Daddy Discipleship: Nightly Family Worship | James Nelson

Christian parenting is inherently missional. Rather than limiting ministry, parenting can provide a springboard for evangelism and discipleship within the home–both inside and outside our families. Far from being sidelined from ministry, parents who approach parenting with a missional mindset will find explosive opportunities to declare the glory of God. 

In this episode I'll be talking to James all about how dads can easily engage with kids through nightly family worship. We will cover: 

• Why is it specifically important for the dad to lead in discipleship within the home.
• How moms can encourage dads to lead in  discipleship.
• Various opportunities a busy dad might have throughout the day to disciple his children.
• How long or short it has to be. 
• Why leading nightly is important. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Hello and welcome back to Delighted Motherhood, a podcast devoted to delighting ourselves in the Lord and in the calling that He has given to us. I'm your host, Kira Nelson, and it is such a joy to be with you today on the program as we apply biblical principles to everyday motherhood. Thanks for joining me. Well, hello and welcome back to the Delighted Motherhood Podcast. Thank you for joining me tonight to talk about motherhood and parenting and our kids and how we can delight ourselves in the Lord and also in the calling that He's given to us. So one of the things that I'm really passionate about is ministry. I love and have loved from just probably some of my earliest memories talking about Jesus and seeing people grow in their faith and come to faith. I think for most Christians, discipleship and evangelism is pretty exciting and pretty just delightful. It's so so cool to see. And I think sometimes we can get the view that when we are parents, we have to find a way to do that outside of what we're doing in our homes. And that can be very true also. But I think it's helpful for us to remember that parenting is itself inherently missional. And rather than parenting in any way limiting ministry, parenting actually can provide a springboard for evangelism and discipleship within our homes, both within our families and then actually outside of our families as well. And far from being sidelined for ministry, I think that parents who approach parenting with this missional mindset can find really explosive opportunities to declare the glory of God. And this can happen in so many different ways. And I think that's one of the things that's really encouraging is knowing that there's not one particular thing that parents have to do at a particular time. We have a lot of freedom in how we can go about engaging in the Great Commission inside our homes and outside our homes. But tonight I wanted to talk to my all-time favorite guest, James Nelson, my husband, about daddy discipleship and kind of how a dad can lead in his home. And specifically, I'm hoping to talk to James about this quite a bit and kind of look at various different ways that James does this. But I wanted to talk about nightly family worship. And we covered this about two and a half years ago, also, but it's been a minute and I wanted to revisit the topic. So first, James, thank you for being here. Welcome to the program.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

So, James, as I ask every guest, can you tell us a little bit about your parenting context?

SPEAKER_00 2:55

My parenting context is exactly the same as yours. Oh, wow. Because we have the same four children and fifth on the way.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Very soon to be fifth.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Very exciting. Um, but I am a dad to boys for now. And I work as a lawyer in a big law firm in DC and get to raise kids together with you, which is a joy.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

It is such a joy. So James is uh he has a really great job. We're really, really thankful for it. One of the things I've been really encouraged by in our marriage is when we were newly married and James was at law school, I had a lot of people tell me that I was never gonna see my husband and he was gonna be super, super busy all the time. And James is super, super busy a lot. But I I've just been so thankful for how the Lord has given you really, really so many ways to be very present in our home. And I think family worship is one of those examples. So, James, my first question for you is just why do you think it's specifically important? Uh, obviously, I think we can all, we're all in agreement that parents should be discipling their children and that kids are a very important part of the mission field. I kind of like what I was saying at the beginning of the program. But specifically, why do you think it's important for a dad to lead in discipleship within the home?

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Well, I think, you know, the Bible sets out a pattern of um husbands and fathers leading their families in different ways, including, you know, most importantly spiritually. And I think that leadership, especially for kids, um, involves the dad teaching them and training them in the ways of the Lord and to learn about the Bible and to learn how to love God. Um, and so you know, there's lots of examples throughout scripture. I think one that stands out to me is in Ephesians uh six, where right after it gives the command to children to obey their parents, it then gives a command directly to fathers. It says, Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. So this idea that fathers have a primary responsibility of setting the tone in their house and disciplining and instructing their children in the Lord, um, the fear and admonition of the Lord. Um, yeah, showing them who God is, um, opening the Bible and instructing them on what God has done and what God has done for them. And I love this, you know, the way this begins is do not provoke your children to anger. And I think one way to provoke children to anger is to be overbearing or unduly harsh or you know, even abusive. But the another way to provoke children to anger, I think, in the context of this verse is being passive or withdrawn or not really taking an active role in disciplining them and instructing them in the ways of God. And so I think that's a specific call that's given to fathers, um, laying out that that pattern throughout scripture. But if you go all the way back to Deuteronomy 6, you see instructions to be teaching your kids about the ways of the Lord throughout the day, in the house, outside the house, wherever you go, morning, night. Um, and then all throughout the Psalms and other parts of the Old Testament, there's just constant instructions to teach the works of God and the wonders of God and the things that God has done to your children so that the next generation will know about those things and can yet receive them and believe them for themselves. And so this is one of the most important things, obviously, that parents can do for their kids. But I think the pattern of scripture, we see fathers um taking the lead.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Okay, so what would you say to a mom, though, who she loves that? She thinks that sounds wonderful, but her husband feels very passive to her. So, you know, he he maybe he even really does love Jesus and leads their family and takes their family to church. But when she said, can you step up in discipleship of our kids? He just kind of he's busy and he doesn't really take the initiative. How would you encourage her?

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Yeah, well, I think a temptation for all men, especially husbands and dads who are very busy and are working outside the home and have a lot of other things on their plate. I think a temptation is to be passive or just to not take initiative on things like this in the family. I know it's a temptation for me, just kind of sometimes can seem like adding something onto an already, you know, overflowing plate of responsibilities and things to do. But um, I do think that there is kind of a mindset shift that needs to happen sometimes. Um I think sometimes that can start with just very small steps to start building new habits and cultures in a family. And so for any dads that are listening, I guess you know, I would encourage just like very small baby steps of starting new habits. I think habits are something that become easier and easier the more that we do them. And then they don't feel like um, you know, extra things on our plates. They just feel like something that we do every day because that's, you know, something that's important to us, and we've made a habit out of it. So one example that we're talking about now is family worship, having a habit of spending some time every day with your family, worshiping God together. I think it can be difficult to start that at first, and there can be a huge kind of not learning clear curve, but just bump to get over as far as you know, initiative. I think, you know, taking those first steps and kind of pushing through and developing a sort of habit in the family can then make it more of a second nature and not a heavy lift. I guess the other thing I would say to to moms who are hoping for more encouragement or engagement and initiative from their husbands, I guess I would say, you know, um, you can only do so much. I would say pray for your husband, pray for them to have a desire to have initiative. I would say have conversations. Um, ask them kind of how they're thinking about um, you know, this role of spiritually leading their children, how how they're thinking about how you and them should be um doing that, how you could do it together. I think, you know, kind of posing it as a question and asking for your husband's input and even like ideas about how you could be doing that better together as a couple, and then offering some of your own ideas and having more of that um humble posture, I think can go a really long way. The other thing, you know, that has been helpful for us and was part of our story, um, and I think we shared about on the podcast two and a half years ago when we chatted was just that, you know, for you, you were hoping for more family worship in our house, and that I was not leading in for the first three years of our marriage. Um, and one thing that was really helpful for to me was just you asking me to read a short book that was called Family Worship by Donald Whitney, which is a really great book. And I think it's 80-something pages and very short, easy to um to read. Um, and there's just examples of different ways um to do family worship and what that might look like. But for me, you know, reading somebody else talking about it and and kind of thinking about it objectively was was almost a better way for me to get excited about the idea myself and then to to step up and start leading in that. There are other examples like how you've wanted me to work out more because you're a runner and I am not a runner. I hate running. So everybody who doesn't like to run, you know, I'm I'm with you there. But uh, you know, Kira, you know, gave me a book uh about uh it's called A Little Theology of Exercise, which is actually a really good book, and it's also very short, but makes some compelling points about how folks should exercise moderately for the sake of themselves and for their families and other people. And I think reading that book and kind of thinking about it actually is what kind of sparked me to want to do some more of that for myself as well. So I think that can kind of be uh a strategy. And you know, the goal is not manipulation or getting your husband to do what you think is best. But I do think, you know, if if you're convicted that you want to be seeing more family discipleship and family worship in your home, I think you can say that to your husband. You can say this is something I've been praying about, and I want to know your thoughts and how we can how we can do this together.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

So help us think through, James, because this is mostly women listening to this program. And help us just think through the difference between nagging and maybe persistence. Because you do hear in the Proverbs a lot about how annoying and horrible a nagging wife is. So none of us want to be a nagging wife, but also sometimes it takes a little while before someone is convinced that they should do something. We also see the parable uh in the New Testament of the persistent widow who continually and continually and continually went back to the judge and then he finally did what she wanted. I I mean, how do you how do you how would you help a wife think about that within her own home? She doesn't want to be nagging and annoying, but also if she says it to her husband once and he just kind of maybe doesn't do anything about it. I think like there could be a temptation towards bitterness or frustration. Like, how would you counsel a woman in that?

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Yeah, I mean, this is obviously a bigger topic that doesn't just relate to family worship. And I think it would depend on what the subject is, like if it's just a purely a preference, um, it might be different than something more like this, where if it's like an actual conviction that your family should be doing something more for the sake of your children and because of um spiritual commands. But I think, you know, both of the examples that you gave from scripture, I think the goal for your husband should not be to like wear him down so that he gives in like the judge does. Like that is one way to get someone do what you want. I don't think that's the goal for your husband. I think the goal, especially we're talking about something like family worship, I think the goal should be, you know, for for him to be able to see from scripture, um, maybe other resources, how important this is and how this is actually a really good thing. And, you know, with busy jobs, things on um our plates as husbands, sometimes if you raise an idea once or twice, it may just not really register. And so I think persistence is important, but I think with a posture of what I was talking about before, of like, you know, let's let's have a conversation and talk about what would be best for our family and like seeking his input. And maybe the thing that you have in mind for what you want to do is very specific. And maybe he, you know, has a different idea for discipling or doing devotions or worship with your family. And I think one way, you know, if there are other ideas or things like that, like really fanning that into flame and really wanting to support that and do what he wants as far as um the initiative that he's taking, I think is a really great way to support and come alongside your husband. Um, another thing I'll say besides, you know, asking him to listen to this podcast or um maybe suggesting re different resources. Another thing is just Christian community. So um, whether it's you know getting together with other couples or other families that do family worship and just doing it with them so that you both can kind of see an example.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

And you can see it's chaotic and that there are babies pulling things off the shelf.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

Yeah, it's chaotic and there are crazy things going on, but also that it's doable and consistent and consistent and doesn't take much time, but can can be very sweet and meaningful. Um, and just giving ideas for like how exactly does this family do it, at what point, you know, is it right after dinner, or what point in the day do they do it, and how how do they go about doing it? I think having that kind of a community um can be really important as well. So there, I think there are different ways to lovingly and humbly kind of bring up concerns and and you know, hopes um for things that would happen more. But I yeah, I think one thing is maybe have a bigger goal of like more discipleship, more training of children, which I think is always good. Um, and there's only so many hours in the day, which is why you know we think that having kind of a habit of doing something consistently every day is so important because it isn't so much of a burden. Um, but yeah, asking him for ideas and trying to think of ways, or maybe even asking him, like, how can I help you to um to do this? Is this a desire of yours? You know, why, why not? Kind of asking questions and then and then going from there.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

I think for me too, something that's helpful just very honestly is I'm a very strong personality, which James is very aware of. But I have, yeah, I love to take charge, I love ideas, I love teaching, I really love teaching. And so I think there can almost be a temptation for me if I feel like you aren't leading in a particular way, to just fill it myself and say, like, I can handle that, I can make it all happen. And the role of a Christian mom is extremely important in the lives of her children. I love just the references in Timothy of how, you know, this young pastor Timothy that Paul is writing to, it was really the influence of his mom and his grandmother that drew him to the faith. And just moms are incredibly influential in their kids' lives and are going to spend probably more time than dads typically with their kids and have just a huge, incredible impact. But I think I've also been very convicted from scripture that the fathers are intended to be the spiritual leaders of their marriages and of their families. And so to recognize that there are some things, and this should not be a discouragement. I think if you're in a marriage where you don't have a Christian husband, or perhaps, you know, you're parenting on your own, the Lord can work in all circumstances. But the model for Christian family is that a husband is lovingly leading his his family as Christ led the church, and that there is going to be a deficit when the father isn't stepping into that. So I think for Christian women, especially if you have a tendency to really be super strong, is to think how how can I really encourage and support my husband's leadership because he can do something specifically unique.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Well, and I the point that you made, I think is important that you know you are spending a lot more time with the kids on a typical day, especially a weekday. Um, and you're spending more time talking about the Bible and things of God and training them, and that's you know, that's great. And we should both be um seeking to train them to learn about the Bible and to learn about God and hopefully to love God and set their hope in God. Um, and you know, what that's gonna look like practically is a lot more time and a lot more of you doing that, which is, I think, one of the reasons why um, for our family, having a nightly um family worship time um that I get to lead is so important because it gives me an opportunity each day to also be um instructing them from the word and also be encouraging them and also just for them to see me worshiping um God and reading the Bible and praying. Um, whereas that that may be the only opportunity, you know, on a work day or something along those lines. Maybe there will be others, but having one touch point every day really gives you know a tent pull for the family culture that um we both need to set as parents. Um and so I think that's you know, you doing it a lot of training, you know, the mom's doing a lot of spiritual training is super important. And I think that is even helpful. It's helping the husband and as he seeks to lead the family inside a culture for you to take on the laboring ore and a lot of that, and then gives him an opportunity to also come in and come alongside.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

So let's talk a little bit about that. So we touched on a lot, oftentimes dads by God's design are providing and caring and serving their families. And sometimes that's gonna look like them working long hours outside the home. So, how can a dad who maybe is working long hours, what are some ways that he might be able to disciple his kids kind of maybe throughout the day? Or then, yeah, just what what ideas do you have for that?

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Yeah, I mean, different circumstances are going to look differently. I mean, I think for a lot of people, there, you know, there will not be opportunities throughout the day on on weekdays. Um, I think there will be more opportunities on weekends than we typically um think about or or care to admit. That, you know, if if I you know work a little bit harder to finish up some work, then I would have maybe more time on on Saturday. Or, you know, if I'm able to finish what I'm doing on Saturday, and then I can you know take all of Sunday off and be able to spend time with the kids in the afternoon.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Um and I think Which is like their favorite. They're like they they look forward to Sunday specifically because Daddy definitely doesn't James pretty much never works on Sundays. And it is really cute how during the week they'll talk about it like, well, I'll play Monopoly with dad on Sunday and I'll do woodworking with dad on Sunday, and they have this whole roster. So I don't know how restful it is for you because you're pretty busy on Sundays.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Yeah, well, and I think it but I think that's a great, that's like a weekly rhythm. We talk about different habits and rhythms, you know, some some are daily, but you know, some are weekly, and you know, one for our family is we try to rest from work on Sunday, and thankfully I'm I'm able to do that. Um, and so you know, that's a great opportunity for me to spend more extended time with the kids. And and you know, a lot of that will just look like playing Monopoly or chess or hanging out or watching football with them or whatever. But I think while doing that, you know, there are opportunities for conversations to ask them questions, for them to ask questions, um, to kind of follow the Deuteronomy six pattern of wherever you go to teach God's commands to our diligently to our children. It says you should talk about them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, when you rise. Um, so God's commandments, they should be bound on our hearts and they should be written on the doorposts of our houses and our gates, but specifically instructed to our children because that, you know, that's how they're going to learn about God's commandments. But um another, another kind of, I think, regular time when I'm able to maybe have conversations that sometimes can you know focus on God, I think is dinner time. You know, we've talked before about the importance of a family dinner time when that's a a possibility. Um, and I really, you know, love that you've made that a priority and you know, some will kind of even push off dinner if I'm running a little bit late. But it's really important for our family to have family dinners together. And that provides an opportunity for everybody to share what happened that day, what was positive about the day, what was hard about the day. And that's an opportunity, you know, if the Lord prompts and if we're being intentional to bring up spiritual conversations or to, you know, say, oh, that's that's like something in the Bible and kind of instruct them about that there. And then I would say that, you know, the biggest one is our daily routine of family worship for, you know, between five and ten minutes every evening before bedtime with the kids. Um, but that gives me an opportunity to like read some scripture with them and then either ask them questions about the passage or try to pull out like a theme or something about that we've learned about Jesus or God and try to make sure that that plants with them. And so I think those are different ways, which take intentionality, um, but also um, you know, the intentionality can become easier and easier if you make it a habit or just something that you do together. Is a family that the kids are going to expect, anyways.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Okay, so let's talk about that though. So family worship, what do you include in that? What does it look like?

SPEAKER_00 22:07

So our family worship typically looks like singing one hymn or worship song and then reading a short passage of scripture. And then, like I said, either, you know, asking some questions about it or just trying to kind of draw out one truth or lesson from that passage.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

See if they even listen. Sometimes we'll ask them something. They'll be like, Pontius Pilate was a great guy. And you're like, no.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

And then, yeah, and then maybe reread the passage and maybe um share some more things. And then and then typically ends with a prayer, which is usually me praying, but sometimes, you know, is all of us praying. But those three elements of, you know, worship through song, reading the Bible in prayer, I think are um great to be able to all do together as a family every day. And again, all of those things could could take, you know, between five and ten minutes in our own.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

I mean, sometimes they are longer. You you do go longer. I think I was feeling it tonight because the almost two-year-old was just into everything, and I'm like so pregnant. It's hard for me to move. James is having these long just gospel discussions with the kids. But I guess I think also just as an encouragement, is I think there's something really sweet about the consistency of it, even if it's difficult and even if it doesn't feel necessarily that spiritual every single time, just the routine of saying this is important to us. And that kind of like I, you know, I'm sure many of us are have helped our kids with some math or some phonics, and they don't get it right away. It takes a long time of talking about Bs and D's and the difference between B's and D's. And it's you do that consistently over and over and over again, and that's how we start to learn. And there is no guarantee in any way, shape, or form that if we are faithful in family worship or in discipling our kids, that they are going to be Christians. But what we have been called to do is simply to teach them or to raise them in the fear and instruction of the Lord. And then it's up to the Lord to save them. But I I just love seeing kind of the consistency of you being able to do this as a way to have that be a part of their lives. But it can start very short. I think oftentimes it is just getting over that first hurdle, which can feel really, really hard of we're gonna start this pattern. So I think I would probably say start, if you have never done it, start with, you know, very short, just even like one verse from a hymn, or what would you what would you say to that, James?

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Yeah, I would, you know, I it doesn't have to be long. I do think that all three of those elements are important and they, you know, they could just happen one after the other. But I think singing together as a family. Um, and yeah, sometimes we will just sing the doxology, which is essentially just one verse um of a hymn or or Johnny or now four-year-old really loves Jesus loves me because he knows all the words, and so we sing that quite a bit. And sometimes that's you know, we will just sing one verse of that. Um, but then sometimes we'll do longer hymns from that we sang at church um that Sunday and things of that nature. So I think, yeah, I think even day-to-day, I think they you know can vary a little bit, but having all three of those elements and doing them all together as a family is important. And you know, on on your note of just like confession time, like I feel like you know, we've had a lot of very squirrely kids recently who, you know, and I I struggle a little bit with sometimes like in the middle of the song, I'm like correcting somebody and having them stand to do some discipling and parenting in the moment. Like in the middle of family worship, which can sometimes be frustrating for me because you know, obviously I would prefer for it to everybody be sitting perfectly and for it to be like this great mountaintop, you know, spiritual moment for everybody, but that is often not what it looks like. Um, but I I agree that having that consistency and doing it every night, and I think even if you know uh a little boy is very squirrely and being crazy, they are still understanding and picking up on things that we're saying. And um, and I think, you know, over time God can use that faithfulness um how he chooses. Um, like you said, there's no guarantee in whether they'll be saved or not, but he does call us to faithfulness in teaching our kids about him. And you see these whole generations in Israel that just completely forgot about the Lord and his law because the parents didn't teach them. Um and you know, it's it's each generation, us as parents, it's our responsibility um to do that. So that I mean Psalm 78, 7 says, so that they will not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments. Um, and so God very often uses parents um as the means uh by which children set their hope on God and and learn to obey his commandments.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

I think there's kind maybe an encouragement too for Christian parents just to know that the Lord designed kids. He knows that kids are squirrely and that he encourages parents to teach their children when they are about their normal life. And so that's gonna mean when people are crazy. I mean, even with dinner times, I I found dinner times to be such a sweet time too, where sometimes the kids will ask you some really cool, deep questions about, I don't know, all sorts of different things. But then one other child is like throwing meat across the table or whatever. But that the Lord knows all of that things, and that's like when we're supposed to be instructing them is in those moments. And just to be wary of the temptation of idolizing a different form of ministry. Because I think, you know, the idea of going to coffee with an adult for 45 minutes and doing discipleship in that way might sound way more fun and way more appealing to us than discipling our kids. And I think we should be carving out times for that kind of ministry. Also, I think getting a babysitter to come to your house so you can go meet one-on-one with somebody is a wonderful use of both time and money. I think we should definitely be trying to figure out how to have that be a part of our life too. But just to recognize that when you're teaching someone the word and it's in the midst of chaos, that that is what God has called you to, and that is the mission field. Okay, so then James, evenings just in general in our house are really precious. So for reference, oftentimes when you're working in the office, so you work from home two days a week. So sometimes we'll start kind of our nighttime routine closer to 6 or 6:30 on the days that you're working from home. But days that you work in the office, usually we don't start dinner until like 6:45 or 7 as you're coming back from the office. But they're very precious in our house. So we have a meal together. Um, then we do family worship, and then we usually do some kind of family stories. So can we just touch a little bit briefly on the family stories? That's not the point of this, but yeah, I read to the kids constantly, all the time. We read lots and lots of books, but it's been really sweet. I think we've been doing it for about four years now that we've been reading together as a family, everybody, um, one or one book at a time. And I would love to hear just a little bit from you how why you think this is a suite rhythm, how long this part takes in your day, and then how these shared stories have aided in your discipleship of the kids as well.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

Yeah, so I think you know, we we will typically have a book that we're reading through as a family together, like a chapter book, but kid friendly. We did a few of the Hardy Boys.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Oh man, they want to do 56 of them. We put the kibosh on that.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

I think we did three, and now the oldest is just reading the rest for himself, which is great. Um, but we've done, you know, the Wingfeather saga, we've read The Hobbit, we read all the Chronicles of Narnia.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

We read Treasure Island, which we wouldn't necessarily recommend.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Treasure Island is very rough. Um but there's sweet classics like Railway Children and others, and then just like some fun ones like Peter Pan and other books like that. But I think it's a it's a nice uh family connection time when we're able to do it. And I think for you know, for stories, you know, we don't quite do that every single day. Our hope is to do it every day, but obviously it's not as important to us as family worship. Um, but as you know, it's a it's a normal part of our evening routine. And I think it's helped, you know, just me to spend more time and have more shared experiences with the kids every day. Um so it's not just dinner and family worship, but there's also like um a fun book that we're reading together and we're all experiencing it together and learning about what's happening at the at the same time. And I get to read it and they get to hear my voice um more, which is I think just good for um connection. Um, like you said, you you are instructing and reading to them um quite a bit all throughout the day, which is amazing. Um, so kind of uh mixing that up for the kids is good too. But then yeah, I think you know, some of these books, maybe more than others, but like can lead to conversations. Um, you know, obviously, like a book like The Lion, the Witch in the Wardrobe from C.S. Lewis. I don't know if everybody listening has read that, but you know, there's a lot of great allegories to Jesus and his sacrifice for us, which kind of obviously leads to clear um gospel conversations with the kids. But other books can as well, you know, if if a kid does something that's mean or rebellious um or sinful, but does it, you know, maybe they thought it was the right thing to do, you're kind of talking through that with the kids about why we should do some things and not others, and what how that reflects the character of God when somebody lies or steals about how like God is a God of truth and honesty, and um, that's why we don't do it, not just because of the bad consequences. So I think a really good story, um, really good fiction can kind of raise important truths that you know the kids can just pick up on intuitively or can lead to nice uh family conversations. So it's just another way, I think, to set a family culture of spending time together. Um, and again, it doesn't have to be that long. A lot of, especially kid chapter books like that. You know, the chapter may only take 10 minutes, and then you can decide whether you want to do two or three chapters or whether you only have time for one and um just another sweet connection point.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Yeah, but this it has been really sweet though. There was a book that we was, it's very, very popular. All the kids in co-op had read, like everybody, all their friends had read it, and it's a it was a fun book. But one of the lead characters was continually uh very prideful, doing things that was he was just running into them headlong and was always breaking the rules. And he's considered the hero. And it was actually, I thought really sweet. I feel like our family had a whole, whole, very holistic discussion about uh this character and then whether or not, even though he's the hero of the story, what he did was that right? What it was it wrong if this character was in a scenario with another character, what what should he have done if he was following after God? And I thought that was really great, actually, as like a parenting moment. And then it was, but it was also not just one that just I had. It was one that you were speaking into and you had better leadership on. Because I was like, oh, I don't know, the kid's probably fine. You're like, no, it's not fine. So I thought that was great too.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

Yeah. And I mean, it's just another opportunity to have a shared experience where we can, you know, and it doesn't take a whole lot of forethought or like um planning. Even like, you know, I was talking about how we read the Bible during family worship. Like, I am often not reading the passage or thinking about what I'm gonna say beforehand. It's just as we're reading it together, you know, just kind of having your eyes open to what is God saying here. And I think it's the same thing if you're watching a movie or reading a book or doing something else, like what, you know, what are some lessons that we can learn from this about who God is, how who we are, how we relate to him, um, and how you know the kids can grow um in their knowledge and hopefully fear and following him.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

Well, thank you so much, James, for taking some time to chat with us tonight about family worship and thank you for being just such a great daddy. Will you pray for uh the moms that are listening and then any dads that might be encouraged by this program as well?

SPEAKER_00 34:07

I will. Dear Heavenly Father, we thank you for just the families that are represented by those who are listening to this podcast. I thank you for the husbands and wives. I thank you for um the children. Yeah, even in hard or broken situations, I thank you that you are near to the brokenhearted and that you help um all of us to follow you. We do pray for um the moms and dads that may be listening. I pray that you would give us all a conviction of the importance of discipling our kids, of um training them um to love you and to know your word. But you also give us a conviction of the importance of worshiping together as a family, um, that it's not just about imparting knowledge about you, but it's um ultimately about worshiping you and bringing you glory for the wonderful things you've done, um, including sending Jesus to die for us and to die for our kids so they might believe in you and follow you. So I pray that yeah you would give sweet times of singing worship songs together, of reading the Bible together, of praying together. Um I pray that you would help families that aren't doing it to um start a habit or a practice of doing that um regularly, whatever that might look like in their family. Pray for those of us who are trying to do that faithfully. I pray that you would give us renewed strength, um, that you would help us not to grow weary and doing good, but that you would help us to um yeah, follow you all the more and see um how important it is for us to intentionally train our kids um to know you and to put their hope in you because um there is no other um hope for us um in this world. So we thank you for the opportunity that you give us, but you give us this the strength and the um yeah, just the grace to rely on you um as we seek to faithfully raise our kids. Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

Amen. Well, thank you so much, James.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

And until next time, sisters, may we delight ourselves in the Lord as we delight in the calling that He is giving to us.