WEBVTT 00:00:00.640 --> 00:00:08.320 Welcome back to the after sermon where we get to sit down with the communicator from the weekend and dive into their sermon a little bit more. 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:09.439 Tommy Cummins. 00:00:09.599 --> 00:00:09.759 Hey. 00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:11.119 Absolutely. 00:00:11.199 --> 00:00:11.759 Thanks for having me. 00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:12.960 Yeah, it's amazing. 00:00:13.119 --> 00:00:17.120 You literally walked up the stairs, sat down directly from a sermon. 00:00:17.199 --> 00:00:18.960 So we appreciate you making the time. 00:00:19.199 --> 00:00:20.000 Most definitely. 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:20.559 All right. 00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:26.719 So give us a little bit of a uh overview, if you will, of your sermon. 00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:29.280 We kicked off a new series in Ephesians today. 00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:31.440 So uh give us the lowdown. 00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:32.000 Yeah. 00:00:32.320 --> 00:00:53.840 So I think really a lot of it is centered around this NT right quote that I shared right at the very beginning, which is that the vocation of the church is to work as the small working model of new creation, that we ought to be like a model, pointing others towards the real thing, like and inspiring others towards like, okay, hold on, this isn't quite it fully yet. 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:56.799 You know, Jesus is not returned to reign as king yet. 00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:26.000 And yet, with the way that we are living, the way that we're operating as a church, it's close enough that it gets people excited of like, oh man, the way that I would look at a model car and and have an admiration and excitement about the real thing, that we would be the same thing there, and that we would live the kind of life that we would live as if we are citizens of the kingdom of heaven in the here and now, in a way that the community around us, the world around us, would look at us and say, Man, if that's just a small glimpse of it, I gotta know more. 00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:27.599 I want to know more about that. 00:01:27.760 --> 00:01:42.799 And ultimately just looking at Paul's words through Ephesians chapter one, reminding us that if we keep our eyes focused on the realities, that that we have been chosen by God, that we have been called for a purpose, we've been adopted into his family. 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:50.159 That means that we are free, we get to live out of the freedom of the coming reality in the here and now, that we have been marked by his spirit. 00:01:50.239 --> 00:01:55.359 And so ultimately that means that we are sent to be his hands and feet, to take him with us everywhere we go. 00:01:55.760 --> 00:02:04.640 So that part where you were talking about like the model, there's it makes me think of like models as a kid, like there's like all these imperfections. 00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:05.200 Yeah. 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:19.919 Is that why um you kind of laid it out like it's almost like these four reminders, like things we must like understand because there are all of these imperfections, it is a working model. 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:24.000 Um, why was it important for you to kind of like give us that outline? 00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:34.159 I think when we can keep our eyes on these realities, and this is what Paul is telling us, is these are the realities of heaven that are already true of you in the here and now. 00:02:34.479 --> 00:02:55.599 When we can keep our eyes on those realities of heaven, it actually gives us courage to continue on and continuing to live that because I think there's so often where we we get to these points in our lives, at least I have, I think hopefully others would be able to identify with this as well, that we get to these points where we're like, I don't know, maybe, maybe I'm not. 00:02:55.840 --> 00:03:00.479 Maybe, maybe, like, sure, maybe God loves everybody else, but man, I I just keep messing up. 00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:05.599 I keep I keep making these mistakes in a way that's like maybe God doesn't love me the way that he loves others. 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:08.560 And Paul's very clearly like, no, stop that. 00:03:08.879 --> 00:03:10.080 You are loved, right? 00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:14.159 You're chosen, you have already been adopted into the family. 00:03:14.319 --> 00:03:23.280 Like, I think for someone who has adopted kids into their family, I'm sure in many instances, depending on that child's background, it's it's kind of hard. 00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:25.599 It changes the family dynamics a little bit. 00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:27.919 And yet they're not gonna give up on that kid. 00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:33.039 They're like, no, they are part of our family now, they get to be part of the inheritance now. 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:36.080 And and that is true of us as followers of Jesus. 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:39.039 And and again, because of that, it means we are free. 00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:42.000 So we don't have to live as slaves to sin anymore. 00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:50.400 We don't have to live in bondage to the shame that so much of the world tends to heap on us, or I think because they themselves are experiencing it. 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:51.919 Sure, you need to experience it too. 00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:53.199 Redirected shame. 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:53.439 Right. 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:54.960 You don't you don't get to be free from this. 00:03:55.120 --> 00:03:56.000 I'm gonna experience it. 00:03:56.319 --> 00:03:56.400 Yeah. 00:03:56.560 --> 00:04:04.240 And so it's like if we can keep reminding ourselves of these realities, and then again, it's not even our power at work in us, it's the power of the Holy Spirit at work that really marks us. 00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:14.879 And so it's not about our effort, we have to put our effort in, yeah, but it's the multiplied effort of the Holy Spirit at work in our lives, and and and because of that, it's like, no, we're on mission, we're here for a purpose. 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:21.279 We cannot forget that when we keep our eyes on these particular realities, all of a sudden it's like, oh, that's actually possible. 00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:22.639 I can do these things. 00:04:22.879 --> 00:04:30.079 Whereas if it's like I know the end goal is to live as that small working model of new creation, but golly, that this that seems like a lot. 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:32.319 It seems impossible almost. 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:39.360 But it's like, no, just keep your eyes on these realities and and the Holy Spirit at work in you will actually help these things to come to fruition. 00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:46.079 It does my heart good knowing that like this letter was written to the early church. 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:51.519 So like people have been struggling with these core identity things for many, many years. 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:52.000 Yeah. 00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:53.759 What else did you learn about this? 00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:58.079 I like the the function of this letter to the early church. 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:10.240 Yeah, I'm excited as we continue on throughout the rest of this series that some of Paul's letters come across as like, all right, guys, it's time to buck up, like you're getting some things wrong here. 00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:15.519 And yet in Ephesians is such an encouraging letter of like, hey, don't forget this is who you are. 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:17.439 We're gonna see in chapter two. 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:21.120 He starts talking about, hey, keep make sure again you keep your eyes on this reality. 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:23.920 Like you used to be dead in your sin, but that's not who you are anymore. 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:25.839 And so keep reminding yourself of that. 00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:32.240 And and it kind of spends the rest of the time fleshing out, well, what does it look like to actually live as that working model of new creation? 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:38.959 How do we live as if heaven is a reality that is trying to break into this reality in the here and now through us? 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:40.160 And how can we do that? 00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:43.279 And and what do we have to kind of keep our eyes on? 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:46.000 What do we have to rearrange in our minds in order to get there? 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:50.800 And and he he comes back to this adoption language again that we'll talk about in three. 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:58.639 And so it's just kind of these these circular reminders throughout the entire thing over and over again of like, hey, I really need you to get this. 00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:01.120 You cannot miss this whole point. 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:23.040 And so I think when you step back and you look at the broader perspective of the entire thing, that he's not only trying to challenge them and by extension us to live like this, to to be used by God to help his kingdom to reign right here until it is here as it is in heaven, but he's also encouraging them like you can do this because it's who you are. 00:06:23.120 --> 00:06:25.759 I'm not asking you to become something that you are not. 00:06:25.920 --> 00:06:26.720 Oh, I love that. 00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:31.759 It like when I was a kid, uh, there was for whatever reason, it was like, I really wish I was a tiger. 00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:39.680 I was like, come on, man, like if I could have the stripes of a tiger, like you know, I was a weird kid, but no, I relate. 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:47.120 Um it's like, okay, I was never going to turn into a tiger, and it but that's not the metamorphosis that we're called to make, right? 00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:59.839 It's like he's not calling us to become something that we are not already, he's just asking us to be awakened to these realities that already exist and to let that shape the way that we live in the world around us. 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:03.519 You've mentioned it a few times, this idea of new creation. 00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:11.759 And um is that is that follow language, like in terms of like this journey we've been on as a church? 00:07:11.920 --> 00:07:14.160 Like, how would you connect those two things? 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:17.519 New creation, follow, and even like that idea of rearrangement. 00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:19.199 Yeah, absolutely. 00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:37.600 The so the new creation language itself is this language that NT Wright, this theologian that I quoted, he loves, but it's specifically, you see it throughout the New Testament, but it comes to a head in Revelation 21 when it talks about heaven and earth being made new and being renewed, and um the new heaven and the new earth. 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:48.480 And so this new creation of heaven breaking into the here and now, all things being brought under the authority of Jesus, and heaven and earth being brought together is the language that Paul uses here in Ephesians 1. 00:07:48.639 --> 00:07:54.800 Uh, it this is the vision for like where history is headed and this calling to live that way in the here and now. 00:07:54.959 --> 00:08:07.120 Well, if we're going to live as if heaven is the reality that is coming, and so let's start to live that way in the here and now, that does require a complete rearrangement of our lives around Jesus, around what he said was true. 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:09.759 And so it very much is this follow language. 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:17.360 It's it's the eventuality that we keep our eyes on as a reason to rearrange our lives in the here and now. 00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:25.279 Because again, as I talked about, like this being chosen by God, it's not for the sake of being shined up and put on a shelf and admired by others. 00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:30.319 It's like, no, you are chosen for a mission, for a purpose in the here and now, for a vocation. 00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:31.600 So get to work. 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:40.960 And when we we keep our eyes on that versus like, oh, well, yeah, I can just kind of sit on the roof of my house as Jesus says, it's like I'm just gonna wait and he's gonna come back and everything's gonna be great. 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:43.600 It's like, no, we are completely missing it. 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:46.879 The whole point is that we get to usher that in in the here and now. 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:51.039 Again, it's not our power that does that, it's the power of the Holy Spirit for sure. 00:08:51.200 --> 00:09:16.240 Uh, and yet that is the work that is ours to do, is to follow after our rabbi in such a way that we are covered by his dust, that we are marked by his spirit, that the fruits of these spirits start to show up more and more in our lives because of the way that we rearranged our lives, and that we would live as if our citizenship in heaven matters way more than our citizenship here on earth, or our citizenship, our identity, and anything else. 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:19.679 I said it so many times in my sermon, like that is the entire pie. 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:21.679 Everything else is sliced out of that. 00:09:21.759 --> 00:09:31.440 It's it's Doug's language in follow of like, yeah, it's not us trying to put a little Jesus into the box of our lives, but like, nope, Jesus is the box, and we're gonna put everything of ourselves into that. 00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:33.120 Yeah, no, I love that. 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:40.720 So, okay, so then you say, uh, I love how you worded this, so I wrote it down chosen for the sake of others. 00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:56.799 I think that idea like is kind of where this whole um concept, even the name of the series, Heaven and Earth, like the point is to bring heaven to earth, like we are the plan, if that makes sense. 00:09:57.360 --> 00:10:01.039 And yeah, just to kind of take those four things that you talked about. 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:03.600 What happens if we skip the first three? 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:09.919 And we just go straight to like okay, like I am gonna go do good in the world. 00:10:10.240 --> 00:10:12.000 What happens if we miss the first three? 00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:17.600 Yeah, I think we end up doing it maybe some of the right things, but for the wrong reasons. 00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:25.440 And I think it's why you see people burn out so quickly, because it's like, well, I tried it by my own effort and like it didn't really make that big of a difference. 00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:33.600 But when it's like, no, this is coming out of a core sense of who we are, again, because we are have been chosen for the sake of others. 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:56.399 When we miss that piece of it in particular, I think it's why there is this perception of people in the church of like they they're so hypocritical, they think that that they're better than everyone else, and it becomes this insiders versus outsiders, and and we can get off mission of like, well, I'm chosen, so sucks to suck a little bit, but like I don't have to worry about it myself. 00:10:56.480 --> 00:10:56.639 Yeah. 00:10:57.039 --> 00:11:06.480 Versus no, we are chosen again, not instead of others, but for the sake of others, so that we can help to be used by God to invite others in too. 00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:09.679 As we say at Plum Creek all the time, we are changed lives, changing lives. 00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:17.440 We can't miss that piece of it of if it's not just about our lives changing, but being used to then invite others in and to help them experience that. 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:23.679 When we keep our eyes on those first three things, it's not about just like an end result. 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:26.399 Yeah, it's about building a culture. 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:29.519 Uh, it's the culture of heaven breaking into the here and now. 00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:34.320 It's it's the ultimate reality of where history is headed, breaking into the here and now. 00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:38.159 And again, it's not just like, well, let me just jump to the results that we hope to see. 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:42.879 It's like, no, there, the the process is the what we're supposed to be going through. 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:48.159 Because if we try to jump straight to that, it's like we miss all of the formation piece within us. 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:56.159 And so then all of a sudden, we are we're trying to build something without there being a cultural foundation of like, no, this is just who I am. 00:11:56.480 --> 00:12:01.039 And you see in different places in culture where it's like that can get really, really ugly. 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:08.960 Because then it's not about I want to lovingly invite others in and help them to experience the goodness of the grace of God that I have experienced. 00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:12.240 But it's like, well, I kind of told you and you decided not to take it. 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:14.799 And so I guess again, sucks to suck. 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:16.000 Like I did my part. 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:19.679 It's like, no, we're that's not that's not what it's about. 00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:32.480 It's about again being those hands and feet of Jesus as his body, taking his grace, his love, his peace, his truth everywhere that we go, that that becomes the the foundation for everything that we do. 00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:41.519 And so it continues to give us the energy to just live that way because it's not about trying to um mass produce or manufacture results, right? 00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:45.600 It's just the natural byproduct of living as the children of God that we are. 00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:46.399 Yeah, yeah. 00:12:46.480 --> 00:13:01.440 It almost feels like a posture thing, like a posture difference between like going into a situation, you know, um, like you said, kind of like trying to manufacture something versus like entering it with this the eyes and hands and feet of Christ. 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:03.840 Absolutely awesome. 00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:06.000 All right, well, that's all the time we have. 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:08.879 I do gotta say thank you for mentioning Lord of the Rings in your sermon. 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:10.559 Dude, one nerd to another. 00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:11.360 I appreciate it. 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:12.639 Yeah, all right. 00:13:12.879 --> 00:13:22.960 If you want to watch the entire sermon that this conversation was based on, you can head to our YouTube channel, or if you want to listen to it as a podcast, you can do that as well wherever you get those. 00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:25.039 Until next time, we appreciate you. 00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:25.519 Bye.