The After Sermon /// Can pain become a place we meet God?

Welcome to The After Sermon by Plum Creek Church.

This bite-sized discussion is where we get to sit down with our communicators and ask a few follow up questions connected to the weekend message, unpack it on a deeper level, and explore how it all relates to our journey of following Jesus more fully.

In this episode of The After Sermon, Daniel sits down with Eric to keep talking about the prayer of lament and why it matters for anyone trying to follow Jesus through real pain.

Together, they unpack the difference between simply getting through pain and learning to honestly bring it to God. Eric shares why lament is not wallowing, weakness, or a pointless spiritual exercise, but a structured prayer that helps us address God, name what hurts, ask boldly, and trust him with what we cannot fix on our own.

The conversation also explores why many of us struggle to believe God can handle our frustration, questions, or grief. From Hannah’s story to Psalm 22 to the wilderness imagery of Scripture, Daniel and Eric reflect on how lament gives us a way to be with God in the desert, not just rush toward the promised land. They also talk about what it means to sit with others in their pain without rushing to fix it, explain it, or cover it with spiritual platitudes.

Lament does not pretend everything is resolved. It gives us language for honesty, a path toward healing, and a way to trust that God is present with us in the middle of what still hurts.

This conversation is also available on our YouTube channel along with the full message that this discussion is based on.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@plumcreekchurch

You can learn more about Plum Creek Church by visiting our website as well.

Website: https://plumcreek.church/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the after sermon where we get to sit down with our communicator from the weekend and talk more about the message. Eric Parks, thank you. Thank you. Thanks for being here, buddy. Love being here. Awesome. Okay. Lament. Super light topic. So easy to talk about. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me where you went today.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

I think the message is important for people to sit through because I think um one of the ways in which I start the message is most of us have mechanisms that we use, coping mechanisms to get through life's hard spots, and life is inevitably inevitably filled with really hard spots. Sure. Lament is the actual tool as followers of Jesus that brings us into a place of healing. And so, you know, I think the reason why we don't have lament in our lexicon as Christians is not because it's not Christian. Right. It's because we are American. And those two things um really influence how we see it. Right. I was taught now I there there's more of an emphasis on feelings, uh how do you now and how you feel? Totally. But when I grew up, and I think lots of people grew up this way, knowing your feelings, understanding your pain, no one taught me what to do with that. Like no one taught me how to deal necessarily with life's disappointments. And and if you assume that life is supposed to always be up and to the right, when you have your first down and to the left, you're like, wait, hold on. This is yeah, well, this wasn't supposed to happen. Uh and so part of lament is the recognition that um sin entered the world, so did grief, so did pain. Yeah. And this prayer, which is a very structured prayer, is a way that scripture gives us not only to process, but enter into the healing journey.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Well, and I think something you said right off the bat uh just stuck with me. And we use this phrase so often, I don't think we understand the full weight of it, is we often find ways to get through pain, get through it. Like that's what we're trying to do. We're just trying to get through it. Yeah. And yet lament is almost this sitting in it, not like in a wallowing kind of standpoint, but like in a, oh, okay, I'm in a season right now that I need to pay attention to.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

This is important because I think um if we misunderstand all of this, um here's what Jesus has in mind. He has in mind that you're on a journey to become the fullest sense of who you are. True. That's the journey, right? Formation is us returning back to that person that God thought of when he thought us up. This this is the journey, right? Right. Oftentimes we think lament uh uh one of two things, either, well, it's just a wallowing. Right, or uh maybe it's a pointless exercise. Sure. Right. It's either, well, I'm just you know, I'm a wallower, I'm just gonna stick in or it's pointless, why would I do this? Actually, then the research science on it's pretty interesting. It is a way it through isn't really the right word. If we um if we embrace the hypothesis that in this life you will have trouble, that means everybody has wounds, we all have baggage, we all have stuff.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

If the goal is healing from that stuff, if you really want to heal, lament is part of that process. The research science on it's fascinating because as we begin to learn to identify, which is what lament does, yeah. It allows us to identify our pain, to give, name it, to name it. Um, we actually put ourselves in a healing posture. Just the naming of our pain begins to put us into a healing posture. Um, something happens right in our prefrontal cortex. Um, and God made us this way. And lament is that journey where um we don't just ruminate, we don't just numb, we don't just bury, we don't just cope. We take this pain, we we we address God specifically. It's like, hey God, um that that this thing is this thing stinks. Yeah. And um when we say sit in it, oftentimes people who misunderstand lament, we only we think, oh, well, lament is just bringing it to God and naming and complaining it, and that's where it ends. And that's not where lament ends. The actual structured prayer has two more steps that are very important. Yes, and the third step is where we pray our big prayer. In some ways, petition finds its way into step three, where we we say, God, I it's like Psalm 22 is really beautiful because at the beginning it's my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? It does the first two steps. God, right? I know you're there. I think right now it doesn't feel like it. But it doesn't feel like it. Right. And this is the thing that is really a bummer. But then if you go to verse 19, uh the psalmist then begins to ask, Hey God, would you deliver me? Would you rescue me? Would you come get me? And then it leads to a fourth step, which is um we we trust. And this is to be candid with you, for me, the hardest part is step four. I'm pretty good at addressing God. I'm pretty good at naming the thing that is hurtful to me.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

I mean, you have a feelings wheel tattooed on your bicep. I have a feelings wheel, it's literally on my back.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Uh it's not. It is not, but I do have a feelings pillow, and I have feelings wheels everywhere because part of the journey is just identifying. Yeah. But but then I'm pretty good at asking the Lord for what I need. It is the releasing, it's the last step where we uh the first Peter says we cast, and that the Greek is very forceful.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

But that stood out to me today, too. Yeah, it's like you it's a conscious choice. It's not just a okay, God, like whatever.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

It's a practice of letting, letting go, a practice of, and that's where sometimes I think with lament, that isn't to say you won't return to this. You may return into this cycle over and over again for a long time. So lament when I say cast, it's not a um, hey, I uh I'm just gonna bury it. Right. Um there is uh a a trust mechanism that says, God, I know you you know that you can handle this, and I'm I'm gonna trust that you're gonna take it. That doesn't mean you don't come back to this and and sit with it again and process it again.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

I mean, that's just not well, and I think just because there's a framework, and I love the fact that they're like there's this model of how to lament, it doesn't mean that everything is fixed at the end. And I think like lament is positioned to like absorb that reality.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Yeah, it does it may not be fixed, and so it is a nuanced thing where I think there are some places where people think lament is just sitting in it all the time, and I don't think that's necessarily accurate, um, because the the process leads you through a release, right? Now, will does it resolve? Not necessarily. So will you have to pray this prayer repeatedly? Maybe it's not pretending, it's being real, and it's being real every time that you need to be real with God. But there is something that builds our faith through the prayer of lament that honestly, many of the other prayers that we're learning, I won't say it builds it better, but it builds it differently. Differently, yeah, right? Because it's not the same as petition or thanksgiving, it's not the same as adoration or confession, it is uniquely a position for the troubles that are inevitable in our life.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Well, something I love that you brought up Hannah's story in the Bible because what kind of struck me as you were talking through her story, it was like, oh, this is just another way to have a real conversation with God. And that's all he wants.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

It's it's an honest conversation. I think um naming our pain is not weakness. Um being frustrated with God is not a lack of faith.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Questioning. Well, why do we why do you feel like we struggle believing that God uh can handle it or that God actually wants to hear that?

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Well, that's a great question. Uh, it could be a variety of reasons, um, some bad theology, uh some misunderstanding. Uh I say this all the time. Um, if you are taught uh that you should expect that your life is gonna go up and to the right, and then if you're taught that God is going to make sure your life is up and to the right, when it doesn't go that way, the gap between what you thought was gonna happen and what actually happens is usually sort of like that equals your pain, right? Like however big that gap is. So I knew I didn't like math. No, exactly. Right. If we call it the delta. Um, but I think this is part of the misunderstanding of you know the life of faith, um, the journey with God, the idea that um oh, well, bl blessing is always living in the promised land. It was interesting. Um, my buddy Steve Carter. I don't I don't I don't remember. He was in Israel on a trip and uh he uh got to spend time with uh a rabbi uh there in Israel, and they were talking about just human condition, human heart, and he made a a comment. Uh I may not get the story completely accurate. So, Carter, if you're listening, just uh write it, send your complaints to Daniel. Um, but it was something along these lines like um I I was taught he was talking to him about the promised land, sure, you know, like as a metaphor. Yeah, like the journey toward the promised land. And the rabbi listened to Steve for a minute, and then Steve recalls, he looked at him, he said, You Americans are funny. You think that 80% of your life is meant to be lived in the promised land and that the desert is just this thing to get through. That's not how we believe. We believe 80% of our lives is meant to be lived in the desert. Um, and I thought that is such an interesting way to think about it because if you start to look at this book, you start to see all kinds of correlation with this idea that we are desert people. That part of what the God brings to us, this with God life, this prayer of lament, which recognizes that he's with me even in the desert, it does reflect back to Matthew chapter four, like when Jesus was led to the wilderness by the spirit. Um, and we start to realize, well, maybe maybe this isn't to get through. Maybe all of this that I'm maybe God is going to do uh a bunch of things, but maybe the whole point is just to be with him. Maybe all of this is just like not some like it's just to be with him. And so imagine just being with him when things aren't great. And I I'll say this this is this is like an added tidbit. I did not get to put this in the sermon. Okay. I think one of the greatest challenges isn't what we do with pain, it's what we do with pain of others. One of the things I notice is that um no matter how rushed we are to get through tears and difficult seasons, people around us want us to get through it even faster.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Oh my gosh, yes. I'm uh yes, I'm uncomfortable. This I don't know what to do with this.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Like I you sit with someone who's had a gr who's had a loss, who's uh deeply grieving, and um, there is a temptation, and people do it all the time, to just put some platitudes together and stick them on the well you mentioned you did mention this part where like sometimes we over spiritual or we spiritualize our pain and we slap a bumper sticker on it, or you know, we don't name it, we just say, Oh, this yeah. And and oftentimes when you're in the pain, you don't do it to yourself as much as you do it to others. 100%. And you're like, oh, you know, God's gonna do some. And what someone in the middle of pain often needs is just you to sit with them in it. And isn't that what lament is with God? I I just sit with him in it. Yeah, he sits with me in it. It's such a beautiful picture. So my gosh. Um, anyway, that there that's the part I didn't get to preach, but you should, if you get a chance, listen to the whole message.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

So absolutely. Okay, so Eric just said it. You know the drill. If you want to hear the entire sermon that this discussion was based on, head to our YouTube channel, go to wherever you get your podcast. I'm sure you know where that's at. I don't know where that's at because I use Apple Podcasts. So thanks again for joining us, Eric. Thank you. Appreciate you. We'll see you next time. Bye.