nothing to do with you. I know you didn't mean to hurt me. Just being very gentle with it. Because I know a lot of people carry shame and have a hard time receiving constructive feedback.

PMD: 22:56

Such a huge subject cultural shame and personal shame, especially in certain cultures as well. Cause we live in very much a shame based culture. But I think one of the words you mentioned was awareness, because I think that is a fundamental principle as a precursor to empowerment is to become aware because with awareness, you can then put discernment to work. If you're not aware of it, then you're in a muddle. It's like trying to grab fog. You can't quite get it, awareness is very key. How did your fear of speaking up contribute to your experience of depression?

AK: 23:35

Yeah like I was afraid to express how I was feeling in my relationships, so then I would not say it, and I would hold it in, and I would suppress it, and that's what depression is stuck energy. Like, all these emotions that you did not release, so they're just sitting there because emotions are energy. So since depression is just stuck energy and I was suppressing my energy, suppressing my emotions, that is what literally triggered the depression for me.

PMD: 24:06

That builds a lot of psychic residue in the body as well when you have that kind of stuck energy. Many years ago I worked with some clinicians and we looked at depression in a very different way. The way we looked at it was we used a structure of impressions. So what we take in, compression, okay, I'll say a little bit more about that, and depression. So every day, we're bombarded with so many impressions from our surroundings. What tends to happen is that we don't necessarily delete some of those impressions. They get lodged within us and what happens is that we don't filter them. We don't filter those things out. And those impressions from our surroundings and interactions and experiences, those impressions can be positive or negative, and they all have a mark on our minds. When we look at depression, We're looking at being overwhelmed by negative impressions, or when our filters are distorted, we may experience that sinking feeling or a sense of heaviness or numbness and that's what we commonly know as depression and I appreciate there are different types of depression, like gender related depression and so on and low mood and all the rest of it. But here's the thing, the concept of compression. Imagine taking a balloon, blowing it up, and drawing a smiley face on it, and putting it by your bedside on a plinth for a week. What do you think happens to that after a week? It starts to deflate. Yeah, you go from this, smiley face, to this. Yeah. Compression which is the opposite of depression, is a force that lifts us up and keeps us afloat, like the air in a car tire or a hot air balloon, or you want to do a deep dive under the ocean, you need compressed air. But when we engage in compressive thoughts and compressive activities and compressive behaviors, we create an internal pressure that counteracts the effects or the downward pull of depression. So compressive thoughts are the actions that energize us, ones that give us a sense of purpose and fulfillment. And they can be anything from pursuing a passion, connecting with loved ones, exercising, learning something new, but anything that fills our sails and propels us forward, that can be considered compressive. Why is it important to understand that because when we suppress our emotions or ignore our need for compression, that only exacerbates the problem. So seeking out compressive activities can navigate the currents of our minds with greater resilience and buoyancy.

AK: 27:18

Yeah, and I want to add because of someone who's been in that position and had depression and couldn't access that every time I tried and I was like, oh alicia just try to hang out with friends more you like dancing try to go to more dance classes or this it didn't bring me joy because it wasn't an inspired action. It was a, I'm going to do this so I don't feel my pain. So I was still suppressing what I was feeling. So the state that you make that choice from really is important. If it really adds to your joy to dance and exercise and hang out with friends, of course, do things that add to your joy, to expand your joy. But if you're doing it as a way to distract from your pain, you will actually keep the energy in place. So I found every time I try to force myself to do stuff like that, it made me feel worse. Because every time I went out, I was like, oh my god, I'm still upset. I went to this spa that I'd wanted to go to for years. Finally went to the spa. It was so beautiful, the mountains, it was snowing while I was in the hot tub, and I still felt depressed, I still had suicidal thoughts, and I kept thinking, if this can't bring me joy, this is something I've always wanted, something that's beautiful. Nothing can bring me joy, and then I would feel worse. Not technically worse, I just was more aware now of what I was already feeling. What I did personally was I welcomed a lot of the pain, and then when it dissolved, I naturally felt more joy. Because that is your natural state. And then when I naturally felt more joy, I actually felt more inspired to go and do things. And I didn't have to force myself to do those compressive actions that you're talking about. I felt inspired to do them, or they just showed up in my life, like activities I hadn't heard of, exercises I haven't heard of that were really joyful, that were so close to home, like things I didn't know existed, just showed up when I shifted my consciousness into more joy naturally. So I just wanted to say that cause like when I tried to force myself to do those like compressive actions that you talked about, I did feel worse. Yeah, so listen to this call that tries it and then feels worse. I don't want you to feel disappointed. It just means you might be choosing those things out of suppression instead of inspiration and adding to your joy. Maybe that's why you're not feeling lighter when you do them.

PMD: 29:36

That's a really valid point because it's not about coercion to do those compressive activities. It's more about understanding that instead of trying to solve the problem, you have to dissolve it. literally let it dissolve and the only way you can do that is by allowing those emotions to rise and exposing them and facing them and not trying to suppress them. It's like I give this analogy if you hold a beach ball under the water with two arms, you have two balls, you're holding them under the water and you try and push them down, i. e. your emotions, when you let go the higher they're going to pop up. So there's no point trying to suppress them, which is what we're conditioned to do is to move away from them rather than towards them. And it's when we move towards them and expose them and we become that compassionate witness and it's no easy feat, we're talking about it and I do understand from one level that it's not an easy feat you have to do the work of it. In terms of boundaries, what role did setting boundaries play in your journey of healing?

AK: 30:49

Yeah, so I like to use the word honoring myself instead of setting boundaries, even though they're the same thing, but that was a key thing for me as I was not honoring myself in every area of my life. Yeah, a lot of people can do boundaries in a way that creates hardness and then it blocks you from receiving resources and love.

PMD: 31:10

Some boundaries can create a battlefield.

AK: 31:13

Yeah. So that's why I like to use the word honoring myself. If my body is making something clear, I'm just gonna honor it and that's how I explain myself to people when people ask me to do things that don't resonate with me. I literally just say I have to honor my body because if I don't, it's going to create resentment and I don't want to resent you because I love you, and then I don't have to really set boundaries in a hard way, but honoring myself is what allowed me to heal and is also what me not honoring myself is why it took me so long to heal because I was getting awareness from my body during the healing journey and it just wasn't listening to it. Because I didn't understand it. I didn't know how to tune into my body's wisdom for guidance. For example, when I first started trying to heal from depression, I didn't know what else to do. So I went to my doctor and she gave me antidepressants because that's what that model is. They don't know what else to do. And I sat there crying for an hour before I took my first antidepressant because I didn't want to take it. My body was making it so clear. You don't need this. This is not what I'm asking for, but I didn't understand that. I didn't understand that when something feels that heavy. It's like your body's way of saying, this is not aligned with you, this is not what I'm asking for, this is not what I need. So I did a lot of things because I didn't know that. Taking many different types of antidepressants, trying so many different types of therapies and healing modalities that felt really heavy, but I just didn't know what else to do, and I didn't know what that meant. Once I started to realize, oh, okay. When it feels like this and it feels this heavy and then I do that thing, nothing gets created. So it's like my body's way of telling me, don't put energy into that. So once I started to realize that, I stopped putting my energy into things that felt heavy. Sometimes they'd had to get really heavy for me to finally realize and then let it go. But now I'm so sensitive and so aware and I've been doing this for years that it only needs to get tiny bit heavy and then I know what that means and so then I immediately stop putting my energy into it and so that I heal much faster and things in my life change much faster because I don't have to try a million things to then get clarity like your body is trying to communicate with you. It's just most people are unaware of how so just pay more attention to what it feels like before you make a choice and what gets created from that choice, and then you'll start to be able to tell, okay, when it felt like this got created, when it felt like this got created, and you'll understand what your body's wisdom feels like and how it speaks to you.

PMD: 33:41

You get a deeper penetration and an optimal grip on understanding of self care and self compassion and that evolves over time, but you've got to get into the practice of it, but access is always the key. You strike me as somebody who's a sensitive soul And my question to you is how did your sensitivity, or did your sensitivity contribute to your experience of depression?

AK: 34:06

Yeah, it was actually me suppressing how sensitive I naturally am that triggered the depression for me, because a lot of people out there experience depression, but they are able to distract enough that they don't really feel it, like they're able to work more hours, or drink more, or do drugs, or have more sex, or do all these things, and they actually feel okay, and can manage their way through life. But because I'm so sensitive, those things just didn't work for me. They don't really work for anyone, but they really could not bring me any sort of peace because I'm just that sensitive, that I'm like, I can't even. People that just go on social media and distract, That didn't work for me. I'm too sensitive that I go on social media and now I feel more, more triggered, more emotions, more energy. I go out and try to just drink with my friends, and then I would see girls my age just like laughing and having fun, and I would think, why can't I be like them? Even if I tried to do the other things, It didn't make me feel any better because I'm so sensitive. So I think for a lot of people that have severe depression or any sort of illness, actually, I think there are people that are very empathic and very sensitive and are suppressing a lot of what they're feeling. I think to be that sensitive, that's why they just suppress it because they don't know how to process it. It feels overwhelming. So then they suppress it and then it leads to some sort of illness.

PMD: 35:31

It's easier to suppress it than deal with the pain or the outcome of it. I've got a headache, take a pill, it goes away, but what is the causality of that headache? What is the cause of it? And we don't address that. We just look at the outcome. And it's like, how do I fix it? Someone fix it for me. And again, you need to have personal responsibility and accountability which is another principle of empowerment. Were there any specific sources of negativity or toxicity that you felt you need to protect yourself from?

AK: 36:06

You know what this is what I believe. I believe that everything that shows up in my life is a reflection of me and my state of consciousness and what I'm carrying. So anything, quote, toxic showing up in my life, like relationships or unhealthy eating or whatever, it was a reflection of the energies I was carrying. So when I started to heal those things, all of those things just naturally changed. Even people that still are like that my sister can be very much like that, very dramatic, but yet our relationship is so peaceful, and I'm somehow not involved in the drama anymore she goes and talks to other people about the drama, it just doesn't show up in my reality, or people that just really were like not loving, not compassionate, don't love me for who I am, fade out of my life. And even the eating. I never had to force myself to eat healthy. Every single day, naturally crave healthier and healthier foods because I'm healing more things. I'm clearing more things and therefore coming into more self love. So then it's natural for me to do loving and nurturing things. And so when I eat really unhealthy food, I feel sick. And when I eat like really healthy food, I feel great. And then I just start to crave it more. Every single day it grows and grows. It's weird. Cause I used to eat every single meal, fast food. That was one of the like negative toxic things I guess I was doing. And I didn't have to force myself to eat healthy. It literally came naturally when I just started healing from depression and dissolving these dense energies that I was carrying.

PMD: 37:34

You're cultivating a new environment, internal environment, and you're realigning your inner community so that you have a clear straw so things can flow through it and you can be in flow. And that's part of your ongoing personal evolution because you're building, or you're continuing to build with what you've experienced and now the work that you are doing, which I believe I call it the holy work is that you are building an inner potency and that's so important for feminine energy is to have that inner potency and come from that space of shaping your agency and owning your sovereignty. That is so important. I see that you're doing that. I see that you are a powerful lady in your own right and the work that you're doing is just fantastic. If I look at the flip side of all of that, the people who might be feeling vulnerable, how did embracing vulnerability impact your sense of connection and belonging?

AK: 38:43

For a long time, I wasn't sharing what I truly think and truly believe. Because I feel like it's so different than what other people see and so it wasn't allowing me to really build close connections with anyone. Because I was always afraid that someone is not going to see things the way that I see things and that it's going to trigger me and then I'm going to feel more alone. Even when I'm connecting with someone, I'm going to feel alone. So it took a mixture of things. It took me realizing that I can connect with anyone and still feel joy and just because someone doesn't understand me doesn't mean that's not available for me. It just may not be this person that understands me, but I know I get to have my heart's desires. And those people show up in my life every day. New people that just naturally are aligned with me come in. I had to realize that I need to stop rejecting the people that are showing up in my life, because they were reflections of me. If I had friends that I'm like, oh, I can't be myself around them, I can't be vulnerable, I can't be my authentic self, I realized but these people are the ones that are showing up in my life right now, so they are the ones that are going to help me heal the most. So instead of rejecting and saying, I don't want friends like this, I want friends like that, that I can be myself around, I started receiving the friends that were showing up and what they were triggering in me. And the more I did that, I would heal the triggers. And then people that were more aligned with me came in, but I still didn't reject these other people because I still can connect with anyone and have joy and connection and I don't need to reject these people. And it's okay if they don't understand me and see things the same way as me because I can talk about those things with these other people. So it took me just welcoming my triggers when I was openly expressing myself with people and whatever that brought up for me the fear of being vulnerable, why? Because for me it brings up just a sense of aloneness, like no one understands me, I'm always going to be alone kind of thing. So that's what the energy was for me, it might be different for whoever is listening to this call. But you don't need to know what it is, as long as you welcome the triggers. when you're trying to connect and be vulnerable and authentic with another person it's going to come up and just welcome them and you'll clear what's in the way.

PMD: 40:51

So you're making a safe space for your vulnerability you're not exporting your power for external validation. You're actually owning that and coming out from that potency within yourself. You mentioned shame, what role did shame play in your battle with depression?

AK: 41:11

I think I was unaware of it, but it was a big part of it, because there was a lot of self judgment if I did anything, just anything that I thought I shouldn't have done oh my god, I would feel so much heaviness. And shame is the lowest frequency or the lowest consciousness on the human scale of consciousness. So most people would rather die than feel shame. Any emotion you're suppressing It stays stuck and then that's what creates depression is just that energy not moving. So yeah, me suppressing shame obviously was affecting the depression. I just didn't realize it was there because like most people, they'll do anything to avoid feeling it or admit that they're feeling it. They're like, I don't feel shame. What are you talking about? I'm confident. I didn't do anything wrong. Like they won't even allow themselves to know that they're carrying shame or unworthiness and I'm not good enough. Like they're not even going to admit it to themselves.

PMD: 42:06

How did sharing your story with others impact your relationship with shame?

AK: 42:10

Story with others. Ooh, I guess I share it like more like this. I guess I didn't really share it with the people that were close to me. I think there was some fear of being judged. One thing that did happen is so I've been doing all this work to heal myself, but then sometimes I still get triggered, right? Because that's natural. You're always healing. Healing is continuous, you're constantly expanding. And then I was getting triggered and then my family members could see that I was getting triggered and they were saying things to me like, I don't think anything you're doing is working. I don't think any of this natural mind body medicine stuff works because you're still getting triggered. And that brought up so much shame in me that I was like, Oh my God like everything I'm doing doesn't have value and worth like what I've committed my life to, what I'm helping people heal with. It has no value and worth my family's judging me and then I just realized if it triggers me that much, it's my own shame to clear. Otherwise it wouldn't trigger me that my family members said that thing. So obviously I was still carrying some shame that needed to be healed. So then I welcomed more of that shame and now it doesn't trigger me if someone says something like that to me, because. There isn't shame there to trigger, or at least, not right now. Maybe there's a deeper layer that needs to be met that will come up later, but yeah, it doesn't have the same trigger anymore because that layer of shame has been dissolved.

PMD: 43:31

Beautiful. Let's talk about the work that you do because we could talk a lot more about the depression that you experienced, and I think that's all really valid but I really want to talk about the work that you're actually doing now, because I think that your personal experience with depression I want to understand how has that shaped your approach to guiding others through their healing journey?

AK: 43:57

Oh, yeah. It's so different. First of all, one of the first things I do is try to get them to connect with their body's wisdom so they're not trying a million things that aren't what their body's asking for. Or, I try to get them to at least allow these choices to give them more clarity. So even if they're unclear on, I don't know if my wisdom's telling me to go see this therapist, I will guide them on how to use that experience to get more clarity so that they are connected to their wisdom, so in the future, now they know, okay, nothing really got created when I did that. That wasn't my body telling me to do that. Then we just start wiping the slate clean if they're trying a million supplements, medications, modalities we wipe the slate clean so we can really tune in what's your body actually asking for and bringing more awareness to what they're feeling instead of less. That's one of the key things. We're not going to spend the whole session just talking about your story and things like that because I'm already sensitive enough I can feel what's going on in your body. I don't actually need to hear the story other than to make you feel held. There really is no other reason for us to go into the story for the whole session, I'd rather spend time bringing awareness to what you're feeling so that we are moving energy right in the session so that it's not like I just give you tools in the session. What if later after the session you don't use them? I'd rather us use them together. So I know we shifted energy right there in the session, but one of the most powerful things that I actually think helps people heal is that I am the embodiment of what I'm sharing. So the healing actually happens before the session for a lot of people, because. I was exactly where these people were. I was in this consciousness of like shame and despair and hopelessness and fear. And I've dissolved a lot of those energies and come into a new consciousness of love, peace, and joy. So there's like a bridge of consciousness that I've created and that is in my body and it's constantly being emanated. Like people can feel it. So when people even resonate with working with me. It's because on some level they're asking for this and they're ready for this now. So they wouldn't even look at my page and resonate with it. They would be like, this is messed up. I don't understand this. I'm not going to do this. They're not going to resonate with me unless they're ready for this. So as soon as they choose to work with me, they've already chosen a higher consciousness. They've chosen beyond this. So healing usually starts to happen before the session even starts because I clear these energies within myself. So it's like I'm clearing them for the other person. I'm doing the work for you in a way I've created the bridge for you so that it's not as hard for you. A lot of people have trouble understanding how that can happen, but just think of it this way, someone who's not asking for true expansion in their life would not resonate with this work. Someone that maybe is carrying a lot of victim consciousness, and that gives them love and attention from other people, and they like it, and they don't really want to heal that to just have true unconditional love for yourself, that you don't have to have bad things happen to you to then receive love, that person wouldn't resonate with working with me. If they want to stay and no life is happening to me, I am a victim, that it's just hard for me, that's just the way it is, and they're not ready to move beyond it, they wouldn't resonate with this work. So something happens like immediately when people just choose beyond where they're at. They know it's available and they choose it rather than just Oh, nothing's available for me. And then they buy into that.

PMD: 47:26

When you cultivate an environment that maybe people can't tangibly see but can only see it through the lens of their story, because whilst the story may have validity to it at that time, it's no longer viable in terms of going forward. Because what I've noticed even in my practice, 95 percent of what someone says to me is BS. Yeah, I may hate it when I say that to them because all they're doing is getting a lot of mileage from their story and whilst it has a certain validity to it, it's no longer viable if they want to move forward. And like you said, Alicia, if someone's in denial, Good luck with trying to persuade them. It's not going to happen. They've got to disassociate from that and then they might be ready. But if they're in denial and you're trying to convince them or persuade them in some way, which blurs the line between facilitation and manipulation. And we have to be very careful about how we navigate that territory. It's very easy to slip over. So I think that's a really important thing that you've highlighted in terms of when somebody is ready, then they will recognize by a mutuality, by an understanding of energy, that there is a compatibility of alignment of what you're offering and what they're ready to step into. Yes. So that's a beautiful thing. What impact does your work have on the lives of clients and how does it contribute to your sense of fulfillment and purpose?

AK: 49:14

If we're talking about depression specifically, like a lot of people heal after the first session I'm not going to say that it's possible for everyone, because it depends on how much resistance you're in, how much willingness you have. But like people that book a package with me thinking I'm going to need the whole package to heal from depression a lot of the times what happens is after the first session, we meet two weeks later and they're like, that really isn't bothering me anymore. I want to talk about this other thing. This is my relationships, my career, what's going on over here. Energy can move so fast when you're in non resistance. That's why it's possible. I don't want to just like and your body already knows how to move energy when you're not resisting. It can move very quickly and you can start feeling joy right away and peace right away your natural state It's what's underneath the despair and the hopelessness and the fear and the shame It's just what's there. So that's why it's not meant to be super hard and complicated to take forever for you to feel more joy. So yeah, like it, it just is very fulfilling to know that these people don't have to struggle for five years like I did and it's not even me telling them, Oh, hey, this is what you need to do. This is what worked for me. So this is what you should do. It's empowering them. It's getting them connected to their own body. It's giving them the tools so that they know how every time they're triggered what to do, so that for the rest of their life, they don't have to live in fear about being triggered because they know what to do and they know what's happening for them. So they're more willing to welcome the triggers and everything that comes up for them. So yeah, it's just, it's very fulfilling and I love connecting with my clients and meeting people that are just like so ready for expansion because it's just exciting to know what's available in their life. Once they start clearing these other things, it's like way more than they thought was possible. Because maybe they think, oh, I'm just going to heal from depression and then go back to feeling that way I felt before. But no, it's not. You're going to be in a completely new energy, a new consciousness. Way more is available for you than just going back to your life before you had depression. Probably every area of your life is going to change. Your career, your relationships, everything will change. So it's just very exciting.

PMD: 51:17

And I understand you have a support group as well. A support group. Yeah. You've created a community is that right?

AK: 51:26

Like in my mentor's community there, she has her embracing health program and I mentor that community at least for the next little while but right now I'm doing more things on my own and starting to build my own community.

PMD: 51:37

What role does community and connection play for you?

AK: 51:42

I think it's really helpful to see that other people feel the same way as you. And I think it's really helpful even when just I share with the community the things that happen in my life and how I use these tools to move through it, because then it gives them like a tangible example for if they experience something very similar and they love the examples. So I just share very vulnerably with my community this is what happened to me. This is what triggered me. This is how I moved through it. So you can use the same tools and do the same thing.

PMD: 52:17

What impact does your support have on the lives of people who engage with you on the participants within community or individually? How does it contribute to their healing journeys?

AK: 52:32

They start healing for one. But I think it's more so the way they look at life is completely different after. It's more so I know everything is happening for me. So it's not this terrifying fear every time something happens that seems like it's the end of the world. It's Oh, okay. This is happening to show me that I'm carrying these energies and when I solve these energies, the problem goes away. So just like they have this tool with them forever that no matter what happens in their life, they know they can solve any problem in their life, not by just changing things on the outside. By knowing the power is I go within, I shift my energy, I shift my consciousness, and my world rearranges itself, and my problems get taken care of for me, or the solutions come in effortlessly when I do it this way. So they just see life differently, so they don't need to keep coming back to me and keep coming back to me because now they've had these tools. I'm pointing them back to their own wisdom and the power within themselves. So now they have that for the rest of their lives and they can move through anything that comes up in their life from now going forward.

PMD: 53:38

I'm deeply inspired by your journey and the profound wisdom. I think you've got wisdom from your head to your toes that you shared with us from the darkest moments of despair to your triumphant emergence into light and healing, your story really reminds me of the resilience of the human spirit, the transformative power of mind body healing. And your journey really serves as a beacon of hope for anyone struggling with depression or seeking to cultivate greater wholeness in their lives. Do you have any parting words and where can people find you?

AK: 54:18

Parting words, I'd say awareness is the medicine. Just become aware of anything you're doing that's resisting what you're feeling anything you do to distract and just have compassion for yourself if you're doing It's not oh, I notice it and now I beat myself up that I'm resisting No, just have compassion. Of course, like you said earlier, that's what people want to do right away. They don't want to feel what they're feeling. That seems like the easier thing to do is just distract so have compassion that there's a part of you that maybe has been in a ton of resistance and hasn't wanted to feel and this extreme heaviness and despair, of course you don't want to feel it. So have compassion for any way you've been in distraction, and start bringing more awareness to what you're feeling, even if it's just like little check ins throughout the day, because every time you bring awareness and you're not resisting what you're feeling, energy will move. So it will allow the healing to happen. Your body knows how to do this. So anything you can do to just bring more awareness to what you're feeling, I promise you is it's what moves the energy. It's not Oh, I'm going to feel it and then I'm going to wallow in it. I'm going to stay stuck there. There's a difference between welcoming and wallowing. Are you welcoming what you're feeling with love? Then it will move. And where can people find me? Is that what you said? Yeah. Yeah. So I have a website, alishakapani. com and I'm on different social media platforms. Facebook. I mostly play on Instagram. It's alicia underscore kapani. So that's where you can find me.

PMD: 55:48

That's great. And I want to move on to the last segment, which is what I call soul spotlight and it's really just to lighten the mood of a few fun questions for you and so one of the questions is if you had the power to instantly learn any skill or talent, what would you choose and how would you use it?

AK: 56:07

I would say I would want to max out on my intuition because i'm already intuitive But I want all my senses open because i'm really only clear cognizant and clairsentient right now like I get a knowing and I get a feeling but I don't see things I don't hear things and I don't allow myself to really know what I know because it's so scary. Part of me is so scared that if I had my intuition turned up to the max, my psychic abilities turned up to the max, I would feel like more of an outsider or something like that. I would see things that other people can't see, and I would be like, I would just feel so different and so alone. So I would love to move through those fears and I would love to open up all of my intuitive abilities and psychic abilities if I could just download it I would want that.

PMD: 56:54

If you could travel anywhere in the world right now, where would you go and what would you do there?

AK: 56:59

Maybe hawaii. I've just never been and i'm like a beach kind of person I love the warm weather

PMD: 57:04

And lastly if you were stranded on a desert island and you could only bring three items with you, what would they be and why?

AK: 57:11

Definitely things that will help me survive or help people find me. I don't know what that would be. Something to maybe build a cell tower to have connection or tools to start a fire. I don't know. That's a really tough one. It's okay. Yeah. Whatever it might be.

PMD: 57:31

Yeah maybe you can think on that one It's supposed to be fun, it's nothing really serious, but I want to thank you so much for being such a wonderful and engaging guest and sharing your wisdom and your vulnerability as well of that time in your life and now I see you as an agency of amplification for that light So that you could help others light up their own darkness in the midst of chaos so they can start to have a life where they can bring out coherence from chaos. So thank you so much.

AK: 58:09

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.