Made for More
Made for More
Being a Top Hybrid Athlete: Jack Driscoll's Approach to Fitness and Performance
In this inspiring and educational episode, listeners are invited to delve into the journey of Jack Driscoll, a true hybrid athlete who has conquered the realms of bodybuilding, Ironman, marathons, and hybrid competitions. From sculpting his physique on the bodybuilding stage to enduring the grueling challenges of Ironman and marathons, Jack's story becomes a testament to the limitless possibilities of the human body.
The podcast explores the mindset, training, and dedication it takes to excel in such diverse disciplines, unraveling how Jack seamlessly lives in the worlds of strength, endurance, and hybrid athleticism. His insights provide valuable lessons for anyone looking to push their physical limits and embrace a multifaceted approach to fitness.
Whether listeners are fitness enthusiasts, aspiring athletes, or simply curious about the world of hybrid sports, this episode offers an inspiring conversation with a true ATHLETE. The episode uncovers the secrets behind Jack's success, revealing how he continues to redefine what it means to be a versatile and resilient athlete.
Tune in for a dose of pure motivation that might just be the catalyst for your own breakthrough.
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Hello, sweet friends, welcome to Made for More, the podcast. My name is Reagan, if we have not met yet, and I'm so thankful that you're here. I don't know if you can hear it, but I'm just. I'm giddy, like my voice is giddy right now and I'm smiling a lot today. So I hope that you are too, and I hope that you are ready for an amazing episode. Whether you're listening in the car, getting ready, at the gym, on a walk, I'm just so grateful that you guys are tuning in and spending a little bit of your day with me and my special guest today. So I am so just eager for you guys to listen to this episode.
Speaker 1:I have Jack Driscoll on the podcast and he is one of my friends that is an insane athlete and an even more incredible human. After you listen to this episode, you are going to want to go throw a heavy weight around or sign up for a marathon and get after it. So just putting that out there, just warning you. It was funny whenever I posted that I was having Jack on my podcast, I had so many guys reply to my story. They were like oh my God, I just looked at this man's page and he's insane, like does he sleep? What does he eat? Like asking all these questions and I was like, hey, I got you.
Speaker 1:I'm going to get these answered on the podcast for you, okay. But amazing episode Jack is. He says on the episode that he's not a genetic freak he hasn't always been super jacked and crazy athletic, but how hard he works and the direct correlation between the work that he does daily shows and his aesthetics, obviously, and then two in his hybrid athletic performance. So so excited for you guys to listen to this one. If you do enjoy it, shoot Jack in message, let me know, share it to your story and, if you want, please leave a review on Apple podcast or Spotify, just so the podcast can reach more people. But I'm so thankful that you're listening and let's get to the episode and the real reason that you are here.
Speaker 2:What is up? My friends Happy to be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks for thanks for making time today. People in the podcast can't see but he's in his whole like little jacked fitness gym, the perfect little setup.
Speaker 2:I don't have to worry about looking pretty.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Straight from the gym.
Speaker 1:Did you train this morning?
Speaker 2:I just got done hitting legs. That's all I did so far, though.
Speaker 1:Okay. Training session number one for the day Number one, yeah, three, okay. So for the people listening, I feel like a lot of people, I feel like we have a lot of mutual friends in this space, like now that I've met you and we've kind of connected. But for the people that do not know who you are, tell us a little bit about Jack. What does he do? Kind of give us a little. I hate that question of like tell us about yourself, but tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2:All in all, just overall fitness and jewelry, a little bit of everything. That's kind of like. My whole thing is that I try to be a jack of all trades. Yeah, play on words right there. Powerlifting, bodybuilding, marathons, ironman's, hybrid stuff, anything and everything. I want to be able to do it. I want to be able to do it well. Besides that, I'm a full-time career firefighter. I own this little personal training gym. I do some online stuff. Big family six siblings, three brothers, three sisters I mean I think that's probably the interesting stuff.
Speaker 1:That is crazy. Where are you from and where do you live?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I'm from Jersey, South Jersey. I can ride across the bridge from Philly. It's a tough time to be a Philadelphia sports fan right now, but we power through.
Speaker 1:That I couldn't even imagine. We talked about this like I'm an only child and you have six. I'm like, how do you even do that? But I know that it's so much fun whenever you guys all get together.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it's a good time. My parents Irish Catholics, so that's what they do.
Speaker 1:There you go, now you're building friends, yeah, and now you're building best friends forever.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah. Two of my sisters came with me for my last marathon, and my mom I think my dad and my brothers are coming with me for my 100 mile race in a couple of months, so it's awesome they're all so supportive. I'm very lucky.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're definitely going to dig into that too, yeah, okay. So I kind of creeped on your Instagram and got some of your stats just to tell people how much of an athlete you are. You don't have to be humble in this, but 600 plus deadlift, you did a natural bodybuilding show, which is Natural pro card. Oh, you got your pro card.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my last one I did was the pro show and I did like top five on that. But the one before that is the one I got my pro card.
Speaker 1:Okay, wow, you really are a jack of all trades. Sub three hour marathon what's your fastest marathon time?
Speaker 2:258, 28. I was shooting for 250 and I did not have my best day, but it's, marathons are tough, so we'll hit the drawing board again at some point and try and prove that time.
Speaker 1:For sure. 500 plus pound squat sub five minute mile and three 15 plus bench. Like the man does it all. Have you always just like with your background? Have you always did you play sports growing up? Have you always been athletic Like? I've seen your transformation progress photo and it's like amazing.
Speaker 2:Thank you, thank you. So grew up playing sports. I feel like most people who end up in fitness are kind of like at some sort of level, but at first it was just I started working out just for sports and then when I was a junior I tore my ACL during football and my whole like sports background is kind of like how my fitness, how I would describe myself fitness not the best at anything, but pretty well rounded, can pick things up and do pretty decent at most things, but not the best at anything, and that's kind of always how I've been. But, like I said, when I was junior I tore my ACL in football and all I could do was be in the weight room. After that, like while I was recovering, all my friends were playing sports and stuff like that I could was hobbling around doing a lot of upper body days for sure. But by the time I got healthy I was able to start squatting and running again.
Speaker 2:All I could really think about was just fitness in general, working out in general, because what I've learned the beauty of fitness is it really is what you put in, is what you get out Like. It rewards the people who put in the hours more so than almost anything. When it comes to like most, like normal sports, it's a lot about talent and don't get me wrong, power is never undervalued. But you can only go so far with what you have talent-wise, whereas in fitness you can put in 20, 25 hours a week of training and really come out the other side a much better athlete, a much well-rounded athlete, and make so much progress, like I feel like I'm just touching the surface of what I'm capable of Because, like I said, it rewards the hours and the volume and the work and it's really gratifying.
Speaker 1:There's that direct correlation between the two.
Speaker 1:Which I'm sure obviously that creates more motivation and just discipline inside of it too, so with your, with just trying to be, because when I think of a hybrid athlete, like seriously, one of the first people that do come to mind because it's like I'm sure if someone's like, hey, you want to go like run a marathon next month, you're like, yeah, I can do that, or do a powerlifting me, like it's so cool that you've been and you are very well versed in each of those, with your discipline inside of your training, and you said that you're just kind of scratching the surface. Was there a moment in the past few years or like in your life that you're like, okay, this is what I want to be, and like just just that pivotal moment where you just made that switch?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So number one, like it's kind of like a blessing and a curse to be like as straight out as I am, because it's like I'm like a love child of like a hybrid racer and like a crossfitter, kind of like in the middle, like where I'm not like elite at either one but I can hang with almost anybody and anything which is really cool and that's my ideal hybrid athlete definition.
Speaker 2:That's my ideal definition of fitness in general is being able to pick up anything and do it pretty well and hang with the best of the best. So I started this journey last August where I was like training to be the fittest man in the world. I did a TikTok series and it was like a year straight and it was all leading up to this past June where I did four different competitions in one month where I did a cross country road trip. So the first weekend was a powerlifting meet, the second weekend was battle bunker, the regionals, so like a hybrid athlete style competition. The third weekend was a bodybuilding show and then the last weekend was a full Ironman and I did them all back to back, to back, yeah, while doing a cross country road trip in a van.
Speaker 2:So like I was like I'm pretty sure I'm the first person to do that and like really kind of going with that I can do anything at any point. Like I'm prepared to do, like tomorrow I could run a marathon, tomorrow I can squat 500 pounds, tomorrow I could swim three miles and do all these different things. And while I think a lot of hybrid athletes are, either they do one thing at a time and which is great, like they do it triply and like they're showing their range, but my idea of fitness is that I can do them all at the same time and I really want to show that during that month of June and it was- it was brutal.
Speaker 2:It was fun.
Speaker 1:That is. I've never heard of anyone doing that. You have to be the first person to do that. Did you document it on like YouTube? You said TikTok.
Speaker 2:I so I was by myself so and I was like depleted and I saw I documented on TikTok, it's all there. But like I really do wish I kind of went more full scale with like the recording process. But I was also driving like eight hours a day and like still training like during that month like three, four hours a day while on the road, and it was. It was, it was like once in a lifetime experience and that's kind of how I want my whole life to turn into, not necessarily those complete obscenities of spectrum, because the bodybuilding part of it made it really hard, being depleted and like doing those like strength oriented competitions and then doing the Ironman right after. But the idea that I can do a different competition each weekend or each month and that's what I'm doing this year is that I'm going to do at least one, preferably two competitions each month that are all different. Wow, okay.
Speaker 1:I have to ask for my curiosity how did you feel doing the battle bunker and then the Ironman, like the week before and after your show?
Speaker 2:Terrible.
Speaker 2:I mean obviously like you finished, but yeah, it was like it was like a science project, like depleting yourself and then trying to carve up and trying to feel good for, like you know, five, six hours for a competition and then go back to feeling like shit to like for the bodybuilding prep and then by the time you're done the bodybuilding you're like eating everything to try and get yourself ready for the Ironman. It wasn't smart, but it was. It was and I think that's like obviously you should have a structured training plan. You should be. You know there should be some logic behind what you're doing. But what's gets lost sometimes is just being able to push yourself and I'm not saying go kill yourself, but like that like threshold of what the body can withstand if your mind is willing to go, is only going to help you progress so much, so much further. Like. That's why I really do feel like I'm barely scratching the surface, because I know I'm willing to send it as hard as I can and see what I'm made of.
Speaker 1:What did you find in that moment that I mean there had to be so many times that you wanted to quit or stop or like, why am I doing this On your day?
Speaker 2:Where, in general, I love working out, but you don't love working out all the time, even if that's like you're like like you love your parents but you don't love them all the time, because sometimes they piss you off or stuff like that. It's the same thing with fitness. It's not, it's not ever easy, and that's kind of why we're so invested in it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, where did you find the just the mentality and just the mental part to keep going, because, obviously, like, your brain's going to tell you to stop before your physical tells you to stop. But where was that?
Speaker 2:I number. One piece of advice and just in life, not just fitness is speak things into the universe and announce them, even if you land straight on your face. Like you put it out there and you fully committed to it and you went all out and you didn't let the negative thoughts and all the things that scare you stop you. Like before my Ironman, the longest on like so I did some like longer inside, like Zwift rides, but the longest I've ever rode on a bike was like 60 miles and then I had 112 for the Ironman, wow, yeah.
Speaker 2:So what you're capable of, if you just put it out in the universe and say you're going to do something, you'll shock yourself. You kind of lock yourself into doing these things if you let everyone know, especially those closest to you, because they'll help you accountable and you feel like you have to because you said you would, and that's like the most. That's the most important quality we can have is our dedication to ourselves. You know, like commitment to ourselves, I should say doing things because you want to do them for yourself and then other people appreciate that and support you along the way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. I feel like that's been coming up. I've heard that so many times recently and I've always said you build confidence through doing what you say you're going to do. But yeah, doing what?
Speaker 2:you're doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like, even if it's just, I'm going to go on a 30 minute run this morning, like for someone starting out, just like the power that you can fill inside of that is like, yeah, I did that thing.
Speaker 2:It's not my Instagram story. Like, if I have a long run and I don't want to do it, just post a picture. I'm down to 18 miles, about 20 miles, and then if you don't post that, watch at the end of it people are going to be like where's it?
Speaker 1:Let me check that Strava yeah.
Speaker 2:I was literally last night. I went to the track and it snowed last week, but I figure it would be clear by now. Track is covered in snow and I post this caption. I mean Instagram story. I'm like, well, these 400 meters, 400 meter repeats are going to be fun and I posted it. And the next thing I posted on my Instagram story was me running on the track.
Speaker 1:They were a little veiny on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, basically high kneeing it. You can do this now.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, that I mean even like me just watching your stories, I'm like, all right, yep, I need to get up and go train With being in. Okay, I have a few questions With being in the space. I feel like hybrid. Hybrid is something that, like, a lot of people are just kind of throwing that term around. Do you, do you find it? Do you struggle with comparison at all inside of that? Or like just that feeling of having to be the best? Like, do you struggle with that being a male?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I feel like this is like a reoccurring theme with hybrid. I feel like people like, because you know, some people's definition will be oh, I go do a arm workout and then do a little 5k after, and then it's just like oh, if you're not hybrid, racing high rocks, decade, you're not a hybrid athlete. And those guys are, and girls are extremely, extremely fit. But it is kind of like one discipline. In my opinion, it's an endorsement. So it's also like they're coming at these people for doing this. And then, you know, I feel like we shouldn't gatekeep the term.
Speaker 2:You know, bodybuilding and CrossFit are the two biggest pillars in fitness as far as fandom, as far as money, as far as everything. And it's because the spectrum of how invested or not invested or how much you put in is all relative to the person. Like, some people do two CrossFit sessions a week. Some people are just fans of bodybuilding and they're easily the biggest things in fitness. And it's because we allow people to use those terms more freely. I do CrossFit and you're not comparing yourself to you know a CrossFit athlete or not?
Speaker 2:Fraser or Jake Cutler and Chris Bumstead. You know it's like the hybrid space needs to kind of just let people enjoy the idea of doing multiple disciplines at once, at whatever level they are, and then, you know, only get more human level. It's like I see somebody with 300,000 followers that can't do 5% of the things I do. It's like that kind of sucks. You know, like I feel like I'm putting in so much into fitness and they're getting so much out of it for being better at social media. But is that their fault or my fault? I mean, they're good at social media. That's credit to them. They're doing the right things that way. So you can't really take that away from them either, even if it gets you a little bit aggravated. That's the human side of things. So you got to kind of just remember to stay in your own lean, your own journey, appreciate what you're doing, as long as you're doing it for yourself. At the end of the day, those other things don't matter as much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think things will like. I'm such a believer that things will just naturally come. I mean, you're putting in the hard work with pure intentions, obviously, so it will come, whatever is supposed to happen. Do you have anyone in this space that you look up to, or is it like in kind of different pockets that you have someone that you look up to?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, so I'm a fanboy of a bunch of like different higher people, especially like so like Meg and Lauren, like, and Tara, like I talk to them like decent amount, especially Meg and Tara. Like I talk to Tara all the time they're beasts and you can see that all the work they put in consistently. And then like Rylin and Dylan Scott I talk to a lot too, and who's putting in more volume than Dylan Scott? It makes me look like I'm not putting in that nine hours and I just I love that and they're all just workaholics and those are the people I relate to most. There are just the people who just put in the hours and hours and hours and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:And obviously the bigger scale people like Nick Nick Baron, stuff like that, are awesome, especially because of the YouTube quality they put out. But I definitely appreciate more of like the true, like hardcore athletes that are just doing it to become their fittest versions of themselves and stuff like that. Yeah, I mean, I feel like we can all learn something and be inspired by anyone, especially if they're. Whatever their craft is or whatever their specific thing is, they consistently put in 100% effort and a lot of work. That's what feeds me. It doesn't have to be fitness in general like anything, as long as they're kind of like that whole workaholic thing. That's what relates to me best.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that you mentioned those people too, because I had the chance to meet Meg for the first time in a few weeks, like two weeks ago. She was in California, like 15 minutes from me, and I think it's like her and Lauren, their moms they have jobs Like they're just real people that have been busting their butt the past few years and it's like you relate to it.
Speaker 2:They're super well rounded, Like getting to do rallying the value with them. They went first and second and they were just battling the whole weekend and it was just so cool to watch. They're just so good at everything. Had a lot of fun with that.
Speaker 1:Just real people.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think it's a coolest thing. Ok, outside of so. You mentioned you worked for the fire department full time. This is probably a hard question for you. Outside of fitness, what do you enjoy? Do you have any other hobbies?
Speaker 2:I'm a huge dork when it comes to movies in general, but like superhero stuff like on the back of my gym I have Batman, spider-man, like painting it on there Probably just a big movie guy, honestly. Like this week I've watched three movies already. I do a lot of because, as I'm training for this ultra, I'm doing a lot of easy treadmill miles and I find that if you are in a true zone too, where you're really working the aerobic capacity and you're able to watch movie, you're in good space. So I watched the end of the Spider-Verse, I mean across the Spider-Verse, I watched Warrior and I watched Gladiator.
Speaker 1:So OK, I'll have to add this. It's going to be a bit of a long story. Basically, when you're not training, you're not at the fire station or doing client programs, you're chilling.
Speaker 2:Chilling. Yeah, I'm a dog.
Speaker 1:I love that Very nice guy honestly. Hey, that's all I mean. No need to make it fancy With your. I do have another pressure about the competitions that you did. Did you coach yourself or did you have someone coach you?
Speaker 2:I coach myself for everything because I feel like I truly am like doing something that other people don't do and can't relate to. There's 1,000% better bodybuilding coaches, running coaches, powerlifting coaches but how are those people going to be able to facilitate all my other needs and desires with fitness? I'm trying to do all these things at once. I'm trying to create a new niche of fitness where you're doing all these things at the same time. So I'm my own human test subject, basically doing some science projects on myself, like trying to figure out how much volume of this and what's the best, like how many weeks for a strength focused versus a running focused. Blah, blah, blah blah, and constantly learning new things about myself and able to implement that with other people.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, I don't feel like anyone does that. And what better way to learn about it than you taking yourself through it? Because obviously you have to do research and be your own test subject. So, yeah, wow, ok, walk us through. I did put a question box up on Instagram and had a few questions. One person asked if you were single. We had a lot of questions about nutrition. So what does a full day of eating look like for you? I think you put on your Instagram that you were eating like 500 or 5,000 something calories.
Speaker 2:Yeah, ok, yeah, so because I'm constantly doing different things, like you don't have to weigh yourself every day, but if you're constantly changing the variables of what you're doing as far as volume and stuff like that, it's good, because I don't want underfuel and I want overfuel, so it's not like in a healthy unrelationship with scale, it's more so. I eat enough Most of the time. That's. The main thing for me is I'm probably going to be under eating if I'm doing something wrong. But I love Kodiak cakes. I do protein pancakes with peanut butter every day. That's like my fun meal.
Speaker 2:I always do lean ground beef or steak and rice, usually two or three meals a day. I do a lot of snacks with either rice cakes, bagels. I even have like salt pretzels and stuff like that, because you just need the carbs for your energy source, so the other day your body's gonna consume them. The same way Need to make sure I get my fruits in Bananas. Usually they're the easiest to eat. But I love like mixed berries and stuff like that. Or Oikos, greek yogurts 15 grams of protein, easy money for a hundred calories, and then just like my BPN stuff like protein powders. They have the go bars which are like little oatmeal bars and then gels for, like if I'm doing multiple hours in a row of training. So it's the same things every day. I don't like say like I have to have four, eight ounce, 300 grams of rice meals per day. I have my total macros and then, depending on how the day goes, I will flip flop how much I eat for here, how much I eat here, but the same daily value is hit.
Speaker 1:Got it, yeah, so a lot like people listening, obviously like you're a high level athlete eating 5,000 calories a day, so your nutrition is a lot of macro dense options, so like honey and then the Kodiak cakes, like a lot of just trying to, I mean basically squeezing as many calories as you can without your gut feeling like crap.
Speaker 2:So if I was doing the opposite, where I was trying to like lose weight, I would be eating more like potatoes and stuff like that. They're very you know that would be my main source of carbs, instead of rice you can eat so much rice so easily versus like potatoes you get, like you get way more volume and stuff like that. There was like the little kind of tricks of the trade. Like I wouldn't be eating pretzels and bagels and stuff like that If I didn't have all those calories I needed to fill. Like I'm still hitting my micronutrients, I'm still hitting my protein goals. But like if you're working out three to four hours a day, you're gonna need a lot of carbs, and some of those have to be easy carbs. Like I'll eat cereal. I'm a little sloth for special K and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, love special K Are you? Do you like fill the bowl up and then you just like keep wearing cereal in it until the milk's gone?
Speaker 2:I usually have a set Okay yeah, but I mean it does turn in that sometimes Do you so with?
Speaker 1:there was a question about. I totally just started a question about splitting up running, lifting and like functional training. I know that you do coach one-on-one clients too, so just for cause, I feel like a lot of people are starting to run more, which is awesome, because I feel like for a long time it was always like, oh, you don't need to do cardio and you know like, no need to run, you can hit your goals.
Speaker 2:I was one of them. I was one of them.
Speaker 1:I was like you don't need to do cardio to lose weight, but it's Good man, stand for your needs. It's cool to see people transitioning into it. So I just for like the general pop bodybuilding style training if they want to start running, or like our training for a half marathon or marathon. Maybe on it's a little bit different, but how would you structure a week of training?
Speaker 2:All right, well, number one, just like talking about like doing it back to back and stuff like that. If, if you are doing your sessions back to back, you should lift first, your cardio advanced endurance is not going to be affected by doing the weights first, but your muscular endurance will be affected by doing the cardio first. If you're separating them by, like you know, five, six, seven, eight hours, it doesn't matter. Do whatever workouts. More important If you're doing, if you're training for a race, you should probably run first. That should probably be your priority and then hit the weights later. But as far as preparation for anything and I know it's kind of like almost hypocritical for me to say because I'm always jumping into one thing or another that's because I built up such a work capacity over time, over years. The more time you can give yourself to prepare for something, the better. If you're just getting into running, you probably shouldn't start with more than 10, 15 miles at the most per week. People get so caught up with trying to catch up that they end up taking three steps back in an attempt to take one step forward. Less is more slow. Progressive overload is the absolute key to anything in fitness running, lifting, weight loss. It's all this. It's all small steps, small steps, small steps. Give yourself a little break. Small steps, small steps, small steps. And that's the way it should be.
Speaker 2:If you were to know like running background at all, I would do probably four runs a week with real like through three days, low volume and then one longer run. It doesn't. The long run doesn't have to be 10 miles to start. If you're running 1.5 to two miles for your easy runs, three to four for your long runs, perfectly fine, it's all relative. If someone's doing two miles for the easier runs, why would I make them do nine miles for their long run? It's all just about building up that capacity. I would keep a speed day in there just to get kind of like that turnover. But you can do run walks to start Like. It doesn't have to be you run nonstop for three hours to try and turn yourself into a runner. It's tough, like even for me. I was training for eight, nine years before I started running like real running cause people. They come at me like, oh, you didn't run while you played sports in high school. That's not really what I'm talking about. This isn't the first time I ever ran in my life.
Speaker 2:I mean, this is the first time.
Speaker 2:I've tried to be a runner. They'll take anything you say online and try and twist it. But, like I said, 10 to 15 miles to start is perfectly fine. Even less than that's fine. It's all relative. You can mix and match your conditioning workouts, cross training, like for me.
Speaker 2:I grew up swimming a little bit, so I was swimming twice a week, right to start, in no impact. You're not putting any damage on any joints or anything like that and you can still get really quality aerobic work hitting the bike, hitting any machines, Like. You can keep building your aerobic capacity with limited miles and then, once you start to get the joints and the muscles used to the pounding of running, you can increase volume that way, like Rylan, he always talks about like how he had to basically take a break from high mileage and he still became a much better runner because of all the other cross training he was doing. And that's fast like way faster than me. At the end of the day, fitness is transferable and I always say all fitness is good fitness. So yeah, while you may not like it may not be the same as running 60 miles a week, but if you run 20 miles per week you get some swimming and some cycling work and some machine work, you're going to build a really strong engine regardless.
Speaker 1:Cool. So with the for people listening like building their big base, is that going to be zone two? Maybe like dipping into that zone three a little bit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like you can definitely get away with dipping in a zone three, like to start, because, just because you're like, the spectrum is so broad and you kind of need to.
Speaker 2:You need to push it a little bit. I feel like people like at this point with me for running, my zone two is going to be like high 130s heart rate for the whole duration because I'm doing so much more intense stuff with all my other workouts. That needs to be true. Like easy miles, like truly like I can feel like I can do it all day. But when you're kind of, if you're just lifting and you're just running, you got a little bit more leeway.
Speaker 2:You kind of push yourself and like really kind of turn it a little bit and just starting anything can be a little tough with trying to balance everything out, because if you're a beginner runner you really might have like a 160 heart rate the one day and like a 145 heart rate the next day with kind of a similar effort. So I feel like it has to be kind of more on a effort based than just living and dying by heart rate, especially to start, like, if you feel like it's pretty smooth and your heart rate is at 155, I'm not going to tell you to just drop it to 140 and like feel like you're running in mud. If it feels good, do it. I mean I think people get a little twisted with that kind of to trust yourself a little bit more than people give them credit for. That makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that definitely makes sense.
Speaker 2:I ramble a little bit.
Speaker 1:So with the running paired with strength training, would you say at least like three days of strength training is good, or is it the more that you can still kind of keep that split and then add in running spirit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it all kind of depends on what your main focus is. If you're trying to just build up, like hypertrophy, and just become bigger and like just develop your physique, I mean three to four days is fine. Now if you're trying to be like high end strength athlete, you might need a couple more days or more quality time in the gym, because there's a difference between, like you know, somebody's one hour in the gym and another person's one hour in the gym. They're not all equal. So it's about the quality of work, for sure. But to say you can't hit your goals with six to seven hours per week is crazy. You can make awesome progress with limited time, as long as you have a good plan and you're actually training hard. The less volume you do, you have to be more efficient with that volume.
Speaker 1:Okay, so quality of our quantity for people listening, quantity matters, quality and quality, yeah, yeah. Quantity and quantity and the be able to choose quality. Do you have a mantra or something that you say to yourself before races or like before an event?
Speaker 2:I stole this one from my friend. But Matt Johnson? He says PR or ER.
Speaker 1:I like it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Obviously. So. We don't want anyone to go to the hospital listening to this podcast, you know, end up in their death bed.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But the idea is that your body will probably go as far as your mind tells it to and I haven't ended up in a hospital bed yet, but you know some people end up with RAPDO doing certain things. So like I'm not saying that you should just say absolutely murder yourself, but the ideally there is more in here and you can give more than you think and I'm willing to find out where that limit is. Like before my last marathon I ended up getting the stomach virus the week before and I did not move for 36 hours like a week out. Like just straight up could not move for 36 hours and I never get sick and I was absolutely bodies. But in my head I was like there's no chance, I'm not going to get sub 250. And I did not allow myself to think that I might fail. But once I got to the start line, mile one, my goal race pace for 26 miles felt like I was going at like a 5k effort. So at some point you have to be like all right, we need to kind of give what give the most. The body can not just fail, flail three miles into this marathon. I want to give the most my body can over the course of 26 miles, not the most they can over the course of five miles. So you have to kind of pick and choose in the midst of this race.
Speaker 2:So by the time I got to the half marathon point I was at like a 126 half marathon. I was like a little bit above the 250 goal obviously over the course of the marathon 252,. If you held your pace the whole time then I was kind of dying. So I was like, all right, plan B is 255. Good, all right, sick, start racing. And then mile 18, absolute Florida downpour, like prototypical, where it's like the heaviest rain. You can imagine my shoes feel like they're cinder blocks. Now I'm like, all right, sub three it is. And I failed my goal. And then I failed my secondary goal, all in the same race.
Speaker 2:But I had a decent day and got a 258 PR and there was nothing more I could do. That day I absolutely sent it. There was no spare seconds wasted and now I can live with. You're not always going to have the time goals or the placing goals that you want. Like I had the idea that I was going to win battle bunker hypercon games and I felt like I was the most fit person there, but I didn't win. You know I was first place going into the last event and I fucked up Like that's on me. You got to live with that. I gave 100% effort in both. Those things failed my original goals, but I can live with it because there was nothing more I could have done. There's nothing more I could have done in training. There was nothing more I could do on competition or race day. I feel like I exhausted all resources and that's the truly the most gratifying feeling is knowing that you fully send it and that you can't put a price tag on.
Speaker 1:No, and I think I feel like a lot of people think it's cocky to go into something and be like, yeah, I'm going to win, like I'm going to win. But when you can confidently say that and you have been training, it's not like you haven't been training for it and you're like, yeah, like I'm just going to win, randomly show up. But it's like, why would you even put in your mind that you're not going to win? Because once it's in your mind that that becomes an option.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, and I'm a huge believer in having even slightly outlaying the goals. I think you know that's okay, because you're going to work towards that goal and if you fail, you're still going to end up in a pretty good spot. I'm not saying go out and search for failure, but I'm saying failure can often be a byproduct of long term success or long term progression, and that's okay.
Speaker 1:So when you get to the dark place, like that place that you want to stop in your workout, which probably happens every single day for you Are you just like?
Speaker 2:You're just there to restore Bulgarian split squats with the hundreds.
Speaker 1:This is a run, a marathon, or freaking split squats like that. They're the worst, but it's like embracing that right and then you feel so much better after.
Speaker 2:Fitness is literally just choosing to live in uncomfortable positions. Like it's a cliche thing to say, but being comfortable, being uncomfortable, that's really all fitness Like. If you feel like awesome and great during most of your workouts, you're probably not training hard and like. That may be like kind of like an eye opener for people that you know or like almost a mean thing to say, but it's the truth. And if you're just trying to get healthy, yeah, you can feel great during your workouts all the time. But if you have like these really high end you know goals and fitness or in competitions or races, 95% of the time you're going to be really uncomfortable. You're going to be a little sore walking in and out of the gym, but you get that body warm and you kind of the mind kind of gets turning and you're like all right, I'm good, just got to get a little sweat and you'll find that you have more to give than you thought.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and even like you may end up in a wheelchair post marathon, right, right, the fact that you ran your marathon and then walked around Disney all day. What is wrong with you?
Speaker 2:It's probably. It definitely wasn't comfortable but it was probably decent for the recovery process, like just getting the body moving and trying to flush out some of that lactic acid. But yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't great. It wasn't great At first, like hour, hour and a half. I really wasn't the wheelchair the whole time. I couldn't like it's so funny how, because you ran your first marathon how long ago, like a few months ago yeah, it's so fast that adrenaline leaves you like you have like your five to 10 minutes where you're taking pictures with everyone and it's like a brick and you're like holy shit, everything hurts.
Speaker 2:Because of the rain and like the all out effort obviously, like I was almost getting like a little bit of hypothermia, like my lips were blue and like I was just like shivering for an hour Like three jackets on. I had like that little heat blanket thing that they gave you after races. It was bad.
Speaker 1:Wow yeah, like a completely different person going from like flexing across the finish line, sitting in your little chair.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm in a transformation.
Speaker 1:That is hilarious With your. Do you have a that you've, or I guess that you're, I don't know. Do you have a favorite race or competition, like what's your favorite?
Speaker 2:that I've done or just in general Like um both. I really like. As far as competition, I really enjoyed rally in the Valley because number one I won, so that's always a good feeling.
Speaker 1:Is that woman, west Virginia.
Speaker 2:Yes. So that is like kind of like ramp my eye, where it's literally all of these fitness disciplines and it's just who's the best of fitness in my opinion. Like there was a trail run, there was five minute CrossFit workouts, there was longer endurance Metcons, there was front squat, one rep maxes, there was paddle boarding, which I was terrible at, but like all these different things, and it was just like, by the end of the day, who is the most well rounded? And that was awesome, because that's exactly what I trained for is to be pretty well rounded, everything, um.
Speaker 2:But I really think I'm going to enjoy this under mile race. I really feel like I'm going to because of the mental like taxation that puts on you, like where it's in a marathon. I know there's like there was at least a hundred moments where I was like I'm going to quit or I'm going to fail, and then it's like just you ride the wave where it's like all right, it's got to make it so like I feel good again, and it only lasts like a minute, but then it goes up and down, up and down. Now, over the course of a hundred miles, 500 times, you're going to have that feeling and like what a dark place that you're going to get to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's like people don't realize how rewarding it is to come out the other side of that, where you had these, this mental battle with yourself for hours, just hours on end, and literally there was nobody's making you do this thing Like that's. Another thing I always say is you can't complain about the things you choose to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like nobody's making you do anything, so it's so easy to quit, Like you can just stop at any moment and nobody's nobody's really going to care if you quit, but you will care. And like the mental fortitude you get coming out the other side of those moments even some for an IROX, because it's a different like system that you're challenging, Cause it's like that's like every second. You're like you're hoping to quit because it's just max out for an hour and you're like like any of those tough things where you really get pushed to your limit and come out the other side, you feel like you're a better person and a better athlete for sure afterwards and that's such a good feeling.
Speaker 1:When? Um which one are you doing the 100 mile area?
Speaker 2:So it's called the grasslands trail 100. It's like right outside Dallas and it's. March 16th, I think.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, yeah, that's so fun man I'll be in.
Speaker 2:I'll be in Houston cause I'm doing the IROX.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the 16th.
Speaker 2:Well, dude, just fucking take off the Dallas afterwards and meet me at the finish line.
Speaker 1:I'll pay she for a little bit.
Speaker 2:Hey, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's so fun. Have you ever done one before? Yeah?
Speaker 2:Most I've ever ran was 26.5.
Speaker 1:Okay, Do you think it's going to be hard to make the transition of being okay with going slow because you're fast? Um, like, is that going to be hard of? Like it's okay to do nine, 10 minute miles longer than that.
Speaker 2:I think I'll be okay with it. Like, obviously it's going to test your patience a little bit, but you got to just have that mindset where you're doing like 10, 10 mile easy runs almost, or you're just like and kind of like it's like that's what I do on the treadmills, or like all right, if I'm doing 10 miles, I just have to do, you know, half mile, 20 times you know, and you kind of just do that math and just do the same thing with the ultra. That's my plan at least.
Speaker 1:Yeah, take it like in little chunks rather than.
Speaker 2:Little chunks, and that's kind of like my outlook on fitness and life in general is like you may have this huge, massive goal right here and you're here. All these little, tiny goals along the way are just as important, so you just got to hit each one and then by the end you're already at that big goal that you didn't think was in reach or extremely tough to try and get to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I love that. Thanks for saying that Again. Notice, we'll wrap up here soon, but I notice you have a whoop on. I need to get on mine.
Speaker 1:See, I felt silly wearing both of mine and maybe I should just like rock it. But do you utilize your whoop in like, because I love whoop, I love like Kristen Holmes, I love the whoop podcast, like big whoop fan. Do you utilize the recovery and are you you can tell us here? Are you in the green a lot or are you in the red and yellow?
Speaker 2:I'm in the red and yellow a lot, but I'm getting better.
Speaker 2:Okay. So now I don't, I don't listen to it, but I use it and I'm like okay. So, like you know, if I am at the firehouse and I sleep two hours and I'm supposed to do like, I kind of structure my my workout schedule kind of around that so that my hardest days are my days in between the firehouse. But anyway, if, like, I have no problem with chain like my weekly goals as far as workouts and volume are going to be hit, now, what I do each day, I'll switch if I have to. If I'm like, if this thing says I'm at 3% recovery and it feels like I'm at 3% recovery, I'll do my easy miles that day.
Speaker 2:Or you know a nice like uh Metcon where it's more of like a long duration zone to work, it's not like zone five, like max effort thing. I feel like that's the best way to use it. Cause if you just every time something's in the red and you're saying, all right, I guess I got to take a rest day, or your recovery hours in your garment, or saying you gotta do these rests, like you gotta rest for two days, I feel like you're kind of letting yourself off the hook and I'm not like rest is important, but you can still do.
Speaker 2:You know your zone two miles where you could do recovery bike ride, or you could do a swim and end up better on the other side, end up more recovered, end up feeling better, at least. Um. So I'll use it as a gauge and it just what I might have to do that day. But the weekly work is going to get done because that's all part of like the plan. I have, like I do eight to 12 week blocks for everything. It's all like planned out, and I actually tell my clients to like don't get so caught up in like what you have to do each day. The weekly work is what's most important, in my opinion. Um, because life happens. People have kids, people have jobs, people have bad days, people have good days. Um, as long as that weekly volume is done and yeah, you have bad weeks too Then it's just like all right. Well, as long as the monthly volume was done, you're in a good space. Um, so I try not to like over, like uh, complicate things on a daily basis.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that and, um, I like whenever I wore my, it would sew. It was like, oh, I'm in the red today, and then it would just it kind of does let you off the hook. So it's good just to use it as objective data and just kind of look at it that way. Um, okay, how many miles are you? Just a few quick questions.
Speaker 2:Rapid fire Uh, how many miles are you running weekly right now for your, well, I, so I have it on my board right here it's going up each week, um, but like my peak mileage will be, uh, like three weeks of like 90 to 110, but I'm not there yet, like, that's like going to be like my peak work because I'm I also do so much cross training, like I'm getting so much extra volume from different things. You know, an older runner might say you have to run 150 miles for your peak, or you have to do this for like, or somebody might say a hundred miles is too much, yada, yada, yada. I mean whatever, but right now, this week I'll be at 75 to 80. I have to, I forget exactly, but 75 to 80 for this week, um, seven weeks out on Saturday, okay, Is that a lot of zone two running?
Speaker 1:Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:More than I usually do. Um, but I still do, uh, one track work out at least and I'm not sure I work out at least and intervals at least one day per week. It I'd say I have like an eight day rotation, so it kind of like I don't go by days a week, I go by eight days because I work at the Firehouse schedule where I work a 24 hour shift and I'm off for three days. So it just makes more sense for me to go on an eight day split than seven days.
Speaker 1:Okay, and my life easier, got it with shoot and it just slipped my mind. I can't remember. Now what is your running pace for your zone 2?
Speaker 2:Uh, seven, 45 to eight, 15 usually, and I try to keep it under 140.
Speaker 1:Okay, Did you? Have you always been fast or did you work your way up?
Speaker 2:I wouldn't say I've always been fast. I would say I started off at a really high point in fitness in general, just cause, like I would like consistent strength, can't training consistent like functional fitness work and even bodybuilding, like you have to do the stairmaster, the incline treadmill for hour, hour and a half. So like the biggest adjustment was just getting used to the pounding on your legs, especially cause of all the squat and leg volume. I do, but it came pretty quickly. Um, I did not. It was not a runner, as a kid Always looked like I was a refrigerator, um, and probably still look a little bit like that, but I'm a little bit faster.
Speaker 1:Did he make a post other day, like talking about your running form or something?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, See, I I'm a huge believer in take your work and your goals seriously, but don't take yourself seriously. Yeah, um, so I'm the first one to make fun of myself and my deficiencies, and I feel like that's how it all should be. If you can kind of embrace those things, then you're going to be better off and more confident in other areas, like when it's time to actually do a competition or race. You're going to feel confident with yourself because you know what your weaknesses are. You know, uh, your flaws and whatnot, and you can have a laugh at them. Yeah, my running form is not good.
Speaker 1:Cause I think we posted something about it the other day and I'm like oh well, dang, I watch your videos and I'm like okay, let me try to run like Ken, because he knows me.
Speaker 2:I'm like I'm like I'm trying to copy. I'm very, uh, arm oriented. But yeah, my one buddy said he's like you're not a good runner, you just will your body to go fast. I'm like, okay, I can live with that, that's my song.
Speaker 1:Okay. Last question, wrapping up, what would you okay One? I will link all of your stuff in the description and if people want to work with you one on one and your 12 week jack of all trades jokes training program, awesome, I'll link that. Um, what would you give us some motivation? Give us some like what would you tell people listening? Just to kind of wrap it up.
Speaker 2:I would say, um, number one all fitness is good fitness Right. So, like you don't have like to make significant progress, you don't have to be training 30 hours a week. You can be trained at five hours a week. Walking is just as good as running, for the. You know some person, some people, um, we're all on our own journeys and it's just our job to make the most of them, depending on our goals. Um, whether you just kind of want to get in shape for your kids, that you can play with them, throw them around, you want to be a high end level athlete, you want to crush some sort of race goal, those are all equal, in my opinion, as far as value, and they're all just five reasons. It's up to you to put in the work to make those things happen. Um, kind of rambling here and um no, that was perfect.
Speaker 1:I like that because I think it's easy to see people on Instagram and on social media, just like you, and you know someone's some random dad that really doesn't train sees your Instagram. Maybe he's like oh, like, I can't do that. I'm not doing enough, like you just said, even if you can yeah? So just do what you can and know that we all start somewhere and use you as a motivation of, like Jack can do it, I can do it too.
Speaker 2:And one more thing is that I am not a genetic freak, genetic anomaly very average person. Um, I grew up as a chubby kid, then became a skinny kid. Um, and fitness, like we said in the beginning of the podcast, is so amazing Because it really is a work and get results kind of thing, like you can see that almost immediately. Um, how much you put in is how much you get out. Whether you want to be a better runner, a better strength athlete, et cetera, et cetera. Um, we all have a lot of things we can accomplish if we put in the time and work.
Speaker 1:I love it. We'll wrap it up there. That was perfect, Um everyone. Thanks for listening and be sure to let us know if you enjoyed this episode, Please.
