Made for More
Made for More
Healing from Toxic + Narcissistic Relationships with Kat Kalill
In this empowering episode of "Made for More," Reagan and guest, Katherine Kalill, explore the profound topic of toxic and narcissistic relationships. Together, they delve into the shadows of these challenging dynamics, shedding light on the pain and struggles many individuals face. Katherine shares her personal journey of healing and resilience, offering invaluable insights into finding hope and strength after surviving toxic relationships.
Listeners will gain a deeper understanding of the patterns and behaviors associated with toxicity, as well as practical tips on navigating the path to recovery. The conversation is not just about surviving but thriving beyond the scars left by toxic relationships. Join us for a candid and compassionate discussion that aims to inspire and encourage those who have experienced the darkness of toxic and narcissistic connections.
By sharing these experiences, they aim to light the path for any woman seeking to find her power and place in the world, encouraging a community where empathy thrives and every victory, big or small, is a cause for celebration. Join Reagan and Kat for this heartfelt episode, and may you leave feeling empowered to radiate love and strive for more in every aspect of your life.
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Hello, sweet friends, welcome to another episode of Made For More the podcast. My name is Regan. If we have not met yet and I am so thankful that you're here and even if we have met my people that have been listening since day one. I love you, I see you, I appreciate you and seriously, when you guys send a message or share the podcast on your story, like what that means to me, just I can't even explain it. So I appreciate you more than you know and I love you so much.
Speaker 1:So if you have not gone back and checked out some of the episodes from the last month, they have been incredible. Looking at the views from them or the listens I guess not the views, but views would be fun if we did video. I need to do that. I need to. Okay, maybe that's my next thing, but looking at the downloads and the listens from that, they have been some of the highest ones, which is so cool to see because the podcast is just a little passion project. It's fun and I love getting to have fun conversations with people. So, but we had Madeline Mahmoud, which she is one of my clients. She talks about her story with binge eating and overeating and we walk through the periodization of her nutrition. I want to say she's like 60 or 70 pounds down now, which is literally insane. Cece Lutz, who is one of my dear friends from Nashville, talks about joy purpose and her health journey as well, and it's she's so bubbly and so fun and just so encouraging. You're not. You're not going to be able to listen to that episode and not smile.
Speaker 1:I did a little solo episode and then last week's episode was with Haley Adams, which was so fun to be able to talk with Haley and just chat with her and she shares about her time stepping away from CrossFit for the past, from the past year, and then her plans for this year with the open, and she shares if she's going to compete in the open and try to go to the games this year again. So all the exciting things very like. It's crazy that I got to just have such amazing people on the podcast, so I am so thankful for that. And I have three, three this week, three more podcasts Brian Pollard, jack Driscoll and then Brooke Wells, who's actually going to be the only coming out next week. So I am pumped. All of the fun things, all of the fun things. But I cannot believe it is February, or almost February.
Speaker 1:I mean seriously next week, which is crazy. So I hope you guys are sticking with the goals that you started and just celebrating those small goals and building confidence through that as well. But anyways, enough of me doing a little intro, we don't need any more of that. Let's get into this week's episode. This week is with one of my dear friends, catherine Kalil. We've actually only met one time, when I was in Nashville, and we have kept up.
Speaker 1:I swear some of the best people and some of my best friends are from social media. There's a little baby crying outside. You can probably hear him, but I've been through social media and Catherine is one of them. She is an enneagram to a lover girl, the best heart in the whole world, just a genuine, real person, and I'm telling you she's doing incredible things in the fitness industry and she lives in Austin and she's just radiates joy and radiates love and I know you're going to be able to fill this through this episode.
Speaker 1:I do want to kind of give a little bit of a trigger warning, I guess with this episode we do talk about toxic relationships, narcissistic relationships and yeah, so we do talk about that. If that's like triggering to anyone, I do just want to put that out there, but this was just such a beautiful episode of Catherine's story even though it was heartbreak and heartache and traumatizing, just seeing her on the other side of it, I'm so proud of her, I'm so thankful for her and she's just probably one of the best people that I know and I cannot wait to hug her next soon. But excited for you guys to listen to this one and let's get into it. Kat, what is up?
Speaker 2:Hello, how are you?
Speaker 1:Bestie that I've actually only met one time by Instagram Bestie.
Speaker 2:I know, but who I wouldn't have gotten through the last year of life without to be honest.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. I know this is kind of like our little catch up, I know, I know. We were talking for a bit, and then we both got busy by keeping up with each other on social media.
Speaker 2:Yeah, social media makes you feel, I think, sometimes, like you like have been like calling enough your friends enough, even though you probably haven't. You've just been like seeing their life through a screen. So it makes you feel like you have. I've had to be better about that lately. I know I saw you were doing this and it's like, well, that's not really like me catching up with you so. I know.
Speaker 1:I've like made it, tried to make it a goal of like FaceTiming one to two friends weekly just to say hi and catch up. It's a good goal, that's a good goal.
Speaker 2:For sure.
Speaker 1:Thanks for being on the podcast today for people listening. We have been trying to plan this for a bit because Catherine's just like you're going to learn today an incredible human and seriously like probably one of the best people that I know that just has a heart of gold. Um, but I texted her yesterday and was like, okay, we got to play in the podcast. And she said, okay, how about tomorrow? I'm like let's do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we um make a time, but we are doing the dang thing finally. So I'm excited that you even want me to be on your podcast.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, that's the coolest. I was thinking last night. I'm like we can split this up into like four different episodes.
Speaker 2:I know, I know. Yeah, there's a lot of ground to cover. Very versatile girls over here, yes, and through the ringer, some of it are false. This, the universe, seven mile.
Speaker 1:But so for people listening, can you give like a little elevator pitch on cats and this week I'll brag on you is your taper week for your marathon and she's been training so hard for it.
Speaker 2:Yes, um. So yeah, I am, I'm 24. I grew up in Massachusetts and then my dad passed away when I was in college, um very suddenly as a result of complications with COVID, and so my mom moved to Nashville. She like sold everything I had and moved to Nashville to be with my older sister, which is where I met Reagan Um, and I got into CrossFit in college. So that was kind of like where the fitness stuff started and became a coach my junior year of college after my dad had passed Um, and I'm really grateful for that, because I think CrossFit really built my kind of fitness foundation which has propelled me into the arena that I'm in now. Um. So yeah, now I live.
Speaker 2:I moved to Austin, texas, um shortly after I graduated and worked in technology sales and hated it, but um with making good money and then eventually God had me laid off on purpose, I think, um and I sort of just found myself. Um found myself kind of searching for more Um. You know, with this being the made for more podcast, I, I think I found myself um like wanting more for for myself outside of uh, just a path that I wasn't really sure I wanted to go down in the first place. So, um, ended up like getting into marathon running. I started training for my first one last March and then raised my first one in June.
Speaker 2:Had was not a runner, I hated running, um, and then ended up doing an ultra and then ran another marathon in October and then I'm running this other one.
Speaker 2:So four, four and a year, which is ridiculous, um, but have fallen in love kind of with the process of training and, um, yeah and it's, it's been a blast. So that's kind of where I'm at now and I'm literally the most confused, not sure what I'm going to do with my life. I'm like 24 year old you'll ever meet. But I've realized the more honest that I've been about like feeling that way that, um, there's a lot kind of of other you know, younger people who feel the same and just maybe don't say it as openly as I do. So, um, and then committed to the bit of like trying to grow social media and, you know, trying to potentially build a career for myself in the wellness space, um, not too long ago, pretty much after the Chicago marathon, and started doing these women crush Wednesday interviews, which have been really cool, and finding my purpose in lifting up, um, the voices of other women. So, um, that's kind of the thing that brings me the most joy, and um where I'm at right now.
Speaker 2:So I love watching those women, well, I want to do one with you, but we have to plan our our trip somewhere, or I just got to come out to you and we should do one, but we will plan one, but I won like just hearing your story.
Speaker 1:I feel like there is more for you and these things keep being put on your heart for a reason. Like I'm just such a believer that if something is put on your heart and it does not go away, like the Lord has it there for a purpose and I don't know. I'm just like believing that for you this year. So I'm excited to see where it goes. Thank, you.
Speaker 2:I'm excited for you too. It's going to be a big year for everybody. I think, like stuff feels different in the sense that, like I feel like every year I go into it and I'm like this is going to be the year that I do this, that and the other, and, honestly, this year I feel like I went into it. I'm like you know what, like I have some big goals, but I'm not going to put that much pressure on myself this year.
Speaker 2:Like I want. I want God to like show me the way and to have it be this sort of natural evolution of like you know, I don't really he knows what's going to happen. I don't so like kind of just letting it come and surrendering in that sense, which is exciting.
Speaker 1:Yes, what made you so? Obviously, when you can see the joy that you have inside of doing your women crush Wednesdays and obviously I mean I feel like you have become just from what I've seen from social media, and social media is like a very you know it can make it look like whatever it is, but I can genuinely see like you are someone that is stepping up inside of the fitness community in Austin, which is really cool to see and I definitely have FOMO for all the events that you guys do. But do you still like I mean and obviously Micaela and you have help inside of that and support but do you feel like there's a lot of women stepping up in the fitness community in Austin, like, since you've started speaking out about it more and doing events? Like, have you seen a rise inside of that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I wasn't even the first Like there have been. So it's interesting when I hosted that run, when I hosted that event with Rad, it was early December and it was like a women's run walk and I had been feeling like on my heart that there needed to be more spaces for girls to just come together and like have an opportunity to share stories and have a safe space and connect with each other. And that event, rad, was like incredible because they just sponsored it, helps pay for everything and made sure it was an incredible experience. And all these girls came out and at the end they were like can we do this again next month? And it was cool for me because it was like that's how you create a space that people can come to and like truly feel they can just be themselves and they can just not have to put on a face or not have to be worried about, like if they're just going to walk in or whatever, and we can all just kind of share our experience. And the thing I've learned about women that fires me up is most of our experiences are actually pretty similar. We just don't always share them with each other and we should more often. So I think that was eye-opening to me. As far as the running space goes, because there really isn't like there's hot girl walks, which is cool, and there's, I think, hot girl golf is another thing that they have here in Austin, but like there's not really anything specific to like the endurance space. The cool thing about running is anyone can throw on a pair of sneakers and go for a run if they want to. There's no like prerequisites to being athletic in any capacity, really. So I hope that you know we're starting this women's run crew and I hope that with that, more women will start to come out and be like, yeah, like we want to do more female centered events. There have been a couple. There's something called Warrior Woman in Austin. It's really cool that this girl, danielle, leads, and but there's incredible female leaders here.
Speaker 2:I'm one of many, I guess, and I think for me, the reason it even all came about is because I felt like I was in all these spaces that were just dominated by male voices that didn't understand like my body and how I needed to train to be optimal for myself and my hormones, and also on top of that there was like a lot of toxic masculinity and stuff that I was just kind of like I am sick of this, like why am I competing with these guys that are doing all this crazy stuff?
Speaker 2:And really most of them, honestly hot take, just need to go to therapy or something and like work through it, not in a fitness way, but like an emotional way. So, yeah, I feel like I hope that more women will like feel comfortable taking ownership of our space that we take, and I hope that that's something I'm inspiring. But, yeah, there's actually pretty much nothing that lights me up more than having the opportunity to like interview people and share the cool stories of all the girls that I get to interact with and that I'm inspired by. So it's definitely been fruitful and hopefully is starting a little bit of a chain reaction. So we'll see.
Speaker 1:That's incredible On your Instagram too. You've definitely. I mean, have you always been a vulnerable person, like emotional, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:I have. I'm a softy, I'm a cancer. I don't really know if that means much to anyone.
Speaker 1:Is that like? Are you an Enneagram too?
Speaker 2:I honestly have never done it in an Enneagram test but people do tell me that that's probably you yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm an Enneagram too and like I feel like especially with which we'll get into this later but attracting toxic men or being attracted to toxic men usually like take advantage of impacts and Enneagram to use and all the things. But since you've started speaking out cause like you're very vulnerable and very real on social media have you had other women and other people just reach out and say like, oh my gosh, thank you for sharing this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have a lot actually which has been like the reason that I've even social media is hard, like trying to grow social media and like consistently have good engagement or whatever. The things that you need to really be able to make social media business are really hard to achieve, honestly, and I think it's almost harder sometimes. It's interesting because when I look at it, I'm like I feel like the people who like really make it in social media are people who are really authentic. But it takes a lot longer to get there at this point because there's so many fish in the sea and like so many options and all the things. So, but I've made it like it's personal to me to be able to really really be honest about like wherever I'm at.
Speaker 2:And yeah, it's been cool, like some girls that I know from you know elementary school or like college that like they were way cooler than me in college, that are like messaging me, like telling me to keep going, and you know people who I don't know even like messaging and saying like your story through this has helped me, like it's really cool, not because really I feel like I'm adding necessarily any value or like I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think it's more so just it's interesting, it's crazy how, being honest and like just allowing a level of vulnerability, my mom is always slapping my wrist, like Catherine, like you don't need to share that on the internet, and I'm like, well, but like you do, though, because someone has to, otherwise we're all just going to keep going through all this stuff and like not talking about it and it's important. So, yes, that happens and I'm really grateful for it. But, honestly, the girls who come to me about those kinds of things, like that's the only reason that I care to keep going and like care to keep being vulnerable, because being vulnerable can be embarrassing and hard sometimes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and shame, I think, sometimes can come with it too. I mean, I think about vulnerability inside of, like disordered eating or struggling with this. It's like, yeah, you're a, you're a leader in the fitness space, like you, you shouldn't struggle with this, or you shouldn't have issues with your relationship with food, or you help people through that. And it's like, no, like I still struggle, like I'm a human. But yeah, I think that's the purpose behind it, because it's easy to create these little silly roles of like a training video or workout video or a recipe, but those are so surface level and it's the ones that are vulnerable and you're crying and talking about hard things that I think draw people in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's interesting though, because it's like as a coach, it's so easy for me to look at these girls who are messaging me, or to look at you as like one of my good friends and say, like Reagan, like you're beautiful and like I don't know how you could ever think that about yourself, or like you know it's so easy for me and I'm sure you probably have this experience but to give advice to other people or to tell other people that like they're amazing and they're beautiful, but for whatever reason, it's not always that easy, especially in a very critical space like Instagram or TikTok or whatever to feel that way about yourself.
Speaker 2:So the validation from other people is like needed, and for me I don't. It is from women, like that's the validation that I like feel the most empowered by. But yeah, I mean, none of us really have it together. I think it's all just kind of. You know, we're figuring it out as we go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that. You said that about the validation of. I am a words of affirmation person. Yeah, and just like having someone message you say, hey, like when you shared this, this really helped me. Like it doesn't have to be anything in depth, but I would encourage anyone that's listening to this, like if you listen to someone's podcast or you relate with one of their posts I mean it doesn't have to be me, it doesn't have to be cat, but like seriously, just shoot them a message, because I remember so many messages that were just simple and probably took someone like five seconds to write, but it like it, it fills my heart and it kind of makes me think like okay, I'm fine, like it helps someone. And so if you're listening to this and you have someone on your heart or something on your heart, like I would encourage you to just shoot on that 10 second voicemail or I agree, message or something Kind words can go a really, really long way.
Speaker 2:It's honestly incredible how you know, we think things like you.
Speaker 2:So I always think to myself like this girl is beautiful or this thing is beautiful and I'm actually really good about saying it out loud. I like to because I like to make other people feel special but yeah, we all should do that more. Because it's like I feel like we think it's going to be weird if we like compliment someone, but people need, like, need that, like that's how we keep things kind of going, keep confident in ourselves when maybe we're not sure. Like there have been multiple times in my journey where I'm like what am I even doing this for?
Speaker 2:And then I you know, get a message like that and it's like, okay, wait, it's this girl that you're doing it for whatever, which is really cool.
Speaker 1:So more random compliments.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, random compliments are the best. Yeah, genuine compliments, even to random people. You don't have to know them, but like he likes someone's shirt, tell him you like their shirt. Like it's like, that's great.
Speaker 1:Yes, no, I love that. I'm here for that. I always like try to make it even like go into the grocery store or something hey, how's your day? Or hey, you have a really good skin or is there whatever. So I love it, I'm here for it. One thing that I that you've said, that you've mentioned it's easier for like you to look at someone else and say you deserve, like, so much more than this or you know, like you do, giving them compliments and being able to recognize that in other people but not seeing it inside of yourself. Is that. Has that showed up inside of your life, like relationally? Or?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you know the T.
Speaker 1:Like. How do you like?
Speaker 2:dig it, just see it like you're transiting it has. Yeah, I'm inherently a giver and I love making people feel loved, like that is my love language. I don't know if that's even a love language, but like I love making other people feel special, I love having people in my house and making them dinner and, like you know, checking up on them. I also think it's kind of a cultural thing to a degree, like I'm Lebanese and so like I grew up in a family and in a home where, like everybody and my mom too, just the way that she was, she was grew up in the South. So you know that hospitality piece of just like wanting to make everyone comfortable and and it's one thing that I love so much about myself is that I love loving people. But it's also one thing that I think I struggle with the most in terms of just trying to navigate that like in a dating scenario, because I get excited and I get I believe things and I kind of fall into these things sometimes that I find myself in difficult situations where I have I've learned a lot.
Speaker 2:I don't feel like I'm really on that path anymore, but and it's been that way since I've been really, really young, so I don't know if you know this piece, but when I was my like first relationship in high school and I haven't really spoken much about it openly like in a forum like this was a pretty toxic and difficult relationship.
Speaker 2:I only recently told my mom like the truth kind of about what happened, and so now I'm comfortable sharing it. But I was, there was some sexual assault and emotional and physical abuse like early, and I feel like in that relationship I really lost and it was stuff I didn't come to terms with until I just got an eating disorder the end of high school and had started having all these other problems and, like then a therapist was, like you know, digging into the past and that's when we realized, kind of, where all that trauma was surfacing. But I feel like it was that age that I really lost my ability to speak for myself, like in relationship settings, and became just so concerned and consumed with making the other feel comfortable and happy and loved that I like started disregarding. If, like, I too was comfortable and happy and loved and that has been a pattern in relationships for me ever since. That's been like really hard to work through.
Speaker 1:So yeah, Thank you for sharing that, and I know a lot of people listening can relate to that too. What do you know kind of where that stems from or where? I guess? After that relationship do you feel like you've been drawn to the same type of behavior and like same type of people, as far as like putting yourself on the back burner and just trying to make them happy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it always catches me off guard I had a great relationship through college. It was a young relationship and it was dumb, like we'd get drunk and like fight and like stupid things and we didn't know what love was. But even at the time, like we you know, I even with him, like he was a football player and I was like so concerned with like being the little football wife and like taking care of everything he needed and making sure he had like snacks and was at every game and all the things. And he was young.
Speaker 2:So it wasn't that he like didn't care to do the same for me, but he was just like a boy that was like 18 and was like oh, this is sick, Like I have a girl who will literally do everything for me. I look back at it all and I get to be friends to this day and I'm like I was. I did too much Like I don't know what.
Speaker 1:I was giving you wife treatment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you did not deserve that, respectfully but also like I made a lot of mistakes and was super, you know, had a lot to learn about how to not be possessive or how to not be jealous and things like that that I've had to work through, which I think is normal for a relationship around that age. But for the most part, I would say, other than him. Pretty much a lot of the guys that I've been drawn to have been consistently guys who maybe like feel like they might be a chase or maybe, like in the last scenario, didn't feel like a chase at all. I was actually not interested really for a while, but like felt like someone who I could fix or help or like offer that heart to and who could really like use it. And I think there's a part of it that's like a dominance thing, like I like to feel I'm a strong woman, so I like to feel like I'm in the presence of a strong man but a strong man and like narcissism can unfortunately be kind of intermixed at times.
Speaker 2:So you have to be careful that, like, the strong man that you're seeking and after is still maintaining other qualities and things that actually are softer at the same time and like aren't just egotistical or self-centered. And that's been a hard thing for me to discern up until I would say. Now I feel like I'm like entering a new part of understanding healthy masculinity and like healthy dominance versus like toxic masculinity and control, which is obviously different.
Speaker 1:So yeah, the more that I've been, I've been like listening to podcast on narcissism here recently and it definitely, like you said, comes across as just a very masculine man who is, you know, like at first everything seems so great, but then the more that you get on the other side of it, like you realize it's actually just an insecure like little boy in there, which I think is hard, because it for me, like that breaks my heart even more because it's like you do you try to see this, the child side of them. But it's also like you I mean, I know that you know this like setting those boundaries of like I like it is not my job to help you and it's not my job to fix you because, for the sake of yourself, like you're losing yourself inside of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it's also really hard when you're a hopeful person like and I struggle with this a lot because I've always been since I've been little and I think my relationship with my faith and stuff has something to do with this too but I always say, like always, look for the signs. I've made posts about this. I will take everything and anything as a sign from up above, like if that's what I need, that day I'm like I don't even care, I'm taking it.
Speaker 2:So, I've had some situations that really have felt like that and some that maybe I've been like really reaching for, like a hopeful miss. But I think in dating I have this level of like a hopefulness that I struggle with too, where I fall in love with the idea of what someone could become and not who they're showing me that they are, and I fall in love with the idea of, like, you know, making that purse, like getting that person to the realization, which, unfortunately, with narcissism, like the reality of it, is that you literally never will, because they aren't able physically, emotionally, like they don't have the EQ to be able to, you know, take that in and really try to listen to whatever it is that you're like trying to get them to see. Like they're not going to see it. It's a one track mind kind of scenario.
Speaker 2:So that's been tricky for me, I think, because I love the idea of people and things and, like I love the idea of helping, like being a part of selfishly like this is my selfish tendency it's like being a part of getting that person to like who I think they can be, which would be like this amazing figure, this amazing man for me, or, you know, whatever, and it's like, at a certain point, one of the hardest parts it's grief really is having to like grieve that and like let go of the idea, you know, of the hopefulness that maybe, just maybe, like they'll see, or they'll get to a point that they can really, you know, be who you had hoped that they'd be.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think we're the same person.
Speaker 2:I think we've already figured this out.
Speaker 1:So in because I know you've said like you've been a part of a few toxic relationships like what's. Also, I forget that you're 24.
Speaker 2:Like.
Speaker 1:I seriously feel like you're like 28 or 20 just like from a maturity perspective, which is a good thing, but have you like what are some traits that you've seen in toxic relationships that you look back on and you're like, okay, wow, I definitely miss this?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the thing is that I almost never miss it actually in retrospect and I think that that's been the biggest takeaway for me is like women have incredible intuitions and I I mean, we are mothers like we, like you, have to think about it. Think about your mom. Okay, yeah, my mom knew I was doing something wrong before. Like I thought I was keeping the biggest secret from my mom, or you know, like I thought my mom was going to bed and I was coming in a little late. Like my mom was awake every night until I got home. Like my mom knew, knew, for example, with sex, with the sexual assault scenario. Like she was. Like Catherine, I've known all your life. Like I just was waiting for you to be ready to like talk to me about it, kind of. And like we have intuition that is as a result, I think, of our maternal instincts and things like that, and we've just been taught to not trust it.
Speaker 2:And I think the biggest thing for me through this last scenario that I was in, is that, like if you have a bad feeling, sis, that is a bad feeling and it is not to be ignored.
Speaker 2:Like, and I think I like to see the good in people and I like to like again fall in love with this idea or a hopefulness, and it makes me go back on my, my initial gut instincts, and I think so.
Speaker 2:Some things that I've learned are specific things to look out for and it's hard because you know it's like who we want to be, how we want to be treated, is exactly how the narcissist is going to treat you at the beginning. Like you know, you're going to be love bombed. It's going to be a portion of time where you are sharing with them all of your hopes and dreams and they are making it happen or they're making it feel like the world is in their hand and they can connect you with this person and they can, you know, and they're going to show you the way this way, and I think there's like an idolization, part of it that comes in like early on in a narcissistic relationship that you have to catch and be careful of. I mean for me at this point, like my only real, true idol is God and like that's. You have to come back to that in your head.
Speaker 2:And if someone is making you idolize them in such a way that that's like getting confusing for you, then like that's a red flag. But so I think, first of all, trusting your gut, second of all, pacing and like taking things slowly, and taking things so slowly that maybe it would make someone who is in our system that we're uncomfortable, because that will help you see some true colors. I think also another thing early on to kind of look out for is if they're interested in you really, like if they're really asking you conversation or if they're really asking you questions about yourself, or they ask you questions about yourself so that they can turn it back to themselves Like again the example of like, so like, who are you, what do you want to be like? And then it's like this empathetic oh, thank you so much for opening up to me Whatever, like this, what you want to hear. But then that what you want to hear is immediately followed by what they were hoping to get out of that conversation.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 2:I think just really paying attention to like those kind of conversational cues is huge, because I look back at my situation from earlier this year and I'm like yo, there was never a time, honestly, that anything was about really me. Like he was comfortable coming to my house and all of those things early on, and then once it shifted, it was like well, if I wasn't at his house, if I wasn't meeting him where he wanted me to be, like we weren't, we weren't going to see each other, so like he didn't actually really care about seeing me. He just like wanted to be in control of what I was doing and where I was at, and so things like that I think are worth paying attention to. Also, like another big one is what? What does that?
Speaker 2:Not that people can't change from their exes, but like women who have been through traumatic scenarios and who have been through, just like I just outgrew, this relationship, or this relationship didn't work for the most part. I would like to think you know we're not out here trashing our exes just because they're. You know we hate them because they didn't love us anymore or whatever. We're only really sharing our true stories and so and that's not always true, but I think you're better off if you position yourself and trust you know other people's experiences, especially if there has been like multiple yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 1:I was just talking to my roommates last night and she was like all right now we know moving forward. Like the lesson is is that early on, if you have a random people reaching out to you or rent girls, like multiple, you have to trust them. Like, like you said, girls are not. I mean, there's some girls out here that are probably like like he did this and like just jealous, like don't want you to date him. But, like you said, it goes back to your gut instinct, Like you can tell if someone's trying to be manipulative or you know like has poor intentions with it, but if it is happening multiple times, like you, something's going on.
Speaker 2:What happens like what happens is they get you to this place of you are always your fight or flight. Our fight or flight is, as women, like a defense mechanism, is thinking about the good times.
Speaker 2:So if a narcissist can take you to the best of places, like emotionally early in a relationship. You're always going to go back to it's like don't it's, it's like a drug, literally like the way that it breaks down in your brain is like a drug. You crave that feeling that you once had and like your vision is just completely jaded. So if it's happening early enough that you like haven't had the tug of like, well, this is your fault, and then you're.
Speaker 2:You have that guilt ridden feeling or whatever, like you pay attention to those really early moments and like pacing it out and you know, listening to what other people's experiences have been, because I mean people can change, but for the most part like they don't really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like if you're a 30 or something, you're old man's, like a 30. Yeah, oh man, like you're not going to change, no, yeah.
Speaker 2:You're too far gone there was a.
Speaker 1:there was a study done.
Speaker 1:I was thinking about this yesterday when we were chatting and thinking about my life but there was two rats in a study and there was one rat that, like in a Kate, they were both in cages by themselves but every time it pressed its food lever, food would come out.
Speaker 1:So it truly only pressed it when it was hungry because it knew that a treat was gonna come out. And then the other rat or mouse or whatever animal it was, every time it would press the lever, sometimes food would come out, sometimes food wouldn't come out and it wasn't like every other time, like maybe it would weigh like five presses before food came out again. And then you know it was very inconsistent and it drove that rat to death because of the inconsistency and the stress that it was putting on its nervous system. Which makes me think about like toxic relationships and like narcissism, is that push and pull, that it's addicting and you just wanna keep pressing that lever of like. Am I gonna get it today? Am I gonna get it? Like that doping me and like it literally drives you insane. Like it drives you crazy.
Speaker 2:Like it's a slot machine you never know what you're gonna get, but it might be a million dollars and if it's a million, if it's that million dollars that you remember like that is like I want it so bad. And it's interesting too because, like to that point, when you are in a toxic relationship or scenario or with a narcissist or whatever, like your body is stressed and that, I think, has been a really fascinating transition for me. My skin like was horrible. I was carrying this like extra blow. My period cramps were keeping me up like all night long. My body was like rejecting, rejecting, rejecting, and I just wasn't listening. And when the minute like we ended, I lost like five or six pounds of just like blow weight and like looked at everyone was like Kather, you're glowing, like what happened? No, no, no.
Speaker 2:I'm like nothing, like nothing happened, I just let go of the thing that was hurting me. And it's interesting because they say, like emotional abuse is physical abuse, because, like, maybe if someone isn't physically hurting you yet, or they haven't yet or maybe they never would, but like the way that your body reacts literally takes years, like off of your life. So it's like your body knows, you know the body keeps score or whatever try to. You know, pay attention to the way that, like, your emotions are impacting your physical body even so.
Speaker 1:That is so true. I definitely think it shows up in your gut very prominently too, of like just bloating and that extra inflammation and that water weight. So, yeah, our body knows sometimes more than we do inside of things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's also with stuff like that. If, like, eventually, there comes a point in a relationship like that where you're just kind of going through the motions, like waiting for the opportunity to leave, and I think you, what I realized is you really have to like take agency in those situations and like, even though it feels like it's gonna be the most impossible thing, like you just it's cold turkey or nothing, like you just have to X or O. Unfortunately, there's no like nice way to do it, which is really hard but yeah, especially because you're such a kind person too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it feels like death, like it feels like this person that you've loved and like wanted so much with and for is dying because essentially, they need to die in your life for you to be able to just like move forward. But that process, like you grieve the no contacts, like whatever it may be, it is grief, it is a form of grief and like acknowledging it as that is really important.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, before we did the podcast. I follow this. It's the holistic psychologist on Instagram. I'm sure you've seen her stuff, but there literally was a post about narcissism, so I just screenshot it, like some of the traits it says. I'm gonna read them off just in case, like people are listening. But people with high levels of narcissistic traits and I, it says like we all have a little bit of narcissism and that's like cause.
Speaker 1:We're all just selfish beings, but they become reactive anytime they're uncomfortable. They say things like sorry, I'm the worst person on earth with shame-based reactions, shut down or dominate conversations with a desire for control, blame everyone around them without self-reflection, have a string of chaotic or codependent relationships, and they only vent to people who validate their views to strengthen the belief of I'm not the issue.
Speaker 2:So they also flip switch really fast. One thing I noticed in the last situation was like if I would be like really up in arms about something and like create distance, like I started to distance myself, that's when he would be like it's not worth it, like to fight about this. Like let's just I love you. Like no ownership, no, nothing. Like no validation of my feelings, just like let's just move on and make you forget. I'm gonna make you forget about it now, kind of thing. Instead of like so being able to communicate your feelings and like, even if you aren't agreeing, that's a big thing. Like there is no rainbow on the other side, suddenly Like there's, the thunderstorm has to happen first. That's what fighting is, you know.
Speaker 1:So that's another, I think, a big one too but so since you were able to because I mean I remember, like when you were moving through this, I think we kind of started talking a little bit more towards the end of it but just like hearing how just upset, which was so valid, but like you were breaking, how like walk us through that Cause, I can't even imagine how you felt, and I mean, did you? Were there points that you were like this isn't even worth it, like how, am I gonna live.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was suicidal actually, and I started therapy and I'm very blessed to have a mom and a sister that like saw what was happening without me. They were seeing it when I wasn't seeing it. Basically, like, how it all went down at first was I had my first marathon and this person was very involved in that process for me, and so they basically like told me they weren't gonna come if I didn't, if I didn't commit to being like their exclusive girlfriend. After, like only a week before, we had had a very big, scary scenario, incident, argument, situation that I was like, oh man, I need to draw back. So basically, it was given a controlling ultimatum which I'm not against ultimatums, don't get me wrong but in this situation it was a manipulative one and I like, had I just started? I like I mentally, I've never felt myself break like that before Like I couldn't control my tears, I couldn't control my body, I couldn't physically get out of bed, like I was just not okay. So eventually he like saw that I was down and he loved it, like that's what he wanted, and so he ended up coming to the marathon and somehow the entire marathon kind of became about him. And after that, like a couple of my friends met him my closest friends and they were like what are you doing? They saw it immediately because every conversation was like I had just done this thing that I was super proud of and he's all about like what he was doing, kind of. So that was like a good wake up call for me.
Speaker 2:But it got hard after that. It got complicated. I lost my job shortly after that, which was was then defenseless and I didn't have anything that I had to be doing or had to be at, and so at that point he like stepped in even more and if I wasn't with him, it was like well, what are you doing? Like whatever. So I broke yeah, like fully. Like at that point after I lost my job I would say beginning of end of June, beginning of July, it was right before my birthday and I didn't wanna be here anymore because it was like, no matter what I did, I couldn't be enough for this person who I knew really wasn't good for me and every conversation I would have with, like my mom and my sister.
Speaker 2:It's really hard for people who are out of it to be like well, girl, like just leave, like you just need to break up with them. And it's like it's never that simple, because in your head you feel stuck, and I wasn't stuck. Like what I had to come to is the realization that, like I hold my power, but that was so lost on me because my whole world became his, like I was just a facet in his world, so I didn't even know who I was. Like I was living without a job and all I had really was the attention that I was giving to him and to us and to that whole scenario. So I broke and my sister and my mom and my friends, my sweet friends like you included kind of swept in and carried me.
Speaker 2:And it was women who carried me, because the hardest part too with narcissism is like you're trying to tell people what's happening to you, but like people don't like really do anything about it. Like I would say, like this person is hurting me, this person is doing this, but if that person, who was usually honestly like a public figure of some sort, is helping this person who I'm telling like well, unfortunately we live in this world where a lot of the time, like we're all just looking for our next opportunity and he's positioned himself to be that guy. So I felt like I was losing it.
Speaker 2:Like I actually felt like I was going insane and nobody was seeing it and it was really hard. So, luckily for me, I was able to get connected with some women of his past and I was able to just be carried by women who believed me, and that was the thing that made all the difference. And so like that's why at this point in my life like I commit on such a level too, like if someone comes to me and tells me like they're being hurt or someone's hurting them, like I won't even question it honestly, because it's like knowing how scary of a place I was in. If I didn't find the right people at that time to be able to start rebuilding my identity, I wouldn't be here anymore for sure.
Speaker 2:So I ended up going out and running this ultramarathon in August with an incredible group of people and one girl who actually had just been through a narcissistic, abusive relationship, and she just empowered me and I got out there and I ran for myself for the first time and I ran 32 miles or whatever, in the middle of nowhere, and it was like the most liberating experience. It was like the most liberating, I swear, that day, like my heart just changed, Like something came over me where I was like Catherine, like you never needed him and you don't need him now, and like you have the ability, like you can say no. I've always struggled with that and I don't know. It's just like. Eventually I got to that point where I was like I know what I deserve. And after that there were some falters, for sure, but for the most part I separated myself and went no contact and I moved forward and it was not as scary. It was scary in the sense that even to this day, when I see this person or whatever, like I have a shock that comes over me, like I break down. But it was scary in the sense of like the process of the thought of letting go was a lot scarier than actually doing it.
Speaker 2:So once I did like I rebuilt and I was like, oh, people still love me. Like I was so scared that I was gonna lose all of this community and all this stuff. But what it taught me was that people still love me, yes, but also the people who see me and who believe me and who truly like support me, those are the people I wanna be with anyway. Like I don't need to have a multitude of friends and like all this stuff. Like I wanna have the people who like really really have my back. And so it was a lesson of who really keeping your circle kind of tight and who do you really wanna be around.
Speaker 2:And for me it was people who really supported me. And by that, like unfortunately, a lot of the time for me it means like they're not engaging with this guy, Like they are kind of choosing to engage with me or like we all kind of moved on and life goes on and you find other groups and other people and whatever. So it was a big story of coming back to power. And now a big part of why I do what I do with women in my community is because I felt empowered by women and I don't want women to ever feel like we need to shrink ourselves ever again and like I'm never gonna shrink myself again. It was actually ironic. I had a photo shoot like right outside this big mural in Austin that's like a women's empowerment mural for this run club that I'm starting and as I was taking pictures he ran by and as I was standing there like this, like staring at the camera.
Speaker 2:On his cost and I was like God is so funny, Like that is so funny Wow. But now it's like you know what it's mine, power is mine and my life is mine, and I'm never, ever gonna let anyone infiltrate it like that again.
Speaker 1:So yeah, wow, I'm so glad that you're here. Me too, I was more to do. Nah, seriously, and like as you talk about it, I mean when you're wrapped up in situations like that, like your brain and your nervous system starts to see that push and pull and starts to see that inconsistency as like safe. So anything outside of that, like you stepping away from that situation, your body's like wait, like this isn't safe, like this is what you've known for the past year and anything outside of that is not okay, but like you're literally living proof that it's possible and I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 2:It's always better also to get out before you get like physically actually hurt. Like a lot of these relationships that are emotionally abusive, it's important to know, do turn physical. So yeah, Keeping that in mind, it was like that's also a part of like what helps me be like I gotta get out of this Like.
Speaker 1:I'm running out of time, you know so have what's something that you've learned about yourself, since you've been able to step away from that situation.
Speaker 2:Something I've learned, I think, about myself, is that it's interesting Now, like with dating and stuff, like I have a new trauma response.
Speaker 1:Like I have new trauma I have to work through.
Speaker 2:Now I'm like scared and closed off in a lot of ways. But something I've learned about myself is that I and I've known this really from navigating things in the past but I have an uncanny ability to put my head down and it shows with, like the way that I get addicted to fitness and stuff, like to put my head down and just like deal with it and like when I get into that place, like I am resilient and I can rise and I can come back from things that like I feel I never will be able to. And I think that if there's anything that anyone can take from my experience and really my life has turned around and I'm now in this place of like having some influence in my community and like building things and being a notable person in the fitness world here and all of that was on my own.
Speaker 2:It wasn't him that did that, for me it was that people are drawn to people who are kind and who really do have like good intentions. And so I think what I've learned is trust your gut, but also like trust yourself enough to be able to know that any situation that you're in is temporary. You're not supposed to have, I mean, life ebbs and flows. You're not supposed to have like gotten to a point. There's not gonna be one moment in life where you're like, oh, everything's clear, like I get it, I see where I'm supposed to be and what I'm supposed to be doing. Like that's not real.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think, you know, giving myself the grace and the space and the trust to know that, like I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me, but also I can do all things and I can rise above anything, you know, even the things that feel impossible. That's been, I think, the biggest takeaway, and anyone can do that. And I think the thing specifically that I'm so empowered and inspired by about women and the women in my life is that women like literally do that, like we literally like have babies and stuff like that. It's like crazy. So you know, we have so much more strength and more power than we think we do so, getting to a place of, just like Catherine, you can choose like you don't have to do anything that you don't want to.
Speaker 1:But if you do make a mistake, you know that you can get through it like that confidence has been really powerful for me, so yeah, cause you made it through probably the worst, like one of the worst things that you know you could experience, and even with like your dad and then with this relationship, like you've been through some hard stuff and you know you're living and although it's a part of your story, like you get to use it to help other people and just be like a light for others. Yeah, no, 100% that life is worth living and like it's more than just a relationship.
Speaker 1:It's not. It's not worth losing yourself to to make something work or to please other people.
Speaker 2:No, and the thing too is like I think I always felt to some degree like I have really bad ADHD and I've always been painfully aware that, like my ADHD makes me hard to love, sometimes like in the sense of just, or I've always felt that way I don't know if that's true, but like I'm not always super organized, like I don't always have my shit together, like I'm not someone who, you know, has everything planned out and is always being productive and like working towards something.
Speaker 2:And I think, you know, on social media it's very easy to be like, yeah, like everyone else seems like they have their day like perfectly planned and is always working towards something great. And I think, like that complex in my head of just like not being super easy to love or like maybe being a little more complex or whatever, has been something I've struggled with and I've recently come to a place where I'm like but that's not actually true at all Like I I'm easy to love in the sense that, like I want to also love and like anyone who's meant for you, it's not going to be that complicated. Like you know, it's not going to be. It's not going to feel like you're hard to love, like it's going to feel easy and it's not always going to feel easy, but it's going to feel like peaceful, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's been a good thing I always say it's like, if it's from God, it may not feel easy but it's going to have a clarity and it's going to have a peace about it. And that's something that I've been praying for recently is that, especially in relationships, that the Lord would give me clarity and peace and then also give me discernment too, and being able to see that discernment and like follow through with it. But I think I mean with your story, it's just proof that when because I know that your relationship with the Lord has grown and that has changed- Expensively through this process.
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, and it's like when you pray for something specific and like you ask God for it, he will show up and honor that.
Speaker 2:Maybe not in the way that you think, but I mean, there's always a greater plan, and that's a hard thing to trust and grapple with too. But it's kind of like I've gotten to a point with it where I'm just like, listen, life isn't straight, regardless, Like it's not a linear thing. We are meant to be here one moment and be here the next, like, and that's what makes it so beautiful, that's what makes it kind of, you know, like this process, that is life. So remembering that and kind of honoring that and understanding like you're gonna make some mistakes, but like you always have the ability to get out of them if you want to, is a very powerful feeling Like discernment, being able to truly like I don't know, you know be all in or be all out, or maybe be unsure, like all of those things are okay, so yeah.
Speaker 1:I love. Thank you for sharing all of that. Of course, yeah, and I'm so. I know that talking about it sometimes I'm sure can bring up some emotions and bring up some things, which is very fair. So I appreciate you sharing that. And just for anyone listening, like I mean, as women, we were made to be nurturers and love people and take care of people, so I think that can very easily get clouded inside of relationships. But I mean I, when I look at my friends and my parents and people that have healthy relationships like you see what that's like and you know the guy like asks questions and genuinely is interested and cares about the female and like takes care of her and can talk through emotions and is emotionally available, and it helps seeing and having healthy relationships inside of your life that you can look up to. So I don't know, just like see you and look at you, like how much love you have to give and how you really care for people is that you deserve so much more. And, yeah, we both do.
Speaker 1:But again it's so easy to say that to people, but then deep down it's like oh, but like I don't deserve that, but you do and I do. And I think being able to confidently say that and like, bring your power back to yourself. There's something so powerful in that and I think a lot of us struggle with it more than we think or more than we realize.
Speaker 2:I think so too, yeah, but I mean, the biggest thing is your power is yours. Like nobody, and whoever it is that you want to be, it's also okay. Like maybe you're dating someone and they're doing all the things for you that you always wanted, but you're just really not that into it. Like that's okay too, you know, like it's like that's a part of it. You're not meant to love every single person, but yeah, I think the biggest takeaway from this year is your power is yours and what you do with your power is entirely up to you. It could be fitness related, it could be business related, it could be related to your family or your relationships, but like knowing that you own that and like walking and being a part of kind of being, knowing that you are just in control of that, is like a critically important thing too to understand, especially as young women, especially as we kind of navigate what is uncertain.
Speaker 1:So we're still learning, like we're still both so young too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know 27, 24, like. There's too much pressure on age too. Like it's, like you know it's going to be fine, like we're going to figure it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I can't wait to be a wife and mom one day, but it is not worth Just settling to do that. No, yeah, I agree. Well, thank you for sharing that, of course, and I love you and I'm proud of you.
Speaker 2:I love you. I'm proud of you too. You're doing amazing things with this podcast and with your social media and should be so, so proud of the way that you've been able to be vulnerable as well lately, and like what that means to people. So, and it means something to me. I mean I told you that on your birthday, but like having a friend who, even through a phone or whatever it feels like, is going through the same things as I am, is like one of the most just amazing things for me. So I'm grateful.
Speaker 2:Well, just make yourself at home, walk right.
Speaker 1:That was serious. Your message, though I love like recording stuff. I love screenshotting little messages like that people. I don't know if you do this, but the people send on Instagram or just like kind words that people send. I started your birthday message because that seriously was like the sweetest thing that anyone's ever said to me.
Speaker 2:So no, but I mean it like you're, you're killing it. I'm really proud of you, so I'm excited for the day we get to hug and I know love on each other, I know and do a woman crush Wednesday yes. Okay.
Speaker 1:So quick thing on a lighter note, to kind of wrap up Okay, marathon is in two days. Yes, are you like tell us a little bit? Do you have a goal? How are you feeling? I think I have a goal. I think I have a goal. So my goal is three, 20.
Speaker 2:Reagan's faster than me already in her one marathon. No, it's not yours, no, but I. My goal is three, 20. I've been working really hard. I've had the most incredible coach, her name is Lauren. She is someone you should have on your podcast. She's phenomenal. I definitely creeps on her when you tag her. I need to talk to her. Oh gosh, she's like, I'm gonna be like, I'm gonna be like I'm gonna be like I'm gonna be like I'm gonna just turn the wheel back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is not actually true. I'm just not sure. You guys are just like two team behind each other.
Speaker 1:Do you have any?
Speaker 2:thoughts on that. No.
Speaker 1:I'm not comfortable with that. Once I do that, I've got my upstairs, I'm back, so that's the goal.
Speaker 2:I'm excited. Taper's weird. Like it's really hard on your mental. Um, it's. It's funny. My friend was texting me the other day like I'm going crazy like not being able to work out, and I was telling you earlier like I've kind of been enjoying like eating and sitting this week because my life has just been so busy up to this point. Um, but yeah, I'm ready, I'm excited. I think like it's my opportunity to like prove myself Right, kind of improve myself that I can. I can do whatever I set out to do and either way, like if it happens, I'll be super proud. But it's a special one for me. My, my mom and my sister are coming and my sister's never seen me raised before and um, so that'll be really cool. Uh, and yeah, I mean I'm excited.
Speaker 2:I feel like I have this um weird thing that happens to me where I get like like strangely calm amongst chaos and um, when my life is like the most chaotic, I'll have moments of being not calm, but like the things that I feel like a race, for example, like the same thing happened before Chicago. Everyone was like freaking out and worried about, like you know, if they they got to get off their feet and they can't eat pizza with sauce and all this stuff, and I was like y'all, I'm going and seeing this city, I'm walking around Like and I mean, my pizza was half a good day and I ended up doing really well.
Speaker 2:So I think, like that's kind of how I'm approaching it, like I'm nervous, but I also am confident in the work that I've put in and and know that, like, whatever's going to happen is going to happen, like it just kind of is what it is, so yeah, I'm so excited for you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I can't wait to cheer you on.
Speaker 2:I'm excited for you, for your next high rocks.
Speaker 1:The fast, speedy girl. Oh my gosh, we'll see, We'll see and.
Speaker 2:I was reading your thing about like what your pace, like what you think oh yeah.
Speaker 1:I was like geez, that is hard because, like, you're in the arena and I have people that are running faster than me, but then there's also some people that you know I mean high rocks truly is like a race for anyone. So there are some people that you know it takes a little bit longer, like, which I freaking love, like it's so inclusive, um. But I think it's like when you're running beside people that maybe are a little bit slower, it's you know, you just naturally like go the pace of them and it's like you got to pick it up, you got to go. So that's kind of the goal for the next one, but it'll be, great, what's your okay?
Speaker 1:Last question what is your post-race meal? What are you eating?
Speaker 2:So I'm literally just asking this and I have a really hard time with this. Um, I usually am not that hungry for a while.
Speaker 2:Like I usually am just like, like I feel like I've had so much fake sugar and stuff that I like don't really want to eat for a couple hours but, um, I think that I'm probably going to go with like a steak or like a big burger or something. I'm a big like pizza the day before girl. Oh, I think that like the day after um, and like whatever kind of sweet dessert I like. I love dessert. So something like a cookie, like in a skillet, um, and like a big old cheeseburger and fries, that probably would be my my go to running song.
Speaker 1:Do you have like yeah?
Speaker 2:So actually my number one running hack. Um, there is a playlist on Apple music, which I know that not everyone's an Apple music person, but I'm sure they have one on Spotify too. I have both Spotify and Apple music, so please don't judge me people.
Speaker 2:Um, but uh, there's a playlist called, like Beyonce workout plus fitness or something, and I'm not going to lie to you, I was like every single long run this block, every single um speed day, this block. I have had that playlist on in my headphones and like there's something about like when, like countdown comes on, or like one song that I put in my um real the other day.
Speaker 2:What, oh my God, freedom. Like all these different songs that are just like these, super like you can do anything, or like either that or like really, really fast and I don't know what it is, but Beyonce, single handedly, has carried me through this marathon.
Speaker 1:I love it, still hurt. And then I have some like EDM, like better not be the child, things like that that I really like to listen to, but Might have to pull out some Jesus music for the last little bit and really get it going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean Jesus, music is great. I've cried so many times on runs like let's make them need to breathe and stuff. So, oh my gosh, you can't go wrong really. But but, Beyonce is my number one, for sure.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Apple music people.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, you're so cute, you're so precious. I hope I could talk to you soon. I am so thankful that you made time today and maybe talk to us about it. I ended up being like the perfect week to chat and we can do another podcast talking about interns, running and things too. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:We'll do another one that's less heavy topics, but, um, but no, for now. I think it's good, it's good to get all this stuff across and hopefully, if anyone hears this and needs some support navigating any of the things that we talked about, like please feel comfortable reaching out to me or to Reagan, um, like we want to be there and support other other girls as they, as we, kind of navigate. Being a woman, like in this life that we live.
Speaker 1:it's not easy so yes, I will link your Instagram and everything in the description, but seriously, if you're listening to this, like cats Instagram is, you're just going to feel so warm and just so like welcome. It's just such a vulnerable space. So earlier in the podcast we were talking about giving compliments and this is I'm telling you if you just like resonated with her story at all or just like appreciated it, shoot her a message, um, because it's hard to talk about these things and it's just like it's something so simple.
Speaker 2:So I appreciate you and I love you, I'm proud of you, my girl, come out and there's so many boys out here that are like how do you know this girl?
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Kind of wave you up, so maybe you got to come out here and we'll find you Women.
Speaker 1:Women oh my, I'm taking, I'm taking a break. Yeah, I hear you. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you for doing this today and thank you everyone for listening. Yes, thank y'all.
