The After Sermon /// Why is unity so much harder than agreement?

Welcome to The After Sermon by Plum Creek Church.

This bite-sized discussion is where we get to sit down with our communicators and ask a few follow up questions connected to the weekend message, unpack it on a deeper level, and explore how it all relates to our journey of following Jesus more fully.

What if Christian unity isn't about thinking the same—but moving in the same direction?

In this episode of The After Sermon, David sits down with Tomy to continue the conversation from Ephesians. 

Together they explore Paul's vision of a diverse family brought together in Christ, what it means to be united without becoming uniform, and why the church is called to be known more for what it's for than what it's against. 

The conversation touches on everything from theological differences to cultural divisions, offering a compelling picture of how followers of Jesus can live as one household built on the foundation of Christ. 

Along the way, Tomy challenges us to imagine what might happen if the church became a visible display of heaven's unity breaking into the world around us.

This conversation is also available on our YouTube channel along with the full sermon that this discussion is based on.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@plumcreekchurch

You can learn more about Plum Creek Church by visiting our website as well.

Website: https://plumcreek.church/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the after sermon where we get to dive deeper into the message from the weekend service. We're here with Tommy Cummins, our lead student pastor. My name is David. I get to be one of our student directors here. So we get to work a lot together. We get to spend a good amount of time together. And I love it. Thank you so much for bringing the word today. That's just such a blessing. It's just a blessing to be here with you right now.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Dude, what a fun thing that we get to do the podcast together. Yeah. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Yes, let's jump in. So towards the end of your sermon, you added on to the start where you said, despite our differences, we are now one household. And then at the end, you added in Christ Jesus or built on the firm foundation of Christ. So how do you think that we can do that well? And how do you think we can live that out practically in our day-to-day lives here on earth?

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Yeah. So I think in our culture, especially, and I talk about this in the sermon, there's so many reasons for us to be upset with each other. There's so many reasons for us to be divided. We can disagree on so many different things. But the point that Paul is making throughout the book of Ephesians is that, like, hey, hold on, Jews and Gentiles, those that used to be hostile towards one another, actually now you are one body, and you're gonna have to learn how to live as one body. And yet this idea of working together as the body of Christ does not mean uniformity, but unity. And um, I think that it's so important that we recognize it's it's actually very possible, it's even healthy, I think, at times for us to disagree on things and to have the discussion. Like I grew up in a denomination, I grew up in the Nazarene denomination. And as I grew up and as I as I worked at some of these different churches, I think one of the things that I didn't even realize was happening until I started working at non-denominational churches is that we never really had these like super rich theological conversations, not because we didn't care about theology, but because we kind of assumed we all agreed on things. And so there's no point in having the discussion really. And then the first time I worked at a non-denominational church with people that had very different theological backgrounds than I grew up with, I think it actually was very enriching for me to be able to say, okay, well, what do I believe on that? And you know, am I still pretty Nazarene on that or am I open on some things? And and I think it was in the discussion that there is some incredible beauty, and we were able to say, like, I don't know if I completely agree on that. But being able to find, well, what are the core things where we're like, hey, if you don't, if we don't agree that Jesus was the son of God, we're not playing the same game here, right? And like, so we can't disagree on that. We have to come together on some of these things. And yet there are also plenty of things where it's like actually, it's in the differences that we get to have this rich discussion that all helps to point us toward Jesus. Yeah. Well, I think even beyond theological assumptions, they're the same as true that we can come together and and we can have strong convictions on different things. We can have different cultural practices from, you know, it's not that we go out into the world as missionaries and we're like, hey, we need you guys to become Americans so that you can follow Jesus. And it's like, that's not how it works, right? But actually, we get to bring the rich cultural diversity, the ethnic diversity, all of these different things, as well as like political diversity or whatever the differences might be, where it's like, oh, that's uncomfortable for me. That's different. I think different on this. But actually, if we just learned to keep our eyes on Jesus again when the father is in the room, it kind of changes the dynamics of how the conversations are had. It actually ends up being incredibly enriching and it helps to expand our perspective on the conversations we're having, on how we're thinking about what does it mean to be the body of Christ in the here and now so that God can move through us.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Yeah, and I really enjoy like the image you talked about with family. Um, it's not always about agreeing, like we're gonna have differences. I come from a big family, we're gonna disagree on things. Yeah, um, we're not gonna be divided on all those things as well. Like, we're gonna come back, we're gonna share a meal, we're gonna love one another well. Yeah, for sure. Um, and as I was sitting there, I was kind of curious uh just to hear more about this. But like, what would you say is the difference between tolerance, acceptance, and then the vision Paul has for what Christian unity really looks like.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Yeah. So again, you start thinking about tolerance is I think it's but you're really putting up with one another at that point. It's like I there's no love there and tolerance. There's no opportunity even to get to this place where, like, no, we are still moving in the same direct direction. We're just kind of putting up with each other as long as we have to, and then we can go our separate ways and do our own thing. And um, and so, yes, we are called to be kind. We are called to speak with kindness, to, to display the fruit of the spirit, to be patient with one another, and yet to go beyond that to where it's like, no, we actually are moving together, working together for the same mission. And again, just like you talked about in that family of like, yeah, I remember what it was like to, I was the small younger brother growing up. All my siblings are at least 10 years older than I am. So I was the surprise of the family, and and I was an annoying little brother. I fulfilled my role really, really well, right? And yet at the end of the day, it's like, but we're still wildly for one another. We're still very loving towards one another. And so it's a matter of of how do we not just coexist, but how can we be on mission together? How can we be encouraging towards one another? How can we get to this place where it's like, yeah, we we can disagree on this particular thing, but it's not a salvation issue. And so I love you deeply and I'm wildly for you, and I want the best for you. And I think when we can start to act in these kinds of ways, where I it's like, okay, yeah, let's have the discussion. It's a it's not, we're not saying let's just act like everything is good and that we don't disagree on anything, but in the end, it's like we stack hands on, yeah, but we are one in Christ. And so it's actually the fact that we bring these different perspectives together, but I'm gonna wildly support you in this, and I'm still gonna love and I'm gonna focus on what unites us more on the than the things that are different. And if I'm just tolerating, it's like I don't care about you. Like I'm angry with you all the time. And and again, that's not really what it looks like in a healthy family, at least. I think that's the hard part is there are people probably that grew up in families where it's like, I don't like talking about the family of God because my family was far from that. It's like, well, what does it look like in a really, really healthy family the way that it's supposed to be? That's what we are aimed at reflecting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

I liked what you were saying, like moving towards a common mission together. It doesn't mean that you have to have all the same like beliefs or same things figured out. Like, are we moving in the same direction together? And I think we come from a culture that is more so like divided. Like, what do we oppose? Like, what are we against for the things that they're uniting on? Why do you think it's so much easier to unite on things that we oppose and around Christ? Um, like as we see in a lot of churches and even in our culture today.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Yeah. Yeah. Brene Brown, uh, she's an author, she's uh she has her doctorate in feelings, some version of that, right? Which is weird that you have like an expert on feelings. I don't know if that's what she does. Um, but she talks about how um it is much quicker and easier to unite on things that you hate. Yeah, right. Like if I just randomly ran into someone that was like, Oh, I hate the Spurs, I'd be like, we should be friends. I don't like the Spurs either. Like, that's great, or whatever the sports team is, right? Yeah. And yet it's the thinnest version of connection, which means it's it's so easily broken too. And so um, when you see you do see this in churches sometimes where it's like we're gonna unite around the things that we are against. Yeah. Well, that's not real human connection, that's just a shared hatred. Well, what if all of a sudden that hatred starts to kind of point towards each other instead? Well, then we're gonna divide and move on, break up again. Exactly. But when we can learn to unite around again, the commonalities of like, no, we're both moving towards Christ, we're both being used by him, we are his body together, it starts to form this much deeper connection. Again, if you think about like even a dating relationship or a marriage, if you were dating someone because you both hated the same thing, well, it's like there's not much to sustain that relationship. But if you start to find someone and develop this relationship that is sustained on all of the commonality and the ways that we're moving in the same direction, it's a much deeper bond there. And so again, it's why Paul uses this kind of family language, it's why he talks about being built as this household of Christ all together. That it's when we can focus on that common mission, what unifies us, we can kind of look past some of the other things. It's like, yeah, but we know we're both moving in that same direction. We both know that we are wildly for one another in the things that really, really matter. Yeah. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

And so over the last couple months, we've talked a lot about what does it look like to practically follow Jesus and rearrange our life around what he says is true? And I believe that includes who we spend our time with, the people that we love. Um, and as you talked about us being part of Christ's family, um, how do you think that um we can like what would our churches look like if we began to be more united? Um, if we began to live more like Christ in that way, to love all of Christ's family, not just the people that we naturally are drawn to. Um and how could we do that sustainably? Uh it's easy to do that like the next week after you talk about it, but how can we do that in the long run?

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Yeah. Well, I think A, the way that we can do it is again to just keep our eyes on Christ. And it is, as Paul talks about at the end of Ephesians 3, it's this internal transformation that's really going to make all of this possible. It's the power of God at work in us that makes this possible. And so the way we sustain it is by just allowing the Holy Spirit to continue to transform us, to when we feel convicted of like, man, I got that one wrong. Well, I gotta actually do something about it, not just feel bad about it and like go and repair the relationship or whatever it might be. But I think if we truly continued to move in this direction, because I think that we see a good percentage of this happening at Plum Creek. Like it's that's awesome to be part of a community where this is valued. But if we were to continue to move in this direction more and more, I think the world around us would continue to be like, my goodness, like there's something special of what's going on there and not just within the walls, but when I interact with people that are plum creakers that are followers of Jesus, that there's just something about wanting to be with them. Where I think in so many instances, because we are so focused on what we are against, people are kind of repelled by Christianity in some ways. And rather than when we can focus on what we're for, which is again being the hands and feet of Jesus, loving, being ambassadors for Christ, people would be like, I want to be part of that in some incredible ways. And and that's what Paul is getting at through all of this is again, this is the display case. This is what it looks like to show people heaven in the here and now. And that's what it means to be on mission as followers of Jesus. It becomes this incredibly beautiful thing as we live it out and as we invite others into it.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Yeah, and it is beautiful when you see that lived out, and not just in our churches, but in the community. Um, hopefully we'll see that a lot in Casseronic as well. So uh thank you guys so much for joining us for the after sermon. Uh, if you guys want to watch the sermon that Tommy gave this weekend, it should be on our YouTube channel. Um, and if you want to watch it on your Spotify or Apple Music, whatever you listen to, uh, that'd be great as well. Uh have a blessed rest of your day.